Wouldn't fighter jets make these things obsolete?
>>150512716
Didn't CG have some contrived reason for why the setting had no real aircraft?
Mecha are a stupid idea, we put up with them because they are cool.
Clearly Jets are ineffective since they don't use them against mechs.
>>150512783
In the manga explained that the knightmare had anti air weaponary.
combine that with the fact that they have 10/10 mobility,
>>150512873
Didn't Britannia design a cool jet, but scrapped it because "Where does the Knightmare Frame go?"
>>150512783
Wasn't it something about some sort of EMP type field or some BS like that
>>150512895
Whoa, that sure explains everything.
Especially the slow as shit flying mechas of R2 somehow making planes obsolete.
Oz the Reflection covers this.
The advent of the transformable Knightmare frame made jets obsolete.
The defining moment being that the Holy Britannian Homeland Air Defense Force, made up mainly of jets, was obliterated by a coup d'etat group using very early transformable type frames.
>>150512895
>In the manga explained that the knightmare had anti air weaponary.
Like a machine gun and a rope?
>>150513127
Which makes literally 0 sense.
R2 really fucked up everything.
>>150513193
Jets were absent in R1 as well, I don't see how this is an R2 problem.
>>150512716
They were pointless cause literally every mech had those harpoons that shot down anything in the sky with persision. R2 had most of them flying as well so they really were the most advanced thing out there making almost all current military equipment obsolete.
>>150512716
Jets? Fucking LAVs would wreck them.
>>150513534
LAVs? Fucking tanks would wreck them.
>>150512824
They're able to pivot and reverse their movement more capably than most other things.
>>150513632
And the ways they do so in your anime and manga would destroy most machinery just attempting said movement in the first place.
It's kinda the same thing as the dumb "Why don't they make planes out of the black box material" argument.
>>150513603
Yet there is no tanks or LAVs because lol mecha.
>>150512716
just BRRRRRRRRRT them into pieces
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvIJvPj_pjE&t=2s
>>150513603
And an infantry man with an rpg or stinger missile could wreck all of the tanks, LAVs, aircraft, and sink any naval ship that gets too close to shore
>>150513890
Mecha? Fucking Anti-Tank guns would wreck them.
>>150514010
Infantry? Fucking machine guns would wreck them.
>>150513971
Not like they'd be shot down easily either.
Beauty can fly with half the critical components missing.
Knightmares are just humanoid tanks that can travel over more difficult terrain and even scale buildings. That's what made the first season kind of unique, the mechas were all on wheels.
>>150513131
>Like a machine gun and a rope?
While the rope thing is just retarded, machine guns are actually quite viable since planes irl are really very delicate, a few holes in the right spots and the plane becomes unmaneuverable. This is why most old-school AA is simply a pair of really big machine guns firing explosive shells, most of the time the shockwaves wrecked the planes up let alone a direct hit.
Only real problem is predicting where to fire since planes are flying fast enough that you need to lead with them to get a solid hit.
>>150514110
>machine guns are actually quite viable since planes irl are really very delicate, a few holes in the right spots and the plane becomes unmaneuverable
See >>150513971
>>150513127
Uh, how is that even possible? Any transformable knightframe wouldn't be anywhere near as fast or agile in the air as an actual jet due to design limitations.
Jets would be able to fly at 10k+ feet and spam missiles at knightframes who cant do shit to fire back.
>>150514110
The rope thing was used to climb buildings.
/k/ has done this to fucking death
Forget attack aircraft, tanks would end most mechs that aren't full CUHRAYYYZEE
>>150512716
Humanoid mechs aren't feasible in the slightest when they come to being weapons. Mechs are just rule of cool.
>it's a mecha make conentional fighting vehicles obsoleted episode
>>150514244
And this is /a/, we haven't done it so we'll do it cause fuck sharing resources and knowledge like grown adults.
>>150513890
There are plenty of tanks in CG you retard, you must not remember the show at all. In fact the very, VERY first scene where C.C. is explaining the setting of the story, it shows nightmares skating around tanks and shooting at them.
>>150514294
An even moderately competent commander would put tanks in defensive positions where they'd have the advantage.
>>150514189
Computers are already on track to make most manned jets obsolete. Agility doesn't mean anything when missiles cannot miss.
>>150514110
There were no plane kills with machine guns or even canons since 90's. Everything since Desert Storm is missiles.
Flying robots with guns would be laughably easy kills.
>>150512716
Because mechfags are so delusional they think humanoid robots could be actual weapons, so they make them stronger than everything else.
>>150512716
I clicked on /a, still in /m. why?
>tfw no combined arms mecha anime
>it's flying mechas can beat missiles episode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMSfg26YSQ
And this thing entered service over 10 years ago.
>>150512716
Probably not, seeing as missile technology isn't really used in CG I'd guess they have some sort of countermeasures, also they would likely be traveling with other support vehicles with SAMs, not to mention some of the fighting is in urban settings where the buildings would make targeting difficult. Then again fighting with mecha in an urban or forest setting would also probably be terrible.
>>150514416
Didn't Argevollen have combined arms?
>>150512716
Which is why there's Macross.
>>150514416
CG was that for the first half of R1. Then flying robots bullcrap ruined everything.
>>150514416
Not with "mecha gotta be the best" mindset.
In Season 1, the Knightmares were merely one facet of Britannian superiority. They were used in "realistic" ways.
In R2, every Knightmare had energy wings and Kallen getting that flight pack as a mid-episode upgrade while she dove off a fucking plane was HOTBLOODED AS FUCK HOLY SHIT KALLEN IS NOW AIRBORN THE CLAW IS RISING IN THE EAST IT TELLS ME TO MELT YOUR FACE
>>150514073
And then Bandai had to fuck it up with generic flying mecha
>>150512716
>bitching about muh realism
>in mecha anime
>in fucking Code Gayass of all things
You have brain damage.
>>150514369
This is a topic that fits on many boards, /a/, /k/, /m/, /co/ /g/ and /sci/, and a few /m/ shows get posted in here anyways
>>150514554
Didn't mean to make you cry.
>>150514073
They were not even tanks. They had light armor and were all about mobility.
Then they went full super robots for no fucking reason other than lack of creativity.
>>150514283
What sharing of resources? Every single fucking thread on this subject is the fucking same on every single fucking board, if anything posted here is new to you then you're a goddamned newfag.
Didn't you learn from that Simpsons episode where Sideshow Bob stole the Wright Flyer? Jets are too fast to deal with ground targets.
>>150514476
You don't put mechs in a show just cause, if they aren't in the fucking forefront of the show they don't have a reason to fucking exist there, they're either physical gods or zeroes.
>>150512716
Are there any anime besides Evangelion where there's a legitimate reason for using a humanoid weapon over conventional warfare besides to look cool?
>>150514679
Full Metal Panic.
>>150512716
Because giant robots are cool
>>150514613
I was joking that we're a bunch of autistic fucks, calm down
>>150514605
You didn't make me cry, you're just making me sigh because this subject isn't even beating a dead horse anymore, the horse is fucking puree at this point, there's nothing new to say on the subject, the only reason to make this thread is because you want to wank your intellectual superiority over noticing that "whoa, mecha aren't realistic and are in fact completely unfeasible in any modern setting, fictional or no", we already fucking know that, you're not telling us anything we haven't heard of already.
>>150514724
This, why can't we have more Pacific Rim scale robos? They even move like they have mass.
>>150514836
Because super robots are for children.
>>150514437
So the special thing is that it can turn? Mechs could shoot it down then.
>>150512716
Jets can't pierce A.T Field.
>>150514952
>implying
>>150514511
Please kill yourself you fucking faggot.
>>150514910
Yeah, because it's so easy to shoot at a small object moving at mach 2+
>>150514788
Didn't read a word of this.
>>150515000
Oh look a cool edgy guy.
KMFs in Geass actually developed from tanks. It came from a project to develop a protected and mobile ejection system for tank crews that could then get out of the danger zone.
And then someone decided to strap weapons to it.
>>150512928
>>150514952
Jet fuel can't melt AT fields
>>150515022
It is.
>>150514910
Not as long as they rely on a human pilot with human reaction times they can't.
A fully automated mech would just be far more expensive than a CIWS system and Trophy systems have their limits so even if they were mounted on the mech it still wouldn't be any more resilient to AGM attacks than a tank with a Trophy system is.
And let's not forget the mighty GAU-8 which would absolutely shred a mech.
>>150513288
mechs were more grounded in reality (relatively at least) in season 1. Jets didnt have a place in the story, but it's not like anything outright stated that they didn't exist until R2's flying knightmares.
