In the greater scope of the Nasuverse, is Kayneth all that? He

I just think he was horrible at strategy, his mage skills are incredible though, possibly surpassing the Tohsaka house.

>>145897484
He was one of the best mages from the most prestigious families. So from a "Ground Up" perspective yeah, he's hot shit.

"Greater scope of the Nasuverse" is a problematic angle though. because that scope includes Servants, Dead Apostle Ancestors, True Magicians, Types, and Void!Shiki. Compared to all that Fast Wheels-kun is trash, but then again so are 99% of the characters

Aside Bazett, he was probably one of the strongest mages.
Remember he got Alexander stolen from him and he honestly might have won if he never lost the relic.
He only got rent thanks to Kiritisugu's hax bullets.

I just wish he would've stalemated Tohsaka so we could actually see a traditional fight between mages. All the fights we've ever seen are exceptions to a 'normal' which is never actually shown to us.

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>>145897484

He was a top tier magic scientist and teacher. Not a battle mage.

Nasu said that Illya was a much better and more powerful magus.

Also, Kayneth's imouto is better than him.

>>145898149
>he honestly might have won
against kerry or gil? no

>>145898390

Gil lost to much weaker enemies already. And Kerry would stand no chance if this dumb fag took him seriously.

>>145898457
>And Kerry would stand no chance if this dumb fag took him seriously.
It would have been harder, but if you remember, Kerrytugu's whole schtick is killing Magi.

>>145898516

Thanks to shit writing and magi being written as retards.

>>145898390
I think Nasu? said that if he used Diarmuid in a specific way he'd have won

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Literally a fucking nothing compared to the actual top tier of mages in Nasuverse.

>>145898457
Gil loses to weaker enemies that happen to have the perfect trump card against him.

>>145898387
Illya had more raw power especially in Fuyuki but nasu also said that magi like Kayneth or Tokiomi would just cut her off from the land to defeat her. Illya has shittons of raw power but Kayneth is a lot of power with a lot of skill.

>>145898149
Keeping Alexander would have fucked him over even more. He would not tolerate his shit and have been forced to use seals just to keep him in check

>>145898576
It's also said in the material that gil could have won the war in one night

>>145898576

He did.

Kayneth is just a typical example of "I'm so great" character written in a way that makes him fail miserably so fags and losers can feel good about the mean asshole getting fucked hard.

>>145897694
Exactly.
>How should I defeat my opponent, an assassin who specializes in killing magi?
>I know! I'll walk through the front door of his house, announce my presence, and challenge him to a duel!

>>145897484
His issue, like that of almost everybody in Zero and SN, was that he got to fight against his "natural enemies".

Kayneth was an upfront guy. 1v1 battles wouldn't have been an issue. If he had fought against Shirou, he'd have trashed him.

But then he got to fight against Kerry who, surprise, was his natural counter due to being a stealthy fuck with gadgets.

The Nasuverse is less about how strong you are but more about which enemies you fight and what your compatibility with them is.

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>>145898599
>nasu also said that magi like Kayneth or Tokiomi would just cut her off from the land to defeat her

No.

He said they could maybe win if they did it.

Looking as how fucking stupid they acted in the series they would just face her in a honorabru magi duel and die in 10 seconds.

>>145898663
and Gil "could have" won against Shirou if he wasn't retarded and wore armor

Could Tokiomi beat Kayneth in a 1v1 final destination?

>>145897694

He was better than Rin's retarded dad. But Rin had more talent than him. Duel between them would be interesting.

>>145898694
Considering how this is the founding principle of every fight in the franchise, it sure is amazing just how many stupid faggots latch onto "MUH POWERLEVELS" and ignore all talk of anything otherwise

>>145898831

No. Melloi is more powerful and has advantage vs fire users.

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>>145898844
Adolescent Tohsaka vs. Kayneth wouldn't be a fair matchup. Kayneth is too strong for her since she's still in training and also destitute and lacking the materials her family uses in their magic.

Adult Rin would be a much more interesting fight, though the odds would be all but reversed from when she was a kid.

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>>145898694

It has more to do with bad writing really.

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Was pic related overall as dumb and weak as he seemed when his strategy against a magus was to throw bees at him

>>145897484
He's a good magus, but having skills at magic and being good at combat are totally different things. Kayneth got himself killed by assuming that all his opponents fought battles according to the rules he was used to.

