Fullmetal Alchemist vs Hunter x Hunter

>>148502256
Well, one actually ended.

>>148502256
FMA, by a country fucking mile.

>>148502256
> Another greatest FMA/shounen thread.
Fuck you.

>Comparing a series that ended to one that is perpetually on hiatus
stop

>>148502256
Replace HxH with Kenshin or death Note

FMA
>endearing characters
>elaborate story
>mercifully short

Hunter x Hunter
>attention to characters
>thematic ambition
>originality

How about both?

HxH has tournament arcs and powerlevels while FMA doesn't

so if you are going by lack of shounen cliches, FMA

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>>148502256
From those 2 FMA easily.


But you don't know what shonen means, pic related is shonen.

>>148502256
fma because its actually finished

i like that chrollo cover though

From what's already been published, HxH is a tier above FMA. If Togashi completes the story while maintaining the same standard of quality writing, it will handily eclipse FMA and most other manga.

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FMA

It's not my favourite series, but I consider Fullmetal Alchemist to be objectively one of the best mangas of all time.

Consistently high quality in all fields, if not the leader in any.

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>>148503723
Cover is traced though.

>>148502296
SAVAGE
A
V
A
G
E

>>148502256
FMA was great and then it fell apart in the last part, becoming some generic shounen type shit.
HxH is great but Togashi needs to hurry the fuck up and end it already.

The greatest shounens are still Dragon Ball and One Piece.

>>148505258
>criticizes FMA for becoming a generic shounen
>goes on to praise DB and OP
What the fuck?

>>148504577
Didn't know Togashi pulled this shit too.

FMA and it shouldn't even really be an argument. Hunter X Hunter has ONE arc that is creative and interesting, but outside of that, it's really just run-of-the-mill boring battle shonen.

FMA is actually a coherent focused story. 2 kids get their shit fucked up trying to revive their mother, set out in to the world to find a way to regain their limbs, the end.

Hunter X Hunter is just a bunch of people with an ever-changing set of goals meandering around aimlessly.

>>148505734
What a reductive and terrible post. The final arc of FMA is more generic shounen than anything in HxH (which is consistently subversive for the most part), and its ending is the most cheesy Disney-tier shit ever. Compare that to the masterful endings of arcs like Yorkshin and CA, and it's no contest.

>Hunter X Hunter is just a bunch of people with an ever-changing set of goals meandering around aimlessly.
That's what makes it realistic and non-generic.

>>148503767
Fuck off

>>148502256
Tokyo Ghoul

>>148504349
>most other manga.
>most
Why do people say shit like this as though it's an accomplishment? That's just the top half. You're talking about an entire fucking medium, something could be the thirty-thousandth-best manga and it'd still be better than "most" of the medium. Have these people read like twenty manga or something?

>>148505996
>That's what makes it realistic and non-generic.
Neither of those things make it good, though.

>>148502256
FMA was great right up until the finale, which let's face it, went into full retard territory.
HxH has one good arc and after that it's all been beating a dead horse

>>148506155
Not in and of themselves obviously, but the unpredictable narrative structure and use of intentional anti-climaxes are part of what make HxH so compelling.

>>148506331
We probably just need to agree to disagree, but I don't really find that stuff compelling. Subversion isn't really as great or interesting to me as a lot of people make it out to be - if you want to tell a non-generic story, you could always just tell a non-generic story, you don't get many points from me by structuring it like a generic one and then slightly changing it.

>>148506460
>if you want to tell a non-generic story, you could always just tell a non-generic story
Which HxH does on an arc to arc basis.

What's wrong with FMA ending
Are you one of those edgy faggots who thinks the original Anime ending is better

>>148506523
No, it's full of battle shounen traits and narrative features, it just selectively applies them so people get all excited about subversions and deconstructions and whatever.

>>148506699
No it isn't, its "shounen traits" are superficial at best. Unlike FMA which at first glance seems non-shounen but ends up being a generic conflict about the good guys beating up the bad guys.

HxH by miles, FMA is generic shonen garbage babys first anime full of plot armors and retarded humor.
HxH on the other is amazingly written and actually interesting.

>>148502296
>>148502344
>>148502849
>>148502858
>>148503723
>>148504365
>>148505734

>all those MAL tier faggots

Holy shit /a/ is really fucked up...

HxH,for me FMA was so forgettable and the ending was shit

>>148504365
>I consider Fullmetal Alchemist to be objectively one of the best mangas of all time.
I'm sure is the only manga you have read, fucking retard.

>>148506523
>card games
>tournament arc
>Cell and his minions invade
Sure.

>>148506957
Thanks for proving my point with those superficial readings of subversive arcs. You even cited CA, kek.

>>148507012
>subversive
You're the one proving my point, retard.

>kek
>>>/out/

>>148502256
>Which is the best shounen series?
Neither of these

>>148505996
>That's what makes it realistic and non-generic

Like hell it does. That's in fact one of the single most annoying and common aspects of battle shonen, and it's because it's almost always just an unplanned gimmick to milk a series.

The characters run out of clear and concise goals and just start fighting the next random baddie. DBZ in particular just went to complete shit writing-wise post-Freiza because Toriyama stopped writing a real story. The Raditz, Sayian, and Namek saga were all clearly planned out, and flowed in to each other really well. After that, it was just like, "What do we do next guys?"

OP, Naruto, and Bleach also did/do another version of this by continually adding more and more shit out of nowhere to put between the characters and their apparent goals to create the illusion that it's not a half-assed money grab.

Hunter X Hunter basically does the same thing as the old big 3, except gets abnormally more praise than it should because one of the arcs was pretty ambitious by shonen standards. Like, who the fuck is Lerio? He does absolutely fucking nothing in the series, yet sticks around in the show for seemingly no real reason. He's a joke character that Togashi just introduced at the beginning and forgot to do anything meaningful with.

>>148507159
The other guy will try to shit on you because Leorio became relevant for the last 20 chapters out of 350, but you're absolutely right.

>>148507159
Except there are no "baddies" to fight in HxH (with maybe the exception of Genthru), arcs constantly switch main characters to the point where Gon and Killua are irrelevant in the current arc, and Gon is the only character without a "clear and concise goal" with it being an actual part of his characterization, not some writing oversight. Nice failed comparison to DBZ and other generic shonenshit.

>He does absolutely fucking nothing in the series, yet sticks around in the show
No he doesn't. He can't stick around with Gon and Killua because he has his own priorities, and in the Election arc it becomes part of his character (his guilt for not being around for Gon).

You either never read/watched HxH, saw it a long time ago and forgot what it's actually like, or are shitposting.

>>148507243
And this current arc is poised to be the longest arc in this entire series. You're getting your Leorio, and his character arc will be up to the immensely high standards of Togashi.

Why does /a/ overrate HxH so much?

>MALmetal Normalfag
Wow, I wonder

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>>148506926
No need to be so upset, anon

>>148507418
>And this current arc is poised to be the longest arc in this entire series.
It's poised to be maybe 40 chapters long by the time Togashi dies of old age.
>You're getting your Leorio
That doesn't somehow erase his total irrelevance for about fifteen years.
>and his character arc will be up to the immensely high standards of Togashi
You're delusional, battleshounenfag.

>>148507498
CUTE boy!

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>>148507564
The cutest

>>148505390
Dragon Ball isn't generic, it started the trend. It was original at its time and then everything else copied

>>148507429
Sunk cost fallacy.

>>148507557
Hiatus meme, butthurt over Leorio not being a main character like it's a narrative flaw, and projecting your obsession with battle shounen onto a series with a grand total of one battle arc. Incredible post.

>>148507644
I hear this all the time but you can't be implying there were no shounen that followed the new bad guy appears -> train -> beat new bad guy -> repeat formula before DB.

>>148507657
>hiatus meme
It's not even a meme, there is factually good reason to believe this arc will not be completed.
> butthurt over Leorio not being a main character like it's a narrative flaw
Just hanging around and popping up occasionally contributing basically nothing makes him pretty dumb, yeah.
> projecting your obsession with battle shounen onto a series with a grand total of one battle arc
What the fuck? Which arc are you even talking about? The Hunter exam one? Literally every arc except maybe the election has been chock-full of battles.

>>148507429
/a/ secretly likes battle shonen, and HxH gets hyped to high hell because it had one admirable unique arc (which is barely even connected to the rest of the generic story), so people way overrate the one series that is considered acceptable to like on /a/

>>148507657
>a grand total of one battle arc
Do you seriously believe this?

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>>148507805
>one admirable unique arc
Which ones that?
I've always thought the Exam arc was the best arc. Felt more like an adventure than anything that has come since.

