Why is the church always the bad guy?

>>146389124
Easy to explain from a western perspective, by why the Japanese cling onto this is beyond me.

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>>146389124
Cause religion is cancer.

>>146389124
Atheists.

>>146389124
To mirror real life.

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>no new Chapter in ages

>>146389124
Look up Amakusa Shiro.

All of these "why is * always *" can be answered with "Lazy writing".

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>>146389124
its a mystery

>>146389418
/thread

>>146389124
because western religion has been seen as cultural imperialism by them. the nips are quite the xenophobic lot

>>146389124
This is something I always found amusing, because... you know, angels being the bad ones and main characr being "evil" is so meta right now than when a devil is the bad guy and the angels are good guys it feels almost like a deconstruction.

>>146390496
It actually is...

>>146391315
I agree...

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>>146391315
This is what happens with fantasy in general too, we had so many fantasy works with twist that now we even have twists on the twists of the twists to the point that when a work plays straight it even feels "original".

Jesus, I swear I've seen more parodies, pseudoparodies and twist fantasy works than actual fantasy works.

>>146389124
Source, please?

Heathens.

>>146393141

7th Garden

>>146393141
You literally just google the name in the panel. Damn plebs on this board.

>>146389326
Because the christians tried to fuck over the japanese culture, that is why the japanese government tried hard on to eradicate christians from their island.
Monotheistic religions are the cancer of humanity.

Demons were whispering to Japanese people since for the long time. And well, they are still whispering to their ears. Nothing has really changed. Blasphemers will burn eternally,.

>>146389124
Real answer: it's an easy monolithic antagonist for the protagonist to struggle against. If you have something like an Evil Prince or whatever, then all you have to do is get rid of the prince; because The Church is so large, it can't just be Friendshiped away, or taken out in one blow. The struggle is real. Also, having individual enemies that are enemies because of belief is a powerful motivation for said enemies (especially enemies that aren't evil themselves), but yet allows Friendshipping. And since it's (generally) not the actual government of whatever fantasy land, but usually is controlling anyway, that makes it especially evil. The Evil Empire is the same sort of thing, if the protagonist is from one of the conquered lands.
Japs also have a relatively high trust in government in general, so having an Evil Government is unusual. Corrupt, sure, with evil people, but the government itself is good, and just taking out the corrupt/evil parts will make things OK.

>>146391315
Biblical angels weren't especially good guys to be fair.

>>146396319
But they were, in God's POV

>>146397009
Old Testament's God is a dick.
New Testament's God is a hippie.

>>146398025
To be fair, Old Testament's God told them to not do something and humans went ahead and did it anyway. I mean, what did you honestly expect when humanity constantly defy his relatively few commands?

>>146399033
why create humans with the ability to do something and then tell them not to and punish them for it.

>>146389124
Because the church is notoriously evil in real life too.

>>146393538
>Monotheistic religions

*strictly organized monotheistic religions are cancer

>>146396319
>>146397009
>>146398025
>>146399033
>>146399215
Actually God punished the Angels that were truly human friendly and even married human women.

Any Angel that slept with a human woman and raised the child with her was casted out of Heaven.

True fact.

Also, God also punished the child or descendants born between an Angel and a Human.

He made humans kill the half angel half humans.

A good example would be David and Goliath.

So God punished the Angel fathers and ensured Angel DNA would be removed from the human population.

>>146399689
God is a bitchass cunt, thankfully he's dead.

>>146393538
>Civilizing Orientals
>Wrong
Stay mad, heathen scum.

>>146399215
Judgement, salvation, soul are corollaries to free will.

>Asking questions answered thousands of years ago

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>Trust me guys I'm an Angel

>>146389124
Because suspension of disbelief can only go so far.

I'd like to see a story where the world's God reaches out to the MC and has him dismantle his religion on earth because its gotten so corrupted it can't just be fixed, it has to be rooted and started afresh.
The Church is evil, but the God is good.

>>146399689
We could have top qt half angels today, but no, he had to ruin everything.

>>146400280
Yes

And he gets 4 hot angels as a harem to help him do it

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>>146400346
You know not what you ask.

>>146389124
History.

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>>146400553
Try to read a book sometime. An actual history book, not the God Delusion.

The church has a dirty history, but at times it was the only thing keeping society together.

