Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1692

First for dysfluency

>>148048242
That wasn't me, heed your own advice and stop posting the "who are you quoting" meme.

>>148048399
Stop shitposting.

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>>148048434

>>148048399
"who are you quoting" is a meme when it's used in response to r9k stories

when someone is actually deliberately mis-quoting something, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "who are you quoting"

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>>148048135
You wouldn't have had the need to use hookers in the first place if you knew how kanji are read even you're unfamiliar with the meaning of words they compose, you know? Your entire argument rests on presenting an obvious flaw in your method as its strength. I wonder if you're forced to check the dictionary every single time you're trying to learn a new word instead of gleaming its meaning based on its composition and the context.
>>148048153
That's not even me you were replying to.
>>148048189
> You use が when you're tagging the second person after a negative imperative.
Yep, one of those people. I bet you think a phrase like 「コーヒー超好きだ、あいつは。」 is dysfluent, too.

>>148048672
>I bet you think a phrase like 「コーヒー超好きだ、あいつは。」 is dysfluent, too.
I don't see the problem with that phrase.

I don't understand why you somehow think が is an appropriate particle in the imperative. 食べるな、君が is obviously not fluent. This is the same.

http://www.kecl.ntt.co.jp/icl/lirg/resources/goitokusei/test-sheet1.html
http://www.kecl.ntt.co.jp/icl/lirg/resources/goitokusei/test-sheet2.html
http://www.kecl.ntt.co.jp/icl/lirg/resources/goitokusei/test-sheet3.html

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>>148048769
が can be used with the imperative.
An omitted subject can be clarified at the end of a sentence.

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>>148048769
> 食べるな、君が is obviously not fluent
Correct.
> This is the same.
Incorrect.
It's almost cute how you're trying to read me a lecture when you obviously haven't a clue as to what I actually said.

>>148048862
I didn't say "you can't use が with the imperative". I was very clearly referring to the use he used it in last thread.
>なめるな、野郎が。
>>148048882
なめる・食べる
野郎・君
Word by word.

>>148048836
Inflated as fuck. I've studied about 4000 words in Anki and only read easy manga, and my average score was 13000.

>>148048672

So in other words-

>Do you waste loads of time trying learn like a baby because of your ego?
>Do you try to piece kanji that you know together, resulting in nonsense?
>Do you waste time going to a dictionary page every single time that you encounter something that you don't know?

...These.

You're doing a very good job of proving that you're in no position to tell others how to progress to an advanced level in the language.

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>>148048986
> Word by word.
c l u e l e s s
l
u
е
l
e
s
s

Seeing how fluent you obviously are, I'd like to know your JLPT level and how long it took you to get there.

>>148049068
N1, year and a half.

>>148048986
His example does sound a little weird, but it's possible.

For example, when I google "死ね、このクソ虫が" I get five results where it is used by Japanese people.

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>>148048862
覚えておきます

>>148049159
That's because 死ぬ has irregular morphosyntactic alignment, as do all punctual verbs.

>>148049059
> your method is inefficient if you don't need text hookers
Is what you're saying. I've spent less time learning, yes, like a baby than you have hooking shit. But I guess being clueless about how the language works and having to rely on hooking eroges all day, every day is the more efficient option.
>>148049085
Ha ha. I'll take it you're to embarrassed to answer. That's fine, too.

>>148049297
>Ha ha. I'll take it you're to embarrassed to answer. That's fine, too.
That's literally your answer.

>>148049222
You're officially clueless. This is what hooking does to you, dog! Game over, man, game over!

>>148049362
Cries of someone who pretends to have learned japanese

>>148049336
Yes, it is my answer. Not yours. When I avoid a direct question, it's usually because I don't want to answer honestly.
>>148049381
> projecting
I'm not the one who hasn't a clue, dysfluency-kun.

>>148049431
>Yes, it is my answer. Not yours. When I avoid a direct question, it's usually because I don't want to answer honestly.
Hint: "your answer" when spoken by someone who was asked a question means "the answer you asked for". I directly answered exactly what you asked. What's my JLPT level? N1. How long did it take me to get there? A year and a half. That's what you asked for. That's what you receive. There's no avoidance there.

>>148049431
>Yes, it is my answer.

Are you stupid or something?

>>148049431
No, you said three years, not a year and a half.

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>>148049486
Wait, so you're actually at N1 and get stuck at turns of speech like the one I used? wew lad

>>148049598
Made perfect sense to me, m8, I merely said it was dysfluent. Because it is.

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>>148049627
I'll repeat myself: that's what you get for hooking. I bet you even think that reading eroges gave you actual practice with live Japanese.

>>148049728
I don't read eroge, I read adult fiction like 有頂天家族

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>>148049780
Too bad adult fiction didn't teach you to recognise fluency.
> i-if I keep checking with the dictionary and the textbook, I can pretend I am actually fluent!
I'd say that you have a world to learn yet, but refer to attached image.

>>148050028
Who are you quoting?

>>148050028
Who are you quoting?

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I'm having fun learning Japanese, and there is nothing you can do about it.

>>148049627
It would have sounded much more natural if he had omitted the が and just said なめるな、この野郎 or something similar.

But you're an insufferable cunt who acts like he has something to prove to everyone and I don't personally like you.

>>148050292
grats

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>the last half dozen cards that feel like stuffing things in an overflowing suitcase

>>148050304
>It would have sounded much more natural if he had omitted the が and just said なめるな、この野郎 or something similar.
Yes, and that's how it was dysfluent.

>But you're an insufferable cunt who acts like he has something to prove to everyone and I don't personally like you.
He's the insufferable cunt here. Try reading the argument he started.

>>148050353
You're the one who called him "one of those people" for making a simple mistake without even explaining what he did wrong.

I'm not going to reply to anything else you say because arguments like this just shit up the only thread on /a/ I read anymore. It just pisses me off when people who more or less know what they're doing already traipse in here and start shitting on beginners and acting like they're doing them favors.

>>148050304
> It would have sounded much more natural if he had omitted the が and just said なめるな、この野郎 or something similar.
Wait, so I can gauge a person's fluency based on how they react to the 「が」 at the end of the sentence? That's hilarious.
But yeah, people use constructions like 「野郎が」 all the time. I'm actually surprised you people don't know.
>>148050353
> passed N1
> thinks that 「野郎が」 is dysfluent
Point and laugh at him.

