Shinichiro Wantanabe confirms the anime industry is declining

>>147088937
>this thread again
>"A lot of animation is extremely 'samey"
>anime was almost nothing but science-fiction robots and beautiful little girls, and it just gets boring after a while.
>Animation based on popular comic books and giant robots and big-eyed girls with shamefully skimpy costumes will continue to fill the screen."
-Kon, 1999

>I don’t think there’s any bright future. That’s because the people who are producing it are not doing well.
>The people who make it, and the people who want it, they’re always wanting the same things. They’ve been making only similar things for the past ten years, with no sense of urgency.
-Anno, 1996

>Panda Kopanda was made, well, how many years ago was it, when Japanese TV animation was at its lowest. If you look at the history of TV animation, there are many such "lowest" times. It's still at a low even now.
-Miyazaki, 1995 (Panda Kopanda was made in 1972)

> I frankly despise the truncated word "anime" because to me it only symbolizes the current desolation of our industry.
-Miyazaki, 1988

>The general theme in currently popular shows seems to be that the protagonist jumps on a giant machine he couldn’t possible have created on his own, battles the enemy in it, and then boasts about winning. I frankly hate these kind of shows.
-Miyazaki, 1979

>The hallmark of Japanese animation became works with a great deal of pretension, where vaporous and extremely deformed characters inhabited distorted and flashily colorized worlds.
-Miyazaki, 1979, talking about the 60s to early 70s

>>147089093
Why does Miyazaki have some sort of complex about anime?

He seems so critical of it, yet produces great works, yet still remains critical of the fact that others don't follow his "ambitious" trail that the blazes.

Does he just wish for a world that can never exist?

We already knew that, Watanabe. Don't rub the salt and broken glass in.

>>147090368
He knows how potentially beautiful and stunning animation can be, how free a medium it is for story-telling, and despises that the medium is not being used to its full potential.

>>147090368
>Why does Miyazaki have some sort of complex about anime?

Wouldn't you want the thing you pour so much passion into to be wonderful and diverse instead of the same shit people keep buying? And the best part is, the stuff he made did very well, so you can't even say he's wrong.

>>147088937
there's a reason academics don't really put much weight on what artists and authors have to say.

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>>147089093
>The people who make it, and the people who want it, they’re always wanting the same things.
Could it possibly be, maybe, that this is perhaps the ideal situation? No, impossible.

>>147089093
Miyazaki hates mecha? What a fag.

>>147090368
My impression is that he'd really rather have been a Western or Russian animator. He loves foreign animation, and he loves the Disney-inspired model/approach that Toei used to use before Tezuka, but unfortunately for him that model was completely impractical for TV anime and died out fast once Tezuka showed up and everyone started focusing on limited animation. He and Takahata were more or less the only really major TV anime directors before 1980 who weren't trained at Mushi Pro under Tezuka's philosophy, so they were the stylistic outsiders, and then they went and segregated themselves off in their own private movie studio while the stuff they (or at least Miyazaki) hated continued to dominate the industry up to the present day.

>>147090603
Like I said, his approach is not really feasible as an industry-wide TV model. It lost out in the 60s because it was objectively inferior on that front - it can be extremely successful in small doses, but it's not a large-scale model. There's a reason TV animation didn't take off until Tezuka came along.

>>147090638
Because academics never even got to become has-beens and get paid jack shit too.

>>147089093
>waaaaah why can't everyone make shows that line up with my standards
Because you're a narcissist, Miyazaki.

>>147090510
>>147090603

not really. all artists have to make a place for their work by disparaging what others in their medium do, regardless of quality. miyazaki is no exception. pretentious fucks have been decrying the debasement of X for millennia.

>>147090705
>He loves foreign animation, and he loves the Disney-inspired model/approach that Toei used to use before Tezuka, but unfortunately for him that model was completely impractical for TV anime and died out fast once Tezuka showed up and everyone started focusing on limited animation.

The lack of budget wasn't Tezuka's fault, it was because producers at the time never saw animation outside of big movies as anything other than a cheap advertisement. The fact that Tezuka was able to make a functional TV series out of his shit budget is a testament to his genius. If it weren't for him Japanese animation would have never took off the ground and the Japanese the people at Toei like Miyazaki would have kept on making poor Disney imitations that tanked at the box office.

>>147090881
Shut the fuck up Cimabue, Giotto was objectively better.

>>147090956
I absolutely agree with you, that's why I said there's a reason TV anime didn't take off before that.

>>147088937
Space Dandy S2 when?

>back in the 70s and 80s, anime was designed solely to sell toys
>then they discovered the otaku market: a niche thirsting for "DEEP COMPLEX ANIMES" who would buy those, and they began to enjoy doing that instead of just churning out a handful of children's cartoons about giant robots/super sentais made to advertise toys and paid for by toy companies

>>147090645
Pretty much this. This "decline" is just elitist butthurt, nothing more.

>>147088937
>That has been the issue since around the millennium. Around that time, I myself had a lot of experimental or adventurous titles that I pitched and pretty much all of them went on hiatus. Basically when I tossed the pitch to companies, the first question back would be, 'so, where’s the pretty girl?'"
> since around the millennium
But Watanabe's only projects before the turn of the millennium were Macross Plus and Bebop. He didn't create Macross Plus - Kawamori did and hired Watanabe to direct it - so that's irrelevant here since he's talking about ideas he comes up with. And Bebop almost didn't get finished because the Bandai division initially funding it withdrew support midway through when it became apparent it wouldn't sell spaceship toys to kids like they wanted. And then the first run had to be aborted partway through because it was a drastically censored executive-meddling cut that no one liked.

So "since around the turn of the millennium" in this context really means "literally my entire career." For Watanabe's entire career, starting with the very first idea that he ever turned into an anime, he has had trouble convincing companies to support him because those ideas haven't been commercial enough for them. So he has literally no experience of a time when you could propose unusual ideas without meeting resistance, but he's sure that things must have been like that back in the 70s before his time, he just knows it.

tl;dr Watanabe's another retarded nostalgiafag, get over it.

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M.D.GEIST
"M.D." STANDS FOR "MOST DANGEROUS." THAT'S RIGHT, AS DANGEROUS AS ANYTHING CAN BE!!
A MAN WAS BORN OUT OF A BATTLE.
His fighting capacity, his alone, corresponds to that of an army. That is why people call him "M.D." THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN.

>>147091593
You're leaving out an important part of his character. He's an M.D.S. which is to say, he's the most dangerous soldier. He's just a soldier.

Much more interesting than the rantings of a man who wishes he was Disney.

If you actually enjoy good anime hopefully you've figured out by now that there's a pattern in niche media where outsiders with creative ideas find place to make cool stuff because the the bar for entry is lower in terms of funding and corporate oversight. Doesn't matter if it's pulp novels, record labels, anime or comics/manga.

He's not saying all anime produced under the modern model is bad (his "adventurous" anime might be total shit after all) but he's saying that it's harder to take creative risks.

>Meanwhile, it's time for the fiftieth rehash of a popular manga to be turned into an anime

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>>147090685

I think he hates how unrealistic mecha pilots are portrayed, not mechas themselves. Miyazaki likes mechs if you care to look into his works.

