Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1695

>>148151988
はやい

>>148151703
Drilling new students of Japanese via SRS to associate 今日は with こんにちは to make them lose their shit when they start reading.

No motivation.
Time of twilight.
Night come.

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>>148151988
why are 99% of japanese people deformed as fuck but 1% insanely cute.

They go from 1-3/10 to 10/10 immediately.

Unlike white people that have a gruadate scale from 1/10 to 10/10 in japan you're either an abomination or cute.

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>>148152265
>Unlike white people that have a gruadate scale from 1/10 to 10/10

>>148152225
I'm a simple man with simple tastes.
I'm sure she reeks of sweat and has a rainforest in her panties, and that's what counts.

Is the Monogatari series really the final boss of Japanese? I'm not nearly good enough at the language to find out for myself, but having watched Bakemonogatari, I have a hard time believing that the source material for that is the most challenging read there is.

>>148152552
No one has ever said that monogatari is the end boss of Japanese, people read that series here all the time

>>148152533
ありがとう

>>148152594
According to the reading list, it's harder than notoriously difficult VNs like Muramasa and classic novels by authors like Natsume Soseki and Osamu Dazai. Of course, I realize that not every entry in the reading list was written by the same person, I'm just curious about it.

>>148152552
Every fucking text using words/grammar you're unfamiliar with is "the final boss", and every text using words/grammar you're familiar with is easy as shit.
Read if you want to make the first become the second you wanker.

>>148152789
That's not what I'm asking about, though. Even a beginner who has trouble with both books can easily tell that reading The Canterbury Tales in the original text is harder than reading The Great Gatsby.

so how long do I really need to study for jlpt n2?
i thought I could have the 1000 kanji and 6000 vocabs down in a year if i study for 2 hours everyday (which i did for the last 3 months) (so 20 vocabs per day). but now it looks like there's more to it than just that?
is it totally unrealistic to be able to do the n2 within just a year?

any1 playing persona 5? Just got my copy in the mail

>>148152904
You didn't mention reading at all so I think it's unrealistic for you to achieve N2 ever.

>>148152095
>lose their shit when they start reading
For a whole five minutes.
Earth shattering.

>>148152904
you'll be okay if your listening and reading skills are up to par with the 1000 kanji and 6000 words

>>148153014
no I mean generally speaking. maybe I've had completely unrealistic ideas? is any person able to get to n2 level within a year with 2-3 hours of study per day?

>>148153102
because this doesn't sound too unachievable.


however, I just read some forums and everyone is saying they spent several years in order to reach jlpt n2 level proficiency.
I'm still only 3 months in so I wonder if my plan might be super unrealistic because I'm overlooking something here?

>>148153208
2 hours a day for a year is only 730 hours. You can't get to N2 in that time. If you study much harder and spend more time reading/listening than in Anki it can be done.

>>148152977
It's even worse than persona 4. It bored me so much that I actually decided to drop it.

>>148153431

but persona 4 is great

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Is this real life?

>>148119545
A 350 replies thread on /a/ with people discussing fucking dubs and even being sad x or y anime isn't dubbed in their language?
>>148119935
All these fucking replies. Thinking I'm browsing the same board as these people is sort of disconcerting. Literally /r/anime-tier.

>>148153730

there's people who unironically complain about subs being too hard to read

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>>148153730
Truly disgusting.

>>148153730
As opposed to this thread
>>148116915
which was 557 replies on a thread on /a/ where the majority of them were retards arguing over 3DPD blogshit and over off topic garbage.
>Thinking I'm browsing the same board as these people is sort of disconcerting. Literally /r/anime-tier.
You are posting this in the most cancerous off topic general thread on /a/.
Get some self awareness.

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>>148153861

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こんばんわ、わたしわNEWFAGです。どうぞよろしくおねがいたします。

>>148153924
Not helping yourself out here.

>>148153861
no one is forcing you to stay anon

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>>148153958
>わ

>>148153958

h e l l o w e l c o m e n e w c o m e r

heIIo I am nevvfag, please take goob care of me!

Everyone knows that language exists hand-in-hand with culture, and that all media is consumed through the lens of this culture.

But culture depends on upbringing.

How does anyone here feel that they can every fully understand the manga they read, or the anime they watch, when then they don't have that upbringing?

Words aren't just their denotation; they have connotation and implication, too. Sure, you can look things up on wikipedia or watch videos on youtube, but knowledge isn't experience, and experiencing something as an adult isn't the same as experiencing it as a child. This is Mary's Room, but the door was locked shut--with you inside--roughly around the time you finished high school.

When you see パピコ, you don't remember splitting one with your friend on the way home from school and eating it to the sound of a thousand cicadas.

When you hear the theme song to 笑点, your thoughts don't go back to watching it with your grandmother, drinking her favorite 玄米茶 with her, and eating かりんとう.

When someone mentions 小林幸子, it doesn't remind you of staying up on new years eve, eating tangerines, and listening to your dad and sister argue about whether white or red will win this year.

And that's just the obvious stuff.

Every single word in has its unique connotations--a hundred thousand tiny cultural references you'll never quite fully appreciate. The entire language is set against a vibrant tapestry that you'll only ever see in black and white.

You'll never be able to enjoy Japanese media in the way the author intended: as a native-speaker. Even if you studied for decades and were effectively fluent, how do you know that a translation of something by a true native bilingual (however rare they may be) wouldn't convey the author's intent better than you reading in your second language?

So my question is this:
Why are you learning Japanese?

>>148154238
あれー？わたし、しっぱい？
>>148154429
さんきゅ！

>>148154489

It's better being native english so idc

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>>148154489
Hey! I recognize this post!

>言わんくたって
please help

言わなく+たって？ what is たって here?

>>148154869
Can you post the entire sentence?

言わなくなったって

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>>148154637

>>148154924
>そこまで言わんくたっていいじゃん
after getting forcibly asked to do something they do not want to do

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Are these good stats for kana? Also, how much time did you need to finish japanese the manga way? I can only spend 1h from monday to friday.