>>148507768
>It's not even a meme, there is factually good reason to believe this arc will not be completed.
It is a meme, and you are a newfag who was not around when people said the same thing about CA.
>Just hanging around and popping up occasionally contributing basically nothing makes him pretty dumb, yeah.
"Having his own agency and priorities makes him pretty dumb, yeah." Go back to One Piece.
>What the fuck? Which arc are you even talking about? The Hunter exam one? Literally every arc except maybe the election has been chock-full of battles.
Hunter Exam has no actual fights, just Killua murdering the prisoner and the final phase where the fights are skipped. Yorkshin has one fight in total. Greed Island is a card game and the climatic "battle" is a dodgeball game. Chimera Ant is a deliberate subversion of shounen powerlevel tropes. The Election and Dark Continent arcs need no explanation.

>>148507892
That's why you're a retarded, the best arc is Yorknew.

>>148507728
People always hype DB and shit on DBZ, but the truth of the matter is, the earliest part of DBZ was arguably more influential and original in its time than DB was.

People think it looks generic now because everyone in the industry has copied so many things from DBZ, while DB's general brand of story-telling is still pretty unique to DB.

>>148507920
>It is a meme, and you are a newfag who was not around when people said the same thing about CA.
I was around, actually. Togashi's condition has clearly gotten much worse. Right now we are over four years into the Dark Continent arc and have gotten 20 chapters. Four years into the Chimera Ant arc we'd gotten over 50.

> Having his own agency and priorities makes him pretty dumb, yeah
There are millions of characters in every story with their own agency and priorities - if those priorities are boring and don't contribute to the story, you don't include them. Reality is dull.
> Hunter Exam has no actual fights
Just a bunch of monsters attacking and Hisoka killing people and the multiple final-round fights that we do see before the rest are skipped?
> Yorkshin has one fight in total
You need to reread the manga, I'm not even responding to the rest of this shit.

>>148507159
t. FMA baby first anime

HxH btfo

>>148502256
I'm not planning on reading Hunter x Hunter until it's done so I guess I won't find out in my lifetime.

>>148508228
>reading

watch the 2011 version retard.

>>148508194
You mean FMA btfo?

>>148507159
It's a shame it's happening to One Piece too. It used to be so good. I wish it would just end already.

>>148508305
Why? It's not done.

>>148508331
One Piece was always mediocre, it just stayed consistently mediocre instead of starting out good but going to shit like Naruto and Bleach.

>>148508376
No it wasn't. It was pretty good.

>>148508305
looks super uninspired, no thanks

>>148508425
Not really.

>arrive at new island
>island is being terrorized
>Leafy beats up the bad guy while everyone else beats up his lackeys
>rinse and repeat for hundreds of chapters

Textbook mediocre shounen.

fma is a more stable series, it's not that bad, but it's not that good either, a safe and overally good series
hxh has many downfalls, but I'd say that it has higher highs than fma as well

>>148508497
No it's good. It has world build, it has a nice set, it has continuity, it has touching stories, but now it has furries.

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Have these ever been translated?

>>148508326
Nope

Both Arakawa and Togashi had time to think about their scripts. FMA and HxH would never be so praised. On a weekly basis, under the pressure of audience, the story would be very different.

So, I vote for One Piece.

Squiggly lines excuse for art, arcs almost completely disconected from each other, one of the supposed main characters does nothing for nearly the whole manga,5 chapters per year, overflowing with cliches like training arcs, powerup and tournaments

VS

Well craft and masterfully put together story, planned from begging to end, where every character plays a relevant role with no overused ciches

>>148508717
>FMA and HxH would never be so praised without that benefit.*

I'm hopelessly in love with HxH but you're delusional if you think it's objectively superior to FMA in any way.

>>148508787
Arakawa Togashi and Oda had knowledge assitents and financial return to support them FMA, HxH and OP would never be so praised without that benefit

So I vote for my home made manga

See how this goes? You can't just take credit away from a work just because the creator had better opportunities than others, oda can't get a head start just because he does it weekly

>>148502256
FMA is shit its HURR THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP, and its main villain had a shitty goal LOL I WANTS TO BECOME GOD AND SHIET so let me transmute an entire fucking country. I was so fucking mad at the end of the last chapter.

HxH has shitty art and bores me to death because it has no fucking consistent plot.

I'm not even somebody who thinks FMA is a masterpiece or anything, but the delusion surrounding how good HxH is has gotten out of hand.

HxH was only ever considered "Good" when you compare it to similar series like Nardo, Wan Piss, Fairy tail, etc...

FMA doesn't quite fit in that category of battle shonen clearly separated by different arcs, and it is assuredly MUCH much better than HxH, as is any series that actually utilizes proper story telling instead of

>Characters reveal their dream -> training arc -> tournament arc -> testing arc -> beat a bad guy -> another training arc -> beat another bad guy -> a war arc -> another training arc -> etc...

>>148508923
You're delusional if you think "objectively superior" exists in art. I subjectively think HxH is better than FMA in every facet of storytelling.

>>148509129
>HxH was only ever considered "Good" when you compare it to similar series like Nardo, Wan Piss, Fairy tail, etc...
Maybe until Yorkshin. From then it became a general good series to anyone with taste.
>FMA doesn't quite fit in that category of battle shonen clearly separated by different arcs, and it is assuredly MUCH much better than HxH, as is any series that actually utilizes proper story telling instead of
HxH doesn't follow that formula you posted either. When do they even "beat a bad guy" in HxH?

>>148502256
FMA is superior in all regards save Togashi is better at writing fights.

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>>148502256
FMA.

Hiatus x Hiatus is overrated shit and Togashi is a hack.

And I don't mean it as a buzzword criticism that shitposters use.

I'm actually serious when I say he's a hack because he's not even fucking trying anymore.

He releases maybe 4 chapters a year and then suddenly goes, "Um, ow my back..." and goes on hiatus again and again.

And every time this is brought up HxHfags ALWAYS defend Togashi since he almost got worked to death with Yu Yu Hakusho, resulting in it getting cancelled, so he deserves a pass.

Well you know what? That was more than 20 fucking years ago, so that shit is irrelevant at this point.

Togashit is a shitty mangaka with an even shittier fanbase.

>>148508717
>Oda should be praised for writing a story where he has to bullshit new ideas off the top of his head instead of writing a planned out story

Ok, I guess we shouldn't hold it against L O S T for never having planned shit out either and utalized a gimmick of throwing more and more questions at the audience without never actually planning to answer them.

>>148502256
Magi

jojo

>>148509225
>You're delusional if you think "objectively superior" exists in art

The only way you can think this is if you also philosophically believe that subjectivity is completely random and humans are just all magical special snowflakes instead beings which were logically formed and evolved together following a consistent set of physical laws.

I know somebody is gonna respond to this with a fedora post, but subjectivity at it's core is bullshit. You CAN form objective standards of value in art because we all think, for the most part, very similar.

>>148509455
t. dumb teenager who has never experienced back pain, let alone chronic back pain

>>148504577
Anon, I don't think you know what tracing is.

>>148509006
Assistants only help to finalize the artistic part ("the easy part", according to Takehiko Inoue and Naoki Urasawa). Arakawa and Togashi have more time. Time to think about the story. Time to create a more coherent plot. Time to research new ideas. Time to sleep 4 hours instead of 2. You can say whatever you want, but it's a big advantage over those who work on a weekly basis without breaks. Compare the arc of the Tower with the arc of the Ants, what they have different? The benefit of time.

Plus: they don't have to worry so much about the public response as the Boku no Heros, Nanatsus and Magis do. The author of Vinland Saga knows this very well.

so what is everyone's top 5 shounen?

>>148509482
Relax. Of course we can criticize him. But it is undeniable despite the lack of time and space, he was able to build a very interesting world. With more freedom, One Piece would be a lot better.

>>148509945
1. Jojo
2. FMA
3. HxH
4. Fist of the North Star
5. One Piece

>>148509945
1. JoJo
2. Hunter x Hunter
3. DB
4. Gash
5. FMA

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>>148502256
FMA no contest. There’s a reason we don’t get threads about FMA all that often.
It’s really hard to complain about.

But they’re both great.

>>148509799
I have scoliosis due to me being flatfooted you shithead.

I have to wear orthotics in my shoes to keep my spine straight everyday.

Do you see ME bitching and moaning about it and using it as an excuse for shitty work ethic? No.

So shut the fuck up and quit riding Togashi's dick.

>>148510057
>>148510105
>JoJo
But that's Seinen now.

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Had FMA Brotherhood veered more into the morally ambiguous areas that FMA 2003 seemed to be going for, and if the final villain wasn't just straight up "evil", I'd argue it would have been one of the best anime ever. Instead, it's a high tier character-focused anime that has a slightly rushed conclusion (compared to the manga) and a run of the mill "happy ending". It absolutely could have been greater, but it's by no means bad.

Hunter x Hunter is just generic. If you pick any random episode from Hunter x Hunter and put it up against any random episode of Bleach, Blue Exorcist, or Fighting Foodons, you'll easily see they're all about similar quality - same generic plot, same generic characters, same generic powerups, same generic scuffles, etc, just with different names.

