So, just how strong is Gilgamesh and why?
>>149103315
Weaker than Saitama.
>>149103315
He's not really that strong at all. He is just really powerful
>>149103315
Galaxy Buster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6r06jrWI-s
beaten by a non mage human lmao
>>149103396
>gets hit in the forehead, it actually got him to stop resisting
>couldn't even pull a skinny teenage boy
>couldn't beat a ginger teenager in a sword fight
>is physically not fast enough to draw his strongest weapon
Apparently some videogame spin-offs he has ftl speedfeats but any top tier character can shit on Gilgamesh.
>>149103424
Except those """""""galaxies""""""" are smaller than houses:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kiAcwtcfJ4
Gilgamesh can nuke people iirc, his ship and some of his weapons are nuke level. But I don't think he's really anything special. He even failed to kill Rider at first with Enuma Elish, despite the reality marble crumbling. And anyone who's fast enough can cut off his arm before he can use it.
His basic stats are really high because he's a Demigod from really far back in history and his myth is the foundation for all other heroes (hence, King of Heroes).
However, he's an arrogant prick who won't ever use his full abilities unless enraged beyond reason (hard to do, even Shirou didn't make him so mad he was mindless or he wouldn't have hesitated over the "ideological," failure of drawing Ea) or facing an opponent he actually deems a worthy challenge (possibly even harder). He always uses the bare minimum amount of strength, agility, etc he thinks is necessary.
In terms of his powers beyond base physical stats, the reason he's strong is because by Servant Rules the Oldest Thing Wins. The Gate of Babylon theoretically has the original version of every weapon any hero in history ever used. Because he has the original, and therefore older, version on hand, his weapon will always beat the other weapon in a one-on-one fight. On top of that, he can fire those weapons as projectiles in an anti-army fashion so he can fight superior numbers, and he can make full use of the weapon's special attributes so he has literally a Swiss Army Superpower that can counter any special trick his opponent can bring to try and tip the battle. He even has utility equipment like armor and spaceships and booze to cover any theoretical problem he might face. And on top of all of THAT, he has two unique weapons, the Enkidu chain which can bind divine beings, and Ea, which can rend the very fabric of reality and theoretically bust planets.
His only real weakness beyond that arrogance I mentioned is the fact that he "owns," weapons rather than "uses," them, so he is theoretically be a worse fighter than any other servant. Normally the "Older Weapon," advantage nullifies that, but if he's fighting one of the handful of weapons he doesn't have an original for (like Excalibur) or a hero that could counter his other advantages (like EMIYA) it matters a lot.
>>149103315
Any toonforce can destroy him
Anyone faster can prevent him from taking out his strongest attacks
Any high level reality warper destroys him
This guy struggles with Berserker, Shirou, got eaten by Sakura, etc. Look up characters with better feats and powers
>>149103315
>So, just how strong is Gilgamesh
About three fiddy
> and why?
Autism
>>149103670
His weapons can fire in any direction at the speed of thought. The level of fast you'd have to be to "prevent him from taking out his strongest attacks," is absurd. We're talking DC Speedforce fast, even a normal Super Speed guy like Quicksilver won't cut it.
>>149103436
>Shirou
>Non-mage
Huh?
>>149103670
Gil has weapons that can warp reality himself, its not a given that a reality warper can beat him.
>>149103761
This is some extreme bait
>>149103315
About the same level as Saber.
>FZ
Saber = Gil = Berserker > Lancer = Rider > Caster > Assassin
>FSN
Saber Alter > Berserker > Saber = Gil = Lancer > Archer = Assassin > Caster
>>149103315
>gettiing defeated by Dude, swords LMAO
Doesn't seem very strong to me
>>149103315
universe tier feats
his sword fucking created the universe and can destroy lesser realities, the strongest people in his universe are planet tier and he has a fucking galaxy buster at his fingertips
he just has to be smart enough to use it before he gets his shit stomped in
pretty physically weak for a fucking mythological demigod
>>149103424
>>149103761
>>149103818
>>149103869
Gilfags out in full force this morning
his power isn't really strong.
his weapons are.
>>149103887
Doesn't he own every single Noble Phantasm and that is what makes him so difficult to beat? The first epic hero and all that.
>shirou says he's the perfect counter to gilgamesh because he can mirror his sword spam
>shirou says that he would lose against any servant who mastered their noble phantasm but beats gilgamesh because he just spams shit
>gilgamesh overpowers every other servant just by spamming swords
>therefore shirou is stronger than every other servant for having the same ability
Does that sound about right?
>>149103937
>none of the unique abilities of gilgamesh's weapons activated, unlike the fate route
>>149103822
You're dumb. Gil couldn't shoot swords at Shirou because Shirou could ALSO shoot swords at the speed of thought. Also he was having an ideological symbolic fight with Shirou to prove he was superior because he was goaded by Shirou's comments about a fake surpassing the original. He wouldn't have tried sword shooting even if he could because it would defeat the entire purpose of the fight. He had to beat Shirou on Shirou's terms. That's why he hesitated when he went for Ea and ended up losing, because pulling Ea was a tacit admission of defeat.
Reading comprehension please.
>>149103937
the thing is sword spam is just GIl's bad habit, if he gets serious he'll take advantage at enemies weaknesses and use his weapon's maximum potential to defeat his enemies. And gil's arsenal isn't limited to melee weapon unlike UBW
>>149103937
Shirou could only fight Gil the one time for a few minutes by using Rin's mana. Unless he killed a Servant instantly they could probably hold out until he ran out of juice, and he couldn't even do it alone.
Also when Archer fought other Servants they were able to counter his Sword Arrow Spam when they couldn't counter GOB. It stands to reason that UBW Sword Spam is not as good at GOB, its only good ENOUGH to counter GOB because the swords are literally the same swords and so they're running on Noble Phantasm Concept Vs Concept Rules instead of a raw power vs power matchup.
>>149104039
>It stands to reason that UBW Sword Spam is not as good at GOB, its only good ENOUGH to counter GOB because the swords are literally the same swords
What?
>>149103761
souce: your ass
Even Shirou can catch him off guard before he could use Enuma Elish. FSN verse is not really all that impressive, I know Nasuverse has an omnipotent(?) or a godlike being but other than that Fate characters are nowhere near top tier.
>>149103824
How is this ranked? As fighters or in terms of pure power?
>>149104093
Raw power.
Shirou starts off as the beginner magus who was never taught by his dad, to beating his father's nemesis, Saber, Berserker, Gilgamesh and himself.
>>149104093
It's incorrect on both fronts.
>>149104126
if raw power i think hercules is still above alter since she still uses prana burst
>>149104070
Being literally the same item in Nasu land makes the relative ranking and power of the two weapons irrelevant. Their clash becomes a matter of Concept vs Concept. Thats the whole point of UBW, it makes the same item, and the perfection of the copy is dependent on Shirou's mana, concentration and willpower.