This is relevant
Living here in Jersey
Fighting Villains from afar
you gotta find first gear
in your GIANT ROBOT CAR!!
You! DIG Giant Robots
I! Dig Giant Robots
We! Dig Giant Robots
Chicks! Dig Giant Robots
NICE!!
>>150514952
What if you make organic bullets?
>>150514294
tanks are snipers or infantry support.
Knightmares may be more advantageous in urban areas, but that's infantry territory.
>>150515201
A tank would be to slow for an angel, jets cannot carry bullets that big and it's not a good idea having a no moving weapon
>>150514110
But most planes have weaponry that can engage ground targets from beyond machine gun range, that's why there is pretty much no machine gun anti AA now, you have to use big ass missiles with long range.
>>150515383
>jets cannot carry bullets that big
>>150515410
Yeah, but look at the size of each barrel, that ain't doing shit to an angel m8
>>150512716
Mechas never stand the test of logic, the don't have the armor of tanks or the speed of IFV's and have an awful profile to boot. Just turn your brain off during the fight scenes, they'll be much easier to watch.
Why do Japanese even like mecha?
>>150514319
But missiles that dont miss would make nightmares obsolete too, you'd need something with a low profile to counter those, such as a tank or a human.
>>150515518
https://youtu.be/cEek5IvGYKg
>>150515518
It can put out 4,200 of them per minute though in a very small target area.
Doubt even an angel can withstand any amount of concentrated and continuous 30mm fire. Keep in mind the high shell velocity and armor penetrating capabilities of the 30mm shells used.
How well armored are nightmares? From the size of them look like they're only protect against small arms only.
>>150515984
Not very. They're made for mobility over protection.
>>150515834
>>150515967
You need to destroy the core, i don' t think that any of those 2 weapons can pierce that deep, especially against Ramiel or the space ones
>>150512716
Jets could probably beat mech.
But what about mech backed up by anti air weapons? How do you stop that?
The mechs beat ground troops easily, meaning that your jets are largely useless and you may as well have just spent all your resources on mechs, ground vechicles and ships (which is exactly what everyone in geass earth did).
It's a very RPS/gamey way to describe things, but it makes enough sense for a series with magic eye powers, yeah? It's established that it's possible to beat mechs without them (that's what made todo so respected), but when it comes to making the best "bet" in a war, mech is the overall superior choice even if it isn't the end all be all.
>>150516284
What about other sorts of planes like Bombers?
>>150516284
What kind of anti air weapons are you talking about?
>not just flying in a locust swarm of inexpensive drones barely big enough to carry their lone missile
lmao
>>150516341
I don't know. What jets are you talking about? This entire thread are people assuming that an alternate history world has the exact same technology in every way, even though it's explicitly sci-fi in the classic sense (what if we had this one thing that isn't real, sakuradite, and it let us do amazing things)
>>150516309
I'll admit I'm not /k/, but with the speed/radar tech mechs are shown to have in geass couldn't they just escape? This whole thread has been people jacking off over planes that just shoot out tons of bullets super fast.
It's not 100% realistic, but again, science fiction and not science fact. There's scale between star trek and gurren laggan.
Transforming fighter jet > Mecha and Tanks
Because flying is witchcraft and mecha is science
>>150515967
No traditional weapon can really harm any of the larger Angels because of their combination of AT Field + regeneration backed by the core. The AT Field can't be "worn down" by sustained fire, and the only time traditional weapons even come close to damaging them is high yield explosives like the N2 bombs.
Some Angels could MAYBE maybe be killed by launching a barrage of N2 bombs or actual nukes at them, but they went with the Eva project because it caused less collateral damage and was more versatile.
>>150516507
But planes are just tanks with wings.
>>150516936
yeah and I bet you think cars are just carriages without horses
>>150517076
They are, though. Their power is even measured in horses.
>>150514679
UC Gundam
Sort of
>>150514256
Coz a running red robot is much more cost effective and practical than a tank
>>150517660
I guess if someone created a monopoly and fucked around the prices, you could get robots to be cost effective.
>>150515104
>a protected and mobile ejection system for tank crews that could then get out of the danger zone
pffffffft
>>150517681
They should rather fuck around physics
>>150514051
Why bring machine guns when shotguns can do it way classier?
>>150514952
Just give them Eva weaponry.
>>150513193
Whats the problem?
Knightmares can fly (at least the ones that can), have anti air weaponry, have ridiculous mobility, and can pretty well dodge anything a fighter jet could throw at it
It's just the better piece of technology, why argue?
>>150520755
>can fly, have anti air weaponry, have ridiculous mobility, and can pretty well dodge anything
Wow, just like in my Chinese cartoon.
>>150512716
Yes.
>>150516658
They also went with the Eva project because the illuminati need it for their plan
>>150512716
At least Tomino gave a good excuse for why they needed to bother with mecha.
>>150522682
Not really.
>>150520244
Wouldn't that just be a kite? Eva weaponry has to be powered by the city. You can't just expect a tiny jet to carry them.
Wouldn't Mecha work in space once the craft start getting really fast and a mecha flying up and stabbing a plane becomes feasible?
Mechs are pointless in general. The only place where they have the advantage is areas with large amounts of cover and uneven terrain.
Basically they're good for jungle warfare.
VF's would wreck any kind of weaponry desu.
>>150523898
>they're good for jungle warfare.
Not really, Jungles are for guerrilla warfare.
>autists still don't get that mecha are there beause they look cool as fuck and make for really fun action sequences
Why do you even watch anime?
LOL
Discussing mecha vs all via real world things in show where mechs are a story setting, people can run and avoid fire from said mechs, spin in midair, use some rotlfmagic to command people to do things. Maybe we shoudl start discuss on /med how its unrealistic for human to have so long legs and arms, or why big, slow targets like command vehicles or that big piramid with guns arent dealt with long range artilery or air force. Also thing with knights using sword to fight shit instead of mass producing and spamming hadron cannons to kill shit
Is a setting, some kind of fantasy
>>150512716
>totally missing the point of giant mechas.
They are totally unrealistic and would not work but they look as fuck.
>>150523898
Something like a spider mech would be better in that sort of environment.
>>150524381
I'm just surprised nobody has posted that page from Monster.
>A: mecha are unrealistic
>B: but they are!
>A: no they aren't because reasons
>B: (ran out of argument) it's just a cartoon, man!
Every time.
>>150514605
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow, Carry on, carry on.
>>150512716
Maybe if they were bound by the laws of physics. Did you even see how fast/mobile they are?
>>150524457
>A: mecha are unrealistic
>B: we don't care, they look cool
>C: but they are realistic!
[A proceeds to ignore B]
>A: no they aren't because reasons
>C: (ran out of argument) it's just a cartoon, man!
>A: Haha retarded mechafags amirite?
Try harder shitposter-kun.
>>150524844
Wouldn't a jet with the same physics be even more useful? Or this physics can only be applied to mecha foe some reasons?
>>150524912
Is this your first mecha anime? The humanoid frame of mechs allow them and only them to break the laws of physics. This is always the case.
So what's it gonna take for a humanoid mecha to outvalue a jet and or tank?
>>150524968
yamato damashii.
>>150512716
No. How come?
It's highly maneuverable and relatively heavily armored thing that can perform some delicate operations.
I can totally see this type of thing being used for the disaster response and as an infantry support, especially indoors.
The only problem would probably be the production and maintenance cost.
I always liked the Macross mechs. Mech mode, half-plane half-mech mode, and plane mode. Each mode had a clear purpose it was used for consistently, and it actually made sense. (For a mecha sci-fi anime)
>>150525074
>The only problem would probably be finding a 15 year-old natural genius to pilot it
FTFY
>>150524968
jets or tanks that can be operated by humanoid mecha.
>>150525074
>relatively heavily armored
There is no way it can be heavily armored with that size.
All of this discussion is pointless, whenLOYALTY TRUMPS ALL!!!
>>150525137
It depends on which type of weapon would usually be used against it.
I think it's tough enough to withstand most of the handheld guns short of the rocket launcher or M134.
>>150525285
>enough to withstand most of the handheld guns
Yeah, A jeep with .50 cal would destroy them.
>>150512716
jets can't conquer or hold an area unless you have an airstrip under your control in that area. but to take that airfield you can't use jets
they're limited to a support role, unless you're fighting naval battles
>>150514443
Judging on the events of Akito with the Apollo being targeted because it could get into pendragon suggests that their missile tech is way behind real world.
Why are planefags so obsessed with mecha? Is it a crippling inferiority complex?
>>150512716
Forget about jets. How can they even make tanks obsoleted? Even IFVs would destroy them easily.
