This is what super saiyan should have always been.

So you admit to being a furfag?

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>>149783762

>>149783749
It's what Super Saiyan God should have been, except golden without the magic clothes.

Saiyans are apes therefore a god of saiyans should have some ape features, instead of being a slim kaioken or a blue super saiyan.

I didn't like GT, but I did like how SS4 embodied the whole ape theme well. That aside, Goku pulled it off better than Vegeta with his shiny latex pecs and ridiculous mullet.

>>149783935
>shiny latex pecs
god damn it, pants.

>>149783935
That's what I mean, the SSJ4 design was fucking p e r f e c t in context and Toriyama fucked up by not using it.

>>149783749
Fucking love SSJ4 Goku.

>>149783749
Super Saiyan was a way to save time inking.

So is GT really as bad as people say it is or is it just butthurt DBZ fans circle-jerking?

>>149784835
Nah it's pretty bad. The fights have a fuckton of recycled animation loops and most of the villains are bland shit. The non-fighting "filler" is nice though and it has some good moments and Pan. It's really up to you whether you want to watch through all the mediocrity to get to the good parts.

>>149784835
I loved GT

Personally i thought it was a natural progression since things couldnt just get more "epic" you know, they kinda peaked on that. So things get more alien and weird instead, like what they do with Baby and stuff, it's awesome

>>149784835
GT can be slow at times and inconsistent as well. However most of the hate comes from few factors. "Its not from Toriyama" and Their "cartoon network" or equivalent didn't air GT when they were growing up. They instead got endless DBZ re-runs. Probably due to licensing issues. So they missed out and call GT shit because of that.

GT is more adventurish than Z or Super in regards that it manages to emulate the original DB series a bit. However most GT hates dont watch the original so that's that.

>>149784835
Baby arc was OK, kind of like Buu but body-possession instead of eating people. Him going ape was a good idea, conceptually.
Super 17 was alright too, they joke around with most of the old villains and iirc super 17 was kinda op and more or less gives up. It's been a long time though.
Dark Dragonballs were a good concept, but holy shit did it suck. All the dragons of the week were dogshit, made no sense, and bullshit the hell out of Goku. Omega was interesting as a final-boss but he wasn't that fun of a villain outside of deepthroating the balls.
If you have the time you could try to watch some of it.

>>149784835
I watched a bit of Dragonball when I was really young, DBZ growing up, and GT as an older teen. GT was my favourite.

>>149784989
I love original DB but found the beginning to be the worst part of the show. Felt like they were writing a generic cartoon with a "Moral of the Week" rather than Dragon Ball.

Your other argument is pretty weak. If the goodness of the show relies on you having to have watched it when you were a kid then it's probably not a good show.

>>149784835
It really is awful.

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>>149784835
GT is a better sequel to Z than Super is, but a worse show.

GT is still more like a fanfic than Super

like a lot more actually and thats saying something

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>>149783762
Funny you'd say that.

>>149783935
Agreed as well. Looks really good in motion, I love that it brought attention back to the tails. Looks fantastic in Xenoverse.

Golden SS4 is cool but the red one looks badass.

>>149784835
The show tries to emulate the original dragon ball and I appreciate that but it goes out the door once the baby arc starts. Making goku a kid was also a dumb idea since its just a huge miss opportunity with pan being his grand daughter and all. Baby is the only decent villian but still isn't anything special,super 17 was dumb as shit and the dark dragons were a great idea but executed terribly other than the fire one. SS4 is great though since it actually remembers what saiyans are and uses that as the ultimate power up. Its much more appropriate than a reskin super saiyan

GT wasn't bad in concept. Goku was already the most powerful being in the universe, so rather than create another Buu-like being, might as well lower the power levels a bit so it's like a New Game+ kind of thing. It worked perfectly with Pan because, being unable to go Super Saiyan, she only had a really strong base.

GT fucked up by making the villains either generic, or retreads of older ones. Baby was a regenerator (like Cell/Buu) who had a connection to the Saiyans. Super 17 involved the villains from Hell. Shenron involved an asspull for how the dragonballs actually generate wishes. None of the designs were good either.