>>147090510
Oh no, other artists aren't in the position to get 3,000,000,000 yen budgets like I do. And if he truly respected animation he would let animators individuality show.

>>147091825
What he hates isn't the lack of realism, he just has a pretty autistic hang-up about the fact that the MCs are given a mech and win with its power. This is the full paragraph:
> In Japan today, animated TV shows filled with all kinds of fancy, robotlike, mechanical creations are all the rage. I have certainly drawn lots of mecha, or mechanical things, myself. but the general theme in currently popular shows seems to be that the protagonist jumps on a giant machine he couldn’t possible have created on his own, battles the enemy in it, and then boasts about winning. I frankly hate these kind of shows. I don’t care what types of robots are featured. For me, in a truly successful mecha show the protagonist should struggle to build his own machine, he should fix it when it breaks down, and he should have to operate it himself.

>>147091954
This seals the deal. The old man is literally autistic.

>>147088937
I agree with him and the:
>"where's the pretty girl?"
thing is pretty worrysome.
Still Space Dandy was shit, CB is highly overrated and Samurai Champloo has many shit episodes.

>>147091954

Well I still wasn't wrong, he doesn't hate mechs per-se.

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>>147092222
>Space Dandy was shit

I wish I could hate you to death.

>>147088937
I knew it, moe is killing anime

>>147092368
It's not moe. That's fine in a diverse environment. The problem is it's the only thing selling so producers are only funding those projects.

The problem is that the average nip isn't going out and buying dvd's and figures.

>>147088937
>the audience must adjust to what i want, not the other way around!

>>147089093
So, in conclusion, anime was never good.

>>147092469

That's not what he said though.

>>147092411 got it right.

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>>147092428
>penn gillette meme

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>It's another Grandpa's nostalgia goggles thread.

I always see the fact stated that :"home video sales are declining".

If that's the case, why not mature your medium into realms that are going to make money as society moves towards the future?

Some studios are embracing streaming, but it's incredibly non-lucrative. They need to take hold of that medium and turn it into something sustainable.

>>147090368
He wants anime to be used as a vehicle for one's personal love of animation and/or to tell stories that have positive effects on people or make them think.
But most stuff is just big boobed woman doing absolutely mindless things and telling pathetic stories with the goal of people buying their big boobed woman merch.

>>147092411
>>147092411
>The problem is it's the only thing selling
The five top-selling TV anime this year so far have been KonoSuba, Macross, Re:Zero, Joker Game, and JoJo. None of those are CGDCT, and two don't even have female characters in the main cast.

>>147092591
I love the fact that no one in the industry gives a fuck about his wishes and we can continue to get nice titties in anime. Tell grandpa to fuck off already

>>147092552

You will be old one day too, and you will nostalgia over your moe shit.

>>147092622
>cute girls
>cute girls
>cute girls
>you got me
>fujobait

I like cute girls doing cute things shows but damn there's like 20 of those shows every season. It gets tiring.

>>147092591
As you could have seen if you'd read the various Miyazaki quotes in this thread, he has far more issues than just that, right down to the way robots are operated. The guy was just born unhappy.

>>147092693
>moe girls and comedy
>moe girls and mecha
>I don't know because I didn't watch this one
>no moe
>no moe
Fujobait isn't moe (at least not inherently, and certainly not in JoJo's case).

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>>147092622
>Joker Game was in the top 5 selling

THANK YOU BASED PRODUCTION I.G

>>147092694
>like 20 of those shows every season
There are literally two this season. And there are ~40 shows total. Go abck to /v/ and stop shitposting about a medium you don't watch.

>>147092622

What about One Piece, DBS and .. Toriko it was?

Aren't these the "big three" or something.

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>>147092819

>>147092819

We just pretend those don't exist or else it'd be unfair.

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>>147092819

>>147092882
This. Toriko is literally the best-selling anime of all time, it'd be silly to compare any other ongoing anime to it.

>>147092794
I'll admit I was exaggerating, but come on, there are definitely more than 2. Generic moe and harem shows dominate every season.

>>147091235
he's worked in studios since like the 80s or 90s

and he's not complaining, he's stating a fact, that it's harder to get something made unless it appeals to certain demographics because there's less monetization.

>>147092844
>>147092894
Stop posting smugs and just answer the anon's question.

>>147092938
So who is at fault?

A: The public for not caring about his shit?

B: Watanabe, for making irrelevant shit that no one wants to see?

If he really is complaining about not being able to produce shit that he likes, he should crowdfund a project. Why should a studio bear the risk of supporting his work when their is little profit to be made?

It is simple supply and demand at the end of the day. There is no demand for what he is peddling, so he has to blame everyone else for his marketability shortcomings.

>>147092938
>>147092938
>he's worked in studios since like the 80s or 90s
Yes, but he's talking about launching his own ideas/projects, and he didn't do that until Bebop. He's drawing on his own experience and saying "since the turn of the millennium" like there was some shift, but he doesn't have any experience turning his ideas into anime before that.

>>147092622
This is pretty funny
>Cute girls doing comedic stuff
>Mecha stuff with a focus on the cute girls, but is also a long running franchise
>Novel adaptations where merch has focused on two girls
>Military-suspense
>Adaptation of a very old, fan-favorite series
It actually hits all the bases well for what most popular anime are

>>147092936
>there are definitely more than 2.
Nope. New Game and Amanchu. Plus Love Live if you count idols as CGDCT.

>Generic moe and harem shows dominate every season.
Harems aren't CGDCT, but again, no. The only harems this season are Masou Gakuen HxH, and Ange Vierge as a yuri harem. So CGDCT and Harems together make up at most ~12% of the season.

>>147093169
>Cute girls doing comedic stuff
What? Did you even lurk /a/ while Konosuba was airing, let alone watch it? It's not CGDCT at all, it's a parody of isekai harems.

>>147088937
that's probably his opinion. That guy needs to be more diverse and sell shit to fund art. Whatever happened to flexibility and variety? It's like he's blaming the progression of the arts on financial statistics when he simply just has to work on a piece. Worry about the ratings later. Art is art, don't sacrifice it for ratings.

That is a tough thing, considering law and all, but the reality is, not everyone is really familiar with prospects beyond the red tape and so forth. It is a tough industry to sell in the first place really.

>>147089093
Ignore Miyazaki, he only liked kidshit anime

>>147093317
Kiddie shit anime is better than otaku-pandering shit though.

>>147088937
>Shinichiro Watanabe confirms that the MoeBump after the financial crisis was real and not just in the imagination of "normalfag" animegoers.

Based Shinichiro

>>147093317
He hates Tezuka and Disney though.

>>147092662
People have been complaining about "moe" since the 80s, nothings changed and nothing will change.

>>147093360
Eh I think they're about as bad. I can't watch either.

>>147093373

Source?

>>147088937
>I'm butthurt that no one liked Stoner Dandy or Zankyou no Terror.

That's all what I'm getting from this.

