I don't understand, why did Ainz extort from Lizzy? She's

>>149791595
>I don't understand, why did Ainz extort from Lizzy? She's an old woman in distress and seeing the state of his treasury, he clearly didn't need the money.

She could make potions and her grandson had a powerful talent.

He needs money from the new world because if he uses money from Yggdrasil he tips off to other players, that he is a player.
Ainz is a skeleton now, his feelings are much more monstrous than our own. He only really cares about Nazarick at this point.

>>149791868
Wait, but wasn't the point to be recognised? Didn't he want people to know he was from the video game? I thought he didn't use it because other people would know that he was not from their country and possibly world.

Pretty sure he has multiple somewhat conflicting goals
>keep Nazarick safe and hidden from other players and locals whose military and technological power is mostly unknown. There might as well be magitech MBTs and ICBMs on the other side of the world for all he (and we) know.
>become known personally in a way that would identify him as player only to other players
>get as much info on the world as he can
>acquire local production methods to use instead of his limited stock of game items

>>149792143
Yeah, that's my thought too. He didn't want foes to track him down to Nazarick maybe

>>149791595
Frankly, although he has become a lich, he has maintained part of his true personality, which is not evil. A true neutral in rpg alignments. He's paranoid, hesitant and often gets involved with his NPC that are the real drivers of all the evil things of Nazarick.

Furthermore, even if he believe the contrary, it is shown that he has feelings. His lich form limits his mood shots, but when his party is murdered, he feels something.

>>149792589
He killed like 10 thousand peasant levies and nobles just to establish his nation. What exactly differentiates neutral and evil? Evil doesn't just mean you do bad things for fun. Even if he's doing it for the arguably noble goal of establishing a naion where all races can live together he's definitely crossed into evil territory here.

>>149792143
Long term versus short term.
His long term goal is to spread the name of Ainz Ooal Gown in the hopes his friends somehow got transported and can find him.
In the short term he wants to keep hidden as he does not know if there are other enemy players around and how strong they are. Thus he first has to get established in the world before revealing himself. (He is paranoid as fuck)

>>149792813
It was a war and he used WMD on a battlefield against soldiers. Peasant conscripts, but still soldiers.

>>149792813
By this logic, a paladin will fall from grace after the first kill.

>>149791595
It's an R&D investment.

>>149792813
He killed more like 50k. Maybe 60k. Dont think we ever got an exact figure. Not surprising since splat splat splat splat splat splat splat made it hard to count bodies.

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>>149792813
Do you not remember how he gave kingdom a fucking choice to give up this land without a fight?
They had Gazef, a strongest member of the surrounding countries swearing before king and nobles that picking a fight with Ainz is sheer madness.
They did not listen and assembled an army against him.
They even sent a subjugation force against the peasants Ainz cared to save and empower.
Do you not remember Carne village featuring his potion-making project?
This is like threatening one of your R&D offshore facilities.
Nobody would look kindly on that.
Before SPLAT nobody in surrounding nations were taking him seriously enough except for maybe Slane but bakana too.
He would not be able to establish shit this way.
>TL;DR
Like Gazef said:
Ainz is a sensible man - you treat him with respect and you can deal with him the same way you deal with any other nation leader.
If you don't - you get the SPLAT.

>>149792813
180,000 actually. 70,000 with spell, the rest were SPLATed.

>>149792813
>just to establish his nation
Incorrect. Two reasons:

- Bait other players.
- JUST asked him to do it.

>>149791595

I got a player like that in my RPG group. The answer is this: Ainz is a fucking idiot.

Because he's a fucking idiot, he doesn't understand the value of building social clout through connection and alliances. Instead he just tries to "extort" and "outwit" everyone he meets because he believes that will make him safer. I don't know why he thinks that will make him more safe, but then again I'm not a fucking idiot, so I don't know how he thinks.

>>149791595
>extort
>>149793567
>extort
Excuse me, but what the hell are you talking about?

>>149792813
>killing hundreds of thousands of the enemy is evil

Yeah it's much less evil to allow both armies to spend their forces killing eachother so the casualties would be doubled. And with luck the battle won't have a decisive victor so they can spend even more hundreds of thousands of lives on further battles in an endless war.

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>>149793467
>JUST asked him to do it
Almost forgot about that
>Be JUST
>Need to know limits of this damn skeleton power
>Or you'll lose your grip over nobles back home
>Can't bend over before weaklings
>Please cast most powerful spell during the battle
>Your generals plan to use this spell to form a breach and charge into the opening
>YFW half of kingdom zerg troops are dead
>Your soldiers are traumatize
>They resign and plead you to ensure peace with skeleton
>Lose hair
>Suffer gastritis

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>>149793567
>he doesn't understand the value of building social clout through connection and alliances
Are you fucking retarded?
>Dwarves
>Lizards
>Ainzach
>Renner through Demi
>Nfirea
>Enri
>Gazef
>inb4 Leinas
>inb4 JUST

Building social connections and peaceful alliances is all he wishes for.
Being an quintessence of malice and hatred for all living in the eyes of New Worlders does not help his cause one bit though.
He's new on NW political arena.
Before you can deal with people through honey - you need to make sure that they seen your whip.
Otherwise strong will just come to devour you, get their shit wrecked and you'll have a millions of dead bodies to govern over and ally with.

>>149793880
Being JUST is suffering. At least now he can form a club with Pe Riyuro.

>>149793996

>is one of the strongest casters to have ever existed
>can't get himself a wand of polymorph with 50 charges

like I said. A fucking idiot.

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>>149794564
Obvious LQ bait, but I'm going to sod of in a second so why not:
>can't get himself a wand of polymorph
Yggdrasil was very specific about user choices.
You can only have one character and the only way to change your build is through deleveling by death.
I do not think such convenient items as "wand of temporary polymorph" ever existed.
Ainz loves his build and he's most efficient with it.
He can't risk any permanent changes to it because of constant DEFCON2 over other Players.
also
>is one of the strongest casters to have ever existed
Did you not read the fucking LN?
Yggdrasil entities are much like a constructs: they can't really change.
He can't even wield a fucking sword: he's barred from it by the system.
Developing new magic and new items is future potential, not current possibility anon

>>149793434
That's not fair. Only Gazef saw him at Carne, and he didn't even saw his full power. To the new worlders he is a god, can you imagine that someone could have that kind of power? Fucking Gazef couldn't have done anything to stop the king because he himself wasn't sure of Ainz power level. Who was Ainz to the king?

If he had summoned the goats and done nothing, the army would have surrendered.

>>149794856
>If he had summoned the goats and done nothing, the army would have surrendered.
Are you sure about that? There's a reason pride is considered the biggest of the seven deadly sins. The idiotic and proud nobles would've claimed that the goats were useless/illusions to begin with and because they couldn't do anything, Ainz had no choice but to call them back. Also, one of the conditions to win E-Rantel.
>Victory should be an overwhelming one
With SPLAT, Ainz clearly showed where he stands to these foolishly prideful creatures called "Nobles".

>>149795495
Except that just by summoning he wiped 1/3 of the army. I guess the nobles would call it nerve gas.

>>149791595
He didn't extort her for money.
As the others have said, he rather extorted her to get himself two new potion developers.
And to keep the guy who possess a rare talent and knows Ainz secret close to himself.

>>149795797
As I've said, they are foolishly prideful. So yeah, one or the other way they'd have found a way to talk shit.

I guess after Momon defeats Jaldabaoth in vol12, Ainz will resurrect Ninya and the others. He can call it a reward.

>>149796062
>He can call it a reward
For whom? Demiurge...?

>>149796105
For Momon ofc

>>149796231
So, Ainz would give a reward to himself?

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Where do I go to read the LN?

S2 when

Idiots. Is war. Everything and anything is allow. They should be fucking happy and kissing his feet for allowing 30% to survive. I would have ended the whole army by pursuing them.No mercy in wars.All Empires are build upon the bloods of the their enemies.
These 2 idiots empires are just playing children war:
>telling each other where they would fight
>doing it every year the same time
>try to look nice by still negotiating stupid demands
>empire charge 1 time and war is finish
>People thinking a could play heroes
>nobles feeling same at the rear
>important people thinking that worse case is being capture and being ransom

Ainz said:fuck this shit!I will end your wars permanently.I will show you what real war is about.Fear,slaughter,cruelty,gore,blood,despair and death.Put so much fear they never want war again and have anymore heroic thoughts.
>Besides,a king should not show mercy to enemy soldiers ,but only care about his own nation.

>>149791595
Why not? He needed people to help him resupply his potions and he knows they were the best out there. Ainz also kinda like Enfri,so might as well took him into his service. He made a deal with Lizzy. Give everything in return for the life of her grandson. He just wanted them to give up their post in the city and come work for them with everything the had(no loyalty anymore for the kingdom). He was very generous by healing his eyes and remove the necklace by destroying it.Ainz could have taken both the necklace and him back for experiment but didn't.

And why would he care about those adventurers? They only know each other for like 3 days and 1 of them even annoy Nabe the whole time.Letting them revive would complicate things with the guild.There is no benefits doing it. Low rank adventurers with barely any worthwhile information. He repaid them anyway by saving Tsuare.

