Again, what's wrong with saving the world by sacrificing

Don't you remember what happend to kerrytsugu?

>>149414277
I know but that doesn't mean he's wrong

>>149414250
Sacrificing the few to save the many doesnt always work and may end up with much more bloodshed than you expect.

Sacrificing yourself to the point of destroying yourself is insane and youre not much of a hero dead.

>what's wrong with saving the world by sacrificing the few
Nothing, but it's Shirou's ideals. That's why Archer came back to correct his warped thinking.
>What's wrong with saving the world by dedicating yourself
Didn't you see what happened to Archer? People will suspect you because you're literally doing God's work without getting anything in return. Also, people will just exploit you.

>>149414250
It is count down, until no one left. Only if everyone will be saved, it would saved the world

>>149414346
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CZwdJ1x1v8
Like this.

>>149414250
The greatest happiness of the greatest number theory lead you to kill your wife and daughter for saving three assholes.

>>149414371
Why is it that your average video game has voice actors ten times better than most english dubbed anime?

Does Shirou's ideals actually entails "saving the world"?

I've always assumed that he only tries to save people in his immediate surroundings. I mean, him wanting to be a Hero isn't necessarily out of care for the world as much as his admiration of Kerry right?

>>149414465
English dubbed games tend to be not much better than anime though. Hell, a good number of them are actually kinda worse.

It's a race to the bottom. Eventually you'll be sacrificing the few of your loved ones for two or three hundred randoms you don't even know.

>>149414333
What is wrong with Shirou's ideals?

Also nothing is wrong with sacrificing a few to save the rest, this is how the things work in this world.
Well maybe this is why life is so shitty though.

The whole saving by numbers theory is one of the most flawed possible. To every individual. the value of other people is different. For example, I would not forsake the life of someone I loved to save even the world. I don't value the rest of the world more simple because there is a larger amount of people, that is silly. I value the life of someone I love more than 7 billion, more than 7 trillion times that of the rest of the world. People are not numbers, they are not things you can simply add and subtract like variables in an equation. Everyone's value is different to everyone else in the world, killing one may mean saving others, but it may also mean abandoning yet another group of people. You cannot save everyone, but it is even worse to think you can save anyone at all by simply treating people as numbers. The trolley problem is flawed and completely meaningless, because it assumes that everyone holds the same value. In truth, there are probably no two people in the world with the exact same value assigned to the, by any number of people.

Simply put, if my waifu was the one person, I would not hesitate to let the other five die. A lot of people here might not understand that because it is common in current society, due to the large size of our population and the vast scale of humanity, to see only people as smaller parts to a bigger picture. They think of everyone as "1", and come to the conclusion that saving "5" is greater than saving "1". But to me, someone I personally hold close is more important than the entire universe. This is the way I feel, and I do not expect other people to hold the people I hold close, the same way. But people are not so simply counted as machines are, because people, being sentient beings, are far more complex than simple numbers and equations can ever convey. You can measure the chemicals in the brain producing emotions, but that is a crude and completely useless way of understanding a human.

>>149414250
>What's wrong with saving the world by sacrificing the few.
Nothing is wrong, but by doing so you are playing judge and jury on the lives of others and deciding yourself the fate of the world. Something one person should never do.

>What's wrong with saving the world by dedicating yourself?
Nothing, but if along the way you start to destroy yourself and your relationships with people what's the point of saving anything? What's the point of trying to save the world? If you couldn't even save yourself a little? You are part of the world aren't you?

To be honest if I was in the Holy War I would've killed anybody who got in my way of ending a corrupt and bull shit system from Rin to Sakura and Illya. Then I would aim for the destruction of the Mages post war.

>>149414550
And when does the death of a few innocents who have done nothing save others anyway? There are few times thats ever permissible and even then there might be other ways.

Theres also the fact that you might end up killing more than you save.

They sort of work in some ways but are flawed in the sense that you dont have to be a total edgelord to save people. As for shirou, it is good to put yourself before others but not to the point you destroy yourself. What good are you to others crippled or dead?

>>149414582
Right, but for everyone except your loved one, it's all the same, right? I wouldn't apply the kill a few, save a lot logic to my little sister or my little brother, but anyone else is fair game. Like if killing everyone in Green Bay saves Chicago, then bye-bye Green Bay.

(Not that I'd actually have the balls to kill anyone, I'm a giant pussy and that's why I'm posting on /a/)

>>149414250
>what's wrong with saving the world by sacrificing the few?
Good thing he didn't have to kill his wife and his child, oh wait...

>What's wrong with saving the world by dedicating yourself?
Good thing it didn't dam him eternally in the process and turn out the world doesn't need saving any way, oh wait...

Just because he fail doesn't mean he's wrong.

>>149414550
>What is wrong with Shirou's ideals?
Read up Nasu's flashback on how Archer led his life as Shirou. He even killed the children he used to play with because muh majority rule while some assholes celebrated and he was emotionally drained.