>>148155017
Learning kana makes up less than 1% of the effort you put into learning the language, a lot less, your kana stats mean absolutely nothing

>>148155017

>I can only spend 1h from monday to friday.

make more time

>>148154489
I want to escape my painful past and become a new person by acquiring a new language. It's like playing a new rpg game where I can meet all sort of characters and visit places I haven't been before. Though I may have to grind weaker enemies to progress the story, the promise of accomplishments keep me moving forward.

>>148155017
the only good kana stats are no kana stats, stop using anki unless you're learning kanji/vocab

>>148155283
>stop using anki
finally someone has seen the light

never use anki
use wanikani
and make sure you buy the lifetime subscription its a great deal, btw if you want to be a nice guy heres my reflink https://www.wanikani.com/ref/ankisucks

>>148155350
XDDD
anki is useless for kana

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>>148155350

>>148155404

well use it if you want but I'd recommend just reading a book something to memorize kana even if you don't know what any of it means

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>>148155096
I don't know what you mean, am i wasting my time maybe?
>>148155247
Impossibro. Spendind one hour learning japanese is currently blocking me from learning other things
>>148155283
That's not what the guide says, at least the one that comes inside the zip.

I watched a livestream of new hibike episode just then and had a blast.

Thank you DJT for motivating me enough to learn Japanese so I can enjoy anime in this way.

>>148155497
>am i wasting my time maybe?
Yes, you're wasting time that you could be using to learn Japanese coming here to ask retarded questions

>>148155497
what zip? the guide says to use realkana or whatever the current equivalent is, i.e just bruteforce it
learning kana from anki is a complete waste of time

>>148155497

>Spendind one hour learning japanese is currently blocking me from learning other things

that's bs. You could be spending your time right now learning rather than shitposting

>>148155017
>kana deck
why

>>148155504
FUCK YOU FOR BEING AHEAD OF ME
I CAN'T UNDERSTAND MORE THAT THE GIST AND IT'S NOT ENOUGH AAAAAAAAH

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>>148155497
There's nothing more important than learning japanese.

>>148152552
Genji monogatari sure is.

>>148152977
I'm in the 3rd dungeon right now. It's really great. I got so bored by Persona 4 but this game is better on every level.

I still need to raise my 魅力 but there's so many social links at night. I already read all books and watched the DVDs that raise it.

>>148155837

how is the difficulty? I'm pretty sure I played p4 on easy mode because I found p3 to be pretty hard at the time

Does changing your windows language entirely to japanese. All your software to japanese. All your games to Japanese actually help.

Also watching your western movies/series with japanese subtitles?

>>148156099
yes if you take the time to try and read everything and not rely on muscle memory to use your computer and play games.

>>148156099
>Does changing your windows language entirely to japanese. All your software to japanese. All your games to Japanese actually help.

If you want to immerse yourself yes. However sometimes programs don't work properly so I stopped bothering with it.

>Also watching your western movies/series with japanese subtitles?

find dubs if you can. I wish I knew a good resource for jp dubbed movies but I can't help you there

>>148156006
I'm playing on normal and it hasn't been that difficult for me, but still challenging.

If you game over during a boss battle you can choose to refight it. Happened to me once because the main character died in battle.

I really hate grinding in RPGs so that's perfect for me. The last party member I got was 2 levels above me so I might be underlevelled.

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>>148155564
Ok mister dick.
>>148155576
This is from the READ_ME_FIRST.txt:
>-2: with this new knowledge, open up Anki and click on the kana deck and select "Study now". This is a flash card program; the front of the card which you are shown will be a prompt which will generally provide something to recall. With this kana deck you are going to be getting an ear for the sounds which make up Japanese. This will go from audio on the front and you will write out what you hear. Be honest with your answers and let the system do what the system does best.
>>148155609
It only takes me 5 minutes, and i'm doing this while learning C
>>148155746
Because that's what the guide says. I don't know.
>>148155792
Yes, making money.

When people say なんつって at the end of their sentences, I get the meaning thanks to anime... like, "teehee" or something, but what is it exactly? It bothers me that I'm not clearly understanding where なんつ comes from.

>>148154985
言わんく　→　言わなく
言わなくて　→　言わなくたって

It's similar to 言わなくても. I feel like there was a section in Tae Kim about たって but I can't find it right now.

>>148156368
Thanks, I get it now.

>>148156334
http://djt.neocities.org/guide.html

>>148156368
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/137399/meaning/m0u/
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/137398/meaning/m0u/

How big is your vocabulary?
http://www.kecl.ntt.co.jp/icl/lirg/resources/goitokusei/goi-test.html

>>148156334
Why are you spending your time learning c when you seem to know it already? You spelt click and select and card just fine. Is it just the capital C that is giving you trouble?

>>148156700
32000語 on test 1.

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>>148156334
>Because that's what the guide says.
It doesn't.

>>148156334
>This is from the READ_ME_FIRST.txt
The "READ_ME_FIRST.txt" of what? That guy is asking you what zip you're talking about and this isn't giving an answer. What is this zip guide that you're talking about and where did you get it?

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>>148156813

>>148152265
Asians seem to tend to have makeup as a hobby, so they get very good at it

Western people just all use it to varying degrees

>>148156700
>あなたの語彙数は12000語です．
Way to depress me after I thought I was getting better.

>>148156700
I know all of them because I mined them the last time i took the test

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>>148156968
yeah attractiveness is all about makeup

>>148156700
Averaged 14000 words.

>>148156968
>Western people just all use it to varying degrees

What magical country do you live in?

>>148157073
>mining useless words

>>148157116
Everything but lipgloss is totally overrated.

>>148157116
For most of the people who you see on the street that are a "10" it is a big factor

Not having acne in the first place is of course also a big help

>Specifically free time up to catch up on readin shit
>Happen to be completely out of effort and unable to do anything

>>148157274
>For most of the people who you see on the street that are a "10" it is a big factor
Joke's on you I never go outside

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>>148156538
Thank you, i'll check it out. But then i don't know wtf have i been following until now.
>>148156813
:^)
>>148156843
>>148156920
From 'Japanese Learner Anki Package' which is the shit i have now.