>>148509945
1 - FMA
2 - Yotsuba
3 - Yu Yu Hakusho
4 - Rurouni Kenshin
5 - Gintama

>>148510405
Jojo Parts 1-6 specifically, then.

>>148509945
Yotsuba
JoJo
Dragon Ball
HxH
Ao no Exorcist

HxH isn't even the best Togashi manga

>>148502256
Only thing shit about FMA was the ending and that little chink shit.

>>148509945
Urusei Yatsura
JoJo
Hokuto no Ken
Black Jack
Hunter x Hunter

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>>148510547
How can you not love martial arts loli? She's adorable.

>>148506868
All that salt in your veins can't be healthy, lad.

>>148510623
FMA had too many pointless fluff characters.

>>148502256
I like FMA, but HxH is an absolute masterpiece and probably the only reason I still care about manga.

>>148510670
It did a pretty great job giving every charactera relevant role though

>>148502256
Full Metal Alchemist no doubt, I don't know why you put HxH in there, at best it's mid-high.

>>148508717
What the fuck? This shit is irrelevant - if they're better, they're better. You don't get to be better even though you're worse just because you have an excuse for it. If you were talking about the creators' talent, that might be different.

>>148510683
> HxH is an absolute masterpiece and probably the only reason I still care about manga
Jesus Christ, I hope you aren't serious.

>>148509799
Ashihara from World Trigger has chronic back issues, at best he takes 1 week break every 3 months or so. The only time he was out of comission for more than 1 week is when he broke his arm, yet he was working with a broken arm a little later.

Of course, Ashihara is a new mangaka so he has to work hard if he wants people to give a fuck about his work. Togashi made YYH 30 years ago and is now married to a rich woman so he doesn't need nor cares about working that much.

And I said Ashihara because it's just the first example I could think of, but there's a lot of mangaka famous and not so famous that work their asses off. Fuck Togashi

>>148509945
Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe.

>>148506868
O MY RUBBER NEN

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>>148509945
1-BECK
2-FMA
3-Kyo Kara Ore Wa!!
4-Ichigo 100%
5-B't X

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>>148506868
>hxh isn't mal tier

>>148509786
Good to see nobody is gonna try and rebuke this post.

There is no problem in enjoying things that are fun, but the moment you actually unironically imply that "Good" and "Entertaining to you" are interchangeable qualities, is when you've crossed in to retard territory.

I could stare at a literal piece of shit all day, declare it the greatest masterpiece of all time, but as far as it's relevant to 99.9999% of the population, there are inumerable criticisms that exist to describe my opinion as objectively idiotic.

>>148511024
>Good to see nobody is gonna try and rebuke this post.
I've gotten into that argument too many times. It just devolves into weapons-grade autism from both sides and there's almost literally zero chance that either of us will change our minds.

>>148502256
Not comparable at all

>>148502296
Correct

What does it matter if your favorite manga is better than someone else's favorite manga? Just read both, holy shit. If you really like manga, you're probably willing to sit through something you don't particularly like to at least see if there's anything worthwhile about it. The ideal is to read as much variety as you can.

FMA is significantly better paced, HxH takes a while to get going.

>>148511024
Define "good," then.

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>>148508614
the bigger question is, when is watarui going to stop teasing us and draw some Pitou lewds? He makes her look too delicious.

some pages have been translated on danbooru I believe.

>>148510766
No hiatus:
>Exam
>Tower
>Greed island

Hiatus:
>York Shin
>Chimera Ants

I'm not saying without time they would be bad writers, I'm saying that with more time (to think, to create) they can be great.

>>148506868
>full of plot armors
killua's sister says what?

>>148511634
You're missing my point - it doesn't matter why the series is good, it's still good. You can't say "One Piece is the best because it's written under more difficult circumstances," that's not how this works.

>>148505407
When you write weekly (Yeah, Yeah I know) you need to take a few shortcuts.
To be fair this looks closer to modeling as opposed to a more direct rip off

I would guess many artists have used MMA, Boxing or Pro Wrestling as a reference for fist fighting.

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We can all agree at least that the original anime adaptations were far superior than the one that followed later.

Hunter x Hunter overall has a darker tone as well as deeper characters.
It excels in every aspect that people love in FMA.

>>148506106
Chill out man

>>148502256
Naruto is the best shounen.

Can someone explain to me what's so great about FMA? I'm not shitposting I've read and while I wouldn't call it bad by any means it's not that great either. Is it just a nostalgia thing?

>>148511342
Something is "good" when it does things that can clearly be described to other people in a way that resonates admirably with most people, or at least people who's opinions you care about.

You'd be hard-pressed to find somebody who thinks originality is bad, thematic consistency is bad, character development is bad, etc..,

I've watched and enjoyed many things which I wouldn't consider good, nor expect or want other people to consider good. I actually watched and enjoyed HxH, even the generic arcs, but I generally argue against it on /a/ because it's not that good from a literary standpoint.

>>148511991
I honestly have no idea
People shove it on a high pedestal and tell everyone to look how great it is or how its a wolf in sheep's clothing (in regards to it being more seinen than shounen)

I really don't see it, My guess would be nostalgia. It aired on TV so it was probably a lots of people's first "real" exposure to anime.

>>148511999
>it's not that good from a literary standpoint
http://wrongeverytime.com/2014/08/04/imperfect-beings-hunter-x-hunter-and-the-chimera-ant/

>>148511991
It's one of the few manga where the author understood how to properly structure a story and actually ended it without it being milked to death.

>>148512438
But the final part is still at odds with the rest of the manga tonally and it's ultimately a pretty shallow story. I'm not saying FMA is bad, but also not seeing why people put it in the same league as HxH.

>>148511999
>Something is "good" when it does things that can clearly be described to other people in a way that resonates admirably with most people
I think you've misunderstood the word "objective," because as soon as you start talking about people's responses, especially "most" people's responses, that's subjective.

>>148512438
I think you haven't read very many manga. Seriously, "milked to death"? Do you only read 20-volume+ fighting series, or what?

>>148511991
>>148512207
It's just generally a solid all-around story, alchemy is a unique and thoroughly designed mechanism in the series, and the characters are likeable and well-written.

Basically, it just holds up really well to criticism for what it sells itself as. It's something that while you might not love it, it's really tough to hate.

>>148512609
I knew this reply was coming. He is obviously talking from the perspective of battle shounen, your post contributes nothing

>>148512686
>says "manga"
>he clearly was talking about battle shounen
Not really.

Hard to compare because FMA is finished, and is essentially just one main arc while HxH is a bunch of arcs, but I have to say HxH. FMA is consistently very good and polished the whole way through, HxH has more ups and downs but when it's good, it's really fucking impressive and often genuinely surprising. In the end, the series I'll consider more interesting is the one that's unpredictable, creative and ambitious the way HxH is rather than something that is great in a more 'safe' way like FMA, with fewer lows but also fewer highs.

>>148511991
I'm probably the exception here but I really generally don't watch shounen, and so FMA is the only one I've ever watched/read all the way through and had a positive opinion of. It didn't have any of the obnoxious fanservice characters or powerlevel wankery that I normally hate, and I thought the story, setting, and characters, especially the antagonists, were really interesting and creative, as well as well written for what they are. Most importantly it didn't drag on for way longer than it fucking should have. To it's detractors credit though, the comedy was pretty often atrociously badly timed, and the ending did feel rushed in the anime. I don't really see the issue with it being a "power of friendship" type ending though; I thought it fit pretty well with the themes the show was working from. I'm probably less exposed to that trope than people who watch a lot of shounen though so who knows.

>>148512671
I wouldn't call it that solid of a story, though. The antagonists are uniformly underdeveloped, the finale feels lacking, and a lot of the characters feel shallow and extraneous (particularly the furry pals).

The fans of FMA never really explain how the story is good and seem to consider it something unquestionable. Like, love or hate HxH, its fans will write you on essay on why they think the characters are complex and engaging, the stories are solidly constructed, etc

>>148512686
This is a result of the magazine not the author.
Shonen Jump or any magazine wants to make money as such the will run a story into the ground until it's no longer profitable.

With that said: That's bullshit, Many many MANY series end before being "milked to death"
In fact many series have it the other way around and end before even getting a chance to hit off.

If FMA's best asset is that the ending wasn't as shit as Dragonballs was, Its not much to stand on.

>>148512671
>alchemy is a unique and thoroughly designed mechanism in the series
I thought it was wasted to be honest. It has so much potential as a mix of science and magic but it wasn't used very creatively to solve problems through science, most of the time it was just used to fuck with the ground.

>>148512837
Have you seen HxH? It has neither fanservice nor powerlevel wankery too, and the antagonists are often the highlights of any given arc. Definitely worth checking out if you want something more ambitious.

>>148512989
Yeah, the author seemed really poorly researched on that aspect.

FMA was good/great until the final part, which was a mix of great, mediocre, and shitty parts. HxH has 1.5 good arcs and a whole lot of boring.