>>149414582
I guess you're missing the point of the trolley problem there
They say if they're all whatshisnames, what would you do?

>>149414250
>what's wrong with saving the world by sacrificing the few?
Nothing.
>What's wrong with saving the world by dedicating yourself?
Nothing.

Nothing wrong with these in themselves. Fate sure as hell is no authority and even it doesn't say these are wrong in themselves, because that would be short-sighted and moronic. It focuses more on the characters, but the fact that they're screwed up doesn't mean what they're doing is wrong.

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>>149414647
>Like if killing everyone in Green Bay saves Chicago, then bye-bye Green Bay.

>>149414550
Nothing, it's just without archer's influence he would have grown to despise them as he made all the same decisions as archer.
That's all this is, the future version of himself isn't saving the world or objectively correct, he just sees his past actions as a mistake and selfishly wants to correct them.

>>149414250
nothing, unless you're close to the ones sacrificed. live life for your few, sacrifice the irrelevant for the whole.

>>149414486
Correct, but most people on /a/ are secondaries who call Shirou a "moralfag" because they understand nothing about his character

>>149414582
>The trolley problem is flawed and completely meaningless, because it assumes that everyone holds the same value.

It assumes no such thing. Go back to school. Here's a hint: it's called a "problem" because the answer isn't supposed to be clear.

>>149414250
>implying fatefags don't just watch this for the girls

>>149415160
XD

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>>149415160
You're right in a way.

>>149414250

There is utterly nothing wrong with it, but it's soul-crushingly difficult.

I'll point out that Shirou's philosophy is great. We always need people like Shirou around. But no-one wants to BE Shirou, because the man is going through hell.

>>149414250
The Wolrd doesn't want to be saved. Only left alone.

>>149414486
Him wanting to save the world has less to do with altruism/moral faggotry and more with personal selfishness. Him and Kirei are two of a kind, people who can only feel happiness through other's suffering/making others happy.

>fatetards

>>149414550
Shirou's ideal is not save the majority by sacrificing the few, that's the answer Kiritsugu came up with as his way of living. Shirou just wanted to save everything he can with nothing sacrificed but himself, which led to him making a contract with the world. Following Kiritsugu's way of life as a CG is what led him to be disillusioned about his ideal in the first place, he was "saving" the majority, but all he saw was dead people.

>>149414250
>Implying I should make constructive posts and waste them on an underage chuuni fatefag

Age will tell you, there are higher calls than superhero tier justice.

>>149416008

Does your reason for doing something really matter? I mean, if Shirou showed up to save me, I'll be like "Thank you, thank god for you! You saved my life!". I wouldn't ask "Did you save me because your sense of morality compelled you to do you, or because you derive sexual pleasure from being worshipped for your efforts?". Only idiots do that.

The result is that he saves people. And that's what matters. If I was about to be gunned down by a terrorist and a man shot him dead, do you really think I'll complain if his reason for helping me was "Oh, I just really, really fucking hate Muslims. I wish I could kill all the sand-niggers who ever existed" instead of "Someone had to stop him!"

>>149416077
Of course, but the point is that he's literally 1 step away from being Kotomine. If it wasn't seeing Kiritsugu's happy face at saving him, but rather seeing Kirei laughing his ass off at the destruction, he'd be Kirei 2.0. The result is what matters, but moral faggotry/white knighting is more about the ideal, that's what moral is after all.

>>149416132

It's nurture that makes the man, not nature after all. Effectively, it's still the same: Kirei was a good man until he went off the reservation. Sure he was batshit, but he never actually did anything BAD up to the point Gilgamesh helped him discover his new fetish.

Nothing is wrong with that.

As mentioned, different people assign different value to any one person.
One may choose to sacrifice the world to save their family, that isn't wrong as well.

Miyu's Shirou made the opposite decision, to let the world die for the sake of a child's happiness.
Either way, someone will die.

>>149414250
This guy explains why kerry is wrong.
https://youtu.be/PS9h7j5vpr0?t=4m

>>149414250
he failed. they all fail, they always do.

>>149416165

That isn't true really.

He sent his daughter to an Italian orphanage and didn't check up on her, while the Church exploited her for the supernatural "ailment" she got from being born to Claudia, she is treated as a heretic. He did plenty of bad before Gil tempted him.

Hell, people kept mentioning him curing Sakura in HF like it was a good thing, when let's be honest, he lied to Rin about the command seals being a crest, and he has known about Sakura's condition since the Fourth War because his Hassans were watching Kariya in the Fourth War, so that is another mark against him before Gil.

He may have been confused about what he wanted to do, and could probably have used a therapist, but he did pretty bad shit before Gil handed him the forbidden fruit figuratively.

>>149418118
They do. That's why Shirou's ideals are better. He can at least be proud in failure. Kiritsugu can't.

