>I'm going to make some characters >Make sure they

Because he got lazy, because his editors demanded moar Goku and because he's a terrbile writter

>>148911128
>Gohan and Yamcha were just dropped from relevance way before they needed to be for no fucking reason.
Toriyama planned for Gohan to become the MC, that's why he was the first to reach SSJ2 and Goku died again. Fans cried, editors bitched, and he benched Gohan to make people happy.

>>148911283
He tried to phase put Goku ever since the Piccolo fight and make Gohan the MC, but every time he tried the readers and editors would bitch, so he eventually stopped giving a fuck about the series anymore

>>148911283
I don't care if Goku remains the MC and gets most of the screentime, but there is no fucking reason why Gohan has to be COMPLETELY irrelevant in DBS.

Super is obviously just a fan pandering series anyway, but why don't they even just throw Gohan a bone every once in a while?

>>148911566
Gohan could potentially come back at any point if he'd just fucking start training again.

The scholar excuse is just stupid since he used to study and train for years without either getting in the way of the other.

>>148911972
Wouldnt even take that much. Toriyama could literally just have Gohan GET MAD and grant him an instant power up, but he's intentionally being left out of the story.

Have somebody abduct Pan or Videl or something, and BAM, Gohan has a reason to stop being a faggot.

>>148911283
>>148911566
Maybe he shouldn't have made Gohan an insufferable little crybaby when he was first introduced?

>>148911128
The original cast was barely keeping up with Goku prior to the Frieza arc. Once Goku went SSJ it was fucking over.

>>148913141
>4 year old watching his father get killed an insufferable little crybaby
Yeah, what the fuck was wrong with that child?

They were shit even in DB, it was always about Goku

Why focus on characters that are only meant to serve as background?

>>148911128
Bleach didn't write its fan-favorites out and look what happened

>>148913141
Character development is too much for you? Or maybe you want to say he shouldn't had made Chi Chi a fucking cunt. She was 100% great as a sweet martial artist.

>>148913166
Fucking Kaoiken, but that would make humans relevant.

>>148913399
Because Kubo wanted to copy Toriyama's bad writting, everyone exist to suck Ichigo's dick.

>>148913641
re-read the post idiot

>>148911128
At first I thought Gohan looks weird, but then I realized I confused him with Yamcha.

>>148911128
>STILL has the potential to be the strongest character.

We saw the culmination of that potential in SSJ2 Gohan and Ultimate Gohan, stop deluding yourself. He's finished with martial arts, has a wife, daughter and a job. He's got what he wanted, and if anything he might still get some relevance if last week's tease meant anything for a future arc.

>>148913554
Chi Chi was never sweet and she was always a sub par fighter. Still her genetics are the reason why Gohan was so strong.

>>148911972
>>148912192

Gohan has a couple of reasons already to stop being so useless.

The fact that Gohan has a spot in the OP of Super right alongside Goku and Vegeta should be reason enough. The OP has a focus on him much more than anyone that isn't Goku and Vegeta.

He got poked full of holes by Frieza, got really upset when Picolo sacrificed himself, but couldn't even manage a proper powerup. Afterward he asks Picolo to start training him again, so he can protect everyone. Have we seen any of that yet? We sure haven't.

Future Trunks comes back, and Gohan eventually catches on that Future Trunks used the time machine to get help with Black and Zamasu. But no, Gohan's still just upset with himself for being unable to do anything. But he keeps on doing nothing anyways.

It's like Toriyama keeps setting Gohan up to come back again, and then just drops the idea.

>>148913963
Probably his editors getting on his back going, " NO! BAD TORIYAMA! What did I tell you about trying to write Gohan back in the story?"

>>148911128
yamcha was ALWAYS a bitch

not even trying to meme, he is just shit all over

Just fucking do another World Martial Arts Tournament mini-saga with just the human characters/

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In a perfect world, Dragon Ball would stay Dragon Ball. The aliens would just be normal mercenaries that could be taken out by the main DB cast, and Yajirobe would be in the Namek group with Krillin, Gohan and Bulma. Basically an ensemble cast instead of the Goku and Vegeta Show. None of that powerlevel doom beam bullshit.

Pic related is the perfect selection of characters that could be used throughout the series.

>>148914378
Shut up nostalgiafag.

>>148914407
Fuck off Saiyanfaggot.

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It's just the general deep message of the Dragon Ball series that you didn't get. I'll spell it out for you and spoon feed your right now though:

Humans aren't that strong.

>>148913963
Gohan did first unlock SS by imagining how powerless and useless he is to save his friends.