When he fought Gil he was shooting the exact same swords Gil was shooting by instantly copying and duplicating what Gil used. The copies were good enough to counter Gil's weapons, but that doesn't mean they're good enough that other servants can't block them.
>>149103869
>galaxy buster
His "galaxies" are smaller than buildings and he only used it in one specific game. That's like saying the mummy guy in Hunter x Hunter is a planet buster because he made a miniature planet or Father from FMA is a star buster because he held a mini sun in his hand.
Facts:
1. Gilgamesh's enuma elish blast failed to kill Rider even though it destroyed the reality marble. Saying it's universe level or above that is a no-limits fallacy. It literally never did anything impressive, couldn't beat Saber because Avalon (which is also a NLF but this isn't the point), not fast enough for Shirou, can break a desert dimension but not the guy in it.
2. Anyone who is faster can stop him from drawing his weapons/activating any devastating attack.
3. Has no impressive feats other than hyperbole or potential which means nothing because almost every character has potential. Madoka Kaname at one point can destroy a creature larger than the planet, and she apparently existed at all points of time and space. She could have the potential to shoot planet busters from all over time and space infinitely into one point, but I wouldn't call her a multiverse buster. That's just theoretical and "potential" and dumb.
All Gilgamesh has are no limits fallacy, a couple of nuke-level attacks, any top tier reality warper or powerful fighter with speed feats/strength feats should be able to take him easily. Stop exaggerating his powers. Im done with you Nasufags
Ea breaks reality and shits on physics. Thats hax.
>>149103424
That's not galaxies but the interpretation of something something forces.
>>149103761
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.
Don't be fucking retarded, Saber is barely hypersonic(when under Kiritsugu) and she was dodging just fine a lot of weapons, this under Shirou that gimps her.
GoB is at best mach 5 or something.
>>149103937
Archer took six lives off Heracles without using Unlimited Blade Works, so let that give you an idea of how much Shirou is underestimating himself.
Yes his projections are technically inferior to the originals, having a Rank down, but they're still Noble Phantasms and he clearly has/will have an arsenal of many that are extremely powerful regardless of the Rank penalty, not to mention the Broken Phantasm technique.
Gilgamesh does have a far greater variety of treasures available and Gate of Babylon can be used at virtually no cost, but once used Unlimited Blade Works is generally more deadly with the exception of Ea.
And even then Shirou has the nuclear option of faux-Excalibur.
>>149103315
>digested by Sakura
>lost a dogfight with Berserker
>beaten by Shirou
surely he is unbeatable
>>149104188
How does it feel to be autistic?
>>149104156
No shit, it's rock-paper-scissors and based on the servant's circumstances.
>>149103315
Weaker than Part 2 Naruto by the time he fights Pain
>>149104201
Not really, that only happens in Nasuverse because they basically live in the Matrix.
>>149104201
Waver survived it
>>149103490
/thread
>>149104161
Then why does Gil's swords overpower other servants but Archer's doesn't when they're the same?
>Saber is described at the most powerful servant
>Capable of fight off Lancer when Archer couldn't
>Gets destroyed by everybody
Explain
>>149104256
yeah a fast enough character can survive Enuma Elish, why do people think servants and masters are all that strong. compared to other series this is baby shit
>>149103315
He's the strongest by far. He's also retarded. He would have won every single fight in the franchise if he had fought seriously.
>>149104161
This is the stupidest shit I've read in a long time.
You have 1 sword, the original and more powerful.
You have another sword, the copy and less powerful.
By all means when they clash the less powerful one should be BTFO.
Except they clash and are equals in power.
Which means that the copy is not actually inferior, otherwise it would've been BTFO. This is just simple logic
>>149103315
He is stronger the strongest servant. He only loses because he is retarded and plot armor.
>>149104286
Gil's swords have a higher powerful than Emiya's. This is why Gil was able to surround Berserker with weapons and kill him quickly again and again while Archer had to do it the old fashion way with determination. By the end of it, Berserker was pretty messed up.
Shirou made cheap imitations to smash into Gil's swords, then charged him and cut off his arm. If Archer hadn't headshotted him,
A: Shirou cuts off his arm and Gil gets sucks in and dies or wherever he goes
B: Gil crawls out, kills Shirou, then gets to a hospital before he bleeds to death
>>149104307
she's a jobber
>>149104307
Archer is the weakest servant
Who would win?
>>149104286
Because Archer's swords may be "the same sword," but they're weaker. Its a fundamental limitation of a copy. Conceptually the weapon is the same, in reality one is a weaker weapon.
Note that UBW can make a fully powered and equal-in-every-way version of a sword that has no original owner, provided Shirou's will and image of the weapon are strong enough. That's why Archer uses Kanshou and Bakuya as his standard arms, and why Shirou could make a Caliburn capable of killing Hercules, they're both weapons without true owners. So in theory if Archer had the mana to shoot Caliburns the way Gil shoots all his swords, they'd pretty much be equals in terms of fighting other Servants since Caliburn is presumably an A-Rank weapon.
Of course, Archer couldn't fight Gil himself that way because Gil has the older more-original version of Caliburn, Merodache.
>>149104390
sakura
Gilgamesh Ea is universe level shit.
>>149104390
Sakura, Mahou Shoujo power levels are bullshit.
>>149104343
They still aren't equal in power. Sword rain doesn't even use the NPs to their full potential.
>>149104409
so illya>gil?
>>149104430
Well she did overpower Ea.
>>149104286
Archer swords are weaker because they are cheap imitations.
Gil's swords are the real deal.
Archer couldn't kill Berserker because his NPs are all shit, Gil only used top quality NPs to kill Berserker.
>>149104360
>>149104398
IF THEY CAN STOP GIL SWORDS THEN THEY ARE NOT WEAKER YOU RETARDED FUCK.
If you arm-wrestle a 5 year old and he beats your ass then it's because he has more strenght in his arm
If you become stalemated then it's because you have the same strenght.
If you beat him is because you have more strenght
Use your fucking brain. If Shirou's swords stop UBW AKA STALEMATE/TIE then it's because they have the same power.
>>149104126
>Raw power
Then I'd say it should be
>F/Z
Gil (Ea) > Saber (Excalibur) > Rider (Ionioi Hetairoi) > Caster (Prelati's Monster) >>> Berserker (Arondight) > Lancer (Gae Buidhe) > Assassin (Delusional Illusion)
>F/SN
Gil (Ea) > Saber Alter (Excalibur Morgan) > Saber (Excalibur) >>> Rider (Bellerophon) >= Archer (UBW + Broken Phantasm) > Berserker (Mad Enhancement) >>> Lancer (thrown Gae Bolg) >= Caster (Age of the Gods magic) > True Assassin (Delusional Heartbeat) > Fake Assassin (Tsubami Gaeshi)
Obviously doesn't account for things like skill or practicality but it's accurate in terms of "nuke" potential
>>149104459
ah, yes
>>149104343
"Concept," and "Strength" are not the same thing in Nasuland. This is the entire point of things like Origins and Mystic Codes and indeed many Noble Phantasms. A copy and the original will not have the same "strength," the original will always be better. But if a copy is perfect, then it has the same "concept," as the original, and thus when they clash they will destroy each other.