>>145899067
Kariya was both dumb and weak, and it didn't help that the crest worms were driving him insane.

>>145898109
>>145898149
>Zelretch

>>145899067
I don't know how true it is but I've heard it claimed he was literally brain damaged by the time the war began, and he wasn't capable of brain functions high enough to develop proper strategies or, more importantly, just tell Tokiomi his daugher is in danger living with Zouken

When he walks into the Einzbern Mansion, encased in a living metal bubble, it sorta show cases it.

>>145898516
Kerries entire mage killer stick is literally bait and switch.
Do they have projectile shields?
Do they have E-D grade endurance reinforcement, to make them bullet prof?
Even if the answer is both of those questions are yes, all he do is to pull out the Luger and fire.

The only "mage killer" in his entire arsenal is that he bothers to trap, overkill with explosives, the special bullets and the barrier breaking.
And thats the problem. He is doomed if whatever he fights, fights back.

>>145899265
Zelretch is on a totally different level. Comparing a top-tier DAA and True Magician to a regular magus isn't even meaningful.

>>145898694
All Kayneth would need to overkill Kerry, is to change the modus of his Mercury sphere.
If it inherently was bullet prof, he wouldn't be so fucked.

>>145899276
That's the Matou family worms for you. Kariya was lucky to survive the implantation process at all.

>>145899386

Kerry vs Aoko, Lorelei or Alice would be absolutely hilarious.

>>145898974
Rin looks way better with her hair down. Long pigtails a shit.

>>145899265

Yeah, next let's make him fight Altrouge or ORT.

C'mon now anon.

>>145898974
>Touko: gem jew edition

Her series would be great.

>>145899276
Wouldn't those bees be a huge problem if they bit/stung someone though, I mean look at them.

>>145899590
It would make for a bizarre story. It'd pretty much come down to whether he could get the drop on them and sneak in a killer blow, since he wouldn't survive any direct confrontation.

>>145899738
Well sure, but he threw them at a guy whose specialty is WALLS OF FIRE

They're dangerous to regular humans. To an actual mage they're a joke.

>>145899025
Get in the fucking box !

>>145899791
This. Any mage who could set up a proper defensive barrier (i.e. any mage with basic competence) wouldn't need to fear the bug swarm. The Matou family bug magics aren't really that suited for open combat, anyways.

>>145899944

I can see him trying to fight someone like Alice and his bugs are just hitting a wall while she looks at him with that disappointed as fuck look of hers.

Totally unrelated, but does anyone know what relation the Types have to the Root? Also, does every planet have an Ultimate One?

>>145900111
>what relation the Types have to the Root?
Literally none, the Types don't come from Earth, and the Root is from Earth

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>>145897484

We already know at least dozens of magi who would completely rape him in combat. He's like Alba, top tier lab magi who's shit at real combat.

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So anyways, is Reines his sister? Cousin?

>>145900111
>does every planet have an Ultimate One?
Yes.

>>145900149

No you colossal moron, the Root is the origin of all existence in the universe.

Everything has its origin in the Root. This is true of every star, planet, and every lifeform on every planet.

>>145900286
His sister

>>145900111

Not every planet has an Ultimate One, Gaia does not because reasons so it had to 'borrow' the Moon's Ultimate One.

>>145900149
Different anon here, but what material do the Types actually show up in? I've played F/SN, F/HA, and Tsukihime, and watched F/Z and Kara no Kyoukai, and I'm wondering where to find all the expanded universe shit. I know there's a bunch of written side material, but I don't know where to start.

>>145900450

TYPEs are only in Notes.

>>145897694
>possibly surpassing the Tohsaka house
The Tohsaka are shit though. Only Rin is better than usual.

>>145900450
>>145900480
There's references to Crimson Moon in Tsukihime though, and he's a Type.

>>145900286
Is Lord El Melloi II Case Files good? Is anyone translating it?

>>145900286
According to the Fate/Apocrypha material, she's Kayneth's younger stepsister.

>>145900537
Well yeah, he's literally TYPE-MOON, the series' namesake.

>>145897484

Kayneth is a 9/10 magus with a 9/10 lineage and mystic code. Unfortunately his privileged (sheltered) upbringing left him conceited and without any real appreciation for what a 'war' really is.