>>146400139
This 2bh
Also, reminder that fucking infidels is basically the same as fucking an animal and you'll go to hell for it

>>146389124
Well Church are the good guys in 007 Ghost

>>146400201
Actually that's what angels looked like in the Bible

>>146400828
The higher ranking the Angel you were, the more weirder you looked.

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>tfw no anime about cute crusaders slaughtering infidels and doing cute things in the name of the Lord
Life is suffering

>>146389124

Its a fetish of the japanese, the light representing evil. Just look at Berserk or DarkSouls.

>>146400553
Christianity has done more good then harm for humanity

Because it's easy to do from a design perspective.
The church is a huge organization with lots of rituals and weird symbols, which lends itself quite nicely to creating a shady organization.

Also, because it's a trope. At least half of the "why is x in anime" questions can be answered with that. Anime is giant clusterfuck of tropes , trope reverses and clever "twists" that keeps building on itself and is actually quite far removed from historical or cultural backgrounds.

>>146400674
Roman pride was one of the few things that could be argued as being the most damaging to mankind ever. Just think how advanced their society was for their time and how the world would be if they had some altruism instead.

Now think about where all that pride went. When they were falling apart they walked over the dead body of the true Christians to sequestrate Cristianism, bending it to their whims, to use as a replacement. Only recently their new empire has started to dwindle, and look at what an empire it has been so far.

>>146399689
>God was a dick

Tell me something we didn't know already

>>146389124
Friendly reminder that it is McArthur puritan wife wife who make the foundation of Japanese censorship laws. All Abrahamic religion is evil in its final form

>>146401024
Did you miss one season and a half of Arslan?

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>>146400890
Just like what Bayonetta taught me.

>>146389124
Japan never had to deal with muslims so they don't know any better (or worse, rather)

Buddhism is the only correct religion in Japan, any other religion is evil.

>>146393538
Actually, it's more like Japan has had it's fair share of 'you're worshipping the wrong things, do it properly!'
It started with propagation of Shinto, worming out the existent faiths and gods so that people believed in the gods that the Emperor was supposed to be descended from.
Then the Buddhists came and told them the Kami were evil spirits unable to escape their karma, and that they should follow the teachings of Buddha.
Then Jesuits show up and you can guess that much
Then religious practise was heavily restricted during the Edo period. If you tried to follow pretty much anything other than the prescripted brand of Buddhism, you could probably be executed.
Then you have both Shintoism and Buddhism being used in propaganda during the Pacific War to justify Japanese expansionism
And now you generally have a very secular society who only practise religious rituals as tradition.

Basically, organised religion in Japan hasn't worked out well. The fact that material some people would consider sacriligious gets published a lot isn't that surprising.

>>146402079
Wait, no, I got the Edo part wrong. Buddhism was controled. Then the Meiji Restoration had Shintoism become the state religion and it was Buddhism that was supposed to be eradicated. Whoops.

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>>146389326
"WHAT?! HOW DARE YOU TELL US OUR EMPEROR ISN'T A DIRECT DECENDANT OF OUR GOD AMATERATSU?!

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>>146402079
>be godless heathen
>Jesuits show up to show you the light of God
>complain

>>146402581
But they had more gods than the Jesuits had to offer. Clearly it was a bad deal, turning that shit down was the right thing to do.

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>>146400201
Am I cute? Uguu~

>>146402646
A river isn't a real god

>>146402965
Neither is a bush that's on fire, though.

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>>146400201

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>>146403006
>old testament
Lel

>>146399033
> Ask a man to sacrifice his son to him.
> lol, jk

>>146403376
it wouldn't be a test if the sacrifice wasn't worth anything to abraham

>>146402581
You know America made sure that Christianity would never have a major presence in Japan, right?

This is because during WW2, America ended up nuking pretty much the entire Christian population in Japan since Nagasaki and Hiroshima contained the largest amount of Japanese Christians in all of Japan by sheer ironic coincidence.

Imagine the most Christian country in the world at the time aka America nuking the most heavily Christian part of Japan.

>>146403376
Then there's the whole Job thing.

>>146403244
>Old Testament
>Not canon
Even Luther included it in his bible, don't bother him about it.

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I get them being the evil guys but its necessary the psyco part?

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>No mention of best girl anywhere in the thread
For shame, /a/.

>>146403787
Why would Ciel kill Index?

