So explain to me how exactly he didn't do anything wrong?

Like Hitler he was just fighting for a brighter future for his people.

>>150453478
While the idea that he "did nothing wrong" isn't really arguable, SSY did a very good job of justifying and showing his actions as necessary.
Humanity saw queer rats as nothing other than slave labour and had wiped out queer rat colonies for far lesser transgressions in the past, there was no option for negotiations since queer rats had no bargaining chips or leverage. Humanity was also superior to queer rats in almost every way, with a single adult being able to wipe out a good portion of a queer rat colony if he wanted to. Genocide was the only way for queer rats to truly become free, as even leaving a single human village alive would ensure the extinction of his people once the humans got organized.

>>150453478
Its a meme from retards who didn't understand the show hence why we keep getting retarded posts like this >>150454422 Squealer sort of lost any stance when he started attacking his own colonies who didn't agree with it and engaging war between other colonies to further his goals. Say what you will about Humanities actions but they ultimately did what they did out of fear for their own survival due to being literal ticking bombs while Squealer wanted to be the dominated race again when he ended up doing his kinds anyways if Kiroumaru didn't bargain with Saki and Satoru the queerrats would have truly be extinct.

>>150455365
>Squealer sort of lost any stance when he started attacking his own colonies

Necessary wars of unification in order to build a state powerful enough to rival the ever present human threat.

>>150453478
Because he was /ourguy/ that fought against the mutants.

I started watching this yesterday, what I'm going for?

>>150457303
Slowish start with a lot of foreshadowing. Good buildup to the climax. Epic climax ended with a pretty shocking but expected conclusion.

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>>150454422
>Humanity saw queer rats as nothing other than slave labour

Technically queerats are genetically closer to the humans you see at the beginning of SSY

>>150455365
>Say what you will about Humanities actions but they ultimately did what they did out of fear for their own survival due to being literal ticking bombs
Enslave mutants was really necessary?

>>150453478
he fucked up his plan by rushing things
probably could have won if he kept breeding x-men, but he probably wanted the glory of victory within his own generation.

If he did nothing wrong then why did he lose?

Checkmate ratlovers

>>150457934
Morals are not always about physical might, bait-kun.

>>150455365
It's really nice to see retard like you calling others retards.

>>150453478
Squealer rhymes with healer
What does that mean?!?!

>>150458252
Complete coincidence. Its an Animal Farm referance

>>150458477
But it rhymes with killer too!
How do you explain THAT?

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>>150455365
You can't overthrow an oppressive regime without breaking a few collaborators

>>150458580
Translate it comrade

I don't disagree what Squealer did. His people, and well, queerats in general, were used as slaves by the humans for long as anyone could remember. Heck, they even turned into artificially made queerats by the humans with psychokinesis powers. He did literally fucking nothing wrong. Yeah, his methods may have been questionable, but in the end, it's not like the humans didn't deserve it - it was certainly justifiable. You might argue about what he did to their queens but shit if you risked dying just by approaching her and having her suddenly go rampage, then something had to be done.

But that's one of the many things that made Shinsekai Yori so great. It was really up to viewer to decide what was wrong or right: what was touched upon in it can easily be reflected in the real world and what has happened in the past here.

>>150453478
He did something wrong though, and thats was failing.

>>150460189
This is a true statement.

He pretty much enslaved his own race by holding the queens as prisoners.

The queerats are us and the "humans" are actually psychic monsters that horribly mutated and enslaved us . Squeegee however wasn't justified only because of how the humans treated the queerats. Even when being totally non-aggressive, the Cactus users irreparably ruined the earth and turned all the animals into horrible monsters by their passive Cactus leaking. It doesn't matter that Saki and her village looked human- they were monsters that both intentionally and unintentionally destroyed humanity. They needed to be exterminated and its unbelievable how faggots like coronary had suck Stockholm syndrome they objected to squeezers rules but capitulated to monsters in human skin. He didn't decide differently- he simply refused to listen to the truth.

>>150455365
>>150454422

Humans in SSY universe have magical powers. Queer Rats dont. Queer Rats are just pets because dont have magical powers

>>150460355
Yeah but you can't argue about them not fucking deserving it.

>>150460405
The queen did, the queerats forcefully used as fodder for his army didn't.

>>150460130
>I don't disagree what Squealer did
Then you're an idiot who watch too much TTGL

>>150460561
What? So you think anything can be united and achieved by peace and love?
Disagreeing with his inefficient method might be one thing but disagreeing with him purely because of moral reasons is stupid.

>>150460380
That's what I was saying in my post though, the only way for queer rats to truly be free of humans was genocide.

>>150460946
>So you think anything can be united and achieved by peace and love?
Yeah you can unit people by splitting them apart.
>>150461078
And that doesn't make them right. The very fact that Squealers own kind hated him was proof enough. Retards like you live in some sort of fantasy where if you fight for a cause your actions doesn't matter at all.

>>150461451
>splitting them apart
When did this happen?
>And that doesn't make them right
Did you just affirm him that there was no other way for rats to be free other than genociding human, then say that genoiciding is wrong? So you're basically saying they should accept their fate as slaves for the rest of eternity right?
>Squealers own kind hated him was proof enough
Hating someone doesn't make that person a wrong person. And remind me again, who in his faction hated him?
If you think you're so high and above Squealer then why don't you come up with your own plan to free the rat kind? Yes, actions don't actually matter unless it harm progress toward the cause or bring about casualties that outweighed the cause.

>>150453478
That's a meme mostly.
He had a good reason for his actions though because cantus users were a nature's mistake that needs to be fixed before the civilization can get back up from the dark ages again.

>>150461851
>When did this happen?
When he attacked his own colonies you fucking idiot
>Did you just affirm him that there was no other way for rats to be free other than genociding human, then say that genoiciding is wrong?
You can't say somebody is right if their method involve genocide especially when you're criticizing the Cantus users for doing the exact same thing
>Hating someone doesn't make that person a wrong person.
Kiromaru and the other colonies hated Squeeler because he went behind their backs and engaged conflict for his own ambition. Did you not fucking watch the show? Kiromaru also didn't trust the Cantus users and held secrets for them but he sure as hell knew Squeeler was even worse.
>NO U DO IT
Not an argument
>Yes, actions don't actually matter unless it harm progress toward the cause or bring about casualties that outweighed the cause.
Then he's not right. Cantus users did what they did to survive Squealer did it for power and if he cared about his kind he wouldn't have manipulated them.

>>150457303

It's pretty good tbqh

I have no idea how this gem slipped under me that I had to watch it years later

>>150462968
Well you're a fucking newfag, that's one thing.

>>150463007

Holy shit fuck OFF

>>150455365
Race traitors deserve nothing but a bullet between the eyes.

If you'd allow all of humanity to become slaves to an alien organism because of some misguided sympathy you deserve death.

>>150455365
>Squealer sort of lost any stance when he started attacking his own colonies who didn't agree with it and engaging war between other colonies to further his goals

Uniting the tribes under one flag is common sense. So long as Queerats fight tribe against tribe they're a little people. A silly people.

>>150455365
>if Kiroumaru didn't bargain with Saki and Satoru the queerrats would have truly be extinct.

If he didn't bargain with them, the queerats would have won

>>150462886
His method was right precisely because it involved genocide. The humans were in a position of power over the queer rats and abused it constantly. They had the option to avoid genocide by not treating queer rats as subhuman and didn't take it

This was literally the only way queer rats could be free because humanity was 2op

>>150463433
Why did he help Saki really? I never got that, it seemed to go to the direction that he was going to betray her but then in the end he didn't.

>>150463876
To save his queen. If Squealer wins then his queen gets enslaved by him.