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>>148157116
I don't really see a difference?

I looked at it for 3 minutes trying to find what the differences are and I only see that left the lips are shiny and the eyelashes are more noticeable.

>>148157208
Makeup doesn't necessarily mean covering your face with eyeshadow. It includes things like covering up blemishes with foundation. Stuff you definitely find attractive but just don't perceive as makeup when it is done well.

>>148157399
She makes her skin more ashen so that she can make her cheeks stand out more when she makes them red.

But that was sort of my point, she is already attractive, if you're a 1, makeup won't magically turn you into a 10. You need genes for that.
And when it comes to Michishige I'd say she only looks like a slut when she puts on makeup like that.

>>148157322
There's just these days when you can't comprehend even the simplest things.

Once that streak comes to and end I usually can do much better than ever before.
I think that's just one phase of the brain acquiring new information.

>>148156368
These what you were looking for?
http://bunpou.neocities.org/%E5%9F%BA%E6%9C%ACbasic.html#%E3%8A%A6%20%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8F%E3%81%A6
http://bunpou.neocities.org/%E5%9F%BA%E6%9C%ACbasic.html#%E3%8A%A6%20%E3%81%A6%E3%82%82
http://bunpou.neocities.org/%E5%9F%BA%E6%9C%ACbasic.html#%E3%8A%A6%20%E3%81%9F%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6

>>148157568
Yeah it's frustrating as fuck, I was on a role yesterday, just feels like I'm wasting a fuck ton of time like this but I just can't help it

>>148157353
>From 'Japanese Learner Anki Package' which is the shit i have now.
That was put together as a complete offline package alternative to wanikani, when it was being posted a lot, to show anons that they don't need to pay for a program to teach them basic Japanese. It was for the anons who wanted an all-in-one programme type approach that didn't want to use textbooks. Basically something made to address the strawman that was being thrown about by anons who were trying to market the pay to learn model I mentioned at the start of the post.
Either way, learning kana shouldn't be an issue almost any way you approach it. You can safely refer to the suggestions in that guide and learn everything you need to know to get yourself on your feet in a couple of months, if that, unless you are really not at all suited to autodidactic learning.
Don't stress about the little things so much. In a week or two you'll probably wander why you were so doubtful of yourself in the first place.

>>148157568
the trick is to force yourself and do it regardless and you'll see that your comprehension is actually not significantly worse than other days. you're just not enjoying it as much or stressed out

>>148157353
Kana deck is fine - you should be doing production since kana are actually worth learning to write.

this guy >>148155096 speaks truth though

Are there any good resources about handwriting and calligraphy?

>>148155017
>Suspended/Buried: 1
Looks like your in for a surprise when you see that one kana in the future.

>>148158478
There are people in this thread right now who can't read ヴ.

>>148158724
probably more common to be unable to read ゑゐ　

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>>148157116
3DPD simply can't compete.

>>148159024
I really dislike this art style of the 2010's

I don't watch anime anymore but I think there were 2 highlights in artstyle. The late 80's/early 90's legend of galactic heroes style was really good.

Also ~2007 epitome of anime where everything was hyper realistic. Think Ergo proxy/Bacanno!

Ever since the moe-shit became more dominant I just started to drop anime alltogether.

Shinsekai was the last anime I watched. While the story was enjoyable the artstyle just made me sad.

>>148158724
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm28863955
It starts to get hilarious for all the wrong reasons around the 3:45 minute mark.

>>148159255
>moe-shit
Fuck off.

>>148152163
あおばちゃんの小さい口ほ中だししたい

>>148159460
Why is this so adorable

>>148159527
青葉ちゃんが俺の彼女だ
貴様はそんなことを言ったら殺すぜ

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>>148158137
>an all-in-one programme type approach that didn't want to use textbooks.
There are a lot of pdfs here, so i'm not so sure
>>148158372
I don't get what you mean by 'production', but i usually try to draw it using paint before looking for the answer.
>>148158478
Sometimes a press the wrong buttons, i suspect some of the buried are because of this.

>>148159255
You don't know shit.

>>148160071
>There are a lot of pdfs here, so i'm not so sure
You literally had to to be there are the time to understand what it was made for.
>I don't get what you mean by 'production', but i usually try to draw it using paint before looking for the answer.
It means taking the prompt and writing out the kana before seeing the answer, in order to test to see if you can physically write it out from memory, in this context. You are probably better off with a ballpoint pen and piece of paper, as above anything else that is going to be a lot faster unless you are using a Wacom tablet or something.
Writing out things in paint sounds like a nightmare.

>>148159663
来い!
わし怖くね

>>148160071
>Sometimes a press the wrong buttons, i suspect some of the buried are because of this.
http://ankisrs.net/docs/manual.html
Do a search for
>Keyboard Shortcuts
There are a lot of things mentioned in the manual that you probably wont find in the program itself unless you accidentally stumble upon it.

>>148159460
I watched the whole video but I still don't understand what the fuck ヴ is for.

>>148160315
ふふふ。。そっか
*刀を抜き放して*

>>148160447
It isn't really for anything aside foreign words that Japanese can't pronounce anyway.
I like how the nico wiki first main heading for ヴ is 中二病.
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/ヴ

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Anyone got some good NTR visual novel or hentai that doesn't have all too intricate language usage so I can still follow it?

I already read Muv-Luv. Was fucking unreadable and I had to switch to the english translated version when they started techno-babble. But the NTR was good.

>>148160634
>>>/wsr/

>>148160692
Not sure you can really use that in here

>>148160594
Oh okay I get it.
「バイオリン」→「ヴァイオリン」
Thanks.

>>148160447
It's just a v for words from other languages. Like
ヴィデオ and ヴァージン.

>>148160813
This is /a/.
Asking for recs get you banned.
Fuck off.