Super is much more bland and uninteresting, but it has better fights. And Beerus is the best character introduced in either series.

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>>149784835
It's bad but /a/ made a meme out of it so now people don't admit it did anything right to try to fit in. I definitely think it's a lot better than super at this point.

But it's definitely not as good as DB/Z, in the end it's up to you to watch it. Fortunately the pacing is good, it's not stretched out like DB and the fights were pretty short. Super has more episodes than the entirety of GT at this point.

>tfw no SS4 girls ever.

>>149785327
>Super is much more bland and uninteresting, but it has better fights. And Beerus is the best character introduced in either series.
nailed it

>>149785248
>but a worse show.
How? Genuinely curious, why do you think that? It has better production values, animation, character design and after this last Super arc, I daresay it has better writing too in my opinion, S17 included.

>>149785366
Anon, making everything a cute girl won't make everything automatically better.

>>149785327

Eh...
It has bits of fights that are better, but overall? I wouldn't say that.

>And Beerus is the best character introduced in either series.
I don't like the extra lore they introduced, but character design wise and personality wise, Beer and Whiskey are really great, I love them. My problem is super has no idea what to do with them so they're mostly reduced to food jokes and nothing else. A real pity.

>>149785158
You're correct in assessing the second argument as such. The point is, dragonball as a whole series is aimed for children. When you watch the show as a child, its fun/good. This is what creates nostalgia. If people watched GT the same as they watched Z, then those "GT is shit" complainers would disappear for the most part. What you'd be left with is, "dragonball is shit" or "its for kids" comments.

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>>149785401
Well it's already good, and I happen to like the idea of girls turning into hairy screaming savages. Besides, cute girls don't make everything good, but they do make everything better, see SSG(red).

But we never even got official female SS.

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>>149784989
>>149785158
>>149785427

The "emulates DB" argument is used by both Superfags and GT fags, and neither is really right about it. GT definitely tried and even took a lot of ideas right out of it (crossdressing trunks), but fell short, and Super is tragically dumb. Goku acts stupider than he did when he was an 11 year old hermit, so the attempts at comedy mostly fall flat, save a few notable exceptions.

>>149785394
>production values, animation, character design
I wouldn't say better so much as different.
This isn't the 1990s-early 2000s, things look different now. It's just a fact. I've accepted that.
Unless your talking about the BoG and RoF arcs, those were shit by any standard.
>and after this last Super arc, I daresay it has better writing too in my opinion, S17 included.
The Baby and and Shadow Dragon arcs, I'd put them on par with Super thus far, but the Grand Tour and Super 17 arcs? No. And I like Super 17, mainly because I like the Androids, yet I admit his arc is pretty shit.

>>149785455
Maybe the multiverse tournament arc will have female SS.

>>149785522
I haven't seen Superfags comparing it to DB. Infact there's nothing in Super that relates to DB scene. Atleast in GT, there was the whole adventure saga where Goku as a child meets and fights other aliens/monsters/enemies, which is exactly how DB started off as. In the Super you have a God and Goku gains god powers, then he fights Gods.

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>>149785455
Nico>Note

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>>149785527
>I wouldn't say better so much as different.
I'd definitely say better. It's not a simple update, Super simply has worse animation and worse art, even if we disregard that nasty sterile CG look.

>those were shit by any standard.
But U6 was a goldmine of terrible fucking animation and art. For fuck's sake it gave us the Flash Shenlong. Sure, a small bit of the Hit fight looked good, but the vast majority of the rest didn't.

>The Baby and and Shadow Dragon arcs, I'd put them on par with Super thus far, but the Grand Tour and Super 17 arcs? No.
Well arguing writing quality is very subjective so I will respect your opinion, but in my opinion this last arc definitely beat even S17 in sheer terrible.

>>149785583
>I haven't seen Superfags comparing it to DB.
I don't know where you've been, it was the #1 deflection tactic for a while. "You just don't like it because it isn't edgy powerlevels I bet you didn't watch dragon ball" was pretty typical in arguments.
Made me pretty mad because it's terribly insulting towards DB.