He was loyal to the end. A true patriot

>>150463876

Muh honor and loyalty

Squealer should have been more cautious

>>150462886
I haven't watched the show since 2013, break me a leg. Also those colonies might've planned to betray him for their own power or out of fear of losing against humans. In any case, you can unite people by putting them into their places, it's not the same as splitting them apart if they're already apart at the first place (like Kikomaru)
Cantus users don't need to kill rats to live freely. Rats on the other hand, need to kill these users if they want to live. That's a huge difference.
So basically Kikomaru hated Squealer because Squealer did mean things to him that Kikomaru would do too, had he got the chance. Boo hoo. And let's not forget that Kikomaru also wanted to go against human but he lacked the mean to, unlike Squealer.
Except that they do not need to fucking enslaved and regulated a race to their own liking to survive, get your fact straight.
If you can't come up with a better, more humane plan than Squealer than you're in no position to judge his actions as wrong as status quos only bring about more suffering to the rat kind.
At least he tried, whether he was humane about it or actually succeed. You don't and failed by default, leaving the rat race to continue being enslaved.

>>150453478
Both sides acted out of the best intentions for their species. The only thing he did wrong was losing.

>>150463876
>muh integrity and honour folded over 1000 times > the future of his people
He was a convenient plot device. The author need the MC to stay alive and the story to end in a bleak and memorable way instead of on a positive note with real humans killing the disgusting espers.

>>150463081
How about you fuck off newfag? Reddit likes you better.

>>150464406
He did it for his colony. If Squeeler wins then his colony is no more. He made Saki promise to save his colony and queen if he kills Squeeler.

When Squeeler is in his jail he mentions that Kiroumaru is an idiot who is stuck in the old ways he meant that Kiroumaru puts his tribe over everything.

>>150462886
>Cantus users did what they did to survive
They didn't need to enslave them for that, only to make them seem inhuman. They did what they did for personal gain.
>Squealer did it for power
He did it for freedom.
>if he cared about his kind he wouldn't have manipulated them
The end justifies the means.

>>150460370
/thread
Though it seems like you had some breakdown during the end of the post.

>>150464558
>If Squeeler wins then his colony is no more.
What do you mean by that? Squealer wouldn't kill his allies, only the queen would be done for.

>>150464558
Kikoumaru has the typical mindset of a lap dog that enable cactus users to abuse his kind.
Probably why he also looks like a dog, heh.
He should've joined Squealer cause in the first place but I guess being in the position of a "good boy" tribe to the users blinded him to the plight of his kind and even himself. Were his tribe not in that position of affection he would be raring to join Squealer (or doing stuffs his own way) any time.

>>150453478
>i want to save the queerats
>massacres kiroumaru's crew
wew

>>150464719
And without a queen there is no future for the colony.

>>150457303
>Kids making up.
>Tribal wars with rats.
>Hippie comunist homos.
>Ex-men done much better.
>Murder cats.
>Alluh Alkabar dogs.
>Kamikaze rats.
>Kids with mental problems.
>The show screwing with your morals.

>>150457651
To be honest his plan could had destroyed if a kid saw another kid because they could had killed one another.

>>150464795
She would be lobotomised but still able to breed. Though I may be wrong.

>>150453522
thanks hirano.


Squealer was literally an anti-colonial freedom fighter. It should have been completely unambiguous that his actions were justified and the only reason it even seems like a question is because Saki is the POV character and was raised in human society.

>>150464603
I doubt Squealer is actually in for the freedom of his kind in a selfless way though. He seem like the sort to enslave his own tribe after he won the war.
The rest I agree.

>>150460189
True. He failed his race and that's why he deserved to die, he said it himself.

>>150464949
squealer's inter-colonial warfare and enslavement of the queens was completely necessary: both of those things were literally just the destruction of tools designed by humans to prevent exactly what Squealer did: organized, consolidated race rebellion.

>>150464949
>I doubt Squealer is actually in for the freedom of his kind in a selfless way though.
He seemed pretty genuine in his "we are humans" speech.

>>150460355
The queens were berserkers who killed just because they felt like it.

>>150464995
the fact that he even sees himself as being a "separate race" and that he has a need to liberate an entire population of individuals is a product of human engineering though. This is the whole problem with the end of ssyk: nobody seems to acknowledge the fact that literally everything that happened was the fault of the scientists who constructed this society.

>>150462886
>You can't say somebody is right if their method involve genocide
No, you can.

>>150453478
Man, Shin Sekai Yori was the first show that made me think HUMANITY FUCK NO.

Far as I'm concerned those psionic fucks aren't human at all. They had to Pavlovize themselves and make it genetically imprinted to die if they hurt another of their own kind. That's great until they make Queerrats mostly so they could have something else to take it out on.

>>150465065
>the fact that he even sees himself as being a "separate race" and that he has a need to liberate an entire population of individuals is a product of human engineering though
To be honest to me they were separate race because they were humans and the espers were inhuman, immoral ayy lmaos.

>>150465065
I don't understand why they didn't just remove cantus in the first place, instead of the queerrat social structure bullshit.

Also what the fuck is a Minoshiro?

>>150464061
>A true patriot
His race is going to be slaves for all eternity, what a good guy.

>>150465160
>To be honest to me they were separate race because they were humans and the espers were inhuman, immoral ayy lmaos.

I think the question of how human the humans were is supposed to be answered by Shun and Saki/old head of the ethics committee. The big point of the show seemed to be that now matter how meticulously people tried to systematically restrain the subconscious impulses that define humanity, they will always find their manifestation, whether those restraints take the form of dramatic phenotypic modification in the case of queerats, or more subtle modification of psychological reality in the case of human society.

>>150465209
He fought for his traditions, his culture, his honor, people and country. He's definitely a patriot.

Just not a very smart one.

>>150464795
The individuals would had left alive, just the queen say goodbye. They would had served under another queen.

>>150465201
I mean I don't think anybody has a good idea of what cantus is or what its mechanisms of action are, so managing it was really the only option.

There's also the fact that the queerats and human society emerged out of a pre-existing empire/subject dynamic: the emergence of cantus created a stark power dynamic which those who had cantus would be interested in maintaining, and the only reason to place limitations on it would be to prevent self-destruction.

>>150465254
>people and country
That's wrong though, they would be better off if he allied with Squealer.
>culture
What do you mean by that?
>traditions (...) and country
This.

>>150465025
He's probably just a really ruthless leader I guess.

>>150465360
>>traditions (...) and country
I obviously meant
>traditions, (...) honour

>>150465201
>Also what the fuck is a Minoshiro?
Possibly a bio-Android.

>>150465399
And that's precisely what his people needed. If he had only a little bit more luck he could have made it.

>>150465254
The only tradition he fought for was a berserker queen.

>>150465201
the false minoshiro is just an archival device of the libraries of the old government.

>>150465485
Well yeah, but what's a true minoshiro then?

>>150465558
It's one of the many post-cantus species that rapidly evolved due to environmental cantus-leakage. The false minoshiro was modeled after it for some reason.

>>150465360
Fighting for your way of life; the things you and your people believe in.

>>150465608
I mean it's a good question why archival automatons were invented in the first place, instead of just using computers like a normal person.

>>150465631
>fighting for your way of life; the things you and your people believe in - being a slave and getting killed left and right by Cantus cunts
A real human bean. A real hero.

>>150465690
To preserve the history. Cantus users put many restrictions on what peole can know.

>>150465762
Like I said, he was a patrion, just not a very smart one.

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I just realized why they were being stalked by murdercats. Because humans couldn't kill them! Holy shit, I'm retarded!

>>150465065
On that note, can anyone explain why the scientists didn't give the rats the same death feedback they gave the cantus users? I mean, between death feedback and morphing every normal human into naked mole rats, the death feedback seems easier doesn't it? Maybe they just wanted to turn them into monsters to be dicks I don't know. But even if they already decided to do that, why wouldn't they make killing a human result in instant death, since they already have the technology for that?

IIRC, the rationale for turning the norms into rats was "if they look like us, we can't kill them, but they can kill us, and that's bad." But why though? You already know how to fix this.

