Why does villains always lose in anime and manga? I mean every

>>150127881
>Why does villains always lose in anime and manga?
If they won, they'd be the heroes, wouldn't they?

>>150127952
Usually villains are hated by everyone so I don't think that them winning would change anything.

>>150128022
History is written by the victor.

>>150128022
>Usually villains are hated by everyone
How do you think the people related to those countless killed by the "hero" feel about it?

>>150127881
Fuck off Garou

There should be a series where the main characters are villains against the heroes who are portrayed as the bad guys.

But we already have one piece.

>>150128120
Death Note?
Oh well, the police & L aren't really portrayed as bad guys.

Joker Game works though.

>>150127881
Because story structure and narrative, you pleb

>>150128046
But history can do so much to hide the fact that the villain did horrible things to achieve his victory and it can't certainly change the fact that the villain is morally evil.

>>150127881
>Why does villains always lose in anime and manga?

You mean in every fucking media? American, mainly.

Anyway, villains almost always win in Hentai.

File: edge is ok.png (137KB, 688x359px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 688x359px

>>150127881

In any well-constructed narrative, the antagonist is basically the protagonist of their own story. Recall the two basic subtypes of drama: comedy and tragedy, where the only difference is that the protagonist is either rewarded for their virtues or is punished for their sins.

Also it's reductionist to just lump together "protagonist" with "good guy" and "antagonist" with "villain", see Death Note for a well-known example.

>>150128180
When people discuss Alexander, they talk about the Hellenistic influence that he brought to the world, and the great feats of conquest that he pulled off.
Nobody really talks about all the deaths he is responsible for, or his homosexuality, except to make a point about being unbiased.
He's a hero now. Not a villain.

>>150128228
LOL i bet you like hunter x hunter dont you fag

>>150128263
>LOL
Get out.

>>150128248
Talking shit about my boy Alexander? I'll bring the might of Makedon down on you, barbarian.

>>150128273
How is Ainz a villain?
He just does things that are natural to a skeleton lich.

File: tongue.gif (3MB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 500x281px

>>150128263

>>150128321
Come back when you have a king that can actually keep his territory together for longer than a few years.

>>150127881
>Why does villains always lose in anime and manga?
Villains always lose in real life. Just read a history book. In every war ever the villains lost.

>>150128419
But France lost WW1.

>>150128419
That's not what the Americans say about Vietnam

>>150128433
Pretty sure France won WW1

So based on this thread, a villain is something subjective? Then a hero can be a villain and vice versa? Then explain Emiya Shirou. I can't see him as a villain really.

File: pucci's_death.jpg (960KB, 1489x1145px) Image search: [Google]

960KB, 1489x1145px

Almost

>>150128477
>Fate

>>150128328

Your kidding right?

>>150128465
Sure, if you ignore the damage to their country and focus only on the official winning declaration.

>>150127881
What if the villain is like a tornado or something? How can a tornado lose?

>>150128548
ALSACE-LORRAINE

CLAY ACQUIRED

WAR WON

>>150128553
With a tornado that spins on the opposite direction.

>>150127881
>Rule #1: All images and resulting discussion should pertain to anime or manga

Sage.

>>150128553
A tornado can be an antagonist but not a villain.

>>150128570
I can't find a good image for this thread. Sorry if it upset you.

>>150128496
Why?

>>150128520
Are lakes evil when puppies drown in them?
Are fires evil when they burn down your house?
Are air currents evil when they make a mess of your hair?
Are ants evil when they carry off your lunch and your grandmother to be eaten later?
Are cannibal coworkers evil when they forget to take a shower after a nightly feast and smell of delicious things while you're trying to focus on your job?
It's just their nature.

>>150128477
It's possible but not necessarily applicable to every protagonist there is.

>>150128477
implying fate/stay night is a well-written story and not a complete spergfest

also from the perspective of the antagonist, who has his own goals and aspirations, and is likely entirely justified with regards to his own life experience, the protagonist is some jerk who shows up to mess everything up. most good antagonists are sympathetic, flawed and endearing as people just like the protagonist, the drama just arises from the clashing over limited resources or competing ideologies. the only time you'll see clearcut "this dude is evil" is in morality plays or kids' stories (or pulpy dimestore fare, which CAN rise above that station to become Good Fiction if it can convey the nuances of characterization that feels like it's based on how actual human beings act and not just other fictional characters)

>>150128576
What if it's an evil tornado sprung from the manifestation of the evil found in all men's hearts?