>>146400139

That explains nothing, how is a soul a corollary to free will, and why couldn't he simply give us free will but design our personalities so that we generally wouldn't want to defy him? God individually created each and every person right? So why do certain people lean more towards christianity than others or put certain people in situations where they're more likely to accept him? Why does he play favorites?

>>146394812
It's literally this. An authority to oppose for the main characters is pretty normal and it being a religious sect makes it easy to justify zealous enemies and certain cliches like evil priests etc.

>>146399689
>Angel DNA
Get out of here, Anno.

>>146393538
t. neckbeard fedora

>>146404021
The basic problem behind this is believing we were created at the beginning of this current life. We are the results of our own efforts across the ages from the time we were equals in simplicity and ignorance.

>>146404021
>This is actually explained in the Bible
>He will just continue to ignore this and look at atheist sites that cherry pick scripture
wew

>>146404511

So you're saying God is cool with people born later getting fucked over by their ancestors, or are you implying reincarnation?

The first is retarded as nobody is responsible for the glories or sins of their forefathers, the second is inconsistent with the Bible.

>>146404662

please feel free to point out where the explanation is then, or sum it up if you don't feel like grabbing it

Where do these Christian roleplayers even come from? Being on the internet, on 4chan of all things sounds pretty sacrilegious to me

>>146404936
OT
God chose the jews
He explains this is both a privilege and burden. That they will be blessed with success but also be hated because of this by many people.
He gives them the law.
The law is only applies to Jews and circumcision is proof of following the law. Non-jews are not bound by the law because God has not yet shown himself to them but become bound to the law if they become Jews and get circumcised.

NT
Jesus says that his death and resurrection will take away the old law because the Jews couldn't keep the law and that believing in him will save both Jew and non-Jew.
he says that humans have free will and if they don't want to hear let them go their own way and kick the dust from your feet as you leave.
Circumcision is no longer needed because it symbolised the contract of the old law. Jews can keep getting circumcised because it's considered tradition but non-jews don't need to get circumcised
He explains what good is it if you get circumcised but still break the law.
That you should be circumcised in your heart. And that good non-Jews will be considered more worthy than Jews who break the law even though they are God's chosen.
He also commands his followers to spread the word.
That salvation is for all not just the Jews but everyone

>>146405706
They're (You)-whores, obviously.
Everyone knows actual Christianity is punishable by death under the rule of grorious Lord Hiroshima.

>>146405706
It makes sense you think this but they are commanded to spread the Word of God and to go to places were it is needed.

Preaching to the good is okay but ultimately that the ones who need it most are those living in sin.
Prostitutes, drug addicts, prisoners and assorted others considered drudges of society

>>146389124
because historical church is evil. before reformation church massacred tons of people because heretic. in spain muslims got genocided crusades was disaster..

>>146405937
I highly doubt they came to /a/ just to talk about Christian dogma
The on here for all we know could have just been dicking around in a re:zero or harem anime thread a while ago

>>146406038
They are mostly on /pol/, /lit/ and /his/
But others spread out over some other boards

>>146405706

Christfags in general are insufferable.

>>146405721

this answered literally nothing and is just basic Bible 101

>>146389124
Because they use religion to control people and they rape little boys

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>>146406140
That would be militant atheist
Even other atheist hate those guys

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2012/nov/09/confessions-of-an-internet-troll

>I enjoy trolling atheists. I'm an atheist myself, but arguing with the religious is infuriating, draining and it actually hurts my head. Atheists always seem to come out of religious arguments worse, in terms of how much it ruins their day. I fancied switching sides, for a laugh, and so I tweeted, "It's such a shame that athiests will never know true love. #atheism."

>Look at the misspelling of "atheists" – what pedant could possibly resist that bait? Not many, and I must have had a dozen catches almost straight away. You know the type. Militants. Wanks. The type that have "atheist" in their bio, like anybody gives a fuck. The type that searches for #atheist on Twitter. And I argued with a handful of them simultaneously for close to an hour, giggling like a schoolboy as I typed, "Your going too hell!" They didn't know whether to go after the religious debate or the grammar. It was hilarious.

>>146405721
That's not really a proof that shows the axioms needed and goes in the direction of the statement

>>146406191
It answered your question
You just refuse to accept it

Because you dont "feel" like grabbing it remember?
>>146404936

>>146406268
According to who?
You? By what authority?