>>149798470
>No mercy in wars.All Empires are build upon the bloods of the their enemies.
How's being 12 treating you?

>>149791595
>I don't understand, why did Ainz extort from Lizzy? She's an old woman in distress and seeing the state of his treasury, he clearly didn't need the money.
Well that's easy to explain. It's just that READ THE FUCKING NOVELS

>>149796347
It's a marriage present for Tsuare, damn it dude.

>>149798908
To be fair, that is how empires in the past were made, hell Rome was built on the raid-rape-ransack principle.

>>149794856
>That's not fair
Life isn't fair. It's a core aspect of the isekai genre in fact.

>>149798908
Is the truth. Just think about all world conquerors: Ceasar,Alexander,Genghis Khan,Augustus,William and Napoleon.
All conquerors build their nation atop mountains of corpses.They are all great men, but definitely not good or kind people.
Just look at what the Europe did with the natives. You name a nation that never did any bloodshed in history.

>trying to compile list of lore fuckups DUB did
>literally everybody except Ainz's outer voice fucked up
Gods Fucking Dam It.
>>149799178
Sealand

>>149798908
>hey let's have a war but remember that killing most people is off limits and using chemicals or any weapon of mass destruction isn't allowed

Western wars are garbage.

>>149799126
Life isn't fair. That is the harsh truth in reality. Also what author like doing to characters. That's why he didn't give a exception to that girl in the worker team in v7. WN he listen to fans vote,but LN it's better to show that life isn't fair. For 1 happiness another must suffer in return sometime.

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Where do you guys read the novels?

>>149799383
Is fan fiction! You should just buy the book now.
>Amazon

>>149799383
The internet skythewood jew-kun, now go educate yourself.

>>149799383
On my massage chair, in front of a fireplace with a bottle of juice enjoying the smell of snow.

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How could Ainz be so cheap to hide his staff away again. He already did that for 12years in the game. Even the staff will feel neglected by not using it's tremendous power. He would look so cool with it.

>>149799685
Level 100 were shitting their pants when he used it, what do you think would happen to people who's level average is 1-5?

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This is what Ainz had in mind when he cast the spell in volume9 at the battle field. Too bad the knights are terrible at cheering. Good thing Mare was there.

>>149799752
Exactly. Just would then see him as god and surrender that very moment. Could have spare him all the suffering.

>>149799916
They would literally fall over and die. Ainz would be like an angel of death on a genocide mission.

>>149799861
Sometimes I wonder how can he be such an idiot.

>>149800004
He has pure and simple thoughts. Most of the time,his good intention were greatly misunderstood.

>>149792813
>10 thousand
It was 150 000

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>>149791595
Who cares about Lizzy, Overlord is all about lizards now.

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What type of mobile game do you want overlord to get? cause it's getting one for sure.
I want an army raising game where you challenge other players and gain resources and glory.

>>149800379
180000 according to v10

>>149800437
>I don't read the LN

>>149798470
>idiots
>is war
>everything and anything is allow
ESL-kun pls go, also what is: The Geneva Conventions.

>>149800437
And after this,we will have to suffer a arc of Climb

>>149798470
>>149799178
>>149799270
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQHUAJTZqF0

I jumped to a random chapter, Who's Tsuare?

>>149792589
Ainz is textbook Neutral Evil, doing whatever will benefit him/Nazarick most. The only time he really breaks from it is when he spergs out about not wanting to be like Herohero's boss.

>>149800564
LNs are for nerds.

>>149795495
The army was already broken at that point. You at the most need to get rid of 25% of enemy troops to send 99+% of armies running.

>>149800675
random chapter of which volume

why did you skip

>>149800875
I skipped because there are no pictures

>>149800657
This song bring sure me back.

>>149800905
She is a slave that Sebas saves and takes care of

this later causes some issues, but ends pretty well for her

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I'd like to see Shalltear being used in Demiurge's breeding pens

>>149801272
Can she even breed?

>>149801689
With potent enough semen, yes.

>>149801738
There's nothing in there that interests her though, except maybe demon bird cock.

>Albedo buried her face in the cushion and sniffed furiously.

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>>149801272
Demiurge doesn't treat fellow NPC creations like that she is only into other undeads anon

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>>149800439

>>149801895
>only into other undeads
>creator is a giant bird
If you gave her a chocobo as a pet I bet she wouldn't be a virgin anymore.

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I wish Mare was a femal, so we would have two cute little twin girls who regularly scissor each other.

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Albedo is going to betray Ainz right? That little bit at the beginning with him messing with her setting isn't just a one off thing right? It must have some major consequences later down the line.

Can /a/ ride a bicorn?

>>149802258
>Albedo
Why did they add this waifubait?
>WN is liked because it's not another copy paste LN
>adapt it to LN because monies
>copy paste some waifubait character and make LN as generic as possible but still edgy
>faggots eat this up
Can't make this shit up.

Since I've lost my job and have some free time, which should I read? The WN or LN? I've already watched the anime.

>>149802665
Go find a new job? And use that money to buy LN

>>149802435
>slut who's fine with anyone as long as they please her.
Literally only good for a donkey show.

>>149801813
What interests her is kind of a irrelevant once she gets chained inside the pen.

>>149802727
I would love too but not a lot of demand for IT technicians at the moment.

I'm guessing LN is the best course?

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Shalltear must have the tightest pussy

>>149803102
LN is the improve and heavily edited version of WN.
If you started with LN,then you would not be able to read 10chapter of the WN without losing interest

>>149803190
It would be a joy to enter Shalltear's virgin pussy.

>>149803229
But would I be missing info with the LN?

>>149803424
>virgin

I'll also assume that you're not then?

If Shalltear is an undead why can she eat and drink, does that mean she has a metabolism? Or does her body just dispose of them magically?

>>149804196
are you purposely not reading the novels for some reason?

>>149800581
>The Geneva Conventions
In the new world? Are you high?

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I like his battle outfit. I hope someday Ainz can also use swords in combat.
Go Gin should meet Shalltear. She could stop his strongest move with her finger.

ST see Ainz and is confuse if he is their god of death Surshana. Then 5 more overlord appear from the library. ST scared shitless that 6 god of death is walking on the continent.

>>149800581
> The Geneva Conventions

No one actually follows this. They just pray they don't get caught. Dead men tell no tales.

>>149804292
Where was this ever addressed? I only remember in one special Shalltear said she can eat and drink, and in vol.11 she asks Ainz if she should piss hersel, the question is why.

>>149805396
Stop speedreading then

>>149805396
She's a vampire dummy, not a skeleton.

>>149805441
Vampires can eat and drink normal food?

>>149805485
Well in most fantasy settings yeah. The usual problem is that it tastes like ash to them. I'm guessing Shaltear doesn't have that problem though.

Can't wait until Renner takes control of Rubedo and destroys Nazarick.

>>149804897
Anyone has the compilation of the art of the LN?

So far all the guardians have seen action. Only Mare hasn't done any great action yet. I hope after v12 with Demi arc, Ainz could send Mare to dragonic kingdom and take home a loli dragon queen.

>>149805753
Mare is going to meet the rapeking and make a law where every elf has to crossdress now

>>149805845
Unless Just is still scheming to use elves to honey trap Mare,the chance is pretty low we will get to see any action in elf kingdom.

>>149805753
>Only Mare hasn't done any great action yet.
Concealing Nazarick. Annoying tagalong adventurer. Prostitute with a snake. Earthquake.

>>149806356
Great action where he appear for at least a chapter long. Most of the things there didn't even last minutes.

>>149791595
>Did he not care for the dead adventurers he was with?
If you're good at something, never do it for free.

>>149806448
Ok, I agree. The Mare-focused chapter would be great.

>>149806463
Ainz looted their bodies. Took journal+the black dagger. If he didn't have to let the guild see the bodies,he would probably bring the corpses back to Nazarick and put it into good use for his servants. Ainz is very good at recycle and cheap like hell.

>>149802917
>chained inside the pen
And why would Demiurge do that? Why would Ainz let that happen to the daughter of his best bro...?

>>149805596
>Implying she wouldn't fall in love with Ainz' powerful and wise eyes and would crave for papa's bones just as hard as Albedo
The girl has an S level eye fetish anon. Its just a matter of her meeting Ainz in person ans taste the wisdom of the Overlord of Death

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Albedo only love the name Momonga?

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>>149794856
>If he had summoned the goats and done nothing, the army would have surrendered.
Bullshit.
>>149798230
You again?
Fuck off mate.
Don't ask immature brats about it.

>>149799685
It's overkill in NW and he's not taking any chances with people like Nfirea around.

>>149807638
>She's in love with Momonga
She just doesn't like the fact that Momonga has discarded his own name and is using the name of the group that abandoned her and other NPCs.

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>>149800004
He played Yggdrasil too much.
Doesn't realize how his appearance is seen in NW half of the time I bet.

>>149800581
>The Geneva Conventions
>Medieval NW setting
Are you high anon?
Leaders of today seldom follow them.
International law is just a farce now.
Everybody follow it when it's convenient and declare "internal affairs" when it's not.

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>>149801813
Who summoned me?

>>149800439
>civ6 mod

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>>149803434
Harems, some 18+ stuff, Demiurge epic robes and hair, Shalltear intellect.
Not much else, Maruyama really grown since then.