>>148512570
People feel subjectively about things for objective reasons though. If you can't ask yourself, "Why do I like this?" and "Are the reasons I like this reasons that everybody should like this?" and stuff along those lines, you lack self-awareness.

>>148502256
FMA Brotherhood. HxH might have parts that surpass it like the Ant Kings fights and such. But FMA is more consistent and has far better pacing. One golden moment and tons of shit ones isn't comparable to some golden moments and a decent show.

>>148506868
>HxH isn't generic
>KILLLALLAL IS MY FRRRRIEND I WANNA PROTECT!!!
>GON IS MUH FRIEND I MUST SAVE

Just because it has some violence for a shonen show doesn't mean its not generic as fuck. Pretty much every character is a giant trope red eyed cuck was just a reskinned Sasuke at the beginning for fuck sakes and didn't go much of anywhere.

You just ignore the shitty plot/characters because the fighting is decent and some of them are charming.

>>148513003
I have not. It's on the list of things to check out solely on the merit of /a/ talking about it so much, but it's hard to bring myself to start something that's so long running when I've been nearly exclusively watching 1 or 2 cour shows for so long.

Father is a great antagonist honestly i always enjoyed his development. He was so hungry for freedom he began to crave everything and by doing so there was no real freedom from him since he perceived everything as shackles.

The reverse circle was kinda bullshit though. I've never seen such a giant instant cope out when a villain succeeds
>Yeah i got god
>Well we set this up in the backround here is how i did it over the course of years haha

Fuck Hoe

>>148513384
He's decent but doesn't compare at all to characters like Meruem and the RGs.

>>148513420
Meruem was shit because of the shows terrible pacing. It becomes unbelievable to believe this character has gained such high perception of the world and empathy for others so quickly after starting a murdering monster. Ant superiority or otherwise the pacing of his development was bullshit. Where as Fathers development makes sense even if he was a little faggot ass edge lord who tipped his fedora with ant metaphors every 5 seconds.

Also
>Other RGs
>Good

Youpi was literally the only good one.
>Butterfly cunt is just protecting the king the entire time with hardly any development of his own besides hating the blind girl
>Cat cunt has some development in wanting whatever their king wished but still almost as little as the above.

Youpi was a cool mofo though.

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>>148513300
I actually can't fathom how people think the most superficial, often inaccurate, paraphrasing of a plot point becomes an argument as long as they misspell words to make it sound retarded.

Gon and Killua have an unhealthy friendship, with dependence on Killua's end and dismissiveness on Gon's end. The entire climax of the CA arc revolved around the flaws in their relationship, culminating in them splitting up. They have one of the least generic friendships in battle shounen because it's so overtly imperfect and they treat each other badly, despite loving each other.

It blows my fucking mind that people can blatantly ignore major plot points to make their nonsensical arguments.

>>148513538
It just shows the average intellect of people who dislike HxH.

>>148502256
fma

>>148509498
Good taste

>>148513156
> People feel subjectively about things for objective reasons though
The facts that cause them to respond that way may be objective, but that they cause that response is because of subjectivity. There's no way around this - once you talk about responses, it's subjective.

>>148507159
>OP, Naruto, and Bleach also did/do another version of this by continually adding more and more shit out of nowhere to put between the characters and their apparent goals to create the illusion that it's not a half-assed money grab

Not really. If One Piece was written by Togashi Luffy would be pirate king by now in a similar manner to how Gon accomplished his goal of finding his dad. There'd be nothing wrong with continuing to explore his life from there, as long as actual progress is being made.

>because one of the arcs was pretty ambitious by shonen standards

Praise for HxH is split between York Shin and Chimera Ant. To have not one, but two, arcs of that caliber is an impressive achievement for any shonen, and the remaining arcs are all above average, at minimum. The current arc with the Princes appears to be following suit with York Shin.

>>148513420
Bringing up Full Metal Alchemists always reminds me of how much better the Phantom Troupe was than the homunculi.

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None of them, FMA is good, but not enough to be considered one the best shonen ever made, and HxH is just trash after the auction arc.

>>148514947
The Homunculi from 2003 were great compared to the Manga version.

What shonens are better than HxH?

>>148515802
>FMA Homunculi > FMA:B Homunculi

With the exception of Father (as he's actually a Homunculi), I completely agree. The 2003 Homunculi were much more rounded and developed.

2003 sets up the audience to think that the 7 Homunculi would be the 7 magical McGuffins, when in reality they turned out to just be real people that are no more or less important than anyone else in the world, and they were all treated as such from the moment it started to deviate from the manga.

Brotherhood also sets up the audience to think that the 7 Homunculi would also be the 7 magical McGuffins. Then it sorta treats them like McGuffins (even though they aren't), then it doesn't do anything interesting with any of them other than Greed (which was good character development but is a very common trope and nothing original).

When you combine that with the fact that 2003 was much darker in tone (and generally more emotionally driven) than both the Manga and Brotherhood, you get much more interesting villains. The 2003 Homunculi were born because of a character's actions (which corresponded to a specific vice), and were allowed to become full on characters. The Brotherhood Homunculi were each individually literally the embodiment of a single character's individual vice, which never allowed them to truly surpass that one characteristic. When you think of Hulky Sloth, you only think of how he's really strong but really lazy. When you think of Mom Sloth, you think of an actual character who appears to display a range of emotions.

Not that 2003 didn't have it's faults, or that Dante was a better villain than Father, but it definitely did every Homunculi outside of Greed and possibly Envy better

>>148513538
>Gon and Killua have an unhealthy friendship, with dependence on Killua's end and dismissiveness on Gon's end. The entire climax of the CA arc revolved around the flaws in their relationship, culminating in them splitting up. They have one of the least generic friendships in battle shounen because it's so overtly imperfect and they treat each other badly, despite loving each other.
Honestly. The best thing for them to do was part ways for a bit.

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>>148519509
>doesn't do anything interesting with any of them other than Greed
I thought the way they characterized Envy and Wrath, and even Pride to an extent, in brotherhood was far deeper than anything they did in '03. I actually empathized with them being victims of what they were, as opposed to the '03 Homunculi who were pretty much straight up forces of evil.

>>148502256
Konjiki no Gash.

>>148519509
>Brotherhood also sets up the audience to think that the 7 Homunculi would also be the 7 magical McGuffins
I never got that from it or the manga.

And Wrath, Envy and Pride were much, much better developed characters in Brotherhood/Manga than '03. The only character in 03 that was better developed than Brotherhood was Lust and Sloth, though Sloth had shitty baggage going on. Envy's only motivation in 03 is daddy issues.

The motivation of the homonculi in '03 is also very poorly done and very cliche. 'We want to be real humans', 'why?' 'no reason, that's just the cliche motivation for artificial beings'.

>>148519985
I'll actually correct myself and say that Greed was a much stronger developed character in the Manga/Brotherhood too. He actually does something in the plot other than show up and die, and has strong, clear motivations for all his actions.

>>148509945
1. jojo
2. Shaman king
3. HxH
4. Yuyu hakusho
5. rurouni kenshin

>>148502256
I think that narratively Full Metal alchemist is more complete and satisfying. The adventures follow a classical model and it pays off because there's nothing that doesn't make sense from beginning to end. In an age where manga are stretched full of filler and made to betray what the creator wants in order to keep it alive as a zombie, this has a lot of value. It also has many interesting ideas and the world building brings the world of amestria to life in a way that hunter x hunter fails to do in many ways.

However, Hunter x hunter is way more hype and while the story as a whole is a bit disjointed and has clearer ups and downs, there are some individual arcs or just battles which blow FMA out of the water for me.

As a sidenote. Nen is a million times better than alchemy, mostly because togashi actually takes the time to explain the underlying principles and most characters (for the most part) are shown developing according to this system logically. We have a clear understanding of a character's strength and how they match up against other characters in a satisfying way which togashi only occasionally betrays in order to make gon-sans.

Alchemy is never really explored nor do we ever get a sense of the effort necessary to use it. Edward is a proclaimed child genius and can effortlessly use it while al is a hunk of metal, most other alchemists never struggle either. As a whole alchemy could've been used in interesting ways, and it does get some moments where hiromu makes full use of it (mustang vs lust) but for the most part it gets relegated to magic elemental powers where each alchemist gets a theme and sticks with it the whole way through with some hand pounding and finger snapping.

Both are amazing, well loved, and are memorable, but the reasons why are very different when examined under the lens.

>>148502256
FMA easily, even Magi is better than HxH

>>148506868
>>all those MAL tier faggots
Nah. If they were from MAL they would say that FMA 2003 is better ( or good for that matter)

But yeah FMA is one of the better Shonen i have read in a while.
Also it had sense enough not to outstay it's welcome, unlike a lot of other fightin shonen i could think of.

>>148520080
>We have a clear understanding of a character's strength and how they match up against other characters in a satisfying wa
You say its satisfying, I say its power levels bullshit.

The fact the 'power levels' of FMA aren't stated means there's constant unpredictability in the fights, keeping up the tension, and we're impressed by the actual feats of strength displayed rather than what we're told about the characters.

