Why japanese suck so much at High Fantasy?

>>146955811
Same problem with every other japanese writer : no culture, limited social experience.

>>146955811
It's a bad genre.

>>146955811
Go away /tg/.

>>146955811
They usually go after European fantasy which obviously ends up being shit due to them knowing nothing about it

>>146955811
I doubt Tolkien would be all that good at writing about yokai either.

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>>146955811
Rance is b gud

>>146955811
It's more of an accessibility issue IMO. They stick to non creative generic fantasy so people don't have to spend time remembering new shit.

Same reason why they have to explain shit with RPG mechanics instead of some proper world building lore.

>>146955811
Try reading Japanese web novels. Some bad, some really bad.
Also most of the Japanese literature are stuck at either fantasy or romance.

I dunno, the pieces that actually take place in japan or japan inspired settings are alright.

There's also Berserk, Dungeon Meshi, Slayers, Lodoss, etc.

>>146955811
Creative issues

Every fantasy I've seen from them seems like they used early console video games as their inspiration, and feel like it was written by a 21 year old neet who watches too much porn and has a miserable, lonely life he's trying to escape by making his own wish fulfilment fan fic.

The west is the birthplace of high fantasy (elves, orcs, wizards, etc) because those things are based on old legends and folklore; when people did honestly believe that the deep, dark forests were inhabited by mystic human-like creatures and that their ancestors' spirits lived in the forests and rivers.

The best japanese fantasy are the ones that take after their own folklore.

>>146955811
Define "high fantasy".

>>146956673
Touhou?

>>146956180
Too bad that it's too fckin gud for the normies

>>146956673
Exactly that. Every one of them tried too hard by thinking "maybe if I make something similar, I can get famous as them."

>>146955811

>Bitch about high fantasy
>Post one of the few good high fantasy manga properties (anime is ass though)

Also if you hate schoolgirls and giant robots, then you're proly not going to like Japanese fantasy in general

>>146955811
The elements of high fantasy aren't rooted into their culture like they are in the west. Compare this with, say, cyberpunk. Japan was the technology capital of the world for a long time and it makes sense to extend that out into something like Ghost in the Shell.

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Both Japanese and western fantasy borrow elements from LOTR and D&D.

But there is a basic difference, at least in western fantasy they try to actually incorporate those elements into the work. You have generic elves, or generic orcs but those elves have an actual role to play on the setting. In Japanese fantasy those things are kind of there but don't have any purpose aside of "look, its an elf!".

Although is not that they can't come with their good settings that work when they try like Druaga, Garou or Tears to Tiara for example.

So I guess is not a creative problem

>>146956807
That's from the anime version though.

Also its not a manga property it was a co-writen novel that become a LN that become several mangas that become an anime

>>146956869
>Japan was the technology capital of the world
hahahahahahaha

>>146957303
You can't deny that's the popular conception of Japan in the West, regardless of the actual facts.

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>Fantasy anime
>It's actually an MMO anime

>>146955811
There's no real issue with high fantasy, it's mostly things being adjusted, trimmed, and brought into line along the way (like how anime and manga/LN versions of the same material differ so much).

>Why japanese suck so much at High Fantasy?
Because it's all isekai/morepig shit

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Maoyu's ending was pretty good except that Old Man is dead and Female Magician was sealed away for eternity

>>146959763
Oh, the manga ended? How it ends?

Hero marries Maou and have a child or something?

Also, what happened to Dragon Princess and Knight?

>>146959763

Don't tell me the manga ended. I'm still waiting for scans after all these months.

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>>146959811
Yeah, Akira Ishida's version (the best version) just finished in August.

Ending, part 1:
Hero, Maou, and Female Knight go up the stairs to where the goddess or whatever is, the origin of the whole Demon-Hero conflict. Female Magician is powering the stairs up to the top, I believe.

However, the Archbishop, who is trying to gain Hero and Maou's powers or something, killed the Old Man/Archer and catches up to them on the stairs. Female Knight stays behind to fight him while the other two go on ahead. Female Magician uses some forbidden power to give Female Knight an advantage at the cost of her own life, since she would have to be sealed away. Female Knight kills the Archbishop but is dealt a near-fatal blow herself.

Meanwhile, on the surface, Elder Sister Maid confronts Royal Prince Marshall for one last time. Determined to see the conflict to a peaceful end, she approaches him with the holy key that the expedition was started for. Since both armies witnessed her handing him the artifact, he has no choice but to concede.

>>146955811
I think it's because high fantasy is escapist shit for autistic manchildren.

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>>146960006
Scans have been out for a while. Volume 18 (last volume) got scans a little while ago. I'm waiting for BookWalker Global to release the English versions, they're still on volume 16.