>>150463781
>His method was right precisely because it involved genocide.
And he will always be wrong. Next>>150464134
>. Also those colonies might've planned to betray him for their own power or out of fear of losing against humans.
Nope hence why it was brought into attention by the Cantus users and both Squealer and Kiromaru were brought in to present their cases. Squealer went behind and attack them and manipulate the other colonies to fight one another.
>Cantus users don't need to kill rats to live freely. Rats on the other hand, need to kill these users if they want to live
No they don't. Cantus users don't interfere with what rats do. In fact the rats in Squaler's colony were quite shocked to see that they would even grace them with their presence. Rats can live and do whatever the fuck they want as long as they don't obstruct procedure which Squealer was doing
>So basically Kikomaru hated Squealer because Squealer did mean things to him that Kikomaru would do too, had he got the chance. Boo hoo.
Squaler initiated an attack on his fucking colony you fucking dipshit, he hated Squaler because he saw him for who he was unlike you who seems to believe he was some hero when all he did was doom his race for eternity why Kiromaru saved them.
>And let's not forget that Kikomaru also wanted to go against human
Nope. He had hid plans from them from years back but was still loyal to the Cantus users. He admits that he never truly trusted humans to Saki and Satoru and always had a back up plan.
>Except that they do not need to fucking enslaved and regulated a race to their own liking to survive
THEY
ARE
NOT
ENSLAVED
The you don't see Queerats doing the daily bidding of Cantus users they're just restricted when it comes to contact with them hence why they;re colonies are seperate. Actually watch the show.
>At least he tried
And he failed now because of him all but one rat colony remains.

>>150466040
Doesn't the death feedback run through the cantus, essentially forcing a suicide? Since the queer rats don't have a cantus, they can't kill themselves with it.

>>150464603
>They didn't need to enslave them for that
Where are people getting that they were enslaved? They were allowed to fucking engage in conflict and keep to their own as long as it didn't involved the Cantus users. You never actually saw a Cantus user in a rat colony until Saki's group went into one.
>He did it for freedom.
In your fanfic but he largely did it for power, you were just caught up in his bullshit
>The end justifies the means.
They never do

>>150463781
>The humans were in a position of power over the queer rats and abused it constantly.
This. The queerats position in the world was not sustainable. They were living on the slopes of Mt. Vesuvius, if they didn't do something it was only a matter of time.

There was NOTHING to stop humans from just wiping them out, the same way that nothing stops you from one day just deciding to wipe out a colony of ants on your doorstep.

It would have probably been a good thing, too. The humans of SSY, without the ability to control their abilities, would eventually turn Earth into a death world like from 40k.

>>150466471
>>The end justifies the means.
>They never do
Please be for real.

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What role does the Queerats fill in the human village? Hired in exchange for stuff to the colony?

>>150463433
>If he didn't bargain with them, the queerats would have won
No Squealer would have won. The queerats would have just been under a new ruler not be free.
>>150463781
>The humans were in a position of power over the queer rats and abused it constantly.
You never fucking saw this in the show. EVER. The only time humans engaged in conflict with the Rats is when Squealer attacked them
>>150466558
This is an 18+ site kid

>>150466283
>And he will always be wrong.
Not really. Humans were a dangerous species. If there was a species so dangerous that it poisoned and twisted the environment, making it uninhabitable to us, we'd have no problem wiping it out. That's what humans are in SSY.

If you were a cantus user, it's literally unethical for you to continue to exist. While I can't say it's ethical to kill cantus users, it's at least justifiable.

Let's put it this way:
Squealer is now Lelouch. He is now the main character, and will try to achieve victory no matter what the cost, because he truly believes in what he's doing. His belief was that the Queerats never were below humans, which they weren't, because they were originally one and the same species, and truly dreamed that the tyranny and killing would end one day. He's basically an antihero, willing to make sacrifices to achieve his ultimate goal, which be believes is righteous. All he truly wanted was the best for his kind in the long run.

Do you still think he was wrong?

I never even once thought he was wrong.

>>150466625
They get hired for labor.

>>150463265
>Uniting the tribes under one flag is common sense
No that's fucking stupid. Not all tribes even liked Squaler's method especially after he attacked them.
>>150466653
Actually yes really. The humans aren't really doing anything different from what their original ancestors did before only now they have the means to not deal with it. That doesn't justify genocide at all you're just really retarded.

>>150466669
>Squealer is now Lelouch
Then he's instantly wrong because his show was all amount shitting on him and saying how his entire ambitious was for naught. In both cases you're an idiot for siding with them.

>>150466669
That's what makes SSY interesting. Squealer had a hero's motivation and a great leader but he threw his position and countless rat lives away because he really really fucking hated humans.

>>150466646
>This is an 18+ site kid
killing is evil
there's some lunatic shooting people
is killing him bad then?

Most major religions and most law systems and most people do in fact agree that the end justifies the means.

Please be in London.

>>150466646
>The queerats would have just been under a new ruler not be free.
But they'd have a chance at some point in the future. Maybe not a good one. But they'd have a chance.

While genociding the humans would be the most ethical thing to do, I think it'd be more ethical to genocide the queerats instead of the humans as well.

My reasoning is that it's cruel to let one species, who will never have any true power, whose potential will always be artificially limited, and will never be able to be free from the fear of utter annihilation to continue to exist.

Understand I wouldn't advocate for the queerats to be exterminated, only prevented from having offspring.

There are worse things than simply not existing. What the queerats endure is one of them.

>>150459502
Not him, but it says
>Lenin- Lived
>Enin- Lives
>Lenin- Will Live!

The middle one is Enin presumably because his ear is cutting off the "L" in the name Lenin.

>>150466646
>The queerats would have just been under a new ruler not be free
I'd prefer being under a ruler who doesn't view me as an inferior being. Didn't Squealer support democracy anyway?

>>150466875
Yep, he lobotomized the queens that used to rule the colonies and implemented democratic reforms

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>>150466832
>When Cantus users kill Queerats theyre wrong
>When Squealer kills humans they're right

But seriously you'll get in trouble if you mom sees you on here

>>150466646
>You never fucking saw this in the show. EVER. The only time humans engaged in conflict with the Rats is when Squealer attacked them
They mentioned how entire colonies were wiped out for simple infractions, or sometimes for no discernible reason at all. The human village had specially trained extermination squads as well, who were specifically tasked with wiping out populations that became problematic.

How does that not at least hint at a history of constant abuse?

>>150466759
>The humans aren't really doing anything different from what their original ancestors did before only now they have the means to not deal with it.
Their original ancestors twisted the environment because of their esper powers and unwillingly created dangerous monsters?
Colour me surprised.

>>150466040
the queerats were supposed to be designed so that rebellion would be impossible given the power differential created by cantus among other machinations. The only reason it happened, I'm pretty sure, is that Squealer got his hands on a minoshiro.

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Humans deserved to be wiped out.

>>150453478
He did what he must to free his people from slavery.

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>>150466841
>>150466875
>Yeah we're finally free from those humans what shall we do now oh great lord Squaler
>BACK TO WORK SLAVES
>Don't worry I have a convoluted plan in teh midst that'll be ready in 100 years and we'll take down those Squealers once and for all

>>150454422
>While the idea that he "did nothing wrong" isn't really arguable, SSY did a very good job of justifying and showing his actions as necessary.

The point of the show was the choice between survival and morality. Nobody was in the right except maybe adult Saki.

>>150466759
>Actually yes really. The humans aren't really doing anything different from what their original ancestors did before only now they have the means to not deal with it. That doesn't justify genocide at all you're just really retarded.
The difference is that there are sapient beings, just as intelligent and emotionally complex as them, and in far greater numbers than them, who are being negatively impacted by their activities.

You seem to be automatically viewing the humans in a more positive light because they're cute and pretty. Stop that.

>>150466957
He only had a chance because of the kid he raised. And the reason he kidnapped babies was to raise them to be weapons of war to create a great Queerat empire

>>150466919
What does it have to do with (your?) retarded comment
>>150466471
>>The end justifies the means.
>They never do

Raping SJW redditors is my fetish, please be in London.

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>>150467047
>queerats not cute
Sat that to this face!