Bradley is such a well respected villain because we aren't directly told his fighting skill, we're shown it, and after his first display of power his presence on the battlefield becomes genuinely intimidating that we actually doubt the heroes can beat him.

And in a world of ranked abilities Bradley would be low on the list. He's just a man with minor precognition and only for what he can directly see. But FMA never ranks based on the strength of abilities or whatever. FMA is constant show, rather than tell. Which is where Arakawa's skill and strength as a storyteller comes through. She's one of the few action mangaka that actually knows how to write.

>>148520298
THIS. So much fucking this. That's why i like FMA over 90% of the shonen i have read over the years.

Can we talk about manlet in the flask /a/? I feel that his existence is the biggest stain on FMA since he's so painfully generic and uninteresting yet stands center stage and is supposed to be a primum mobile for the events of the story.

Particularly I felt that there was a huge dissonance between his past and his present self. In the flashback he talks about just wanting to walk and explore the world, but in the present he has a god complex and an inferiority to humans while wanting to control god himself. This leap in character felt too great for me and I didn't really like the final battle because I could understand the villain.

Call me a faggot, but I would've liked to have seen more of him after he sucked up all those souls and founded amestria. When and why did he create the homunculus? What caused such a radical shift in goals?
There were a lot of things about him that I was curious to know, but the manga was running full speed ahead to the end by that time.

What do you feel for him? How would you have improved him? Did you think it was great as it was?

>>148502256
FMA, because it actually has a coherent story and actually ended, unlike certain other manga.

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>>148512989

as much as i would have loved to see more science fuckery with alchemy, i feel that there's a fine line between what you can do with that to actually make battles more engaging before it just ends up as two alchemists explaining their science/powers to each other like in any other battle shounen. FMA 03 had a few issues with this, but it wasn't too bad.

there's also the issue of misconstruing actual real-world science to make battles interesting. if you've gotta sacrifice the way real science works to make your anime magic work, then that kinda defeats the purpose of tying it into real-world science anyway. i think FMA did a decent job of revealing just enough while not getting exposition heavy. however i do think the gate/the truth needed a bit more explanation than what we got.

>>148502256
HxH 1998 > FMA >>>>>> FMA Brotherhood > HxH 2011.

>>148520298
HxH cucks BTFO! Bradley >>>>>>>>> Meruem

>>148520431
>When and why did he create the homunculus?
Not sure of the "when" but the "why" presumably was that the Homunculi are manifestations of his self that he wanted to be rid of in order to reach his goals. As in Lust, Wrath, sloth etc. I think he felt those were human constraints that would presumably hold him back from his mission of becoming a god.

>>148520499
Now this is someone from MAL
FMA 2003 was shitty fanfiction from BONES and nothing more

>>148520577
As opposed to generic Disney shit written by a woman?

>>148520605
Sorry that Arakawa isn't edgy enough for you emo types from Deviantart and MAL and she didn't have Lust recite emo poems after killin folk

I think it's a little unfair to compare FMA to traditional fighting shonen. It's structured a lot more like a Young Adult fantasy novel than something like JoJo or DBZ.

I really hope that when she is done with Silver Spoon she eventually does another action manga

>>148520539
I understand that he made them to escape from his human emotions, it's just that him being such a major part of the story it makes no sense to give him so little personality and explanation behind his motives.

For example, we know that he created the homunculus at different times throughout his life since they refer to themselves as being older or younger than one another, so we know that flask dude had separate events in his life that affected him so much he decided that he needed to improve himself by slicing his personality to nothingness. What happened to him that caused him to deem pride as a character fault? How did his lust get in the way of his plans? Why is wrath the final sin he expunged from himself? There are at least 300 years of empty space between him ruining hoehiem's life and appearing in the story with a cable outlet on the nape of his neck.

At least we see bits of hoehiem and his attempts to grapple with his distant sons. We get some sense of his personality beyond his goals of stopping flask dude. Flask dude on the other hand is a complete blank and the story ends with him.

I'm just nitpicking at this point, but it felt really unsatisfying the way it wrapped up on a character who gets less development than every other fucking villain besides the gold tooth doctor.

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FMA:
>comedic asides constantly ruining dramatic tension
>homunculi underdeveloped as characters
>main villain is typical "i wanna be god" power hungry sociopath
>some side characters completely dropped near the end and only referenced in the epilogue
>pointless inclusion of the not-Chinese characters
>Trisha, Nina, and Hughes hardly get any screentime compared to 2003 yet are all major motivational forces for the main characters
>defeats the big bag with typical power of friendship bullshit
>called "brotherhood" yet the relationship between Ed and Al feels cheaper and less developed than 2003

HxH:
>comedy is less frequent and smartly written when it does surface
>well developed antagonists with incredible arcs; Meruem alone shits on the entire FMA cast
>no defined main villain, every character has their own distinct motivations and moral compass that can't be separated into good and evil
>side characters are incredible (Shoot, Knuckle, Ikalgo, Welfin, etc)
>realistic endings that are never solved by mindless fighting
>main duo relationship is developed well across hundreds of chapters and culminates in the story's most compelling moments

>>148502256
Fullmetal Alchemist easily.

HunterxHunter is not bad, it's just not on the same tier as FMA, HxH is more generic and honestly the pacing is shit(and i'm not talking about the hiatus).

I guess it's fine if you're info FIGHTAN shonen but if you want an actual story then just go for FMA.

>>148520906
> a load of 'muh opinion' based on lazy reading

>>148520431

i think showing him actually displaying the vices as/before he removed them would have been interesting and added some more depth. or better yet, better display his vices AFTER he removed them because one of the central themes was that he was never fully able to actually remove them.

i think giving him actual reason to disdain humans other than the cliche "arrogance because muh dark nature of humanity" would have made him more interesting too. he has this constant stinkeye for them, yet it's never exactly explained why other than his view of them as a natural resource to be consumed. given that one of the core facets of his characterization is his rejection of his own humanity, it would have been cool to see how his attitude towards humans was in fact a HUMAN reaction to human actions and not an inhuman/impartial demigod one.

maybe if the reveal of him being a part of the entity from beyond the gate and a better explanation as to how the gate/the truth worked would have made his worldview more understandable for the audience.

i do think he's an intriguing character, but we get very little backstory as to his desire to be free other than the single flashback episode with hohenheim and then his encounter with truth at the very end of the series.

>>148521014
Not him, those aren't exaggerations but valid criticisms.

>>148520906
>brotherhood
>2003
>several things are outright lies and doesn't even understand what the main villain actually wanted

Ignored.

>>148520431
>>148521070
The manga explains everything about him properly and while at first it might seem that he "Just wanted to be god" that's far from the truth.

>>148521077
>those aren't exaggerations but valid criticisms.
No they aren't. Most of them are completely arbitrary opinions and others can only be credited as misunderstanding based on a skim read.

>>148521119
>that's far from the truth
nice.

>>148521070
I don't think Father is meant to be entirely understandable. He's an alien being with an alien pov and value system. He doesn't think or have goals the same as human beings do.

>>148521139
Are we really going to pretend shit comedy and a bad ending aren't always complained about in FMA threads? Other than the bullshit about Father's goal his criticisms are valid.

>>148521186
That's just a cop out for his lack of characterization... It's possible to explore alien value systems.

Why would you even compare them? They're totally different manga.

>>148520906
>>comedic asides constantly ruining dramatic tension
Actually the comedy is very well timed and gives much needed levity to characters making them relateble and likable. Of course young kids from Deviant Art and MAL aren't fans of that they like emo and Grimdark
>>homunculi underdeveloped as characters

The Homunculi are as "developed" as they need to be. They are in the story to serve a purpose and once it is served they fuck off.

>>main villain is typical "i wanna be god" power hungry sociopath
Actually the dwarf in the flask motivations were a lot more than just becoming a god. "fear", and "lonliness" factored heavily into his reasoning as well. Unlike the shitty 2003 "villain" who's sole motivation was "muh eternal youth" talk about a "Disney tier" villain

>>some side characters completely dropped near the end and only referenced in the epilogue
Which ones were these? Most of the characters end up helping out in the final battle in some way and the their plotlines resolved before the ending
>>pointless inclusion of the not-Chinese characters
>>Trisha, Nina, and Hughes hardly get any screentime compared to 2003 yet are all major motivational forces for the main characters
Because we saw that shit already in the shitty 2003 fanfic version and frankly i am glad they didn't dwell for like 12 episodes on "nina" this time around sitting and sulking about her. They actually got shit done and Nina was still very much acknowledged by them up to the end and basically made them more resolute in their mission

>>148521303
Yeah, FMA is good. HxH is not
>>148521314
>replying to bait

He's literally talking about the Anime can't you see he literally says "brotherhood"

Kill yourself

>>148521186

>I don't think Father is meant to be entirely understandable. He's an alien being with an alien pov and value system. He doesn't think or have goals the same as human beings do.

i don't necessarily disagree with this, but one of father's core characterizations is his reliance on humanity and his desire to transcend it. although he is at his core inhuman, one of his fatal flaws was his inability to recognize the parts of him that were human, which would mean that he would in fact be able to be characterized from a familiar human perspective and not just an alien one.