File: 1460574675289.jpg (388KB, 1024x795px) Image search: [Google]

388KB, 1024x795px

>>150128636
Then it will be purified by cute little girls shouting silly things about love.

>>150128661
So a tornado can be a villain? Does that count as a lose? Little girl purification sounds nice.

>>150127881
Kuro inu

>>150128589
Sorry? What?
You're a piece of shit. Nobody fucking loves you. Your parents probably regret not aborting you. I know i would.

>>150128636
that's a Man vs God conflict, or maybe Man vs Nature. Either way once you enter the realm of the spiritual it has to be battled in the spiritual. Also the more important concern is the path of the dramatic action and the interplay between the characters, not just the end state. you can have a psychic oversoul tornado all day ling but if the actual character development and narrative arc is anything short of incredible you'll end up with a boring story

also see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0ZWVGWA4W0

>>150128742
That's just mean.

>>150128761
Mean but true.

File: Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu 039.mp4_snapshot_10.23_[2016.11.23_15.46.28].jpg (397KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

397KB, 960x720px

>>150128419
History is written by the victor, anon.

>>150128616
Judging by my point of view it's evil if the thing takes the decision upon itself, even if it's just following its nature. A tornado can't do that, Mr. Skeletal can.

>>150128771
You are a bit dense, aren't you?

>>150128786
He gets his emotions purged whenever he has them.
He is left with no options but to be an unfeeling machine of murder.

>>150128786
About about a robot that is programmed to always decide the evil option for every decision provided to it no matter what.

>>150128854
I want a robot like that.
Somebody call google's AI development team.

>>150127881
they don't. go read devilman, bakurano, etc

>>150128570
>"nyyeeeh wrong image"
>announcing sage
Take it easy with the 'tism, boy.

File: Keek.jpg (91KB, 691x1062px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 691x1062px

>>150127881
Well-intentioned extremist who commits evil for the sake of good is always great, but they must always fall.

You CAN argue, for example, that pic related did succeed in the end because she did manage to make at least some of the magical girls she kidnapped and forced into what is basically an extreme version of Clue, but in an RPG take into heart the morals she wants them to exemplify, being to stand up for justice, friendship, and the moral good.

Though, heroism is always cool, you're just being an edgy fuck for thinking villains can be cooler.

File: smack a bitch up.png (416KB, 1024x763px) Image search: [Google]

416KB, 1024x763px

>>150127881
Are you fucking retarded?

File: 1470817008454.png (493KB, 1238x1080px) Image search: [Google]

493KB, 1238x1080px

>>150128788
War in the real world is almost never a fight between pure good and pure evil like our Vietnamese finger puppet shows, anon. Each side believes they are the righteous ones, and their enemy is evil. But just keep throwing around ad hominems big boy, good discussion.

File: [UTW]_Shinsekai_Yori_-_18_[h264-720p][FAC060C0].mkv_snapshot_12.09_[2013.03.11_12.48.47].jpg (25KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 1280x720px

>Why does villains always lose in anime and manga?
Do they, though?

>>150129176
I'm saying you are a bit dense because you assume you know things that others don't.
Read between the lines, please.
Everybody else is already 5 steps ahead of you, making subtle jokes that fly unnoticed over your head.

>>150129176
Uh anon, that other anon was being sarcastic in his original post.

>>150129217
One of my first thoughts too. I don't know if I'd say that the MC was evil per se, but the faction she belonged too was definitely the villain side.

File: 1454417510779.png (473KB, 660x720px) Image search: [Google]

473KB, 660x720px

>>150129234
>>150129254
Well shit, I guess I am retarded. Gomenasai anon, it's too late at night for me to even detect sarcasm.

>>150128214
>Anyway, villains almost always win in Hentai.
That's why the nips are based.

Unlike comics, they can't reboot the same characters in a new way. So the heroes need to win, even if the long term villains gets a few one ups on them

>>150128214
>Anyway, villains almost always win in Hentai.
That's why Raidy and Rance are the best. Crossover when?

>>150129347
Rance is a good guy though. He rapes his women "gently".

>>150127881
Because then the villain would have to be the protagonist, unless you want a really garbage story where the last boss who had 0 screen time wins and that's the end. Might as well be a 4 koma story at that point.

File: 1477378374523.gif (1013KB, 352x348px) Image search: [Google]

1013KB, 352x348px

>>150127881
>Why does villains always lose in anime and manga?

>>150129368
That's what I mean. The heroes win and rapes the losers and defeats the big bad. That's the best outcome.

>>150129392
Guts will lose.

>>150128046

Yes but a story isn't written by its victor. That's a stupid analogy to make.