>>149418244

The whole thing with Shirou though is that he is almost just as bad, and really needs a counselor to advise him badly.

He doesn't understand that you can only do so much on your own to help people, and while there are sometimes sacrifices that need to be made, you should make sure they are worth making and that you aren't ducking people over for what is ultimately a band aid option.

That is something Shirou likely doesn't figure out for a long time. He rejected being apart of the Magus Association despite the fact it offers benefits to his goal, better than being a random mercenary who can fooled with false tips. Because good people who are naive in how they approach doing good can be led to believe what they are doing is right, see pretty much all of HF.

Nasu avoids the rather unsavory parts of Shirou's journey where he would have to learn that lesson the hard way, and gives us the end result in an ambiguous way. Dealing with rebel factions as a mercenary is hardly ever a cut and dry "I save one group who is right and eliminate the hostile 'evil' group".

The ideal was always pretty muddy, and Shirou's declaration of being alright with being a machine is pretty much the opposite of what he should do in such a grey, ever changing world.

>>149414250
I don't care how Stupid Shiro is. You can't not respect his dedication.

I have a question, people do really have morality or they just do it to fit in society.

>>149418647
Who are you even talking about? Archer or post-UBW Shirou? The latter would never start randomly killing a faction without trying every other possible solution to avoid bloodshed, and the former was probably forced to as his job as a Counter Guardian.
>He rejected being apart of the Magus Association despite the fact it offers benefits to his goal
You do realize what would happen if said Magus Association ever finds out he has a reality marble, right?

>>149414250
Its moronic and stupid, there is nothing wrong with not saving anybody

>>149418928
Morality is whatever the majority accepts.

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>>149418928
Most people have morals. The few who don't are following to fit through society. And the few who don't conform get sent to jail. Unless you live in shitstain 17th world country known as china like I am, then fuck morals. You conform to not be moral.

>>149418981

I'm talking post UBW Shirou. We don't know if he'll ever have his hand forced into dicey situations. He isn't a part of an organization and for the most part is going in alone, information gathering has never been his strong point, he is an amateur with no guerilla training trying his hand at just helping people because he believes he can.

We see the end result, that he *eventually* goes further than where Archer stopped, but where and when is left ambiguous, as well as the details of how he got there.

Or do you really think a kid just out of college (if he even continues his education beyond self study to learn other languages) and trying his first stincts as a vigilante is gonna be smooth sailing with him always being on the "right" side of things?

All we got is that *eventually* Shirou will come to a place where he "surpasses" Archer, but what that means and where he'll be in his life is completely open.

It's like how Nasu says in Last Episode that he eventually realized the ideal in some way and made it to Avalon, but how? With whom? That was the more fanciful of all the endings.

It's like believing that HF True will have a future free of crap when an unknown phenomenon has Sakura continuously, outside of her control, gather mana in her body, and she ignores her side effects taking care of Shirou, who is also left ambiguous to what he'll do. The two of them are patched together freaks in that end waiting for some crazy person to find them, and while Sakura wisely refused Rin's invitation to the Association, she still deals with them given she has made several contacts as the Second Owner. I doubt all her contacts are gonna ignore a walking mana furnace forever. Not to say they would meet terrible things with certainty, but you get my point. Which I slightly deviated on, but there you go.

>watch Zero then UBW
>that meh finale

I basically waited 4 seasons for Saber vs Gilgamesh and I got cockblocked out of it. Is Stay night worth a watch or is it that terrible an adaptation?

>>149421085
If you want a proper Saber vs Gilgamesh, read the VN. If you don't want to read, pretend the series ended at Zero. UBW2014 is mediocre, and DEEN SN is shit

>>149421085
>>149421136
>tfw Gil's smug gets him blindsided and offed before he can fight properly
>tfw animated Gil going all out never ever

You'd think he'd learn. Then again since they're all alternate routes, I guess he didn't get a few decades in whatever place servants go to mull over his retarded choice.

>>149415185
>Ilya abuse

Why does he get off to this shit so much?

>>149422039

Butcher literally says he gets boners knowing that he could write loli Sakura being tortured. He literally got a boner when Takeuchi showed him that picture of loli Tohsaka Sakura, because, and I quote "I could write such unfortunate things happening to such a cute girl".

Urobuchi needs help, he is a sick man, I say this without the faintest hint of irony. Even docile Nasu got mad at him when he read the original manuscript for Zero before he had him change some stuff.

It's like how Nisio loves writing unfortunate girls, but even greater than that.

>>149423061
>original manuscript

I take it it was Zero but with 100x more suffering?

However it's not like Ilya got a happy end in Stay night, did she?

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>>149421085
>started with Zero
Just kill yourself at this point. Nothing you can do to fix your experience after that mistake.