>>148521190
>Other than the bullshit about Father's goal his criticisms are valid.
The claim that the Xingese characters are 'pointless' and that the homoculi are underdeveloped is a crock of shit. The point about side characters is also nonsense, minor characters are constantly popping up again into the plot (including fucking Yuki, who initially seemed like a disposable starter villain) and even if Father was beaten in a fist fight, every character had something to do in the Finale to produce the victory, from Mustang's crew, to Scar's crew, and the Armstrong siblings and chimeras.

The Xingese characters and their form of alchemy is directly necessary for unraveling Father's plot and defeating the homoculi.

This guy is essentially complaining with the homoculi and Hughes that the manga characters aren't the 03 characters. It's essentially the /a/ version of Not Muh Batman.

>>148521368
Unless you have a preference for shallower characters and themes, less interesting writing in general, and terrible endings, HxH is better than FMA in every way.

>>148521314
>>defeats the big bag with typical power of friendship bullshit

Um..no he didn't Also who was the big bad in the 2003 fanfic again? Oh yeah Dante who was killed by of all people Gluttony! One thing about the Homunculi in the manga is they were actually afraid of father and loyal to him with the exception of Greed. Where as Dante could seem to barely keep control of them and in the end was killed by one of them.

>>called "brotherhood" yet the relationship between Ed and Al feels cheaper and less developed than 2003

Eplain what's "cheap" about it? It wasn't any less developed than the 2003 fanfic version. Their motivations are the same so yeah

>>pointless inclusion of the not-Chinese characters
Actually they did have a point to the story. The Alkihestry that multiple characters were interested in studying including Hoenhiem's back story.

Tell me what use did the 2003 fanfic side characters have?
>Fake Elric bros
>Not Shadow-Lady
>Please donut steal alchemist girl that was working for Yokai

>>148521314

>Which ones were these? Most of the characters end up helping out in the final battle in some way and the their plotlines resolved before the ending

heinkel, marcoh, and yoki. they're very minor characters, but the fact that the series went out of its way to include all the other minor characters in the final scenes makes their absence more noticeable. heinkel's absence is even more jarring due to the fact that his motivational speech is the only thing that gave Al the will to use a philosopher's stone.

>>148521460
>heinkel, marcoh, and yoki.
They are all present during the finale. Go read it again.

>>148521297
What characterization did Dante have in the 2003 fanfic version other than "muh immortality"?

>>148521186
>He doesn't think or have goals the same as human beings do.

Then why did they make him so interesting? Why does he think humans are nothing yet simultaneously split half the souls with Hoenheim as if it were completely natural? Why does he stop fighting just to chat with ed and co. when he learns who they are? Why does he call himself "father" and name the homunculus his "children" instead of just calling them tools? What's his endgoal and his reason for wanting to become god?

Maybe you're right and I'm just reading into this way too much, but it still seems like such a waste to let a character who is built into the story to shine as an opposing force with his own reasons and desires and then never let him speak/act/do anything other than look bored in a chair for 26 volumes before fighting and dying.

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tfw you love both fmab and hxh and dont get why people are trying to compare them

>>148521427
>Unless you have a preference for shallower characters and themes
FMA first chapters are much deeper than anything HxH does.

>less interesting writing in general
OH MY RUBBER NEN

>and terrible endings
The ending is fucking great though. And HxH will never end, or hey maybe Togashi gets bored of it like he did with YYH and he'll just rush an ending.

>HxH is better than FMA in every way.
Maybe at asspulls, I can agree with that, Arakawa isn't very good with asspulls

>>148509945
I assume you mean battle shounen

1. HxH
2. Jojo
3. One Piece
4. Gash Bell
5. Magi

>>148511991
Fantastic setting and concept with average to good execution.

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>>148521550
>fmab

>>148521609
>HxH
>JoJo
>One Piece

Trash taste.

>>148521577
>FMA first chapters are much deeper than anything HxH does.
Nothing in FMA is a tenth as deep as Chimera Ant's exploration of human nature.

>OH MY RUBBER NEN
A great moment based in a component of Nen we've known about since Yorkshin?

>The ending is fucking great though.
It's generic and cheesy. Naruto-tier "everyone lives happily after after and hooks up"

>Maybe at asspulls, I can agree with that, Arakawa isn't very good with asspulls
She is also incapable of writing a tonally and thematically consistent story without cringey comedy shoved in.

Lets look at the 2003 bastardization that MAL and Deviant art friends love so much.
>Pretty good up until Greed dies
>after that full retard
>Fake Elric brothers appear because we need to pad out the story dammit? After they are gone no one speaks of them again

>Yokai has that one twat working for him that is an alchemist and later gets body snatched by Dante so she can be important later

>Dante is a borederline Disney villain who's sole motivation is she wants to be immortal. That's it really so she body snatches and kills people to make stones so she can continue to body snatch and kill

>Wants Hoenhime's cock too

>She has Homunculi most of which she did not even create yet decide to work for her because....reasons? I dunno but we have...

>Greed who is the most like his manga counterpart and gets killed by Edward. Yeah Ed killed someone in 2003 version
>Also no Greedling here
>"wrath" who's claim to fame is whining like a bitch and calling for his mommy. He throws temper tantrums. Because that's what we think of when we think of Wrath obviously
>Sloth: A curvy sexy lady who works as a secretary and does most of the scheming , basically goes around and gets shit done and she has water powers because that it what we think of when we think of Sloth right?
>Envy: He basically has daddy issues! How nice!Oh and he is Ed and Al's long lost dead big brother. More on that later

>Pride: Well he seemed pretty prideful i guess. Not very bright though. Hiding the one thing that is his weakness conveniently in his home so his son can randomly show up with it in the middle of his fight with Mustang and cause him to lose.

>>148521749
>Nothing in FMA is a tenth as deep as Chimera Ant's exploration of human nature.
Ed and Al paying for trying to be gods is deeper than anything in CA.

Like I said, "FMA first chapters are much deeper than anything HxH does"

>A great moment based in a component of Nen we've known about since Yorkshin?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>It's generic and cheesy. Naruto-tier "everyone lives happily after after and hooks up"
"everyone is happy and hooks up" you're talking out your fucking ass, the only people that "hook up" are Wendy/Ed Mei/Al.

Al traveling the world is a great end.

>She is also incapable of writing a tonally and thematically consistent story without cringey comedy shoved in.

You literally never read the manga.

>>148521877
MAL likes Brotherhood much more than 2003 though.

Even then WHO THE FUCK CARES? This is a manga thread, none of the anime adaptations are as good as the manga.

Fuck off back to the eternal meme threads about 2003 vs Brotherhood

>>148521740
Its interesting to me that you would shit on the three popular series and not the two less popular ones.

The Clear Note arc of Gash Bell was genuinely bad and a mediocre end to the series. Magi took forever to get interesting and has a relatively bland setting.

>>148521577
You know how after you finish a series it lingers with you for a while before you stop thinking about it? I think that a large part of my love for HxH comes from how long after reading I still think about some of the moments in the manga.

FMA is great, but it just doesn't have a lot of staying power because it's very childish in how far it's willing to go at any given moment. There aren't any amazing moments where you stare at the page for minutes.

HxH is better executed, if even for at least a single arc. FMAB is just above average all the way through from beginning to end.

>>148521877
>>148521880
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Kill yourself

>>148521880
Winry* fuck this phone

>>148521996

>FMAB

Opinion discarded

>>148521996
I think the word you're looking for is ambition. Yes, Togashi goes much further with the characters and themes he explores. This is why HxH reaches 10/10 with Chimera Ant while FMA will always be just an above-average series.

>>148521877
>The Homunculi are basically born from human transmutation which basically flies dead in the face of that whole FMA theme of Alchemy not being able to bring back the dead and all.

>Izumi's whole all is one lesson means fuck all here, because her son just came back in the form of Wrath and Ed and Al's Mother as Sloth and Hoenhime's bastard son as Envy

>Rose gets raped, because rape makes you DEEP! She then becomes the figure head of a lior resistance led by Scar. Why? SHE WAS RAPED!

>Lust kills a guy and immediately recites an emo poem afterward. Something you would see as a caption on Shadow the Hedgehog fanart.
>She's also Scar's older brother's Girlfriend. Because all is one and all that. Again why are these Homunculi following Dante again?

>This shit all leads up to the pay off, of Ed and Al ending up in Germany, and Proto Nazis. Because the Amestian military wasn't on the nose enough.

There is more but that is most of the fanfic tier shit i could be arsed to remember

>>148521983
>The Clear Note arc of Gash Bell was genuinely bad and a mediocre end to the series.
Still better than any "writing" in JoJo even if it ended in a fairly average end, Part 1-3 have literally no characterization and not to mention hundreds of asspulls.