>>149804897
>Ainz can also use swords in combat
He will buy that sword from Dwarves.

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>>149806448
He probably does not have internal dialogue like other characters that took after their respective creators.
Underneath the zettai ryouki, god-tier thighs and cute face there is a cold and calculating machine.
The exterior is only that: exterior.

>>149791595
>extort
It was a simple business transaction: Lizzie hired adventuring team "Darkness" to recover her lost grandson.
Both parties negotiated and agreed upon payment terms, namely "everything Lizzie has to offer".
How is this
>extortion
?

It anything, Ainz is overqualified and underpaid.

>>149808405
>If anything, Ainz is overqualified and underpaid
True enough. If we consider the discussion between EE and Gagaran in Vol 5, the Clem-Khajit incident was a highest level of Admantite quest. Even EE and Gagaran had doubts that just the two of them could've completed the mission on their own.

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>>149808578
>EE and Gagaran
>VS
>Kaji and Clem + 2 Skeletal Dragons + hordes of zombies
Anon I think if they avoided wasting time at hordes of unintelligent undead - they would have wrecked the shit out of Zuranon duo.
EE is like Legend Tier in NW.
With her support Gagaran could hold off against Clem for 1.5 minutes it would take EE to squash baldie.

Where is a good start on the WN? I want to skip to the interesting parts

>>149808658
Go read vol5 chapter2 again. Its not as easy as you're making it sound like.
> if they avoided wasting time at hordes of unintelligent undead
That's a big part of problem because in Ainz' case hordes were intentionally avoiding him. EE herself admitted that she'd have to fight seriously. And everything you've stated doesn't change the fact that it was still a highest rank of Admantite quest. I also doubt that Zuranon duo would've fought against Blue Rose in the same way they fought against two nameless adventurers.

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>>149809065
>what is [Flight]
>what is EE Negative AOE
She could creep up through the sky and drop spell at living enemies, mop up the undead steadily then.
I know it's adamantite, but it wouldn't be so hard for them.
They didn't know the composition of enemy forces when they made these assumptions.
Would they know it was ~30lvl warrior and ~20lvl necromancer - they would've thought differently.

>>149809230
>it wouldn't be so hard for them.
Actually, it depends. How many seventh-tier spells does she know?
Are they effective against the undead?
Because Clem is probably more than a match for Gargan.

>>149809230
>but it wouldn't be so hard for them
Regardless, the payment for the job was not unfair in anyway. Which was my point from the beginning. And EE and Gagaran did have their doubts about the job. No one had the exact information about the job which just adds up in its difficulty level.

>>149809402
>>149809230
Plus Kajit used his followers as a meat-shields to survive the first attack.
So I don't know about this "magic sneak attack" bit. Seems like an incredibly risky gamble to me.
If it fails, you have to deal with two powerful monsters in the air while dodging enemy caster magic.

>>149809230
You forgot the bunch of lv 10-20 necromancers and the 2 skeleton dragons.
Narberal beating them doesn't tell you their true strength, if she didn't have 7 tier+ magic she would have lost.

>>149810204
If I remember correctly, retard has the highest level out of the all battle maids.

>>149810281
>Narberal: lvl 63
>Lupus: lvl 59
>Solution: lvl 57
>Entoma: lvl 51
>Yuri: lvl 51
>CZ: lvl 46
Yes, Narberal is the strongest(second strongest) in pleiades.

Does the WN go over Tsuare? I've been looking but no dice.

I'm just interested in Sebas's relationship with her.

>>149809230
By reading Yen Press vol2 I just realized Clementine was one of the leaders from Zuranon. Not sure why I didnt get it in Sky;s translation. Perhaps I had just forgotten.

>>149810452
I completely forgot about the Lastborn.
My point that this encounter wasn't easy at all. Nabe was forced to use magic seriously.

>>149791595
>Did he not care for the dead adventurers he was with?
Not any further than they could help him, no. Ninya was a partial exception because of her diary which saved Tsuare.
He got mad at Clementine for getting in his way and for excessive cruelty which he isn't a fan of.

>>149810204
Narberal didn't use any of her actual battle gear, she's technically qualified as a battlemage, not an elemental caster.
It's likely she could've just physically pummeled the Skeletal Dragons to death in her purple gear.

>>149811894
She could easily teleport behind Khaji and rip his head off. She used 7th tier not because there was no other choice, it was to show Khajit that how inferior he and his biggest weapon(Skeletal Dragon) was.

>>149811894
>seriously
Nabe can use 8th tier magic, she just used that shit to show off. If you look at her stats she could've punched the dragon repeatedly and won, just look at the armor she wears in battle mode, and she used Dimension Door to stab Khajit on purpose to show that, actually, she doesn't even need to cast in order to hit the faggot.

>>149793567
>Instead he just tries to "extort" and "outwit" everyone he meets because he believes that will make him safer.
No he doesn't. He's quite open and cooperative with everyone he meets.

Its not his fault that half the people he talks to are completely paranoid and see threats where there's only honest offers for peace.

>>149793567
Can you give even a single example of your claim

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I like Sebas, he's merciful

>>149800693
He's actually more Lawful Neutral, where his personal morality just happens to be "muh friends first" with a smidge of "don't break promises and honor those who've helped me".
It just so happens that him being a lich prevents him from acting Neutral because the act that benefits "us" the most usually involves acting a bad guy.

>>149812097
Teleportation is probably also above the third tier.
>>149812243
lvl 40 treated as a walking disaster in the NW. Any encounter that lvl 63 can't brute force with both the hands tied behind the back is a hard encounter.

>>149798908
It's true though.

>>149812480
This.

The big thing that causes Ainz to act evil is his racial lack of empathy (which quickly erases any crippling guilt over slaughtering thousands) and being a pushover who'll try to please anyone he talks to while having Albedo and Demiurge (who are both super fucking evil) as advisors.

>>149812504
Teleportation is a 6th tier spell, Dimensional Move is probably 4th tier.

>>149812540
No, the biggest reason is because the few times he's acted evil, he's had personal reasons for doing it or other justifications that push it into Neutral->Evil territory.
Clementine's death and the Workers are the only Evil acts (both were done out of hatred more than anything else). The killing of the children is a reflection of his Neutral nature, in that releasing them would hurt Nazarick too much but he doesn't want suffering if it can be avoided, as is Lizardmen (Neutral means "us first", everyone else be damned; Evil generally means "me first"), while the slaughter of the peasants is both Neutral and Evil (Neutral because it served a purpose, Evil because a large part of it seemed to be him being giddy over summoning a record breaking number of goats)

When you think about it, Ainz's ultimate goal of brining his friends to the New World is heinous from a NWer perspective.

There are 40 beings just as powerful as Ainz, and his goal is to bring them into the NW. That's scary shit.

>>149812433
>"10 seconds for the rest of you"

>>149812657
Ainz is what we generally call a pagan deity.

>>149800478
Oh boy. I wonder how many lives are ensuing famine will take.

>>149811728
You need to fuck off these threads Jew Press-kun.
If you really did read Sky vol2 and failed to noticed how Kajit addressed Clementine - you're retarded.

>>149809402
>>149809825
>>149809932
>>149810204
>Skeletal Dragons
Yeah, I suppose you're right.
EE would be to occupied with Dragons and caster fire to support Gagaran.
Clem has a knack against bulky armored opponents so I guess Gagaran would be fucked by the time EE is done with Kajit and co.

>>149812805
A couple hundred thousand at most I'm guessing before Albedo swoops in with le grain stocks.

>>149812847
Clementine is straight up stronger than Gazef, with or without compatibility into account. Gagaran isn't Gazef tier, she's slightly weaker. Clementine is actually just that monstrously strong compared to Blue Rose besides EE.

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Can anyone point me to where Tsuare appears on the WN?

>>149812504
>>149812600
>Teleportation
>6th tier
I thought at some point we saw some NWer internal monologue which could be summarized as
>One could train either as a warrior or a mage
>Training in both was rare and required talent
>A battle-trained mage with teleport spell
>Is better than half-baked attack spell

>>149812890
Narberal gets behind Khajit with the equivalent of Dimension Door, not actually Teleportation. I imagine Khajit was referring to Dimensional Move.
Teleportation is a known spell though since Fluder refers to it and knows it.

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>>149812504
>Any encounter that lvl 63 can't brute force with both the hands tied
Anon Skeletal Dragons are ~30lvl.
And they had a heal\support caster behind them.
Narberal is not a battlemage as in battlemage: she only have 1 level in warrior to allow wearing armor.
Her Phy Atk is lowest in all Pleiades.
Fucking Hamsuke estimated to be stronger than her in melee.
You can't expect her to win against 2 ~30lvl opponents + support in melee.

>>149812915
Narb only uses Teleportation after she was ordered to reveal her full power.

Khazit just thinks it's Dimensional Move because he can't fathom anyone besides Fluder being able to cast Teleportation.

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>>149812657
>Ainz's ultimate goal of brining his friends to the New World
>bringing
Fucking how?
Where did you pick that up?
He thought about finding them in NW if they are here, not bringing them from somewhere.
He's not 100% about nature of this world either.