>>148050304
Really? Him and not the reaction images guy?

>>148050513
>You're the one who called him "one of those people" for making a simple mistake without even explaining what he did wrong.
I never said that.

>>148050513
>You're the one who called him "one of those people"
That's what 野郎が guy did, though.

Ah, DJT. Still as toxic as ever, I see.

>>148050531
>removing context to make your argument seem reasonable

が at the end of a sentence usually acts as a conjunction, but when it's acting as a subject particle, then the sentence has to be sensible with the subject being supplied first instead.

野郎がなめるな as a single clause, where 野郎 is referring to the second person who you're giving the order to, is not fluent. Now it would be fluent if が were marking the object of なめる, but it's not, it's marking the subject.

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All right, lads, I'll give you a hint: pic related.
>>148050513
> You're the one who called him "one of those people" for making a simple mistake without even explaining what he did wrong.
No, that actually was me. By "those people" I meant the silly dunces who think that they are fluent as long as they keep to the letter of the grammar textbook. Kind of pointless to argue with them.

>>148050693

>toxic

Your tumblr blog is over there.

>>148050717
Did anybody cite a grammar text?

>>148050693
It's just one guy and he's easy to recognize

>>148050693
お帰りなさい～長い旅でお腹すいたでしょ

>>148050709
> 野郎がなめるな
But that's not how the phrase is "supposed" to look. Try again~
>>148050745
> You use が when you're tagging the second person after a negative imperative.

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Who /taking the JLPT/ this year?
What level are you going for? How many times have you taken it?

Its my first time this year, and I'm going for the N2

>>148050804
The "you" in that quote is second person, not generic person.

>>148050832
first time, n3

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>なんだｘみれか
What on earth is the kanji in the middle?

>>148050836
He was still going by the textbook. Protip: people who are actually fluent don't need to go by the textbook.

>>148050869
learn kana

>>148050869
す
weird handwriting, don't beat yourself up over it, just get used to it

>>148050869
す

>>148050832
How does the N1 work?
You have to take it in person correct?

>>148050905
Where was he going by the textbook? He was just observing what the person in question was doing.

>>148050928
> doing tests online
Shit, I wish.

>>148050832
N1 first time
I would hope to get near 100% but it might not be likely considering I decided to learn mandarin and shitpost about it in DJT instead of going through the 新完全マスター読解 book and watching more anime.

>>148050955
> observing
While checking with the textbook. Don't be obtuse.

>>148050804
>But that's not how the phrase is "supposed" to look. Try again~
It is. That's the correct interpretation of what you wrote. If you meant to say something else, you said it incorrectly. Of course, you're going to pretend you didn't, and never say what you """meant""" to say, because pretending is your last line of defense.

>>148050832

I feel like I could pass at least the N2 in regards to my reading (can read business documents with relative consistency, and can sometimes read for a few minutes with VNs without having to look anything up), but I might fail even the N3-level listening exam. We'll see how my listening progresses over the next few months, since I've decided to start putting some time into it daily as of just a few days ago.

That said, I don't really intend to take the JLPT until I feel that I'm at JLPT N1 level on all fronts.

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>>148050832
N5, 3 times. しかし！今年こそできます！この決心を見せてやるぜ　

>>148051000
What textbook was he checking? I don't see anything about textbooks in his post.

>>148050959
Thought maybe you could do it like the pretests online, cant alt tab etc.
Fuck

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>>148050906
>>148050912
>>148050918
Ugh, yeah, I've never seen the horizontal slash so short. Thanks

今日の日本語

ノコギリ貸していただけます？ジョーの奴、太り過ぎでコインロッカーひとつに入り切らなくて。

>>148050928
>You have to take it in person correct?
Well yeah. Its the "official" japanese test. Its like any other test. Its similar to the JCAT, if you've taken it.

>>148050959
>tfw got lucky and a test location is within a couple hour drive

>>148051016
Its going to be a close one for me. JCAT places me just below N2, and I know over 1.3k Kanji and 6k words. I'm going to be studying nothing but words that will be on the N2 test for the month.
I think I'll get by on listening, but I'm a bit worried about the kanji section. Kana words are hard.

>>148050991
You reading that front to back?
I am

>>148051044
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPQdc1qfWrg

>>148051109
なんてかわいいドラゴンだ。

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>>148051044
>n5
>3 times
Anon...

>>148051147
I'm not reading it at all as I said.

I did go through the 文法 and 語彙 ones though. The latter I just skimmed through and mined words, and the former I went through like 20 pages a day and made some anki cards for the things I wasn't completely comfortable with, or for asking what the "trick" to watch out for with certain grammar points were. And I actually learned a decent amount from it (unlike 総まとめ　文法 from which I learned absolutely nothing I didn't already know). I think I just can't motivate myself to read the dokkai one on the screen, so I may actually buy it.

It doesn't really matter since I'm sure I could have passed without any of this but some of the essays and such are actually kinda interesting and it's practice with a different kind of writing than what you see in fiction.

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>>148051009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzWWBExJg5g

I can't fucking believe I actually had to link you all fluent speakers to a fucking video proof. Holy fucking dekinai.

>>148051242
probably took it once out of college then immediately afterwards thinking it was a fluke

test

>>148051284
That's a third person, not a second person. Also, there's no imperative.

>>148051044
You wrote a grammatically correct sentence there you're guaranteed to be at least N4.

>>148051331
> if I juggle grammar terms hard enough, that'll change the meaning of the original line!
アホが。

>>148051393
There's nothing wrong with using が when tagging a third person in a statement. I never said otherwise.

Marking the second person with が in an imperative directed at said second person, on the other hand, is in fact dysfluent.

まみれとだらけ
whats the nuance there? not much?

he's pretending he tried to say

なめるなぁ、野郎が。

where なぁ is the な from stuff like 知てるよな

but that's obviously not what he was trying to say in context because the statement was directed directly at the person he was responding to

>>148051463
Help me figure out what the difference between his 野郎が sentence and a construction like "お前が言うな" is, please.

