Heavily flawed and frequently counter-productive MCs are the

The writers/creators are beta themselves so it's just self-projection. Japan needs to have more alpha MCs.

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>>148538067
>more alpha MCs
Isn't JoJo enough for you?

>>148537952
1 of those is not like the other.

>>148537952
ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE OTHERS
ONE OF THESE THINGS JUST DOESN'T BELONG

>>148537952
>comparing Kaiji/satou/shiji to kirito 2.0

I want this meme to end

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>>148538412
>1 of those is not like the other.
I know, right?

>>148537952
Remove Subaru, add Okarin and I can agree.

Also, did Edward Elric suffer enough to be included?

>>148538067
>then: MC you can look up to
>now: MC as pathetic as you for self-insertion

>>148538067
There's a very important distinction to be made between beta MCs that are just pandering self-inserts like a lot of harem leads, and MCs who are actually legitimate characters with legitimate reasons for their behavior like the ones in the picture.

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what's your opinion on this guy?

>>148537952
Kaiji > Satou >>>> Shinji >>>> Toyota

>>148538536
>>then: MC you can look up to
>>now: MC as pathetic as you for self-insertion
Pretty much
Ever Superman had to be toned down and 'brought down to Earth' cause edgefags are permiating normie culture and they can't accept someone better than them because it reminds them of their own failure either physically, mentally, emotionally or ideologically

>>148538636
>Toyota
You can't deny his torque.

Kaiji and Satou are great MCs, Shinji is average.

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I agree.

>>148538412
>>148538419
>>148538452
>>148538536
>Hating on Subaru

The fastest way to reveal you're a pleb. If there's anybody in the picture who's furthest from reality in terms of realistic behavior, it's Kaiji. His erratic swings between absolute incompetence and amazing determination and brilliance are even crazier than that of Subaru's.

That said, Kaiji is still a great character.

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Ron!

There's a point where you transcend reality and that's when you realize that Akagi is the true God MC.

Man, I've gotta tell you - I've watched it all, I've read it all. I was there, I've done this, I've done that, I did all of it.

I went from analyzing Shinji's handjob, I went on adventure with Lina, slaying dragons, blasting bandits, I've been there with Toki during the nuclear fallout, behind my bro, I've seen Ken mastering Muso Tensei, I realized the intricate meaning of Kubo's "heart", I really appreciated it, I was there at the Sanctuary, I made the Spirit Circle, I blasted the planet with the Biscuit Hammer, I tamed the 1000 beasts inside me. I was there with Joe when Rikishi died. I was there at the chicken manufacturing company when George first appeared. Yang? The Magician? I've met him, I was there with Kircheis, poor Kircheis, oh Kircheis. I beat Schnekopp once. I hate the Yagyuu clan, I killed a dozen of them, I was present at some of Asaemon's executions, I was gay once, coincidentally about the time Wing came out.

However! Nothing, nothing will ever top those seconds, those mere moments of Akagi's genius, character depth, sheer mystery, his monstrous nature. His Pon - magical, his Ron pierces the heavens, his blood - a mere inconvenience to him. GAR? Manly? Smart? Nonono, you all misunderstand, those are just minor atoms to the universe of Akagi. I declare Akagi the one and only, the true masterpiece. It's the only thing you can still appreciate, you can still crave more of, even after going through thousands and thousands of titles in your backlog. It's the story that turns all your world upside down. You all misunderstand - Akagi is not a character, is not a mere expression of Fukumoto's thoughts, nonono, Akagi is an idea, an ideal if you will, it's something from the Ancient universe, left to us by the Old Ones. They could not comprehend him, no sorry - it, despite being the ultimate civilization on Kardashev's scale. Nobody truly can.

>>148538375
No. It's a long-running mango, but we need more MCs who are both intelligent and confident because the proportion of these is subterraneanly low overall. Rise of the Shield Hero, Black Lagoon, and JoJo are the only ones I can think of readily.

>>148538812
thanks reddit

>>148538540
This

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>people will compare toyota to satou
The content of this website is for mature audiences only and may not be suitable for minors

>>148538812
subaru is from a shounen, the rest are from seinen.

>>148537952
If only we can have females with the same failings (complete with a moe artstyle), now that'll be cash.

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I love how easily the mere mention of Subaru makes people spurg out like crazy. The fact that you can place him next to a bunch of other really great characters, and he still hijacks the vast majority of the discussion is a testament to how well-written he is.

>>148538871
Jojos are all very intelligent and confident. And manly.

>>148539321
mostly because his cocksuckers are everywhere and they try to group him with actually good characters.

>>148537952
Kaiji is flawed on purpose.

He slowly goes from being the scared trusting guy who gets duped over and over to the guy who dupes the man and can confidently challenge anyone.

He's pretty alpha in the second part after he goes to prison. Hell, I'd reckon he gets more confident just in the beginning of part one.

>>148538067
I wouldn't call those characters beta except for Shinji.
Subaro was still pretty charismatic and in good shape and she clearly made advances on Emilia since day 1.
Kaiji is just lazy as fuck but he gets shits done when his life is on the line compared to other characters in the same series that just decided to give up.
And Satou actually had sex before becoming a hikki.

>>148539272
Tomoko is one such example

>>148539452
>Satou had sex before becoming a hikki

I don't remember where it was even implied in the anime. Yes, it was implied he had feelings for her and viceversa,but isn't the point she brings up in the anime that "they should have dated"? And they..didn't

>>148539562
In the novel is revealed that he had sex during prom night. He was a pretty normal guy before shuting himself from society.

All this shitposting. All good characters have flaws because a bullshit Gary stu is boring. It's literally no fun to watch or read something where you know the character will use his magic powers of bullshit to emerge unscathed with the love interest in his arms with a wet trail down her legs. It's why I can't fucking stand capeshit and all of its adaptations. Oh man captain America is in trouble! Oh wait nope he won from sheer patriotism.

Fucking dumb.

>>148539420
>He's pretty alpha in the second part after he goes to prison.
Except he loses all his genius and confidence when the life-threatening situation is over, and he has to borrow money from a Teiai goon so he can go eat ice cream with his friends.

>>148538812
>i've resolved myself to suicide to get the right route!
>lol jk this resolve disappears the next episode

Mazda is an inconsistent and shit character in a shit series.

>>148539399
If Subaru was actually badly written, he wouldn't invoke nearly as much controversy as he does. You place an image of Kirito and Shinji next to each other, nobody would take you seriously.

Re:Zero without Subaru would be so bad, the threads would probably be dubs spammed on /a/.

>>148539926
he only committed suicide because of the recognition not because he had hope things would be better on a fourth attempt and it took him all day

>>148539926
You ever heard of the phrase, "Motivation is temporary, discipline is permanent"? People rarely ever actually succeed when they resolve to change something about themselves.

Also his acting out after a few days of work when he committed suicide was less about lack of resolve, and more about the fact that he's a huge fucking narcissist and he was enormously frustrated that he wasn't getting praise after doing something he considered selfless since nobody remembers it but him. He was faking how exhausted he was to get attention from Emilia and Rem. That's why he pretty much just went back to normal the next day after Emilia let him cry in her lap.

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>>148537952
Nah I choose Lupin over that shit

>>148538581
nice bait m8

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best

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>>148539321
>well written
I think someone put it fucking brilliantly when they described good acting as "behaving truthfully in imagined circumstanced." In Subaru's case, he's portrayed truthfully.