In a Grail War with only other proper magi in it, he would perform excellently without a doubt. Unfortunately, Grail Wars are a joke and magus killers always seem to find their way into them.

He only learned the desperation and determination necessary to win after losing his magic circuits, and by then it was already too late for him.

>>145900561

Nips like it and I saw a lot of praise.

>>145900524
This. Before Rin, the Tohsaka house had a short history (by magus standards) and wasn't blessed with much talent. Their only claim to fame is that Zelretch was their founder's master.

Kayneth deserved better than a shit Servant, a shit fiancee and a shit delivery service.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csBZLd66Bow

>>145900524
>>145900711
Though it should be noted they weren't shit tier. They were just depressingly average. Zelretch viewed them as a family whom nobody notable would likely ever come

>>145900561
There's someone at Beast's Lair translating, I think. Not too sure on the details.

>>145900655
This. Kayneth doesn't have any exposure to the world outside of Clock Tower magus politics, so his assumptions about the Grail War were wrong to begin with.

>>145900711

Apparently anyone actually surviving their training with Zelretch is actually a major claim to fame, though. Zelretch liked him enough to give him the blueprints to his gem sword as 'homework', literally the chance to develop their own personal tool of the Second Magic.

Gave him a magic trunk that can contain infinite stuff in a pocket dimension too.

And a kaleidostick. But that was more of a prank.

Why the fuck does Pluto have a Type anyways? There are literally hundreds of Pluto sized dwarf planets in the Kuiper belt.

>>145900920
Pluto is a fucking planet stop triggering me

>>145900920
Well they might all have Types too.

Now if you wanted to ask me how anyone on earth knew where each Type came from once they saw them descending from the sky, I'd be at a loss.

>>145900317
Wait does that mean there's a nigh-infinite number of Types ?

>>145901024
Potentially. I mean there's nothing saying the sun doesn't have a Type, for example.

>>145901024

There are only as much as the traditional planets of the solar system (that means including Pluto). When Gaia died, it called for humanity to be wiped out as its last request to all the other planets, and they answered Gaia's call with their TYPEs, of which there are only 8-9.

>>145897484
If we're talking purely about Magi, he's more or less upper mid-tier. Taking Magicians like Zelretch and Aoko out of the equation, as well as Dead Apostles like Roa and Servants like Medea, Fastwheels is still inferior to the likes of:
>Willy Wonka
>Ciel
>A hypothetical future Rin who's reached the peak of her potential
>Barthomeloi Lorelei

In terms of sheer genius, he's also inferior to Sion (who, as an Alchemist, isn't quite the same kind of Magus as the others).

From a combat perspective, there are even more Magi who are better, but combat doesn't necessarily equate to one's rank as a Magus. Shirou could probably beat him, but he'll never be the better Magus.

There are also wild cards like Ilya, who isn't really a proper Magus since she functions somewhat differently from them.

Incidentally, while Willy Wonka is a very high tier Magus, apparently his combat compatibility against Fastwheels is poor.

>>145901006
It's not, get over it.

>>145901183

True Magicians aren't necessarily good magi though.

Aoko's fucking terrible, all she's good for is fight magecraft. Being a magus is about more than just being able to shoot big shiny beams around. Ironically that seems to be why Caster Medea is apparently the greatest threat to humanity out of all the Servants in the 5th HGW, she's on such a higher level than every other magus that even modern Magicians don't stand a chance against her.

>>145901006

>american education

>>145897484

Nasu is a hack. With that out of the way, I think he servers somehow as a foil to Shirou, in the sense that this guy is all magical studies and potential, the "correct" archmage archetype, and then he gets jobbed by a dude with a submachinegun.

>>145901316
Doesn't having the ability to use True Magic make her inherently better, though? I mean, True Magic is a major goal for mages just short of the Root itself.

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>>145901183
this guy was a fucking joke why do people hype Cornelius up.

>>145901427
Not in Aoko's case. In her case she just got lucky that she basically stumbled upon it.

>>145901427
How can reaching the root be a major goal if it means not being able to come back anyways? Isn't dying and your soul returning to the root functionally the same thing?

>>145901427
Not really. Aoko's ability to use the Fifth is totally independent of her actual skill at magic. She's a shoddy magus with very little talent beyond fighting, but her ability to use the Fifth turns her into an unparalleled destroyer.