>>148160813
There are two VN threads. One over /jp/ and one over /vg/.

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>>148160498
わしは刀その物です

>>148160841
People ask for reading/listening resource recommendations in here all the time, makes perfect sense to do so considering the topic of this general

I'm not the guy who was asking for the rec btw

>>148160896
Yeah but those don't really tell a lot about the reasability in japanese.

djt usually have people that have themselves read a lot of shit so they usually know 1 or 2 with good readable japanese.

>>148160989
>considering the topic of this general
So you want double standards against the rules every other anon is banned with?
Fuck that. Either adapt to the standards of /a/ or fuck off.

I've noticed that some kanji are not appearing in my kanji grid even though they're in my deck.
>壱　弐　斤　斗　厘　侯　升　畝　朕　梗　埼　填　氾
Have any of you had this problem before?

>>148161304
It makes no sense going to /wsr/ to ask for an NTR VN that's easy to read in Japanese, no one's ever going to reply to that on there

It makes a lot more sense to ask in a thread for Japanese learning, or in the VN threads on /jp/ like that other guy suggested

It doesn't even say you're not allowed to ask for recs in the rules, it just says you're not allowed to make request threads, you sperg

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>>148153730
それは君が選んだ未来ですよ(真顔)

>>148161557
Fuck off to where ever you came from.

>>148160992
I don't know read much NTR so I can't help you. Ignore the idiot making shit up about rules that don't exist.

>>148161576
一刀両断！

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>>148161540
i made a deck with just those kanji and they show up

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Cat Cat Fluid Cat～
I can speak the fluid English～

Anon gave me what money he had. = Anon gave me what money that he had.
Is this correct?

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おはようおにいちゃん

すき

>>148162870
Anon gave me what he had -> Anon gave me the things that were available for giving away.

Anon gave me what money he had -> Anon gave me the money that was available for giving away.

Is started learning the nihongo about two weeks ago, finished with kana, basic phrases and basic particles.
I'm trying to learn the basics of adjectives now and haven't had anyone to judge my accuracy yet, so could somebody please just let me know if I've created these two basic short phrases in a grammatically correct way and that I've translated them into English correctly?
I just want reassurance I'm not missing something or fucking up already.

皆さんは元気ですか
>is everyone healthy?
うん、皆さんは元気な人です
>yeah, everyone is a healthy person

>>148156354
I remember it being translated as "just kidding" in something but I don't remember what. Not sure how accurate that is though.

>>148163340
judging by your post you should focus on english before tackling a language as advanced and sophisticated as japanese 爆笑

>>148163340
>grammatically correct way
Yea
>translated them into English correctly
Eh, yea. But very literally.

>>148156354
なんつってつっちゃった

>>148163296
Thanks:)

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>>148163280
ナデナデ

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>>148163442

Rikaicake, before you ask. Always nice to have a second opinion when possible.

>>148163809
なんつってっつっちゃったっ！？

>>148154489

You realize that the translator is most likely not natively bilingual, right? This means that either the translator is in the same boat (if you've seen raw/translation comparisons, you know that they're often worse than anyone who's actually gotten somewhere with the language; they're just fucking guessing their way through), or that they're in the same storm in the same model of boat with a different paint job.

You also realize that the cultural problem exists within your native tongue, right? Not all families within your country have the same family life, and not all people from the same town have a similar set of memories. When two people who grew up in the same neighborhood walk past the same restaurant, one person might remember eating his favorite steak with his family (a set of memories shared only within that group), while another might remember his first date with his cunt ex-girlfriend. Are these two capable of noticing and sharing the other's attitude towards the restaurant, despite their differing backgrounds in that regard? Definitely. Your mind isn't a brick wall that's incapable of empathizing with experiences that don't match its own.

Really, if your post were rationally sound, it would be pointless to talk to anybody (you won't understand them, so why bother?), and the very concept of translation would be retarded, because only native bilinguals who had active lives in both countries could grasp any cultural implications.

Is it worth doing JLPT N3 at all, or should I just try for N2 even if it might be a bit of a reach?

です〜だ
ですか〜？

>>148165329
Nothing but N1 is worth doing. If you think you'd fail right now that then study another year and go for it.

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>>148165047
>it would be pointless to talk to anybody (you won't understand them, so why bother?)

>>148165329

I honestly don't see a point doing the JLPT until you can pass the N1.

>>148165047
パスタだよ。

>>148165469
I think I'm good on vocab/kanji but the reading and listening sections might give me some trouble.
Right now probably not, but with a few months focusing on reading and listening I might be alright.
I know it's nowhere near as useful as N1, but it seems N2 can be enough proof of Japanese skill in some situations, whereas it seems N3 isn't useful for anything.

>>148165742
If you really want to take the test soon, think of it like this: failing N1 is better than acquiring N2. Since you'll know what comes at you and you can prepare for a pretty much guaranteed get the next time. The only thing speaking for N2 now is if you have a job prospect that needs it or something.

>>148155497
>>148156334
You have the all-on-one learning pack. Please upload that for us. We lost it a few months ago when the uploader deleted it.

>>148155755
heres the rough run down "blah blah moe moe fart toot*

>>148154489
Dekinai-chan please leave.

>>148154489
heres the dirty little secret japanese isnt hard unless youre a white person on the other side of the world locked in his bedroom looking at flashcards all day

>>148166649
What if I'm an Asian person on the other side of the world locked in my bedroom watching anime all day?

>>148166649
It's not even particularly hard in those circumstances, unless you're being a little bitch.

>>148166826
outlook is moderate to good

>>148167314
i guess if you still regularly communicate with real people on the internet

>>148167508
嬉しい

>思う
>想う
>懐う

>聞く
>聴く
>訊く

>見る
>観る
>視る

wtf i hate japanese now

>>148168000
for the love of god teach english anywhere else in the world

>>148168083
Why?

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>>148161540
I did as >>148162339 and they all show up for me too.

Is there anything showing up in your kanji grid as just a box with a cross through it or something to that effect? This indicates that your font doesn't contain a glyph for the character you're trying to display. Those "cross boxes", if you see any, probably correspond to these missing characters.