Part 4 tries to give the characters more personality, but the poor writing is still there.

Now you're going to say
>reading JoJo for good writing
No, JoJo is a meme manga and it's read for fun, but that's the reason why it will never be as good as good written ones.

>Magi took forever to get interesting
No? Maybe if you like epic fightan but otherwise Magi is interesting since the beginning, exploring the dungeons was great, Aladdin meeting the old hag, the political shit and fights in Balbadd were great too. Zagann was a bizarre dungeon and Hakuryuu's character took an unexpected turn.

NotJews were amazing, Alma Torran had so much fucking info and lore. Hakuryuu and Judar vs Arba and then Alibaba and Aladdin were amazing fights not only because of powers but because of the characters and character development in there. Hakuryuu and Kouen getting BTFO by the alliance was great and unexpected too. The political arc after the TS had a lot of stuff going on and the fight vs Arba was hype as fuck.

Meanwhile One Piece has the same fucking arc over and over again and HxH just gets generic shonen tropes and twists them a little bit, it's still generic as fuck and filled with asspulls.

>>148522077
HXH is also a longer running series with multiple arcs while FMA is basically telling one story and has a definitive ending

>>148509945
1. Rurouni Kenshin
2. JoJo
3. Fullmetal Alchemist
4. Yu Yu Hakusho
5. Bleach

>>148521996
That's some hot opinions you have there.

Nothing in HxH impressed me as much as the fight between the Xing characters and the homoculi, that culminated in Lan Fan cutting off her own arm to use as a distraction against Wrath, or the fight between Lust and Mustang.

>>148522162
The part that did not make sense to me is how Envy is even Ed and Al's brother if Hoenhiem was swapping bodies how was the DNA the same if it was just their soul. I swear they said he was pretty old meaning that he would of had to swap bodies at least once.

>>148521983
The guy you're replying to/just replied to you is a known ESL shitposting Magifag who has never read HxH, just ignore him.

>>148522310
>magi
>good
choose one

>>148522310
You've never read any of those series have you?

>>148522439

>>148522435

>>148521577
>OH MY RUBBER NEN


So what issues do you have with it in general? I'd like to hear them at length

>>148506868
Go back to your hole fanboy, FMA is by far the best as it has a consistent plot that didn't drag too much and it actually ended for good with a good feeling at the end. Very few mangas do that because they are so fucking long and tedious that they get axed from their editors.
I wouldn't say FMA is the best mangas out there, there are definitely better. E.g. Berserk, Homunculi, Monster, Vagabond, 21st century boys, etc. Fucking HxH is alright but faggots like you make their fanbase community pure shit. That is why HxH will never be on the top sorry fanboy

>>148522707
>Berserk

opinion discarded, Berserk hasn't been good since Miura stopped copying Violence Jack.

>>148522737
So whats good for ya? fucking Naruto or OP?

They're both some of my favorite manga and I see no reason to pit them against each other.

>>148509945
1. Slam Dunk
2. Saint Seiya
3. Fullmetal Alchemist
4. Konjiki no Gash
5. Hokuto no Ken

>>148509945
1. Hajime no Ippo
2. JoJo
3. HxH
4. Gash
5. FMA

>>148506868

If you think hxh is amazingly written, it's either your very first experience with scripted television or your such an autistic degenerate drooling over the cute little boys that you can't have a rational thought for 72 hours after watching an episode.

All your criticisms of fma are also present in hxh, do you even know what plot armor is you fucking monkey

>>148513538
It's kind of funny how even though their friendship is flawed, they act more like real friends than 90% of other characters in shounen manga. Most of the time characters are just friends because we're told that they are, whereas Gon and Killua actually behave like two 12 year old kids who are best friends. They joke around, they argue, they have fun, etc.

i don't read manga much anymore, so going by anime

FMA 03 > HxH 2011 > Brotherhood

never seen 98 HxH so i have no clue where it falls in

>>148506066
Edge-Lord sighted. How dark and deep are you bro?

>>148520298
>You say its satisfying, I say its power levels bullshit. The fact the 'power levels' of FMA aren't stated means there's constant unpredictability in the fights, keeping up the tension, and we're impressed by the actual feats of strength displayed rather than what we're told about the characters.
This is an issue in a lot of series that use power levels, but the particular story of HxH and the mechanics of Nen make it so the effect on tension is minimal. In fact, the number of fights that get resolved in unconventional ways in HxH probably exceeds the number of fights that do not, and in fact only the Greed Island arc climaxes with a conflict solved in the way in which you'd expect of a Fighting Shonen to be solved. Power levels had fuck all to do with the outcomes of Yorkshin, the Zoldycks or the Chairman Election, at least for the protagonists. And while power levels decided the outcomes of the Heaven's Arena and the Chimera Ant arc, and played heavily into the outcome of the Hunter Exam, they were not exactly "train until you beat your opponent" outcomes.

HxH arcs are usually structured so the main characters have to fight against opponents of vastly superior strength, and so antagonists and heroes have goals beyond killing eachother, which as early as the Hunter Exam arc allowed the main cast to be soundly defeated in fights that many other Shonen would use to showcase just how strong they've gotten, while also enabling them to get closer to their objectives despite just managing to barely survive.

>>148520298
>The fact the 'power levels' of FMA aren't stated means there's constant unpredictability in the fights, keeping up the tension, and we're impressed by the actual feats of strength displayed rather than what we're told about the characters.

But that's...that's exactly what HxH fights are like too.

>>148513308
Just read the manga. You'll finish it in one third of what it'd take you to watch the anime.

>>148523627
Exactly what I was thinking but I didn't respond because they have clearly never read HxH.

I think FMA is objectively the tighter written story and is much more "cinematic" for lack of a better term. Which means what FMA has over HxH is exciting conflicts and satisfying action-packed conclusions to said conflicts. HxH mostly does anti-climaxes which I like because of the execution but am willing to give FMA the edge in that department. At the end of the day I love both series and recognize them as really flawed shonen manga but equally some of the best written out there. Though I agree that FMA is better than HxH, mainly because the drama is more "human" and poignant, fights happened much more often and are quite good, and the characters are all well-designed and likable.

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>>148521880
>Ed and Al paying for trying to be gods is deeper than anything in CA.
Why? It is just the standard tale of hubris that Greeks already perfected two millenia ago. And it is really fucking trite and obnoxious once you realize that hubris is only hubris when you fail.

>>148502256
I like HxH more, but FMA is more consistent and well made. HxH feels like a different series every arc, which really kills it overall if you see it as a whole. Shit like the Election arc is damn alienating.

Also, HxH's asspulls are worse than "I can trade my alchemy this whole time"

>>148524416
Except their ignorance and failings ended up allowing them to save the world.

>>148524715
>HxH's asspulls are worse than "I can trade my alchemy this whole time"
Name them.

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>>148511798
On that I can agree.I'm much more interested in a story with Ed and Al becoming panzer aces in operation Barbarossa, than the generic happy ending we got in Bro*ho.

>>148525168
It was dumb as hell and took away the perspective of fantasy !notearth.

>>148502256
Neither, they're both garbage.

>>148524832
But you were talking especifically about their failure in the first chapters, not their entire arc. As in two kids who were told "don't do x! Why? Because I say you can't" getting fucked up in a way they couldn't have possibly expected was somehow better than all of its alliterations that probably started with primitive version of Pandora/Adam and Eve, and nowadays make up 95% of SciFi movies and 50% of horror movies. Admittedly, it was better constructed and presented than most of these stories, but it isn't really that deep.

If you are talking about their entire arc, then yes, it is probably better than the arc of any specific character in HxH. I'll give you that. In a large part because their story was actually planned out and their ENTIRE world exists to flesh out their arc.

Also, I would note that it isn't just their ignorance and failings that allowed them to save the world. Due to their parentage, the Eldrick brothers are more or less "chosen heroes" within their world and nobody else would have been able to take their role, regardless of suffering, ignorance and failings.

>>148525322
I don't get what your point is

Lmao not pic related

Even shit like dragon ball, one piece, or snk is better

>>148525305
> they're both garbage
That doesn't contradict one of them being the best battle shounen, though.

>>148525211
I know it was dumb, but it took a risk with the story and characters, while Bro-hood/manga played it safe and consequently feels less memorable.

>>148522401
They've been doing for hundreds of years and yeah the Envy being their brother shit was dumb as fuck

>>148523441
Brotherhood>HXH2011>>>>>>Dried dog shit on the side walk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FMA '03

>>148525322
>Due to their parentage, the Eldrick brothers are more or less "chosen heroes" within their world and nobody else would have been able to take their role, regardless of suffering, ignorance and failings.

Yeah, that's wrong. Like, dead wrong.

The only thing their parentage had to do with anything was the fact that Ed and Al got an early introduction to Alchemy.

In terms of "chosen heroes" and plot consequence?