>>145897484
If you were to look at all the magi in the world, Fast Wheels would probably have ranked in the top 2 or 3%. His skills were so impressive he managed to alter the capabilities of the Holy Grail circuit after just a few weeks of study.

He was more of a book mage however than a warrior mage, and he had bad luck that he went toe-to-toe with someone who specialized in assassinating warrior mages.

If Kayneth had had Iskander like he wanted, and by doubling up Iskander's mana thanks to his alterations to the circuit (letting his wife also give mana), he probably would have been able to win the Holy Grail War.

But again, even then he might still have lost to Kerry - scissors beat paper, even if you have a phone book.

>>145901427
>>145901518
It was given to her by her grand-pa. He's the amazing magus. She's canonically mid-tier at everything else which is why Alice is mentoring her.

>>145901535
The point is to reach the Root yet not get swallowed up. That's why there are so few True Magicians -- it's almost impossible to get there and still come back.

>>145901187
It's a dwarf planet now, the "not a planet" meme is long dead.

>>145901518
Oh right. I haven't read her VN yet so my knowledge about her is mostly limited to the Tsukihime prologue and what little I've pucked up from these threads.

>>145901427

True Magic isn't magecraft.

Aoko was just born further ahead on the track to the Root than most magi, but if she was ever forced into the position of needing to start further back, she would lack all of the foundation necessary to lay fresh rails to the Root that talented magi already possess.

>>145901571
This. Beyond Kiritsugu, though, Gil is still a natural counter for Iskander. Iskander's Reality Marble can't survive Ea.

>>145901444
He was next in line to become the director of the Sponheim Abbey, and as far as Magic Circuit count and quality goes, he's one of the highest and the series. Just in terms of talent alone, he was one of the best, with tremendous talent in a large variety of fields. Touko and Araya are specialists. They're not necessarily the best, but they have one field that they're better at that anyone else. Araya's the best at bounded fields, while Touko's the best at dolls.

While Alba's power as a magus was great, he was ultimately an inferior fighter compared to Touko and Araya. But the thing is being able to fight well is not an indicator of one's talent as a Magus. That's why even though Shirou is able to recreate Noble Phantasms and use them proficiently, he will never be more than a fifth-rate Magus.

Basically, you don't become valedictorian by fighting good.

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>>145901742
Why doesn't Iskandar just summon all his troops on top of Gilgamesh at the start?

>>145897484
Humans are basically shit tier in Fateverse in the first place, so the modifier to that statement that is unstated is basically "I am strong (for a human)".

That's why in nearly all Type Moon verses people always say that humans can never surpass the odds and beat a race stronger than them. It is heavily unusual.

For perspective, the ranking system is as follows:

Entities (Alaya, Gaia) > Divine Spirits = Types >>> Most Servants = Most Dead Apostle Ancestors = Phantasmal Beasts (Noble Phantasm Tier) >>> Dead Apostles = Most Magi/Enforcers (Mystic Code Tier) > mindless magical beasts > regular humans

>>145901636
The Magicians are failures. They reached the Root, but they never actually went through the door. They made a path, but they never actually went inside. True Magic is cool, but it's not the ultimate goal. It's more like a booby prize.

>>145901183
>Incidentally, while Willy Wonka is a very high tier Magus, apparently his combat compatibility against Fastwheels is poor.

Isn't this just elemental rock-paper-scissors? Alba's fire attribute probably fares poorly against Kayneth's dual wind-water attribute.

And Illya's a homunculus with a ludicrous number of magic circuits, so comparing her with humans isn't really meaningful.

>>145901823
Because then they get swords to the face.

>>145901918
Oh come on, hundreds of guys on one dude and not ONE of them can stab him in the face before a sword hits them?

>>145901904
It's not even that. Ilya was born with innate knowledge of thaumaturgy. Furthermore, she doesn't actually use spells. Her Sorcery Trait is "Wish", so when she does something, all she's doing is wishing for a certain result to occur. As long as that wish is within her capacity to perform, it'll happen.

>>145901183
Except that Ciel has Roa's knowledge and skill.

>>145897484
He's near top tier as a magus. Same raw power as willy wonka, but with more Mystic Codes and shit.

>>145901965
Dude's got shields too you know.