>>150514315
Isn't that how just about everyone did it though? The japan liberation front, the turks, and Europe are all shown using knightmares, but also tanks in entrenched and defended positions. And then the trumpets of the soundtrack blast out and we see a knightmare doing flips and shit, running around like a coked up figure skater as they blow up every tank without much resistance.
I'm not saying that it makes any logical fucking sense, but that every tank the show gets wrecked without knightmare pilots breaking a sweat.
>>150514110
Do you have any idea of why CIWS work the way they do?
How many CIWS kills on modern fighter jets have there been, ever? Seriously, I don't know. I'm more than willing to wager it's 0.
Do you understand how modern fighter jets deploy their weaponry? Hell, even a shitty attack jet like the A-10 flies well outside of the range of AA guns and can still drop bombs on target with incredible accuracy.
Forget about weapons and other vehicles. Even a stiff talking to would destroy them easily.
>knightmare? lol
>>150520755
>humanoid robots with aerodynamics of a brick can dodge anything a fighter jet could throw at it
Mecha is so fucking retarded.
>>150514910
Modern missiles can pull 50G maneuvers. Prototypes can pull 100G maneuvers.
Human pilots usually die around 13G and turn into jelly at 20G.
This kills mecha
>>150514952
EVA is one of the few cases where mechas make sense in the setting.
And they are not even robots.
>>150516418
Except in reality all those parts wasted on transforming would make it much heavier than a normal fighter.
>>150512716
>>150526637
How is these small SMGs supposed to hurt armored vehicles?
>>150513632
You know that real world physics won't allow mechas to exist,right?
>>150526804
I wouldn't say they couldn't exist at all, they'd just get less and less useful at everything besides looking cool as you increase the size.
And if you're keeping the size small, you might as well go with a design that keeps your profile low, aka a fucking tank.
>>150514679
In UC gundam they were mobile workers used to construct colonies before being adopted for battle because they are very mobile in space.
In fact Tomino originally planned the whole battles to take place in space because he knows mobile suits are impractical on ground but you know kids show.
ITT: /a/ tries to come to terms with the fact that anime has retarded physics, but fucks it up and falsely assumes that it's just /m/ with retarded physics.
>>150526880
>>150525229
Orange did take down a Knight's of the Round, after his mech exploded.
best mech
>>150526997
>>150527040
>>150514416
Didn't Muv Luv have some combined arms between mechas/ bombers/other ground forces?
It's all about suspension of disbelief, really.
There's not really any scenario where, realistically, mechs are going to be more viable than normal vehicular combat and conventional weaponry, discounting maybe manoeuvrability but thats assuming we could even create mechs with good manoeuvrability. So far we can barely make robots that don't fall down.
In CG, the series is already dumb as a box of rocks enough that the mecha thing doesn't seem to out of place. Of course, suspension of disbelief for the sake of mechs works far better in things like Gundam or even Pacfic rim, where they focus less on a specific reason and more "Well the other fuckers have them, so we need em." without trying to explain away the need for tanks.Though in Pacific rim it's quite clearly shown that it takes a whole army days to down a Kaiju, whereas Striker can take one down in a short battle with chest rockets. Why aren't those rockets just on a big tank instead? because they look way cooler in a robot's chest.
I kinda just wrote this as an excuse to talk about Pacific Rim. God I love Pacific Rim.
>>150527158
Yeah Muv Luv has tanks and jets and all the other shit, but the excuse is that the tanks aren't fast enough to not get devoured by BETA and fighter planes can't fly low enough to not get shot by lasers, so they use the mechs to mop the laser guys down so they can bomb the rest. It's surprising really how even though the mechas are the main point, they aren't used to kill everyone, the artillery does that..
>>150522722
Well it's an unfair comparison since construction and repair fees of EVA units could bankrupt entire countries. Of course a random military aircraft wouldn't be able to carry the necessary weaponry.
>>150527288
>It's surprising really how even though the mechas are the main point, they aren't used to kill everyone, the artillery does that..
And god bless mubrub for that. Artillery kills. Aircraft are just glorified precision artillery.
>>150512716
Mechs in anime, and specially in Code Geass, are extremely mobile, powerful and resistent.
We don't know how physics in the anime world works so it's impossible to say whether jets are a good counter to mechs or not.
IF we could build mechs as powerful as CG mechs in real life, I'm pretty sure they'd obsolete all the real life jets we have now. And if we implement this CG tech on our jets too, in the best case scenario, we'd just even the ground.
>>150512895
BETA CONFIRMED
>>150527288
Don't they also use the TSF to combat hives, or do they just drop nukes in them once the heavy lasers are cleared? I'm only somewhat familiar with Muvluv.
>>150527765
Yeah TSF are for hive combat, but hive combat is about destroying the nest core. Tanks would be again too slow in nests and fighter planes don't fit inside well so TSF are the only choice. In Muvluv verse, americans used nukes to glass Canada and the hives there so the BETA couldn't get closer to them.
>>150526028
Even the GAU-8 can fire accurately at distances far enough away for accurate return fire to be pretty much impossible.
>>150512716
I'd watch an anime like that
>teenage mech pilots
>confident because their country has best mechs
>invade foreign power after a few episodes showing how 'great' they are
>come up against competent tank commander and air force
>decimated, losing people left and right to superior tactics over superior tech
>>150526880
>40% drills
Are you shitting me?
>>150526880
>Luna from Star Force
fucking Kek
>>150527837
Muv-Luv at least tries to make their mecha situational weapons and not perfect killing machines that can handle any situation.
They quickly get overwhelmed without proper support.
>>150528272
Mecha anime seem to get exponentially more interesting the more the scenario writers try to justify using mecha.
In Muv-Luv case it's still better to use some hi-tech gunships though.
>>150528381
I agree. The more situational mecha are, the better. You end up not able to just shove them into any engagement and having them come out on top because mecha, but having to actually consider the strengths and weaknesses of them compared to what kind of forces they're up against, and it makes for overall far more interesting engagements.
One thing I always hate about anime is that writers and creators seem to think that proper warfare is somehow not interesting. There has to be some kind of magic, or superweapon or whatever involved.
You can make interesting character-driven dramas with a conventional battlefield backdrop, but this concept is apparently far beyond anime writers.
>>150528503
that's because it takes a degree's worth of studying to be familiar enough with conventional warfare of a given era to be able to write a story about it.
If they just flip the table by introducing mechas, it takes 0 time. They just put their own shit in there, use whatever actually fits as the status quo, then use the stuff that don't fit as the "twists" to the story.
Wasn't Suzaku fighting on ''Survive'' the whole time, he clearly wasn't holding back, Kallen won
>>150528552
Even then, you can still write interesting character-driven dramas with it as a backdrop rather than the main focus just being on super special mecha doing super special things.
I dunno about others, but when I think of my favorite mecha, 0080 Stardust Memory comes to mind. Why? Because it's mainly a character-driven drama set to the backdrop of UC Gundam. The amount of actual mecha action was toned down, and the final battle was a no bullshit, brutal brawl.
Mechs will always be superior because they are fictional and you can make them do whatever the fuck you want and come up with whatever excuse you want to explain it, this isn't up for debate, it never is and never will be.
>>150516658
They dropped ALL OF THE N2s on the first one and it slowed it down for a day, nukes are not the answer.
>>150515984
You don't need armor if you get hit, then there's Lancelot's Mordred's, Shinkiro's and Gurren's barriers.
>>150528659
What about fictional tanks and jets?
>>150528654
If you decide you're writing a character driven show, you're forbidden from using military stuff as a plot twist at any point. In that case, it's alright if you don't have a good handle on how it works, as long as you never use it as a plot point.
>>150524219
So they can wank over how smart they are.
>>150524381
This whole thread is autism incarnate.
>>150524457
No, half the thread is people telling you that yes, we know that they're unrealistic, but we don't really care because fiction is fiction.
>>150525822
No jet or tank anime but a lot of mecha anime where mechs take on a military role essentially replacing planes and tanks, basically they feel marginalized and need to lash out.
>>150528813
fiction is fiction but not all stories are good stories.
If you create a setting that just doesn't hold up, it would crumble the instant you pressed 'GO', then you make that crumbling the focus of your story, that's a bad story.
>>150528712
Sure they are, you just need an eva to neutralize the AT field.
Keep the eva at arms length, kill the field, and bomb the shit out of it.
Fuck you could mass produce N2 bombs attach a half grown eva with some idiots soul stuck inside and do the same thing.
Regardless the eva was about becoming tang not fighting angles so who cares about tactics
>>150526880
Mito and her mom are fucking werewolves, they've long since left humanity behind, Mito's hair is like 50%~ of her body mass too.