>>149783749
Other than the crappy production, the thing I hated most about new Dragonball, is how scrawny looking every character are. 30 years of having solid built warriors and they turn them into skinny japanese male idols type characters like those god awful Final Fantasy characters.

>>149784835
It's not good but the noise mostly comes from massively butthurt DBZfags that didn't get what they wanted. Think Gohanfags.

>>149785268
>Italian
AY WHIS WHERE'S THE FOCKIN GABAGOOL OVA EYE

Why do people pretend to care about the ape shit?
It hasn't been relevant since Frieza and now out of no where people love praising SSJ4 for going back "to the roots"

It doesn't even make sense.
Why bother with shit like SSJ3 if you can just theoretically skip from 1 to 4 as long as you still have your tail?

It's a stupid form.
Good character design I guess, but you spergs only like it because "M-m-muh manly man! I can't stand a twink!" which isn't even a real complaint, just bitching about the tiniest thing you can find to bitch about

>>149785366
/thread

>>149785688
Who cares?
Do you watch Dragonball just to stare at the drawn muscles?

Go be autistic in a mech thread

>>149785861
>who cares about consistent character design and men who aren't increasingly effeminate?

>>149785366
>GT
>A lot better than Super

In what fucking way?
>Everybody is Goku's bitch
>Vegeta is Goku's bottom bitch that gets to fuse
>Goku is a kid because nostalgia
>Enemies have straight up no personality
Super 17 was trash
the Dragons were all trash
Baby was decent, but that was mainly because he had Vegeta. & even so it was just a redo of Majinn

There was nothing cool about GT you fucking Brazillian. It's not a "meme", it was bad. Straight up bad story telling.

Super at least keeps it interesting with new characters who actually fit in the story & new universe' to explain why power levels are just jumping all over the place and why SSJ3 doesn't just straight up mop the floor with the world

>>149785838
>Why bother with shit like SSJ3
You shouldn't, because SS3 is a piece of shit unless you're dead.

>>149785924
>In what fucking way?
In that every flaw that you listed pales in comparison to the list of flaws super has, really.

>to explain why power levels are just jumping all over the place
Hahahaha.

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They look the fucking same

>>149785838
You have to have enough power
You have to have a trigger point
You have to have tail
You have to control the oozaru form


The SS4 was "going back to the roots" was reutilizing the original saiyan transformation that made them such fearful across the galaxy. In the series, their tails were cut off because Goku couldn't control his ape form. Vegeta got cut off by Yajirobe.

They didn't know that a super saiyan who controlled his ape mode + was powerful enough + had the right trigger would turn out so powerful.

Just like how no one knew about super saiyan 3 until Goku showed it off. Everyone in the show isn't omniscient as people who've watched the show later, discussed it on the internet, theorized the potential upsides and downsides, hate it, loved it, and got bored of it, etc.

You're just confusing your own meta knowledge to that of the people in the series.

>>149785924
While obviously Super is better than GT, there are few things GT did right. The whole idea of SSJ4 is pretty spot on, when you have already beat to death the concept of super saiyan, looking for more power in the roots of their monkey thing was pretty neat. Also Goku in Super is a fucking retard, but well, at least he's not a kid, visually.

>Straight up bad story telling.
Dragon Ball in general has bad story telling so I dont think its fair to compare one to the other storywise, each DB has plotholes and random shit that conflicts withs other shit.

>>149785924
You realize every flaw you just listed is in Super, right? Literally every single one

>>149786214
>While obviously Super is better than GT
why is that obvious?

>>149786214
>While obviously Super is better than GT,
In what way?

>>149786214
>Also Goku in Super is a fucking retard, but well, at least he's not a kid, visually.
Kid Goku in GT was smarter than Adult Goku in Super. And most of the serious fights were in SS4. So him being a kid didn't really negativity affect anything, at least not in comparison to how they've made him in Super.

>>149786239
So far, the entirety of Zamasu arc beats whole GT. Not gonna argue about muh story or muh deep characters and motivations, this is DB so theres not much room for that, its just that Zamasu arc has been legit fun. Super has been close to Z fun levels since Hit vs Goku, and thats a big achievement taking in mind Z fans are pure nostalgia, me included.