>>148164498
>Rikaicake
Thanks for posting this, seems like it might come in handy.

Does it have a lot of these untranslated colloquial expressions in it? If it does, it might be worth adding a mention of it in the guide or on the resources page.

>>148168017
>懐う
I've never seen this one used.

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>>148168869
It was created for that purpose, so yes. It's saved me some trouble quite a number of times, especially the "alternative definition or a usage example" part.

BTW, you can grab only the dictionary file and use it with Rikaisama. That should be the preferred set up for DJT.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/rikaicake-jp-en-dictionary/

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>>148170107
And be sure to either give the dictionary priority in the settings or delete the original dictionary file.

>>148170107
>>148170370
>BTW, you can grab only the dictionary file and use it with Rikaisama. That should be the preferred set up for DJT.
>And be sure to either give the dictionary priority in the settings or delete the original dictionary file.
Already done these. Thanks though.

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How many hours of exposure to the japanese language do you have daily?

Certainly you're not forgetting about this crucial detail in language learning, are you anon?

>>148170753
3+

>>148170753
I finish like 5 13-episode series per week, plus at least two volumes of manga and DJT shitposting

Today I did Anki for 34 minutes and then I read a visual novel for 3 hours and 4 minutes.

>>148170753
It's not a detail, it's everything.

>>148171213
What Anki deck do you do?

>>148171675
My mining deck.

>>148170753
A few hours of chinese cartoons, but that's about it. I'm in kanji mode right now, so I've put grammar and vocab on hold.

I wish I'd learned kanji first, but I was hoping the lazy route of just learning them through vocab would work for me. Unfortunately, by the end of Core2K, I was still consistently mixing up similar ones and often couldn't even recognise words I knew when they were displayed in small fonts (such as in these threads; I would use rikaisama on a word only to realise that I already knew it). Now I'm probably going to have to re-read Tae Kim when I'm done with jouyou in order to jog my memory.

>>148171738
How much vocab you got?

>>148171765
>I wish I'd learned kanji first, but I was hoping the lazy route of just learning them through vocab would work for me.

Well that's the key isn't it- if you treat it like a lazy route it doesn't work. The idea is to pay close attention to the radicals, readings and meanings as you go along, not to rush through as fast as you can. The order is optimized especially for this purpose.

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>>148171765
I'm the reverse of you. I studied kanji first. And now my entire Japanese comprehension is based around "search the kanji". kana-only vocab is near impossible for me and listening to japanese is still ching-chong.

I think you need to learn vocab/grammar/kanji all at the same time without giving a priority to one. I fucked myself up big time by focusing on kanji at first.

>>148155805
>genji
Maybe if you hate youreself

>>148168017
No. It's useful rather than difficult.
You can use each meanings even if you don't know the kanji.

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Why do I feel like this book is going to give me nightmares?

>>148172649
You're aware this is a universal problem solved by reading and listening more right?

If you could forget your native language, but in exchange understand Japanese with the same proficiency, would you do it?

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It's been 2 years since I started learning Japanese, and 1 year since I stopped using Anki.

Heed my advice; I am from the future. Keep using Anki. Don't fall for the "just read" meme. Don't turn out like I did.

>>148173374
no. my native language is english. too useful.

>>148172649
I've been doing kanji and vocab together, but admittedly have been slacking on grammar. I did skim Tae Kim years ago the first time I tried to learn Japanese and gave up within a couple of weeks, but obviously I haven't really retained much of that now. Not sure if I should start gradually working it in with Genki or something, or just try to cram TK a second time right before I seriously get into reading (waiting until I have at least 2000+ words at a mature level to keep this from being too painful for me, at 1870 right now with 602 mature kanji) and hope the reading experience forces me to retain the important points better this time.

>>148171765
I find switching up your fonts for reviews can help a lot with that recognition problem of being tripped up by a different or smaller font. I have a running list of 7 or so that I randomize between, was tough at first but now I barely even notice and feel like I've gotten much better at recognizing handwritten or weird fonts.

>>148173494
Don't bother with genki. If you find tae Kim too boring or dry, try Japanese the Manga Way- they include examples from real manga which will help introduce you to the process of reading for yourself, and though its slower you might find it more engaging. Then you can go back through tae Kim later to revise and firm up your understanding, and pick up some concepts that jtmw misses.

>>148156932
Are you on the scale?

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>>148160839
>ヴァージン

>>148173396
How can anyone be so lazy as to stop anki altogether? All you have to do is set new cards to zero and the workload rapidly shrinks down to a matter of a few minutes.

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>look up 模 on google images ('imitation' according to Heisig)
>get loads of pics of cute asians
>realize they're all 'fake'

>>148174134
It wasn't entirely laziness, it was mainly hubris. I haven't checked this thread in a year, so I'm not sure if this just died out and nobody knows what I'm talking about anymore, but back then people were constantly suggesting to just read everyday. Reading is very very important, but it's only half the battle. I'm much better at comprehending now but my vocabulary isn't as good as it could be.

TL;DR just do both. You have nothing to lose but some to gain.

>>148174331
>just read everyday
That is, read everyday and ditch anki. Basically rely only on reading for vocab.

Do you practice handwriting as well as reading, or just focus on reading?

>>148173981
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txjRyAJkfdE

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>>148174661
>handwriting
なんでんなことしなきゃなんねぇんだよ？

>>148173374
>forgetting Portuguese in exchange for becoming fluent in Japanese
Fuck no. I'd rather be tortured to death a thousand times than miss out on masterpieces like Fernando Pessoa's and Camões' works for some useless weebshit.

>>148174661
Both.

>>148173374
Absolutely not.

>>148173374
Do I get to retain my second language? If so, yes.

>>148174700
>なんでんなことしなきゃなんねぇんだよ？
なんなんでなぁんなんきゃなんなんだよね

>>148175391
Just out of curiosity, what is your native language?

>>148175480
Portuguese.