You're thinking about a copy vs an original as 8 vs 10. Under Nasu rules a copy vs an original isn't about numbers, its about an absolute innate status, True or False. If true, its a draw. If False, the copy loses.
>>149104427
And? Gilgamesh never uses his NPs to their full potential either, he kills people with sword rain(see berserker and Medea).
So by all means, if Gilgamesh can kill someone with spam then so can Archer.
Why does nobody in this game have a shield to block with?
>summon magic shield
>charge gil
>cut his head off
Instead, Saber and Gil's fight is Goku vs Vegeta.
>>149104525
Saint George could do that.
>>149104475
And those are all babby tier, dunno why people act like these guys are strong.
Why doesn't Gilgamesh just summon/shoot swords point blank behind people's heads to instakill them?
>>149104525
That's actually exactly how Saber beats Gil in the first route. Its her magical scabbard, but the principle is the same.
>>149104557
Because he's an asshole and he would never even imply that his opponent is close enough to his level to merit using a sneak attack.
>>149104497
Medea is garbage and would die to Archer's sword rain, yes.
Berserker has God Hand and Archer's copies explicitly suffer in terms of rank unless he supercharges them.
>>149104573
He did point blank chains on Berserker, what's the difference?
>>149104430
Yeah, her beam overpowered Ea
>>149104556
Nothing really matters actually, everything is shit compared to demonbane or umineko
>>149104574
Archer's UBW goes up to A++
You just need A to kill berserker
>>149104615
Ko-Gil goes on to say it wasn't up to par with what he'd have dished out fully incarnated.
>>149104471
Hey autist, swing two pieces of forged metal together at a hundred miles an hour and see how well they hold up
This shit is directly stated in the VN.
Gilgamesh has the original/prototype of every single Noble Phantasm and treasure created by mankind. They are superior to the modern degenerated versions, meaning they have Rank one higher. For example, Gilgamesh's "original" Caliburn would be A Rank, while Saber's was B Rank.
Shirou and Archer's tracing and projections cannot perfectly replicate something as complex as a Noble Phantasm, and so they produce copies that suffer a Rank-down penalty. The Caliburn that Shirou projects in Fate route would be C Rank, except Nasu had to pull a mountain of bullshit out of his ass so it was somehow strong enough to blow Berserker away.
But in any other circumstance there is an effective two-Rank difference between Shirou's projections and Gilgamesh's originals.
Now what people need to understand is that barring unique shit like God Hand, Rank doesn't mean shit because a Noble Phantasm is still a Noble Phantasm and can absolutely fuck your shit up. Lancelot's shit in Fate/Zero was all about this, turning a street pole into a D-Rank Noble Phantasm makes it strong enough to clash with Excalibur and easily have the potential to cleave Saber in half.
TL;DR read the fucking VN jesus christ
>>149103356
I mean, so is everything else?
>>149104600
One is a defense, the other is an attack.
>>149104557
He is retarded.
>>149103768
Common /a/ theory is that Shirou is so shit at being a mage he basically isn't one.
>>149104651
Prisma illya aint even cannon.
>>149104674
The chains made Berserker open to all attacks so how is it any better? Monologing for a minute to let the enemy know they're bound and hopeless because you fired off a sneak disable makes it a more honorable exchange?
>>149104709
Kaleidoscope make it canon.
>>149104600
He's arrogant, not retarded.
He knows Heracles isn't somebody you fuck around with, even as a "mad dog"
>>149104497
Gil can choose which weapons he uses. Gil uses weak shit against Shirou because he wanted to beat Shirou at his own game and humiliate him. Against Berserker, Lancer and Iskander he was using his most powerful stuff with the chains.
After he realized that he was going to die, he grabs Ea but then Shirou slices him up like his dishes. Avenger grabs Gil so he uses his chains as a last ditch effort to get out of there.
>>149104557
That's how he killed Assassin at the start of Fate Zero, but it hit his hand and not his head.
>>149104709
>he doesn't know
>>149104718
What was dishonorable about it? Enkidu is one of the few NPs he actually knows how to wield properly. Gil just cut to the chase.
>>149104709
Fate Grand/Order made it canon
Zelretch made it canon(He appears in the beginning)
>>149104745
So why not just spam swords point blank around his head if he takes it so seriously?
>>149104783
>point blank sneak kill is significantly more dishonorable than point blank sneak disable which leads to free kill
>>149104709
>Prisma illya aint even cannon
Regardless of your retarded assertion, Second Magic being ridiculous is absolutely canon and with a "gun" as big as Illya to load with it, overpowering Ea is entirely plausible
> So strong she was split into nine different servants
>Still stomps
> Gave up her godly status, immune to Enkidu/Gilgamesh's crutch
How can other servants even compete?
>>149104615
>>149104651
Also, the whole logic Prisma Illya runs on is that if she believes she can do something, she can do it. That's why she's a good Magical Girl and Miyu is shit at it. Miyu can't conceptualize flying, how it would work, the way she would have to use her magic to allow it to happen, so she can't do it. Illya just assumes she can fly, therefore she can fly.
Illya doesn't really know what Ea is, what its theoretical potential is, what it can do, she just knows its a Big Bad Beam. So she tells Ruby to make her whole body a magic circuit so she can use ALL THE POWER and shoot her Big Good Beam. She assumes if she does this she can make a beam that can win. Therefore she makes a beam that can win.
Theoretically she probably didn't need to do the risky shit of turning all her organs into live wires if she'd just believed she could do it without that, but that's sort of three layers deep into the mental chessgame...
I always figured that was also the justification for Caliburn doing something it should have been incapable of doing in the Fate route. Shirou didn't know his limits, didn't know how his power worked. He knew one thing: that he needed to imagine a weapon that could win. That's what he did, so that's what he got. Being ignorant actually made him more powerful because his power is based largely on how his brain perceives things, and when it lacked constraints it broke through the bounds of the possible.
But I think some Nasu scholar once told me that's wrong based on some fact book or whatever. Oh well.
>>149104821
It's a pointless comparison anyway. We have no way of gauging how it matches with the Ea of the other parallel world beyond how ko-Gil's apparently wasn't as strong as it could've been.
>>149104761
He literally says he's going all out against Shirou
>I can't believe I need to go all out against a mongrel like you
>When I finish there won't be a bone left of your faker body
Fuck off gilfag.
>>149104847
>the last true ancestor
How can other servants even compete?
Why is Gilgamesh so strong when almost no one knows who he is these days?
>>149104933
muh oldest hero and Nasu being a fan of Izaya
>>149104850
Illya and Miyu are fantastic magical girls because they are literally wish-granting engines. Input enough magic power and your wish is granted.