He lived a sheltered life. He's a total dork, oblivious ass, and has a grossly swollen sense of self-importance...and then he absolutely humiliates himself by sperging out in front of the girl he loves and almost everyone important in the show, running his mouth, and getting curbstomped...only to sperg out even worse when he can't accept the reality that he's essentially a fucking nobody.

If the Witch of Envy hadn't worked some reality-altering fuckery, he wouldn't even *exist* in Emilia's world. He's only useful because he can loop back if things go wrong, and he can't exploit that to optimize outcomes once he reaches an outcome that's "good enough" because it auto-saves.

Subaru's not just a mess with realistic capabilities and issues, he's a fucking kid and he actually acts like one. Best character? No. He is refreshingly NOT an unrealistic savant, total pussy, walking collection of tumor-like clichés, or an everyman designed for the viewers to fantasize about replacing him with themselves.

As far as anime protagonists go, I think Light (the total bastard) was pretty fantastic because he was never inhumanly smart--he and L were both fucking brilliant, but they were consistent about it.

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>>148538067
>The writers/creators are beta themselves so it's just self-projection
Yes, because why would we want to see a character start out as a loser and gradually become more competent, confident and less of a pathetic little bitch?

With the exception of the last few episodes, Re:Zero was a solid show.

>>148540012
Holy fuck, this. Replace Subaru with literally any other anime protagonist and it's either another shounen "I'm too stronk" jerkoff fantasy, or the show would come to a grinding halt because the sheer intensity of their faggotry would prevent them from even attempting to save someone without forty episodes of sulking, a dozen guilt-trip realizations, and thirty gallons of bitch tears.

Fuck, stick Ned Stark in there. Sean Bean is so used to dying that Re:Zero would probably feel more like trying to solve a haunted Rubik's Cube than having an identity crisis twice a week.

>>148538905
Reminder that the people who vehemently hate Re:Zero and/or Subaru are more likely to be actual redditors who flocked to /a/ because they wanted a place to vent their anger about it being so popular on their home website. That's why they literally bring up plebbit in every conversation.

I've never seen a hatebase that is more cluelessly retarded than Re:Zero's.

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>>148537952
>Right: top tier MC's
>Left: absolute worst shit tier MC's from overrated garbage shows
Why would you do this?

>>148538067
How do you produce an alpha MC without making them a Gary Stu?

>>148537952
Actually there is.

The entire "flawed protagonist" archetype was a response to the previous world of romanticized heroes created during the modern thought movement. You can see a lot of these becoming incredibly important works around the Golden Age of American Literature (the 1920's through the 1960's), with one of the most visible examples being The Great Gatsby.

As time moved forward and thought progressed into post-modernism during the 1980's and forward, there has been a pronounced and specific response in a large portion of the population--a purposeful rejection of previous ideas as "arbitrary and therefore wrong", that has led to a generalized attitude of cynicism in the population at large. People want to believe that there is no good in the world, so they appreciate these imperfect heroes more and more.

That being said, that exact response is a direct result of an utterly flawed misinterpretation of post-modern thought. In fact, the academic world has left behind this idea of generalized cynicism, and the philosophers who shaped it never believed in it in the first place.

If you are currently in love with these anti-modern character archetypes that hit the scene decades ago, you're either quite literally behind the times or actually ignorant of current, educated culture. You're just sucking up the mass produced bullshit of confusion and ignorance produced by pop-culture. You are quite literally the exact opposite of patrician.

>>148541583
The left side is actually the side with more complexity of the two

Kaiji and Satou are good characters, but they're really not that subtle or hard to figure out. Subaru and Shinji put people in a frenzy debating the facets of their character.

>>148540714
>As far as anime protagonists go, I think Light (the total bastard) was pretty fantastic
And then your speech went to shit.

>>148538540
>there are characters from shows I like and characters from shows I don't like, the former are great, the latter are shit

>>148541131
People who hate Subaru are those who hate Kirito because he's a Gary Stu, but hate MCs when they don't have OP powers and solo'd the villains.

>>148542220
>complexity
Please
Shinji is still a pretty good character I guess but Subaru is just a cringe inducing faggot.

>>148538871
>we need more MCs who are both intelligent and confident
Intelligence usually comes with a lack of confidence. Intelligent people are more likely to doubt themselves.

"confident" intelligent MCs are there aplenty. They're very popular with the chuuni audience.

>>148542319
Good post

>>148539664
Have you read the novel or is this second-hand info?

>>148542648
Read it a few years ago and that part stuck with me. I used to think that Satou was always a loser based on the anime.

>>148539687
That's the point. Kaiji would be competent if he had discipline. That's what he lacked and he only managed to muster it in season 2 by thinking outside of the box (getting allies to police each other, spending a LOT of time thinking his plan and being really fucking desperate playing the Pachinko, looking for solutions and the such)

>>148542952
In part 3 he's still a lazy fuck living off Sakazaki tho. Kaiji is literally unable to do shit unless his life is on the line.

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Subaru is your typical isekai protag. When he's not busy being genre-savvy or self-critical, then he's (literally) shouting basic humanistic virtues to motivate himself to persevere and get the girl. Gary-stu MC's are actually atypical for the genre, the norm is the characterization which I described.

The reason Subaru a controversial character is because his own fans continue to insist that he's well-written; to imply that the dispute is a testament to anything is really fucking retarded.

>>148543268
Gotta agree here, flawed MCs allow for a greater depth of character development over the show, but as good a concept as Re:Zero actually has (the whole groundhog day thing is a setup I will always enjoy), the unbelievably poor characterization of Subaru just kills any momentum the show had. It wants to be more than your rote standard isekai web novel schlock, but doesn't actually do anything to break from the pack.

Shinji was a good character

>>148543268
>>148543485
Season 2 will fix this if it ever got one, the 25 episode is basically a huge prologue for his real character

>>148543268
>Subaru is your typical isekai protag. When he's not busy being genre-savvy or self-critical, then he's (literally) shouting basic humanistic virtues to motivate himself to persevere and get the girl. Gary-stu MC's are actually atypical for the genre, the norm is the characterization which I described.

That was half of his character, and it was intentionally that stereotypical.

The other half was the part of him that was a NEET failure shit human being, which is where the other half of your post comes in. Mentioned here >>148540318 and shown in pic related here >>148539321

Subaru is only even worth discussion because he has both.

>>148537952
Heavily flawed yes but don't make them useless and incomprehensibly irrational or they just get frustrating. Looking at Subaru and Shinji, there.

>>148544207
He's not worth discussion, but you fags keep bringing him up as though he is. The only discussion that occurs is attempting to show you how shallow of a character Subaru really is.

>>148543268
I like No Game No Life.

>>148544437
Then why are you discussing him?

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>>148537952
>putting Subaru next to Shinji and Kaiji

>>148544568
Read that post again and realize the answer is already given to you.

>>148543216
I'd say it's a bit more complicated than that. He needs a setting and some sort of awareness otherwise he'll indulge in animal pleasures and wishful unaccurate thinking, but he can be competent without facing life-threatening threats as shown in Chinchiro.

>>148537952
>you can't disprove my subjective opinion, I win

>>148540714
The thing I dislike most about Subaru's flaws is that they're inconsistent. For the most part he's capable of interacting with everyone totally normally, even after he dies several times. His love for Emilia is totally unexplained (in the anime at least). He acts dumb sometimes, like taking three deaths to find out he can respawn or never abusing (or even questioning) his timeloop ability but smart other times, like deducing who cursed him, how he was cursed,who cursed him, and how to kill it, as well as manipulating a bunch of people into fighting the White Whale for him, using the scent of the Witch to his advantage on several occasions, and even bypassing Crusch's lie detection. It's like he's dumb and spergy when the author wants him to suffer, but smart when it's time to actually move the plot along.