>>146960018
Ending, part 2

The Lily Knight Captain tries to assassinate Elder Sister Maid, but her shot falls short and the Blue Ash King calls her off. She notices his mortal wound and yells at him for pushing himself so much (not to mention that it's suggested her forces had tried to assassinate him as well). But he doesn't care, as long as he can confess one last time that he loves her. He dies in her arms and she kills herself to be with him.

Hero and Maou make it to the top of the stairs, meet the girl and let her reunite with her man, and end the Demon King-Hero system that has gone on for centuries. A huge bird of light flies down from the stairs and swoops over the continent, symbolizing peace or something like that. The room fills with light as Hero and Maou are taken to their "other side of the hill."

I can't remember the endings all too well, but Elder Sister Maid set up a school back in the village the story started out in and became famous. Younger Sister Maid became a world renowned chef. Dragon Princess took over for her father after he died. Archer was buried in the royal garden of the Winter Kingdom. Head Maid returned to the mansion and lived the rest of her days there. Female Magicians books are still being published, even though she has gone missing (due to being sealed away). Hero, Maou, and Female Knight also vanished after the final battle.

Meanwhile, Hero and Maou find themselves in another land. They are soon joined by Female Knight, who was also awarded for her efforts by being sent to the new land with them. The three of them decide to go on another adventure together.

The end.

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>>146960295

The end of the volume also had some special illustrations, like this one from toi8 (the light novel illustrator).

>>146960357
Why is all that meat so useless?

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>>146960357
Another special illustration. I believe this is by the artist of the Overlord manga.

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>>146960396
You haven't seen the real useless meat special illustration yet.

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>>146960420
Another special illustration (there were 6 total). It's also the only one that doesn't feature Maou in any way.

>>146960295

As far as fantasy endings go, that's okay. The world learns to evolve without its would be rulers of all, and the true winners get to go to heaven.

Now there needs to be more medieval fantasy economics starting waifu triangles.

Because ultimately they throw in some chuuni shit which japanese think is cool and don't care if it's COMPLETELY out of place.

>so we have this D&D fantasy world
>and everybody uses swords and shields and plate mail and shit
>except for this one guy who wears a TRON suit and flies around in a giant robot

>>146960539

You're misunderstanding the issue you disagree with. You basically don't like their cultural tastes. That's OK because ultimately a Japanese product has to cater first to Japanese customers. See Sacred Blacksmith, where the author injected rape into the story for MC character progression and the entire fanbase revolted and left for the exits.

>>146957761
Easier to self-insert this way.

>>146955811
i think it has a lot to do with them being just terrible at incorporating any sort of gritty elements into their high fantasy works

that's not to say that a prerequisite for good high fantasy, but it arguably benefits from it

>>146960539

Don't go to Roll20.

>>146960612
Japanese are too insecure about everything so yeah.

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>>146960505
Maoyu's character interactions were probably some of the best parts. Between Maoyu and Log Horizon, I feel like Maoyu did it better, but then again Maoyu is also shorter than LH.

Especially Maou/Female Knight and Elder Sister Maid. I didn't go in expecting Elder Sister Maid to be one of my favorites, but after volume 16, she's definitely one of the best characters in Maoyu.

>>146955811
lodoss stuffs were kinda okay....

>>146960655

And we're any better at it? Look at our popular gritty fantasy series as of late. Game of Thrones is literally Retards and Orgies. Witcher is literally just not happy fantasyland where a lot of nonconsensual intercourse transpires. If you count Avatar as fantasy, Korra went the usual comic book routine of a hero falling off for a while.

Rampant sex, people acting stupid, and characters who start off big but then go broke. That's our gritty fantasyshit.

>>146960711

LH is more of a setting, whereas Maou is more of an epic. They both excel at what they do.

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They don't, pic related is masterpiece

It's not like OP could do better.

>>146960888
Can somebody help me out? There was a name for this fallacy, but I forgot it.

>>146960439

>Illustrated by Fujima Takuya
>It actually doesn't have the "typical round-ish eyes" that he usually draws

Not sure how I should feel about this

>>146960655
I actually feel the opposite. Most of the times when I see their works they are too obsessed with world settings and creative little details that derail the main story. Plus the character interactions and motives are often cliche as hell.

>>146960295
So the three get to have fun together for the rest of their lives, cute.

>>146961036

Maou had a child with Fate Testerossa?

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They didn't used to

>>146960655
>>146961058

Wrong anon, sorry.