The Einzberns created the Greater Grail by using this same principle, using Justeaze as the core to hijack a huge mana reserve into a Holy Grail to grant their wish of reaching the Root and regaining the Third Magic. Likewise, Illya uses the same principle with the Dress of Heaven to perform a flawed imitation of the Third Magic at the end of Heaven's Feel.
It's not exactly just "DON'T THINK, IMASINE" but they're literally hooked up to infinite prana batteries at all times so they can accomplish a lot. Illya overclocking her Magic Circuits was actually necessary to match Gil's output, and as a Lesser Grail we know her prana capacity must be enormous even without "cheating."
>>149104933
I believe the theory is that since every hero story is based on Gil's story, he gets partial credit for all of them.
>>149104885
Actions speak louder than words, anon. The moment Shirou summoned the blade works there was nothing he could do. Gil played Shirou's game and he lost because of it. That's the whole point of their fight. Gil killed Archer because he was threatened and scared.
>Because he has absolute self-confidence, Gilgamesh presents himself calmly before opponents. However, depending on his mood, he is not above killing without warning with a rain of Noble Phantasms from behind. The will of the king is not something that can be gauged by mere tactics.
>For example, if magi attempt to use large-scale magic and act as "mongrels" that impede the king, Gilgamesh will simply unleash a raging wave of Noble Phantasms and completely crush them without giving them the time to cast spells.
Also, there is no 'serious' Gilgamesh. Urobuchi confirmed this in a French interview
>>149105057
>Urobuchi confirmed this
>>149103315
About as strong as your avarage japanes schooler.
>>149105057
I would think any time Gil uses Ea of his own accord he's some measure of serious. I can't recall any time he used it on a whim. Even that very first time where it was basically just fucking around he was using it to test Excalibur because it was a weapon he didn't have.
>>149105108
TMF: Does Gil have a Gate of Babylon in his Gate of Babylon? Is there an infinite recursion of memes?
U: No, but other powers could perhaps be brought out of it because, at its root, it was a weapon which was leashed. But it would be best to pose that question directly to Nasu.
TMF: But he’s not here …
Type-Moon France: If Gilgamesh was serious when he fought Saber, who would have won?
Urobuchi: The problem is that a serious Gilgamesh doesn't exist. But if it ever happened and he was fighting Saber, no-one would have won. Nasu said that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGKAEaXQoEQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uua5SPPTwdo
>>149103315
I press pause on my vee-el-cee and he's frozen
I click close on my vee-el-cee and he's gone
So he's about as strong as any other imaginary character.
>>149103315
as strong as his jobbing
>>149103315
The strongest in the universe.
>Heracles destroyed Gil's ass in F/SF
Too bad this fug has plot armour in F/SF
>>149103761
>We're talking DC Speedforce fast
My sides. If GoB is Speedforce fast then UBW is faster than the Speedforce?
>>149104692
>can project weapons of legend and can temporarily get the physical feats of the weapons original owner
>so shit at being a mage
>>149103315
VN villain level. He could literally be omnipotent, but the protagonist will win, due to some stupid shit. Especially in fate, where they do that cop out 'multiverse', meaning every route is just 3 out of infinite realities.
>>149104307
She's a tank, seriously, everyone use the noble phantams with her
>>149104525
What about Rho Aias?
>>149103937
Gil's sword spam takes no mana because the swords are already there and he only retrieves them. Shirou/EMIYA need to make the swords from scratch every single time unless they're using UBW, which is also a huge mana sink. Servants can compete with GoB to a limited extent, they don't instantly die to it if they're prepared, so the same goes for UBW, but it costs a lot more resources.
GoB is Gilgamesh's standard attack. UBW is EMIYA's ultimate, but it does basically the same thing as GoB.
I haven't really followed the new material that's been put out recently--is Gilgamesh still ranked above the so-called "Grand Servants" in terms of overall power?
>>149113398
Why does the Servant who uses imaginary noble phantasms have a pink shield and not say, Lancer, who is said to have protection from projectiles?
Speaking of which, I loved the fight between Saber and Archer in UBW.
>>149114271
Never heard of a Grand Servant before but it sounds like
Weaker than a Spongebob character
>>149114821
They're supposed to be the strongest representatives of their particular class or something like that. All I remember is that the Grand Caster is King Solomon and that he's as unbelievably overpowered as one would expect.
>>149103315
He's forty times as strong as peak human strength.
He's thirty times as durable as peak human endurance.
He's thirty times as agile as peak human agility.
He can handle forty times as much magical energy as peak human ability to handle magical energy.
He's fifty times as lucky as peak human luck.
And finally, his Noble Phantasm is immeasurably more powerful than a peak human Noble Phantasm.
I hope that clears things up.
>>149104525
Something about Japs having an aversion to swording & boarding. I dunno why, it's as if they don't like the idea of a greatly reduced risk of taking an arrow to the face.
>>149104525
You'd need a big shield to stop a Noble Phantasm. How many legendary shields are out there?
>>149115394
>You'd need a big shield to stop a Noble Phantasm.
Or just a table and a spirited eggplant.
>>149115660
>not using Sakura as the ultimate Shielder for her renown ability to cockblock to the nth degree.
>>149115910
Medusa shouldn't have been flirting with Shirou to start with. It was a bitch move. Bros before hos, sistahs before mistahs.
>>149103438
Actually that last bit isn't quite a factor of speed. Gilgamesh's problem isn't that he's not top tier, it's that he's top tier and he lets it go to his head.
He jobs against the ginger construction worker not because he couldn't draw Ea fast enough, it's because he hesistated to use it. He's always got that extra process running in the back of his head "is it worthy of me to do this" and it fucks him up 100% of the time he fucks up.
>>149115394
>How many legendary shields are out there?
A lot, but shields are boring
>>149104093
It's inaccurate no matter what
hes the best
>>149103930
Yeah. Without them he would probably be pretty weak
>>149103490
>And anyone who's fast enough can cut off his arm before he can use it.
No you fucking retard Gil can see the future.
>>149104161
This is pretty good. Why don't you fatefags make a full image explaining all this shit, so that it doesn't have to be repeated every single fucking thread.
>>149104789
I'd rather have Prisma being canon then Grand Order being canon. G/O is just so dumb. It's the fun kind of dumb, but it's dumb
>>149104635
That's the RMs potential because it holds an unlimited supply of B++ weapons if he wanted to. But Archer has to pump them up to get them to A and those he is more limited there.
>>149120280
>Grand Order being canon. G/O is just so dumb. It's the fun kind of dumb, but it's dumb
This, it feels like they are just pumping out servants for the sake of waifus so retards buy more shit. It has lost what made Fate fun which to a certain extend took their servants seriously.
>>149120424
Grand Order makes me feel better about my stupid OC servant ideas
He's a bit stronger than Enkidu
>>149120280
If we get another Prisma event Grand Order will almost be worth it
>>149120424
The core story is still decent though. I also like how it basically made Fate Route the most important one.
>>149104974
No shit, his noble phantasm is a collection of relevant shit.
>>149120638
>The core story is still decent though.