>>148175558
>brazilian self-hater
Kill yourself, my man

Today I did Anki for 56 minutes and that's all I did.

>>148175605
That's not it. Learning Portuguese as an English/Japanese speaker is much easier than learning Japanese as a Portuguese/English speaker, so it seems like an obvious choice to me.

>>148173374

No.

Fucking everything has English support, and wherever you go in the world, there's probably somebody nearby who speaks English. English as a native tongue is playing on easy mode.

>>148175605
>prideful hue
Wat

>>148175696
You might not realize it since you've been hearing and speaking Portuguese since you were born, but conjugations and tenses are actually hell for people trying to learn it.
Can't really blame them though. After all, even natives are retarded when it comes to grammar.

>>148175828
I may hate my country's corrupt politics and my people, but I would never turn my back on my land and my language.

>>148173396
In another year you'll be saying you should have stuck with "just read" the whole time.

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is anki really the best way to learn kanji? it's been months and I can't remember more than a handful. am i retarded?

アノン、捨てると投げると何を違うんですか
辞書は手伝わなかった　=/

>>148175921
Kanji alone makes Japanese harder by a mile. Not to mention that I would continue to live in Brazil, which would make learning the language even easier due to constant exposure.
By the way, I don't view this as forsaking my nation or anything like that, but rather, as the most efficient path, since I intend to be fluent in all 3 languages either way. I love this country, in fact.

>>148176097
anki alone? if so, no, you should pick a kanji method and do its respective anki deck

>>148176171
Honestly, I don't think kanji is that hard. It's just rote learning and memorization.
Also, even japanese people forget some - if not most - of them by the time they graduate, so I don't believe it plays such an important role in fluency or proficiency. Just learn enough of it to be able to read what you want and be done with it.

>I love this country, in fact
gud boi

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I'm looking for some movies to start shadowing. Would you have any that you would like to recommend?

Ones with subs would be helpful so I don't make a translation error on my end after watching.

>>148176031

Not him, but from a similar background.

If anything, my experiences with anki, reading, and listening have just reinforced that it's a good idea to ride that wave all the way to the day where you find that there's not a whole lot left to learn. It sucks, and you do need to couple it with practical studies in order to utilize its full potential, but it's definitely the fastest and most reliable way to build your vocabulary.


>>148176097

You might need a bit of extra help.

If you haven't been using kanjidamage or RTK, give one of those a try.

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>>148176377
>tan lines

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>>148176377
>>148176525
>tanlines

>>148176444
Surely that's easier said than done: I know about 1600 kanji and I still can't read anything other than simple manga comfortably. In any case, kana + 城東漢字 is definitely more difficult than 26 letters and a few accents, even if we have a much broader range of phonemes. And forgetting how to write kanji is one thing, but I doubt being unable to recognize regular use kanji is common among natives.

>>148176128
そんな辞書は窓から投げ捨てろ

what do you guys use to read manga?

>>148177288
My eyes

>>148177288
眼

>>148177288
My ability to derive meaning from words.

>>148175921
Meant for >>148175827
>almost an hour llater
wtf brain

>>148176711
I've heard some japanese people who've been here in Brazil for ages speaking Portuguese and their accent was simply horrendous. I'd definitely not want that for me kek
But, yeah, I get what you mean. Still, if anything, being born to a very proud Japanese or nikkei family here in Brazil would best the best possible outcome, in my opinion

>>148176097
You don't have to remember them, you just have to be able to read them. Can you draw every icon on your desktop from memory?

>>148176503
Well I said that because I too have also gone through it.

But I've gone back and forth a bunch of times and at one point I even remember coming on here and telling people my experience saying that anki was without a doubt the only way to go.

Eventually I stopped anki again and just did reading and the rate of learning is pretty spectacular.

My conclusion isn't that anki is bad. My conclusion is definitely use anki but only up to a certain point.

Learning Japanese vocab/kanji is like filling a bunch of cups. Using anki is like filling cups to the top 1-by-1. Learning by reading is like distributing water evenly between 10,000 cups.

Distributing water evenly into each cup would take forever. Some of the water may even evaporate and you'll be wondering if there was ever any water in it at all the next time you come back around to it.
Anki lowers the amount of cups. Say you cut that in half by filling 5000 of the cups to the top with anki. Now when you do the distributed method (reading) more water goes into each cup.

There is a point when using anki isn't as helpful as reading. At some point filling cups to 1/3 each is going to get you learning a lot faster than if you only filled 1/3 of the remaining cups.

>>148177333
>>148177342
>>148177473
sorry let me rephrase the question
I'm very curious about which computer software DJT posters employ in order to read digitalized copies of Japanese comic books (漫画, manga). Your input would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

>>148177655
Microsoft Windows 7

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>>148177288
MMCEです

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ユリは有利だっけ

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>>148177849
百合だよ
利益はない

>>148177546
>my land and my language
Both got turned into shit by the hue "people". You just have some sort of stockholm syndrome.

How much Japanese should I know if I want to be a translator for a scanlation group?

>>148178279
It can't be helped.

>>148178308
None, most translations are just MTL with some editing.

Why are you guys so fucking terrified of anki? It's not as if it has to take up your whole day. If it's taking too much of your time then just lower the new card count, it's not rocket science

>>148178279
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man

>>148178359
It brings to the surface the fact that you need to forget in order to learn.

People feel cheated when they "learn" something only to be shown that actually haven't. It feels like not getting paid for doing work. And you get to feel this way daily. For years.

>>148178308
Your ability to write good English is the most important thing.

If you can do that, and are also able to read manga in Japanese without having to guess what anything means, you can be a translator.

But you'll still probably be a shit translator.

>>148176097
>am i retarded?
No, just gay.

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>>148178588
>It brings to the surface the fact that you need to forget in order to learn.
..考えさせる事を言うね　

>>148176377
What does this have to do with anime or manga?
Nothing.
You are everything wrong with /a/.
Fuck off.