>>146961058

That's because for setting driven stories, that's what interests the authors the most. But readers don't want to read about the fates of nations and armies, they want to read about people. I know I do. If I wanted the former, I wouldn't look for that in a Japanese manga but instead in the latest issue of Horus Heresy

>>146955811
Because you're making a generalization after only having watch 2 or 3 anime adaptations of harem light novels.

>>146961084

The saga of the hero ends, but the saga of the sexhero has only just begun

>>146956698

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=High+fantasy

>>146956180
Rance is fantasy but not high fantasy

>>146961233
Reminds me of that one Maoyu doujin that ends with Maou and Female Knight both having children with Hero. The last page has their children holding hands with Hero and the woman that isn't their mom. It was cute.

>>146961101
>>146961101
Little Princess is a fair bit old than either of those series

>>146955811
>why can't ESL into english?
>[ ] Do you think is for creative issues? (They just suck)
>[ ] Do you thin is for corporate issues? (Editors won't let ESL be good)

>>146955811
Because:
- boring stories that more often than not ultimately deal with defeating some "evil for the sake of evil" villain.
- they star these safe, paladin-esque main characters who are easy to self insert into and often don't face much trouble in terms of their battles, both the physical and metaphysical ones. They probably fight with a fucking sword, too.
- and like your image suggests, they're inundated with waifus, bearing the same traits you'd see if the anime was set in a high school, and unnecessary amounts of fanservice because anime is mostly watched by teenage boys looking to give their dingle a tingle.

Some good ones still exist, though.

>>146961185
I think this is one of the hard parts of writing a high fantasy. You have to have a detailed world building, you also have to have good character developments. It's easier to do both in a novel or game as there's pretty much unlimited room for that. Difficult to balance both in visual media like animation.

>>146961613

Manga and anime run on tight budgets and unforgiving profit margins. Also partly why for every good one, there are at least 10 generic battle harem.

>>146961580
>"evil for the sake of evil" villain

I think the opposite is quite cliche these days. Now if you see a character acting like an edgy asshole for no reason you can bet your ass there will be some sob story behind that.

>>146961848

More often than these days, the edgy MCs only look edgy and are maligned because they act individualistic like a Westerner.

>>146961918
Yeah if they are going the nothing personnel route for MC they often don't need a background.

But for villains you rarely see characters like Dio anymore.

>>146962064

I blame that on Code Geass. It's much more appealing to see a know-it-all villain who is 10 steps ahead. It's also easier to write a villain that way. Same reason why we've been getting awful villains lately, like the buttmad prince in Kabaneri.

i liked the maoyu anime but christ is the novel poorly written.

not like the content of the story just the actual way the book is written is unreadable

never actually bothered to read the manga but it's apparently over now so i might

>>146960788
>Witcher is literally just not happy fantasyland where a lot of nonconsensual intercourse transpires.
You never read the books did you?

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>>146962344
The novel gets extremely wordy, which can be annoying at times. But since all the manga condense the novel and cut out characters, I'll probably read the translation of volume 5 once it's completed.

Akira Ishida's manga is the only way to go. All the others aren't worth talking about due to how much they cut out. BookWalker Global has the volumes in English but I don't think there's a way to rip from them anymore.

>>146962554
I'm fine with wordiness but the last i checked the novel is written as

Maoyu: Words
Hero: Words
Maoyu: Words
Hero: Words
Action
Maoyu: Words
Hero: Words

and that shit's fucking unreadable in an actual book

>>146962615

If you can read Shakespeare, you can read anything

>>146962448

Sometimes there's consensual intercourse, too

>>146962655
There's a difference between a written play and what's supposed to be a normal story.

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>>146962655
>reading Shakespeare
lmao

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>>146960852
Japan does well when they separate from videogame inspirations. Even when they do "western" fantasy. Just look at Arslan or Guin Saga.

But the anime industry is not very friendly with that sort of fantasy.

>>146955811

Limited access to weed.

>>146961058
That's cause when we see an anime we only see the beginning of the story, in the novels and web novels they have to make everything fast, present the character fast, present the world fast and present the gimmicks and unique traits fast.

The story can come later, the important thing is getting the basics done, they dont have time for creating a setting or presenting the characters in detail like western fantasy does.

I'm pretty sure our perception of Japanese fantasy would improve a lot if we got adaptations of entire stories, or at least a decent part of the story, rather than adaptations of a couple of volumes.

Since we are basically struck with the prologues there is no way we can come to like it.

>>146961848
Japan only knows two types of main character, the good guy that is kinder than anyone despite all his faults and the edgelord filled with darkness that is actually kinder than anyone.

>>146965411

>But the anime industry is not very friendly with that sort of fantasy.