>>148051463
Stop posting.

>>148051554
oh, and it would be unnatural even if he really did mean that, and that's one of the things that dysfluent encompasses

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>>148051463
You're so fucking dekinai I don't even—
…She was speaking in second person. Watch the video again. If you can't even tell that she was speaking in second person, then you should start again from N5. Here, even other people agree with me now.

>>148051593
http://vocaroo.com/?upload

>>148051576
nice phone bro >>148051317

>>148051615
>…She was speaking in second person.
That's not a thing. You don't know what "speaking in the Nth person" means. That also doesn't have an effect on the phrase she used.

>>148051554
> he's pretending he tried to say
No. I have even sent video proof of a native speaker doing the same thing as me. You're マジで failing N5 level now.
>>148051664
Then I guess she was dysfluent. You're the expert on that.

>>148051570
there is none

>>148051685
She didn't use the same construction. You're grasping at straws.

>>148051463
Think of it this way dude
You can talk to someone directly, but you can also insult them by talking indirectly about them in a way they are meant to hear. In this way, even if you treat something as being grammatically third person, it can be said in second person settings.

I'm pretty sure this is the argumentative autist though.

>なめるな、この野郎が
Here, I fixed your shit, now stop talking about it

>>148051790
That's not what he did.
>> how long did it take you to become N1
>About three years, most of which I slacked. Yeah. If I were to count only the time I actually spent studying, then it's about a year and a half. なめるな、野郎が。

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Woah, is this the actual source of the phrase or mangakas are memeing as well?

>>148051570
野郎が言うな is incorrect.

>>148051761
Now you're telling me that I didn't say what I said.
I've waited for a hundred fucking posts for you to realise that that comma easily be swapped for a period, but dekinais gonna dekinai. I bet that if I managed to find a video of a native speaker using exactly the same turn of phrase as me you'd still have an excuse as to how that's different. Can't go back now after all the bragging you did, eh?
> grasping at straws
And stop projecting.

>>148051898
>Now you're telling me that I didn't say what I said.
Then what did you say?

>I've waited for a hundred fucking posts for you to realise that that comma easily be swapped for a period
Wow, okay. It actually can't. That's an orthographic error. Commas can be swapped for spaces, not periods.

>>148051797
You're robbing them of a lesson.

>>148051875
everyone is memeing

>>148051833
It works if you treat the 野郎が as a separate statement of frustration instead of directly connecting to なめるな
Would you be happier if he said
舐めてんじゃねえよクソが since it's not command form there? Is your only problem thel 命令形 itself?

>>148051984
There's no lesson to be given by a narcissist that doesn't understand how to read what he wrote.

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>>148051956
> It actually can't. That's an orthographic error.
Start again from N5.

>>148051630
How do you know what my phone is?

>>148051996
>It works if you treat the 野郎が as a separate statement of frustration instead of directly connecting to なめるな
"I'm cleaning in my room" also works if you assume that "cleaning" means "cleaning your room".

The N5 does not believe that "I'm cleaning in my room" is a valid way to write "I'm cleaning my room", however.

>>148052048
it's compromised, my botnet automatically notifies me when someone posts to /a/ from a phone that I've compromised

黙ってくれ

>>148051875
Artist name?

>>148052044
t. filthy JSL

>>148052050
> here's sentence I made up, it's wrong, so the original sentence is wrong too, and they're the same because I said so
You now have at least three different people telling you the obvious. It's kuyasii when you dekinai, innit?

>>148052050
Are you an ESL?

This argument is dumb post hanzi grids

>>148052131
>>148052132
https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/145565819/#145583742

>>148052094
佐々原憂樹

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>>148051895
The veil has been lifted and I have seen through to the actual issue at hand. Thank you.

なめるな、野郎が is incorrect because 野郎 by itself doesn't refer to any one person in particular, and so you're not really clarifying what the subject is by just saying 野郎が.

>>148051797 solves this issue by giving 野郎 a specific referent, and omitting が solves it by making 野郎 no longer the subject. Since 野郎がなめるな would theoretically mean "bastards don't look down on me!" rather than "don't look down on me, you bastard."

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>>148052142
Rate me

>>148052207
> Since 野郎がなめるな would theoretically mean "bastards don't look down on me!" rather than "don't look down on me, you bastard."
I don't think you have any idea what's going on.

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>>148052142

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>>148052173
What has hooking done?
Children, if you mine and hook, you're going to end up like those losers.

>>148052247
he does, he just can't translate the error into english because japanese and english have different grammatical systems

he separately translated the "bastards" part from the "don't look down on me" part because they don't work together in a fluent way in japanese

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>>148052207
>>148052287
I'm fucking cracking at my sides. Dysfluency-kun, you can't possibly be at N1. I'll hardly believe even N3.

>>148052330
>Dysfluency-kun
You mean you?

Fluent people say dysfluent things all the time. Just the other day, and I'm a native speaker of english, I said "I get to go downstairs" because I couldn't find the proper construction to say "it's alright for me to go downstairs at this point I guess".

>>148052247
>>148052330
If you compare 野郎がなめるな to the 死体が動くな in >>148048862 I think you'll see what I mean.

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>>148052387
You haven't a fucking clue as to what you're talking about. I don't know how to react by this point. It's become painfully obvious that we both understand that there is no way you're coming off clean, so you're just digging yourself in deeper. It's just… sad.

>>148052506
that's a completely different person to the person who called you dysfluent, autism-kun

are there restrictions in naming people, or can you make names based on all their kun and on readings?

>>148052387
この野郎がなめるな sounds worse than 野郎がなめるな and both would 100% be interpreted as commands regardless of correctness. Without the 倒置法 though, they both sound wrong to some extent and something like 野郎が舐めてんじゃねえ sounds much better.

>>148052519
It doesn't matter. You outright discarded an example I provided for you to exercise at your N5. I just give up. I thought that sooner or later you'll be forced to admit your mistake or just stop posting, but you've exceeded my worst expectations. I'm off. I don't have anything else to say.