Last time I played it was too over the top.
>I also like how it basically made Fate Route the most important one.
Why is this important?
>>149120051
>Gilgamesh
>Actually Benkei, which is the Enkidu role of the yoshitsune myth
FF is full of what.
>>149103315
>Gilgamesh
>blonde twink
I fucking hate Japan.
>>149120803
>Why is a continuation pertaining to other stories important?
The problem with fate power wanking is that plot armour is the only thing that matters in this series, the fights are a vehicle for the story and it literally doesn't matter how strong a character is. In one route rider is completely worthless and in another she's the strongest servant. Shirou loses until his enemies suddenly become uncharacteristically weak. Lancer is forever doomed to be a plot device.
>>149120859
>King Arthur
>little Japanese girl
I fucking love Japan.
>>149121031
>Servants are said to move faster than the human eye can see
>Everyone, even normalfags like Kuzuki and Shinji, can see them fight just fine
Thanks, Nasu.
>>149103597
>The Gate of Babylon theoretically has the original version of every weapon any hero in history ever used. Because he has the original, and therefore older, version on hand, his weapon will always beat the other weapon in a one-on-one fight
This concept is so fucking dumb. Nasu's hack writing all day. So are NP real or not? Did the actual Cu had Gaebolg, or Gaebolg was just a fantasy weapon derived from Gilgamesh that's added to Cu's story who's also derived from Epic of Gilgamesh.
If that's the logic, then Excalibur and Avalon should also be derived from Epic of Gilgamesh. Story of King Arthur pretty much fits the "Heroes with Thousand Faces" trope. But no since Seibah is everyone's favorite waifu, she's special and her NP comes from fairies who is above god.
>>149121236
Gilgamesh has Caliburn's origin, but Excalibur is out of his hands since it was invented by the faeries. It's pretty consistent with the legend.
>>149121031
The only fight that's a complete asspull is Shirou and Saber killing Berserker in Fate route.
Everything else is at least justified in-story, even if some of it is still really stupid like Saber jobbing to Kuzuki.
>>149104409
It is good to establish who really sits on top of the food chain.
>>149120859
if you want a browned gil, you got ramses, stop complaining
>>149121354
>Excalibur is out of his hands since it was invented by the faeries
Which has to be derived from other weapons too. Ea is an alien artifact or something. Alien, fairies, tomato tomatoeh. I'm sure Excalibur is not the first weapon handed by gods, fairies, aliens or whoever to mortals, and by that Gate of Babylon logic Excalibur has to be derived from that older trope of mortal given weapon by supernatural beings.
That's not even my main point. My point is that does history matter or NPs are just made up. Cariburn cannot possibly exist if it's just recycled story from Gram older sword jammed into Arthurian legend, which means Arturia cannot possibly pulled a sword out of stone that didn't really exist and were just a repackaged story of older legends which means Arturia's whole existence is not real.
>>149121611
>Which has to be derived from other weapons too.
No?
Gilgamesh was an original invention by a divine being whereas other weapons were based from original concepts.
>My point is that does history matter or NPs are just made up.
It's both.
>>149121672
>Gilgamesh
I clearly meant Excalibur.
>>149121236
Gilgamesh has the original nameless concepts/prototypes/originals that inspired all of mankind's weapons/treasures/intellectual property.
He possesses the original sword from which the concept of "a sword who chooses a rightful ruler" is derived, from which the modern inferior NPs of Gram and Caliburn are derived.
His weapons are basically the Platonic ideals of all of humanity's inventions.
Excalibur is a Divine Construct made of unnatural materials and forged with techniques beyond human understanding. Even if mankind can conceive of something, they cannot necessarily achieve it; for example, Gilgamesh doesn't have a treasure that would allow him to do something like perform Second Magic.
However, he surely has a treasure that functions similarly to Excalibur, though likely not as well (besides Ea).
>>149121672
>Gilgamesh was an original invention by a divine being
You mean Excalibur. Yeah sure Excalibur is original invention by fairies, according to the Arthurian legend.
That's not my point, I'm sure according to the precursor legend in Gate of Babylon logic, Excalibur cannot possibly THE original sword/weapon handed to mortals from magical beings. For example, Thor's Mjolnir, Beowulf's Hrunting sword, or Caladbolg in Irish myths were all variants of "weapons created through/by supernatural ways" and were much older than Excalibur. Other way of saying my argument is that when Malory rewrote/repackage most Arthurian legend into Le Morte Arthur, Excalibur cannot possibly be not derived from other legends of a fairly common trope of supersword of supernatural origin.
Just like how it doesn't make sense that Caliburn can be derived and were recycled from older legend, but it was extremely pivotal in Saber's origin story that was treated as historical facts, this stupid ass "Gate of Babylon containing precursor to all/most NPs" is just a really dumb concept because it run a giant hole through the foundation of Fate's story - Saber's origin and more importantly the historical accuracy of Heroic spirits
>>149103490
>assblasted melvin replies to gilcucks
You are so fucking retarded.
>>149121934
>He possesses the original sword from which the concept of "a sword who chooses a rightful ruler" is derived, from which the modern inferior NPs of Gram and Caliburn are derived.
If Caliburn is derived and recycled from older legends, then how come did it actually, historically exist when Saber pulled it out of the rocks? Was Saber's entire sob story just an illusion from derived/recycled legend material then?
Nobunaga can beat Gilgamesh
Discuss.
>>149121934
>Gilgamesh has the original nameless concepts/prototypes/originals that inspired all of mankind's weapons/treasures/intellectual property.
Are you saying Excalibur, and Arthurian legend in general is not mankind's intellectual property? Taking the intellectual property further, does Gil technically have lightsabers in his stash then? How about the Death Star?
>>149120882
It continues fate? You what?
>>149122389
>FGO
Fuck off, you have a board for this shit keep it there.
>>149122457
FGO, Garden of Avalon, and every other additional Saberwankery hinges on Fate route being canon.
You cannot say that all 3 routes are of the same canon power now that pretty much the majority of additional material and lore hinges/references one particular route more than others.
>>149122530
FGO is, ironically, more canon than Fate/Zero.
>>149122118
>Excalibur cannot possibly THE original sword/weapon handed to mortals from magical beings
The point is irrelevant because the concept of the Gate of Babylon is not "origin of all NPs," it's "origin of all mankind's treasures"
Not the treasures possessed by man, the treasures created by man — all of which, in Gilgamesh's life, were owned by Gilgamesh.
>>149122225
The point is not whether or not Caliburn existed. Heroic Spirits and their Noble Phantasms can be changed or created entirely just from people's perception of them in legend regardless of whether or not they really happened, but that's irrelevant to the point.
Caliburn is an inferior weapon to Gram because it is the newer iteration of the same fundamental legend that Gram also played out.
Gram possesses a higher degree of Mystery than Caliburn does. It has a more pure, older legend than Caliburn, therefore it is the superior Noble Phantasm.