>people still pretend bebop was good

>>147093373
He definitely doesn't hate Tezuka - he's said he was annoyed at himself for how much Tezuka influenced him, but he still acknowledged him and was influenced by him nonetheless - and I doubt he hates old Disney, either, though he isn't a fan of a lot of the rotoscoping they did for their humans.

>>147093379

And? you will still get old one day and have nostalgia over your moe shit.

Unless, of course, you die earlier.

>>147093379
It increased from 2008-2013 before falling off again.

>>147090956
It's also why there's not much of a point in complaining about Tezuka's impact on TV anime. Tezuka's movies (the few he managed to do) weren't at all like his TV stuff and some of them even went experimental at times.

>>147093430
ZnT is nothing like Bebop though. Also if they hadn't made the mains moralfags it would've been far more controversial and thus gotten more viewers

Joker game sold almost 10k and it was dogshit. I don't see whats stopping wannabe from releasing a drama with a male cast and a dull color palette

>>147093373
http://nishikataeiga.blogspot.com/2011/05/hayao-miyazakis-taste-in-animation.html

He shits on a bunch of other famous names like Fleischer too.

>>147093548
Meant for >>147093417 >>147093445

>I found myself disgusted by the cheap pessimism of works like [Mermaid] or [The Drop], which showed a drop of water falling on a thirsty man adrift at sea. I felt that this pessimism was qualitatively different from the pessimism Tezuka used to have in the odl days, as in the early days of [Astro Boy], for example – but it also could have been that in the early days I felt great tragedy and trembled with excitement at Tezuka’s cheap pessimism precisely because I was so young. (194)

>I felt the same thing with Tezuka’s Tales of a Street Corner – the animated film which Muschi Pro poured everything into making. There’s a scene in the film where posters of a ballerina and a violinist of some such things are trampled and scattered by soldiers’ boots during an air raid and then waft into the flames like moths. I remember that when I saw this, I was so disgusted that chills ran down my spine. (194-5)

>Now I’ll refrain from going into too much detail because I don’t want to belabour the point, but when I saw [Pictures at an Exhibition], I really wondered what the heck the film was all about. And in the last scene in Cleopatra, at the line, “Go home, Rome,” I felt disgust. They had spent so much effort trying to develop so many sexy love scenes that the final “Go home, Rome,” line was just oo much for me to take. that was around the time I really sensed the bankruptcy of Tezuka’s vanity. (195)

>>147093599
And on Disney:

>Disney’s Cinderella. . . is living proof that modeling live-action images in the pursuit of realistic movement is a double-edged sword. In trying to achieve a sense of realism by using an average American young woman as a model, they lost even more of the inherent symbolism of the original Cinderella story than they did with their version of Snow White. (74-5)

>>147093548
>hating based Popeye man

Is there a bigger cunt than Miyazaki? Fuck that jii-san.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p_SABG3SPk

>>147093548

Admittedly I haven't watched any of the Tezuka films he's talking about. I only watched Hi no tori, which I liked, but the manga was better.
The old Astro Boy TV series was indeed low budget though.

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>>147093625
It's a known fact that Miyazaki hates excessive referencing and rotosope.

>>147092411
This.

>>147093445
No, he appreciates Tezuka but considers him a hack, especially in his animation:

>Many publications ran memorial features on Osamu TEZUKA upon his death in 1989, and while most experts and insiders would memorialize him in these articles, Hayao MIYAZAKI, while acknowledging Tezuka’s achievements as a manga author, criticized him harshly with regards to his activities within the field of animation, leaving many around the world dumbfounded.

>“But as far as animation—I say this believing that on this topic alone I have the right, and also some duty to say this—Everything that Tezuka-san had spoken about or advocated was wrong.” (“Tezuka Osamu ni ‘Kami no Te’ wo Mita Toki, Boku wa Kare to Ketsubetsu shita ”. Miyazaki, Hayao. Comicbox, May 1989)

>Miyazaki sharply criticized Tezuka by saying that he believed that as an animator, Tezuka was a “Novice” and an “Unskilled Enthusiast”, but that despite this he was able to use his fame as a manga author to create his own anime company which then began to produce television anime, severely warping the direction of the Japanese animation industry.

http://2chan.us/wordpress/2009/04/13/japanese-lectureblog-post-translation-the-space-between-anime-and-manga-4-why-is-the-manga-version-of-%E2%80%9Cnausicaa%E2%80%9D-so-hard-to-read-by-takekuma-kentaro/

I also love this article because it points out Miyazaki's inadequacies as a mangaka.

>>147093058
That's pretty reasonable. When markets don't cater to me or move from catering to me as they increase in popularity I direct my anger at the demographic that changed the thing I like. Nothing wrong with that.

>>147093806
Fuck I love this

>>147093453
And my point is there's going to be some faggots remembering shit like erased or re:zero as "classics" and how "moes ruined the medium I remember the old days when it used to be good" far in the future just like today's born in the wrong generation fuckers that think 90s was the best decade for anime when in fact it was the worst. Just like today, just like 20 years ago. It's all just nostalgia trying to find a scapegoat to blame the "decline" of the industry to.

>>147093976
And my point is that you will be an old nostalgic fuck at some point in your life, too.

>>147093302
>cute girls
check
>doing comedic stuff
check

>>147093058
i don't think crowdfunding is really a thing in japan

and the foreign crowdfunding market barely supports singular episodes, let alone series

>>147092693
I think you mean
>cute girls
>cute girls
>cute girls
>Fujo bait
>Fujo bait

>>147088937
>One guy says anime is dying!
>Okay, let's listen to the chump because his name is all the proof he needs!

>>147094010
>people
check
>talking
>check
Konosuba is about people talking, guys.

>>147094012
I think Mayoiga was actually crowdfunded, but I do think that it'd be difficult to crowdfund a project

>>147094054
Poor people who ordered Mayoiga. they probably thought they were getting a Higurashi clone

>>147094006
But at least I won't be as wrong.

>>147094108

That's subjective.

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tl;dr
>"uwaaaa Anime isn't like what I want!"

>>147094234
Pretty reasonable to be honest. If every show was suddenly well written with an interesting plot I'm sure you would be throwing tantrums too.

>>147092819
Mainstream anime itself doesn't sell lots of anime discs, which for the niche anime shows that /a/ tends to talk about is more important. Mainstream anime like One Piece that airs during the day does sell lots of other merchandise and manga volumes. Movies of those shows on the other hand do sell lots of discs.

>>147093976
No show of today has anything on shows like Eva or Lain.
No show nowadays is as subtle, complex, has as good shot composition and aesthetics(this last point being the most controversial, but seeing how everything is so much cheaper nowadays it's pretty much a given fact) as those shows.

>>147094363
>good shot composition and aesthetic
Here come the kyoani fags

So all old timers in the industry are actually closet homosexuals that hate cute girls, did I get that right?

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>>147092649
You get better titties out of French works, and they still manage to maintain a semblance of artistry on top of it.