>>149423061
Gonna need a source

>>149423426
>being this spoonfed
Find it yourself pizza planet

>>149416077
>Only idiots do that.
Welcome to the age of Millenias then my friend

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You have 10 seconds Shirou.

No real life situation will ever be as simple as "sacrifice one to save ten"

We can come up with artificial scenarios all day, like the "push a man off a bridge to stop a train from hitting a family" scenario, but a situation that clean cut will never happen in real life. How did the family end up on the railroad? Why can't they move? Why can't the train just stop? What makes you sure pushing the man off the bridge will actually stop the train? And on and on and on

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>>149423557

>>149414250
Because that makes you literally hitler.

>>149423426
Out of his ass

>>149414250
It doesn't work most of the time and it rarely gives you something positive.

You can however save your beloved ones and the world without this bullshit, yet ya ain't gonna save everyone sadly.

Though it doesn't mean that you cannot try.

Shirous ideas mean nothing because in the end they fail because of how Fate is structured.
In Fate Route he leaves Rin to continue be poor and eventually forget Shirou while he's banging Artoria in Avalon, and Sakura is still worm food.
In UBW Artoria eventually vanishes never accomplishing any goal, and again Sakura is Worm Food.
In HF Rin gets to go to Clocktower, but she's still by herself and still the only heir to the Tohsaka name. So goodbye that, and of course he kills Artoria.
Not even mentioning Illya dying in all 3 routes.
Shirou sucks at being a hero when you see all three roads he takes someone he swears to protect dies or fails

People are not a thing you can sacrifice.

We just need to classify them as something else

>>149423882
>In UBW Artoria eventually vanishes never accomplishing any goal

What goal is there for her to accomplish? The whole point of her route is realizing there's no goal for her. Her kingdom is gone, her people are no longer hers, she's a dead person there's nothing for her to do anymore.

>Not even mentioning Illya dying in all 3 routes.

Her lifespan was shit and she was gonna die in a couple of years. The price of being a walking pile of seals.

>Shirou sucks at being a hero when you see all three roads he takes someone he swears to protect dies or fails
>someone he swears to protect dies or fails

What does Shirou saying he'll protect Saber have anything to do with Saber's goal of recovering her kingdom? How does he fail exactly? I don't recall ever seeing him interested in her country and helping her change the past. He wasn't that interested in the grail by itself in the first place.

Gilgamesh (and Iskandar) was right, do what you want to do, don't worry too much about ideals. By doing what you want, you're already following your ideals anyway. At the end of the day, the only person deciding if what you did was right was yourself, by not being interested in retarded ideals like Shirou this whole bullshit doesn't even happen.

On top of that ideals like Shirou's cloud his fucking logic, not everyone has plot armour.

>>149424537
Shirou dies in 40 endings.

He lives in 4.

I wouldn't call that plot armor.

>>149424537
But all that Shirou wants other than protecting Sakura in HF is to follow those ideals. He has no passions, no particular interests. He wants to be someone who can save everyone.

I just want the story of Archer's 5th Holy Grail war and his path to Counter Guardian.

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>>149423719
>saving many by sacrificing few ist stupid because it doesn't work
>Trying to save everybody is better though it doesn't work either.

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>>149414250
Autistic people don't understand that the world doesn't revolve around themselves and the few people they personally know.

>>149424532
>What does Shirou saying he'll protect Saber have anything to do with Saber's goal of recovering her kingdom?
Re-read what I just wrote.
If he helps Saber Rin doesn't go to Clocktower and remains poor and now she's alone, and Sakura is still worm'd (TM)

>>149423542
Walk away and pretend that you weren't there.

>>149424655
>that fight between archer and saber vs rider
>shinji surviving berserker because illya scared of archer for what happened in the graveyard
>rin running to the fight in the midnight and encountering with sakura

i can't wait

>>149424898
>he doesn't know that Goldy kills Zouken in Fate and UBW

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>>149424961
That's not very moral of you.

>>149423542
I would kill all 24. It's unfair if only five die.

>>149424972
What the fuck are you talking about.

>>149424961
Everyone in the trolley saw you.

>>149425109
He probably fell for the 'the old man is his body' ruse too.
Gil is too prideful to think he has been tricked and saving Sakura would go against his muddied pride

>>149425114
All lives are collectively of equal value and forcing someone to discriminate between them wouldn't be right.
>>149425178
They'll be in shock when they see blood splattering all over the windows and forget about me.

>>149421085
I've only seen UBW but the finale was shit. Suddenly Archer is alive somehow, which alright I might be able to accept that but then the grail attacks Gil at the perfect moment. Double Deus Ex Machina.

>>149423542
Pull the lever. If someone fucks up everything it will not be my fault.

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>>149423542
What are you stupid?
There is only one answer.

>>149425700
You fucked up by pulling the lever.

>>149414250
Doesn't hurt to dream

>>149425875
Gilgamesh's solution for sure. If the guy deserves to live the tram won't kill him anyway.