>>149786328
Thats the point, GT Goku is better than Super's, even if people dislike the kid thing.

>>149783749
Super Saiyan existed so that Toriayama wouldn't have to color in the hair so no, that would have just made it worse

>>149786328
>Kid Goku in GT was smarter than Adult Goku in Super
That's the painful truth the Superfags can't understand.

>So him being a kid didn't really negativity affect anything
Kid Goku couldn't use his powers properly due to the body being different. Hence he couldn't teleport or fight proper in SS3 form due to the child body not having enough muscles/stamina for long fights

>>149786380
>dude I hate ningens therefore i'll steal the ningen's body and kill them all
Basically Baby saga all over again.

>tournament saga
Boring as shit

>dude trunks lmao
>dude vegito lmao
>dude fusion lmao
Super is complete trash

>>149786380
>Thats the point, GT Goku is better than Super's, even if people dislike the kid thing.
It sounded like you were saying the exact opposite of that. Actually, I'm still not sure how you expected people to get that out of what you said.

>>149786424
>Kid Goku couldn't use his powers properly due to the body being different. Hence he couldn't teleport or fight proper in SS3 form due to the child body not having enough muscles/stamina for long fights
I meant story wise. Also, Goku has never been able to use SS3 properly except while dead.

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>>149783762
no, he actually have standards unlike pic related

if he was a furry, it wouldn't be sparkledog-tier shit

>>149786452
>Basically Baby saga all over again.

Eh. The Baby saga kind of falls apart when Baby randomly decides to make Goku the focus of his revenge (Even if you say that it was due to their early battle, then Trunks should be there too) rather than Vegeta.

The motivation just doesn't follow, and it feels part of GT's efforts to make every single villain completely Goku focused (see also Cell in the Super 17 Saga who could have gone after Gohan, or even Paikuhan if we're including his previous filler appearance).

>>149786948
Baby hates saiyans. Goku is a saiyan. Therefore Baby hates Goku.

>>149785602
i want to smell her thighs

>>149787046
Vegeta is the son of the guy who wiped out his race though. Why would he hate Goku above everyone, and go out of his way to never lay an egg inside him or attempt to possess him, just to make him suffer and be killed by his own friends? It'd make much more sense for Vegeta to get that treatment.

>Hair around the eyes
What were they even thinking.

>>149787112
Understandable.

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I honestly never got the hatred for GT, when pretty much all its flaws - lazy writing, retcons, power creep, laughable character designs, cringeworthy humor - were a series staple as far back as the Saiyan Saga, which people give a free pass due to nostalgia.

>>149787211
what makes you think it's hair?

>>149784835
GT is bad, but as we see from Super, the problem was good ideas done poorly.

I didn't like Buu to begin with and I have no stock in following Super at all, but GT has its own myriad issues and pacing is one of them - the fights don't take 30 episodes any more, but the plot tries to structure themselves at that sort of thing and it just doesn't work with bits dragging way too much and others being too quick, when they'd merit the opposite of each instance.

>>149787280
All the other red fur. I keep imagining having hairy eyelids and I'm cringing like a motherfucker.

>>149784835

I thought GT had some pretty good concepts like Baby and the Shadow Dragons, I hated how 95% of the time it devolved to wanking over Goku being the strongest and basically killing every villain but then again it's been about 10 years since I've actually watched it so my opinion and nostalgia might be clouding me. I like how it tried to do a sense of adventure like the original Dragonball did with exploring the galaxy, that was cool.

The opening theme was very memorable and catchy though.
DAN DAN!

>>149787397
It's red eyeliner.

>>149787245
The hatred for GT mostly comes from people who don't like Goku being the focus all the time. Remember, even Vegeta SSJ4 is just beaten up - not only by Omega by a 4 Star dragon who was just "pretending".

>>149783749

I like the villains in GT more, or at least the concept behind them, they all have some sort of reason to exist, and feels more organic if that makes sense.

>Bebi wants revenge on the saiyans, so Goku and Vegeta have to atone for the sins their species did.

>Super 17, I didn't like this one, but at least it tied in with Bebi and the red ribbon somehow

>The dragons, was a cool idea and felt a lot more connected to the DB universe than "Oh yeah, I'm the god almighty that existed all along_, and "yeah, I kind of killed Goku just like that but then the literal power of love killed me even if I was immortal".