>>145901823
He can't. The RM is based on the idea of a fair fight and true conquest. It always spawns the enemy a fair distance away organized in clear battle formation, as seen with Assassin.

>>145901806
This. Alba's a first-rate talent as a mage (despite his crippling psychological issues and obsession with Touko), but Touko and Araya are both monsters with unusually high combat ability and unique specialties. Talent is mostly a function of the quantity and quality of your magic circuits, but battle power is independent of that.

Kayneth is likewise a very talented mage, but that talent doesn't readily translate into battle strength.

Wonka and Fastwheels need to be in a Grail War together.

I'd pay to see them face off against Aoko and Touko.

>>145902050

That's exactly why Ciel is one of the top in the world.

She wouldn't be jack shit without it, we all know this.

>>145902070
>Same raw power
No. It's hard to contend with Alba in terms of power. If he were a fighting game character, he could spam super moves over and over and over.

>>145902135

That's smalltime.

We need Bartholemoi, Wonka, and Fastwheels against Medea.

>>145901825
How come there are so many special snowflake humans who regularly BTFO high tier enemies then?

>>145902157
Not necessarily. Ciel's a monster. Her Magic Circuit count and quality are off the fucking charts. Her innate talent is so tremendous that even Rin, with all her potential, can't compete. She was a freak of nature from the moment she was born. She even has an innate healing factor, independent of the paradox curse.

>>145902135

They would get fucked almost instantly.

>>145902135
Touko would probably completely destroy the whole Grail War to transform it into an Aoko-killing ritual or something.

>>145902135
Except the Aozaki sisters would try to kill each other the moment they saw each other. Wonka and Fastwheels wouldn't even need to do anything -- they could sit back and watch the show.

>>145902157
Ciel's ludicrously high magic circuit count would make her a monster anyways, but adding on Roa's knowledge makes her one of the best of the best.

>>145902248
Talent =/= combat ability. Kiritsugu's a mediocre mage and Archer's a mediocre servant, but they can win against opponents with much better specs by relying on unconventional tactics and clever strategies.

>>145902319
>implying Wonka would let Aoko have that honor.

Touko is his bitch and he needs to let the world know it.

>>145902311
I'd pay to see that. I wouldn't be surprised if Touko created puppets which could hold command seals for multiple servants just to try fuck over Aoko like she did with the magic crests in Mahoyoyoyo.

>>145902157
What I'm saying is if you can't include Roa then why would you include his incarnations.

>>145902264

All the best magi in the world are freaks of nature. Aoko's circuit quality makes Ciel's look pathetic and she's not even a particularly gifted magus. The only reason Ciel is close to the best is because she has access to Age of the Gods magecraft. Give any other talented magus with an affinity for Imaginary Numbers, like Sakura, that same knowledge and library of spells, and they would be just as amazing.

>>145902319

>Ciel's ludicrously high magic circuit count would make her a monster anyways, but adding on Roa's knowledge makes her one of the best of the best.

'Monster' is again all wrong. If Ciel did not have Roa's knowledge, she would have to start learning magecraft from scratch. No family crest to give her the foundation at an early age so that she can just build upon her predecessors' work. There's a reason why only magi with a lineage of five generations or more are considered to be top tier.

>>145902689
Aoko's a fairly bizarre case. She's got poor circuit count but high quality (the car that travels a thousand kilometers on a liter of gas and all that).

>>145902689
>>145902846
Both wrong. Aoko has a few circuits a their quality is average, she just uses them in a unique way

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>>145901825
>Divine Spirits = Types

>>145902974

Fuck no have you even read any of the material about Aoko? Her circuits are literally miracles. The reason why she sucks at magecraft is because magecraft isn't just about how good your circuits are.

Could Jesus/Moses/Abraham/Solomon beat a Type?

>>145903123
No.

>>145903123

Solomon nuked the upper layer of Gaia and erased human history, the firepower at his fingertips is beyond even Slash Emperor which could only destroy a continent. There's no doubt he could destroy TYPEs.

I just found out that ORT is not pronounced oh-are-tee but ohrt.

>>145903226
He tried to kill ORT and failed so horribly that he got embarrassed. To make sure no one found out about it he wiped out human history. /truefacts

>>145903272
It's actually "oru-to" if you want to be a weeb.

>>145903226
Solomon is lifewiper. He didn't even kill everything on the surface as Archer said there are a group of amazons and pirates with a thriving ecosystem.