It's also worth noting he didn't go through nearly as much suffering as Rintaro Okabe from Stein's;gate, in which we see a literal montage of all of his attempts to save Mayuri. Subaru himself only died around a dozen times at most.

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>>148537952
>>148541876
Havent you heard?

>>148544602
>He's not worth discussion
>but I am going to discuss him anyway

So why are you discussing him?

If you are going to lay out half of a character and denounce it based on that half and not even mention the rest then you are not going to convince anyone of anything other than the fact that you can't even pay attention to the thread you are in.

I never even said anything about what I thought about Subaru. I just said that you were ignoring half of his character.

>>148545196
The entire point behind Sakamoto is that he's perfect if unorthodox. He's a Gary Stu played for laughs.

>>148538871
More important than that is personality.

But we all know none of the Jap's in the anime industry know how to write personality.

>>148545264
Because I really hang on the vain hope of making at least one Subaru poster stop shitposting. I did a similar thing when Umaru posting was a thing, Umaru being the best comparison to Subaru I can come up with.

>>148538067
Isn't Kirito enough for you?

>>148545287
Even so, he's a Gary Stu and still interesting. You know that whatever Sakamoto does will be cool, so instead of the show trying (and failing) to make you wonder if he'll ever not be cool, it places Sakamoto in scenarios which make you wonder HOW he'll do the cool thing, as well as giving alot of growth to side characters as they are forced to accept that they'll never be as cool as him.

The problem with alot of shows with OP protagonists is that they focus on whether or not the MC can prevail, instead of HOW the MC will prevail.
It's easy to predict that Sakamoto will be cool, but much harder to predict how he'll be cool.

>>148543485
>>148543268
What differentiates Subaru from other Isekai protagonists, or really any other anime protags in general, is his brand of extreme narcissism + laziness.

Subaru is somebody who tries to act like a hero because he compulsively needs other people's validation, which by itself would just make him Naruto, but combined with the fact that he's also lazy and self-centered creates a bunch of condridictions in his personality. He lies to other people and even himself constantly, and his actions are often the result of crazy mental gymnastics.

Him quitting working at the mansion after his second death so he had more time to "Investigate", his weird behavior around Rem and Emilia after committing sudoku, "Throwing up" in the sink, the coma; These were all things he probably faked or lied about (At least in the anime interpretation of the WN) for a bunch of various reasons.

>>148543777
A show that takes over 25 episodes to establish an overall goal or theme has big flaws in it's narrative structure, since even stories like Dragonball, Hunter x Hunter, and One Piece, had defined a stronger narrative in a shorter time.

>>148541131
This, reddit is a popular insult among actual visitting redditors and newfags

>>148544961
>His love for Emilia is totally unexplained (in the anime at least).
Have you ever been in love? There is no logic to it

>>148545686
I have to ask where you're pulling these assumptions about his character from.
The anime gives almost no real insight into Subaru's mind. It feels like you're reaching pretty hard here.

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>>148537952
I LITERALLY WISH I COULD KILL THE GUY WHO MADE THIS FUCKING PIECE OF POOPY

I'm not joking or JUST sperging on a fucking message board.
Seriously, what the actual fuck was he thinking? IT DOESN'T WORK. IT JUST DOESN'T!

I'm pretty sure any of you autistic fucks wouldn't drop da spaghetti as hard as this restarted piece of fucking shit because you FUCKING CHUBBY NERDS would all think: "FINALLY, NOW IS MY CHANCE TO SHINE LIKE GODDAMN JACK TORRANCE UP IN THIS WORLD!".

Could i be wrong? Definitely, because i didn't even finish the fifth episode. I gave up. Just. I'm not one to just drop a show without seeing everything there is to see so i can form a proper opinion, BUT IN THIS CASE I'M DONE

THIS IS THE ULTIMATE CRINGE MAIN CHARACTER. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO TOP THIS PROVE ME WRONG PROTIP YOU CANT AFHADALSDLJAHFÇAHTRA

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

There's a certain level of pathetic that jumps the shark.

Shinji and subaru are definitely at that point. I think realistic characters are the best, great example is takemoto from H&C.
>went to art college
>didnt get his girl
>didnt get an art job
>doing some tedious manual labor job that some child is doing

>>148546546
Same author wrote an even worse one before that.

>>148545686
>"Throwing up" in the sink, the coma; These were all things he probably faked or lied about (At least in the anime interpretation of the WN) for a bunch of various reasons.
I'm not sure if I understood it well, but are you saying he intentionally tried to pass off as depressed while trying to look cheerful so the mansion folk would give him some slack? That is insane and no where implied, it would make him a complete sociopath and smarter than he actually is

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What about the strongest man?

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>>148538067
badly written alpha MCs ruin stories

>>148545682
Sakamoto is to slice-of-life animes what Saitama is to "dragon ball" animes.

The media is so saturated that they bring a new breath of fresh air.

>>148546362
I disagree. Love usually starts when a character attracted to an aspect of their crush's character. Whether it's their looks, personality, ideals, or actions. The romance between Makise Kurisu and Rintaro Okabe is a good example. They're both otaku with an interest in science, have eccentric personalities, and Rintaro's wild scientific ideas and inventions compliment well with Makise's much more grounded approach. They eventually fall in love from their continued interactions and shared experiences.

Emilia doesn't have much in the way of an interesting personality, nor does she interact with Subaru very much, and she doesn't look outstandingly different from the rest of the female cast.

>>148546837
wasn't this a Visual Novel tough?
when it comes to "literal main characters", as in blank slates supposed to be you, they'll always be like this dude
take any Persona MC for example, or really just any MC from an anime based on visual novels/games

[ x ] Silent (Hill) type
[ x ] Crazy action turns out to be perfect plan (Who would've thought)
[ x ] Emotions are for normies (GFTO REEE)
[ x ] Every girl wants to *unzip dick*

They all check

>>148546878
Emilia was the first person to be nice to him and she does stand out from the rest of the cast, Subaru even calls her an angel for the impression she gives off
Also, recent WN chapters imply Envy is interfering with his feelings for Emilia

>>148546988
Learn English

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>>148538067
This

>>148547029
Insults are a big part of this entire site, i get that.
What really baffles me is that instead of insulting me AND pointing out something about my argument, you just disregard everything, almost like you can't respond properly.

It gets a 'pass' here because no one really knows each other, but when it comes to real-life situations, acting this way will only make you look ignorant and arrogant.

Moving on, i'm curious: How many languages do you know? I'm betting 1.

>one specific kind of character archetype is better than others
fuck off retard

>>148547024
I find falling so deeply in love with someone because they were nice to you once to be pretty poor characterization, especially if the target of the character's love is generally nice to everyone anyways.

Her only defining character traits are that she's nice and smiles alot.

>>148547213
Don't even reply to shitposters, there wasn't even anything wrong with your english, now he's more likely to reply again for attention

>>148537952
This is just some kind of psy-op to make people think RE:Zero is good.

>>148547307
You are absolutely right at this point in time where the anime ended where it did. However, in addition to my spoiler, Emilia and Subaru's relationship gets developed plenty and is the focus of Arc 4 (not shown in the anime), so you have to give it a small pass in that regard, I think.

>It's another thinly veiled Reeee: Zero thread

>>148547315
Thanks, tip noted.
I suppose i got caught on a low-quality bait.

>>148547390
I don't think anyone has to give it a small pass, the show had two cours to develop stuff and failed miserably.