There's explicitly more than 5 people who have gone through the gate and gained knowledge of array-less transmutations, so while the Elrics were important for Father's plan, they could have been replaced, albeit with some time and effort (I mean, we saw them literally create a human sacrifice, they can make more without issue).

Scar and Hoenhiem are responsible for the counter-arrays more than any one else.

And Greed was easily the one who dealt the final blow to Father - literally anyone could have kicked Father's shit in after Greed fucked him up. And that relied much more on Greed's relationship with Ling than anything else.

Ed was definitely the "chosen hero" when it comes to saving Al, but that's pretty small time compared to everything else.

>>148520298
>>148520577
FMA Brotherhood listed as the BEST ANIME EVER on MAL is what initially clued me into not taking MAL's rankings seriously, along with the three instances of Gintama in the Top 10. MAL hates FMA 2003, ranked at 206, for the same reason as you do (because it's not the "real" version of an entirely fictional story) and ranks it below shows that are unpleasant to watch due to inferior music, art, and composition.

>>148527582
Actually, Kimi no Na wa is #1 on MAL.

And let's be honest, Kimi no is pretty fucking cool. Maybe not #1, but still pretty good.

>>148527649
FMA Brotherhood is #2 now, and for the longest time, back when I entertained the possibility of using said list for recs, it was #1.

>>148527582
>(because it's not the "real" version of an entirely fictional story)

So you basically ignored all the point of the story that made it shit. Typical fan of 2003 FMA. Let me guess you saw it when you were in high school and nostalgia makes you overlook the stupidity BONES lame writing.

>>148527582
see
>>148521877
>>148522162
2003 FMA was fucking awful. That people try to pass it off as this well written story are the same people who like Naruto and think Sasuke's a good well written character

>>148527794
If you're the anon I responded to then I've already heard your reasoning for disliking the 2003 anime (muh fanfiction). As if that has any bearing on quality. Why do Brotherhoodfags go back to that so often if the later show can stand on its own?

If you're not him, I'm sure that I've heard your reasoning as well, but I'd be interested in hearing why you think 2003 was shit. Most criticism falls into the "fanfiction" or "lol nazi" camp.

>>148527853
>the people who like Naruto

Lets not even try to pretend that Brotherhood isn't the more typical battle shonen between the two FMAs.

>>148527965
It isn't actually. For reasons already gone through in the thread multiple times. Sorry but FMA 2003 took what made the manga good and made it more emo and edgy. Which really made it ten times more silly. Not to mention the tone was all over the place. The manga and by extension Brother hood had a consistant tone from beginning to end. It also never stopped being fun to watch with many great moments happening throughout. where as 2003 stopped being good the second Greed died and just became fucking stupid by the end.

Not sure how people can defend it

Source material: HxH>FMA

Anime: HxH 99>>FMA+Movie>FMA:B>HxH 2011>>HxH dogshit movies

>>148502256
Shaman King

ITT: people actually think that FMA 2003 is good, even the shittier movie with the Nazis in it.

Good lord.

>>148528055
That has nothing to do with your previous statement. You basically said, "It's dark, so it's bad."

>>148507159
>DBZ in particular just went to complete shit writing-wise post-Freiza because Toriyama stopped writing a real story. The Raditz, Sayian, and Namek saga were all clearly planned out, and flowed in to each other really well. After that, it was just like, "What do we do next guys?"
No it's because the plot stopped revolving around it's FUCKING NAMESAKE..hint hint...DRAGON FUCKING BALL

>>148527582
FMA was up at like 68-70 or so for quite some time, it only dropped hard once FMA:B came out - if you look though, it's not because older scores are changing, but because the newer scores just aren't as high (7/8's instead of 9's).

Also, of all the recent animes that could have been shot up to #1, Brotherhood is fine.

>Are there others that do things better?
Yeah, different anime definitely tackle different aspects better. FMA handles emotional moments with far more tack than Brotherhood.

>Are there anime that have better characters, more intriguing plot, more polish, better animation, better scripts, etc.?
Of course there are. Baccano! and Serial Experiments Lain I'd argue are straight up better in pretty much every way.

>Are there others that do ALL of that, have a sub-100 episode run time, and still come with such a large mass appeal?
There are, but they're far and few in between. The mass appeal thing really limits us here - as much as I love Baccano!, it can be disorienting for normies. SEL is definitely too weird for even your average anime fan as well. Even things like Code Geass and Death Note don't appeal to practically every viewer (not that they're even remotely close to the best). You're limited to stuff like Cowboy Bebop or FMA:B here.

>Are there others that do all of the above and have been released in the past 10 years (since MAL is HEAVILY skewed towards new releases)?

...Nope.

>>148508121
>the earliest part of DBZ was arguably more influential
That's not a good thing(and if anything it's the crappy post-Freeza era that was probably the most influential)
It's because of that that almost every damn battle shonen is power level bullshit and muh "anger power-up" bullshit

>>148508305
>>148508452
Hahaha 11baby BTFO
99 will always be the best

>>148509945
Dragon Ball Z, Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, Attack on Titan FTW xDDD

>>148528055
>Not to mention the tone was all over the place.

That's one of the biggest issues I had with 2003. It should have stuck with the "life is bleak with occasional rays of sunshine" tone, rather than flip-flopping between that and trying to be a straight up comedy.

I felt it was the strongest when the main characters were getting hit the hardest. It definitely seemed to handle the Shou Tucker scene, the meat freezer scene, and Hughes' death a little more tack than Brotherhood did.

Not memeing but I never understood why FMA is rated so highly. I mean, I don't hate it, it's solid, the characters are allright and it doesn't have any jarring flaws but at the same time there's nothing really outstanding or mindblowingly good about it either.

>>148513384
>Father is a great antagonist
Poor man's Hao without any of the depth

>>148528439
>rather than flip-flopping between that and trying to be a straight up comedy

Are we talking about Brotherhood or 2003 here?

>>148528491
>I don't hate it, it's solid, the characters are allright and it doesn't have any jarring flaws but at the same time there's nothing really outstanding or mindblowingly good about it either.
That's like 90% of the things people flip out over, including both FMA and HxH.

>>148528491
You talking about FMA or FMA:B?

2003 is rated as decent, not highly. It was, but then Brotherhood came out.

Brotherhood is rated so highly because of pretty much what you said. It's solid, the characters are all pretty decent, and there's no jarring flaws. Combine that with solid animation, a decent run time, a tried and true premise that lays the back bone for the story, and the fact that it was recently released, and you get a good anime that appeals to pretty much everyone, and even if it's not their favourite there's really very few complaints.

>>148528541

2003. It's honestly like it was trying to be two shows at once. Episodes like The Man with the Mechanical Arm, The Phantom Thief, Fullmetal VS Flame, fucking episode 37, and their ilk are so wildly different in tone compared to Body of the Sanctioned, The Philosopher's Stone, Created Human, and so on. It flip-flopped from trying to be an adventure with comedy to being a dark and brooding statement on human nature.

Brotherhood was pretty consistent the whole way through. Fun and adventure in every episode, with a bit of heartbreak here and there to remind everyone that there's real stakes on the line.

>>148528581
>recently released
Brotherhood is older now than 2003 was when Brotherhood aired.

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>>148502256
Okay, so does no one else think that tons of shit stand miles above HxH? Tokyo Ghoul has a lot of similarly endearing (but more elaborate) characters (largely because it was Ishida's favorite manga growing up), but is coupled with an actual fucking plot and deep-rooted mysteries instead of crank-out generic arcshit. And insofar as endeering charecters go, many of HxH's are pretty forgettable versus something like Durarara, where the number of named charecters you can't fathom being SOMEBODY's favorite can be counted on one hand. Nor is it as artistically intricate as JoJo, nor are the world-building or nen system exemplery enough to really be significant factors. And the writing drags on and fucking on, because everything tout of the characters' mouths seems unvarnished while still somehow managing to be verbous as fuck.
Don't get me wrong, I love HxH, but I know that, for exampe, I'd be embarrassed to admit it to someone I respected who read it and didn't see the point, because I really wouldn't be able to defend it. The best thing I can think of is that it falls squarely enough in the aforementioned paradigm for it to carve out its own neich, but that reads supiciously like sophistic bullshit as I type it out.

>>148528777
That statements generally aimed towards Brotherhood due to the over the top chibi humor peppered between serious scenes. 2003's comedy is more subtle. I'm not sure if I can recall any of it from Greed's death onward.

>>148528899
>Brotherhood is older now than 2003 was when Brotherhood aired.

It's still recent - anything within ~8-10 or so years is still relatively current, at least when we're considering MAL lists. Even Gurren Lagann is only ~9 years old.

And Brotherhood's been at the top of MAL for a while, either 1st or 2nd. http://imgur.com/a/lytXj

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>>148528972
Honestly, I'd watch Shaman King before I watch anymore of HxH. Not that HxH is terribly bad, it's just ridiculously generic.