>>145903383
Speaking of pirates, would Blackbeard make a good servant?

>>145903383

>as Archer said there are a group of amazons and pirates with a thriving ecosystem.

In a singularity. Nothing can survive outside the seven singularities. Even the Land of Shadows was destroyed, and the immortal being Scathach along with it.

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>>145903435
He already is.

>>145903435

He's top tier in any war that is on or near the ocean. Otherwise, you're better off with the Pirate Sluts who don't get their NP nerfed on land

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>>145903435
He's shit and comic relief character

>>145903435
We would be the best one at getting shit at Comiket that's for sure.

>>145903552
What's up with that big ass middle finger

How the fuck does FGO crap creep it's way into all TM threads. Fuck off already. Talking about Solomon is understandable but servants have nothing to do with this thread.

>>145903476
It was only destroyed because it was a byproduct of human history.

>>145903662

The Land of Shadows has nothing to do with humanity. It's another part of the 'other side of the world,' which was sealed off to all humans. Scathach herself stopped being human over 2,000 years ago and spent the time up until the world ended killing things like near-gods.

>>145903605
Instead of a hook hand he just straps one to his wrist.

>>145903106
魔術系統は数秘紋による魔力加工、変換、出力と魔法・青。魔術回路の質はC、量はE。

Fuck off.

>>145897484
In the Nasuverse modern mages are really weak compared to the ones from the age of gods. Fast wheels is a strong modern mage, but he is shit compared to the Aozakis or Araya. Willy Wonka was also a smart one but he jobbed like an idiot and got what he deserves from the dirty red. Plus it didn't help that he was loose in the head, though this is the Nasuverse where sanity is not included.

>>145903772
The Land of Shadows is from Irish Mythology, so it's indeed a fabrication of humanity. It's like Mount Olympus.

>>145904039

>Nasu retconned his own statements yet again

Color me shocked

>>145904374

No, it isn't. It existed long before Scathach became its Queen. It's a dumping ground for dead spirits and near-gods. It's specifically a part of the world that is beyond humans and is sealed away as part of the 'other side of the world'. The only reason Scathach gets to remain there is because she stopped being human too.

>>145902248

Because Nasu seems to fucking adore setting insanely strong antagonists against The One Guy That Perfectly Counters Them.

I mean don't get me wrong it's incredibly entertaining but still, he seems to do it a lot.

>>145904545
You do realize gods and spirits are also human creations, right? They also died due to Solomon's actions for this very reason.

>>145904733
What about ones like YHWH that got believed in so hard they retroactively became real and independent of worship?

>>145904917
I don't think we have any info on Nasuverse YHWH. A lot of the stuff attributed to YHWH turns out is was done by Alaya.

>>145904733

Gods are, spirits most definitely are not.

Unless you mean to say that the Lady of the Lake was created by humans.

Scathach killed all the near-gods in the Land of Shadows anyways. There was no reason for Solomon to target it specifically. All evidence points to his attack just destroying it as a natural result of its sheer firepower.

I don't know why you're going full autism over this with your headcanon, anyways. It doesn't change the fact that Solomon has the firepower necessary to destroy TYPEs

>>145897484
No shit, you missed the point

No matter how great of a magus you are, that means shit in a grail war when you have no idea about actual warfare or battles.

In a straightforward match he is good, but that's no good here

>>145898774
>creators words are wrong because my waifu won't lose

Magus know about magus things, they know about fighting other magus. They have no clue about fighting heretics or strange types though. Nasu said it was likely they would employ the strategy of removing her connection from the land, since they're familiar with such things since it falls within their territory.

Where they run into trouble are things slightly out of their territory like Shirou or Kerry

>>145905137
>spirits most definitely are not

Ghosts are human spirits, Scatach herself said that ghosts and gods were dying and how what Solomon was doing was beyond something a god with their authority could do. Nature spirits and the like go the backside of the world and their own realms that are part of the world, they don't need to hang out on Scatach's realm.

>It doesn't change the fact that Solomon has the firepower necessary to destroy TYPEs

He doesn't. Solomon's showing puts him maybe on the same ballpark as a Sister, 5 of which were required to stalemate Type Pluto. Nvm that Solomon is irrelevant in the Melty manga after his herald got killed and everyone is focusing on why the future vanished after the year 2016 which is confirmed to not be Solomon's work.