13 episode shows often develop far more in less time.

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>>148539676
>literally no fun
i had fun

I don't care if a MC is relatable or not, since im not a SOLfag. As long as their character doesn't revolve around being Alpha or being Beta, but still manages to display their perspective to the viewer, then i'll enjoy it.

If you're watching anime to find a character you relate to, then you're watching too much anime.

>>148547390
Even if that's true, it doesn't change the fact that Subaru fell in love with Emilia to the point of obsession almost immediately.

>>148547504
>>148547549
The "show" had nothing to develop, it is an adaptation, not an original work. In regards to your previous post>>148547307
I can try to get you to understand his obsession better. Put yourself in his shoes, a NEET with no friends and a shitty family life ends up in a Medieval-type world. You magically speak the same language as the people but can't read. You know nothing about society, your money is worthless and you'll run out of food very soon. Wonder into an alley and get beat up and that small amount of food stolen by thugs.
Along comes a beautiful girl like nothing you've seen, downright angelic, and not only does she stop the thugs but stays behind until she's sure you're ok. What would you do in this situation? Thank her and leave, or try to form a relationship so you don't ended up starving in a ditch somewhere?

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>>148537952
It really depends. Subaru and Shinji are only good characters BECAUSE they develop from "heavily flawed and frequently counter-productive". At the beginning of their respective shows they're useless and not even genuinely good people. Towards the end of their shows they realize what they are, accept it, and take steps to become better people. If they just stayed flawed then they wouldn't be good characters. There's no arc or any story to tell.

>>148547390
I only hope that he ends up with Rem. She's a genuinely good character who shares his flaws and is aware of them, and wants to move forward and develop/mature with him as a character. They're a great couple, in terms of characterizations, because they both share actual experiences with one another, are aware of their flaws, can help each other overcome those flaws (Rem's self-sacrificing, Subaru's alternate self-aggrandizement and self-loathing, lack of ability, etc.).

>>148547707
They're called adaptations because they're adapted to a different form of media.
Adapting is used specifically because they need to adapt the material to better suit the new form.

Re:Zero anime was a shitty adaptation, because they failed to make a good series with content that is supposedly good.
They failed to develop things in the time they were allowed.

>>148547840
I disagree that it was a bad adaptation, it was well paced and faithful to the source material, a little misleading at the ending
Obviously I don't share your opinion that it is not a good anime, but "good" is subjective and there is no point in us arguing further about it

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>>148546404
The biggest tip off that those things were faked is the blatant symbolism with sloth that occurs in the show. Once you see that, the overall picture becomes pretty obvious.

>Subaru can't see Betelguese's hands in their first meeting
>Betelguese tells Subaru he's "Faking it" (the insanity)
>A few episodes later Subaru in his second encounter with Betelguese sees the hands for the first time and Betelguese is really surprised by this
>Literally the entire next episode is Subaru spilling his guts out to Rem about how lazy and pathetic he is.

I.e. He can see the hands because he's finally being honest to himself that he's lazy

He also in that conversation with Rem talks about how he was trying to get out of work at the mansion, and he really quit after the second death because he was lazy.

The LN and Manga are a little different from the anime in this particular aspect, but the anime clearly goes to obvious lengths to point out his laziness and his flaky behavior.

>>148547024
>SPOILER
I honestly hope that this is the case. It would make so much sense, especially regarding what I've heard his relationship with Rem is like towards the final battle with the whale in the novels, and improve things a lot.

>>148547913
While staying faithful to the source material is good, the changes I'm talking about are smaller things.
Little changes that would flesh out different aspects of the story, be they the world, the characters, the plot, whatever.

I disliked Re:Zero because after 25 episodes, we're left with only a small taste of literally everything, and the only thing that was remotely fleshed out was Rem's character.
After I finished it, it felt like nothing had happened, and as if none of what I had seen was worth watching, just a large waste of my time.

>>148548151
>Little changes that would flesh out different aspects of the story, be they the world, the characters, the plot, whatever.
In regards to this, I agree. Originally, the WN had a lot more world-building as early as Arc 1, but the editor for the LN decided to push off most of it to Arc 4 and leaving the characters to the early arcs. Again, the anime did not cover Arc 4 so I feel it is a little unfair to critisize it for this, however as a finished product it is indeed slightly lacking in the small things
I'm assuming you're a little interested in those, so I recommend reading this man translationchicken.com 's translations of Arc 4

>>148548341
I could stand to read it, it's not like it's the first series that had an adaptation I disliked that had better source material.

>>148547707
I (kind of) understand what you're saying, but it's not like Subaru would've starved if he didn't meet Emilia. He could've sold his phone for alot of money, and used it to buy food, transport, or children's books to start learning how to read. Pertaining to your question, I'd ask Emilia where the nearest guild/town hall was, since I'd assume they could help me more than a random girl in an alley. Also gratitude =/= falling in love immediately to obsession.

On your first point, if a show is bad because the source material is bad, then the show is bad.

>>148546629
Subaru in that instance wasn't really trying to get out of work as much as trying get praise and attention for sudokuing off the cliff, which he felt was a selfless positive decision on his part.

People who do good things often still really want to be rewarded for their acts, especially narcissists. He felt like he deserved to have Emilia and Rem give him attention, so he started acting deliberately more exhausted and stressed out around them than he really was.

>>148548530
>He could've sold his phone for alot of money, and used it to buy food, transport, or children's books to start learning how to read.
He did not know his phone's worth as demonstrated by his inability to bargain against Elsa without the Giant's help.
Even if he learned eventually, it would likely be too late as the phone's battery would have died
(Can't reply to these discussions anymore because night shift at hospital is now, I recommend you all read the source material past Arc 3 in the link I gave earlier)

>>148548530
I'm the other guy responding to him.

While I think his falling in love with Emilia because she was nice to him is ridiculous, it could make sense.
If he's the type of person who is self-loathing, and everyone always treats him like shit, someone being overtly kind to him could trigger him to be a bit obsessive.
I mean, if you're that self-loathing, you probably aren't a very sane person.

>>148548669
Wouldn't the phone battery reset every jump? The clock did.

>>148548669
Rom and Felt straight up stated an estimated figure for the phone's worth and everyone in the room said it was alot.

>>148547913
Anybody who says that the Re:Zero anime was a bad adaptation is a flat out retard.

The anime improves Subaru and Rem as characters so fucking much compared to the LN/Manga/WN it's not even funny. Vanilla source Subaru has absolutely no depth to him whatsoever. He's a fucking joke generic Isekai protag in those.

Rem is also made out to be a stupid whore who just wants toyota's cock instead of more or less somebody who looks up to him in the other interpretations.

Anybody who says the anime is bad compared to the other Re:Zero adaptations is a unironic pleb.

>>148548794
Apparently, his parents cared alot about him and were pretty understanding of his failings.

>>148549034
I'm saying it's a bad adaptation because everyone keeps claiming the LN/Manga/WN are good, and I thought the anime was bad, and did a bad job fleshing almost anything out.

If you're saying it's a good adaptation because it did a better job fleshing out than the LN/Manga/WN, then I'd have to assume that the source material is bad to begin with.

To reiterate, I have not read it. I've only seen the anime, and I thought it was bad. I'm going off what you lot are saying for the rest of it.

>>148539321
>>148540012

>The fact that you can place him next to a bunch of other really great characters, and he still hijacks the vast majority of the discussion is a testament to how well-written he is.
>If Subaru was actually badly written, he wouldn't invoke nearly as much controversy as he does.
Kek
I mean really, do you really think this way? There's no logic here.