>>149425899
But if I don't I kill 5 people, pulling the lever it's the most logical conclusión.
If the other guys also pull the lever then the dead count will be 4, if someone fucks it ups then it will be his fault.

>>149426008
If you don't pull the count is 5 dead and that's all.

If you pull the count is 4 dead and 4 murderers.

>>149426116
And?
In this situation we are trying to save what we can, I don't care if the other are murderers, because they did the most logical thing someone can do in that type of situation.

Why do you like to listen to music you don't even understand and is not part of your culture?

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A handful of lives means nothing if the goal you wish to accomplish; your dream, will lead to the betterment of the world.

>>149426322
You are killing 4 people as opposed to letting 5 people die.

Does one person make that much of a difference to you? Big enough of a difference to risk having 6+ people die in case any one of the others falls in to pressure? Instead of taking the calculating approach and stopping the problem directly in its tracks as opposed to letting it escalate further?

If "i pulled the lever it's not my problem anymore I don't care" is your reasoning for killing possibly 10 people then "I didn't tie the people there it's not my problem" should hold just as true since it only ends in 5 deaths.

>>149424655
Closest thing we got is Fate/Extra

>>149425109
Nice fanfic, bro!

>>149421085
>watch Zero then UBW

Why? Don't say because of release order, otherwise you would have watched the original FSN anime first.

>>149425643
>VN
The instant the RM drops, Angry Manjew is already upon Gil. No pause for dialogue or push/altering in Gil's own characterization to make him seem like a noble enemy
>Anime
Angra Mainyu doesn't immediately begin to swallow Gil when Saber breaks Shirou's RM (Excalibur was the reason the bubble didn't hold, so to speak), instead, an extended scene plays out that makes Shirou look like an incompetent for not finishing Gil off and infers both Angry Manjew and Archer are there to save his shortcoming.

>>149426632
Anon, I really don't give a shit if someone dies.
If I pull the lever and someone kills 5 people, they are gonna judge at that person, not me.

>>149414465
Better pay
Better direction
Better scripts since they're less restricted by mouth flaps.

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>>149426956
>>149426632
Why not just ask this question instead

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>>149423542
Do the other people know the entire situation?
If so, if they see the train, they know I have chosen to kill 1 over the 5, and they will in turn do the same thing.

If they don't, how would I know if I'm not the first person to make this choice?
If there are people ahead of me and I don't know if there are or not, chances are somebody already choose to derail the train.
If it still ends up coming to me, then I will derail it, since there will be more than 5 people killed if we never derail it, and the people behind me might choose to derail it. I'd rather take the losses now than risk losing more (since I'd be guessing that somebody else will choose to derail).

If I know for a fact I'm the first one and the others don't know that I am first, or they do not know how many people are behind them, then I will derail it since I'd rather take the losses than risk losing more for the same reasons as before.

>>149427009
I don't care if I die, so just pull the lever.

>>149427009
Literally nobody except thick as pigshit anime highschoolers like Shirou would pull it.

What's more, you aren't doing something to cause their deaths, you are just not doing something to prevent it. You aren't killing those people, you are just not saving them. Literally no reason to pull it.

>>149427009
I'd pull the lever even if there weren't any other people on the track.

Question
Why did the Grail even take Shirou?
He's pretty much patheticly weak in terms of Magi. Barely above human.
Why would the grail, who has accepted King Arthur, Gilgamesh, Siegfried, Solomon, and then some would it take Shirou and make him into the weakest servant?

>>149427589
Shirou was a Guardian not an Epic Hero.

Read this - http://shapedbyideals.dreamwidth.org/1461.html

>>149414250
Because people like you is easily tricked to harass and murder a lot of innocent people as long as your patron keep the lies coming.

Just like so many tumblr anons have done for the sake of Hillary and ISIS.

>>149427589
>Emiya is the weakest Servant
>doesn't even understand the concept of Guardians
Did you actually read it, secondary?

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Angra_Mainyu/CCC

So is this ever going to get animated?

A-asking for a friend.

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>>149414250
absolutely nothing.
it's like cutting losses, except that they are human lives. it's the CORRECT choice.

but in practice it's complicated. it might not always be the best choice, or the only viable choice. most of the time you can't be sure.
what if you're eager to "sacrifice the few" but there were other options that don't involve sacrifices?

i think the problem with kiritsugu is that he assumes that there will be sacrifices. that they are a necessity.
usually you want that to be the dead last option, but he pretty much makes it his MO right from the get go.
and his results speak for themselves.

>>149428021
Probably as the Fate cash cow won't stop anytime soon

>>149427999
Can't blame him if he watched the terrible anime adaptions.

>>149428138
>UBW
>terrible
MALfags hang yourselves.
He's a secondary regardless since he didn't read the VN.