Maybe it'll bubble up some power in him again if he continues to do it in Super, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

>>148914378
>Yajirobe on Namek
not sure about that
Saiyan and Namek arcs handled the cast pretty well, it started going wrong after Super Saiyan. Remember that Kaio training all humans did? Amounted to nothing

>>148914659
I'm just a big Yajirobe fan. The dude was holding his own in DB and became a fucking coward for no reason.

>>148914739
Yajirobe is pretty cool but I'd say he got enough spotlight in Saiyan saga. Maybe he could've been more of a role after Freezer ?

But seriously it all went wrong after Freezer. Everything that wasn't Saiyan amounted to nothing and even most of the Saiyans jobbed, because the whole arc was linear (beat X) instead of "win some time" or "find the Dragon Balls" which allowed weaker characters to matter

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>>148911128
>for no inexplicable reason

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I don't even care about Gohan, he has the life he wants. A wife, a kid and a good job. It's the fighters who deserve more screentime. Fun characters like Tien, Krillin, Yamcha, Piccolo and even Ciaotzu and Buu. But nope, these once colorful characters are just onlookers now whenever there's a tournament arc.

>>148911128
Gohan's situation in Super and Yamcha's situation in DBZ are not even remotely comparable.

Yamcha has ALWAYS been a fucking jobber and his irrelevance in DBZ should not have surprised anyone. Gohan on the other hand, was extremely relevant in DBZ, has the inherent ability to be relevant in Super, but is just getting shafted because Goku's huge fanbase is autistic and can't stand seeing him take over the reigns from his father.

Gokufags were a mistake.

>>148911128
He doesn't give a fuck for them. Dragonball Super is just a way so he can get the last drop of money from its fans.

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>>148914940
>Ciaotzu
>Fun

Literally nobody gives a shit about that useless manlet mime. Other than Tien and Piccolo, none of those faggots are even close to as interesting as Gohan.

>>148915161
I think you mean Krillin and Piccolo. Tien's attacks are cool, but he has the personality of a wet paper bag.

>>148914278
This.
Has Yamcha won a single relevant fight in the entire history of DB? The best he did was beat the Invisible Man.

>>148915322
He won against Goku.

>>148915356
I originally meant to note that he beat a hungry Goku, but I remembered Invisible Man, and I think that is more impressive than beating beginning of series, handicapped Goku.

>>148911128
>I'm going to ___
That's not how it went, Toriyama never planned for shit. This is common knowledge.

To understand why Gohan became obsolete, you must first understand what the kid Goku blueprint is. Dragon Ball was successful due to kid Goku, so Toriyama did a lot to keep that formula going. Gohan was the first kid Goku clone. Once Gohan aged, he was no longer needed. Then in the Buu saga, Goten and Trunks took over the role of kid Goku clone. In GT, Goten and Trunks were too old, so Goku was turned into a kid, so that he could play the role of kid Goku again. The kid Goku formula works. Gohan is too old to play the role of kid Goku, so he was discarded.

>>148915620
Gohan was nothing like kid goku.
Goku is always kid Goku.

>>148911283

Completely wrong. Gohan was by far the most popular character with Japanese fans after beating Cell. Toriyama only benched him because he was indecisive but ultimately thought Goku was better suited to be the main character, because twisting Gohan into a passionate fighter like Goku would have just made him a bland copy of Goku and would have forsaken all of his unique traits like being a pacifist scholar.

>>148915938
B-b-b-but muh evil editors

>make some characters so that when main character isn't on screen they can all be asking "WHERE'S MC?"

fix'd

>>148915322

While he technically died in a draw against the Saibaman, he was still obviously stronger than it. If you think about it, if he had Kami's training a year sooner, he would have been stronger than Raditz, and stronger than Goku and Piccolo combined.

So, regardless of Super Saiyans giving Saiyans an unreachable gap in power, it is still possible for any DB character to surpass them. Power levels are infinite, even for humans. We just haven't had the right plot device come along to allow the bridge to be gapped.

Alright I have to ask, why do people take DB/Z/S so fucking seriously? Every discussion on any site just devolves into debates on theoretical powerlevels and characterfags crying that their favorite isn't doing anything even though they haven't for nearly 20 years.

>>148916287
People get really attached to shows they like and come up with their own theories about it.

And since Dragonball essentially has infinite scaling in terms of power and places that they can go, it is bound to have pretty in-depth discussion.

>>148916287
It's fun.
It's like the "I have no bloody clue; Fanwank something" image with Anno, except with Toriyama we know for a fact that he actually has no bloody clue and that it's our duty to fanwank something.

>>148913141
I hate fans like you. He was 4 (originally 3 until Toriyama aged him up in the next chapter). Do you REALLY expect a 4 year old to not be a "crybaby"? I bet your bitch ass cried when you fell and got a booboo, like all 4 year olds.