>>150528654
Bruh, I'm here for the robots, not some deep thought provoking drama, good writing is not what I'm here for nor do I bother looking for it.
>>150528912
>Keep the eva at arms length, kill the field, and bomb the shit out of it.
Do it, faggot.
>>150528891
Holy shit you must be literally autistic
>>150526997
I always wondered, can I watch Mellowlink without having watched Votoms?
>>150528764
I think it's still important to have a proper grasp of conventional warfare. If you make the drama about soldiers, you have to understand the life of a soldier. Do you think Generation Kill would work if they skipped all the details on operating procedures, rules of engagement and convoluted military red tape?
>>150528891
>I have autism
(You)
>>150528912
No, you couldn't, dropping all of the fucking N2 mines slowed down the weakest of them for a fucking day, and good fucking luck keeping shit like Ramiel at arms length without dying horribly in the process.
>>150529093
You can have both. You can use the mecha in interesting ways that actually make some amount of sense and still have cool fights with them.
>>150529619
Nah, mecha inherently don't make sense, if you try and do that autists like you will still rip them to shreds for not being realistic enough so it's better to not even try, fuck trying to satisfy autistic cunts that nitpick over every detail.
>>150529254
Why don't you simply watch both.
>>150528404
laughing laser class
>>150529735
So you're saying it's okay to put minimal effort and thought into a series as long as the mecha are cool?
>>150529847
>AH-64 Apache
>height 15.24 ft (4.64 m)
>TSFs
>height 18 m
>>150528912
>Keep the eva at arms length, kill the field, and bomb the shit out of it.
That's... exactly what they do. Have you watched Evangelion? They use Eva-sized artillery in close range combat to negate the AT Field. But children of Adam negate each other's AT Fields, so when they use close range explosives--like 00 using the NT mine on Zeruel--the Eva also gets fucked up in the process but doesn't have the regenerative capabilities to withstand it.
>>150529867
So you're saying that fantasy is inherently shit unless their "magic" and dragons are explained by science?Yes it's all good as long as it's cool and enjyable, no need to get autistic.
>>150529867
Bingo.
>>150529905
You've never read muvluv have you?
>>150529847
The TSFs slash up the laser class and then they fly in gunships to fuck up the rest of the ground units.
Come to think of it, why didn't they just make reflective jets?
>>150529938
I'm saying that you need consistent rules within the universe itself. A complete fantasy universe is fine, but you still need to make a consistent ruleset that defines the laws of said universe.
>>150530059
You can have a story in a setting that's not consistent, as long as the story doesn't challenge those inconsistencies. If the story is allowed to happen only because of the inconsistencies, then that's bad.
>>150529984
but i thought you said gunships were better? if they were, then why are you relying on TSFs?
>>150530059
>Gundams are made from materials that we don't have and they use engines that use laws of science we don't have
>Somehow this is not okay but fantasy saying "lol magic" is
I just can't understand you autists.
>>150529984
Mirrors do not reflect 100% of light.
Yeah but its not like they can survive an earthquake.
>>150529962
TSF are the worst part of it. If they can make 18m tall humanoid robots fly why not make something like this instead?
>>150530134
Did I ever fucking once complain about Gundams you fucking autist?
I explicitly used 0080 Stardust Memory as a prime example of what I think mecha should be
>>150530199
Do we ever see jetplanes in code geass flying around?
I think we only saw helicopter gunships.
>>150530230
But as it sounds to me, you don't actually even like mecha, you just want character drama. Why even watch a genre thats main point is big robots that wouldn't ever work in real life and most of the times aren't explained by anything more than "lol it's robots" if you don't actually want to see robots?
>>150513971
Obligatory
>>150530166
Oh god its a 40k one. You guys can't think of anything else but your shitty as setting where almost everything is explained with "it's warp."Also because hammerheads don't have burst speed that would be needed to evade charging BETA, and neither can they easily manouver behind a one by flying over them.And since we're going this route the Tau have pretty much TSF's themselves with the XV-8 suits, they work pretty much the same way.
>>150530373
No, I love mecha, but I want mecha to be down to earth and very "militarized"
I want them to be part of a bigger war machine. I want them to not be the sole ultimate weapon on the battlefield, but just like any other weapon a situational asset that is only effective in certain situations.
>>150530230
Mecha anime is not about mecha.
Mecha in mecha anime are there so it fucking sells, because mecha autists will eat any shit as long as it has giant robots and you can have the protagonists act in a heroic role in a war setting.
Mecha anime in general is not about war or robots fighting, it's about offering a convenient backdrop for character development. It's basically the same as all this space opera thing, it's about a spaceship in a war, but the people on the spaceship.
>>150530166
TSFs don't fly. They're rocket-propelled ground units designed to destroy the anti-aircraft BETA (laser class) so that they can swooce in with bombers.
>>150530508
But that's like saying you love mecha after watching NGE.
Wanting a genre to be only one thing and just like this would make everything boring repeats of themselves. It's not like people who like rap want all rap to be Drake, or people who like videogames would want all videogames to be brownshooters. A true mecha fan loves all mecha, fantasyshit or not, or if he likes just some mecha shows, then he says it like that.
>>150530166
Because mecha fans vastly outnumber 40k babies.
>>150530617
I don't dislike crazy mecha though. I don't dislike the kind of mecha we do have.
But that's been done a million fucking times. I want something that hasn't been done nearly as much, and that is a more realistic take on mecha and the role they could fill on an actual battlefield, even if they're impossibly agile.
The reason I want down to earth, heavily militarized mecha is precisely because it's so damn rare. I'm not saying that's the only mecha that should exist, I'm saying that's what I want the most because that's what I don't have. That's the itch that hasn't been scratched properly yet.
>>150530508
Front Mission.
>>150530166
because it dies to a diceroll?
>>150530597
>TSFs don't fly
They do. They fly all the time like a plane. Just watch Schwarzesmarken or Total eclipse and see how TSF are used.
>>150530508
Just watch Votoms then.
>>150530597
So how are they better than gunships?
>>150530701
I don't remember TSF's flying in the VN, more like doing very long jumps with their packs. I haven't played it to completion yet, but I wonder if they added the flying part later on?
>>150530749
Gunships can'y fly low enough to avoid Laser class.
>>150530749
They stay close to the ground while maintaining higher mobility to avoid getting shot down by laser class.
And before you say "just rain fire on them from beyond their effective range", Heavy laser class have very long effective range, and smaller laser class units shoot down incoming projectiles unless they're fired from close range.
>>150530768
Do you ever play 2142? Gunships can fly lower than a TSF height.
>>150530767
The VN have them jumping around.
Both animes have them flying around like jetplanes on crack. No jumping around.
>>150530824
but are they as fast?
>>150530839
In other words the anime decided to make them super planes? Then I don't really think they should be used as a point on how TSFs act.
>>150530886
With the same technology that make TSFs fly they will be faster and more aerodynamic.
>>150531033
But TSFs don't fly. Read the VN.
>It doesn't matter if it's unrealistic, it's cool!
Every time.
>>150528754
>pilot's vision to both sides is blocked
About as retarded as mechs.
>>150515967
Did you even watch the fucking show?
>>150531216Too many years ago to care.
>>150531119
Indeed, some people do not suffer from autism.
>>150530455
Tau battlesuits are 3m tall. Not 18.
>don't have burst speed
Because retarded mech physics. A hover tank with thrusters would completely shit all over a humanoid mech in agility.
>>150531081
Oh, sorry. With the same technology that make 18 meter tall giant metal men jump and dance around.
>>150531446
>but muh realism
>>150531436
Mecha genre is bullcrap liked by a tiny minority of populace.
Even in japan big robots are dying. The best selling mecha anime in years is about tanks for Christ's sake.
>>150526665
Because they're railguns and have variable loadouts you retard. You see then equipped with weapons their size in the show. They even have sniper railcannons half again their size.
Hell, their guns pack enough punch to lift a tank a foot in the air from the sheer power behind them (one of the fitst episodes).
>>150531482
So you want to make a tank with jump cababilities?
>>150531482
>>150531514
I hope plane and tankfags never get anything good because holy shit you're whiny about fiction not being 1:1 with reality.
>>150531489
>let's have a serious war drama!
>about giant toy robots
>>150528503
Because it's easier to set pacing with mecha.
>>150531547
I see nothing wrong with that unless you have autism and get triggered by giant metal men.
>>150531515
Now now, can you imagine BMPTs with bigger railguns and more loadout?