>>145900430
Arcueid is Gaia's Ultimate one.

The thing is that she's also the Moon's ultimate one since she's basically the love child of both

Here's really the biggest issue with 90% of magi in combat settings: They're not soldiers. They're not fighters. They're not tacticians. They don't know the first goddamn thing about warfare or strategy. They haven't even taken a glance at a Combat Tactics For Dummies handbook.

That's why those who actually know about those things and have the powers to back it up can defeat them. That's why Shiki can fight vampires, because assassin techniques were beaten into his head when he was a small child. Nrvnqsr may be powerful, but he's literally just siccing a bunch of animals on you. The Nanaya were, basically, hunters. A skilled hunter can put down just about any animal so long as they have the right tools for the job.

>>145905646
Aren't Arc and Archetype Earth different sort of like how Ryougi and Void Shiki are different?

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>>145905661
Nrvnqsr was also thrown off his game since he was an ancient and powerful DAA getting challenged by some dude with a fruit knife.

>>145905772
Arcueid is equals to type moon

ATE is Gaia


Shiki says that they're both arc in the end and that making differences is just talking fancy. Like him and Nanaya

>>145901015
They might have just called them at random.

>>145905955
Yeah, but Shiki has a particular viewpoint of the world. He wouldn't make any distinctions between the three Ryougis either. Because they all represent an aspect of the singular being known as Ryougi Shiki.

Basically, to Shiki, "you" are "you". It doesn't matter which "you" you are. All of "you" are "you".

>>145905661
>>145905859
Apparently in F/SF they mention Nero kicking the living shit out of everyone in a war hundreds of years ago. Richard or something

>>145905646
>>145905955
Earth has no Type, that's why Crimson Moon came and created the True Ancestors. Princess Arcueid is close but she can only manifest a fraction of Crimson Moon's reality marble

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>>145898974
Adult Tohsaka is also destitute though

>>145906033
I never heard anything about Nero specifically, but supposedly the Crusades were put on hold so Richard the Lionheart, Saladin, and Hassan-i-Sabbah could go tag team a bunch of DAAs

>>145906320
Princess Arc is the Brain of the Planet, she is effectively beyond a Type as she is literally the planet itself, unlike Types who are little more than machines that the planet imputs orders into.

SACCHIN

ROUTE

WHEN

>>145906780
When the Tsukihime remake comes out.

>>145906540
>gag character
>adult Tohsaka

>>145906780
>>145906864
So another 14 years from now?

>>145900430
Really what you should be asking is why the moon has one. Lots of planets have moons.

>>145907038
In the best case scenario.

>>145907143
It's really depressing that if I say "all jokes aside" the soonest we can actually expect it is probably 2020. And that's before translation.

>>145906780
Who?

>>145907129
If you wanted to justify it, you could bullshit about the Moon's formation in the great impact.
>>145907252
I remember a few years ago after the PV came out saying that we could probably get it by 2016 and a translation around 2020. Because if they're showing us the art then they have to be close. But damn it's still gone nowhere.

>>145901825
Does Divine Spirits include True Demons?

>>145901977
>Sorcery Trait
Is that different than an Origin?

>>145907519
I just checked my TM Aces and they've been advertising the remake since TM Ace 8. I really hope they at least ball park a release date in the next one.

>>145902264
Wasn't that all a product of Roa's possession? Unlike Shiki, she was from an ordinary family, a baker I think.

>>145908341
Yeah. An Origin is basically the core of a person. It basically nudges you towards a particular area. So someone with an Origin of "Taboo" might be nudged towards socially taboo things.

Sorcery Trait is just what you're specialized towards as a magus.

Generally speaking, even if you're not that good a Magus, if you focus on your Sorcery Trait and/or Origin, you can actually produce some decent results. But you'd only be a specialist. Magi value all-rounders more.

>>145898974

So if this is Adult Rin, what will Adult Luvia look like?

>>145899386
Time Alter is pretty useless for defense, after all

>>145899513

Kerry's bullets are anti-magic.

>>145897484
He's the most accomplished magus to participate in Zero and FSN, second only to Zouken.

How does Nasuverse handle entropy and the second law of thermodynamics?

Life is really meaningless.