>>149812937
I doubt she used Teleportation instead of Dimension Move because Teleportation has a chance of failure or arriving off target even if you can see the target while Dimensional Move is guaranteed on-target, just with limited range.

>>149812933
She almost fucking two-shot a Skeletal Dragon with a sheathed sword, without her gear.

>>149812983
Except she explicitly says "Teleportation" when casting the spell in mid-air.

>>149812933
BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT HAMSUKE

>>149812983
>two-shot a Skeletal Dragon
Well in LN the fight was not so one-sided.
Narberal described to fight dragons to a stalemate until order from Ainz came through.
She couldn't get through them to finish off Kajit and he could heal them probably even with Pearl energy exhausted.

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>>149813026
You have any of those pinky twit picks with Hamsuke?

>>149813032
She crushed the fuck out of the sole Skeletal Dragon, it only survived because Khazit was healing it nonstop and buffing it. Even then she still had the advantage.

It was only when the second Skeletal Dragon showed up that she started having trouble.

So I read Volume 6 for the first time and EE is a QT. I'm hardly a shipper fag but that monologue gave me beetus.

Also, it looks like nobody in Nazarick is aware EE is a vampire? Ainz calls her a "sorcerer girl", so he seems fooled by her ring.

Jaldabaoth was perfect cover for Nazawrecking the Eight Fingers. It's almost a D&D staple, some idiot finds some demonic idol and summons powerful demons to their realm, and the demons are searching for that idol as a way to control their ability to go to and from dimensions. Did Demi end up leaving the 6-arm statue or the 3-arm one Ainz gave him?

Also, Jerky was surprisingly likeable in Volume 9. From the summaries I thought he was going to be an ass. Makes me sad he gets addicted to pots.

>>149812933
>You can't expect her to win against 2 ~30lvl opponents + support in melee.
That's my point exatcly. Two lvl 30 monsters with magic immunity and dedicated healer are extremely hard encounter by the NW standards.
>Fucking Hamsuke estimated to be stronger than her in melee.
Do you realize that Hamuske is actually natural-born killing machine?
Nice chart.
>>149812853
>grain stocks
Hm. What about the meat stocks for the Demiurge's happy farm?

>>149813148
>stocks from the
fix

>>149813090
>second Skeletal Dragon
That's what I said.
>>149813095
>Demi
>Statue
Ainz awarded him the prototype satue Ulbert made.
Since it's his creator stuff - he was delighted.
>Jerky
Who?

>>149813148
>Hamuske is actually natural-born killing machine
It's a giant fucking hamster.
Sure it's said to be capable of wrecking Gazef shit w\o treasures, but it's still a NWer.
Useful for comparison.

>>149813013
No she doesn't, she explicitly says Teleportation when moving to midair.

>>149813197
Hamsters and Rabbits are both fluffy and cute but are fucking brutal in fights.

>>149813095
Narb seems to have picked up on it; she called EE an oversized mosquito. Of course, she calls all non-nazarickians various kinds of inferior lifeforms.

Most likely Demi left the 3-armed prototype, because the 6-armed one is dearer to him and Ainz was pushing him to leave the embarrassing prototype behind.

Also, the problem with JUSTniv is that he's called the Headcanon Emperor on the CN forums, because he goes full paranoid about Nazarick and mindbreaks himself.

>>149813207
You're right, she explicitly casts Dimensional Move to get behind him. I must have mistaken the Teleportation from earlier.

>>149813166

Jircniv

Re Estize found a statue in one of the Eight Finger warehouses, I want to know if it was the 6-armed one or the 3-armed one. Ainz initially offered the 3-armed one to Demi not as a reward but a replacement so Demi didn't have to give up the 6-armed one.

>>149813246
>Also, the problem with JUSTniv is that he's called the Headcanon Emperor on the CN forums, because he goes full paranoid about Nazarick and mindbreaks himself.
Kek I saw that
Jircniv is probably the biggest and longest-lasting case of self-destruction I've ever seen in an LN

>>149813197
>It's a giant fucking hamster.
It's a sentient monster that looks like a giant fucking hamster. You can't scale something up this much and expect it to work.
Probably some bio-construct.

>>149813279
The sad thing is that he really wanted to be a good Empra but then he ran into the outside context problem that was Ainz.

>>149813223
>Hamsters
>brutal in fight

/blog alert/
You don't need to tell me about that.
Fuckers removed 1.5kilo cast iron dummy that separated their parts of the cage and proceed to maul the shit out of each other.
For a creatures the size of my palm there was sure a lot of blood splatters in the cage and all around it.
I had to glue pieces of flesh back on them with medical glue.
Both survived and lived for another two years.

>>149813197
>It's a giant fucking hamster.
A hamster that can rip a level30~ warrior's face half open with its tail.

>>149813246
>>Narb seems to have picked up on it; she called EE an oversized mosquito.

Damn, I missed that. I did catch that Narb also deduced EE was crushing on Momon even though Ainz was as dense as a romcom lead.

I can't tell if Narb = retarded is a meme at this point or not. She does seem to have a head on her shoulders, but there are a lot of inconsistencies like with her name autism.

>>149813261
IDK which one ended up in Demi hands.
I think he had to hand over the 6-arm one to the Kingdom authorities.
Demi would be more happy with the 3-arms prototype as something more intimate to his creator anyway.

>>149813298
How vicious are >rabbits?

>>149813311
Narb seems to be the stereotypical high INT low WIS low CHA; she can't read the situation and is as abrasive as sandpaper, but has an analytical mind.

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>>149813279
>>149813297
Jircniv will give up and give in to Ainz charms just as Ainzach and beards did.

>>149813284
>some bio-construct
Well I gave her credit for being stronger than Gazef.

>>149813318
Rabbits can (and will) bite a hole through your hand if you threaten them too much.
Also they regularly kill each other for whatever reason. Don't put two unneutered bucks near a doe, whether or not the doe has been neutered.

>>149813317
It's more the opposite, because he received the 6-armed statue from Ulbert personally, while the 3-armed one was not only second-hand, but something Ainz said Ulbert would prefer to get rid of.

>>149813355
What sounds do rabbits make? I know >rabbits go -arinsu~

>>149813279
I kekked long and hard when Ainz came into the "secret" meeting room and said, "Oh shit waddup!" in front of JUSTniv's prospective allies.

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>>149813311
She call everyone outside of Nazarick insects names anon.

>>149792928
A war that he deliberately engineered against a nation where he had the reputation of a hero (not just his momo persona, he could have gotten Gazeff's help to be recognized at the time).

To put things into perspective it would be like if someone like Achilles or Hercules convinced a foreign power to invade one of the states where he is or could have been known as a hero.

The war could easily have been avoided in these simple steps :

>use gazeff as a contact to become known as a hero for saving the village
>leverage the fame and power to do whatever in the kingdom
>the next time the empire comes calling, beat the shit out of them with gazeff and become even more famous
>tell demiurge to get rid of the corrupt nobles
>can do pretty much whatever reforms he wants behind the scenes through his influence
>get to dictate surrender terms to the empire if he really, relaly wants more money or whatever

Instead, what did he do?

>fail to capitalize on the village saving incident
>basically totally ignore the fact he got a local hero as a contact (if this was a tabletop RPG, the DM would be facepalming)
>ally with the empire, universally seen as the bad guy in this part of the world
>deliberately make himself look to be evil because he is too lazy to travel around the new world spamming messages to players
>make himself look even more evil by killing Gazeff
>make the whole world think he is the stereotypical lich out for world conquest
>if any other players show up, all they are going to hear is about how he started a war, killed a local hero and slaughtered thousands of people to claim his own city
>very high chance that mos to fthem, even former allies, would become his enemies because they will assume he really has turned into an evil lich after being transported to the new world

Anyone who has played a MMORPG knows how dumb player politics are and how easy it is for former allies to turn against you based on nothing more than a rumour,

>>149812814
The fuck are you talking about, Kajit doesn't say shit about who is Clementine inside Zuranon.

>>149813297

The thing is, the Empire is probably the luckiest of the 3 states in the area. Re Estize has fucking collapse and ST is going to kingdom come once Ainz realizes they were the ones who brainwashed Shalltear. Holy Kingdom is going to be raped to death in Volume 12.

The Empire at least still exists, and Nazarick is mostly hands-off with it. Jircniv just needs to recover from his PTSD.

>>149793996
>lizards
>the race that he cowed through power after starting an unnecessary war and threatening to genocide them

>building social connections and alliances

Hahahaha oh wow. That's like saying the american colonists were building social connections with the native americans whom they infected with small pox and tried to genocide on multiple occasions.

>>149813467
>Gazef actually DID warn them - but all the nobles laughed at him
>the nobles all scorned Ainz and wanted him arrested
>there's no particular stigma assigned to the Empire in the NW
>if any other players show up, they'll encounter the Sorcerous Kingdom, which is a part of international politics and thus it will be much harder to move against them (read v11).

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>>149813481
>“Well, anyone who hasn’t seen that power would think so~ Well then, let’s get down to business, Khazit Dale Badantel — are you willing to help me out as a fellow member of the Twelve Executives?”
Wash your fucking eyes with a soap.

