President of PA Horikawa released the first announcement after

>>149548129
>progressive

>>149548129
>Collected 6k a month for using her work desk.
Man if that wasn't in the work contract I would've been arrested because I would've beaten his ass.

The next Kyoani they said.

Old news. It's a specific transitional job where if you don't get promoted after a certain amount of time, you might want to switch careers anyway.

>>149548652
She should have just brought her desk from home on the subway.

What's the logistics behind this desk fee? Like, they could have just paid 6k less, but no that's some kinda deductible?

>>149548129

Man /a/ is surprisingly into this news story. At least it's a breather from the usual shitposting

>be useless
>still want to work there
>have to pay in order to stay around
Once again Japan proves that they know what they are doing.

Can I get a link on the original thing?

>>149548129
>>149548652
Why would he need to deny that? it's not like they charge you for right after you become inbetweener, they only charge you if you can't become key animator after 3 years.

And in fact IG even charge you 10k for same reason, but that will because that person really sucks so they want him/her leave.

>>149549766
See
>>149552263

Basically they're saying "you're useless, leave the industry already".
I finally it funny some people think they can use it as weapon to blame PA Works or any other studios.

>>149548129
Animation is a broken industry. It is shitty and even Miyazaki said it is a mistake. The owners of all animation studios regularly hire interns and abuse them to death. They pay animators so shit that it is one of the lowest wage careers in Japan. Despite selling tons of merchandise and over price two episode Blu-rays that cost as much as a PS4 game, none of it goes to the animators. Anime has become nothing more than a tool to suck money from cash cows like you. This is disgraceful and it's appalling some people are actually defending this kind of behaviour. Does anyone know how Comiket started in the first place?

Animation is dying, it's dying because there's no new blood. Unless you're dedicated to Anime, no one will take animation as a serious job.

>all these post critiquing how Japan does their work

Is your country's "animation" studios' working model so great? They got paid well for creating cgi and tweens. Surely that's a better product, right?

>>149553144
If you count CGI in games, movies and 3D anime, it is a better product. At least western products are released in seasons rather than two episodes. Japanese Animation studios are Japan's equivalent to Chinese sweat shops.

>>149553144

there's barely any posts saying anything like that. If you have something to get off your chest just say it instead of being a faggot

I'm more concerned about my own personal job and my health insurance benefits than what a bunch of nip women who love being inbetweeners do on the social media.

>>149553787
>health insurance
You're the reason why bosses need to be cheap in the first place. Just stay away from the gene pool.

>>149554212
Next time, try to get born in a socialist state.

>>149554315
Except health insurance is a socialist concept.

Look at Germany's mandatory HI and all the state meddling on Obamacare.

In Japan I believe everyone has to have one too if they want to get employed and whatnot.

Little by little you are obligated to follow more social obligations (putting kids in school, voting, paying rent, taxes, having an ID, vaccinating... depends on the country). If they decide you have to pay for your oxygen, that goes into account as well.

Soon your salary will be nothing more than aesthetic customization, while everything else goes to make your life identical to everyone else's standards.

>>149554482
>If they decide you have to pay for your oxygen
Portugal voted a sun tax. The more your house is sunny, the more you pay.

>>149554694
That's reasonable. Solar energy ain't free. In a few billion years, the sun will cease to be because it keeps expelling its mass into the void.

So what is happening, why are they disclosing all this stuff?

>>149554482
>Look at Germany's mandatory HI
And? It works fine. Stop being such a fucking tool.

>>149554774
The usual stuff happened. Some people blew it out of proportion, there's some PR, and by next week, only few will still give a shit, and by next month, it will be brought up as a dumb studiowarring meme that no one really even remembers what it really was about.

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>>149554820
>It works fine
Just like Social Security 30 years ago, huh?

>>149554774
Damage control

>>149555444
Kinda does where I live.

>>149555463
Well most free animators feel sorry for PA Works so it's not like they're being damaged.
Maybe you will said they damaged in public(or just some otakus?), but since most PA shows disc sales are low, it's not like they need to care about them.

>>149555463
Or honesty.

But you don't want to say that because you want your hate for them justified.

I must be missing something here because that desk fee shit sounds really dumb.

If the whole point of hiring inbetweeners is key animation training, couldn't they just get rid of the shitty ones (they're pretty much hopeless after 3 years anyway) and get fresh blood for cheap?

Instead they have this roundabout way of making them feel worthless until they get depressed and quit, while letting them waste desk space that they could use on a talented newcomer.