>>150531514
That has absolutely nothing to do with muh armchair general realism, Pacific Rim was ever bit as unrealistic as your average mecha anime and yet it was a huge hit and you didn't see normies complain about muh realism, hell even CG, the anime you faggots are complaining about so much, was and still is a huge hit. The percentage of people autistic enough to actually care about the war logistics of mecha is even smaller than the percentage of people who like mecha to begin with, at least the way mecha currently is the mech models actually sell unlike boring ass might-as-well-be-a-tank-at-this-point brown & grey muh realistic warfare mechs.
>>150531516
I think I said gunships, not a tank.
>>150530701
Schwarzesmarken could have been so good, but it felt like they should have had double the amount of episodes.
>>150531690
But again, TSF's dont fly. So you want to make a gunship with wheels that can do 50m long jumps? I'm saying wheels because I have a feeling you don't want legs on it.
>>150531515
>>150531656
Or better yet, a railgun Toyota!
>>150531656
They already do that, though? Did you even see what the barrels on their tanks looked like? Because those definitely don't fire regular RL rounds.
>When your show justifies giant robots by saying you need something big enough to carry the engine required to resist your enemies INSTANT GIB attack, and then bulky enough to actually not go down if your enemy then gets a lucky hit
>And they still have fighter jets and conventional weapons doing shit, even if they get wrecked 90% of the time because
>>150513603
All throught the anime the mechs are fucking up tanks. Come back when you've watched the show retard
>>150531770
>TSF's dont fly
So what?
>So you want to make a gunship with wheels that can do 50m long jumps
Why jump? They can fly faster and more mobile than TSFs.
>I'm saying wheels because I have a feeling you don't want legs on it.
I prefer you call it "landing gear"
>>150531801
So why do we need knightmares again?
>>150531119
It's unrealistic in our world but we're not watching shows about our world you autist, why can you suspend your disbelief about America being a monarchy but not about technology?
>>150531892
>TSFs can't fly
>So lets use the technology which doesn't let TSFs fly to make a flying ship
>Which couldn't fly since the same technology doesn't let TSFs fly
This is why people call you an autist.
>>150531943
Because they do everything really well.
>>150512824
/thread
>>150531943
>we
What did you expect from Japan?
They don't know shit about military since they don't have one.
They are still stuck to their WW2 tech.
>>150531682
Pacific Rim was a failure you retard.
And it was even dumber than average mecha anime.
>>150531538
Don't worry they don't. They get Macross which is about singing idols pushing a maladapted moral agenda aped from the anti-war protests of more than 40 years ago, and as for Tanks, they are basically doomed to job to humanoids for the rest of anime history in it's entirety.
Macross is kind of disturbing in general really.
>>150531996
Okay, I'll do it again slowly this time.
How can TSFs "jump"?
>>150524134
What is the point of the intermediate transformation?
What's the point of having the fighter have arms and legs?
>>150532062
>+$400m box office
>failure
>>150513971
that's one of the most terrifying sounds ive ever heard. that's literally such a high frequency of fire it's almost sounding like a sustained note. holy fucking shit.
>0:38
yeah me too dude
>>150531656
Anon how do you feel about Gasaraki?
>>150531943
Because they're cool while your metal boxes on threads are not.
>>150532140
The most terrifying part is you don't hear the actual gun until you've already been blown to pieces.
>>150532146
An anime that downplayed AFVs in order for mecha to shine.
>>150532125
Educate yourself about how box office works.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/about/boxoffice.htm
Studio gets half. Movie had 200 million $ budget + 100 million marketing.
It lost money. That's why sequel got cancelled.
>>150532197
Cool is subjective but I can agree with that.
Now can you agree with me that knightmare are stupid idea even in their own universe?
>>150532300
No, because they've been shown to be more than efficient in-canon and that's the only thing that matters.
>>150512716
All these years later, I still can't help but think Guren's shoulders are stupid.
>>150532208
my god
military technology is so damn powerful it's fucked up
>>150532337
Then I guess we are back to square one.
>>150532289
Alright whatever, doesn't change the fact that plenty unrealistic mecha anime were big hits, and a quick look at what other anime is popular at any given moment will make it obivous that a lack of realism is not the problem behind mecha's lack of popularity. In fact realism has never fucking sold in anime. Tankfags need to remember that for a fucking tank anime to sell they needed to be piloted by little girls. Even in the West, where military shit is always depicted in a more gritty way than in anime, lack of realism is never a problem.
>muh mobility
This is literally the most retarded reason for mechas supposed superiority. No matter how fast they can run they won't outrun modern FCS.
A single APC with a 30mm gun would be enough to slaughter mechas.
Only reason why stupid anime use them is because you can have one guy piloting a machine that can move and fight like a big human. Because it's much easier to make a typical shonen fightan shit than being creative with tanks or planes.
At least series like EVA or FMP had actual reasons why the work in the setting.
>>150532387
I don't have problem with unrealistic mecha. The problem is mechafags that say these mecha are make sense and trying to justify them.
>>150532457
>The problem is mechafags that say these mecha are make sense and trying to justify them.
Because they make sense in the universe of the mecha show you dolt.
>>150532387
See: >>150530726
Mecha is dead outside of Gundam plastic sales.
>>150532448
>Because it's much easier to make a typical shonen fightan shit than being creative with tanks or planes.
The answer is aerial jousting.
>>150532448
>A single APC with a 30mm gun would be enough to slaughter mechas.
proof?
As horrid as the animation was, I found that Argevollen handled mecha fairly well.
Even the main super prototype unit couldn't win wars because it was a single, very expensive unit and maintenance was insanely difficult due to a lack of spare parts and classified technology.
Mecha always operated together with field guns, tanks, infantry, and could easily be taken down by 20mm cannons or handheld anti-tank launchers.
>>150532300
>Super mobile
>Variable loadouts
>versatile (can be an artillery platform, anti-armour, anti-aircfaft, anti-infantry)
>Works anywhere
>disposable
And before you say something, yes, Kinghtmares are considered infantry. It's even in their designation (RPI - Royal Panzer Infanrty)
>>150532494
No they don't, that's why we have this thread.
>>150532590
>Super mobile
In reality their skates would be useless in almost every terrain.
>>150532592
No, we have this thread because you people don't have enough actual problems in your life and need to whine about trivial shit like mecha being unrealistic, god I hope every single one of you gets cancer and dies miserably so you have actual problems to deal with.
>>150512716
They have Jets in code gayass?
>>150532289
>That's why sequel got cancelled.
A sequel is in production right now
The thing about mecha is you have two options
Either you make them coordinate with other units to form a combined front that complement each others weaknesses.
Or you can just be a lazy piece of shit and make them so insanely OP that they can't be touched by anything but other super powerful mecha.
Or if you want to be even lazier, you just completely ignore the roles other units would play on the battlefield and pretend there's only mecha.
>>150532624
which is why got the ability to fly in R2 but you guys bitch about it
>>150532115
>What is the point of the intermediate transformation?
faster than on foot + more agile than the plane
>>150532590
Technicals
>4 bigger wheels, lighter, more mobile
>variable loadouts
>versatile (can be an artillery platform, anti-armour, anti-aircfaft, anti-infantry)
>Works anywhere
>disposable
And cheaper to boot.
>>150532592
We have this thread because /k/ need their weekly break from being internet toughguys and roleplaying guns to come here and shitpost because they're too deranged to suspend disbelief.
>>150532624
That's why they change them when in different environments. IIRC, they equipped some Knightmares with sandpanels to deal with sandy dunes in the Middle East.
>>150532668
I'm happy every time they ignore option one, because it both panders to me and pisses off grognards and seeing them get their panties in a twist gives me immeasurable joy.
>>150532703
Suspension of disbelief isn't a fucking excuse for shitty writing.
>>150532668
So why can't they make a combined arms front using just mechs and infantry?
>>150532758
Why is it shitty writing? Because it doesn't fit with technology in our world? Then you can't suspend disbelief.
>>150532793
If it doesn't make sense even in their own world, it's shit writing.
>>150532842
It doesn't make sense because you read on /k/ that one time that it's unrealistic, okay bud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85PLTXgetiM
Sorry about the shit quality
>>150532793
You have to explain WHY they're so powerful and useful in battle. If a modern jet would be able to take a mecha down easily, then why wouldn't a futuristic super jet be able to do the same thing even easier?
When you make sci-fi mech, you have to fucking consider if a modern weapon would be able to take down the mech or not. If it can, it wouldn't be a viable alternative. It's that simple.
>>150532842
It make sense in-universe because the writer says it does, now you can bitch and moan about that like you've been doing the past day but that won't change shit, I'll still like my stupid giant metal men while you'll stay fanny flustered like the big baby you are.
>>150532966
Because they wanted to write about giant robots, not futuristic super jets, they don't have to consider shit, that's just your autism talking.