>>149813467

You're under the assumption Re Estize is a kingdom worth anything to Nazarick. Now, I agree with you, Ainz is becoming more evil and less neutral as he becomes more lich-like, but Re Estize is literally worthless to Nazarick now so to keep it around is pure one-sided sentiment.

>>149813572
That is said by Clem, and you should wash yours because that's the line I was talking about in my original message.

>>149813362
They sneeze when they're kind of pissed, if they're happy they can do this weird purr or "gruh grunt, sometimes a tongue click too.
If they're pissed they can growl at you and if they're slightly ticked / worried they can thump their feet.
That's pretty much it.

>>149813467
>To put things into perspective it would be like if someone like Achilles or Hercules convinced a foreign power to invade one of the states where he is or could have been known as a hero.
Heracles was a massive asshole when he wanted to be and Achilles isn't really heroic by any stretch of the term.

>local hero as a contact
He didn't need to do that.
>reforms
Why would he give a shit about reforms
>beat the shit out of them
Ainz was scouting to find the most useful allies and most useful enemies. He decided it was the Kingdom as an enemy.

>village saving incident
He was laying low
>universally seen as the bad guy
The Empire is only viewed with emnity by the Kingdom's nobles, the peasants don't actually care either way as long as they're getting fed.
>too lazy to travel
It's too risky to do that you idiot, those players are not necessarily friendly and the war was Jircniv's idea to begin with.
>killing Gazef
Because Gazef insisted on fighting and Ainz wanted to honor his wishes?
>stereotypical lich out for world conquest
Which is why he keeps trying to provide for E-Rantel right

See >>149813517.

>>149813513
Lizards aren't 'cowed', they literally worship him as the closest thing to the divine they've ever had.

>>149813513
Where are the native americans are now and where are the lizarcs?
Did you not read the fucking LN?
Lizards were on the werge of waging a war simply to decimate the population to avoid famine.
They are now more prosperous and united as ever and Ainz resurrected outstanding individuals among them.
That tribe lizard in vol11, it probably died on the battlefield in vol4 too.

>>149795862
Literally what for? Ainz can easily create low level undead to make more potions than those two.

>>149813596
You was spouting shit about this information not being in Sky translations whatsoever.
Sure, Clem said that, on that you have a point.

>>149813618
>They sneeze when they're kind of pissed
I meant as in disgusted, sometimes if you put 'gross' food next to them they'll repeatedly sneeze at it.

>>149813628
But that's wrong because making Potions needs Ygg ingredients which he doesn't know are obtainable. He's simply hoping that Nifrea can make red pots or at least improved pots using native (read: renewable) resources.

>>149813467
Kingdom is corrupt and ineffective.
>make himself look to be evil
Hm. Undead.
>make himself look even more evil by killing Gazeff
One on one duel.
>make the whole world think he is the stereotypical lich out for world conquest
Are you high or something?

>>149813586
It's a huge pool for Adventurers recruitment anon.

>>149813396

Yeah, but this is fiction/writing, so I can't help but see the choice of "mosquito" as more than a coincidence.

It's like how the Pokeshippers deny the Ash x Serena mouth kiss happened because of the airliner easter egg. That easter egg wasn't a coincidence!

>>149813517
gazeff warning them is irrelevant, people warned others about hitler

There is a huge stigma associated against the empire in the kingdom. Which is that part of the world.


If any other players show up they will hear all about ainz massacreeing thousands of people and how everyone is seeking ways to fight Ainz. The only place where they will hear anything good about Ainz is in Ainz's own areas which won't be considered a credible source.

If you got transported to fantasy europe and everyone is telling you about how terrible fantasy hitler is except the people living in fantasy germany, what would you think?

Infact, this seems like the typical isekai hero vs demon king scenario. I wonder if theres an isekai story where the hero fights the demon king only to discover that he was an autist who didnt realise that killing lots of people was a bad thing to do.

>>149813660

The KINGDOM/political institution has nothing to do with the potential adventurer talent, otherwise you should fault Ainz for massacring the army from which this talent could be called from.

Ainz also is expanding the Adventurer Role from El Rantel, so he's going to deepen his scouting for adventurer talent anyway. Re Estize was not necessary for that at all.

>>149813660
Yes, and so is the Empire, which is also more well-run and therefore easier to keep intact while being taken over as a vassal state and a more valuable ally with more valuable experienced persons that he's met (he thinks JUST is friendly with him for some reason for example).
It's far easier for him to just wipe the Kingdom outright and start from scratch than trying to fix the rotten hellhole it is right now.

>>149813713
>ainz massacreeing thousands of people
That was a fucking war.
How are you still not clear on this point?
He allied with Baharuth Empire and participated in the battle among their ranks.
Emperror Jircniv personally asked him to open the battle with most powerful spell he's capable of.
Most people in ST and Empire are aware that Jircniv did that hence half the reason for his balding and hp potions addiction.
Ainz announced founding of a nation and stated his demands.
They were rejected and met with an army.
This is a formal declaration of war.
Nobody will denounce him for that.

>>149813713

Does Ainz care about other players liking him? I've not gotten a single sense from the novel he wants to befriend potential other players in the NW.

He only considers them because they can be threats to things important to him, like Shalltear. The only players he wants are his old friends back.

If anything, Ainz would be most comfortable knowing all the other players in the NW are dead, as they are no longer threats to him.

>>149813713
Funny you should use Hitler as an example here, because Hitler literally did nothing wrong.

>this thread
>all those ainz fanbois insisting that what he did was totally smart and not evil
>mfw when they would change their tune very quickly if they got abducted by the secret police in some third world shithole and were getting raped endlessly to make snuff films

>>149813714
What do you mean "have nothing to do"?
He already goes along Demiurge plan for world domination.
The end goal is to bring all nations under SKAOG banner one way or the other.
Kindom being most populous nation in the vicinity of Nazarick is just a bonus.

>>149813713
>in the Kingdom
Haha no, there's no stigma anywhere. The Empire is simply an enemy of the Kingdom, that's not really a stigma, and the peasantry have no strong loyalty to the Kingdom while the nobility don't seem to have any strong feeling towards the Empire period; the Royal faction doesn't hate the Empire, they just view them as enemies, while nobody knows what Renner is up to.
>massacring thousands of people
War means people die, what they'll hear is "an army of 200k got utterly crushed by a single magic caster who then created a surprisingly peaceful and prosperous city for his subjects and allied with local heroes and local guilds to seek compromise".

>other players
He views other players as a threat more than anything else.

>>149813755
He only views players as threats. He would honestly rather kill them to wrap up loose ends.

>>149813716
>so is the Empire
Kingdom is much more populated though.
It's what, 10-20 millions?
It's fucking huge compared to medieval Europe.
>It's far easier for him to just wipe the Kingdom outright
Renner will handle the bothersome matters for him.
With some resources allocated to her - she can do it.

>>149813771
That's not relevant, that's like saying "oh yeah I bet the people who died during Changping didn't think Bai Qi was an amazing general worthy of respect".

>>149813716
>It's far easier for him to just wipe the Kingdom outright and start from scratch than trying to fix the rotten hellhole it is right now.

This is a good point that I forgot all about. Even with the Eight Fingers under his command (and Renner under Demi), Ainz had a lot of trouble gleaning information out of Re Estize. Really, the groundwork for destroying the kingdom was set when Ainz fed the Eight Fingers to Solution. He had lost patience with Re Estize when more subtle methods of infiltration failed.

>>149813626
>its totally okay to start a war guise

Yea and the native americans warred among themselves a lot too, the american colonists who "civilized" them were heroes even if they had to do it through the use of force.

I mean, if not for the colonists, the native americans would still be living in huts and killing each other with bows and spears so they did a good thing, right? All that genocide and small pox was really for their own good!

>thank god i have yet to meet someone in college who is dumb enough to make this argument in class

>>149813755
>>149813787
>I've not gotten a single sense from the novel he wants to befriend potential other players
>He only views players as threats
He literally always spergs about having a casus belli to justify his actions in case Player show up.
He also warned NPC against unnecessary cruelty towards NWers on the same basis.

>>149813618
>Which is why he keeps trying to provide for E-Rantel right

>Hitler tries to provide for Germany
>is universaly reviled despite doing so

Gee i wonder why. Maybe it's because people remember rulers more for their wars then their domestic infrastructure programs?

Protip : Go look at your elementary school level textbooks again, you will notice that dictators which improved the life of their people are still remembered mostly by the wars they waged rather than impoving the quality of life.

Or you know, just look at Putin, lots of Russians loved him because he improved their economy, but most of the world thinks hes a shitty dictator.

>>149813834
That's mainly to disperse the unity of the players. If he can justify everything he does and backs it up with a happy and prosperous nation, it will sap the will of other players to band together against him. He can defeat single players (unless they have one of the Twenty) with ease. And once those players are defeated, the others who did not attack him will go "shit, we shouldn't fuck with the Sorcerer King who will leave us alone but will kill us if we try anything".

All this is to keep them from ganging up on him, which is very likely if he went with the stereotypical Demon Lord scenario.

>>149813804
It's 8 million people, btw.

>>149813884
You can blame the media for that.