>>148052589
>You outright discarded an example I provided for you to exercise at your N5.
that wasn't me

you're retarded
>>148052583
you're a good guy

野郎が！舐めるな！
なら判るけど。
野郎が舐めるな！
だと、なんでそんな半端に丁寧な言い方すんの？って感じ。女郎は舐めてもいいの？

>>148052583
>Without the 倒置法 though, they both sound wrong to some extent
That's because the sentence is incorrect to begin with. The inversion doesn't save it. The only thing that would save it is making them separate sentences, like 「なめるな。野郎が」 or forcing the noun to be under a genitive as in 「なめるな。この野郎[が]」 (ga is optional). This still might be using tokyo slang, but it stops being wrong.

Keep in mind that nobody ever said that it didn't make sense.

>>148052685
>as in 「なめるな。この野郎[が]」
meant 「なめるな、この野郎[が]」

>>148052685
If your only problem is the punctuation you're being pretty fucking autistic though. Japanese is pretty lax about punctuation, as I'm sure you know. Or at least, anime/manga Japanese is, which is what was being used.

>>148052733
>Japanese is pretty lax about punctuation, as I'm sure you know.
So you're saying it only works if he wrote something different than he actually wrote?

>>148052614
>>148052678
>>148052685
>>148052721
>>148052733
>>148052809
This is really fucking embarrassing.

>>148052733
Adding: I suppose you're right that calling 倒置法 would be incorrect though if you are treating them as separate statements, rather than 野郎 actually attaching to the 舐めるな

>>148052809
You seriously don't see the problem with sperging out about someone using a comma to separate two separate statements in a language that frequently uses commas to separate two separate statements?

>>148052733
behold

野郎がなめるな
it's a 野郎, don't なめる it

野郎が、なめるな

it's a 野郎, but don't なめる it

japanese is not lax about punctuation in this kind of situation

>>148052246
I rate it one hanahira out of muramasa.
Keep going.

>>148052678
分かってくれてありがとう、日本人くん
野郎が言うな　×
萌え豚野郎が言うな　○
ですよね？

>>148052845
>You seriously don't see the problem with sperging out about someone using a comma to separate two separate statements in a language that frequently uses commas to separate two separate statements?
That's not what he did.
>> how long did it take you to become N1
>About three years, most of which I slacked. Yeah. If I were to count only the time I actually spent studying, then it's about a year and a half. なめるな、野郎が。

>150 posts arguing about a phrase from the previous fucking thread
Jesus, I'd even prefer you spergs to keep arguing about writing kanji.

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これで化けの皮を現わすところだ！その影に潜むものはいったい何でしょうか？！
次回！「解決」
>You cannot reply anymore, thread has been archived.

>>148052246
You're not even post-wanikani level dude. motto ganbattekudasai.

わたしをペロペロでなめてもいいよ、おにいちゃん

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whatever back to posting hanzi grids

Where can I find native Japanese people to speak Japanese with?

>>148053070
Go on hello talk
don't bother trying to keep up small talk for a long time, do basic introductions then ask if they would be up to skype.

Basically, I said 「なめるな、野郎が。」, which is fucking impossible to misinterpret, but since dysfluency-kun was mining and hooking so much, he got stuck at N5, making him incapable of comprehending a sentence ending on 「が」 without having to reverse it, no matter how little sense that would make. That he refuses to even consider the possibility that the sentence could possibly work the way it was built shows him for a braggart who tried to jump way above his head. I don't even know what he's trying to do by this point.

>>148053060
Have you turned 2D yet?

>>148053150
>which is fucking impossible to misinterpret
That's right, it is impossible to misinterpret.
>making him incapable of comprehending a sentence ending on 「が」 without having to reverse it
He never said that.

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おにいちゃんにしつもんがあります

爪は伸びるのに

どうして歯は伸びないのですか

>>148053150
Your mistake wasn't about how you used が, it was how you used 野郎.

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>>148053060
How's Dies Irae, senpai?

>>148053199
神様がそう定めたから。

>>148053070
http://www.japan-guide.com/local/?aCAT=2

>>148053231
Above average because voiced protagonist but I didn't like it as much as most other "kamige"

>>148053060
>>148053231
How long have you been studying the language for? Would you consider yourself fluent?

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>tfw small dick

>>148053180
> He never said that.
Have you read the fucking thread? He stubbornly kept insisting that the "real" way the sentence was meant to be built was in reverse. The only reason for that is because he's genuinely clueless about how sentence building works in Japanese and thinks that if a sentence doesn't end in だ or ない, then it ought to be put backwards.
>>148053214
> moving the goalposts

>>148053342
>He stubbornly kept insisting that the "real" way the sentence was meant to be built was in reverse
no, he said that the only correct way to interpret what you said was the same if you inverted it. yet, it obviously has the wrong meaning compared to what you actually meant if you invert it.

your sentence is missing parts, which prevents it from being fluent in the context and place you wrote it. it could be correct, but not there.

>>148053060
憧れています、先輩。

>>148053398
> he said that the only correct way to interpret what you said was the same if you inverted it
Which is what I said. Are you autistic?
> your sentence is missing parts, which prevents it from being fluent
> missing parts = dysfluent
See, this is how I know that you're at N3 at the very best.

>>148053296
>>148053231 here, a bit more than a year.
Really fucking far from fluent, my production is abysmal and I still have to hook VNs.
Can play games and read manga with no dictionary just fine, though.

>>148053328
At least it's bluer than mine.

>>148053199
悔しいね

>>148053503
> I still have to hook VNs
Don't do it, man, don't you see what it does to people?

>>148053484
>Which is what I said. Are you autistic?
no, actually, you didn't say that. you said that he said "the real way the sentence was meant to be built was in reverse". which is not what he said, and not equivalent to "the only correct way to interpret what you said was the same if you inverted it".

>>missing parts = dysfluent
>See, this is how I know that you're at N3 at the very best.

dropped parts and missing parts are different things

dropped only become missing parts when dropping them is a mistake, which was true here. you can't use unqualified nouns in that phrase structure.

>>148053547
Makes them not like you?

>>148053328
>>148053231
>>148053060
What do you guys put in your "Card interval considered strong" box?

>>148053599
2

>>148053547
>don't you see what it does to people?
It took me from zero to playing Persona 5 in a year so I'll probably keep doing it.