>>149548812
>>149552263
>Its to encourage them to quit.

What the fuck is this asshattery. Is this some complex they have where they can't/won't just fire them?

>>149557312
It's the non-confrontational passive aggressiveness the nips are known for

.>>149557312
Yes basically

>>149557312
It's an ultra-low level position. If you cannot handle that kind of job, you're not suited to that career path.

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>>149556185
>company
>being honest ever

>>149557312
What part of this don't you get? She isn't very good, so they've told her that if she wants to continue to work for them, they're going to pay her less.
Technically, they're charging here a fee rather than paying her less, but that's just to simplify the accounting.

>>149552808
Anime died a long time ago, son.

>>149557312
It's pretty much impossible to fire in Japan. If you are higher up but fucked up and are older they'll put you in an office to rot until you retire instead of firing you and bringing in someone else in the organization of fresh blood to replace you.

That's why employment is such a fucking mess in Japan.

>>149557057
>and get fresh blood for cheap?
Nope. Almost nobody actually applies to be an animator nowadays. The only reason turnover is slow is because there is nobody to turn in

>>149557507
Only otaku want to be animators.

>>149557602
Not even them are applying anymore

>>149557717
Of course. They are poor after all, and need to apply for a real job to pay for their habits.

>>149557773
Which bring us back to >>149557507

>>149557602
You'd be really surprised when you know that at least 60% animators in any studio became animator because they like to draw stuff and have no other skills besides drawing or animating cartoons. Only a few that are actively otaku and it's suffice to said that their animation skill are even worse than any non otaku animators.

>>149557602
>>149557717
>>149557773
>nobody wants to become an animator nowadays, so let's bully the few people who do into quitting!
If things really are like this I'm surprised studios aren't going out of business left and right.

>>149558007
Well, the industry is facing a labour shortage, though that is largely due to the sheer amount of anime being made per season.

>>149558007
The girl who got bullied away didn't want to be an animator though.

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Can someone properly explain what's going on?

>>149558007
She's bad at what she does, so they pay her less. Why is that difficult to grasp? She's not an animator, she's a hack who's lucky that they have no one else to turn to, or else she'd be out of work entirely.

>>149558205
I fail the purpose of treating her like trash instead of outright firing her.

>>149557312

You have rights to severance payments if you are fired.

If you quit you are not.

The amount of money saved per employee in the long term is negligible, but it pays itself back ten fold if you then work around minimum wage laws via "charges" like these (though corporations then lose more money because underpaid workers tend to work overtime like no one else does - 100 hour work weeks aren't uncommon - though in that case the corporations in theory get that money back in the form of productivity).

This by the way is why Japan has to have legislature to require corporations pay widows and family of people who literally work themselves to deaths:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar%C5%8Dshi

>>149548129
>PA leader receiving money behind the scenes
CLINTON RIGGED THE VOTE IN PHILI! REVOLUTION TIME!

>>149558414
>severance payments
Does this concept even exist in Japan?

>>149558413
>treating her like trash
Stop being hysterical. No one is 'treating her like trash'.

>>149558473
I didn't know you knew more about her life than she does. Can I borrow your crystal ball to get the next Powerball numbers?

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>PA Slavery

>>149558504
What are you talking about? You know nothing about her life either.

>>149558522
I know of her working conditions, similar to which I was subjected to. I know much more than you do faggot.

>>149558598
You're an inbetweener at a Japanese animation studio?

>>149558465

Yes, employees have a fuck ton of rights to protect them from wrongful dismissal, and a company has to basically prove they have a good reason for firing someone or else they have to pay the employee from the point they were initially dismissed to the point that the employment tribunal strikes down any appeals the employer wishes to bring, as well as additional severance packages.

And obviously "we don't want you around because we're not interested in promoting you" is a form of wrongful dismissal.

So Japanese HR departments are the greatest bullies on earth, denying unwanted but unfirable employees access to water, toilets, food, controlling how the employee has access to the building so they're only able to enter or exit at weird time periods, having "desk rents" taken out of employees salaries, along with stationary, photocopies, printer paper, printer ink, how much you have your light on, requiring "physical exercise regimes" or singing the corporate song in lieu of lunch breaks etc...

Shit can get full on Prison School at times. Honestly surprised there hasn't been shonens or seinens either about a sarariman trying to trick his employer into wrongfully dismissing him or an "benevolent" HR manager trying to force out "evil" obstinant salarymen who are trying to trick him into wrongfully dismissing them and their wacky themes.