>>147093924
> the demographic that changed the thing I like
So people who like the things you like? Because it's their fault, you know. It's not that people who like the things you don't like are cheating or delivering some massive over-the-top overall sums of money - they're literally the only ones giving enough money to support the industry to begin with. People who share your anti-current-anime taste, whatever it may be, are not putting their money where their mouth is. So blame them, because they are the ones who cause stuff they like to not be made, by not watching/buying it.

>>147093548
Feels bad I'll never shit on the people who made Japanese anime when they die because I'm a pleb who pretends to have taste

>>147094512
I was speaking more in abstracts to be honest.

>>147094054
That was misleading. Mayoiga did have a crowdfund drive, but it was for like $10K or something else tiny that wouldn't fund even half of an episode, and it happened a few weeks before the show aired, when obviously the actual funding was already done and work was well underway. It was clearly more of an experiment with an eye to the future than an actual funding method for Mayoiga itself.

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>>147094385
Everyone who isn't just an otaku who's completely oblivious to visual composition in photography or painting wouldn't call kyoani anything but hollywood tier in their shot composition.

>>147094588
>>147094363
>this nigger again
Do you really need to try and lecture /a/ about European arthouse shot composition every five days?

>>147094012
Didnt Trigger crowdsource for their upcoming movie?

Tell Watanabe to move to movies, no one is gonna give him money for another half cour series.

>>147094588
https://boards.fireden.net/_/search/image/KlpU-LwpvsZSyHMx71g3Dw/
Fuck off already, you autist.

>>147094363
All of those are quite irrelevant if a person has nostalgia goggles thick enough.

>>147093548
>shitting on popeye
What a fag

>>147094684
>>147094648
They may be an autist but they're doing god's work.

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>>147094400
How many sameface character archtype shows with a full female cast can you possibly sit down and watch in it's entirety in your lifetime before you've had enough

>>147094720
popeye a shit.

>>147094684

He's not wrong though

>>147094684
>>147094648

>waa, more knowledgeable, tasteful people who are actually into visual arts are on my board mom, make them leave!

>>147094694
But my point is that it's not because of nostalgia goggles. It's just that the industry doesn't think those shows are safe enough to invest in.

>>147094586
https://www.makuake.com/project/mayoiga/
I was just only trying to point out the only example I could think of, not trying to mislead, and the original goal is 30k, it wouldn't have made an actual impact for sure though
I still think it is worth pointing out in regards to the extremely high average amount backed compared to most other things on kickstarter

>>147094771
I've had about 300 and there hasn't been any sign of stopping.
Thanks for the concern.

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>>147094771
>he thinks cute girls will ever get old

I have been watching them for 22 years, and have yet to tire of them.

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>Meanwhile at Kyoani

Face it guys, you aren't Miyazaki. Mizayaki bases his criticism on style and content and is always insightful, you on the other spam every thread whining about moeshit. You might as well be on GIA when you compare your shitposting to his god posting

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I wonder if Anno IRL actually thinks the same of animators these days as his Shirobako self.

>>147094771
I've lost count.
It's gonna take a lot of them.

Why won't educated people just admit that it is because of the declining economy?
>80~90s, corporations had it much easier to invest on random things and they had money floating around in their corporate bank accounts and banks gave out loans to anyone in need.
Now Japanese learned how to calculate and gauge their profit so they don't invest on random shits like anime

>>147094870
>Face it guys, you aren't Miyazaki
Not an argument

>>147094887
>Not an argument
>>>/v/
>>>/pol/

>>147094873
Probably but it was pretty useless to tell that to an production assistant.

>>147094873
Not if the clusterfuck of shitty CGI and explosions in 3.0 was any indicator.

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>>147094809
>>147094849
>>147094879

>Near infinite possibilities only constrained by the human imagination and the limitations of a 2D medium
>Just make and watch the same thing over and over again

>>147094924
Not him but you get off of /a/ if you don't like anime discussion, stupid.

>>147094924
I still don't see any argument.

>>>/t/umblr

>>147094802
>more knowledgeable
Some nigger posted some of the most famous shots from Texhnolyze as an example of top-tier directing that wasn't NGE, and you asked for source.

>>147093453
And?You are not making any point.

>>147094802
And they're right to think so, the anime that marketed themselves as being unique that did get funded have been nothing but dogshit.

Nostalgia might not be the main factor but it definitely does play a big part, at least for most casuals.

>>147094962
>you can't like something unless it's new
Who the fuck cares how many possibilities there are? I don't give a shit about creativity for its own sake, I want to enjoy myself.

>>147094979
Wasn't talking about anime knowledge.

>>147094969
>engaging /pol/tards in discussion
"Not an argument" is a phrase used by /pol/ fags that makes them think that they've automatically invalidated anything the other person says.

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>>147094962
It is a shame those lowly plebians do not have superior taste like ourselves, right?

>>147094120
Nope

>>147094854
Not after Shinkai came by.

>>147094854
>Koe no Floptchi
>money

>>147095013
>discussion about the development and current state of the anime industry
>on the anime board
>Anime direction has gotten worse, I know this because I'm really knowledgeable about live action!
Then go back to /tv/, nigger.

>>147094962
>Near infinite possibilities only constrained by the human imagination and the limitations of a 2D medium
Where do people get this idea? Anime has always been made to sell shit and always will be.

>>147094962
The fact that you think anything with cute girls in it is automatically trash, makes you exactly what that picture is saying.

>>147095070
I know it has gotten worse because I'm not uncultured and I know a thing or two about our visual tradition.

>>147094880
Because all these issues are connected.
Yes, the economy is the reason companies can't afford throwaway investments in random creative projects by anime studios. But the reason that's a throwaway investment is because of how the industry itself has changed. Anime is a bad investment because it's too niche of a market and it's been trending down towards increasingly nichedom for a very long time.

The reason we see so goddamn many awful LN adaptations every season is a symptom of this. Studios take these contracts in spades to pay the bills because they're about the only thing available. Publishers put money into the industry because anime adaptations are a proven effective way of advertising their products, but the problem is that there's nothing else outside of that. Most other companies and industries see anime as a bad investment and steer well clear. The result is that the whole industry has become a practice in just paying the bills from season by making big LN commercials, while everything else has stagnated and atrophied.

>>147095043
I think technically to repetitively consume the same thing over and over again you would have to have no taste to begin with.

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>"The Anime Industry is Declining" says increasingly jaded has-been for the 70th time this year

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>>147095160

>>147095070
>You have to pretend anime exists in an artistic vacuum to judge it properly

Nice one m8.

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He's right. That's why we don't have more WMTs.

>>147095145
And yet, when everything is so obvious, a bunch of retards are denying the industry has been declining for a long time.

>>147095160
Oh man you're saying that drinking water is bad for me? Thanks man I'll put that wisdom into practice.

>>147095162
Isekai getting as popular as it has been proves him right more than ever before.

>>147095197
I'm not saying you can't properly judge works that you watch. I'm saying that if he isn't familiar with anime and can't recognize famous works that seem right up his alley, then he clearly can't make any sort of reliable statements about the state of the industry now or in the past. No amount of artistic knowledge or taste will change this - you can't judge things you haven't seen, that's voodoo magic.

>>147095239
It "declined" maybe somewhat in the 90s, it's been in a rise ever since.