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>>148549216
I suggest you look to the massive walls of text between several different people discussing Subaru and his relationships above your post.

>>148549216
Not him, but if he really wasn't well-written, why would we still be talking about him?
What would there be to discuss?
He'd be so simple that everyone would've had him figured out by now.
It's totally logical.

don't put subaru shit in that

>>148538067
Beta writers make shitty Gary stu character to self insert as, real writers make actual characters with flaws who grow during the story

>>148549107
The source material is just run of the mill Isekai fantasy wanking.

The WN is just a infodump of autistic thoughts by the author.

The LN is basically a heavily edited down version of the WN.

The Manga is just some random patching together of the story that doesn't really strive to do anything.

The WF anime actually takes what is basically a slightly above average Isekai story, cranks up some actual symbolism, adds a ton of depth to some of the characters, and creates a focused theme around Subaru.

>>148542268
/thread

>>148547315
Nice damage control.

>>148549315
People on anime forums are still talking about SAO and characterization of Kirito.

>>148539321
see
>>148539118

>>148538812
>The fastest way to reveal you're a pleb.
But Subaru is a fucking pleb?

>>148537952
>muh maladjusted male lead dealing with his own patheticness while some weird shit happens
This is such an overused concept, especially in manga, and /a/ sucks its dick all day long. Seriously, FKMT series, NHK, Punpun, KnH, modern Furuya Minoru series, Aku no Hana, Hanazawa series, etc. - even fucking Gantz, with its garbage attempts at character drama, gets praised for realism or whatever on a regular basis. Just make your MC a male failure, preferably an adult, and label it "psychological", and then DEEP mangafags will eat it up whether it's great or awful.

>>148549778
This. What happened to Light Novels? You wouldn't see something like Baccano, Boogiepop or Haruhi being released nowdays. Now its just super generic shows all with the same overpowered-but-beta MC with a tsundere female lead and a harem, or loser/NEET transported into isekai and becomes overpowered.
LN authors need to read something other than other light novels and watch stuff other than anime.

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Fuck you guys, I didn't want you to talk about me anyway.

>>148549298
>people respond to the part of the bait thread that was meant to incite their anger
Really makes you think.

Do any of them have a wicked sense of humor such as myself?

>>148550267
Why aren't there any anime adapted from traditional novels anyway? I feel like they'd be better than most of the LN shit we get nowadays. Maybe the studios are afraid it wouldn't sell well.

Why people are constantly mad at Mei when shitty character for brainded retards like Junkrat exist?

>>148550267
>Baccano
Nigger, Baccano literally isn't over, the last volume comes out sometime before the end of the year. And I can guarantee you he'll make something else similar soon after.

>>148537952
>subaru

HAHAHA

>>148549315
>He'd be so simple that everyone would've had him figured out by now.
Everyone who isn't an idiot has him figured out, see >>148543268. It's his fucking fans who keep trying to perpetuate "discussion" of him.

>>148550383
Goddamit wrong thread and wrong board. I'm so stupid

>>148544961
>His love for Emilia is totally unexplained (in the anime at least)
If you can't realize why he loves Emilia you may actually be retarded. The Witch of Envy is influencing him to protect her next vessel.

>>148550355
>maybe the studios are afraid
What do the studios have to do with it? The LN publishers hire them to adapt LNs, no one hires them to adapt novels. It's that simple.

>>148550355
>Why aren't there any anime adapted from traditional novels anyway?
There are, they're just few and far between.

>>148550355
> Why aren't there any anime adapted from traditional novels anyway
Because you aren't paying attention, I guess. I mean, there's two airing right now.

It's the self-insert's choice for leads. He's a failure just like me. So deep, so relatable, not just waifubait.

>>148550267
So much fucking this, Anime nowadays just lives or shitty cliches and stereotypes, Japs are so closed that by only consuming generic stuff they can only shit generic stuff. Anime has so much potential but few people who actually want to make something different.

>>148548107
The scent and hands of the witch have literally nothing to do with Subaru's personality or dispositon. He could see the hands of sloth since his scent of the witch rose significantly after telling Emilia his respawn ability.

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>>148550454
Not in the anime. It dumps a lot of that plot device stuff in favor of better writing.

In the anime he just loves Emilia because he really wants to fall in love at the beginning, she's the first person that helps him and in his mind thinks, "This must be the waifu that this world has sent me", reaffirms this delusion in his head constantly as he spends a bunch of time with her at the mansion (Enough to learn how to read an entirely new language), and actually falls in love with her.

His love for Emilia isn't even that weird. People have fallen in love before in a much shorter time, and for much dumber reasons.

>>148550401
If that's true then that's awesome, but my point still stands. 99% of LN authors are cranking out SAOs and Asterisk Wars instead of Baccanos, and the recycling of old ideas is getting ridiculous.

Subaru was the best thing about Re:Zero. Can't say much good about the rest.

>>148550821
He loves Emilia because of Satella. He had no choice.

>>148551024
Top quality bait.

>>148550383
Mei has a helplessness aspect to her victims, while Junkrat is a bit more active. Personally, I like her better because it reminds me of my Pyro days.

But anyway, an archetypical flawed hero, like many other heroes, should be spaced out more to make them more meaningful. Having too many makes it boring, and any growth is seen as predictable and tiresome.

>>148551101
But the rest of Re:Zero wasn't that good. It had good direction and a bit of sakuga parts but otherwise, the plot was a succession of incidents resulting in timeloops. And the OST wasn't great. Nor were a lot of the characters.

>>148551193
>Can't say much good about the rest.
I misread that as "Can't say much about the rest [of the anime in OP]."

>>148551280
Yeah I guessed so. 悪い

>>148551003
Not really, there are plenty of Baccano-tier LNs. They're just untranslated and unadapted. Your generalization of the entire medium is like normies who think anime is just shonenshit and haremshit

>>148551030
Again, please don't mix different interpretations of the story to explain stuff in other adaptations. The Anime intentionally leaves out some stuff from the source material to go a different direction.

In the anime, it does a bunch of symbolism with Betelguese's hands and Subaru's laziness. In the source material, it says Subaru could always see the hands, while the anime showed him not seeing them the first time.

Also Rem is kind a of a degenerate whore in the source material, while she's used in the anime far differently to do a number of things.

>>148551193
Looking back at the show, Subaru (and Rem I guess) are the most interesting only by default since none of the other characters say or do anything of any lasting significance, which is pretty astonishing in a 26 episode show.

>>148551381
If that's true then that's even more awesome and I refute my earlier statement, but why aren't there more adaptations of shows like Baccano? Why do so many studios insist on adapting what's basically the worst the LN medium has to offer?

>>148551689
Profits.

>>148537952

In Shinji's defense though, he is 14 so being a pussy is...

>>148551423
>while she's used in the anime far differently to do a number of things.
Not really, they just skipped out on various scenes.

>>148551832
Considering how shows like Baccano, Haruhi, and Boogiepop were all critically acclaimed, you'd think that more studios would look for source material similar to it. Or has the SAO boom pushed out any experimentation and creativeness in favor pandering to teenage boys?

>>148552049
This is the same problem as we're seeing with CGDCT and moeblob stuff.
The people funding projects have figured out what sells merchandise, so they fund those things.

Someone who enjoys a story buys the book, someone who likes watching Kirito fight a minotaur will buy six figures of Kirito as well as the LNs.

I don't mean to sound like a pretentious dick, this is just based off of honest observation.