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>>149813824
> the native Americans would still be living in huts and killing each other with bows and spears
We'll never know.
> warred among themselves a lot too
Lizards fucking ate each other at that point.
>its totally okay to start a war guise
If you're new and want to enter political arena - there is no other way dumb nations like the Kingdom would take you seriously.
Even Jircniv and ST came to treat SKAOG with respect only after it's military power was demonstrated one way or the other.
>US without air-carrier fleet having any political weight

Also I don't get what you're going at.
You want us to denounce Ainz for his evil deeds or what?
Go shun IRL politicians anon, it's fantasy and we like that skeleton.

>>149813804
>much more populated though
Source? 10-20 million is 'huge' compared to medieval Europe but that means shit, Persia held twice that number in BC eras while Han China had almost 50 million people around before the Three Kingdoms period.
And just because he takes over the Kingdom doesn't mean he kills everyone in it, or anyone in it really, considering Empire.

>>149813811
Remember too that the Kingdom showed open hostility to someone he vowed to protect and a group loyal to the Kingdom attacked Entoma. The Empire failed to actually antagonize Ainz in any way, he simply changed targets for alliance.

>>149813824
The Lizards canonically view Ainz as a divine being and worship him and are loyal to him not out of pure fear but genuine respect and awe with a healthy dose of fear, case closed.

>>149813884
Protip: E-Rantel canonically becomes a peaceful and prosperous city.
Protip: Putin is reviled mainly because he hurts the interests of world leaders, within Russia he is beloved.
Protip: Elementary school textbooks are "elementary" for a reason.
Protip: Julius Caesar is not reviled despite going full genocide on people he conquered.
Protip: The Gauls loved Rome and were Romans 100 years after being conquered
Protip: E-Rantel has already begun to soften up to Ainz and people who meet him generally begin to respect him.
Protip: Ainz lives forever and is almost literally almighty. Given one or two generations people will normalize under his rule - see the Gauls.

>>149813775
>The end goal is to bring all nations under SKAOG banner one way or the other.

That's a bastardization of his goal. He wants to create a kingdom where "all races can live in harmony". That goal doesn't include specifics like kingdoms, theocracies or empires.

Nazarick will crush anything that stands in its way of this goal, be it commoner or country.

>>149813884
>Putin
>Improving economy
Anon economy going to shit following the oil price dive.
He ain't done shit for us here except showered in oil money rain until it ran out.
Now they confiscating all of our pensions to pay for Syria and Crimea.
1/3 of population lives below poverty and 1/5 don't have access to electicity
So no, not all dictators improve infrastructure of their country.

>>149813948
>Nazarick will crush anything that stands in its way of this goal, be it commoner or country.
Just like every other nation in its history. That's how international politics works, you have goals, you have people whose interests align with your goals, and you have people who refuse to cooperate with your goals and will be removed.
Nazarick has demonstrated that it's willing to negotiate as long as you aren't hostile to its unity or to the core of Nazarick itself, the NPCs.
The Quagoa case was entirely out of Ainz' hands, Aura was really fucking eager to massacre them for some reason.

>>149813988
>he ain't done shit for us
>1/3, 1/5
Nigger do you not remember 90s Russia

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>>149813902
>happy and prosperous nation
He wants to make AOG eternal legend.
Preferably a good one, but occasional bloody stains on it's history are unavoidable.

>>149813941
Don't forget that Ainz is literally worshipped as a god by the people of Carne, and probably by all the pioneer villages he helped establish with the paupers from E-Rantel.

>>149813988
Would you prefer communism?

>>149813991
That seemed to be more Shalltear; she was eager to carry out Ainz's commands and indulge her bloodlust too.

>>149813804
>Renner will handle the bothersome matters for him.
>With some resources allocated to her - she can do it.
Yeah but why bother when just taking it over is easier?

>>149814015
>That seemed to be more Shalltear; she was eager to carry out Ainz's commands and indulge her bloodlust too.
No, read it again, Aura is the one egging Shalltear on and Shalltear just said 'oh okay, Aura you probably know better'

>communism
Not him but Stalin actually got shit turning very quickly, everything else he did aside.

>>149813941
>Source
ST priest talked about how Kingdom has huge population and is situated on fertile, safe lands?
>takes over the Kingdom doesn't mean he kills everyone in it
That's what I said.

>>149813884

Well in the case of Putin/Castro, it's more like the poor who had shitty lives and had their standard of living improved liked him more.

The people who are most at odds with Putin/Castro are intellectuals (who want expanded freedoms) or the ambitious, who want to be rich. Most Cubans who flee Cuba do so because they desire the wealth/power that comes with capitalism in the US. Most Cubans thus in Florida are rich Republican douchebags. Putin also eliminated the oligarchs who emerged after the USSR collapsed.

Basically if you are smart, rich and or powerful, you tend to dislike dictators who benefit the poor and stupid most of all.

>>149814060
Yeah but what do you mean then? If he doesn't kill the people in it it doesn't matter who he allies with first, he's going to vassalize or conquer everyone in due time.

>>149814068
Intellectuals actually tend to be split rather evenly on dictators, the problem is that dictators tend to attack intellectuals for whatever reason. Historically people like Qin enjoyed support from the intellectuals...that they didn't persecute.

>>149814028
Why bother what?
He doesn't want to rule over a pile of ruins and it's better to have a country intact.
You don't need to piece it back together if some government remain intact.
Renner will handle it for Ainz.

>JUST removed all the nobles' statuses and power and even killed some to make his point clear. He's leading the Empire with fear and only then the Empire has progressed.
>ST is treating other species like shit.
>Kingdom's nobles don't fuckin' care whatever happens to peasants as long as they keep getting tax money for their decadence.
I don't understand why some of you are trying so hard to denounce Ainz while all the other humie leaders are also doing the same shit and even worse.

>>149814135
> If he doesn't kill the people in it it
> Yes, and so is the Empire
There was a plan to vassalize Empire as well but JUST just beat Ainz to it.
Remember how Ainz was shocked after the Arena encounter?
He planned to make a move on Empire first.

>>149814148
90s Russia had bread lines literally everywhere. It doesn't matter what Putin "had", the fact is you're incredibly better off whether you look at photos or statistics.

>>149814160
He doesn't need to rule over a pile of ruins to clean up act but the nobles have reached terminal incompetence. If you actually look at his current plan as far as I can tell it's basically Carne on a country-wide scale, he's the messiah saving them from Starvation.
--Ten Thousand Years.

>>149814173
JUST is making shit move, he's the very picture of a hyper-competent benevolent dictator.

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>>149814173
>Denounce Ainz
>I don't understand
It's easy: they voted for her and can't do shit about it now.
So they complain here.
How can we be so stupid to side with horrible dictator.

>>149814212
>messiah saving them from Starvation
I think he'll have Renner plea for help to SKAOG.
She's more suited for the role.

>>149814045
Oh yeah, Aura was doing the talking.

I figure she wanted to throw Shalltear a bone and also because killing them would cut down on processing surrenders.

>>149814233
>they voted for her and can't do shit about it now.
I don't get this part. Is it about Arche...?

>>149814259
>is fucking dumb
It isn't because he's the leader during that time period and therefore must be credited. You could argue Obama was just unlucky to get an economic downturn but that doesn't mean shit because others are recovering.

>>149814268
Yeah, and then Ainz will deliver with supply-train-fulls of bread and fresh water, making Renner the princess who requested aid when everyone else was too proud or scared and Ainz the powerful but benevolent ruler who has graciously tapped into his own reserves to save the people.
Both of them win.

>>149814135

>Intellectuals actually tend to be split rather evenly on dictators,

t. no-sources

Intellectuals are almost always persecuted by totalitarian governments for the simple reason that they aren't dumb enough to ordered around. That's why pretty much all totalitarian countries are behind on the technological scale compared to non-totalitarian countries (because that's where people like Einstein go when they are being persecuted).

>>149813771
>what he did
Care to elaborate?

>>149794710
>>149794564
>is one of the strongest casters to have ever existed
Ainz is a very weak spellcaster compared to Yggdrassil players. Ainz however has a FUCKLOADS of utility.

Ainz wanted to genocide the lizards and resurrect them as undead. I don't see how anyone can see this as something a NEUTRAL alignment would support. He only changed his mind after seeing how impressive the living lizardmen were in combat, which would provide better value than wasting their corpses on mindless undead. The end result is the lizardman became servants of Nazarick, but Ainz promised to not enslave them.

By contrast, Ainz had no interest in the Quagoa, who were less impressive than the dwarves or even lizardmen, but he didn't want to drive the whole race to extinction. So instead, Shalltear slaughted 80% of their race and enslaved the survivors.

Either case is unquestionably evil.

>>149814315
>what is Nazi Germany
>what is the USSR

>>149814297
>A civil war will break out led by new philip-faction against oppressive noble and royal family.
>Renner will join the new faction and ask SKAOG for military help once again.
>With an internal faction requesting support no one can blame SKAOG for invading the Kingdom.

>>149814346
Wrong. He didn't care about the Lizardmen, he only spared them when Cocytus pleaded for their lives. At that point he decided not to kill them because he wanted to reward Cocytus' initiative.

Also, he's efficient, not good.

>>149814315
t. no sources
I just gave an example, Qin enjoyed praise from people who supported his policies but harsh criticism from those who were persecuted by him (Confucianists and Legalists were diametrically opposed).
Totalitarian governments don't persecute intellectuals unless said intellectuals keep prodding at the government and policies, which isn't any different in non-totalitarian governments hence conservatives being lashed for being 'bigots' whether or not they have a point.