>>147091954
I think the same. This was the reason I stopped watching shonenshit, it was all so obnoxious. Doesnt mean I hate mechs , its just that why is one guy doing everything when literally anyone else could do it (note: self insertion is the problem here). Then I realized its made for kids and they like it that way.
So I now mostly just keep to cute girls doing badass things if want my action/mech fill

>>147095252
What? Isekai has literally not been 2% of the anime output in any year this decade. It's popular in LNs/WNs, not in anime and manga.

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>>147095243
If you want to boil it down into increasingly meaningless food analogies then it's more like eating steak well done and with ketchup.

>>147095239
Just because the industry isn't pandering to you doesn't make it a decline.

>>147095297
>So I now mostly just keep to cute girls doing badass things if want my action/mech fill

But it has the same fucking problem

>>147095145
The industry changed because those things didn't make money, so few people are willing to fund them.

And selling toys to kids still makes money as well. Far more so than LNs.

>>147091954
This is silly.

You would eliminate 99% of the stories where people accomplished something great in a vehicle.

>>147095333
Miya-san said it, that means you're an otaku if you disagree.

http://ghiblicon.blogspot.com/2009/12/hayao-miyazakis-thoughts-on-pixar.html

>>147095312
>eating steak well done and with ketchup
There is literally nothing wrong with this.

>>147092936
There is no generic moe.
Its really hard to fail in creating interesting cgdct

>anime is in decline
>anime and related product sales continue growing
>reaching wider audience than ever before
what did he mean by this?

>>147095198
But WMT had tons of cute girls.

>>147093548
>He found it too pessimistic and even expresses having felt disgust when he watched films like Mermaid (1964)
I wish I could hate him to death

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>>147091954
>essentially talking shit about initial D

>>147095333
Yes, it's daft. I suppose he might mean that this way the protagonist has no real agency because he's just walking up and pushing a button on a machine someone else built. But that's not how those shows actually work at all.

I doubt he'd complain about a samurai story where the hero didn't forge his own sword.

>>147095363
There is plenty of things wrong with that

>>147095441
>Eurobeat is a symptom of the death of cultured society.
- Miyazaki Hayao

>>147094792
Say that to my face

>>147095458
Name five.

>>147095239
Well the core issue is the decline in physical media sales.
It was never a big deal until VHS becoming big caused a boom. It was easy to make lots of money because everyone was buying into VHS and IPs were a veritable wild west where the more different things you could slap onto a tape and sell, the better. Everyone remembers anime being great from this era, when there was a lot of worth in investing in something you thought could be a big VHS-seller.

That declined for many reasons as technology moved forward, and now we're in an era where selling physical media is no longer a big way to make money. The anime industry lost a major income stream with the decline of physical media and still haven't recovered. The trends toward niche result from the inability to afford risks when you don't have as much money to throw around. The industry still hasn't found better ways to monetize or make their product appealing so it continues to struggle to make money outside of niche appeal.

>>147095447
To be fair, the way he says "he should have to operate it himself" makes me sound like he might be thinking of Tetsujin, where it's remote controlled, and maybe there were others like that back then, but I still think it's silly. The MC is still doing things, it's just not the exact kind of righteous struggle that Miyazaki apparently demands.

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>>147094588
Let's post great shots from Evangelion.

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>>147095333
I think the point of that is to make the robot more an extension of the character and their own humanity rather than just a literal vehicle for them to do things plot relevant in. Like instead of some kid just being the best robutt pilot ever because fuck you, instead he builds and maintains his own robot that puts him over the top of humanity, not because he got some literal deus ex machina, but because he was able to create and utilize something that was above and beyond anything that came before, so both the robutt and all that's achieved with it are a direct result of the character's unique accomplishments and insight.

>>147095486
it tastes like shit
it's a waste of what could have been perfectly good meat
it tastes like shit
it's a waste of your tastebuds
it tastes like shit

>>147095312
The point is that expecting any medium to carve out new shows or series that is 100% unique on the regular is fucking retarded. You're basically saying people have shit taste just because they have a favourite genre or cliche that they like.

>>147095519
That sounds cool on paper and all, but when I'm actually watching the show I don't think I could possibly care less. Philosophical extrapolations like that don't really communicate themselves in the actual experience most of the time, and trying to shoehorn them in to stuff where they clearly aren't being brought up is a pet peeve of them.

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>>147095517

>>147094771
Infinite lifetimes

>>147095579
>Philosophical extrapolations like that don't really communicate themselves in the actual experience most of the time
They actually do, this is why the phrase "literature" is a thing

>>147088937
,>>147089093
Can we stop this same thread and instead talk about how the industry, from a financial standpoint, is on thin ice? It's true that the audience has gotten narrower and narrower, and that is far from a good thing. Both too few and too many viewers necessitate a restriction on creative freedom, but at least one of them gives the big bucks to allow for more creative failures.
Will we ever reach a future where buying anime doesn't cost a couple kidneys? I'm not sure why western animation is so much cheaper. Is it because of the lack of super-fans? I'm under the impression that, despite far fewer shows airing, a much smaller percentage get DVDs at all, and even fewer get proper releases (whole show by season instead of themed episode-collection

>>147094792
t. sap jap

>>147095239
>industry has been declining
How is industry declining when there are more anime now then ever before and no sign of decreasing?

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>>147095583

>>147095419
>anime and related product sales continue growing
Good joke. This is only partially true since studios are slowly beginning to notice global revenue streams and sort of take advantage of them occasionally.

>>147095538
All of those are subjective.

>>147095623
>QUALITY shots are examples of good shot composition

Evageeks continues to be retarded as usual.

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>>147095623

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>>147095517
Sorry for the shit quality.

>>147095643
>it's true but it's not true
again
what did he mean by this?

>>147095657
Loss of detail from a far view isn't QUALITY. Learn your terminology.

>>147095607
I said most of the time, nigger, and when they communicate themselves in written form they're often not extrapolations, or at least not to the same extent - they are made clearer by the phrasing chosen, if not actually highlighted/explained. Jumping into a show about a kid piloting a robot and getting annoyed because the fact that he didn't build it suggests a framework you aren't okay with is silly, and not at all the same as going and reading a work clearly centering on a theme. There are thousands of these potential "insights" in every story, it's a dumb pastime to try and seize on them when they aren't deliberate.

>>147095568
>You're basically saying people have shit taste just because they have a favourite genre or cliche that they like
In this instance the entire format of the show would be dozens of little cliches wrapped up in 1 big cliche.

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>>147095658

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>>147095658

>>147095321
Nope, theyre actually very well written.
See GuP, Strike Witches, and Ange Vierge this season for example

>>147093464
Would be really interested in seeing the data behind this. Real question, what metrics support this?

>>147095685
Not him, and I'm no expert on draw distance, but I feel like Asuka's mouth should at least be more distinct at that range. It does look jarring to me, not that that really has anything to do with shot composition.

>>147095519
Sounds like a trip to Garry Stusville to me. Why would a brilliant pilot have to be a brilliant engineer as well? Again, the samurai doesn't forge his own sword and his acomplishments are no less legitimate for that.