The ending was nice too, I like Super, but has dome dubfuck moments and even if GT was reduced mostly to Goku, Pan and Trunks....Super is mostly Goku and Vegeta jobbing, the other characters except for Future asspull Trunks are there for decoration when they shouldn't be, at least they did something in the Frieza movie, and that was the best moment.

>>149787397
his fur is pink, the markings on his eyes are red

Compared to Super GT doesn't seem so bad anymore.
GT at least had few good ideas and moments. Super has only tournament going for it. The rest is pretty shit.

>>149787422
Bulma is also getting more focus in Super than she ever did since halfway through the original Dragonball.

>>149783749
I feel like this is what Super Saiyan God should have been, keep the ritual and everything but have Goku look like this, and make it his new "Default" state where he has to achieve SSJ all over again like this.

(Kind of like a Newgame+ deal)

What happens if Goku becomes an oozaru while maintaining his SSJGSSJ form?

>>149783749
>when you realize Toriyama is still a lazy hack despite having other people draw the manga for him

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>>149787915
what do you think it will happen?

>ITT: I only remember the fight against Baby, Super 17 and the 1-star dragon. I don't remember anything else from GT

People saying Super Goku is retarded obviously don't remember GT Goku and his "I'm starting to get excited"/"I'm hungry xD" every fucking 5 seconds

Super is shit but GT is a big piece of garbage

>>149788202

>Goku saving the Earth by remembering Chinese food orders

>>149788012
Art =/= Story

Unless you use hack as a buzzword and you don't even know what it means

>>149788202
The fight against Baby wasn't all that good either though. DBZ wrote itself in a corner by having people able to destroy universes with a fart, and when they have gone beyond that level with SSJ4 and stuff, the attacks felt like they had less impact compared to what we saw in DBZ despite the characters supposedly being much stronger.

>>149788246
That shit triggered my autism so hard

>>149785307
I'm okay with either. It's not that I think SS4 is the most amazing form ever, but I definitely think it's a lot - lot better than SSG or SSGSS, especially because - like you said, it brings back the ape theme and tails which you would imagine would fit well for a GOD of saiyans.

>>149783749
Weak ningen monkeys?

but super is godly MUH GENKIDAMA SWORD xdd

Zamasu was just Xicor with a shit-tier climaxing

>went from glorious psuedo-angel to a hulking shinjin

>TFW the canadian dubs of DB and DBGT have been lost to time since they never got dvd/vhs releases

its a damn shame

>>149788988
>Kamehame eh?

Thanks god we will not see this crap in super.

>>149787449
Super's tournament was good? The shoddy animation and the shitty fights made me puke.

>>149788202
>going across the galaxy to find dragonball
>food scarcity and boredom hits goku like a truch
What did you expect

>>149783762
Toriyamas the one who decided they were a race of transforming mokeys, blame him. But as far as their species go it makes sense.

>>149783749
A furry emo faggot wearing pink?
No thanks.

>>149789720
Toriyama introduced them as a race of transforming monkeys in one arc, but in the very next one introduced a legendary transformation that had nothing monkey-like about it and was much more powerful than the monkey one. There's no reason the monkey would somehow become the ultimate power up again.

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>>149790748
this

fuck SSJ4

>>149790819
>not combining both transformations to create the ultimate one

>>149784835
GT is a bunch of good ideas done poorly, mostly because the crew tried too hard to recreate DB and later Z.

It's not goid, but it's, sadly, still better than Super.

>>149783749
I agree, but as >>149784742 stated, it would be too much of a hassle for the people drawing them

>>149784835
Literally better than Super, literally and unironically.

>>149783749

Gay, I'll take my rainbow Saiyan any day.

>>149785602

Who is this semen demon?

>>149787245
See the rampant hatred for the latest episode? Same.

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>>149787400
>The opening theme was very memorable and catchy though

>>149786021
The blue thing under the gi finishes the design.