>>150466935
>Their original ancestors
Yeah them. Not the current Cantus Users. Thanks for playing you win nothng.
>>150466925
>They mentioned how entire colonies were wiped out for simple infractions, or sometimes for no discernible reason at all.
>mention
Okay.

>>150466370
also this is true. Death-feedback works by using cantus to disable liver and parathyroid funciton.

>>150467095
>Dude, most of history is bullshit because we never seen it happen with our own eyes and it's just "mentioned" in bullshit texts and shit.

>>150466925
>They mentioned how entire colonies were wiped out for simple infractions, or sometimes for no discernible reason at all
Nope. You also never saw them actually wiping them out if any case the rats aren't exactly innocent at all.
>>150467059
Just pointing out your stupidity is all

>>150466978
they definitely did. I feel like the show didn't emphasize enough the socioeconomic link between the old empires and the current status quo.

>>150467093
Squealer is fucking ugly. Looks like my last shit, if my last shit was a delusional mass murderer

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>>150466978
But then we will lose this

>>150467057
All of Squealer's innovations were products of information he shouldn't have had, including his recognition that humans were inhibited by death-feedback and that it could be socialized out of individuals.

>>150467156
>Squealer was right! The Quuerats did nothing wrong!

>>150467190
>Squealer is fucking ugly. Looks like my last shit, if my last shit was a delusional mass murderer

this kind of reaction to queerats is exactly what the scientists who designed them intended to manufacture.

>>150467157
>Just pointing out your stupidity is all
Are you mentally challenged?
>>150466919
>>>150466832(You)
>>When Cantus users kill Queerats theyre wrong
>>When Squealer kills humans they're right
>
>But seriously you'll get in trouble if you mom sees you on here
has nothing to do with my original post
>>150466558
>>>150466471
>>>The end justifies the means.
>>They never do
>Please be for real.

>>150467095
>>mention
>Okay.
Just because something doesn't happen on screen doesn't mean it doesn't impact the narrative. Besides, whether it *actually* happened or not is irrelevant, because this is fiction. In order to have a meaningful conversation about it, we'll either have to agree with regard to what situation we think was true in the story, or address both possibilities.

>Humans would kill queerats constantly.
Squealer was justified. The point I've already made.

>Humans let queerats keep to themselves
Squealer was justified in being VERY frightened of them. While him attacking them is much less justifiable in that case, it still makes at least some moral sense.

And if he found out what an incredible hazard they were, their psychic emanations leaking out and twisting the world into uninhabitability, he can make a damn strong case for wiping them out. Hell, if I were a human in that world, I'd make a case that we should stop reproducing, especially if it became widely known that queerats are human.

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what was his deal?

>>150467157
They would wipe out colonies with hundreds of thousands of members for the infractions of a few rogue individuals.

>>150467013
That would be a decent argument if that actually happened. It was sorta implied though that Squealer cared more about the indivudual queerat's right than humans or monarchists.

>>150467224
I give you that, but still he was the luckiest son of a bitch in the world he happened to fine Maria and that straight kid both in prime fucking age.

>>150467260
He had his reasons for rebelling. He had very good reasons for rebelling but I wouldn't call him a "dindu nuffin." He ruined both his community and the Cantus user community in his quest for revenge and in his jealousy.

>>150467095
>Yeah them. Not the current Cantus Users.
They are still warping the environment. Also, I thought you meant the ancestors that were still human.

>>150467318
He had double vision.

>>150467318
He was so powerful his body started physically mutating.

>>150457303
They all get gay a few episodes in, save yourself the effort from watching this gay SJW garbage.

>>150467095
>They mentioned how entire colonies were wiped out for simple infractions, or sometimes for no discernible reason at all.
>mention
>Okay.
what did he mean by this?

>>150467456
Nah, it was to show that society had evolved a completely alien attitude to sexuality.

>>150467095
I'm just curious, are you capable of telling us what the most basic moral principle you're responding to is when you say that Squealer was wrong? Like, is it against killing in general, or is it because you don't trust Squealers motives? Is it because the humans are pretty and cute? Or are you just playing devil's advocate?

I have to say this is an extremely fun thread. Were the threads this fun when SSY was airing?

This isn't a strike against Squealer in particular, but weren't the queerats take the babies of their enemies to be raised entirely as slaves who get worked to death? Their civilization isn't exactly spotless either.

>>150467497
I really only remember episode 8 and everyone was bitching about fags and shit and the ending.

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This argument about whether the "ends justifies the means" completely misses the reason why Squealer's actions were justified. It's not a matter of cost-balance between the lives Squealer took and the lives that were saved.

The point is that the scientists who created this society literally encoded a power-differential between individuals to naturalize a differential in worth between them. The fundamental structure of this reality is based on an encoded injustice. It needed to be destroyed, whether that was through genocide or peaceful means such as the transformation of queerats back into humans is immaterial.

The whole show is about Saki discovering that this is the true nature of the society that she lives in, and resolving to face that truth in whatever way she can. Obviously the lives lost on both sides are unfortunate; Squealer was justified not because he was morally pure, but because the structure of his reality was irredeemably corrupt.

>>150467496
>evolved
>>>/tumblr/

>>150467479
He probably meant he doesn't believe it because we didn't see it.

>>150467456
>>150457303
Don't listen to this faggot. While the main characters are all bi (all of humanity is, in this world) it's only mentioned in passing and it doesn't get in your face about it.

>>150467539
Evolution isn't always beneficial, if you watched the show you would know that it was supposed to show how fucked up their society was.

>>150467305
>Just because something doesn't happen on screen doesn't mean it doesn't impact the narrative.
Yeah like how Squealer wiped out all those colonies, lobotomized Maria and Mamoru to created and raise their child.
>Squealer was justified. The point I've already made.
He wasn't and you haven't
>Squealer was justified in being VERY frightened of them
He wasn't attacking out of fear he was attacking out of sense of revenge once he found out who he truly was. It was not out of moral at all why teh fuck do you keep egating the fact that most of his own kind didn't approve of his methods unless you're just going to carry on with you stupid fanfic?

>And if he found out what an incredible hazard they were, their psychic emanations leaking out and twisting the world into uninhabitability, he can make a damn strong case for wiping them out.
Not really, not after his actions he can't.
>>150467379
>That would be a decent argument if that actually happened.
Well he wiped out other colonies. You can't dispute that at all really. The show heavily implies that it does not matter who is in charge the same shit will wind up happening.
'>>150467397
>They are still warping the environment.
Not to the extent of their ancestor.

>>150467573
t. homo
It's super in your face about it, it's not like it was just mentioned.

>>150467525
Yeah, everything about queerat society was abhorrent: that's how it was designed by their oppressors.

>>150467497
You're pretty much proving his point >>150466919

>>150467525
Yes, you are right. I dunno how the slavery would apply in Squealer's egalitarian-lite society after his coup. Though he definitely was going to use the children as walking WMDs on other Cantus users in the world.

>>150467539
I used it as a verb but most likely you're shitposting and doing a horrible job at it.

>>150467539
Evolution is value-neutral term. It doesn't imply whether something is good or bad.

The scientists in this universe thought it was a good idea because apparently Bonobos are all bi and they have sex constantly to subvert violent impulses, though in reality that would probably not work because humans also have really strong pair bonds that lead to jealousy.

>>150467538
Exactly. Squealer did terrible things, but it was because extermination loomed over his people every day. The Cantus users did terrible things because extermination loomed over them every day.

Everyone just wanted to avoid Armageddon. Honestly, the queer rats just took it a step further since the humans were already killing a large number of their own kids.

Also, this thread needs more best songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be0HqIhC48c&list=PLaqUEaU3GumibhwJovwB_ur2pebLlCm5_

>>150467681
Listening to that fucking beautiful first ED right now. God damn, one of the biggest strikes against the show is that they switched it.

>>150467681
>Squealer did terrible things, but it was because extermination loomed over his people every day. The Cantus users did terrible things because extermination loomed over them every day.
Literally the whole point of the show and people somehow don't get it.