I also disagree with the principle, but that's a different issue.

>>147095611
If the industry is really on financial thin ice, why are they producing more and more anime? Basic microeconomics states that the more profitable something is, the more you produce.

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>>147095716

>>147095611
Western TV cartoons are paid for by the TV networks, unlike late-night anime where it is supported by a group of investors who pay for the time slot.

>>147095752
Maybe. I'm not an expert, either, but it's my guess that the line of her mouth would look thick and blobby from such a distance. Regardless, it's as you said: that her facial features aren't distinct doesn't affect the composition of the shot.

>>147095711
And what's wrong with that?

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>>147095677
It's only true if you ignore the crippling crash in 2008 that the surviving studios only recently recovered from.

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>>147095767

>>147095611
>Will we ever reach a future where buying anime doesn't cost a couple kidneys? I'm not sure why western animation is so much cheaper.
Western animation has a different model to begin with and is much more focused on mainstream family stuff. Also, it never had the whole rental situation that lead to high anime prices - basically, there was higher demand than expected for anime on home media, and once the initial run ran out people would buy the rental store's copies at inflated prices instead, and it turned out that these higher prices still had enough demand that sales at that standard would actually have been more profitable than selling at the normal prices, so studios made the obvious decision to switch to that. I'm not quite sure why it hasn't fallen back down ever due to competition, but I think it might be because the fixation of fans on specific anime dulls competition - they want a specific anime, not just "an anime," so they'd rather buy that anime at a higher price than another company's other anime at a lower one.

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>>147095421
It's cute in a good way.

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>>147095761
>How can you learn to build this amazing and complex robot to these exact specifications AND know how to use it??
>Checkmate

Where is my "kill people posting on 4chan" button

>>147095843
>sales continue growing
>that's only true if you're talking about the last eight years
I mean, you do have a point, but he's still not wrong. Sales have been stable and/or growing since 2009/10, and it's not like the 2008 crash had anything to do with the industry specifically.

>>147095611
It's a different business model.
In the west, television stations sell timespace for ads to make most of their money and pay to air things to get people to watch their channel so people see the adds. The more people are watching at a particular time block, the more valuable the adspace is and the more money can be made. Western production companies, both live-action and animation-focused, can meet their bottom line just through partnerships with television stations who pay them to make things to show.

This is also why the western animation industry crashed and burned so hard. Stations aren't interested in paying to air niche things.

In Japan, things are a little different and most anime studios pay to have their shows run on a channel, because the show itself is functionally a 24-minute informercial for bluerays, franchise tie-ins and etc. That means they rely heavily on external funding from parties interested in monetizing their show, and have to rely on other income streams to recoup production expenses and turn a profit.

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>>147095519
That kind of isolates him in an unrealistic way.

Making something complex and operating it are completely different disciplines. That's why Jiro didn't fly his planes.

It's nice when you have a mechanic, an instructor and a pilot because it becomes a team effort, that's ultimately more human and relatable.

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>>147095844
I have a bunch more I could post, but I'm pretty tired. Just wanted to highlight some of the great visual direction here.

>>147095882
He didn't say "how," he said "why?" Piloting and fighting with a mecha is its own skill, you aren't somehow coasting on someone else's power just because you didn't make your weapon yourself.

>>147095882
"Know how to use it" is not really the same as "be good at using it". Do you suppose every aeronautics engineer is a pilot?

>>147095747
Me looking at seasonal anime lists

>>147090645
Alan Moore
It's not the audience job to tell the artist what they want. If they knew what they wanted, they'd be the artist wouldn't they?

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A lot of anime is really bad and unoriginal, but people watch them anyway since they have nothing but free time on their hands and not much better to do.

God forbid these people be out reproducing instead, so really you should be thanking anime.

>>147095676
for a sec I thought that was Asuka in her plug suit bending down with her hands on her hips. . .

>>147096065
Nice projecting bro.

>>147090645
I think it's referring to narrow tastes between the two, not that the consumers want the same things the creators want to make. Expanding and evolving taste helps a person grow.

>>147096142
>I think it's referring to narrow tastes between the two, not that the consumers want the same things the creators want to make.
I'm pretty sure he's saying both, but only complaining about the former.

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>>147096083
Is someone actually defending subhuman Japanese otaku?

I know /a/ is basically 2chan-lite now, but surely people still have some self awareness left

you can bet the numales are going to parade around with those guys to "change" anime "for better"

the fad of original anime is over. we're back to making adaptations, for better or worse.

>>147096192
>Is someone actually defending subhuman Japanese otaku?

They're the ones actually funding anime, so damn right we're going to defend them. Normalfags wouldn't give a cent.

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>>147096213
Some of my favorite chinese cartoons were funded by normalfags though.

>>147096192
You didn't say Japanese otaku in that first post.

But what's wrong with spending your free time on anime? That's why we're all here.

>>147096196
Good original animes are all cancer.

>>147096196
There's more than enough original anime coming out the Fall season, there are some adaptations with complete anime original plot, and there's some adaptations that stick and are true to the source material.

>>147096213
Maybe if you didn't like the garbage they like you wouldn't think so highly of them ruining anime with their shit taste votes in BD sales for awful shows.

>>147096275
>ruining
Nigger, if they didn't buy it'd just collapse.

>>147096053
The difference here is that the audience and artist want the same thing anyways.

>>147096294
Don't be entirely sure. it would shrink but some studios would try to endure and cater to the mythical "normalfag" and might succeed.

>>147096343
space dandy proved you can't do this

>>147096294
Or... or... those studio starts looking for new demographics to pander to

>>147094849
>hasn't grown up mentally one bit in 22 years

this is sad

>>147096368
Wasn't that a smashing success?

>>147096271
>There's more than enough original anime coming out the Fall season
And all of them seem more pandering than your average source adaptation is.

Kinda funny that he complained about how hard he found it to gather funds for ambitious projects on this millennium yet he made most of his works just recently.

>>147096377
It's just media, dude.

People can get their growing outside of the cartoons they prefer.

>>147096368
I'm a comparative normalfag in anime taste and didn't like it. They're doing it wrong. Space Dandy is too comedic.

>>147096387
The late-night anime industry is made by otaku for otaku.
Also, diverse taste and stuff.

>>147096370
That's not how it works.

>>147096368
Space Dandy does try to pander to the western audience a little, but it's far from "normalfag" pandering.

>>147096263
unironically kill yourself

>>147096379
It was popular but not a financial success.

>>147092222
Shit taste, please go away.

>>147096379
in the west maybe. it completely flopped in japan, and given how much money japan actually gets from the west they might have earned nothing as well

>>147096420
my main gripe with Space Dancy is that it was way too creative for it's own good. it lost it's identity after first cour, between all those surreal and completely random settings. the show became about nothing, with episodes held together with Dandy, cat, robot guy and le monkey villain

>>147096513
>le monkey villain
post invalidated. try again.

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>>147089093
How can one man have so much disdain for fighting robots.