>>149122660
>>149122707
Oh so it's just fans thinking one is more canon because it explains more shit pertaining to a certain route. Nothing to see here, it's the usual canon warfare Fatefags are always on. B-But my route is more CANON than yours!
>>149122530
>Nobunaga is from FGO
How new
>>149122801
>he doesn't know about Nasu's letter and "that" stream
Man, you are just showing your secondary.
>>149103597
>but if he's fighting one of the handful of weapons he doesn't have an original for (like Excalibur)
Wait i thought Gram was the original? Or was that just for Caliburn?
>>149122754
>Caliburn is an inferior weapon to Gram because it is the newer iteration of the same fundamental legend that Gram also played out.
I completely understand the logic of Gate of Babylon and how Gram > Caliburn, but again you're not addressing my main point. My main point is that the whole concept while sounds cool on 2nd glance is silly. If Caliburn is derived from some older legends, then it cannot possibly exist historically. Saber cannot possibly pulled it out of the rock. It must be an additional component, recycled from older legends and rolled into Saber's origin story which put doubts on her sob story because pulling Caliburn is such a pivotal moment in her story, which then makes the foundation of the whole Fate story shaky.
That's all I'm saying. Nasu should've stopped at GoB being "stash of tons of magical weapons." Making NP can be derived from other, more older NP concept creates a plothole
>>149122801
Fate/Stay Night, Fate/Hollow Ataraxia and Fate/Grand Order are considered the main works of the franchise and, by that logic, the most canon.
Fate/Zero is considered a spin-off.
>>149122867
Oh yes. A full secondary now that I don't play shit mobile games like FGO. I am happier this way. Enjoy your shitty mobile game you fucking faggot but we are on /a/ .
>>149122225
In Saber's case at least, we know that Saber actually existed and her life actually happened because unlike other Servants, Saber is a real living human ripped out of time and not a heroic spirit from the throne. Caliburn really existed because we see her use it and we know she's real.
>>149122966
This is sad. FGO really should be it's own continuity
>>149123001
Man, the shit i'm talking about was shit that happened 2 months after the last episode Fate/Zero aired.
go back to >>>/r/fatestaynight
>>149122966
Haha another reason to drop this shitty as fuck universe. No wonder the threads of this crap have been dying the fans are waking up to Nasu's bullshit.
>>149122660
Prisma Illya is the longest-running Type-Moon property with three manga series running for almost ten years and over forty anime episodes of content, guess that means it's the most canon :^)
>>149123006
>Caliburn really existed because we see her use it and we know she's real.
But on the other hand we also know for a fact that it is derived from Gram, which creates a paradox unless when Gil owned Saber/Shirou the first time around he's just wanking Gram out of his ass and spreading misinformation
>>149123060
Then it goes back to this>>149122801
Because in all honesty I have been here far too fucking long to have missed something of value.
>>149123098
Prisma is actually better than FGO.
>>149122960
Why are you dismissing the possibility that somebody just heard the story of Merodache and made Gram because they were inspired by the legend? And then someone else made Caliburn because they were inspired by Gram? The swords all carry the Concept of "sword of selection," and the oldest one wins because it has the most MYSTERY, but that doesn't mean they were all the same sword or that the story about the sword was invented.
>>149123107
>He's just wanking Gram out of his ass and spreading misinformation
Wouldn't be above him. Gil is a dick
>>149123098
This.
>>149123143
>I-I'm older in this site than you therefore i know more than you.
I doubt that, I've been here since 2008 and don't brag about it to make an argument.
>>149122960
No, you're missing the point.
In terms of functionality Gram and Caliburn are pretty much the same weapon. If nobody had ever picked them up, they'd be more or less the same sword.
But the feats and legends they created in being used are what elevated them to Noble Phantasm status.
Because Gram did it earlier, it is the older iteration of the same fundamental legend.
Caliburn did it second, and therefore its legend is less pure and more derivative, making it inferior.
Older is better. Most of Gilgamesh's weapons don't even have proper names in modern times, but they're still extremely strong just on the basis of having this concept of originality.
>>149123227
Same here and so what? I am just pointing out that whatever delusion you have has been fucked by Nasu, and whatever you are trying to point out by saying one is more canon than the other by nitpicking certain words he says in certain interviews just means jack shit. Again I am tired of your canon warfare biased faggotry.
>>149123186
Of course, Prisma is the best part of the series outside Heaven's Feel.
>>149121236
Well, we know at least the sheath, Avalon, is real because it was dug up in an archaeological dig in F/Z.
>>149123350
The way I understand it is that old = better because more Mystery, and Mystery comes from the thing being made when there was less understanding at the Human Species level of how things work. Merodache is a stronger sword because when it was made it was less possible for Humans to understand how it worked therefore it seemed more miraculous and magical and therefore more powerful. When later versions of the story were told, more people could "see through," the weapon's powers and therefore it has less Mystery.
Is that accurate?
>>149123455
F/Z is not canon. :)
>>149123350
>>149123199
Then the relationship between Gram and Caliburn is very tenuous at best, if they're completely different swords and one cannot possibly be "derived" from other, nor can they share more than anything but the vaguest similarity by sheer chance for Gram to be in Gil's stash but Caliburn existing historically to be pulled by Saber.
This is the only logical explanation, but it runs counter to what Gil said was bragging about when he owned Saber first time in Fate route.
>>149123370
Man, the guy created the fucking franchise.
Everything he says is canon, also the stream showed that Ataraxia and the VN are that one primary line in the whole universe, that aside when they announced FGO back then in 2015 they literally showed F/Z under a "Spin-Off" label while FGO was together FSN and HA in the Main line.
Just search the fucking video on youtube, even ANN had a shitstorm about this and that fucking tranny jesuotaku was shitting on every thread because of that.
Our words mean jack shit about this at the end.
>>149103315
Doesn't matter how strong he is if he jobs all the time.
>>149123543
Its not tenuous if the logic is that one would have never existed without the other and the other is stronger by nature of being first. That's why its a "copy."
The question of the merits of a copy vs an original is a fundamental theme which runs all through the entire story and virtually all the major characters and their motivations. The clash of Shirou's Caliburn and Gram was just one of a couple dozen metaphorical examples of that theme playing out.
>>149123646
You misunderstand me. Nasu has never placed shit to be less canon than the other, that's the fans who nitpick his words . So whoever thinks their shit more canon than the other needs to get a reality check because Nasu has shown he allows everything.
I'm not that knowledgeable about the lore, but i thought deities couldn't be summoned as servants, so how was Heracles summoned when he ascended to godhood?
Is it just a case of summoning his demi form?
>>149123974
>i thought deities couldn't be summoned as servants
Eh that's no longer the case with FGO. Nasu doesn't really like rules and he makes them so he can break them later on.
>>149123974
Hercules post-death apotheosis is why his Divinity is Rank A. Other Demigods like Cu have Rank B, while Gil is 2/3rds and thus More God Than Human, which is why he's Rank A+. Rank A seems to denote "Half or less God for the most part but became More Than Half God at some point, even if just temporarily"
Interestingly, based on Chiron the rank for "Was a god at one point but became Mortal," is C.