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>>150467303
>Are you mentally challenged?
>This entire post

>>150467203
Just further proof of the hedonistic and valueless culture of humanity to allow sexual acts for the purpose of pleasure alone.

>>150467670
>though in reality that would probably not work because humans also have really strong pair bonds that lead to jealousy.

Which is why fag never took a male partner, sulked a lot, and ran away with Marie.

Hypothetically:
Our race must submit to some inhuman creatures, our people get murdered from time to time, this inhuman race warps the environment and creates dangerous monsters that kill our people.
Do you
[ ]kill them
[ ]do nothing

>>150467601
>Well he wiped out other colonies. The show heavily implies that it does not matter who is in charge the same shit will wind up happening.
His motivations were a lot more justified than those of the queerat queens who would have waged war against each other too and you can assume that the people under his rule were given a lot more rights. It's an improvement in any case.

>>150467769
Sure glad we live in a civilized world where people just shoot each other over sneakers.

>>150467730
>>150467681
I really like both eds, but the shot of Saki waking up from a nightmare at the end of the first one hit me like a gut punch every damn time.

>>150467538
>This argument about whether the "ends justifies the means" completely misses the reason why Squealer's actions were justified
They never were justified because he was fighting not for what those scientist did
>>150467681
>>150467755
Both of you are fucking wrong.

>>150467633
Can you elaborate? I don't think there was any mention that the whole child slaves being worked to death was a designed feature. It seemed more to me that it was something they started to do on their own.

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>>150467806
>His motivations were a lot more justified than those of the queerat queens who would have waged war against each other too

>>150467801
You're wrong. The real question should be: A few select people get superpowers and turn us into molerates, our now changed people get murdered from time to time, this psychic group warps the environment and creates dangerous monsters that kill our people.

>>150467755
>The Cantus users did terrible things because extermination loomed over them every day.
>Literally the whole point of the show and people somehow don't get it.
Except Cantus users were set once normal people got mutated, no real reason to kill and enslave them.

>>150467538
>man, SSY's world sure is dark
>the narrative really falls down though whenever you examine the factions' motivations
>to think they were ignorant of how fucked up what they were doing was is just ridiculous
>then you start to learn about your own world

>>150467766
You can shitpost whole day if you want, I will even give you some of that sweet drug you are addicted to. Have some more (You)s on the house
>>150467766
>>150467766
>>150467766

>>150467831
>They never were justified because he was fighting not for what those scientist did

but he literally was. He was an iconoclast of every social machination they invented to maintain the power equilibrium that emerged from the old slave empires. He was justified because those machinations were not only immoral, but costly in every sense and barely even functional.

Squealer is supposed to be a foil to Saki in pretty much every way, as someone who learns things that the manufacturers of his reality intended him not to know so that he could begin to change it.

>>150467605
Are you retarded?

No, it was not in-your-face about it. The most explicit gay thing I remember is a kiss between Saki and the other girl, and the dudes romping and rolling around on a grassy field. Both sequences were only a few seconds long.

>>150467995
To be fair, the dudes rolling around and frenching each other was pretty gay.

>>150467854
The inter-colonial warfare and child slavery is a product of the seriously diminished worth placed on each individual life created by the queen-hive dynamic, which was part of the point of using naked mole rats as a model.

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>>150467979
>but he literally was.
He wasn't.
>He was justified because those machinations were not only immoral, but costly in every sense and barely even functional.
And he did the exact same thing
>Squealer is supposed to be a foil to Saki in pretty much every way,
Found another retard

>>150468075
>but he literally was.
>He wasn't.

nice argument, I don't know why people are still responding to you but they should stop.

>>150467775
Yeah you're right, that didn't work out in the fictional narrative either. The scientists implementing that mustve been followers of Christopher Ryan.

>>150467903
Almost exactly the same thing (end result the same, you only change the names "inhuman creatures" to "superhumans", etc.).

I just wanted to distance the problem from the show, and make it easier to look at it from the perspective of the qeerrats.

>>150467882
>and you can assume that the people under his rule were given a lot more rights. It's an improvement in any case.
Yes, saying that while he did not fix everything (which would be impossible) he did improve some things is a valid argument for why queerats would be better off under his rule.

>>150467882
Fuck off from /a/, newshit.

>>150468049
Very. But if that really bothers you so much you wouldn't watch this fucking masterpiece over it I don't know what to say.

>>150465904
Don't feel bad I began lurking 4chan since code geass started airing and I just found out what "dubs" are. To be honest I never bothered looking into it but one day I saw the post number and I went "oooh"

>>150467905
I guess we're not spoilering stuff, but fuck it, this is an old show now.

I wasn't justifying their treatment of the queerrats. That was dickish shit. I was just mentioning that all both sides were extremely focused on surviving the powers Cantus users wielded.

And you *could* excuse the enslavement as making sure the queer rats didn't attempt an insurrection. The one guy in the beginning was going to die after killing a bunch of queer rats (and the minoshiro), and a bunch of people died in the final battle after killing queer rats in the dark. Cantus users were actually at a severe disadvantage in a full-fledged skirmish. They could only safely kill queer rats indirectly, which was difficult since they underwent behavioral conditioning so their powers only worked on things they could see.

This is why Squealer thought he could win. And he almost did.

>>150468157
>masterpiece

Nah, maybe when the shit started getting real it was masterful but I give it a 7/10 overall. I never had a problem with the homosexual content as I earlier said that it was there to showcase how this society's view on sexuality is very much alien to our own.

>>150465904
Yep. And the impure cats were chosen because they could sneak up quietly, outside of human perception, and kill them with a quick clean bite before they could retaliate.

Really the whole death feedback thing is probably one of the most subtle and horrifying aspects of SSY. It means that nobody can ever take responsibility for having to make extremely difficult decisions of life and death, so they become detached from its implementation. That's why it was so easy for them to kill their children who didn't perform or conform.

>>150468096
>nice argument
Y-y-y-you too!
>>150468140
>he did improve some things is a valid argument for why queerats would be better off under his rule.
That's why he drove the rest of the colonies into chaos. Man you guys are making this shit far too easy

>>150467318
That scene where you could see his power and he turns the explosion into a little ball of energy, that was amazing. I wondered if he went thru the homo phase like everyone else because he seemed so inhuman or if he ever had sex because it would seem risky doing it with him

>>150468234
>And you *could* excuse the enslavement as making sure the queer rats didn't attempt an insurrection.
Actually the show could happen only because the author was retarded, the simplest thing would be to give qeerrats mental block that would prevent them from killing Cantus users.

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>>150468318
>Man you guys are making this shit far too easy

It seems easy because you're a total fucking idiot who can't understand how thin his own position is.

>>150468366
>U STOOPID

Already given up eh?

>>150468428
There's nothing to give up on; like I said you barely have a coherent position. Calling you stupid is just my way of explaining why that is.

>>150468318
>That's why he drove the rest of the colonies into chaos
What are you even talking about? Queerats were waging wars against each other before Squealer and if he happened to win them at least they got a taste of sweet human rights.

>>150465904
Other things people may have missed:

- The entire point of the clay soccer-like game was to weed out those who could still use their powers on people.
- None of the Cantus users have glasses. They are conditioned to believe they can only affect what they see, which guarantees any killer will die from a heart attack. This isn't true, as evidenced by how they warp the entire world subconsciously. Anyone with poor eyesight is a danger.
- In the first ED, Shun wears the Karma demon mask and Marie wears the Ogre mask.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of things.

>>150468348
cont
Otherwise I agree with you though.

>>150468428
You are both doing the exact same shit, there's nothing more pathetic than a person thinking he has a moral high ground.

>>150468318
You have to understand though-- you're still applying two different sets of moral judgments to the two different populations in the book.

>Queerats cause some problems (>>150467157
if any case the rats aren't exactly innocent at all. )
Killing queerats is OK and justifiable.

>Humans wipe out entire colonies on flimsy justification
Killing humans is bad.