>>149557507
>>149558037
>anime will die soon
>they're producing fujoshit instead of more cute girls shows
>reducing the number of master pieces they could create before death
Fuck, how can they be so blind!

>>149558644
I had my job charge me to work at their place, yes.

If animators are essentially paid pennies, then why is anime so expensive to produce?

Where does the money go?

>>149558849
And none of that is litigate?

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So all of that warm tomodachi feeling between folks at studio in Shirobako was PA work lies

>>149558917
It's relatively expensive.

>>149558890
Then maybe that's because you're bad at your job.

>>149558917
Voice Actresses

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>>149558917

Smug Lolis.

Seriously, the richest people in japan right now are either current child models or former child models, all sitting at the top of major anime companies, counting their vast fortunes and... smugging.

>>149558986
So, are you gonna borrow me that crystal ball or are you going to stop pretending that you know about other people's lives?

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>>149558520
>had everything you needed to live paid for
>slavery

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>>149558917
Into Jew's pocket it goes

>>149558969
Imagine what the actual animators feels about shirobako

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>>149559077
>slaves weren't provided everything they need to live

>>149557602
i'm pretty sure a lot of vietnamese, corea and thai will take the job.

>>149557312
Happens in some high class sectors in US too. Some of the high tech companies from silicon valley do that. Instead of firing you you are left to boredom and eventually change job yourself.

>>149559159
>you are left to boredom
As long as they pay me, I can keep myself pretty entertained.

>>149559159
>left to boredom
so they give you no work while paying you? sounds like a good life to me

>shitty inbetweener gets fucked

I see no problem here.
Carry on.

>>149559159

They also do it to deny talent to their competition. That is not the norm in the same way Japan treats it as the norm or as an acceptable tactic to dispose of internal dissent.

>>149559120
>able to work on anime they wanted to work on
>are being better off than with any regular studios out there
>comparable to slaves

>>149559199
>>149559193

It doesn't work in the US because you guys are taught not to feel ashamed of being a shit worker as long as you bring home the dough

In Japan not being useful is tantamount to raping your mother and killing your dad. Being 役立つ is why people are made.

>>149559286
Their employees sure as hell are

>>149558849
>And obviously "we don't want you around because we're not interested in promoting you" is a form of wrongful dismissal.
You sure about that? I thought you could write it into the employment agreement that the firm offers training but expects advancement within a certain period.

>>149559212
Finally somebody with sense.

It's no different than worrying about soldier childrens in Africa.

>>149559335
Japan is pretty spooked

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>>149559361
>childrens

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>>149559361
>>149559212
>This shameless samefagging

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>>149548129
WHY DOES ALEX JONES ALWAYS SURROUND HIMSELF WITH SEXY GIRLS? AND YOU CAN SOMETIMES CATCH HIM SNEEK A PEEK AT THEIR BOOBS WHICH I UNDERSTAND THEY ARE BIG AF WHY CANT I BE ALEX WHY WHY I WANT BIG TIT BLONDES AND ASIANS TO SURROUND ME AND CARRES ME ALL THE TIME!

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>>149559416
Nope.

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>>149559412

>suck complete ass after three years of training
>Get charged what amounts to a "you suck at this and are taking up space" tax
>Try to get attention and sympathy online by posting about how mean they are for telling you you suck

Women are attention-whores even in Japan.

>>149559352
It's not that they can't do it so much as that the japanese look down on such practices.

Japan up until the bubble collapsed was known for offering its employees a place to work for their entire life. You were supposed to get hired out of college and stay on until you hit　定年 the retirement age. Job transfers were unheard of and being fired was a betrayal.

After the bubble collapsed a ton of companies were weighed down because they had too many employees but couldn't fire them without losing face, this forced the japanese government to bail out several companies that should've gone under but didn't while simultaneously wrecking the economy by not being productive.

Nowadays around 1/3 of the entire workforce of japan does part time work, but it's seen as unrespectable and dirty by those who have permanent salaried employment.

So now the japanese depend on people having a decent enough sense of shame regarding the fact that they suck and should kill themselves in order to avoid firing and have them quit of their own accord. Those who don't get treated like garbage and are assigned to do monotonous archival work, janitorial duties, or in extreme cases sent to sit down in front of a tv and count how many pixels work or put in front of a computer and told that their new job is finding a new job.

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>>149559496

>>149559540
Careful, you may trigger some of the feminists on this board or even - may god forgive me for uttering this word - a male feminist.