>>148551689
As already mentioned, most LN adaptations are commissions. The studio doesn't typically go out and buy the rights or whatever, the rights-holder (along with other groups that stand to benefit) goes to the studios and pays them to adapt it. So the target audience for these things is the large portion of the anime-watching audience that are also plausible buyers for their books and merchandise and so on. It's not about the SAO boom, either - go back to 2006 and people like you would be asking the same questions about the KugiRie tsundere boom. This is an industry, the funders are businesses, and most of the things they choose to fund are going to be things they think they can profit from adapting. That's just how it works.

Also, the Boogiepop anime was bad and there have been tons of Haruhi clones animated (from LNs, manga, etc.), so those seem like poor examples.

>>148552451

and the best strategy for that type of business is to make an anime about a story that already exists, already has a manga, already has a LN, has figures in the works. Then the animation studio doesn't have to worry about getting an investment or fronting the capital to start a franchise that may or may not work.

This isn't exactly new, cartoons have been used to sell toys for a long long time, they have just gotten better at it.

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>>148552451
No problem anon. The thing is, I wouldn't even mind if most of these shows were decent, like Log Horizon or no game no life . The fact that such boring shows can sell so reliably doesn't bode well for creative fulfillment within the anime industry.

>>148552942
>No Game No Life
No.

>>148546757
My nigga

>>148551913
The scenes they skipped out on were to portray Rem as somebody who more idolizes Subaru than just blindly wants his dick so hard she's willing to become his mistress.

She still has romantic attraction to Subaru in the anime, but she does so more because she looks up to him, rather than viewing him as purely a potential lover. Her talking Subaru out of running away with her actually makes sense in the anime as that would have destroyed the reason why she admires him in the first place.

>>148537952
>im 14 and writing is hard

>>148537952
Subaru and re:zero are hot garbage, Having an overly vocal normalfag twitter fandom doesnt make it good, successful or relevant.

>>148553430
Great post. You totally added a lot to this thread with that.

>>148540318
Nah he's a really shitty character. Being a narcissist when you aren't jack shit both a) doesn't make much sense and b) is the worst combination of character flaws. You can only listen to a guy talk out of his ass so much before it gets mind numbingly boring.

He also is just very inconsistently written. No matter what you may think, Subaru switching between motivated and a mind-broken wreck should not have happened as frequently as it did. This makes it seem like we repeated the same character arc over and over again, which is fucking stupid even for a time travel show. Hell, his worst tantrum was resolved by him getting tortured a bunch. That's just simply retarded.

>>148537952
I like MCs that don't cry like little faggots because they remind me too much of myself

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>>148553384
>I'm 12 and think writing is easy

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>>148537952
>putting Subaru and Shinji with Kaiji and Sato

Shinji is a redundant character that stays the same for pretty much the whole show and never does anything interesting. Only pseudo-intellectuals/nostalgifags pretend he was a good character and that his series was great. Anno is, and always will be a hack, although I appreciate that someone in the staff admitted Evangelion's symbolism were actually just there to look cool instead of meaning something.

Subaru is another 'muh suffering' character. The cheapest way to appeal to the lowest common denominator is just to make the character go through tragic shit. In subaru's case is just obligatory and forced. Just edgy shit for the sake of being edgy, with no real reason, with the same beta piece of shit you see in VNs and LNs.

Kaiji actually has many more flaws that are actually his own fault and not just the writers putting the entire universe against him for no reason. And he actually does compel the viewer not just in "LOOK HOW TRAGIC I AM WAAAAAAH" way, but because of how clever he can be.

Sato is a piece of shit, and the manga/anime never forces you to feel bad for him. He's portrayed as a loser but not the kind that that begs for sympathy, but someone you can laugh at or relate to. But he can also show a kind heart/childishness. He's a great character, there's more to him than just "boo hoo please feel sad for me." And he actually does go through more meaningful and relatable character development compared to Shinji's simple generic one.

With all that said, OP could have probably picked 4 better characters than those for "patricians".

>>148554055
Self-hating narcissists not only exist, but aren't even particularly uncommon anon.

Narcissism is an extreme obsession with how others view you. You don't have to be even remotely accomplished to be a narcissist, you just have to be compulsively driven by the urge to have others view you positively, or also, not viewed negatively. Subaru knows he's a piece of shit, and doesn't care how he views himself, but having others see him negatively would absolutely bother him.

It's why prior to getting transported to the world he could live in decedence because it's like he didn't even exist to other people. When he actually develops connections with other people like Emilia, Rem, etc... he feels like he has to maintain the image that he's awesome and invicible.

>>148554510
Read Global Rules. You must be at least 18 to access this site.

>>148550086
Except that's fucking bullshit.

People mock Kirito and move on every time he is brought up. Subaru is discussed in the complete opposite way. Instead of mocking his character, people actually have to question/defend/attack his character constantly because he is so unique and different that people can't make heads or tails if he is bad or not, while Kiritos' character is considered bad period.

>>148556868
Contrarian hipsters being contrarian, reeeeeeeee:zero is a fucking flea compared to SAO popularity.

>>148556868
Kirito's mocked because he's a textbook example of a bad protagonist. People discuss Subaru because his character can be interpreted in different ways.

>>148557139
And thus makes him a unique/different character in many anime series of the same genre.

>>148556934
Go try and make a thread about Kirito that gets even 10 intelligent well articulated responses in the entire thread.

Best case scenario, the thread reaches 50 responses due to dubs spamming prolonging the thread.

The only people whom I've ever see try and glorify Kirito are dipshits who do it literally only to try and shit on Subaru who is a much much better character, and basically the exact fucking opposite of a 14 year old self-insert Gary Stu shit.

>>148539452

>Dude's a complete mess with no redeeming qualities or any drive for living, while living in crippling depression with the delusion that someone will get him out of there
>"He actually had sex before so he isn't a complete loser"

I think you're giving too much credit to sex man, idk.

>>148557227
Subaru is shit and has zero depth tho, as expected of a literal gary stu martyr

>>148557336
Normally I would just easily dismiss this as trolling, but there are actually retards who unironically think this. The Re:Zero hate bandwagon has brought some of the most underaged cancerous dipshits to /a/.

>>148557627
This your first time being a fan of a popular series? Get used to it.

>>148557627
The Kill La Kill hate bandwagon was actually a lot worse, but I agree that this one is pretty bad too. I'm glad I waited until after the show was finished to watch it.

>>148557861
except that kill la kill was actually a good show

>>148557627
>>148557861
Fuck you all, No Game No Life had it ten times worst, to the point where even discussing the series while it was airing would bring in the worst of faggots wanting to one up the hate for it.

>>148558038
I didn't watch NGNL and didn't participate in any of its threads so I have no idea.

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>>148542268
>>148549905
Exactly. Every character that is not an alpha is exactly identical.

>>148558038
>>148557896
KLK and NGNL were entertaining but not ever good enough to be worth defending on /a/ relative to how many people liked/hated it. SAO was also like "Alright" all things considered, but not even close to good enough to force me to get in to arguments or care about dubs spamming.

I only really get heated about Re:Zero because the anime actually utilizes proper fucking symbolism, character subtly, and some semi-deconstruction stuff, and the vast majority of people who hate it are underaged turds with insanely stupid arguments and spout "reddit:zero" oblivious to the fact that they're the actual people from reddit.

>>148559079
>character subtly
you mean subtlety?

and please explain the subtleties in re:zero's characters.

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>>148541876
*cough cough

>>148559351
Read the thread ADHD-kun. Subaru arguably lies and fakes a bunch of stuff in the show like the coma because he's narcissistic and lazy.