>>149428021
>>149428092
>planet-sized woman in thong shoves the Earth up her vagina

Yes I'm sure this will be animated.

>>149428256
>UBW
>good

Nah.

>>149428256
>>149428530
Now that things cooled down, let's talk about UBW (the new version that is). This series simply works on every level and is a work of art. From the cinematography, the fantastic score by Hideyuki Fukasawa, the themes and characters. I love how serious Miura takes his world and manages to keep you on the edge of your seat for 26 episodes. From that beautiful opening where we see the inferno to Shirou meeting Waver in London.

Miura delivered a work of art, but is misunderstood. I think that audiences and critics simply don't like (or are incapable of) using their brain while watching a movie. The story is told through it's visuals, but in this day and age you need 10 minutes of boring exposition of every single detail without people getting confused.

Time will be kind to UBW and Miura. Who once and for all proved he is one of the best directors of all time and maybe the very best walking this earth. Thank you Miura, thank you for everything.

You might be thinking this is some weird parody. But I mean every single word. Too bad his genius is misunderstood.

>>149428642
I hope Fai is in this thread.

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>he doesn't watch everything at 0.005 speed

Took about two months to finish UBW (including sleep breaks) but it was completely worth it. The time it allows you to analyze each individual frame has given me a new appreciation for the higher forms of appreciation. I savor every inch of a single frame, only to see it change 8 seconds later into an entirely new work of art. I can finally appreciate a director's handiwork at its highest level without missing crucial details.

Every frame is indeed a painting.

>>149421085
might as well play the VN, it's got voice acting and you can play the last route which is the best

>>149421085
Go read the VN or just stop talking about this garbage. Substance improves this shit severely and so any attempt at an anime is going to feel lacking and ends feeling mundane.

UBW was particularly good either with all those eyecancer special effects, bad CGI and sub-par directing.

>>149414582
> not hesitate to let the other five die
And this sort of thinking is just as poisonous and dangerous. You are being completely controlled by emotions and are no better than sub humans

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get ready for tomorrow bois

>Personally, I think that it's impossible to fully convey the quality of the game. That's not me giving up, but rather that I think that they're two entirely different things. So rather than it being a question of how to adapt the game, I thought we should start off by deciding what to cut out. We'd carve it down to its bare bones and then graft uniquely anime flesh onto its skeleton. That's the process that I wanted to help with. It was the director, Mr. Miura, who had the visions of what it was going to be like during the adaption process, so if he said, "I want more brachial muscles here," I would say, "Let's add more, then" and add away. I think I was pretty committed to that process.
>For starters, we didn't try to follow the game-y elements of the Fate/stay night story, such as the parts where you gradually deduce things like, "What are this Servant's abilities?" or "What sort of Heroic Spirit is he?" this time. Instead of that, I suppose he wanted to make it something that could be enjoyed on a visceral level by watching it, in which scenes where the Heroic Spirits battle or use their Noble Phantasms rely on the power of the visual medium for their excitement than the original story's concept's.

Can we stop with the UBW hate?

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>>149429113
Fucking kek'd
I'm pretty hyped as well anon. Isn't it at midday Japan time? Meaning like 4 AM for me, I'm definitely staying up for some news.
So since it's gonna be an actual event, there should be a livestream, right? Those are alway fun.

>>149429419
yeah it's 4am GMT but I can't find a link for any streams

>>149428844
fukken saved

Do people seriously argue that UBW didn't look good?

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>>149430865
Recently marathoned Mirai Fukuin and it looked better even with the rhinofaces

>>149430865
>orange and red filters
>ugly 3d backgrounds
>shit animation worsened by adverse use of photoshop effects
>shit storyboarding
>shit rhino character design
Yes?

>>149430975
>shit storyboarding

?

>>149431129
What are you confused about?

>>149431194
What's wrong with the storyboarding?

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Here: No rhinofaces!

>>149414250
Shirou and Archer did everything right. It was their reasons behind doing what they did that were fucked.

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>>149414250
Obligatory image

>>149430975
>speedlines
>ugly low-detail moving terrain
>shit animation worsened by adverse use of bloom/glare
>shit storyboarding

Apart from the noses, you could apply that to One-Punch Man, which was being hailed as amazing animation all over /a/. You can change it up again and apply it to just about any other anime, because you're arguing against a certain style. This was the style they went with and it worked great, you may not like it but it was far from ugly.

The backgrounds worked just fine blended with the rest, it had it's own style but it did not look bad at all. Looked way fucking better than 99% of modern anime, far from it. It also was consistent, it didn't have the huge jumps in quality most anime has.

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>>149431449
>Shirou has a literal slit for a nose

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>>149428138
>>149428256
>>149428642
UBW is a very pretty show about characters who stand 10 feet apart from each other and patiently explain the plot while repeatedly making the same annoying hand gestures a million times.