>>150129581
!hawk go away

Do they lose when they have ruined the MC's life and killed all his friends, family and love interests?

Take Kotomine. The guy lost the last fight, but that doesn't mean he wasn't able to make the MC's life HELL till then. He's probably laughing somewhere at the bottom of a fire pit.

>>150128248
>shitting on alexander
but you weren't saying shit when he was around kid

>>150127881
What are you talking about? In anime, almost always the villain wins. They are just called heroes and we see everything from their point of view, but they are still villains.

>>150127881
You should read yakuza manga. It's full of victorious villains.

>>150128419
>In every war ever the villains lost.

Haha, no. The villains that won simply proclaimed themselves heroes and written the history as they liked. Take any Roman conquest for example.

You need to watch more anime, or at least give up shounenshit as an example

There are plenty of anime with bad and bittersweet endings.

>>150129347
Rance isn't a villain.

>fought off demon and slav invasion of Leazas
>prevented the return of the Eternal Demon King
>Prevented Magical Steampunk Nazi's secret weapon from devastating the world
>crushed pedophile slave ring abusing orphaned lolis in Zeth
>destroyed the apartheid caste system in Zeth
>arranged for hundreds and thousands of refugees to be sheltered and fed
>fought off demon invasion of Zeth
>reunified JAPAN
>prevented the JAPANese genocide
>killed the demon haunting JAPAN for thousands of years
>invested in education in Leazas
>ensured the continuation of the Kalar royal family
>reduced Kalar rape by over 20,000 percent
>prevented Kalar genocide
>fought Magical Cyborg Hitler
>helped restore the rightful prince of Helman to the the throne of Helman
>brought democracy to Helman
>increased living standards in Helman by over 500%
>unified humanity

>>150127881
Im sorry to tell you this anon. But that is cuckold thinking. You might think it isnt because you are not familiar with it, but as a/pol/ack who actually studies this stuff i can certainly say that you are thinking as a cuckold. You want someone who will do harm to you to will over someone who will help you. You probably want them both to fuck your gf/wife too, dont you?

>>150129875
Again, see >>150129393

>>150127881
Most of villains are stupid amateurs, and they are wanted to bring world to the destruction. World didn't want to die, so he is a made a counterforce to stop the villains.

>>150129765
>those evil gauls dare living on the territory we just discovered! we need to punish them!
Romans were right 99% of the time tough. They had a better culture, it needed to be spread.

>>150127881
Same for fiction in general. It's a matter of justice. We want to believe good will triumph over evil, that the good are rewarded and the bad are punished. The opposite is depressing, like reality. It's also aesopy about right behavior and values. Sadly people (particularly kids but the older are also susceptible) will think the one who won must have been in the right and his actions and behavior are ultimately vindicated. Do you want kids to think the lying, cheating, backstabbing, mean person is the one they should emulate?

What I think you resent is how it's taken for granted you should side with a "good guy" and that the good will always win. It's a problem that comes up frequently in WWE wrestling. Faces will get lukewarm reactions or even boos because they're boring or irritating, while a heel may be cheered for being more charismatic and passionate in comparison. Above all, people want to be entertained and if you work by what "should" be the case, you have to make people buy it. I'm totally fine with the villain willing if I can buy it.

>>150129875
>>reduced Kalar rape by over 20,000 percent
You can't reduce anything by over 100%.

>>150130170
Maybe reduced rape by 100% and increased negative rape by 19,900%

>>150130221
This. Because all the kalars were now fucking Rance and he certainly wasn't getting raped

File: OC4komadonutsteel.png (34KB, 300x1056px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 300x1056px

>>150129381
>Might as well be a 4 koma story at that point.
You mean like this?

>>150130221
I wonder if we should get a negative rape tag, so we can finally separate the "she liked it at the end" pulp from proper rape fiction.

>>150130385
What's with that silly guard on the evil guy's sword?
Why is he jumping past the hero? Performing an attack in the same motion as turning your back to them is really fucking stupid, unless you're on a horse and can't help it.

>>150130444
Yeah well YOU'RE stupid.

>>150130444
>he doesn't know about *teleports behind*

>>150129381
>the last boss who had 0 screen time
Actually, can't we just give the last boss almost equal screen time from the beginning? It would make the final conflict more intresting.

>>150130496
Teleporting behind somebody is fine.
Disregarding your defense just because you think your attack is going to be effective is not.

>>150130552
>Disregarding your defense just because you think your attack is going to be effective is not fine
You could say, it's evil.