Are queerat lives, beings who are just as intelligent and perceptive as humans, worth less than human lives just because they're fit and attractive and have magical powers you wish you had?

>>150468055
I feel like that's apologizing a little too much for the rats here, since in the end it would still have ultimately been their societies decision to do that, if I'm not misunderstanding your argument.

It's also been a long time since I watched the series, is there any reason they have to live by the queen-hive dynamic? Squealer did away with it, did he have to keep it a secret from the Cantus users?

>>150466823
Except if you are going to go to war against essencially monsters with powers you have to be prepared to lose many of your men.

>>150468348
If I remember correctly death from the death feedback is from the PK. Queerats don't get the magic so they can't get the death feedback.

>>150468470
>Queerats were waging wars against each other before Squealer a
They were engaginging organized squabbles over territories what Squaler did was plunge them into chaos but attacking other colonies unexpectingly
>and if he happened to win them at least they got a taste of sweet human rights.
You are quite fucking stupid for believing this

>>150468348
>mental block

That was convincing them Cantus users were gods. Squealer saw through that when the boy complained that he was too tired to use his powers anymore.

Most of the Cantus users' tricks were cognitive-behavioral conditioning. The queerrats reproduced too quickly for that to be feasible. The genetic stuff wasn't novel, just copied from other animals.

>>150468557
I thought Scientists used some "genetic engineering" for that. I may be misremembering though.

>>150468514
>since in the end it would still have ultimately been their societies decision to do that

Yeah of course it was: the point is that scientists were well aware of the kinds of decisions they wanted queerats to make when they went about designing them.

The queerats were based off of naked molerats specifically because the latter are the only mammal that live in that dynamic. The dynamic is important because it prevents the emergence of what Squealer ultimately stated to drive at: an egalitarian society which can work toward common political/economic/technological goals and ultimately rebel against humans.

>>150468624
I believe it's both. The scientists genetically engineered PK users so that when a PK user tries to attack someone the PK subconsciously activated and kills them instead.

>>150468624
Yes, genes that cause reflexive action can be encoded. It makes at least some sense they could have a reflexive cantus action, and that it might be trigger-able (with hypnotic reinforcement) by the act of killing a person.

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I unironically think Squealer was wrong

>>150468624
they genetically engineered PK to cause parathyroid failure in the case of hostility toward humans.

>>150468513
Both the Cantus users and the Queerats aren't innocent but to ignore the actions of one and twist it as MUH FREEDOME and to put down the actions of another because of their ancestors is hypocritical. Two wrongs don't make a right,

>>150468747
What would you do instead?

Years later people still like based Squealer.

Heck, I even forgot the psychic names except Saki.

>>150468558
>They were engaginging organized squabbles
It did seem like they were engaging in serious wars in the episodes before Squealer rose to power though.
>You are quite fucking stupid for believing this
Great argument.

>>150465011
Underrated post.

>>150468834
>It did seem like they were engaging in serious wars in the episodes before Squealer rose to power though.
Good to see you didn't watch the show

>>150468513
>Are queerat lives, beings who are just as intelligent and perceptive as humans, worth less than human lives just because they're fit and attractive and have magical powers you wish you had?

Just playing devil's advocate here, but if two groups are basically the same except one has magic, then yes they are intrinsically worth more.

I offer you two puppies. They're identical except for superficial things like one being slightly different color or shorter fur, and oh one of them can use fucking magic. Which one of them is worth more?

>>150465011
>>150468858
>Its okay when Squealer does it

>>150469029
I don't think anyone gives a shit anymore about your ability to strawman in greentext posts or about your opinion on the show in general.

>>150469029
>tips fedora

>>150469084
Just how Squealerfags don't care about facts

>>150468907
Feel free to point out what characterized the battles between Queerats as organized squabbles as opposed to serious wars.

>>150468772
>but to ignore the actions of one and twist it
But I don't do that.

What I did is, I looked at the situation the queerats were in and decided that it's unsustainable. If I were squealer, I'd think it worthwhile to make an attempt to wipe the humans out.

If I were a human, I'd take measures to prevent either the humans or the queerats from having any more offspring... Or if I was in Saki's position, with nigh unlimited time and a mind that was unfettered by psychological conditioning, I'd slowly try to transform queerats back into humans, maybe find a less destructive way of controlling cactus powers.

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>>150469145

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>>150469162
>Feel free to point out what characterized the battles between Queerats as organized squabbles
Sup bitch. Watch the fucking show some time

>>150467224
The death feedback was socialized out of the child.
It had death feedback for queerats, rather than humans, so the death feedback was actually what killed it in the end, it was tricked into killing kikoumaru, once it realised what it had done the death feedback kicked in and killed it.

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>>150453478
squealer was human
and humanity DID NOTHING WRONG

>>150469180
>If I were squealer, I'd think it worthwhile to make an attempt to wipe the humans out.
So you'd take the retarded method.

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>>150468934
> basically the same except one has magic
You forgot the part where the magical puppy is fucking batshit insane by a random factor and needs special training to make it safe so that you dont die and have your whole land destroyed and everyone you love die.

But hey, that "special" training is kinda fun to watch. And you will gain a magical puppy which is no doubt very useful.

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>Cantus users destroyed civilization
>Centuries of unspeakable atrocities
>They now need a 1984 tier government to brainwash them 24/7 or else they kill everyone around them.
>Children get killed by beasts in the middle of the night, disappearances, extreme social engineering, etc.
>Despite this horror regime they can still go mad or have their cantus leak, being a danger to everyone else.
>All of this while enslaving other races and mercilessly exterminating them on a whim.

Who were the humans?

>>150469254
What difference does battles being authorized by cantus users make to the soldiers being killed? It's still a war.
It only makes a difference to cantus users who can prevent Queerats changing the status quo that way.

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>>150468934
The first recorded human with powers was a sociopathic mass murderer.

I'd pick the puppy that sleeps peacefully at the foot of my bed.

>>150469464
>B-b-b-b-b-but

You were wrong. Watch the show next time

>>150469415
Is that...
Is that a doujin of the girl who died in the first fucking episode?

>>150469336
Well, I'd probably go out of my way to kill Saki and the 200 year old lady. They are the smart ones, who haven't been psychologically conditioned into uselessness. Literally the only two in that village. Can't let them live.

So my rebellion would start with sniper shots timed to kill both her and Saki, and then the rest would be a piece of cake.

But Squealer didn't know that, so he couldn't have planned to take them out.

Sad.

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The theme throughout the show is that the humans are not human.

They are sociopathic demi-gods with a broken, insidious "utopia." Once psychic powers were discovered, world war apocalypse happened not long after. Non-psychic humans were forcefully evolved into rat-slaves. They were given basic freedoms by their psychic overlords but still lived under their total control. Even the inter-colony wars the ratmen got into were watched and regulated by the Psychics. If one rat colony was growing too powerful, they would subtly nerf their power to keep the ratmen in perpetual competition with each other. Not to mention if they get slightly frustrated with the ratmen they can literally kill them all on a whim.

Overall I really liked this show when i watched it. It starts very slowly because its a lot of world-building but the payoff was good.

>>150469451
>Reforms his corrupt monarchy into a true democracy
>brings technological innovation to improve the lives of his citizens
>declares a justified war on a disgusting and violent society of god like beings who oppress them

What a hero.

>>150469451
The "cantus leak" was probably because they were conditioned to believe they could only affect what they could see. If they understood that wasn't the case, they may be able to be aware of what they're doing outside of their own sight and stop it.

The book hints repeatedly that the human's desperate attempts to fix things may have made them worse.

>>150469514
>People killing each other in battle for the sake of their states isn't war

>>150469557

Squealer had a top tier keikaku with Maria and Mamoru's daughter. With just a bit of luck she could have killed Saki and Satoru and then exterminating the rest of the village would have been just a matter of time.

>>150469643
>B-b-b-b-b-but

You were wrong. Watch the show next time

Why did they bother making queerats instead of just making non-powered humans infertile?

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>>150469547
It is in the manga which has great fan service.