>>148053599
Whatever the default was, I didn't change any settings.

>>148053587
> no, actually, you didn't say that. you said that he said "the real way the sentence was meant to be built was in reverse". which is not what he said, and not equivalent to "the only correct way to interpret what you said was the same if you inverted it".
Wow, you actually are autistic.
> which was true here
Refer to >>148051284. She obviously used the same form as I did.

>>148053632
Eh, you're the one who's going to be failing at N5 level.

>>148053632
Getting to a level where you can read anything you want with a dictionary is easy. What's hard is memorizing enough vocab that you can read without a dictionary.

>>148053667
>Wow, you actually are autistic.
when you're arguing with someone you can't exactly reinterpret what they say

you're saying he said you meant to write the thing that's equivalent to the inverted form. he didn't. he said that the inverted form was equivalent to the correct way to read it. these are not the same thing, at all

>She obviously used the same form as I did.
speech doesn't have punctuation so no

and she didn't use the same form in the first place, the constraints of the structure are not violated in what she said like they are in what you said

>>148053703
I'm not gonna do JLPT so that's fine.

>>148053711
I'm not using a dictionary for Persona
>What's hard is memorizing enough vocab that you can read without a dictionary.
That's why I keep using a texthooker to mine

>>148053667
このシスコン野朗が is different from 野朗が because it specifies a certain 野朗. Without that specification, 野朗 doesn't make sense as the subject of the sentence because it sounds like you're talking about all 野朗s in general, not the person who you perceive as having slighted you.

>>148053807
>because it sounds like you're talking about all 野朗s in general, not the person who you perceive as having slighted you.
Maybe if you're a beginner.

Watching anime while not being able to understand everything is such a hollow experience. I don't get how people can do it for enjoyment, without the intent to put focused studies to practice and transform that book knowledge into practical knowledge. By the time I finish two episodes in a row, my attention span is gone, and I'm bored as shit.

>>148053807
He's been arguing this with a carousel of people who disagree with him for over three hours. I think he feels worse than "slighted"

>>148053807
it's because 野朗 doesn't act as a pronoun in that context

that construction only works with pronouns, like お前, hence why お前 works

the use of that construction with nouns is what linguists call "underdefined"; the "internal grammar" of native japanese people does not treat it with consistency, and will notice that it sounds funny, and is open to have dialectal or slang meanings.

>>148053889
>that construction only works with pronouns
or qualified nouns, that basically make it obvious what you're talking about, like if it were この野郎. sorry, I oversimplified the constraint.

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>女房
I'm going to start using this instead of 嫁

>>148053917
Japanese as a language is heavily based on context. It is obvious in context that 野郎 is not 野郎s in general. It is common to say クソが with no この, because it is obvious who the クソ is

>>148053889
You can also do it with adjectival nouns like バカが, which makes obvious that you're referring to the second person.

But 野朗 is not an adjectival noun.

>>148053992
>朗
See >>148053982
クソ is not a 形容動詞 either

>>148053719
> he said that the inverted form was equivalent to the correct way to read it.
Fucking hell, it took you three times to phrase that in a way I can understand.
Yes, yes, you're right. That doesn't change my meaning, though: he's obviously clueless if he thinks that he can reverse that sentence like he did without changing its meaning.
> the constraints of the structure are not violated in what she said like they are in what you said
See, that you need me to have fleshed the sentence out as much as possible for you to understand it shows that you aren't equipped to be the judge here.
>>148053789
> I'm not gonna do JLPT so that's fine.
I was talking about your level of comprehension. It's not about exams, it's about hooking not preparing you to actually comprehend the language outside of interacting with a dictionary.
>>148053807
> このシスコン野朗が is different from 野朗が because it specifies a certain 野朗.
And another one. I bet it took you forever to understand that you aren't supposed to be inserting 「私」 everywhere.
…Come to think of it, you all are probably ENLs who have trouble comprehending the simple fact that sentences in Japanese aren't required to be as filled out as in English. That would explain everything.
>>148053889
>>148053917
And this one here repeats the same mistake. Shit, it's been right before my eyes. Eureka! One more reason why ENLs should never be allowed a fucking word before others.

>>148053982
that's because the construction is correct with クソ and not 野郎

the construction is not valid with 野郎 because 野郎 is not the same as クソ

>>148054035
>>朗
>See >>148053982
I'm just copy pasting what someone else put down.

>>148054037
>Yes, yes, you're right. That doesn't change my meaning, though: he's obviously clueless if he thinks that he can reverse that sentence like he did without changing its meaning.
It's obvious what you meant to say. Nobody said that. His whole argument is that inverting it changes the meaning, but inverting it is equivalent to the right way to read it, which means it's dysfluent.

>>148054037
> One more reason why ENLs should never be allowed a fucking word before others.

Rude I'm not gonna bother defending you anymore.

When did you stop trying to translate things to English in your head?

I remember when this finally clicked for me while I was learning English, but it seems that I am not yet there with Japanese.

>>148054037
>> このシスコン野朗が is different from 野朗が because it specifies a certain 野朗.
>And another one.
They're talking about the structure similar to バカが to call someone an idiot, not the sentence inversion like one.

>>148054037
>Fucking hell, it took you three times to phrase that in a way I can understand.
well it wasn't hard to understand in the first place so idk man

i think you were just set on a particular interpretation of his argument because you got upset. shit happens.

>>148048365
I never go in these threads because I just started learning, just finished learning hiragana and katakana (I know like 5 kanji), and I barely know any words. I just end up feeling like a dipshit because everyone knows more than me and I feel stupid.

>>148054181
Congrats. Keep studying.

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>>148053538
もしも歯が伸びたのなら

おしゃれの幅が増えたんじゃないないかな

>>148054128
Depends. When its easy grammar and words I'm familiar with, I read it normally.
But once more advanced grammar comes up or multiple words I don't know come up I end up thinking in English again.

>>148053060
>300 more kanji then me
Fuck, now I feel trash

>>148054181
Right better get to work then. The journey of a thousand kanji starts with whatever you do to begin.

>>148053966
世話女房　is the cutest tbqh.