>>149790819
It's like this, there were two parts to the whole encompassing arc of how saiyans power manifested. The first half of the series was about the beastly side of them, the monkeys. This was all of Dragon Ball + the Saiyan Saga. The next half was about the Godly side to them, this was everything about super saiyans after Goku first achieves the transformation on Namek. It follows, then, that the third and last arc would combine both traits into the true form of a Super Saiyan.

GT actually went through with this, as shitty as the execution was. SSG is just Super Saiyan 2.0: electric boogaloo.

>golden oozaru fur turns pink when he shrinks down
Why?

>>149795394
>pink

>>149785248
>GTFAGGS
The super movies where fantastic sequels, unfortunately the series is not.

>>149785583
It was mainly used regarding the lack of stakes or relevant new characters in the tournament, comparing it to the 21st Budokai and Baba's tournament.

>>149790819
SSJ doesn't have to have anything to do with monkeys, it's just a power-boost. Why would it need to?

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>>149790819
>Toriyama introduced them as a race of transforming monkeys in one arc, but in the very next one introduced a legendary transformation that had nothing monkey-like about it and was much more powerful than the monkey one.
True that the other transformations weren't monkey like but they were based on gods /ascended beings in Eastern mythology, especially the whole flying, screaming, muscles auras and ki, energy blasts, etc. I don't think it's too much of a leap especially considering DBZ also references Journey to West (Goku->Sun Wukong)
>>149791859
>>149794014

>>149784835
It has its issues, and they're plentiful. But you might enjoy it if you care for seeing the characters (like Vegeta) progress. In short, it has its moments. It's poorly animated and poorly written for the most part. It's the definition of "good idea, terrible execution."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIPxHTgDnjg&t=2s

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>>149796516
>>149796726
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_West
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong
>http://web.archive.org/web/20160219173011/http://art-eater.com/2012/01/a-buddhists-guide-to-asuras-wrath/
>http://web.archive.org/web/20160219173034/http://art-eater.com/2012/02/a-buddhists-guide-to-asuras-wrath-part-2-weapons-the-bishops-staff-and-hungry-ghosts/
>http://web.archive.org/web/20160124103116/http://art-eater.com/2012/03/a-buddhists-guide-to-asuras-wrath-part-3-weapons-the-vajra/

>>149793204
The Android Elite God Class Up.

>>149788305
Master Roshi's Kamehameha blew up the moon. To blow up the moon would require a yield of around thirty billion megatons, over six hundred million times that of the largest nuclear bomb ever detonated.

That means every single time someone fires a blast, it hits the ground, and it doesn't promptly vaporize the entire continent... that blast was infinitesimally weaker than Master Roshi's Kamehameha.

>>149785661
I think part of it comes from Battle of Gods, which is a very "classic Dragonball" film; it's a humorous story about a god who's an asshole and eventually becomes friends with the good guys, and mostly character-focused, with a few mystical elements thrown in for flavor and the actual battles being mostly afterthoughts.

>>149784835
ButtHurt,PlotWise they Are just as bad,The only good story was DB, Z was good but went to shit post-namek,everything else is bad

>>149800249
I never got the praise for the Namek saga. It was when most of the bullshit that cursed the series was introduced.

>>149784835
It's entirely up to the individual. I liked GT and admit it wasn't perfect. But the final arc made up for it and it wrapped things up in a sense for the entirety of Dragon Ball. That said, Super is fine but there are some people who feel it's made strictly for money.

Again, it's entirely up to the individual.

>>149800919
Not that guy, but—just out of curiosity—what bullshit are you talking about?

>>149801849
Powerlevel wankery, bland villains, fights dragging on for dozens of episodes etc.

>>149784835
Beginning was gag inducing

Actual Baby start wasn't too bad. SSJ4 and Golden Ape were cool

Super 17 is actually good

Shenrons fluctuated in quality, Omega was ok for final Boss

That flame 4 star ball King Piccolo wish was cool

>>149804008
I can understand why they went with that beginning though, they wanted the best of both worlds - the adventure of the original Dragon Ball with the action of Z.

File: Monkey.jpg (104KB, 860x615px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 860x615px

>>149787211
Oh shit can't unsee. But that's an red line that simians have in their eyes.