>>149123491
Correct
>>149123543
>if they're completely different swords and one cannot possibly be "derived" from other
They are not literally the same sword.
Caliburn is not a reforged Gram.
The only thing that matters is that — regardless of ANY "historical" events that occurred — the legend of Caliburn is perceived as being derived from the legend of Gram, or at least both being retellings of the concept of "sword of the rightful ruler" with Caliburn being the later incarnation.
The actual events that occurred, and whether either sword ever really existed (they did), is irrelevant. People's perceptions of the same weapon or same Hero can and have created both Noble Phantasms and Heroic Spirits just on the basis of those stories, and many different versions exist within the Throne of Heroes.
>nor can they share more than anything but the vaguest similarity by sheer chance for Gram to be in Gil's stash but Caliburn existing historically to be pulled by Saber
First off, Gilgamesh's treasury was looted and his treasures were scattered across the world after he died.
Second, if I understand what you're arguing, the "current" status of the Noble Phantasm has zero relevance to its availability in the Holy Grail War. They're recreations just like the Servants. If Bazett had summoned Cu Chulain as a Saber, they would both have Fragarach. The twin Sabers summoned by the Edelfelt sisters in the third war probably both had the same Noble Phantasms. Shirou explicitly sees a superior version of Gae Bolg in the Gate of Babylon.
>>149123953
Ok man, cool.
Now I get what you are saying but still, Fate/Zero is not in the main line, zeltrech can suck my dick with that "lol multiuniverse" bullshit but still i get what you are saying.
>>149123974
Berserker heracles has divinity but no god status.
Alcides has god status, but no divinity.
>>149123974
Because the Throne of Heroes exists outside of time, it contains many variations of the same Heroic Spirit. The Heracles we see in F/SN was still "only" a demigod.
The Einzbern Holy Grail isn't powerful enough to summon a Divine Spirit by force, but some others make it possible for them to be summoned willingly.
Is Gilgamesh powerful enough to defeat his own ego?
>>149124416
Only if he's a shota
>>149123974
Demi gods get a pass. Actual gods do not.
he sucks because he's too arrogant to pull out the big guns from the beginning.
Remember when God Hand states that Herc can't be killed using the same method twice?
How come he's killed 7 times over by Ekskusu-caribah (or was it Caliburn, I can't remember). Not to mention that's not how multiple lives works. If you play mario and you fell into a lava, you lose one live. You don't lose all your lives by the virtue of the lava can kill you multiple times over.
Fate a shit
>>149124961
Just because thats how lives work in Mario doesn't mean thats how they work in every game. There's no rule that says you can't design a game where the rules give you 1000 HP per life but if you take 7000 damage in a single shot that you lose 7 lives.
>>149125093
What part of can't be killed using the same method twice dont you understand
>>149103315
He is really strong, he is so strong that he cant go all out without fucking up the world.
>>149125282
It only killed him once, but it ripped through seven of his lives when it happened.
>>149124961
>How come he's killed 7 times over by Ekskusu-caribah (or was it Caliburn, I can't remember)
Because Nasu is a hack
>You don't lose all your lives by the virtue of the lava can kill you multiple times over
If you had resurrection magic, died in lava, and were brought back to life, you'd still be engulfed in lava.
There's no good reason Caliburn should be able to ignore the "can't be harmed by the same method more than once" thing so we have to assume that the one attack simply destroyed his already weakened body so completely that it burned through all five or six of his remaining "lives" at once before he could recover. It kind of make sense if you assume the immunity doesn't take effect until his "new body" forms/recovers but it's still really shitty writing.
It would make sense with something like Excalibur that has comparable or greater Mystery, but Caliburn isn't even A Rank in the first place and Nasu didn't retcon that for years.
>>149125398
That's some gold medal mental gymnastics right there
>>149124961
Cali-burn
It has a burn effect. Since it was still considered the first attack his God Hand did not work.
>>149125477
The miracle of Caliburn meeting Saber across time and space again gave it a boost. Like you said it was just terrible writing.
>>149125477
>If you had resurrection magic, died in lava, and were brought back to life, you'd still be engulfed in lava.
But Caliburn strike is a flash of light, or at least based on the writing/CG art. It's not a continuous ray that bounces back and forth or even stayed for a long time. It was a single strike of light, the lava analogy was a bad analogy, my mistake
>>149103315
STRONK
T
R
O
N
K
>>149125757
CUTE
U
T
E
>>149125928
He should be pointing to
>>>/out/
>>149125712
This gif helps to visualize it
>>149123098
this is my favorite Illya face
>>149124961
He has to fully revive to gain immunity. In the fugue state between death and revival (which lasts mere seconds), he's just as vulnerable.
How big is his dick?
>>149126423
Big enough to make a goddess go into heat just from looking at it.
Is Solomon the only confirmed Grand Servant?
>>149126681
The only one with their identity revealed, but a very early datamine of voice actors implies that Artoria will be Grand Saber.
>>149126681
King Hassan is implied to be Grand Assassin (and who else could it really be), and Saber's seiyuu was datamined as a grand's voice
>>149126781
I was kind of hoping for Cain.
>>149126781
King Hassan wasn't implied to be anything. King Hassan wasn't even a servant. The dude showed up in the living flesh, because he never died. He wasn't in a container, he wasn't summoned, he just got up out of his tomb and came to kick some ass.
>>149104126
>shirou
>beating anything without plot armor or his enemies distracted/not taking him serious/unwilling to just blast him
>>149104307
She's nerfed so Shirou can get out of the kitchen. No seriously. Ataraxia restores one second her real power, her dormant dragon core, and she easily slices Archer in 4 seconds. He didn't know what hit him.
You need to look in other worlds to see her power, but it's mostly nerfed because she doesn't have access to all her nps or because her nps have retarded seals that cripple their power. Excalibur was made to protect the whole Planet by Gaia. Her spear is one of the pillars that hold reality together. So on.
>>149126866
Roman was starting to say "Gra" and he was cut off by Hassan. So no, he's implied to be a grand Servant.
>>149127000
>Ataraxia restores one second her real power, her dormant dragon core
When does that happen? Doesn't Shirou just use a Command Seal to give her a boost?
>>149127044
But anon, Roman is Solomon.
>>149126775
bleh
>>149103824
>Saber=Gil=Berserker
Melvin pls
>>149103315
Bout tree fiddy
>>149126866
And Solomon summoned himself back to life. It's obvious Grands and pull whatever bullshit they want.
The concept itself is stupid
>The Three Families, trying to summon heroic spirits to fuel a giant battery, made 7 RPG like classes to have an easier time of fitting them in
>Actually, these 7 classes existed since the dawn of humanity as the apex of heroic spirits, including such oddly specific things a mount-user, being angry, and being sneaky.