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Seeing all these grids makes me wanna up my new cards even though I hate anki

In English, you can drop articles in many places, such as headlines. For example, "Jockey Breaks Cup Fighting Mayor Of City" is (nonsensical) grammatically valid english, with a correct interpretation. However, you cannot drop articles eveywhere. For example, "Let's go to store" means something different than "Let's go to the store", because the removal of the article causes different grammatical structures to collide and a new one wins out. The meaning of the statement "Let's go to store" is obvious in any context it would appear in, but it's still clearly dysfluent.

Where get raw mangas?

>>148054037
>it's about hooking not preparing you to actually comprehend the language outside of interacting with a dictionary
And what does, skipping words? Guessing everything? Wrapping yourself in a bubble of graded readers hoping it flips the flunet switch in your brain? Memorizing the entire dictionary before you start interacting with the language?

>>148054326
Check the OP, go to the CoR, click on tabs.

>>148054219
Good luck it takes a long time to accumulate kanji past 3k unless you specifically aim to read kanji spam hipster shit

>>148054206
「なめるな、野郎が」
これに違和感ある？

>>148054318
>top scoring kanji
>僕
Hi Bjorn.

>>148054365

That doesn't have every manga.

>>148054371
add the period for good measure
「なめるな、野郎が。」

>>148054116
Oh, come on, you know that English is a twisted monstrosity of a language, you must accept that fact sooner or later.
>>148054131
I know.
>>148054164
Eh, whatever, one way or another, he obviously didn't understand how that sentence was supposed to work.
>>148054181
> everyone knows more than me
Given how there are people in this very thread who came off with net negative in understanding Japanese after studying it, you've got it better than some.

>>148054128
I never did, I watched anime for like 10 years before I started to actively learn and every word is voiced by a cute anime girl in my head CV: 斎藤千和

>>148054326
CoR, nyaa, AnimeBytes

>>148054367
Dont feel too bad since 3.1k is pretty high then

>>148054181
>I never go in these threads
Keep it that way if you want to learn.

>>148054397
that's your #1 source

otherwise you have to use normal piracy channels like nyaa and perfect dark

>>148054404
>Eh, whatever, one way or another, he obviously didn't understand how that sentence was supposed to work.
i mean it's basically impossible to misunderstand a sentence that contains なめるな and 野郎

plus your whole defense is based on it being two sentences so don't slip up

>>148054342
Watching EOPs make rookie mistakes and generalise them never gets old.

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>>148054371
ちょっといいまわしは古いかんじだよ

>>148054465
> plus your whole defense is based on it being two sentences so don't slip up
Fuck you, you know what I'm talking about.

>>148054535
why are you swearing at me i'm giving you advice

>>148054181
Go away blogger trash.

>>148054489
Oh man you're so cool.
Can you answer the question, though?
What's the alternative for reading with a dictionary?

ご注文は操り人形ですか

What torrent site do you use for dramas?

今日の荒らし普通よりくだらないなぁ

>>148054712
「あなた」をひとつあげるから

だいじにしてね

>>148054557
Uh huh.
>>148054608
All right, I'll spell it out for you: at some point in the process of learning a language you find yourself to be comfortable enough using it that you stop needing dictionaries. I'm not talking about not translating in your head — you should have passed that stage by the time I'm talking about — but stopping needing any kind of translations entirely, so that when you see a new word, you can come to find its meaning without having to translate it. Hooking makes you reach that point much later than you would have if you studied the proper way.
Ah, and you're probably going to latch on this, but I mean exclusively inter-language dictionaries. Japanese to Japanese is fair game.

How many words do you know /djt/?

I'm just past the 4k mark in anki right now

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>>148054801
大切にします

>>148054949
Hello. How would I translate this post into english? "Above all else?" "The greatest pleasure?"

>>148054829
i texthook to use a J-J dictionary more easily though

>>148054829
Not really. The use of anki matters far more than whether or not you use a text hooker, as long as you have self control and don't hover over words you know.

>>148054829
>Hooking makes you reach that point much later than you would have if you studied the proper way.
You're saying this based on what? And what is the proper way?
>Japanese to Japanese is fair game.
I can switch to J-J in my text hook setup.

I'm going to use my last contribution to this horrible discussion to say that I went through every single Google search result for "野郎が" in quotation marks and the only one I could find that did not have some kind of qualifier before 野郎, besides this thread, was:
http://jumpmatome2ch.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-6326.html
which appears to be using the word in a general sense and not to refer to one specific person.

>>148055100
not every single one, but a lot of pages of them
sorry

>>148055024
Okay, then. Knowing the kanji without needing to hook is still the better option.
>>148055043
> anki
You'd spend just as much time just sitting down and writing those kanji, and you'd retain more, too.
>>148055049
> You're saying this based on what?
My ability to understand that 「なめるな、野郎が。」 is a perfectly fine way to build a sentence.
> I can switch to J-J in my text hook setup.
You didn't up until now, did you, now?
>>148055100
> some kind of qualifier before 野郎
I spot an EOP. Whether the qualifier is there or not is completely irrelevant. That's literally N5 level. The sentence might as well have been 「なめるな、この野郎が。」 with no change in meaning or grammatical properties.

>>148055268
>Okay, then. Knowing the kanji without needing to hook is still the better option.
I know the kanji. I still need to hook. Kanji don't teach you japanese.

>>148055268
>My ability to understand that 「なめるな、野郎が。」 is a perfectly fine way to build a sentence.
I see. I'll keep using that text hooker, thank you very much for your opinions.

>>148055268
>You'd spend just as much time just sitting down and writing those kanji, and you'd retain more, too.
False.

>>148055268
>I spot an EOP. Whether the qualifier is there or not is completely irrelevant.
the qualifier prevents the noun from being interpreted as a tag, that's pretty relevant

>>148054505
そのいいまわしの意味は何？

>>148055306
> Kanji don't teach you japanese.
Kanji teach you kanji. If you actually know the kanji, you can just type them out (unless hooking is simply more mechanically convenient, eh).
>>148055310
If there is a textbook on Dunning-Kruger effect, this should go right in as a stellar example.
>>148055337
False yer mum.
>>148055346
A search engine's technical troubles isn't really my concern, now, is it?