>behind on the technological scale
Patently false when you consider relative starting positions and when you consider that there are many non-totalitarian regimes which are fucking shitholes and many historical totalitarian regimes which enjoyed technological superiority over everyone else.

>>149814344
>very weak spellcaster
Bullshit, he's upper middle tier and Ulbert said his build is actually incredibly strong so Ainz is probably underestimating himself.

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>>149814297
>Both of them win.
>Climb leashed to the wall
>Used for eye staring 24/7

>>149814407
> Ulbert said his build is actually incredibly strong
Ulbert probably had secret fap-altar of the man.
Not most credible source.

>>149814407
In terms of pure DAKKA Ainz is weak.
However Ainz is pure utility so he can usually adapt to any situation.

>>149814379
>Ainz pats himself on the back for a job well done
>suddenly, Demiurge and Albedo walk in
>start praising Ainz for outsmarting the princess and being 3 steps ahead of everyone else with his hidden plans
>internal panic intensifies when, as usual, there are no hidden plans

>>149814346
Anon evil is torturing lizards just for the sake of it.
Harvesting them for body parts and undead minions is neutral.
Can you not see that?
Indifference towards other's suffering is not evil, it's neutral.
Clem is evil, she enjoys torturing and killing people.
Ainz does not.

>>149814346
>Ainz wanted to genocide the lizards and resurrect them as undead. I don't see how anyone can see this as something a NEUTRAL alignment would support.
This is literally textbook Neutral. Neutral isn't just 'not really that good' and 'not really that bad'. Evil means you do cruel shit for the sake of cruelty or for reasons rooted in hatred. To Ainz, who views the Lizardmen as tools and is thinking about how to use them most effectively without waste, killing them and rezzing them as undead is perfectly logical and completely Neutral because he thinks they hold the most value that way.

>>149814391
He also realized that it might be a useful exercise in government for his subjects and later realized that it's a good starting point for project utopia.

>>149814451
Ulbert was the most powerful nuking mage in the entire guild, I'd say that his opinion on magic builds is pretty credible. Ainz has had a history of selling himself short after all.

>>149814477
He's not 'weak' though, he's just not top of the line like Ulbert or Tabula.

>>149813824
>the american colonists who "civilized" them were heroes even if they had to do it through the use of force
That will happen one way or the other when the strong nation will meet the weak, and these have-nots possess something valuable.
Total annihilation, cultural(slow path) or physical.
Native Americans are either irrelevant or gone.

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>>149814478
>>149814212

>>149814480
>>Harvesting them for body parts and undead minions is neutral

Let's pretend I'm a cannibal. So society should accept me for killing and cooking my neighbors, because I'm not evil, just hungry?

>it's this discussion again

Good - you help people because you can and it gives you a justice boner
Neutral - you help people or hurt people as it suits you and your goals
Evil - you hurt people because you can and it makes you wet

>>149814531
What society accepts is irrelevant, a cannibal isn't Evil by DnD's terms, he might be Chaotic but he's not Evil.
Killing and cooking your neighbors is actually not evil if it was because you were hungry. If you killed, cooked, and ate your neighbors because you didn't like the faggot, THAT is Evil.

>>149814531
Except that these are animals you're killing, not people.

>>149814531
>society should accept
What is this mental gymnastics?
Go back to tumblr with that.
We talk D&D alignment here.
Evil enjoys sufferings of others.
Neutral does not care about it, only it's own agenda.
Good enjoy helping others.
This >>149814560

>>149814562
It doesn't even matter if they're animals or people, a cannibal is a savage but he is not Evil.

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>>149814560
>inb4

>>149814531
>So society should accept me for killing and cooking my neighbors
Maybe? I mean, cannibalistic societies exist.

>>149814582
What does that have to do with anything?

>>149814579
True. It's taboo, but it's not evil.

>>149814643
Well Taboo is basically defacto Evil in real life, but DnD's alignment system is pretty clear that evil means malice, good means benevolence, neutral means not much or none of either.

>>149814663
No, it's not evil IRL.
People with mental illness can kill others out of curiosity.
They're dangerous to society and therefore should be isolated, exiled or put down.
You can't call evil something that does not have malicious intent behind it.

>>149814663
I think it's mainly because most Evil things tend to be ruled as taboo or illegal. Like, being a faggot here is illegal here, and my culture frowns on it, but it's not inherently harmful to anyone.

>>149814698
Well my point is that since 'evil' is a defined term and nobody agrees on it in real life, there's such a thing as 'de-facto' evil, which is basically just 'harmful to more people than it helps'.
Your thing is more like blue-and-orange morality which further muddies the water.
DnD has a set definition of 'evil' and there's no point in arguing it since it's a definition.

>>149814698
>it's not evil IRL
It actually is evil but that's the thing. It is evil for human beings. Not for any other species. There are dozens of species that perform cannibalism so its a very natural occurrence. For humans, morals/discipline and stuff comes in which makes it evil.

>>149814729
>harmful to more people than it helps
Nah, that's not evil IRL.
It's just what liberals call it.
>further muddies the water
What does?
>something that does not have malicious intent behind it is not evil
I thought I was clear enough.

>>149814771
Incest is taboo.
Pork is taboo for muslims.
World is full of retarded rules.
Should I consider all of them "evil" now?
If there is no hate or malice behind it - it's not evil.
Cannibal eating a human out of hunger is not evil.
He's just cannibal.
Shoot him if you must, but it's not evil anon.
Psychopath killing, fucking, burning, eating, burying a person over an argument for a parking space - that's evil.

>>149814821
Cannibal killing a human out of hunger is illegal. But eating human flesh isn't.

>>149814821
Easy there anon. I'm not that other guy, I'm simply stating the reason why moralfags consider cannibalism to be evil.

>>149814771
>It actually is evil
Cannibalism is evil? How? It's the same carbohydrates, fats, and protein which I consume on a daily basis.
You just claimed that eating is objectively evil.

>>149814560

This makes zero sense from a 3rd Edition D&D perspective. It seems like evil is now based around SUFFERING instead of SELFISHNESS. By your definition a totally selfish being is Neutral, instead of Evil like how it used to be.

Animals, defined as Neutral by default because they can't understand alignments, enjoy the suffering of others. Cats, dolphins, killer whales, enjoy torturing their prey before killing them, something sharks, insects, and spiders don't do.

What Ainz is doing, plundering others for his own gain, is evil in the D&D sense. It's definitely not neutral, but I don't understand this new age neutral ideology.

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>>149814852
>why moralfags consider cannibalism to be evil.
So that they would not feel "bad" if they ever need to shoot a cannibal.
This is a society's dilemma: there are rules in place.
You can't go around killing and eating people.
But you'll have to enforce this rules somehow.
And this involves breaking said rules by enforcers from time to time.
You now have a paradox.
To spare the conscience of those who ever need enforce these rules be it for a man in service or civillian - society generously includes cannibalism in "evil" category.
>Why'd you shoot the guy, you can't kill people, you're bad!
>He was evil
>Oh, okay then.

>>149814876
I didn't claim anything. I simply provided a reason for the way of thinking. See this >>149814852

>>149814902
Ah, ok. I misunderstood.

>>149814876

It's evil because, presumably, there are other options available and you know it's taboo before you go out and kill someone. I mean let's pretend it's not your neighbor but your relative. There are obvious moral event horizons you cross to be able to do something like that.

If we take the example of the Donner Party, where there was no choice but to eat others, most people would accept it.

But if you are a Solution Episilon, who enjoys killing, torturing and abusing humans, it's not hard to envision her as an evil, even if she's a slime and not a human.

>>149814925
I will not do it if other options are available, but merely because of the social stigma.
It's all the same: plants, some protein cocktail, mushrooms, chicken breasts, or human flesh.
We have this stigma simply because some sick fuck will surely start farming people for food otherwise.

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>>149814833
Where I live dealing with any human body parts without appropriate license is illegal.
Meaning that if you have a license and eat human meat obtained through it - you're abusing said license cuz there is no gourmet one.
If you don't have a license and eat human meat - you either bought human meat or obtained it yourself.
Obtaining human meat from the dead without proper paperwork e.g. medical studies or organ harvesting is illegal.
Obtaining human meat from the living is plain murder or extreme harm to health unless you buy a piece of liver or a kidney off someone to eat it.
In my country transactions with organs between individuals without medical necessity is not allowed.
What is left for a cannibal is to buy human meat, but purchasing it with prior knowledge of it's origin is illegal.
So the only way for a cannibal in my country to eat human meat is to ask illegal dealer for a chicken and hope that he will get a clue and sell you human meat.
Then you could say in court that you bought chicken.

>>149814771
>It actually is evil
But it isn't, because humans have committed ritual cannibalism as well as 'natural' cannibalism. Morals and Discipline have literally NOTHING to do with good and evil, because morality actually isn't global hence why some cultures had faggotry be a ridiculously heavy crime while others actively encouraged it (hello, Greeks who thought fucking a woman was being a wimp).