>>146406121
/lit/ is liberal central
/pol/ is just filled with memesters now
/his/ is too new to have harbored new christposters since they've been around before them but also has it the worst

>>146404716
Even if it were inconsistent, are you believing things because they are in a book instead of thinking for yourself? You believe we will reincarnate by the end of times then? How long theologians have debated about this and other things like eternal punishments, purgatory and so on? For starters, is there one hell and one heaven? Has the world been created 4000 years go by the way? Only one man and one woman were the root of humanity? How many religions believe in it compared to the ones who do not?

Besides, what did the original Christians from before the roman bible believe in?

Try to think by yourself for a change.

>>146406254
>>146406140
People who keep their religious opinions to themselves > faggots who won't shut the fuck up about it (also trolls who just shitpost for the hell of it regardless of what they actually believe).

Those are the only tiers that actually matter.

>>146406416
All have Christian generals

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>>146391326
This is the reason why western world is falling from degeneracy. You actually deserve this. Damn I hope you faggots will suffer more

>>146393538
>christians tried to fuck over japan
>the jap government were first to behead christians
>the spics nor the portuguese disnt even do anything to retaliate

Yeah right "muh kkkristian opreshun"

>>146406437
The irony of this post
>cult of reason
>calles law
>league of the militant godless
>red guard
>khmer rouge
>juche
>atheism plus

>>146406390
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

All proofs start with axioms both parties agree on and then get used to prove that a statement must be true.

You just dumped a bunch of lore, with the same authority as a Harry Potter book.

In logic the source (bible, or some Dawkins book) does not have power, only the proofs within. A collection of stories can be riveting, but it isn't particularly convincing. It's just rhetoric.

Now, there is not yet an axiom that is universally true that can be used to derive all truths, so most things a person knows are beliefs. You can try to appeal this way, but you'll have to try not to be a fag, first.

>>146406609
Why are these particular cases an irony to the post? Keeping up with the thread topic, most eastern religions believe in reincarnation one way or the other, from their point of view the Romans are the heretical ones.

Besides, real irony is calling something inconsistent with bible while defending that "nobody is responsible for the glories or sins of their forefathers".

>>146394812
Essentially this. The Church™ (whichever flavor you might prefer) has always been the authority in just about any country and as such every fight against it automatically makes their opponent the underdog. It is easier to attack a faceless organization than actual people, and the Church is quite possibly the best target for such a depiction, since it's existed for the better part of two millennia. Corporations are a good second place thanks to how hard companies like Nestlé and the military-industrial complex have been pursuing and defending "their interests" at the cost of the common people.

Sidenote: Those meme >Muh religun is ebil :^) replies are as cancerous as they get, since they do not address the reason why they're such a potent "enemy figure" and simply reduce it down to their own dislike for it.

Because it's realistic.

PS: god, gods, heaven, limbo, hell, souls, demons, satan, holy spirit, spirit, chakra, possessions, none of that is real
PS2: all the scientific progress and religion-inspired art/architecture in human history happened despite religion, not because of it

Have a nice day *unzips fedora*

>>146406603
conviniently ignoring all the shit missionary did where ever they appeared

>>146403787
Type Moon characters doesn't need much reasons to kill innocents bystanders or even really good people

>>146408445
MEant to quote >>146403969

>>146408309
Like?

And no, please give valid sources from actual recorded Jesuit letters or legit literature, not wikipedia links nor propaganra websites

>>146408445
>>146408481
Yeah, but Index is an instrument of the Church, just like her. It doesn't really make sense.

Is this another Fedora echo-chamber thread that only knows about Christianity and Judaism through SMT, and thinks its 100% accurate?

Talking about religion always brings out those types immediately.

>>146399689
Pretty sure that's apocryphal(ironically just like most thinks people think are in the Bible but really aren't, since a lot of bullshit has gotten mixed in over the years)

>>146408728
Nah, I was raised Anglican and we needed to know at least the essentials from the Bible in primary school.

These threads are still full of faggotry though.

>>146401414
>>146394812
Pretty much this. It has to do with convenience of storytelling, not the Japs supposed hatred of Christianity, which is unfounded considering there's been eight christian prime ministers throughout modern japans history.

>>146408687
If I remember well Index is a dirty protestant from England. Not catholic.

>>146409243
Pretty sure The Church in TM doesn't actually distinguish between denominations.
Either way, Ciel doesn't just murder whoever happens to be standing around, she isn't Anderson. She elimates vampires and demons and that's pretty much it.

>>146389124
Ask the Catholics

Because edge sells to teens.