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>>148054923
>tfw you only know 500 words after half a year of studying

>>148055440
>Kanji teach you kanji. If you actually know the kanji, you can just type them out (unless hooking is simply more mechanically convenient, eh).
Hooking is a hell of a lot more mechanically convenient. I went through the common route of a VN by typing up kanji and using sljfaq handwriting search for the handful I ran into that are outside the joyo, and it was very inefficient.

>>148055479
You know I was referring to people who can't type the kanji down for not knowing their readings.

>>148055551
That wasn't obvious.

>>148055579
You can't be serious.

>>148055624
I'm serious, it really wasn't obvious.

>>148055676
Eh, that's your problem.
>>148055697
「さきやから」

>>148055697
パイセン

>>148055440
>If there is a textbook on Dunning-Kruger effect, this should go right in as a stellar example.
I don't see any dunning-kruger anything happening in here, both mine and yours Japanese proficiency have nothing to do with it.
I asked for a convincing argument against hooking and didn't get one.
"I didn't use it and I'm smarter than you" doesn't say anything.

>>148055697
fampai

>>148055551
It's more mechanically convenient even if you know them.

>>148055759
> I asked for a convincing argument against hooking and didn't get one.
Refer to >>148055624.

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>>148055697
金魚の糞

>>148055396
このヤロー！なめるんじゃねえってばよ！

Hooking is chill as long as you have self restraint and use anki for hard to read words

source: >>148053060

>>148055835
100% serious, I thought that maybe this annoying asshole that shit up half the thread holds some nugget of wisdom the rest of DJT doesn't know about and just has a personality problem, so I was ready to listen, but "texthooker is bad because I told you so" is not very convincing.
You also didn't elaborate what's exactly is "the right way".

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>>148048365
I finished proofreading all of the example sentences and descriptions in the DoJG deck, fixing a few hundred typos. (For the formation tables, I only thoroughly proofread the Advanced volume.) I also added data provided by another anon (transcribed notes, parts of speech and related terms) and added missing note images.

The revised deck is here: http://dojgdeck.neocities.org/

Typos are listed here for the anon maintaining the other index: http://pastebin.com/WkP8Cckk

I updated my index with the corrections and added some JavaScript features at the top: http://core6000.neocities.org/dojg/

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>mfw 生 has like 50 billion readings

>>148056460
>tfw i don't care because i learn readings from words and not individual kanji

>>148056523
I shit in your mouth.

>>148056283

I disregarded him as a troll a long time ago.

If he were serious (not that this would automatically mean that he's not a fucking dumbass, mind you), he would have been very focused on his alternative plan to mining, and why it works better. Instead, he's basically dodged questions about his methodology, instead focusing on HOW STUPID PEOPLE MUST BE TO THINK THAT ANYTHING INVOLVING A TEXTHOOKER CAN HELP THEM LEARN JAPANESE LOL. He's also fucking up on basic shit, such as seeming to believe that [kanji a] + [kanji b] = [word ab], with no further need for any kind of dictionary, which is a mistake the only a complete beginner would make. The whole thing wreaks of baiting.

Either way, even if he is just a stubborn autist who can't stand the fact that his assumptions are betraying him, bothering with him any further is obviously pretty useless. Anyone who takes a passing glance at this argument can see who the dumbass is.

>>148056283
I already explained it. Long story short, focusing on kanji first is the difference between learning 30k words one by one and learning 30k words by studying 2k kanji (no, I'm not implying that knowing the kanji in a word makes you automatically understand the word, fuck off with that — but it definitely helps). It's slower in the beginning, yes, but it allows for much swifter learning and greatly helps retention.

>>148056679
Your mouth is already full of shit.

>>148056460
Only four are commonly used, though, with other readings heavily depending on context.
>>148056523
So you remember 生, 生きる, and 生む as different words that don't help you with understanding the other two, then? That's certainly efficient.

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>from the DBS thread
>孫君

Someone please explain

Fill more shit in your mouth and ass

>>148057035
Explain what? Why she calls him Mago-kun?

>>148056804
Most people reading VNs have already finished 2k and therefore already can recognize 1.5k kanji or so.

So yeah you're a fucking idiot.

>>148057191
That's why you keep hooking, right?
> i-it doesn't count if I keep running for the dictionary every other page, I-I know those kanji!

>>148057005
>So you remember 生, 生きる, and 生む as different words that don't help you with understanding the other two, then? That's certainly efficient.
Not quite. Your brain makes those connections automatically. That's literally what brains do best.

>entire thread has been nothing but autistic bickering
where's based jamal when you need him?

>>148056804
I studied 2k kanji before I started hooking and mining, I guess it made learning easier but don't see how that makes hooking and SRS any less convenient.

>>148057262
http://vocaroo.com/?upload

>>148057299
So you're still learning kanji, only passively and indirectly. That's definitely very efficient. Fuck me for thinking that one could learn kanji by studying kanji.

>>148057262
Who are you quoting?

>>148057326
In the end, there's only one thing that matters and that's putting in the hours.

>>148057326
> I studied 2k kanji before I started hooking and mining
So you did do it the proper way in the end. Wow. You sure showed me that my method is inefficient and you're just fine without it.
>>148057354
Yer mum.

>>148057180
Who's Mago-ku-. . .wait. . .

>孫
>son
>君
>kun

Fuck.

Also, why does bulma add that だって～ to the sentence? I'm getting "The weird one is son-kun. . .as far as "

>>148057346
Wow where did you learn to user sarcasm like that, it looks so good on you.

It is in fact efficient if your goal is to learn Japanese. Japanese primarily consists of words, and focusing your efforts on memorizing those words is a better usage of your time.

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おにいちゃんおなかすいた

なっとうごはん

たべたいな

>>148057447
Lel. 「孫」 only reads as "son" (「そん」, not the English word), it means "grandchild". Don't ask me why she's calling him grandchild.
> why does bulma add that だって～ to the sentence?
Her meaning is "you must have done at least [thing], right?", assuming that Vegeta's not completely without any experience.
>>148057618
You have no idea how Japanese actually works.

>living in Japan for 12 years
>still can't read basic kanji
How is that possible!?

>>148057718
> "you must have done at least [thing], right?"
Wow, my English is so good and masterful, I have a lot of eloquence. At least it's not grammatically incorrect.