>>150527968
This is exactly why Tohdoh in Code Geass was so renouned. He defeated Knightmares with conventional weaponry.
>>150533012
It's called good writing, anon. I know watching anime has made you unfamiliar with this concept, but believe it or not, such a thing exists.
A giant robot needs a REASON to be on the battlefield. I'm not saying they shouldn't be, but the writer needs to put in the fucking effort to at least give a proper reason for why they're there and why they're as useful as they are. If I can think of 10 reasons they wouldn't work, then the writer hasn't put enough thought into his setting and it, guess what, is bad writing.
>>150532974
>because the writer says it does
Unless it's contradicted to commonsense in their own universe.
>no fun allowed autists at it yet again
Did some Zaku shoot a hole in your colony or something? You niggers never learn.
>>150530508
Isn't that Full Metal Panic pretty much? Sosuke gets wrecked by tanks a couple of times and infantry with RPG are a real threat to armslaves.
>>150533091
Nah, my fucks are long since dead, peddle your good writing to someone that still gives a shit. All I want are giant robots, the how or why does not interest me in the slightest. But keep being analpained about fictional, cartoon metal men.
>>150530508
The genre isn't for you then
>>150533106
Nah, the writer doesn't need to justify shit to autistic nitpickers on anonymous imageboards.
>>150530597
>Doesn't watch visuals
They have fucking jet engines and rocket-assisted jump units.
>>150533213
Yeah, I do love FMP a lot.
>>150533227
Like I explained before, it's not that I dislike this kind of mecha, but that doesn't mean I can't crave something different.
Variety is the spice of life, and right now there are way too few things scratching this particular mecha itch.
>>150533258
>hurr shit writing is perfectly justified as long as it pisses off people on imageboards
How does it feel to be an immature autist?
Aren't there any hard sci-fi mecha anime at all?
>>150532966
>why wouldn't a futuristic super jet be able to do the same thing even easier?
The meme mineral that powers them is radioactive, you can't exactly have radioactive material showered over everywhere if it gets shot down.
>>150533307
Great.
>>150533307
Reading the thread, it seems it's the anti-mecha fags that are being autistic.
>>150533091
Yes you need 10 reasons to appease everyone's autism or it's bad, fuck off retard.
>>150529984
>Come to think of it, why didn't they just make reflective jets?
Anon, I...
>>150525404
proofs?
>>150533374
A Knightmare exploding would still spread radioactive particles over a very large area so that doesn't really excuse it.
Plus, who said the planes have to be made of the same radioactive materials? Is that the only material that can be used to make weapons?
>>150533388
>>150533406
So being knowledgeable about things = being autistic now?
Fucking hell has /a/ taken a nosedive since I was last here.
Bringing aircraft into the mix would be a mistake because mechs are a replacement for tanks not aircraft.
Tanks (and mechs) are not only an offensive force, but they're able to hold ground and capture ares as well as present a defense force. Airforce can do offensive runs and waves, and attack copters can even hold ground for a short period of time but have to refuel, airforce can't hold territory which is what tanks are still used for.
As for why they don't just send in fighters and other offensive capabilities to destroy mechs, its because science magic.
One thing I did like about code geass is that other than god mode plot devices, they did actually multiple times use stationary weapons and cannons rather than mechas for certain situations. But can't have the main characters dying to those.
>>150532966
>then why wouldn't a futuristic super jet be able to do the same thing even easier?
They have supersonic VTOLs, mate. it's just never shown on-screen because it affect the story at all.
>>150533571
Then why aren't those ever used as a hard counter to Knightmares?
Feels like the setting is conveniently built around the plot, rather than the plot being built around the setting.
>>150533571
*it doesn't affect
>>150512895
Kinda dumb since planes/jets can fly 50K feet in the air, making it impossible to see/hit/reach.
Not only that, fighter jets will be obsolete soon or on their way out within a few generations due to drone systems.
>>150533624
Because that's exactly what happened there? The whole thing is built like a drama with things existing only for the sake of fostering it.
>>150533478
>A Knightmare exploding would still spread radioactive particles over a very large area so that doesn't really excuse it.
Not really, an explosion in the sky would blast stuff over a way larger area than one on the ground.
>Plus, who said the planes have to be made of the same radioactive materials? Is that the only material that can be used to make weapons?
The reactor that powers it uses the radioactive mineral, you wouldn't have the super vehicle without it.
>>150533516
If you really think you need 10 minutes of exposition to explain every little thing you really shouldn't be talking about writing quality.
>>150533683
>an explosion in the sky
knightmares can fly though
>>150533624
What exactly is going to change in the story if you introduce aircaft? Oh right, nothing!
It's just going to be a waste of time animating and integrating them to the story when you can just tell the same story with mechs.
>>150533737
Nowhere near as high as actual flying vehicles though, they usually just floated around.
>DUDE LMAO THOSE ANIME MECHS ARE SO UNREALISTIC AHEAHEAEHEHE THEY WOULDN'T WORK IN REAL LIFE AT ALL! AEHAAEHAEHAHEAHEHA
>>150533780
They were flying at the same altitude as enemy planes. In R1 lulu actually used his mech to take out the britania airforce using a horizontal beam.
>>150533639
How does having jets that could potentially engage and destroy Knightframes from far outside their effective range not affect the plot?
>>150533680
And that's my problem with it. You write a setting first. You build up the rules and details of it, and then you write the plot around the established rules you've made within the setting.
>>150533739
A lot would change. Any rebel Knightmares caught in the open would easily be dispatched by jets. It's a convenient plot device to make sure they can't just get blown up from 5 km away by an AGM.
>>150533683
But if even a modern jet would be enough to take them down why would they even need super jets in the first place then?
Knightmares can fly, tho.
>>150533825
>And that's my problem with it. You write a setting first. You build up the rules and details of it, and then you write the plot around the established rules you've made within the setting.
No, stop letting your autism do the talking, the writer doesn't have to do any of that.
>>150533825
>You write a setting first. You build up the rules and details of it, and then you write the plot around the established rules you've made within the setting.
Good to have you around so some random anon can set in stone the objetive rules of how to write. Jesus not only are you autists terrible at being armchair generals you're terrible armchair writers too.
>>150533825
The story used knightmares as a plot device, X being an ace fighter pilot rather than an ace knightmare pilot really doesn't change that much.
>>150533905
I'm not saying everything should be shifted to jets instead, I'm saying jets should still be considered part of the equation when writing engagements between opposing forces.
>>150533825
Why do you keep replying?
Mechafags will eat shit as long as it has giant robots fighting each other.
It's all pointless.
>>150533823
Oh right, I haven't watched in a while so I can't remember how exactly they worked. Still though, weren't the flight packs pretty rare?
>>150533964
They were
>>150533825
>But if even a modern jet would be enough to take them down why would they even need super jets in the first place then?
A modern jet wouldn't be able to take them down, the mechs have super techno scanners and weapons, a modern jet wouldn't stand a chance.
>>150533954
Because I'm bored out of my mind and it's kinda interesting to see how deluded people can get.
>>150534005
>A modern jet wouldn't be able to take them down, the mechs have super techno scanners and weapons
And why can't they put those things on a jet?
That way you have higher mobility and the same weaponry and tech.
>>150534005
Have we seen proof of a single defensive measure that would neutralize AGMs?
A CIWS system or even a fucking advanced Trophy system? Armor that can withstand AGMs? Even fucking shield generators that stop them dead in their tracks?
No, we haven't. A jet would be able to fire an AGM from far outside a Knightmare's effective range and no amount of mobility actually showcased in the show would break the lock.
>>150533964
In R1 they were, R2 had them fairly common place though though not average soldier ware either.
>>150534055
Not him, but the point there is MODERN jet.
A future jet could, but if you took a jet from today and put it there it would get rekt.
>>150534108
But then why do future jets not do that then?
>>150534005
Stop, you're falling for their bait and arguing on their homeground, that's how they get you. Do not respond to them because every argument you could have is faulty.
>>150534129
Because nobody wants to watch a fucking show about jets jesus why is this discussion still going?
>>150534055
>And why can't they put those things on a jet?
>modern jet
>>150534129
Because the reactor uses radioactive material, if a super jet got shot down it'd blast radioactive stuff everywhere.
>>150534129
You're missing the point, anon said modern jet, and other anon said modern jet would get btfo.
Of course future jets would have it. But the writer wanted mechs so we got mechs instead.
Why do people use swords when guns clearly work fine?
>>150534205
No one is saying the focus has to be on the jets. I just want them to be considered as a viable threat in the equation. Battles would be far more interesting if they were limited by the fact that jets could easily destroy them if they make a wrong move. It'd add another layer of tension to the whole series and make the engagements overall more interesting.