This isn't just exclusive to anime industry, or Japan, it's pretty much a money issue. If you want to have a larger potential audience you always want to play it safe, so there will be only minor deviations from conventions in high budget movies, games and such.
Some video game developer explained that if you want to have a historical setting, it's always going to be romans vs barbarians, disney middle age or WW2. If you go for anything else it means the potential customer with less than high school education is unfamiliar with it.

And the high budget stuff obviously trickles down in influence, since most people will be introduced to different genres by the popular works. And since most people aren't exactly well read, a lot of the indie works end up being as generic as high budget stuff even if it doesn't have the same sort of limitation in marketability.

>>146966260
i kind of like ainz's character

he's sort of "evil but actually nice" but he's not an actual goody goody and will vigorously shit on something if he thinks it's offensive

>>146966521

I dunno, a lot of time Ainz isn't even all that nice. He's just kind of a dude, both slightly more self serving and slightly more generous than average at different times.

He's nice to people he knows but everyone can fuck off, it seems.

The problem of posters like OP is that they compare the best the west can offer in the genre with basically the worst the east can offer.

>>146966981
While it seems mostly for the purpose of "if any of my friends show up they'll see i was a good leader" he seems "nice" most of the time.

He didn't really know enri or anyone in carne and he was pretty nice to them and protected them, and after he was asked by jirciv to shit on the kingdom he's taken good care of e-rantel.

Lizards was kind of dickish if you look at it from a 'good' moral stand point but even that wasn't that bad.

He even went to visit his good friend during a sporting event, how thoughtful of him.

>>146955811
More often than not they focus too much on the mcs instead of world building, which is the entire basis of fantasy settings.

>>146956224
Berserk, like A Song of Fire and Ice, is considered "low" fantasy, not "high" fantasy.

Western high fantasy is 99.9999% literary garbage. Wish-fulfillment self-insert tropefests that rip off Tolkien and D&D and present no new ideas at all. You'll note this applies to popular shit like A Wheel of Time.

In terms of decent Western living high fantasy authors you've got Brandon Sanderson and literally no one else. (Terry Goodkind? lolno) High fantasy authors are. just. so. bad.

Japanese high fantasy might be shit too, but that's kind of par for the course.

>>146967069

That and we only get a fraction of the content Japan gets when it's about manga, not to mention novels.

>>146967385
>Low fantasy is good because it's "realistic" and edgy
wew lad

>>146967347
>>146955811
Oh and of course I forgot to mention, most of the time said mcs are as generic as possible, if not straight up your average high school japanese student brought to a different world, and every other minimally influential mc is either a waifu or a straight up stereotype from the 5 man band trope, because god forbid we try to do something new and interesting.

>>146955811
Because your only exposure to Japanese literature is through garbage LN adaptations of garbage web novels. It's like only reading c-grade romance novels translated by some random dude who can speak at the level of a middle schooler and wondering why Americans suck so much at writing.

>>146967565
david foster wallace is legitimately awful tho

>>146967434
No, most low fantasy is shit too, it just has the benefit of having a few more actually good living authors than high fantasy at the moment.

>>146968250
genre fiction is awful by definition

>>146968298

>>>/lit/

>>146967425
And what they get is often in the form of short anime adpations.

>>146967565
>Because your only exposure to Japanese literature is through garbage LN adaptations of garbage web novels.
Actual Japanese literature isn't particularly great and inspiring, either. Recently we've had an example in Everything Becomes F, which was thoroughly mediocre with the possible exception of the title. Even if you go and read a classic like The Woman in the Dunes, most people would find it sort of boring too. So I suspect it's not the medium and not the problem with a few cherry-picked examples, but rather a more general cultural issue.

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>>146960018
best Maou

>>146967385
>Berserk, like A Song of Fire and Ice, is considered "low" fantasy, not "high" fantasy.

I disagree in both cases.

Beserk was never low fantasy NEVER. Both the fantasy elements and the epicness of the quest were high from the very beginning. With the horror elements you could argue its Dark Fantasy instead of High Fantasy, but low fantasy? Never.

Song of Fire and Ice...I guess I'll have to agree partially and call it "low fantasy"...for now, but I think its obvoious since long ago that is not a pure low fantasy either since the fantasy elements are being introduced gradually but is bccoming high as it progresss.

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What about Mononoke?

>>146966260
Saitama?

>>146969010

Not high fantasy, takes place in Japan.

>>146968943
I just meant Berserk has relatively fewer fantasy elements, I was not trying pass judgement about Guts' goals. ASoIaF is kind of the posterchild for low fantasy.

>>146956111
>implying western fantasy writers know anything about it