>>149431651
What the fuck? What kind of autist even noticed and compiled that? Not to mention there literally 9 examples you've got there from a show that's 29 episodes in runtime. There are far worse anime trope gestures.

And regardless, I thoroughly enjoyed it, as it was airing and on rewatch.

>>149431651
How was Shinji so fucking stupid in UBW?

>fuck you Gilgamesh do as I say God you're useless!
>GILGAMESH SAVE ME
>heh too bad I lost the mage you needed for the grail tough luck buddy guess we'll just have to go looking for another mage wonder where we can find one!

How autistic do you have to be not to understand at least a sliver of Gil's personality?

>>149431651
Maybe it was actually set in Italy all along. Also what >>149431759 said, it's not even the same gesture, but lifting an arm with the palm up like that is absurdly common, even if there were double the cases presented, it wouldn't be anything weird for a 25ep series.

>>149431759
Look who is calling who an autist.

>>149431651
UBW really makes me feel bad about Ufo

They have done good projects

>>149431759
>What kind of autist even noticed and compiled that?
I noticed. I'm a martial artist and this triggered me worse than the sword fights in Game of Thrones. They just stand there and leave themselves open during a fight. It's insane.

>>149431851
UBW is the worst written route

>>149431974
I thoroughly enjoyed it, as it was airing and on rewatch. I will continue to complain and bicker with strangers on the internet as I can't deal with the fact that people don't like my favorite show!

>>149431953
What did you find autistic about my post?

>>149431974
In which of those examples are they fighting?

>>149432054
Asking what makes something autistic is what makes it autistic.

FSN is kind of a trainwreck and fails to meaningfully adress the philosophical questions it brings up, handwaving them away with a shitload of generic anime tropes until it reached Nasu's forced conclusion for that route which is then regurgitated over and over to make it seem meaningful

>>149431651
That's because they were trying to replicate the game and the gestures are because the characters weren't very expressive

>>149431965
Yeah like god ea-
Waiiiiit a minute

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>tfw reading about Gilgamesh and Enkidu

Why are the "villains" always the best characters?

>>149432274
I'd buy that if they were adapting a manga, where every pose is tailored to the scene it happens in. But the game poses were so limited because of technical reasons that don't apply to an anime.

>>149432422
you know they fucked irl right

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>>149432274
Archer is really expressive in ufotable ubw compared to the vn. In the vn his sprites have only 5 different poses (not counting the ‘impaled on the hill’ one) even though he’s a really central character, three of which are just standing up straight with varying levels of looking threatening. For comparison: side characters caster, lancer, and Gilgamesh(in armour) have 5, 6 and 7 poses respectively, and the more central characters saber, rin, and sakura have 15, 19, and 16 for just their casual outfits. The only characters with any kind of story importance who have less poses are Sasaki (who hardly appears), Kuzuki (who is pretty much confirmed emotionless), and Zouken (who can barely move)

Ufotable has only made him move more in the situations where he already did (or would have) in the vn, and by making him more expressive when he allows himself to be they’ve only increased the contrast with the times where he doesn’t. He almost flaunts his positive emotions but he hates showing any type of negative emotion, so the moment he feels something that could let him be perceived as vulnerable in any way he switches back to that stiff pose in order to hide it. The most emotionally compromised sprite he has that is not angry or surprised is this.

>>149432558
Lies and slander, it was purely bromance.

>>149433056
>he loved her like a woman
face the truth enkidu was his full time cocksleeve

HF movie 1 comes out tomorrow?

>>149432707
Imagine if F/SN gets a remake. And no, adding a few CGs isn't a remake.

>>149433149
announcement for the announcement

>>149433150
Have you played Mahoyo?

>>149433242
what the fuck
really?

>>149433292
I have, what does has this to do with a remake?
not that anon btw

>>149432422
>>149432558
>>149433056
>>149433084
Enkidu wasn't a man or a woman, it was an it created by the gods. Basically Gil got his own waifu made 3D, escaping the 3DPD Stacy whores. He sees the normalfags for what they truly are and wants to exterminate them. That grail muck sure as shit won't reach me in my basement, only normalfags that go outside have to worry.

Gilgamesh is our guy.

>>149433321
>I have, what does has this to do with a remake?

Imagine FSN in that visual quality.

>>149433365
that would be really great
I hope tsukihime remake gets on that level

>>149433345
This is maybe the most incredibly unnecessary change to mythology in the Nasuverse

>>149414582
>Simply put, if my waifu was the one person
Would your waifu still love a person that let five other people die

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>>149426485

how strong would Shirou be if he had a good master?
Is anything know about his true parents?
I remember something in HF about his grandpa trying to save him
I might misremember though

Shirou's ideals were warped to hell and back by his trauma and survivors guilt

they make that point over and over, it's why other characters criticize him so much. it's likely he does want to save people for real but the reason he goes about it the way he does is mental illness and emotional problems, dude was in a pretty traumatic incident pretty early on

>>149429113
EMIYA is a shit OST senpai.