>>150534232
>it'd blast radioactive stuff everyone
we've already addressed this though, nightmares are being given float devices that fly at the same altitude as planes. This is irrelevant.
And clearly noone cares about radioactivity because noone is wearing protective suits in zones with lots of broken knightmares.
>>150534005
>and weapons
Such as?
>>150534068
No we haven't because we haven't seen them deal with a jet, that doesn't mean they can't.
>>150534237
But the point of why a modern AGM wouldn't be able to take down a Knightmare from beyond its effective range still hasn't been addressed.
WHY would a modern jet get BTFO?
>>150534328
Because the writer says so.
>>150534318
And that's where bad writing comes in. Nowhere in the series is it even considered that jets could be a viable threat nor explained why they seemingly aren't. At least show a quick scene of an AGM being neutralized by a Trophy system and then shot down in return and boom, you have your fucking reason right there.
>>150534268
no one gives a fuck about what you want
>>150534405
Any source on that?
>>150534405
If the writer can't give a reason for why, then it's bad writing.
>>150515122
Suzaku has higher than human reaction times though as he reacts to bullet fire even outside of a mech.
>>150534427
No one cares about jets which is why jets aren't relevant, CG is a show made by Sunrise and they deal in plastic men made in the image of fictional metal men, jets aren't relevant because they are not part of Sunrise's product line.
>>150534271
>we've already addressed this though, nightmares are being given float devices that fly at the same altitude as planes. This is irrelevant.
Those are rare as you guys just said, if they were as common as the grunt mechs it'd be an agricultural disaster.
>And clearly noone cares about radioactivity because noone is wearing protective suits in zones with lots of broken knightmares.
Not everything radioactive is instantly kill you tier.
>>150534427
The airships and large land vehicles have CIWS.
There was also a scene where they shot down cruise missiles, but no clue on AGMs.
>>150534485
So the entire show is a badly written mess only made to sell plastic toys, gotcha.
>>150534278
Watch the show?
>>150534504
>not instantly kill you tier
so they just don't care all their soldiers and nobility is going to die a few years later have have mutated children?
>>150534505
And that's cool. That's very cool. Then why not show an IFV with a CIWS system rolling alongside a Knightmare platoon covering them from potential air attacks.
It doesn't have to even actually be used. Just by being there people can make a logical deduction that it's there to protect from aircraft.
>>150534467
>>150534427
The writer hasn't confirmed that you can't fuck a knightmare and make it pregnant to get knightmare babies, that doesn't mean it's bad writing you absolute retard.
>>150534525
>it's bad because they won't pander to my plane fetish
off yourself
>>150534525
Yes, a glorified toy commercial is a glorified toy commercial, good of you to realize that.
>>150534536
I don't see any weapons that could BTFO a jet at high altitude.
>>150534504
>Not everything radioactive is instantly kill you tier.
Yeah because no one cares about getting cancer.
>>150534585
No, I'm fine with that. But people are still trying to justify it with other reasons for whatever fucking reason, and that's where the problem comes in.
>>150534561
Unless they decide to wear the radioactive stuff as jewellery they'll be fine.
>>150533825
a modern jet wouldn't take them down though. stop being autistic.
>>150534616
That is the worst excuse I've ever heard. You might be literally retarded.
>>150534604
Even the machine guns could BTFO a jet probably since they're future tech guided by future tech sensors.
>>150534639
>a modern jet wouldn't take them down though
And why is that?
>>150532792
Argevollen did that.
>>150534612
No one is trying to justify shit besides /k/ autists that can't handle giant metal men blowing the fuck out of their metal boxes on threads.
>>150530839
Why doesn't that one muvluv pilot think to turn forcing the laser to spread its damage?
>>150534676
Argevollen also had tanks, field guns and cannon emplacements.
>>150534655
Bananas are radioactive but I'm pretty sure I'm not dying of banana induced cancer.
>>150534703
No, I have no problem with them blowing the fuck out of tanks and jets, but I need a proper reason for why they can do that.
>>150534963
I'm Finnish so I need a proper reason for the mechs not getting BTFO'd by Genghis Khan, if I don't get one the writer is shit.
>>150532701
With this, I hope we can all agree that technicals > knightmare
>>150535011
How is that a fucking argument when he's already fucking dead?
>>150535011
Genghis Khan doesn't have any AT weapons.
>>150535081
Not him, but if you don't explain that he's already dead then it's shit writing.
>>150535081
How is your argument an argument when planes are already dead?
>>150534664
knightmares have specs/scanners that would identify a modern jet prior, the manuverability to escape and energy shields(at least the good ones) that could defend against such fire.
Perhaps a future jet could but i don't see in a 1 on 1 a modern jet taking out the Lancelot or Guren. I believe they could survive until the jet ran out of ammunition, at which point the mech could just continue on with its buisness on the ground.
A future jet might but future jets arn't invented in the verse so i'm not questioning it. OP's post was regarding monder fighter jets though so using future jets as an argument in this post is moot.
>>150535119
>>150535126
>mechafags trying to argue
Embarassing.
>>150535128
I can accept that.
>>150534860
There was a lot to like about Argevollen on a conceptual level.
>>150535159
>got nothing
>>150535237
It was a very good concept executed badly. Hell, the plot wasn't even that bad, it was just that the animation was horrid.
>>150534892
if its not radioactive enough to be a problem then it doesn't matter if it gets showered from a jet.
>>150535159
autist fag has no counter
>>150535460
It's radioactive enough to not kill you with short term exposure but if it gets into agricultural land or even water then you'll be fucked.
>>150535616
>Bananas are radioactive but I'm pretty sure I'm not dying of banana induced cancer.
So why did they use knightmare again when future tanks could and would do better jobs?
>>150531515
>Because they're railguns
Bullshit, those are mere autocanons.
>>150535782
I brought that up to point out there's varying degrees of radioactivity dingus.
>>150535616
Pretty sure Sakuradite isn't radioactive. the energy density is disgusting tho
>>150536011
Almost all of their gun are railguns or coilguns of some sort. That's why their pistols have fucking batteries on them and they sound so different.
>>150517660
knightmare frames don''t run though senpai nice bait watch the show
It's described in one of the Britannia Mecha Chronicles.
>>150536312
Whoops, meant for
>>150536011
>>150536160
I'm 99% sure it's radioactive, I haven't watched/read anything Code Geass related in a while though.
>>150536439
It's never mentioned to be.
>tried to watch akito
>that disgusting CG animation
>that water addicted lelouch
>that hamfisted ending
>suddenly time powers
aside from the laughable spinzaku moment
everything was shit
>>150536460
Just checked the wiki, it is.
>>150536583
huh. I guess I was mistaken, then
>>150536439
Noone wears special suits when handling it.
Noone really seems to care.
Knightmares are destroyed left and right without anyone giving it a second though.
If they're radioactive its so minute it doesn't matter, no more so than bananas.
>>150536011
Then they shouldn't be able to penetrate tank armor.
>>150534661
Clearly you dont know how machine guns are not the primary weapon to deal with jets.
In the future it will still not be the primary weapon but lasers will be. If no lasers then missiles will still be the primary way to deal with enemy jets unless you got your own jets.
>>150514416
there are
>>150536626
What makes you say that?
>>150536758
Too small
>>150536785
Even 20mm autocannons can penetrate tanks, from behind. It's a different matter from the front though.
>>150536809
Who said they were 20mm?
>>150536835
Because that's the smallest caliber possible if a weapon is to be classified as an "autocannon".
Any smaller and it's a machine gun or rifle.
>>150536856
Ah, I misunderstood what you were saying. Nevermind.
>>150536809
>Even 20mm autocannons can penetrate tanks, from behind
No it can't, even thin armor cold war MBT like Leopard 1 are immune to 20mm autocannons.
>>150536943
From the rear, yes it could.
>>150537033
>On 25 July 1957, the detailed specifications were released;
>the new design needed to weigh no more than 30 metric tons, have a power-to-weight ratio of 30 horsepower per ton,
>be able to withstand hits by 20 mm rapid-fire guns on every side
>>150537182
Keep in mind, that was 1957 20mm autocannons.
Modern autocannons with APFSDS shells could easily penetrate it.
*Clack*
WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>>150536943
The leopard 1 got so thin armor that 20mm autocannons were a threat to it.
Soviet 23mm autocannons and even 14.5mm heavy machine guns have a chance to penetrate it from the side or rear at a decent range from it. Do you know why it has so thin armor? Because the germans considered homogenous armor to be overrated in the age of HEAT and decided to keep it as low as possible to the point that they were extremely exposed if the got flanked so they could get that extra mobility.