Two of them actually died. One in first episode and the second later.

One of these two will die

>>150469498
>The first recorded human with powers was a sociopathic mass murderer.

Normal humans turn out to be sociopathic mass murderers too.

>>150469415
Normal humans fit this description too. We operate vehicles, weaponry, even tear matter apart on a daily basis, which is also insane and requires training to be made safe. But like cantus, we DO train people to do them safely.

>>150469679
>copy and pasting your non-argument because you've run out of things to say
Don't bother posting if you have nothing to contribute.

>>150469601
The psychics bred the death feedback before transforming other humans into queer rats. The queer rats' form was necessary to get around the feedback.

>>150469696
so you can maintain a slave class.

>>150469634
>The book hints

Is the book translated?

In one of these threads one anon described how fucked up were the magical emperors and the atrocities they did. Are those in the book or somewhere else ?

>>150467456
>>150467496
>>150467539
>>150467573
Actually SnY splits on the face of homos. Kids are horny so need fuck one another because they are too immature to control their emotions that's why the law in SnY doesn't consider them humans/people. Adults, people with rights, are supposed to be able to control their instincts and are supposed to marry someone of the opposite gender.
Gayshit is viewed as a sign of immaturity.

>>150469673
Satoru was not nearly as much of a threat as Saki. I'd have gotten her predecessor on the education board before I went after Satoru.

Remember, she was the only one not subjected to extreme hypnotic suggestion with the intention that she be the de-facto, behind-the-scenes person in charge who oversees humanity's course. She was allowed to think like a normal person, a rare privilege she didn't become aware of until much later, so she had her finger on the button, as it were.

Satoru was allowed some freedom IIRC, just because he was in the same social group, but he just wasn't as smart as her.

>>150469826
http://shinsekai.cadet-nine.org/

>>150469624

Queerat society is vigorous and in constant evolution while "human" society needs to devote all of their time and resources to avoid killing itself in carnage and madness.

>>150469760
I always got the impression that may have been due to cantus leakage though, not intentional engineering. Like, the cantus users regarded them as less than human, so their cantus transformed them into something less than human over generations.

>>150467601
>lobotomized Maria and Mamoru to created and raise their child.
When is this meme going to end? Kids in SnY world fuck when they are stressed, Maria and Mamuro were in a pretty shitty situation, they didn't need Squealer to motived them to fuck.

>>150469772
What do you need that for when you have Cantus? Their powers were ridiculous.

>>150469829
Hahah, pretty much how the Japanese view it now.

>>150468934
Oh, you forgot to mention the one with magic powers is poisoning and corrupting the world around it simply by existing.
Which one do you want now?

>>150469829
Kids are encouraged into homosexuality so they can vent without the risk of pregnancy. Only adults are allowed to have children because they know the truth of what happens to children.

Teenagers still being screened cannot be trusted with that information.

>>150469673
> Maria and Mamoru's daughter

Come to think of it was it ever revealed how he got their kid?

I doubt rats could contain two runaway epsers, while they fuck and produce a kid they could use.

>>150469909
They were genetically spliced with mole rats. Was the power of science, not magic. Although there's no telling if magic helped along the process a bit.

>>150469698
I heard the manga had a lot of fanservice but damn that's beyond what I thought it would be.

>>150469984
I got the impression it definitely did. IIRC they had images of the "scientists" doing the work out of thatch huts without electricity.

>>150469275
wasn't*
obviously

>>150469972

No, it was never said exactly what happened.

I think he treated them like guests and let them be until they had the kid, then he killed them while they were sleeping.

>>150470034
This is the most likely theory and fits perfectly with Squealer's MO.

>>150469960
When we fuck up this planet we'll go colonize another because we have magic.

>>150470013
It's highly probable. Genetic engineering isn't that simple. You can't decide you want to add two different animals together and then BAM produce a viable hybrid just like that.

>>150470034
I always thought they were drugged to become comatose.

Where did I get that impression?

>>150457613
>mutants
see the genes of the ''mutants'' was forbidden
they fucking know they are enslaving humans

>>150467905
Except when they discovered their powers the first thibg they did was kill like edgelords.

>>150469940
because death-feedback would have prevented cantus use on the cantusless.

>>150470129
it's really important to understand that making queerats as abhorrent as possible was intentional because it exempted them from being viewed as human which exempted them from death-feedback. It was a way to reify the moral inferiority supposed by the inferiority of the power of the cantusless.

>>150470104
rats kept the kid drugged up almost 24/7 to make it more docile. I think it was mentioned after the surprise attack when they figured out who the kid was.

>>150469931
>>150470034
>>150470056

Watch the the fucking show. Squealer lobotomized them

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>>150469704
Except fucking 12 years old cant destroy the whole world and are figuratively speaking walking fukushima nuclear power plants.

0.03% cant just fucking kill everyone with no warning. 1/300000 of us humans cant just wipe everyone out with no warning and no stopping.

Even if you bring up nuclear weapons then it is a weak comparision. Nuclear weapons are controlled by states and not even once has those been used in wars since world war 2. It has been close moments but it was stopped.

Cantu users destroyed 4chan so dont you dare defend them.

>>150470008
You should read it since those are the moments you need to be able to continue this horrible story.

One thing I wonder is why none of the guys join the fun or does anything similar.

>>150469972

>Drug their food, lobotomise them

>They fuck in stressful situations, wait till the kid's born, kill them both in their sleep/poison them.

>>150467538
Cantus was a mistake

>>150470129
There wouldn't be any cantusless if you just sterilized them.

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>>150467095
>They mentioned how entire colonies were wiped out for simple infractions, or sometimes for no discernible reason at all.
>mention
>okay

>Squealer lied
IN HIS FUCKING LAST MOMENTS KNOWING HE WILL DIE
fuck you

>>150470273
Destroying the world was obviously beyond their abilities. As a matter of fact, large scale destruction must have been too. We can tell this by the fact that the world didn't end. If they were able to do that, the first legit nutcase that evolved would have done it. Or the first sandnigger would have ALLAHU ACKBAR and blown everyone up.

>>150470327
like I said, you want cantusless because you want a slave class. Saki's society emerged from a colonial empire in which the cantus-endowed ruled over the cantusless: the scientist's only goal was to prevent the constant bloodshed caused by cantus use against humans, not to liberate the cantusless.

>>150466978
It's pretty terrifying that the clapping emperor was probably the most sane emperor they had

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Did he do anything wrong?

>>150469964
No, adults are allowed to breed, because they have proved they aren't going to become berserkers and they can control their powers perfectly.

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>>150470090
Well, you can kind of do that for individual genes. Like, we put firefly luciferin into aquarium fish. But building bodies is a complicated interlocking array of processes based on timing of cell growth and death, starving certain tissues to cause cells to bend properly etc.
Spoilering because this is pretty grisly stuff.


For example, the strip of tissue, that stretches from the hard pallete at the top of your mouth all the way to the bridge of your nose won't form correctly unless two flaps of fetal tissue grow together properly. To do that, there needs to be a growth factor produced for exactly the right amount of time. Too much, and you get pic related. Too little, and you get anything from a harelip to having a big hole in the middle of your face, and being able to touch the bottom of your eyeballs with your tongue. It seems like a single engineered piece of machinery but it's actually a random mess.

(the signal for the face cells to stop growing coincides with the maxilla finishing its growth process. If it finishes too early, other facial cells get the signal to stop growing too so you end up like this.)


Keep in mind this is a very common deformity with a single cause. Who knows what would happen if you messed with other stuff.

>>150470522
certainly not from the human POV. Kiroumaru is a really interesting wrinkle in the moral fabric of the show.

>>150468341
He has a wife, and he was attracted to Maria in the novel

>>150470449
>because you want a slave class.

But why would I want this? Not only are queerats ugly, they don't seem capable of anything that simple telekinesis or technology easily manufactured with cantus can't do.

>>150470214
No.

>>150470440
Squealer is a known fucking liar.