>>147095519
>>147091954

It's because he doesn't like people doing things they didn't create with their own two hands. He has this feeling of "you didn't earn it"

>>147096420
>normalfag
Don't come to /a/

>>147096343
> cater to the mythical "normalfag"
Studios already do this. That's called daytime anime.

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>Hayao "I'll burn your daki" Miyazaki

>>147095519

It's not that, it's that he's a communist. And I don't mean that in terms of an insult, I mean he's a literal, bona-fide communist. The workers should not only control the means of produciton in his eyes, but they should be revered in society for that fact. Someone who cannot create things, being able to do great things, is insulting to him.

Rewatch his films, all of the lead characters know or learn how to make something, even if it's something small and insignificant.

>>147096836
why does Anno always wear such comfy clothes

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>>147088937
this kills the industry

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>>147096836
anno is a fucking monkey, those ears

>>147096836
I thought I had big ears but damn Anno.

>>147096730
At least he is one slight step above those who call themselves normie.

>>147096623
Does Miyazaki dislike Godzilla too

>>147096964
He browses /fa/. That's why he makes so much Eva clothing.

>>147096836
>people take this autist's word for gold

>>147097036
When will mebae make his own anime and save the industry?

At this point, I'm just looking for anime with pretty interesting and different enough settings regardless of how they execute their plot. One of the many reason I found Joker Game to be interesting. I don't find many series telling stories of spies and espionage based on with the backdrop of our own history out there. I don't give a shit if it's fujobait or boring.

>>147097249
>I don't give a shit if it's boring
How does this even work? If you really dislike most anime so much that you'll watch stuff that outright bores you, just fucking try something that isn't anime. There are like ten million spy movies, the things you want aren't hard to find.

>>147097094
To detect the faint screams of otaku across mountains and oceans.

>>147096377
Why are you projecting on that Anon? People can't enjoy their hobbies forever just because you don't like his choice of cartoons? The fuck is wrong with you?

>>147089093

funny because 0 of those directors have any actual ANIME under their belts


its all "anime" movies. Which is to say, totally fucking different from a 12 hour / 6 hour television series.

The reason why Watanabe speaks the truth is because hes actually done it. Christ, the last anime I can think of that actually had any balls was Michiko to Hatchin, and even then they had to shoehorn in a loli to get viewers.

>>147090645

????????

what a stupid fucking opinion. You're an idiot.


"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses"

>>147091141

[citation needed]

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>Osomatsu sold 100k.
>no cute girls.

Fuck off with this garbage that you need to create "moe" and "cute girls" to have a successful show.

Also who can trust Wantanabe any more after Zankyou no Terror even though I enjoyed quite a few moments in it.

It's the same shit from all of them
>The industry is dying
>Everyone is just catering to the moe cute girl otakus.
Fuck off.

>>147096790
Not all normalfags are kids

>>147096730
Where else would I discuss Attack on Titan and Kill la Kill?

>>147097574
>Kon
>Anno
>Miyazaki
>none of them have directed television series
Are you fucking retarded? They all have.

>>147090685
>>147091954
>>147092014
>>147095297
>>147095333
>>147095441
He did say this in 1979 which doesn't apply to most mecha anime /a/ has seen

>>147097694
>Not all normalfags are kids
Adults still watch One Piece and Sazae-san and shit. Those are the most mainstream anime. And most of the non-all-ages stuff that could be mainstream gets adapted to doramas instead, because that kind of material simply gets them better profits as live-action than it would as anime.

>>147093976

Except the 90s and 80s literally WERE the heyday of anime.


Large economic windfalls = more entertainment industry = more gambles on creative projects. Sure, you still had the safe bet kind of creations in the 90s, but you cannot say that there werent as many landmark shows then compared to now.

Even attempting to argue that isnt the case shows a biased opinion. It is a FACT that anime produced in the mid to late 90s - early 2000's have had a worldwide impact on the perception of the industry.

>>147097760
>Adults still watch One Piece and Sazae-san and shit.
Then they aren't normalfags

>>147097839
You have done it! You have defeated the naysayers who say their current niche garbage trumps the anime of the 90s and early 00s.

Until they can come back with a snappier answer anyway.

>it's a solfags get angry episode

>>147097574
>Anno
>no anime series under his belt
This is so dumb that I can't even be sure it's bait.

>>147097844
Yes, they are. They have no interest in anime overall, probably don't watch anything else, and it's not regarded as unusual. They sure aren't otaku, and that means they're normalfags.

Also, you seem to think Sazae-san is a kids' show, and in that case you don't know what you're talking abuot in the slightest and shouldn't even be having this argument.

>>147097839
Provide evidence for those FACTs of yours.

>>147097839
> It is a FACT that anime produced in the mid to late 90s - early 2000's have had a worldwide impact on the perception of the industry.
Complete non sequitur, the discussion is about quality.

>>147097839
>>147097883
The only difference between the 90s and today is volume of anime. Today there are more shows being made, so it seems like there's more shit being made. There were just as many bad shows produced in the 90s. The only people who nostalgia-fag over anime from the 90s are people who didn't live through them as anime fans and have only watched the best of what the decade had to offer for anime.

>>147097976
> people who didn't live through them as anime fans
I'd just like to add that even the people who were around back then didn't get most of the random bullshit, because it wasn't big enough to wind up in their local video store, if it even got subbed to begin with.

>>147097976
What if I watch shit ovas from the 90s and nostalgiafag over them but still rate them 5-6/10 and yet don't rate anything modern 9-10/10?

>>147097678
Well, it was well directed. The problem was the premise turned out to be retarded and nine (or whoever the afro chick was) was a terrible character. But yeah, it's definitely a black mark on his name.

>>147097760
I like dramas, but this truth hurts.

>>147097895
>They sure aren't otaku, and that means they're normalfags.
You think there are only two kinds of people?

>Also, you seem to think Sazae-san is a kids' show
It's one of the only acceptable animu to adults, you can't shield the fact that 95% of the stuff on during the day is for kids just by it existing.

>>147097678
they could've instead try to make something geared for modern anime industry instead of whining that people got bored of old dog's tricks

but it's way better than john carmack jumping around pretending to be enjoying playing minecraft in VR, desperatedly trying to be still revelant

>>147098067
>>147097760
There's some things you can't do with dramas on a cheap budget that you can do with animu on the same budget.

>>147097839
>worldwide impact
>Implying anywhere but Japan matters
As in all other areas, only manga does a good job in this. "Perception" hardly matters compared to "money", and it is literal cultural ignorance to say that the 90s were the most important just because they were important for exporting to where you live, not because of any industry change.

>>147097921

evangelion
DBZ
Cowboy Bebop
Samurai Champloo
Yu-gi-oh!
Death Note
Trigun
Ghost in the Shell: SAC
Pokemon

Getting into the lesser known niche stuff

Big O
Patlabor
Gunsmith Cats
Baccano!
Hidamari Sketch
Hellsing
Black Lagoon
SZS
Serial Experiments Lain
Haruhi
Techonolyxe
Haibane Renmei
Macross series (Frontier, 7, etc)
Rozen Maiden (Ok, not really that good, but still emblematic)

All of these shows in the top tier are well known to most people, at least people who watched Adult Swim.