Every Subaru thread we have, this shit is spelled out for people, but idiots don't read the threads.

Goku is the best male MC of all time.

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>>148541876
It's not hard, it's just that making whiny beta characters is easier, it instantly gets people to relate to these character better, and it tricks people into thinking your show has substance it doesn't have.
Pic related is an example of an alpha MC who's as far from a Gary Stu as they come.

>>148559996

Spike is a cuck though. Vicous is more alpha than him.

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>>148541876
Kamina was a great example of an alpha non Gary Stu.

>>148560801
Yeah, but that's because the show made the effort to portray his softer side too, like when he has to psyche himself up to move the Gurren basically out of his fear of death, instead of how Simon was a natural with Lagann.

In a way Simon is really self insertish in the beginning, some nobody kid that through circumstances outside of his control, gets to prove everyone that he's actually cool. IRL, every loser kid doesn't get a Kamina. though it's not like they shouldn't, going that way with the argument is just being spiteful

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>all of this awful writing
let me show you true genius

>>148541876
By having flaws that are bigger than themselves, being screwed by not knowing everything, having flaws not related to social status, personal challenges or tragedies and so on. Being alpha doesn't mean being perfect, it just means being able to get over that you're not perfect and try as best you can to win that girl, win that job or battle etc. It's about being confident, not about being some flawless Stu.

>>148559079
>I only really get heated about Re:Zero because the anime actually utilizes
>proper fucking symbolism
>character subtly
>some semi-deconstruction stuff
>and the vast majority of people who hate it are underaged turds with insanely stupid arguments
Hahahaha, what the fuck.

Proper symbolism? Please name some in Re:Zero.
Character subtl(et)y? Please describe this in the context of Re:Zero.

Couldn't there be like an... anti-deconstruction, like, Yeah if this bogus thing happened it'd be actually pretty cool.

"You may be in a medieval fantasy universe, but if you remember anything from High school on up you could make a dime or two"

"You have magical powers but have to fight evil to protect humanity, get the gov or the media involved and you'll have basically infinite resources"

I can't really come up with any other, but the idea is there, most "deconstructions" are just spiteful writers making shit up against anything that doesn't line up with the sour their outlook. In stories, anything that happens is because of the author, never because of anything else, verisimilitude is illusory natter that works to make you believe in the authors version of events.

I know that that's also a deconstruction, if only going from the tvtropes "definition"

>>148561834
Deconstructions are stupid to begin with, there shouldn't be so many shitty trope-filled shows in the first place for it to be necessary for a show that specifically breaks them.

>>148561834
>"You may be in a medieval fantasy universe, but if you remember anything from High school on up you could make a dime or two"
Main guy in KonoSuba uses his fantasy genre knowledge to aid him in quests, the quests are mostly so he can get money.

>>148561995
"If you don't like something, don't do it" sound great, but then how will a mediocre writer set himself as superior to another.

Criticism is easier than sheer creation, for the same level of appreciation.

Then again, sometimes, subverting expectations is good, but most of the time, I feel the author is being a lot less innocent than they pretend to.

>>148537952
Kaiji was the least flawed piece of shit in the whole first season though
>tfw I still haven't watched 2nd

>>148541960
To be patrician is to like whatever professor Shekelstein likes at the moment?

>>148541960
>into post-modernism during the 1980's
Please discard this Wikipedia notion that post modernism appeared during the 80s, I mean, the best staples in the genre are older. The "flawed protagonist" is also a much older type of character. It sprung as a criticism to the heroes in Romantic literature, and prior to WW2 there are an awful lot of examples.

What you see from the 80s onward is that the majority of the creators realized that in order to best show their craft and produce 'richer' works of art that could last through the ages, they needed a narrative frame with less constraints, and a "flawed" cast which could act and react to the bitter-sweet nature of real life.

A couple of weeks ago I saw someone post something about Jane Austen, the Bronte sisters and romantic literature. Did you write that post too?

>>148561397
this guy really really hated Fist of the North Star

>>148542268
You're a retard. His post wasn't even close to being subjective. It was an objective observation of the difference between badly-constructed male protagonists and well-constructed ones.

Consider suicide please.

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>>148541876
make it so that having a gary stu doesnt look bad

>>148541876
all you have to do is make him likable and not sugarcoat his talent as something that isn't anything but sheer talent and potential.

>>148562686
>"pandering"
>not subjective
Nice try.

>>148541876
>People grow to like them instead of instantly liking them
>They aren't good at everything
It's like, two criteria to be a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. Just don't fit those two criteria. Or even just one of them.

>>148557627
>Complaining about hate bandwagons when you do the same with most popular shows like SAO

The irony of the reeeeeeeee:tard fanboy

>>148563167
Pandering might be a subjective label with no strict definition but that doesn't deny the possibility of it existing.

It's like porn. You don't have to define it in order to recognize something as it.

>>148540714
Have you read the webnovel?

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Is Kikirara-san alpha or beta?

>>148561995
you can't avoid having tropes dude, they're literally just literary tools

what you can avoid though is executing them like you're ticking boxes off a list and actually trying to put an ounce of thought into what you're creating

>>148550175
You hit the nail on the head. But I don't think it's that much of a bad thing.

>praised for realism
I believe it's more along the lines of MC not being a shitty self-insert, but instead having actual qualities which in this case are really in line with the target audience, which makes them easy to relate to. That's where the 'realism' part comes from, I think; they are just really familiar with what they see and it speaks to them in a more personal level.
I really like NHK just because of that. I'm not a NEET, but Satou's reactions to some situations (the not too exaggerated ones) and personal insecurities speak to me. And Mizaki being so clingy and openly looking down on others just so she can find a way to feel better about herself (especially in the manga) is something I have seen far too often, and I've even been there as well.

I think it's natural that things like that tend to get the seal of approval. Just relating to the characters make it that much easier to get into, or at least to merely accept that it achieved something.

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>We will never see Kaiji animated ever again.

It may be for the best, Mahjong arc is painfully slow, but it had some great new characters.

Except for pachinko I guess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SGBX3xKwFo

>>148537952
one of these dont fit

>>148541876
Simple
You don't make them a moralfag

>>148539664
>prom night
>in japan
nice b8
I think you meant graduation/farewell ceremony

also, the person he had sex with was her senpai and they mentioned/showed that clearly in both the novel and anime

>>148567494
>complaining about slow pacing
>in Fukumoto's works
All of his works are like that

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>>148538067
When they do that, fags like you tend to call them edgy and tryhards
>>148550175
/a/ digs those types of stories because there's a lot room for character development in those
and compared to works with alpha MCs who have one dimensional personality

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>>148538067
I think it's the exact opposite. The writers who lived normal, happy lives would rather have a beta MC for their story.

The beta writers who constantly live in escapism and want to translate their want for success in their work with alpha MCs.

It's kind like comedians. The funniest comedians are the ones who have really depressing and sad private lives. The best horror writers are the ones who lived happy lives.

>>148537952
Subaru is extremely grating though.

>>148570055
>The funniest comedians are the ones who have really depressing and sad private lives
proof?

>The best horror writers are the ones who lived happy lives
proof?

>>148570055
>It's kind like comedians. The funniest comedians are the ones who have really depressing and sad private lives.
You reminded me of this video and now I'm depressed again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdBJ1X33rXM

>>148544961
>The thing I dislike most about Subaru's flaws is that they're inconsistent

Definitely this. Subaru has some great moments as a character, the fact that we see his failures and he reacts accordingly is important to rationalizing his growth throughout the story, and a large part of the story is him coming to terms with his limits as a regular dude dropped in a world where everyone is several magnitudes stronger than him.