>>150470272
No, the show stated over and over the kids fuck whenever they are stressed. While it never implies Squealer made them fuck. Hell he got two years if he drugged them he could had forced them to make another kid.

>>150470591
Same reason anyone wants one: free labour. Whether their current society was able to effectively exploit that isn't really the point: the queerats were created to calcify the power dynamic of the old empires by removing the only element of instability: inter-cantus warfare.

You know, this question isn't asked a lot but what happened to the group of people who wanted to preserve technology?

>>150470748
They died, but they left the false minoshiros.

>>150457303
A good story where you're never quite sure where your allegiances are. That's what I loved about this show, I constantly wasn't sure who I was supposed to be rooting for

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>>150470448
>Destroying the world was obviously beyond their abilities
As in the world as we knew it was completely destroyed. Nations gone, communication gone, 4chan gone, whole species mutated so they become super dangerous for everyone.

The world that came after 2012 is nothing but a extreme madmax world combined with all kinds of insane and crazy shit.

The only thing comperable to that event is when the dinosaurs got wiped out. Not even the cold war gone hot which is the most dangerous moment in human history except that moment when the earth got cold enough that there were extremely few humans left on this planet would be able to achive what the canut users did in 200 years or so since we would actually be able to survive nuclear war.

>>150470748
IIRC they got merged with the dynasty people. The hunters and pirates got wiped out and became slaves.

>>150463104
Being for the status quo instead of possible extermination of your race isn't exactly being a race traitor

>>150470748
I think people just stopped caring about it when society became all about using and controlling cantus.

>>150470862
yeah I think Kiroumaru was supposed to represent the condemnation of Squealer's activities regardless of their justification: he's supposed to have an element of self-esteem that Squealer lacks, and maybe a confidence that the current relationship between humans and queerats might be amended in a different way.

>>150470700
The free labour is entirely wasted though since they don't even use it. It just strikes me as bizarre to keep around a slave caste when Cantus lets you live easily in a post scarcity society. Regulating the rats and splicing rat genes into a ton of human beings just seems like an enormous amount of trouble for nothing.

>>150467573
>trying to break the pleb filter
can you just take a fucking hint for once

>>150470693
>>150470693
>While it never implies Squealer made them fuck.
It did. Nowhere in the show does it state that their kid was a natural birth but something that they were forced into concieving

>>150460380
Queer rats are the fucking humans! Did you not see the ending?

>>150470955
>The free labour is entirely wasted though since they don't even use it.

well they use it insofar as colonies that pledge subservience provide regular tribute to human society. I don't know that their society is "post-scarcity", but the real reason queerats were created is that at the time of their creation their was an already established ruler-slave dynamic, which the rulers would have felt the need to maintain for socioeconomic reasons.

>>150470884
They weren't really capable of caring about anything. The brainwashing made them complacent in the extreme. It wasn't just making them resist violence, adults in SSY can barely even think.

Which is why Saki was special. She was spared that brainwashing as a kid because she had been chosen as the successor for some important control job inside the village. Being spared that conditioning is also why Satoru was able to research human DNA, but he wasn't as smart as Saki-- she had to stop reading when she started thinking of the queerats as human, and thinking back to all the ones she'd splatted with her powers-- she almost triggered her own death feedback response.

Which is kind of a bad sign for the future of their world... She has to avoid thinking of them as human, or she will die. What measure of compassion can she have for them then?

>>150471025
Technically speaking, they're not human. They're so amalgamated now they probably can't even be considered a subspecies anymore.

>>150470955
>It just strikes me as bizarre to keep around a slave caste when Cantus lets you live easily in a post scarcity society.
Humans in this world lack creativity and motivation. They may not even be able to think of doing it themselves.

>>150470667
>Squealer is a known fucking liar.
For the sake of the keikaku

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Why dont they just have one canut user train to fight, have that user become blind and have others to direct that person so that in the moment of fiends or brainwashed users the blind fighter would be able to kill with no death feedback response to the blind fighter?

>>150466817
Idiot for siding with our own species?

>>150470989
Prove it.

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>>150471313
Queerrats aren't human

>>150471293
They are brainwashed to believe that sight is necessary to have an effect on this. Read the damn thread.

>>150471486
23 chromosomes
>not human
k

>>150464925
Complete with the rapes, massacres, suicide bombings and making life far worse for his people than they were under their erstwhile '''oppressors''' that are common to anti-'''colonial''' ''''''freedom'''''' fighters.

>>150471907
There are dozens of mammals with 23 chromosomes, does that make that human too?

2/10 made me reply

>>150471623
Then how can you kill someone if you close your eyes before attacking?

It is killing intent or knowing you killed a human that is important for death feedback.

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>>150472110
are serious?

>>150472269
Squealer is a fucking liar

>>150472269
I'm not the guy you were talking to earlier, I just commented on the chromosome remark. 23 chromosomes does not a human make.

Regardless, queerats do not qualify as the same species as humans anymore.

>>150453478

Shinsekai Yori was a really great show.
But I'm still mad for the ending of episode 2, when adult Saki blamed Maria's birth for all what happened implying it was her fault. Maybe it was 'cause my language subs (I'm not english native, so probably it was a bad translation), but I expected for the whole show seeing Maria going berserk.

The fuck, it was almost everyone else's fault, starting by Saki and the old whore. Blaming Maria was like blaming Hitler's mother for WW2 happening

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>>150472368
>>150472517
pic related is the only difference between they and humans
they are us if we were injected by rat genes

>>150468489
>The entire point of the clay soccer-like game was to weed out those who could still use their powers on people

Wouldn't someone who stuck to the rules avoid detection?

>>150472701
But anon we're NOT half-rat. Do you not understand what makes species different? They're no longer biologically human.

>>150468934
>puppy can rip me in half with his magic
Fuck that

>>150472269
Rights that don't protect you from being lobotomized, apparently

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>>150472812
it's just the appearance for god's sake...
they act like us
they think like us
they have the same chromosomes than us

>>150473940
The queen queerrats and the humans were scapegoats and therefore outsiders to them.

>>150473940
Literally the only way to "modernize" was to overthrow the power the queens had.

>>150474000
How they think or act has nothing to do with how human they are. Having a specific set of dna whose marker genes fall within a specific genome set is what makes you human, and the queerats do not fit within that criteria.

>>150474232
but if i put a queerats brain in a human body
would he be a human?

>>150474399
Being put in a human body doesn't make something magically human. That's like saying that cutting someone's arm off and giving them a prosthetic magically makes the prosthetic become human. It doesn't, it's still just a piece of plastic attached to a human. Much the same way your abomination would just be a queerat brain attached to a human.

>>150472010
you realize that all of those things were transitional necessities and not social policies that Squealer was instating right?

>>150467456
>SJW garbage
I want /pol/ to leave
the only annoying gays on /a/ are fujoshits and people who like traps.
I really hope this is bait

I hated the main characters in this anime too much to enjoy it, also what was up with the full on gay shit out of nowhere

>>150465904
No, that was just a stupid contrived plot hole.
They used the cats because the author thought it was cool.
Humans could kill other humans, just not with their mantra. Killing problem child would be as simple as walking up behind them and stabbing them.

>>150476837
>Humans could kill other humans, just not with their mantra.

They can't though. Psychological barriers exist and then there's death feedback.

>>150476992
The text you quoted explains how you are wrong.
The psychological conditioning you are talking about was only for using mantra on other humans.

>>150477116
death-feedback activates when it detects intent to kill regardless of whether its with PK or not.

>>150453478
>how/why did squealer do nothing wrong
dude realized his race was originally human but ultimately forced into slavery via coerced evolution

then his people were subjugated to menial tasks while knowing that his people would very rarely accept any status but of slave citizens all the while Psychic users had to be revered as gods and could kill him for no reason whatsoever and they did just that on multiple occasions

so yea fighting against those that enslaved his race is justified, theres no way the girl and guy couldve convinced their society to mend their ways and release the quee rats from servitude, itd be like the pharaohs willingly letting the jews go