Those on the lower spectrum are generally regarded as watermarks in the western fandom for being generally regarded as universally good.

Compare to, say

Yuru Yuri?
Strike Witches?
Girls und Panzer?

The closest thing I can think of is maybe Madoka or Bakemonogatari, which really arent "cute girls do cute things" but still regarded as generally good.

Theres a reason most people regard The Sopranos or The Wire as good television, because a large audience watched it and regarded as good. I cannot say a majority of "anime fans" would regard the samey, cute girls doing cute things trope as particularly groundbreaking or even exciting

This is coming from a religious watcher of Hidamari Sketch. I know my cute girls doing cute things, but I also know when an industry is stagnating and collapsing under its own rotten weight because im not a sub-40 IQ mongoloid who shuts his brain off and watches the Japanese equivalent of marvel movies

>>147098055
>nine (or whoever the afro chick was) was a terrible character.
Why did this character trigger everyone on /a/ simultaneously? I constantly see her mentioned as the most awful character ever

>>147098141
Half of those are from before or after the 90s.
>Haruhi
>Niche

>>147095829

The fact that what you enjoy is vapid, soulless exploitation? That the creator knows youre just not bright enough to comprehend unique themes different from the drivel youve been consuming for the past three quarter decades? Christ, anon, grow some fucking self esteem. Or a brain.

>>147098144
>I constantly see her mentioned as the most awful character ever
I wouldn't go that far, but her introduction was right around when the show made it clear what it was trying to be. I guess it wasn't really her fault (though she definitely was annoying so it's easy to blame her) but she was the point where a lot of people (including me) dropped the show.

>>147095419

>hollywood industry is in decline
>hollywood industry makes more money than ever before due to globalization (more consumers who havent seen your product before)
>seasoned veterans of said industry say that industry is collapsing under its own weight of derivative, shallow repetitive movies and will soon implode once people move on from the fad


hmmm its almost fucking like something like economic bubbles exist....theres no possible way this way of making money can somehow be wrong and actually not based on sound theory!

>>147097758
We all know exactly which anime he's talking about

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Okay we settle this shit once and for all.

Is what Watanabe said True or False?

>tyring to make money from bds and merch

You can get a lot more money if you use the internet properly with subscriptions and adds.

>>147098203
tip

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hah its not DECLINEING IT IS FUCKING DEAD MOTHERFUCERS YOU WILL NEVER SEE DECENT ANIME IN YOUR PATHETIC LIFE SPANS THIS TECH IS LOCKED AWAY FROM EARTH.

Why haven't they taken advantage of streaming?

Moeshit only became a problem after kon. Nobody hated haruhi or ls

>>147098335
True until 2013 but moe has been headed downwards for awhile now. The problem now is that the manga and LNs being adapted are vapid trash for the most part because vapid trash sells.

>>147098369
You're a fucking idiot, as is evident from your spelling.

>>147098131

If japanese businesses werent constrained by the retarded nature of their internal logic and governmental inability to regulate, yes, worldwide consumer perception would be an issue. Sadly it isnt, which is why 80% of anime now is geared towards either 1. Highschoolers that read LN's or 2. Greasy NEET fucks who just want their cute 14 year olds

>>147098447
I hated all three.

>>147098276
>theres no possible way this way of making money can somehow be wrong and actually not based on sound theory
you know if you're trying to make a point you should really try to use sentences that make sense

>>147098390
Because they already get anime on OTA broadcast and satellite TV. Why would Japanese consumers stream it?

>>147098492
What he said made sense to me. He's arguing that bubbles are demonic and lead to long term problems.

>>147097976

Its a fact that less was produced. Nobody is contesting there WASNT drivel in the 90s and early 2000's, or even in the 80's. 98% of everything is crap. Books, movies, whatever.

The issue is you havent had a single gusher that has propelled and defined the industry since maybe Bakemono / Madoka, and even then its nowhere close to getting MORE consumers into the industry.

>>147098496
Because they don't fucking have OTA broadcasts and Satelite TV on trains or out in the world.

The first company to fully exploit the mobile generation is the first to win.

>>147098496
Cut the cable bro. Down with the 100 dollar cable bills!

Also they don't have to stay up til 2am to watch it

It's the same with TV, movies, cartoons, comics, games, and music. It doesn't matter what the time period is or anything, good shit will still be made no matter what. Good games still come out despite when people say that better games were made in the past and that games of the present suck. Same with music, good music still comes out despite when people say it was better in the past. Things haven't changed then and they still won't change now. Good shit is good shit no matter what and I'm happy it exists.

>>147098492

are you a non native speaker or some shit retard

what they said makes perfect sense, theyre saying bubbles result from improper ways of managing business, even if they make money in the short run

>>147088937
says the guy who made such a shitty anime

>>147098521
how is there a bubble in the anime industry though?
we haven't even begun to see the potential of it in western countries

>>147098537
Videogames haven't had a single gusher that has propellend and defined the industry since 10 years ago, besides HD remakes of W3 mod and anime team fortress

I don't expect disney tier masterworks, just some above average fun shows to pick from each season

>>147098546
Japs try to hide their power level, they're not gonna be streaming some shit show on their flip phone on the train.

DVR is also a thing that Japs have.

Miyazaki is the /v/ of anime
He hates everything

>>147098614
Too many shows, not enough butts in the seats

>>147098546
But that is wrong you fuck. Japanese cell phone models receive OTA broadcasts.

>>147095764

???
thats a massive fallacy anon, cmon man use your brain
Theres 10 people in my village. I bake 5 pies and sell it to them for $2 a pop.


Okay, now my village has 100 people. I bake 50 pies, and sell them for $20 a pop.

See how it works?

>>147092411
Exactly. So impotent western leechfags need to start buying or shut up.

>>147093638
Fuck you Popeye was made by the Jews

Based Miyazaki spreading the redpill

>>147098615

And why do you think the videogame industry in on the exact same decline as "CoD clone #2303" or "Open world GTA clone #2010"?

You do realize its a bad sign when a majority of revenue for a certain industry is geared towards ADVERTISING AND MARKETING THE PRODUCT rather than producing it? Now you tell ME why thats a bad thing

popeye was amazing, better than most anime for sure

Even though I hate cutesy, meaningless garbage and ecchi swill it just seems like old artists who don't like change and are mad they're not in the limelight/think they're the pinnacle and everyone should follow.
"Giant robots!? Ugh! How distasteful! "-myazaki/kon
"Nobody wants my crummy ideas!?, it's entirely the industry's fault."-wantanabe

>>147094873

This makes a lot of sense. Especially in RE: Zero

>>147098614

how isnt there? Jesus christ, are you retarded?

Compare the amount of anime being made now to cater to a specific audience in lieu of the potential audience. How many of these shows turn a profit? How many studios make projects that forecast well into the long term?

If every producer made the same product with the same quality at the same price, does that sound productive to you? How long would such a market last without genuine competition, anon?

>>147095016

>anything I disagree with is /pol/, regardless of how far of a stretch it may be

Wait since when does tumblr come here?

>>147095517
I'm fairly certain this isn't right