>>149127078
Yes, that guy's talking out of his ass (or bringing up unrelated stuff from GoA). In Stay Night Shirou-Saber was always beating Archer whenever they clashed.
>>149127514
>>The Three Families, trying to summon heroic spirits to fuel a giant battery, made 7 RPG like classes to have an easier time of fitting them in
>>Actually, these 7 classes existed since the dawn of humanity as the apex of heroic spirits, including such oddly specific things a mount-user, being angry, and being sneaky.
Dude, the retcon is simple. The Einzberns didn't make the system, they copied it.
Why would they even have "RPG like classes"? Why wouldn't 7 Lancers work for their ritual?
>>149127650
The Class system exists to give the Three Families an advantage, with the intent that the three more powerful Knight Classes would be taken by members of the Three Families while the shitters they trick into joining in would get the other four shittier classes.
>>149103315
Broken, nerfed by the world, as well as mana constraint. If he were to go all out, it'd end up with the Counter Force going back in time and prevent it from happening. Being a Servant, he doesn't have the mana to do so. In Fate, he was running off shitty orphan batteries, and Kirei (who isn't a stellar magus by any mean).
>>149123107
Legend of Gram predate the legend of Caliburn. Gram might be a Noble Phantasm created by its legend rather than an actual weapon like Caliburn, but its legend is older, so the Noble Phantasm Gram is superior to the Noble Phantasm Caliburn.
>>149127710
A common fanon interpretation, but none of Fate's stories have ever actually said that.
I mean, the classes existed in the prototype novel of F/SN, when there weren't "three families".
>>149122225
>>149123107
You seem to be mistaking something. Derivative works are real and exist all the time. It just means whoever forged Caliburn used Gram as a model for their creation, because they aren't original (and in fact nobody is original, everything was already invented in Gil's time including airplanes and submarines). Whenever you think you make something new, you just recreated something Gil already has, whether you know it or not.
I don't get it.
Why is the scabbard so big? The blade itself isn't that big so why
>>149104398
K&B is weaker than the real version
>Q: If the original Kansho and Bakuya take the stage in the Holy Grail War, as the twin swords reaching the realm of Gods due to the sacrifice of human lives, will they possess powers as Noble Phantasms? Or, since they did not have wielders in the legend, thus cannot become Noble Phantasms?
>A: Absolutely without a doubt that they will be true Noble Phantasms. They will be extremely strong anti-monster Noble Phantasms. Rider's ultimate form--Gorgon Lv100, or the extra-dimensional evil god summoned by Gilles, will all be cut down in a single strike.
>>149128267
Gotta be big to hold all that healing power
>>149104471
2 swords fly against each other at sonic speed, they clash, the fake gets destroyed, the real one get blown off course. The real one always survive because its being clashed against a projection, that's the rule of the universe. But as long as Shirou can spam out swords, it effectively lock out GoB
The real question is, with the recent power inflation how strong is Gilgamesh really? Certainly weaker than Solomon feat wise. Though in CCC, gil apparently has an FTL spaceship; makes you wonder why Babylon was never a galactic empire.
>>149126276
nice one
>>149128601
Gil has everything because legends state that the treasury of Gilgamesh has all of mankind treasure, so as a Servant he even own stuffs that will be made in the future. While alive he definitely did not have that spaceship
>>149128308
>Gorgon lv100
Is this real
Also is the second line saying Archer's K&B or the original K&B will have that property.
>>149103315
I don't know why people bother with power levels. In Nasuverse, if you are not a Type or equivalent - like Archetype:Earth - you're just simply shit.
Even Primate Murder could beat the shit out of gil like a walk in the park.
He's just a servant.
>>149129478
But anon, Types aren't waifus
>>149129519
>implying
>>149129478
Primate Murder has never been stated to kill a single human.
The dog is shit. Can't even do his job properly.
>>149103315
HAHAHAHAHAHAH, Gil got exposed by Shirou literally a decade ago.
>>149103315
MEDIOCRE
>>149129299
>Is this real
Yes. Gorgon Medusa is her as the monster she was in her legend. She's confirmed to be added to Grand Order some day.
>Also is the second line saying Archer's K&B or the original K&B will have that property.
The original K&B.
>>149130323
Of course I knew Gorgon Medusa, I was asking about defining it by levels up to 100, but I suppose Nasu really is that dorky. ;Like are we ever going to see a Lvl 1 gorgon?
>>149120424
>not just realizing that grand order was made to cash grab the fanbase
>>149121123
Can't they reinforce their eyes to see Servants fighting?
>>149120638
I thought everyone knew that the Arc route and Fate route were the canon routes since Last Episode and Ever After.
>>149121123
They're not full throttle 100% of the time. Even then, only some like Rider go full sanic
>>149128601
>recent power inflation
You mean back in 2013, when CCC was supposed to be the True End to the franchise before Nasu and Sony decided to milk it to death?
Good times.
>>149131767
>>149103315
Average for a Servant.
Weak as fuck compared to all the grand order faggots.
He has some OP toys like EA though.
>>149132025
>Average for a Servant
Even if he's a shit fighter his Parameters are still high and Gate of Babylon is enough to deal with 90% of Servants.
>>149103315
Strong enough to win with nukes
>>149104667
>everyone else
[Citation Need]
Saitama is inferior to just about most shounen, Toaru, Toriko, Pokemon all shit on him
>>149133935
In lieu of a One Bait Man pic
>>149103315
Objectively speaking? He's pretty strong.
But he'll also lose to weaker opponents because he has the wrong mindset when it comes to combat. So there's that.
What if Gil was a gril?
>>149135295
Red Saber from Fate Extra
>>149103315
Problem with Gilgamesh is that he's such an arrogant guy that people that are quite a bit weaker then he is, can beat him. The only times Gilgamesh will take you seriously is if he had respect for you. So the truth is the more you piss him off, the more likely your chances are of winning.
>>149135295
How strong is Ozzy compared to his gold bro?
>>149135295
Queen's right
>>149133213
Bro Civ Gilgamesh>Fuccboi Fate Gilgamesh
>>149135369
Type-Moon France: If Gilgamesh was serious when he fought Saber, who would have won?
Urobuchi: The problem is that a serious Gilgamesh doesn't exist. But if it ever happened and he was fighting Saber, no-one would have won. Nasu said that.
>>149136279
>Urobuchi
>>149136279
>Urobuchi
>>149136583
>>149136611
>Nasu said that.
Urobuchi, who is friends and collaborated with Nasu, would be a better source than shitposters on 4chan.
>>149136713
>Urobuchi
>>149136129
Ehh I dunno, I like both
>btfo by Saber
>btfo by Shirou
>btfo by Sakura
Why do people think he's strong again?
>>149138048
Fate route and Extra CCC makes him sound like the ultimate heroic spirit with the best stats that can't be beaten without Avalon.
>149131780
The Tamamo Takeuchi draws has little charm compared to Arco Wada's Tamamo.
>>149109037
>empowered by the Dolphin
>>149135533
Best girl.