However, in the end the author backs out at the last second and lets Subaru be exactly what the story is trying to avoid, a regular shitty anime MC.

To put it more precisely, hypothetically Subaru manages to completely fuck up two times and then magically have everything go right the third time. This wouldn't be an egregious sin if the first two times were used as a base that gave him the knowledge and skill necessary to make the third loop successful, but whenever this happened it came about as if the first attempts netted him nothing but despair but the third time he just coasted past every hardship by being lucky and cocky like always.

He managed to survive against packs of magic beasts twice when he had never seen one before that loop, he manages to take down the whale in a single loop which is fucking ridiculous considering he knew nothing other than that it erases people and flies before then.

The one attempt at justifying his luck was the last arc where he lost to sloth and did it all over again, but it was very hamfisted and the sudden exclusion of rem felt like a disservice.

In the end I guess my biggest complaint is that return by death is used purely for emotional purposes and its uses as a means to collect information and try things out is sorely undervalued by the story.

I really felt that this was going to be the AOTY until the whale showed up, by then the disjointedness, the everbranching but never ending plot points, and the gross mishandling of characters bogged the story down.

>>148537952
Subaru does not belong up there.

>>148540797
It was solid but what the fuck should that count for? Every show should be solid. Every show should have the potential to not be fucking garbage. A solid show doesn't mean anything. It's literally mediocre. It doesn't strive to achieve or be better than anything and that might as well make it shit.

Like YOU.

>>148547213
>>148547315
>>148547468
Lurk 2 years before posting

>>148540797
WHAT EPISODE IS THIS SCENE FROM?

>>148550267
Blame the consumers, not the industry.

>>148562578
lurk 2 years before posting, newfag

>>148538871
I wouldn't go around using shield hero as an example of anything.

>>148544961
He never abuses his Return by Death because he literally doesn't know squat about it
Noone has told him how it works and the only information he has about the power is that it's somehow related to Satella and she MAY be the one responsible
Due to the circumstances of the curse he can't even talk to anyone about his power meaning the stuff he does know about it are just assumptions made by himself based on the few times he died(in the beginning)
This basically leaves him in the dark in the first few episodes because he isn't even sure that he will return once he dies That's probably the reason why he didn't immediately kill himself when Rem died the first time. I mean dying is a pretty big deal and seeing how they wanted to make honda as relatable to a normie as possible, one can understand why he would be scared.
What if there was even the smallest chance that this time he'd actually die? What if there were a limited number of times he could return? These thoughts were bound to pop up in his head sometime or the other but after dying the number of times he did in the anime, his assumptions become more certain and slowly he finds more confidence in the fact that he will return.
But don't forget that he still couldn't tell anyone about his power so, if you think about it, honda had to bear the whole burden by himself and that's pretty respectable if you ask me

>>148539676
Sounds like Overlord.

>>148538871
>Shield hero

Shield hero was dripping with pathos to the point of overdoing it, but because it's something most /a/nons know a lot about (rejection by society) we ate that shit up like it was the last slice of pizza.

But after that the story quickly revealed itself to be empty of any direction or thematic ideas. It basically descends into a regular LN with little bits here and there about how hard it is to live on the edge of society while making it moot since the MC already has fino and most people who know him instantly or nearly instantly suck his shield dick, while all the bad guys are hilariously incompetent and evil to a ridiculous degree.

>>148547840
Well the majority including meself thinks that it was a pretty good adaptation
But that could be because the majority haven't read the WNs or the LNs, meself included
I remember how I thought the harry potter movies were garbage after the third one because they were nothing like the books so I can see why you may think Re zero was bad

>>148571334
If you think it was a good adaptation because it was faithful, then you really don't understand what makes a good adaptation.

>>148548151
Anime adaptations do cost quite a bit and from what I've heard Re zero is actually a huge series and it has quite a few volumes
So it's obvious they wouldn't be able to show much in 25 episodes, that's like half of the east blue arc which is pretty small compared to the whole of one piece
But then again, they did a pretty good job of showing that small part. It's like they're telling us that was just the tip of the iceberg
Having only seen the anime, that gets me pretty excited

>>148540012
>If Subaru was actually badly written, he wouldn't invoke nearly as much controversy as he does.
All the controversy is toward the people saying he is a good, well-written character though.

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>>148537952
Shinji and Lelouch, while on complete opposite sides of the spectrum, are my two all time favorite MCs. Shinji is painfully relatable and realistic, while Lelouch is just an absolute blast to watch.

>>148537952
I know this image is b8, but I'm still mad. So good job I guess, OP.

>>148538871
>Can't think of many more
Kenshiro
Ryoma, Hayato and Musashi
Golgo 13
Black Jack
Yukimura Sanada
Shotaro Kaneda

>>148571394
Yeah the truth is I haven't read the LNs so to me it's just a good ANIME
I have no idea how it's told in the books but the anime was nice
So yeah, I can see how it could be a bad adaptation

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>>148537952
All of this Subaru hate

>Subaru: “Every human is a creature of sin, for which living cannot proceed devoid of victims. Thus, we may have become criminals upon the very instant of our conception in this world. But even so, people live. They are aware that although it produces victims, they cannot acquire things of worth without creating those victims... or such kind of philosophical banter feels pointless with a little girl but, is that what you mean?”

If only Whitefox added his monologues this wouldn't have gone down the shitter.

>>148571730
He only ever has those monolouges whenever he's not around Emilia though. When he is around Emilia he acts like an absolute tard

>>148571521
I tend to love those Keikaku-type MCs like in CG, DN, and even BB, ESPECIALLY when they get out-keikaku'd and lose their shit. Lelouch in particular, is probably among my Top 3 MCs.
I like Re:Zero, but Subaru just falls way too short when compared to Shinjin. Shinjin is an actually believable character, he lacks confidence but going through what he goes through would fuck anyone up.
Subaru is supposed to be a shut-in but somehow can take out thugs and is confident with girls from the very beginning. It's not that he's a bad character, and it's kinda refreshing to have someone like him in this genre of anime, but he doesn't stand out compared to other characters of this type

>>148571475
>>148571634
What got you excited? I'm asking honestly, because absolutely nothing about this show felt interesting to me.

For me, I felt like nothing ever went anywhere, and that was incredibly frustrating.
Characters just disappeared immediately after they were introduced, entire plot lines were dropped after their introduction, there was little advancement on the central plot, they didn't try to build any sort of world at all, it's just a bunch of small set pieces, even the fight scenes weren't that fun to watch.
When the show actually did something to interest me, they didn't bother to follow up.
The magic was a perfect example for this.
All we ever see is Subaru shooting his fucking smoke everywhere, and sometimes Puck does things.

tl;dr - the show was incredibly boring. Largely average, and whenever they caught my interest, it failed to follow through.

But I am curious to see what you enjoyed so much about it.

Season 2 never lolol

>>148541876
Read Lolita.

ahh..it is my time to see people hate Subaru

/a/ is saved

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>>148573364
Its as if you hate character development.

>>148571521
I wouldn't say Shinji is realistic. His self-loathing and depression are actually quite exaggerated. But Evangelion wouldn't had been Evangelion without Shinji.

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>>148537952
>Reddit Zero's mc
Nice bait thread, you'll get at least 500 replies, OP.

>>148573470
stop with the bad character development meme please

>>148538067
It's even worse when you look at LNs, they MCs are either beta or edge-lords.

Throw in some terrible Japanese romance and the rest writes itself.