>>148177655
Tablet and ORC manga reader.
http://forum.koohii.com/thread-11121.html

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What does this mean, i can recognize ki and te

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@148179287

>>148179287
>suki, kedo
>(I) like (it), but

>>148177655
Memeing aside, you should use kanjitomo. Pretty sure it's listed in the guide but whatever

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Cute.

Watching a guy playing Dies Irae on twitch while reading and translating it. It's a nice class if your level is medium-high.

>>148180660
だろう？

>we literally have a vip board now
we 2ch now?

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>>148176097
I got this far (775 kanji) in a month just doing rote. Anki gives me the meaning, then I try to write the character out from memory.

What are you doing to learn them?

>>148181180
Anki is not rote. That's like the whole point of its existence.

Do I really have to study every day if I want to learn Japanese? Or can I just do it on weekends or something? I'm pretty busy during the week.

>>148181298
>Anki is a spaced repetition flashcard program.
>Rote learning is a memorization technique based on repetition.

Anki is rote. It's just efficient rote. Rather than reviewing shit that you already know pretty well over and over again, you spend more time reviewing stuff you're weak on and newer material.

>>148181468
Every. Damn. Day.

>>148177626
That's kind of a bad analogy. A better one would be, can you draw all of the English alphabet from memory?

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If you can't understand this sign immediately you're still a beginner

>>148181504
That's an even worse analogy and you know it.

>>148181489
Thing is I am pretty busy with work, and what time I have at home needs to be at least partially dedicated to taking care of my kids, not a lot really left for focused study. I can maybe fit a few hours in the weekend but anything else would really be pushing it.

>>148181526
Don't litter because it hurts the feelings of the mountain ?

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>>148180744
Comfy

>>148181571
>kids
Ruh-roh

>>148181298
Intentional acquisition through repetition (even if mnemonics aid the repetition) is rote. Passive acquisition or acquisition through skillbuilding are not rote.

>>148181659
I tried streaming VNs once but I got embarrassed and self-conscious so I had to stop.

>>148181571
Well, I'm only a couple months into my learning but I can tell you that even with studying everyday and living a near NEET lifestyle, I have barely scratched the surface.

I would say that you can't learn Japanese.

>>148181723
Well it's not like I need to learn right away or anything, just figure that maybe if I can make some progress within the next 10-20 years I might be glad I did.

Is it worth learning all the hiragana? Or can I just learn the most commonly used ones and get the rest through repeated exposure?

>>148181770
Make your kids learn Japanese. Stay one step ahead of them so you can figure out what is suitable for teaching them next.

This is legitimate field-tested advice.

>>148181770
Lol okay. In 20 years your future phone will probably be able translate everything or some shit, just wait for that you god damn normie.

>>148181711
Is it possible to learn languages without some degree of rote memorization

>>148181843
you should be learning hentaigana instead

>>148181843
kek

>>148181894
That's right. Rote memorization helps a lot with opening up the door to passive acquisition, though.

>>148181905
>not imoutogana

>>148181646

一人ぐらいいいだろう、俺がポイ捨てしたところで影響は凄く小さいから大丈夫じゃん

という一人ひとりの考え方が、結果としてゴミの山を生むことになる

Tragedy of the commonsということだね

>>148181659
>that tard in chat thinking 交わす means to dodge for the past 10 minutes

>>148152533
can someone post the 無茶苦茶 version?

>>148182326
He doesn't deserve Glassunhat-sama's stream.

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>>148177626
I think the ability to write kanji is more related to the ability to spell English words.

After all, there are words with complicated spellings that you can recognise when you see them, but if someone prompted you to actually write those words yourself then you might not be able to do it. The same can be said of kanji. There are easy kanji that anyone could write without effort (一、山、人), but then there are others which you would need to have practiced in order to be able to write them.

Kanji goes beyond English spelling though because many kanji in common use only differ from other common kanji by a single radical, which means that there's not only a barrier to writing them but also a barrier to simply recognising them.

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>>148182399

>>148182480
>Kanji goes beyond English spelling though because many kanji in common use only differ from other common kanji by a single radical, which means that there's not only a barrier to writing them but also a barrier to simply recognising them.


through
though
trough
tough
rough

>>148182611
And don't forget "thorough"

>>148182611
"Through" and "though" I'll give you, but I've never mixed up any of the others you posted.

So in the end there are 2 English words which are fairly easy to misread compared to hundreds of kanji.

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>>148182326
>b-but google translate says it's dodge

>>148182722
That's just one example. Of course, english words are much different than kanji radicals because they're sequential and take up different amounts of space and the shapes of lowercase letters are designed to be highly distinguishable once put into words, but there's still another level above what you covered, just one that written english is still easier than kanji in.

>>148182729
躱す means dodge and it's pretty much always written in kana

>>148182589
this one is good,though not what i was looking for

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Is Dies Irae actually that hard to read? It doesn't seem that way. What's difficult about it?

>>148183103
It's hard to translate not read

You need an excellent grasp of both literary english and literary japanese in order to translate it properly

To read it and get the 90% comprehension that most people get from media, you just have to be literate in japanese

thもghも全部滅びればいいよ

>>148183233
'atta boy

>>148183139
It's hard to read too.

But it's hard to read in a way that would be hard to read in any language. It's not really so dependent upon the Japanese.

Like，there's like 10 bad guys and each has 3 fucking names that are used interchangably and they keep talking about characters that you have barely seen for a few minutes so it takes hours until you have some idea what the fuck is going on.

Also it's overrated as fuck.

How long did it take you guys to read and comprehend things at a comfortable rate?

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Is the Anonymous Core 5000 (anon5k) deck still being maintained?

>>148183486
I spent 7years after I was born:)

>>148183599
If you have any suggestions I'm all ears. The deck as-is functions as a copy of the information that the dictionary itself is supposed to contain (i.e. it has some errors and typos and the deck fixes them), but I've been slowly working on a "redux" version with example sentences from identifiable media and stripping out most of the grammatical stuff.