From what I could tell, Gilgamesh is pretty damn prideful.
Why did he let Shinji order him around?
Why did he not kill Shinji the moment he talked shit about him?

>>149435738
He never did.
The first time Shinji talked shit was right before Gil put the heart in him.
He only played along in the first place because Kirei asked him nicely.

>>149435308
Why didn't they send Shinji to jail in UBW for sexual assault and attempted rape?
Why did people feel sorry for Shinji?
Fuck, why did Sakura feel sorry for Shinji?
She was getting worm raped and Shinji just thought he was the chosen heir.

I'm pretty sure worm rape is worse than finding out that you're not that special or some shit.

>>149435883
I suppose that makes sense.
Why'd he tell him about his motivation ?
Why not tell him to fuck off?

>>149435738
I don't think he even considered Shinji important enough to care about his opinion. To him, Shinji was just a means to an end, so why would he kill him before it was time to?

In general Gilgamesh only got mad at people who disrespected him once he saw them in their own light, so to speak. Everyone was beneath him, and a "normal" person with no magic was so far beneath him they were no longer people.

>>149435886
I don't feel sorry for him fampai, I think he's an interesting character but man he fucked up a lot. The reason I like him as a character at all is the fact he had so many emotional problems that weren't just the normal edgy-route anime takes with mental illness

>>149435988
Once again, because Kirei asked him to play along as Shinji's Servant. And I'm sure he was quite proud of his plan and actually wanted people to know about it.

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Ilya!

>>149437364
Alright who's gonna post the gif/webm

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>>149437999

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>>149429113

>>149423616
No one's gonna feel bad about killing a hamplanet

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I know what's right and what's wrong. What I've protected until now, and what I want to protect right now. I know which choice is correct, and which is wrong. With that in mind I

http://www.strawpoll.me/11582162

So what the hell was Kiritsugu facing where killing groups of innocent people was the norm? I feel like the plane thing would be a once in a lifetime occurrence but somehow he did it enough to make it a philosophy.

>>149438643
http://www.strawpoll.me/11582257

>>149428844
Honestly, it's not that bad for an inbetween.

Your waifu or your five favorite mangaka, including the one that created her?

>>149414250
Why do people give him shit for that? He makes perfect sense, being correct is objective, being right is subjective.

He was correct, but he wasn't right according to morals and/or Shirou's ideals. He says plenty of retarded stuff, but that ain't it.

>>149434599
You mean EMIYA? Rin's about as good a master as you can hope for.

If saving /a/ and this site required killing all the oldfags would you do it?

>>149414815
Nothing, I don't know any better so I might as well leave their fate to those more in the know about the situation, like whoever set it up.
>>149429009
>poisonous
>dangerous
I don't give a shit. I live individually. I'll be the most cancerous, subhuman fuck on the planet if I have to to save my waifu.
>>149433564
The problem I am proposing here is that my waifu is going to die, her opinion of me is not a factor, to me. That's assuming I do ever come to love another person, real or fictional, in that way. I don't have a waifu yet myself, but if I did that's what I would do. I someone elses continued existence is going to cause my waifus death, they must die. Whether or not they meant to do it is irrelevant. Sorry.
>inb4 edgy
Yeah yeah, nothin personal heh heh. I don't give a fuck if an action is edgy or not, only whether or not I want to do it.

Like I said, I don't expect people to understand.

>>149414371
If I'm to be believed, the majority of fans who started with Zero watche'd this dub, correct? They listened to it for 24 epis odes and though "Yes! This is exactly how these characters should sound"

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>this thread

So when will the trailer drop ?

>>149442562
Sometime after 4 hours from now. Don't 100% count on it being a trailer though, might just be new info or a visual.

>>149441368
>This is exactly how these characters should sound
Funny you should say that since going by MAL VA listings, they're randomly changing the burger VAs around in the different Fate releases.

>>149444291
yeah the UBW ufotable dub is one of the worst I've ever heard, at least Archer had Liam O'Brien in the movie

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>>149414371
>>149441368
>Everyone's praising the dub to high heaven in the comments

I know youtube is a bastion of shit taste but still

>>149434599
Probably below average as a magus. He has an above average number of circuits, quality unknown. It won't be high like the Aozaki/Barthomeloi because he's a first generation as far as we know, but it won't be completely useless like in Fate since he isn't neglecting them, leaving them to decay and atrophy if he has a good master from the start.

Magic wise, he might be slightly better at other shits since he'll have proper training from the start, but at the end of the day he's still an extremely specialized body only competent in "sword" magics. Plus, with a good master, he might not even get to know reinforcement/projection, so he might not invent/discover tracing at all.

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Everything's wrong with that when you can save everyone!

>>149423542
Pull the lever and then save the dude on the track. The people ahead do the same.