>>149814833
Cannibalism is not evil, neither is eating human flesh. Illegal / not Illegal isn't a judgement of good and evil, it's a judgement of how to preserve order and prosperity in a society.

>>149814821
>Psychopath killing, fucking, burning, eating, burying a person over an argument for a parking space - that's evil.
Actually, it's only evil in DnD terms on the condition that the psychopath killed the person out of hatred. If the psychopath killed the person with no other intent in his heart besides "dude this guy won't give me a parking space and I need a parking space".

>>149814885
DnD alignments have always been about intent, not suffering. Selfishness is simply one way of measuring intent, but it's more accurate when someone measures from selflessness.
Animals are neutral because they're assumed to be incapable of understanding the concepts of malice and benevolence hence they always act without either.
A man who helps people for no compensation but simply because "it is the right thing to do" is Good, and he is also selfless.
A man who helps people because he is promised due compensation is Neutral leaning good, not Good.
A man who hurts people because he is promised due compensation is Neutral leaning evil, not Evil.
A man who hurts people for no reason besides his own pleasure is Evil.

Killing a dread lich about to destroy the world is not necessarily Good. If you killed him because of hatred for him, that's Evil. If you killed him because you wanted to save the people who will suffer, that's Good. If you killed him because you didn't feel like having the world end on you, that's Neutral.
Someone who kills people en-masse but kills them because he geniunely thinks he's setting them free from the twisted cycle of reincarnation is Good in his own twisted manner, because he acts out of benevolence.

>>149814925
>It's evil because, presumably, there are other options available and you know it's taboo before you go out and kill someone. I mean let's pretend it's not your neighbor but your relative. There are obvious moral event horizons you cross to be able to do something like that.
It is not evil whether or not there are other options available to you because of intent, if you kill someone because you're hungry that's not evil.
There's the alternate system where killing anything that is sentient is an automatically evil act but that's a shitty system nobody uses because it'd make Paladins literally impossible to play. Knowing it's taboo isn't relevant, eating your relative also is not relevant. Intent is the key.

>>149815041
>"dude this guy won't give me a parking space and I need a parking space"
Nah, I have more of a "that fucker deserves to die for not giving me a parking spot" but I guess it's not very psychopathic.

>>149815077
Yeah well that's evil because it's killing someone out of hatred. My version is just killing a guy, not because he wants to or because he likes suffering or anything, but because he is there and in the way. That's edgy as fuck but it ain't actually evil.

>>149815003
>>149814925
>But if you are a Solution Episilon, who enjoys killing, torturing and abusing humans, it's not hard to envision her as an evil, even if she's a slime and not a human.
Oh, by the way, she is evil. The same way that human child is evil if he is killing, torturing and abusing the cat.

>>149815101
>That's edgy as fuck but it ain't actually evil.
You've got to be really edgy to do so without any ill will at all.

>>149815177
Children sometimes get the same treatment as animals.
Also, it still depends on why he's doing it. If it's just because he wants to see what happens without any true ill intent that's not evil.
>inb4 nobody is that stupid
Kids who are like 6-9 sometimes hang themselves just to "see what happens when you die."

>>149815218
He's a psychopath, that he views the world differently from normal people is given. For all we know he looks at the guy like we look at a leaf on our shirt. We remove it.

Gazeff would have defected to the Empire if not for his loyalty to Lanposa III.

Face it, Re-Estize is a shit country that NOBODY holds loyalty to. Why should Ainz, a conqueror, show such unique interest in keeping it around?

>>149815220
Point taken, substitute 'child' with a 'mentally mature, self-conscious individual.'

>>149815227
>a fucking leaf

>>149815177
>Oh, by the way, she is evil
Here we go, applying our moralities for different species!
We had a same discussion in Goblin Slayer thread.
Child torturing a cat is either a psychopath or does not realize the value of life and unpleasantness of pain.
In former case it's not evil because there is no malicious intent behind it: psychopaths usually do not harbor such emotions.
Child should be brought up with extra care or, if it fails, isolated.
There are examples of socialized psychopaths who had warm and caring childhood.
Bad one fucks them up for good.
In case of latter child should just be educated in value of life and matters of pain.
By firsthand example if necessary.
Normal child would be able to sympathize with other living beings after feeling a bit of pain itself.
So it's not evil either.

>>149815277
>lots of humans
>lots of potential adventurers

>>149815278
Then yeah, this is fucked up and evil.
He knows that cat is suffering, he knows the pain himself.
If he still enjoys that - that's evil.

>>149815287
>>149815278

>>149815312
>>149815311

>>149815101
>Yeah well that's evil because it's killing someone out of hatred
you got it backwards by legal standards. crimes of passion (murdering someone raping your wife) tend to get leaner sentences than killing in cold blood.

'evil' doesn't have a solid definition in the real world, but being 'good' generally just means being social. by some standards 'evil' is just not caring about social consequences in a way that harms others.

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>>149815350
>legal standards
It's cuz cold blood usually done for profit and a person realizing it works will likely to do that again.
Crime of passion suggests that a person have a consciense and emotions in the first place and will be eaten away by his guilt anyway.
Also it's an altered state of consciousness when you literally lose control over your actions and you can just count this as if another person did the killing.
Also
>Raping your wife
Good one

Pointless. All these talks about Ainz if he is evil or not. Should a king that rule a nation of monsters even care what other races fate are? They are like insects in his eyes. Besides,he live it a world where the strong devour the weak and those that think that they are strong must be broken till they submit or otherwise be destroyed.

For example:you see 10 wild dogs outside your house.You kill 9 of them. The other wild one you capture,fed him. In a week that dog would be the best damn loyal dog ever.
For Ainz most races outside are just like pets.If he like them,he will take them in and if he don't then just feed them to his people or use for his undead army. We humans see all other races either as food,pets or threat.Does that consider us to be evil?

>>149815287
>Here we go, applying our moralities for different species!
You're really stupid aren't you.
Solution Epsilon is explicitly said to know of pain and enjoy hearing the screams of people as they're eaten. She is a sadist and explicitly loves hurting people for her own enjoyment. She is therefore evil.

>different species
Is irrelevant. DnD's morality alignment has flaws but it very clearly lays down the grid.
Solution hurts people because she can and because she likes hurting people ergo she is evil.

>>149815299
Not him but he said 'country', not 'land'.

>>149815278
If we say 'mentally mature' excludes psychopaths who are able to kill and maim for apparently no real reason without feeling malice, then yeah that's pretty much evil.

>>149815350
That's because someone who kills out of passion is more predictable and more likely to not do it again and cause less disruption to society than a person who kills without ill intent because the latter demonstrates he's willing to kill someone while perfectly calm and rational, making him dangerous to society and stability.
Laws aren't meant to dish out Good and Evil, laws are meant to maintain order and general prosperity / stability for an entire society. It's the logic behind ancient laws which had different punishments for raping the Duchess and raping a servant (NOT slave), the first is not necessarily more evil than the second but it causes much more social disruption.

>>149815418
Learn to English
There isn't a discussion about whether or not Ainz is evil, because he very clearly isn't.

> Should a king that rule a nation of monsters even care what other races fate are?
This isn't relevant at all, because a ruler doesn't answer to morality but to the good of his nation, something common to all of history.

Re-Estize had an out to Nazarick without being totally destroyed. Nazarick pretended that it had prexisted the countries in the NW and was simply reclaiming its original territory. If Re-Estize acknowledged this, they could have handed over El Rantel without bloodshed even knowing it was bullshit.

But the Kingdom chose to fight and that's why it was destroyed.

>>149798908
Take a look at Libya some time anon. American empire is going strong

>>149815457
The King and the Nobility didn't actually make the wrong call there because just fucking handing over a city, and an extremely rich city, is retarded by the standards of any nation.
Gazef said 'yo he strong as fuck' but even then, how strong is strong as fuck? Two Gazefs at best, surely?
Handing over a city in that key position also makes it harder to resist the Empire's advance and furthermore would also weaken the Kingdom's prestige as a nation that just rolls the fuck over and hands over a city, even if it's justified - and in this case, it fucking isn't.
Ainz is an out of context problem, if you were told Putin had a new weapon system you wouldn't assume it's fucking Vegeta.

>>149815426
>If we say 'mentally mature' excludes psychopaths who are able to kill and maim for apparently no real reason without feeling malice, then yeah that's pretty much evil.
I think that true psychopath cannot be evil. But he probably will be dangerous to the society, so he must be either locked or put down.

>>149815496
In this case it's more like
Vercingetorix: Romans, surrender or I call out the champion army of the Gauls
Romans: ...okay like whatever?
Vercingetorix: Come out then, Navy Seals!

>>149815517
Why the fuck are you talking about legal theory when nobody is talking about laws but about good and evil?

>>149815496
Also, the King actually did trust Gazef - he sent Barbro to Carne for a simple af royal visit. If Barbro weren't a fucking idiot he would have gone there, won the goodwill of the people, and sat pretty while being guarded by 5000 elite troops.

Imagine for a moment that he HAD massacred the inhabitants of Carne Village, the Kingdom would be a parking lot.

>>149815541
Navy SEALs are still humans, I think nuclear-tipped Kalibr is more appropriate.

>>149815563
>Navy SEALs are still humans
Okay it's as if the champion of an MMA tournament was Hercules.