>>148183454
>To be honest, those who are just expecting Fate or something will probably be disappointed. The games plot is basically outright parody of chuu2 battle royal stories. It's fights and embracing of chuu2 tropes are mostly used as a way to discuss how we approach the rather warped method of storytelling, and how we interact with fiction as a whole. It embraces every cliche that one would expect out of a battle royal in order to make a statement about them, for better or worse, and why they are both silly and boring, and why they can be great.

>People who are familiar with the philosophy of Nietzsche and Goethe Faust will probably get the most out of Dies, though, as the story's biggest themes emanate from those 2 sources. It's a story in large part about the human dream of being more than what they are, and the life we leave behind in pursuit of it. Mentioning any more would be a spoiler, though, and this is mostly just my interpretation of it, so take it as you will.

Could you tell me if this guy is talking out of his ass or not?

>>148183897
50/50

The game is definitely pure camp. It's more like an indulgence in the chuuni by someone that understands it and who's self aware about chuuni.

>>148183855
I remembered seeing a post by you some time back saying you were going to do that stuff. Just wondered if it had come to fruition or not, or whether you had given up on the idea.

Are the changes anywhere near complete, or is there still quite a lot left to do?

>>148183990
When it's not something that's pretty much automated (like making the deck in the first place), I'm a very slow worker. I have no idea when I'll finish.

I could probably just strip out the grammatical terms in the course of a few days, but I have a different vision than that. I also want to strip out regular compound words, and that requires judgment, which is very draining.

I think I'm somewhere around halfway done, but I could be anywhere from a quarter to three quarters really.

File: 私わたしが行いきましょう。.png (160KB, 624x732px) Image search: [Google]

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「私わたしが行いきましょう。」Is this sentence supposed to have sense? I don't get it. What should it mean??

>>148185227
I'll go

>>148185246
Then, shouldn't it be 私が行きます? What is the need for しょう?

>>148185364
because japan has 50 ways to say everything with various levels of politeness/forcefulness

>>148185227
I'll go / I'll going would be better translations for that sentence.

>>148185227
ましょう is the volitional form of ます

>>148185500
>I'll going
Oops, *I'm going.

>>148182041
Oh i see, it makes more sense.
Thanks.

>>148183855
>stripping out most of the grammatical stuff
If I wanted to do this myself, how would I go about it?

Just delete all cards with aux., conj., cp., p.*, prefix or suf. in the "part1" field from the deck? I just tried this as an experiment and it doesn't seem to have wiped out too many cards from the deck (there are still 4766 left).

>>148185500
>>148185538

I'm going is a bad translation - you're either misunderstanding the English or the Japanese

私が行きましょう sounds like a proposal, whereas "I'm going" is either much more forceful (I'm going, you can't stop me) or sounds like it is something you have decided long ago and are just informing the other party of things that have already been settled (I'm going. I bought the tickets 10 days ago).

>>148185722
You would want to, in a spreadsheet editor, sort by first "part of speech" and second "index" or "modified index". Then find sections of grammatical terms and manually select ones you want to delete.

>it doesn't seem to have wiped out too many cards from the deck (there are still 4766 left).

That's true. I would manually select things in each section because the dictionary does not necessarily label things correctly. For example, some simple numbers are labeled as nouns, while other simple numbers are labeled as numbers.

>>148185440
Rip. That is such a pain.

So which is more polite between the two? What are the implications in those particular expressions?

>>148185503
Then it really should be "Shall I go" or "I'll go" like >>148185500 said. This Anki deck has too many dubious translations.

>>148185930
it's translating it as meaning "how about I go" which is still wrong

that would be valid translation of maybe the te-miru construction, but not this one

>>148185733
Then, it is kind of "Shall we go with me in doing x activity?"

>>148185984
Ohh really, is that so. Then, >>148186000 my reply is also wrong.

How would you translate then "How about I go?" in Japanese?

>>148186038
>Ohh really, is that so. Then, >>148186000 my reply is also wrong.
It's closer. I don't remember whether ましょう is the volitional (I'll go) or inducement (let's go) mode, though.
>How would you translate then "How about I go?" in Japanese?
I don't know, let me ask google translate

>>148186038
"How bout I go" would be 私が行きましょうか
But without the か it's a bit more definite. More like "Okay, I'll go". But still feels a bit like the speaker going it is to the benefit of all parties

I'll go. (please stop me anyone please)

>>148186106
In this way, is it like late middle english's usage of "shall"?

>>148186194
i am not a native speaker of late middle english

>>148185984
It works as an answer to a question like 誰が行くか or　誰かが行かなくてはいけないけど

But I agree it's a bad example sentence to use for such a simple word.

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>play console games in Japanese
>realize I can't read some of the kanji I already know because it's in a different font

します。
しましょう。
してあげましょう。
して差し上げましょう。

>>148186226
starting in the 14th century, english grammar treated "will" and "shall" differently. "will" was used in futures involving "one's will", and "shall" corresponded to the latin simple future tense. however, this particular distinction did not last long, and only lead to distinctions like this in modern english (copied from wikipedia because it's such a good example)

>I shall drown; no one will save me! (expresses the expectation of drowning, simple expression of future occurrence)
>I will drown; no one shall save me! (expresses suicidal intent: first-person will for desire, third-person shall for "command")

in this way, "shall" indicates an expectation of the right thing for a particular party to do, while "will" indicates an expectation of what will actually happen, kind of like a rotation of the 14th century prescription.

>>148185733
because は and が have no english equivalent theres no distinction between this が 'ill be the one [of many] to go' or は 'dont give a shit about all of you but im going' which you apply to the direct english of 'ill go.' The spoken tone of it in english decides the difference and doesnt show up in print

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How long do you study anon?

>>148186327
tl;dr:

shall corresponds to should
will corresponds to would

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>>148186342

neah

>>148186426
nobody ever says that because it's like saying "I I will go"

>>148186440
Nobody ever says it because it's wrong japanese

>>148186468
and "I I will go" is wrong english

>>148186497
Yes, but the similarity ends there

>>148186504
not really