>>149559540
Your place is that-a-way >>>/pol/

>>149559427
Because fuck you, that is.

>>149559384
Nah, Japan is just more honorable than shit west.

>>149559663
>women-hating originates from /pol/

Where do you think the ol' "tits or gtfo" comes from?

>be inbetweener for three years
>never get better and stay trash
>wonder why my boss is treating me like trash
Am I supposed to feel bad or something?

>>149559663

>Defending an attention whore

She tries to play the studio off as the bad guy on Twitter because surely she did nothing wrong, and thought she could get her 15 minutes. Unfortunately for her, the studio and anyone with a brain doesn't give a shit about a failure. Maybe she should've applied herself instead of shitposting on Twitter.

>>149559555
>can't be fired
It's like a dream.

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>>149559715
>honorable
Exactly

>>149559756

>studio doesn't give a shit
>studio literally issues a PR statement

ok

>>149559738
> "tits or gtfo"
Not woman hating, but part of the no girls on the internet meme. If you choose attention-whore for being a rare woman (on young virgin male infested sites like 4chan) you're supposed to be entertaining at least.

>>149559792

Standard procedure when you have a disgruntled employee trying to ruin your reputation. She's worthless and can't accept that.

Animators do get paid shit wages though.

>>149559766

A bad dream.

>relocated to the broom closet beside the sewage tank with a desk tax if you stay
>career is virtually FUBAR if you leave because job hopping is unheard of in Japanese society
>job hopping attempts are FUBAR since you'll never get references to job hop since job hopping is unheard of in Japanese society

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>>149559738

>>149559766
it's all fun and games until you landed on the pixel counting job

>>149559870
>Good to go
>Good to go
>Good to go
>Good to go
What so hard?

>>149559954

Not killing yourself at the end of the day.

>>149559846
I would just check-in, dodge work, check out.

>>149559978
I don't think you quite got what I meant.

>>149559979

>dodge work

CONGRATULATIONS YOU JUST GOT WRITTEN UP AND FIRED FOR VIOLATING YOUR CONTRACT BY NOT DOING YOUR JOB

ENJOY LIFE WITHOUT ANY SEVERANCE PAY DUMBASS

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>>149559108
>filthy inbetweeners
>animators

At least i know my waifu is eating good.

>>149560010

>Hi I'm anon
>Oh hello anon what do you do
>I count pixels
>Oh, how long have you been doing that
>30 years

The average Japanese animator would jump off a cliff after 3.

>>149560027
>getting caught dodging work
Kek. What kind of filthy secondary are you?

>>149560053
I still don't think you got what I meant

>>149560038
Aren't regular animators still paid shit?

>>149560055
If you are expected to have x number of drawings done in y number of days, what do you think will happen when they come to collect said drawings?

>>149560164
100k is pretty good.

Do you all know that animator are paid PER projects right?
I don't know what's the average projects an animator has but at least it isn't just one.

>>149560267
They will receive less drawing because of X excuse and they can't fire you because they will lose face. Play their spooks against them, you filthy secondary.

>>149560302
You do know around 80% of that will by siphoned out into rent right? Japan's cost of living is crazy expensive.

>>149560302
100k yen? That's roughly 1k US. I'm not sure what it costs to lv in japan, but that doesn't sound like enough to live off of.

>>149560302
in my 3rd world shit hole that's more than enough

>>149560391

According to google,

>Your annual salary of $24,000 would end up being about $11.54 per hour.

Minimum wage in US is currently around $7.50. Minimum livable wage in US is $15. Animators are being paid $4 more than literal McNiggers for 50x the effort.

Why would anyone care how no talent inbetween QUALITY producers are treated? Real animators make real money.

>>149560621
>Real animators make real money.
>implying
>>149560302
>>149560564

>>149560391
Isn't monthly minimum wage in the US around 1k as well?
I doubt the Japanese people on minimum wage live in expensive places like Tokyo. They most likely commute to work.

Minimum wage is shit in pretty much all countries. Minimum wage exist just so that all the extra population can find a job, because otherwise, if companies were required to pay liveable wages, then a fuckton of people would be without a job.

>>149560760

The only reasons you would be making 1k in the US are if you never graduated from high school, have a felony on your record, or are an illegal immigrant. Fucking Mexicans hopping across the desert to break their backs on construction jobs make as much money as decent animators in Japan.

>>149558917
>Where does the money go?
Aniplex