>>148057387
>You sure showed me
I wasn't set on showing you anything.
You were arguing that texthooker and anki gonna fuck a guy up so I was interested where did you get that idea and what are alternatives.
What I see is you dismissing convenient tools for no real reason.

>>148057718
>Don't ask me why she's calling him grandchild.
His fucking name is 孫悟空

how do you gays feel about genki?

>>148057718
>You have no idea how Japanese actually works.
lol
調子に乗るなよクソジャリ

>>148057718
>You have no idea how Japanese actually works.
あなたに言われたくないわ

His name is Son Goku.

>Her meaning is "you must have done at least [thing], right?", assuming that Vegeta's not completely without any experience.
What the fuck are you even on about here

おかしいのは孫君だって～
"The weird one is Son-kun" is what it means. The って indicates certainty/insistence.

>>148057800
It isn't, unless you have a particularly bad case of dyslexia.
>>148057825
I was talking about hookers and anki can't replace studying kanji. If you actually did that, then by all means, do whatever the fuck you want, you're the man.

File: [Zero-Raws] Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou - 02 (BD 1920x1080 x264 FLAC).mkv_snapshot_12.15_[2016.10.03_13.11.15].jpg (127KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 1920x1080px

>>148057866
Ah. Shit. Son Goku. Right. I'm hitting my head on the wall right now. I really am unfamiliar with both the franchise and JttE.

>>148057962
> What the fuck are you even on about here
Read further. Yes, I looked at the wrong sentence, but the meaning's correct.

>>148054987
”I will take good care of it."

>>148057969
She knows basic maybe N4 level kanji but that's what she gets for working only in Japan.

>>148058083
>Read further. Yes, I looked at the wrong sentence, but the meaning's correct.
There's only one だって though.

>>148058175
> that's what she gets for working only in Japan
What? Shouldn't it be the opposite?
>>148058194
No, I meant the bubble. Yes, I did not what I was asked to do.

File: 1456608487096.jpg (82KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

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>Can understand anime and youtubers easy
>Nico streamers only like 30%-50%
This is real n1 material!

>>148058020
>JttE
Getting the name right would be a good start. It's "Journey to the West," anon.

>>148058265
It's an English car insurance company. Mostly foreign people she's working with but the customers are Japanese, which she was assigned to talk to those customers.

I know that っ mean double consonant but why does sakamoto from strike witches laugh as

はっはっはっ？

Also what does

はーっ　mean?

sorry for the stupid question

>>148059038
>はっはっはっ？
hah, hah, hah.

>>148059038
hahhahhah

File: Strike Witches - 10 (BD 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_05.08_[2016.10.03_17.52.24].jpg (98KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

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>>148059038
I'm watching this show now, why is pic related so shit?

just now 今終わったよ
right now いまやってるよ or これからやるよ

あってる？

>garbage thread with stupid arguments
>look up
>sakura in OP
really makes you think

>>148059389
>just now
以前 ~ 先程 ~ just now ~ 今

>right now
今
今きっかり

File: 1474769477755.jpg (132KB, 795x1036px) Image search: [Google]

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>>148050312
>tfw ankidrone and don't have that issue anymore

>>148059557
I hope you're not implying what you're probably implying.
ill hook u in the gabber m8

>>148059557
Delete this.

File: shoot.png (23KB, 1260x390px) Image search: [Google]

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>>148059389

>からかいがいがあるからつい
What is the がい after からかい? Surely if the author didn't put Kanji it's common enough for people to know. I first thought it was a typo, but...
我意？

>>148059739
>>148059572

あー、ホントにその瞬間の事か。
ありがとう

>>148059605
reveal your secrets, she-devil

>>148059785
カラか以外があるカラつい

>>148059863
No from context it's clearly からかい. X just bullied Y and said >>148059785.

>>148059898
I was merely pretending to be a fool

>>148059848
No shortcut do your reps.

>>148059785
I think it's からかい甲斐がある.

>>148060026
Yeah I just googled it and it's that. Thanks.

>>148060026
>>148060042
But still confused since it's clearly written がいがある. Well probably a typo.

Actually 甲斐 is either かい or がい so I suppose both work and がい is most likely easier to pronounce than かい right after からかい so it's probably that.
https://www.google.co.jp/#q=%22%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%81%8B%E3%81%84%E3%81%8C%E3%81%84%E3%81%8C%E3%81%82%E3%82%8B%22 gives quite a bit of results too.

I'll stop spamming now.

>>148060156
it is がい as a suffix

>>148060203
Oh yeah, right.

>>148060091
No. People omit kanji all the time. Especially for "grammar words" like that, てき、ほう、などなど.

>>148060511
I meant that 甲斐がある is read as かいがある when rikai'd and not がいがある, it had nothing to do with omitting Kanji.

Hey /djt/, I haven't visited the threads in quite a while, what happened to the DJT core 6k project?

>>148060921
The image project? That died in like three threads after being conceptualized.

>>148060921
>>148060934
What was it about?

>>148061012
putting anime/manga style images on as many words as possible

>>148061048
even from hentai?

>>148060934
wat
Has DJT made anything in the meantime?

/a/nons I got into a problem with Anki.
Yesterday when I tried moving my Ankidroid folder from phone memory to SD card , the moving took so long so I had to hit cancel. Then to my horror, I found out that my decks had vanished. I tried moved it back to phone memory but it was to no avail. I had to resort to backup but then my decks got merged into one deck and the schedule is all messed now. For example a lot of cards which I had already learned are now marked as unseen and I have to relearn them. Could anyone help me plz?

>>148061365
someone ripped KKLC

>>148061376
>Could anyone help me plz?
Yeah, just download your daily backup from ankiweb. The free backup service that automatically integrates into anki. That you have to pretty much try to avoid using.

I just kinda wish I could ban Disfluency-kun for taking up an entire thread with his uncalled-for extreme autism

Just use 野郎 as a vocative and say「なめるな、野郎」, you fucking autistic piece of shit

>>148062101
that's what he said in the first place

>>148062101
Did you read any of the rest of the thread? The guy who posted 野郎 in the first place is fucking retarded.