>>150537182
Clearly they did not follow the specifications to the letter since the leopard 1 is more then 30 tons in weight and it's sides and rear are pitfully weak compared to other tanks like the patton series or the T-54/55.
30mm RHA is not gona stop that much at 0 degrees angle.
>>150537208
And modern armor could easily stop 20mm APFSDS rounds
>>150537435
True, but go up to 30mm and the rear becomes vulnerable. If the engine takes even one solid hit then you're out of the action.
>>150537531
>True, but go up to 30mm and the rear becomes vulnerable
Source?
I think throw-stick weapons ruined warfare. I say we should have mechs yes, they are the coolest, and I'll say more: mechs and beat sticks only.
Technology nowadays take aways the personality of war, close-ranged mechs marry both the coolness of tech with the hot bloodness of personal combat. Anything else is for faggots and cowards.
>>150512716
>anything irl
>making these spinkicking machines obsolete
Do you not have anything better to discuss?
>>150537556
Look up the actual penetration values for the guns and munitions used.
Most modern 30mm APFSDS muntions can penetrate 100+ mm of rear armor.
Even the GAU-8 can penetrate 60+ mm of rear armor from the air.
This might not take out a Challenger 2, but most tanks would still be vulnerable from the rear.
>>150537697
Again, source?
>>150537726
Various instruction manuals I found, including the A-10 manual on killing Warsaw Pact tanks.
>>150537750
Post it then. The burden of prove is on you since you make the claim that modern MBTs can be disable with 30mm.
>>150531216
>>150515967
He clearly missed that the A.T. fields prevent the angels from being harmed by normal means.
Probably also forgot that they pretty much nuked one and it had no effect.
>>150533665
as a computer engineer i doubt that
sure, maybe we'll see AI piloted commercial airlines but a combat AI is a different story
i'm expecting some form of hybrid solution, where human pilots has a "steward" AI like Jarvis in Iron Man. The reason i believe this is because of human-computer chess games have turned out in recent years.
Human VS Computer(ex. deep blue) = Computer wins
Computer VS Computer with better algorithms = Computer with better algorithms wins
Computer with better algorithms VS Computer that suggest strats and a human who makes the decisions = Human and computer wins
also we should not overlook the fact that Moore's law has hit its limit and will after 2025, if not sooner, no longer accurately predict the pace of miniaturization of computer components. Unless strides are made within computing technology that allows for smaller or more efficient components, AI will be limited by hardware. Ergo = AI pilot will have to be larger than a human pilot to be equally intelligent.
this is just my humble opinion thou. I've done no research in the field.
>Why didn't jets make mecha obsolete
Why didn't jets make tanks obsolete?
>>150537941
they did
more accurately - missiles did
>>150538013
>MBT's don't exist and aren't widely used in todays wars
Well ok then
>>150538063
Tanks do a great job against poorly armed sandniggers in Urban areas.
>>150538013
No, tanks have their own niche in the battlefield. They can do thing that jets can't do.
I hope the new Full Metal Panic! and Code Geass are done in full hand-drawn glory.I know my hopes and dreams will be crushed, but still
>>150538158
The CG is better in everyway.
>>150538063
thats a logical fallacy. just because they're widely used doesn't mean they're the best option
>>150538108
they do but they're expensive to replace if they run over an IED
>>150538123
if tanks were removed the gap would easily be filled by lighter vehicles and air force
>>150538354
>that's a logical fallacy.
"I am smarter then the combined military officers of the entire world" - Anon
>>150538354
>lighter vehicles
Can't taking a hit
>air force
can't take and holding ground.
Tanks still have things to do, at worst they'll be replace by unmanned tanks.
>>150538239
Only if you are an animation company executive
>>150513603
But tanks are beaten by helicopters.
>>150538473
that's another logical fallacy
ill let you figure out on your own why that is
>>150538545
>Can't taking a hit
neither can tanks. As i said, any MBT can easily be killed by an IED
its better to lose an humvee than a tank
war is money
>can't take and holding ground.
thats what infantry is for
>Tanks still have things to do, at worst they'll be replace by unmanned tanks
as i said, they can be replaced easily. You can use a tank for many things, but other hardware may do the job just as well and cheaper
and unmanned tanks are a joke because they still need in field service and automating that is very, very hard.
>>150538354
>just because they're widely used doesn't mean they're the best option
nice strawman
>>150538354
>if tanks were removed the gap would easily be filled by lighter vehicles and air force
No it wont, lighter vehicles cant survive or fight as hard as main battle tanks and the air force cant fly 24/7 to provide fire support when some guys take sniper fire and need something powerful to strike it at the moment they take fire, can also not hold ground.
This is even more noticeable in a conventional conflict where lighter vehicles are simply unable to fill the same roles main battle tanks have because they lack the armor or the firepower to spearhead an assault while the air force have greater problems such as the enemy air force and doing their own task which will be striking far into enemy territory to destroy supply lines or enemy combat groups.
>>150538698
You can kill anything if you got enough explosives, problem is to get enough explosives underground and not have anyone notice you transporting it there and digging it down.
You need far less explosives to kill a humvee then a tank which means less time to transport it and less time to digg it down so less chance for anyone notice you doing it.
>war is money
Yes anon, that is why it is good to have 4 guys drop dead in a humvee because they were in the wrong place and wrong vehicle, get orders to design a mine resistant transport vehicle which will be more expensive then a humvee because it is built to be more tough then a humvee.
>thats what infantry is for
You dont leave infantry with no ground vehicles to provide fire support which they desperatly need since they cant carry 120mm cannons on their back and run around 60km/h.
>>150538698
>neither can tanks
but they can, real combat tanks aren't taken out by IEDs or simple hand held explosives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjva7OXdwJE
tank gives no fucks.
>thats what infantry is for
less effective than a giant armored tank
>can easily by replaced
no it can't, thats why we still spend billions on it.
>>150538945
>>150538987
>muh MBT
you belong in a museum!
>>150539248
Go back to 1973 kiddo
>>150539248
I'm not saying a tank is the best thing for every job, but anyone who acts like they have no purpose clearly has no idea what they're talking about.
>>150512716
Fighter jets don't make infantry obsolete, so no
>>150525096
I hope The next Macross won't have idolshit I just want military aspect
>tanks
Nothing persenel, kid
>>150540012
So basically you don't want a Macross then. Macross without some sort of idol in it is simply not Macross.
>>150535128
you cant out run a missile
sr 71 black birds could but thats about it
you cant draw a comparison. The missles they use can punch through most armour and knightmares the show uses are ase you said focused on maneuverability.
and even with plot armour shields that never run out any knightmare frame not equiped with shield tech would be fucked
and thats a made up tech that could easily be adjusted for.
>>150540105
Like not Delta levels though
>>150512716
No for the same reason long ranged longbowmen didn't make cavalry obsolete.
>>150540291
Delta had roughly the same amount of music people in it as 7. Delta's problem is that they couldn't write for shit.
>>150540308
yhea, coffe didn't make tea obsolete either
neither did meth with coke
>>150539411
>... but anyone who acts like they have no purpose clearly has no idea what they're talking about
Good thing no one did that then
Wouldn't fighter jets make these things obsolete?
>>150540554
>>150540606
stay mad statue cuck
>>150540225
You don't have to outrun a missile to dodge it, especially in urban environments.
Jets just cant compete
>>150540225
The fucking nightmare in OP just cast AE beam pulse and the missiles turn to shit
>>150540924
I really don't get why people say this had bad CG, I really like it.
>>150540225
its not a matter of outrunning a missle its a matter of dodging it with maneuverability or shooting it down midflight.
many people arn't mention Suzaku's feat against the Raikou in the hotel sequence
http://codegeass.wikia.com/wiki/Raikou
And he was able to dodge this railgun while approaching in a tiny ass tunnel that was kilometers away. And this was when he was using one of the older models of the Lancelot.
I know Suzaku is an an exception but it proves that it CAN be done in a Nightmare not that its easy.
Tell me who a missle compares to the speed of the Raikou?
i also don't think a missile can punch through plot armor shields. it would have to wait till the shields run out.
And this is why the Valkyrie are superior.
>>150540991
Who is saying it's bad
It's fantastic. Everyone knows that for armor and mechs CG is way better.
>>150541132
>>150536481
I see a lot of people call it ugly or bad.
>>150541152
Retards who prefer to see static images sliding around or people traumatized from CG abominations like berserk.
>>150537869
https://www.nammo.com/globalassets/pdfs/ammobook/nammo_produktkatalog_2014_web.pdf
https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-systems/armament-systems/25mm/docs/25mm_Fact_Sheet.pdf