>>148914940
Holy shit why is Tenshinhan so fucking tall? He's supposed to be only an inch taller than Yamcha.

>>148911128
Introducing aliens and shooting ki blasts is what killed dragonball. They could have continued with literal martial arts demons with swords and the red ribbon army mecha.

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>>148911128
It's a Jap thing. They like the idea of a single chosen one saving everyone else with his inborn talent. That's why your problem is present in almost all shonen and in very little Western superhero media.

It's dumb that Krillin didn't get the spirit bomb after we saw him handling it in the Saiyan Saga, that he has an ability that can cut anything but never uses it effectively, that the humans spent months on King Kai's planet without even picking up kaioken, and that the solution to mafuba wasn't to get the guy who already knows it but to have Goku acquire the power as well. Useless characters in shonen don't become useless because of logic.

>>148917949
I'm pretty sure he is supposed to stand in front of Yamcha.

>>148918539
Well DB in particular has the issue of hard powerlevels. If you're a 100 and the guy you're fighting is 100,000 you dont have a chance since you're slower than them, most of your attacks can't hurt them and your special move actually has to land which it probably wont.

>>148918778
>Well DB in particular has the issue of hard powerlevels

Not really. Whenever Toriyama wants to make Goku relevant for a particular arc he just gives him another super saiyan transformation. He could do that for any character if he wanted to. Then there are the abilities such as mafuba, spirit bomb, or kienzan, along with support abilities like solar flare, that ignore power levels, and others such as kaioken that amplify it to whatever degree the plot requires.

>>148919369
>mafuba, spirit bomb, or kienzan
All of which have failed more than succeed. But your overall point is true, it's what ever the plot demands and the plot demands 95% of the cast be useless in a fight.

>>148915938
That makes no fucking sense especially given what came about in the Buu arc when he reached his full potential and then jobbed like a bitch

>>148919733
>All of which have failed more than succeed
Fucking please. There's no other reason for Goku to achieve this other than being the MC.

>>148911128
It works for him because he did it before anyone else. Kubo got shot down when he tried that shit.

>>148911283
I've been hearing this story for over 15 years. Where did it come from? Does anyone actually have a source for it?

>>148921245
Speculations of asspained Gohanfags passed as fact.

>>148911128
>Yamcha
>Ever relevant

HAHAHAHAHA

>>148915938
Gohan doesn't need to be a passionate fighter to be protector of earth. He doesn't particularly like fighting, but will absolutely fight to help others.

There is really no reason to have not handed him the reigns after the Cell saga except pandering to Goku fags.

Gohan is also in general, a vastly better written character than Goku. Goku is the sonic equivalent of "GOTTA GO FIGHT", while Gohan underwent massive amounts of character development, and has way better reasons for fighting.

>>148911128
>Make sure they get tons of screentime and action so that a lot of people like them
>Then I'm going to completely write them out of the story for no inexplicable reason
It's just like OPs life.

>>148918141
Not even true even though hipsters constantly parade this retarded opinion around like it is.

There are parts of DBZ which are much better than DB from a pure writing perspective. The fight with Vegeta on earth was probably the most engaging fight in the entire series, and the Namek saga was in general the height of the entire series in writing.

>>148915938
He scored below Gotenks in the following poll. Probably because he wasn't the 2cool4school badass ssj2 savior; but Toriyama didn't really let him do anything cool in the arc.
People like to point to the editors and fans boogeyman, and Toriyama proven to be easily influenced (like quickly phasing out Cell's 2nd stage because his editor said it looks stupid); but I think it was ultimately his own decision; he simply didn't give a fuck at this point anymore. If you own the manga you can easily tell, even the panels got smaller and smaller in the last few volumes, he badly wanted to be done with DB already, one way or the other.

>>148911128
It's funny that Yajirobe has the most screen time now aside from Bulma.

>>148923480
>Bleach has 686 Chapters
>Naruto has 700 Chapters, and is being pseudo-revived with Boruto
>One Piece has 800+ Chapters
>Berserk has been ongoing for 27 years

>Toriyama's legacy is present in numerous series and is the biggest cash cow in the anime industry.
>Gets tired sub 500 chapters.

Why is he such a hack?

>>148923903
He has standards. Meaning he stopped giving a fuck.
Look at what became of naruto and bleach at some point.

>>148920239

It makes perfect sense, in that Toriyama flipflops on fucking everything and makes up shit as he goes along. He even said he didn't like Gohan for the main role.

>>148924174
That would explain why he turned him into nothing and made Goten a clone of Goku.

>>148923673
He always was a wild card on that part like cutting Vegeta's tail during a important fight.