>>145908667
Like regular Luvia but with slightly larger tits and a carefully concealed wedding band signifying her marriage to Rin

>>145904374
I'm pretty sure it's just a little place in Scotland.

Why are mages always appeared as evil in fsn and nasuverse and always lose. Is there a thing with nasu about them.

Why didn't Kerrytugu just shoot Kayneth in the head with the first piercing bullet instead of doing the whole tricked you thing. Would have saved him an origin bullet.

>>145909463
Because Kerry's a dumbass. I thought we've been over this.

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>>145909275

The Isle of Skye to be precise. Pic related is what it looks like. Forgive the filename, it's also a location used in 40k.

>>145908505
So you're fucked if your origin is Worthlessness like Tomoe's?

Just wondering.

Origin Bullets probably work as normal bullets to people who have not learned magic. What happens if Kerry faced Kuzuki?

Did Kerrytugu really have to kill Sola as well as Kayneth? Or did he just do that for max suffering

>>145909702
I don't think most Origins function at all. Something crazy needs to happen to awaken your origin.

>>145909767
Probably max suffering.
See >>145909463
All he did was a waste of bullets, and the job could have been done with an excess of explosives. I guess he really hates mages a lot.

>>145909767
She was a potential threat. As a Magus, if another Servant lost their Master, they could form a contract with her. It's pretty unlikely, but it could happen.

That being said, Kiritsugu's methods are needlessly cruel and brutal. He's pretty excessive in how he operates.

>>145909956
This, let's not forget Kerry is batshit insane

>>145909463
Didn't fastwheels have the shield surrounding him at the time? Kind of hard to aim for the head if you can't exactly see your target.

>>145909738
Entirely dependent on the circumstance. Kuzuki's biggest advantage is surprise while preparation is Kiritsugu's biggest strength.

>>145910059
Mainly, he just takes his "cut off every potential threat immediately" philosophy to crazy extremes. There IS technically a point to everything he does, but you don't really have to cut off every single 1% or 2%. That's just a pointless waste of life and ammo.

Kiritsugu's mentality is too childish. He's like a child desperately trying to imitate an adult's. So he takes what he believes to be "realistic, pragmatic" methods and stretches them as far as he can. But his ideology is basically akin to murdering every single high-ranking officer who leaves the military, just because they MIGHT pose a threat to national security, no matter how unlikely that may be. It's ridiculous.

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>>145897484
He was only 25 anon, fast wheels was only 25. Kiritsugu was older than fast wheels.

>>145909463
It's not that easy to aim at something that is out of sight, even hitting him the first time was luck (also plot).

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>>145897484
But can he defeat Miss Blue?

>>145910642
Wat? Are you serious, I thought he was in his late 30s or 40s.

That makes it even sadder. He didn't deserve that.

>>145897484
He's a scrub who's only good for his bloodline and money.

>>145911136
Fuck off with your youtube memes and /co/ images faggot.

>>145901571
>he probably would have been able to win the Holy Grail War.
gilgamesh would still exist you know

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>>145911207
go take your meds sperglord, its just a meme

heres your retarded smug anime pic you wanted so bad

>>145911318
Fuck off.

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>>145911361
stay mad

>>145910642
>year older than me
I almost feel bad for him now

>>145911433
>young
>madly in love
>just want to prove to your waifu that you're good enough for her

it's a genuine tragedy

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Waver does more with less than Kayneth ever did.

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What does a "proper Magus duel" look like? Since Kayneth was throwing a huge tantrum after chasing Kerry for a while about it and constantly belittling him for his style.

>>145911850
Tokiomi vs Kariya, except way less pathetic

>>145910293
I'm honestly surprised he didn't try to kill waver at some point. He's a nutjob.

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>>145911954
Was pathetic his origin?

>>145912046
He did! In the novel at least, he was camping outside his house ready to blow it up when Berserker took Iri.

>>145912046
At some point in the LN Kiritsugu wanted to kidnap Waver's "grandparents" or blow them up in their house.

>>145912234
Origin's are retarded anyways

>Shirou's is 'sword'
>not 'fake'

I know you didn't want to be that blatant with reusing Tomoe, but come the fuck on Nasu

>>145912817
>Implying Shirou's body is made out of fakes

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>>145903529
>He's top tier in any war that is on or near the ocean.
So basically Blackbeard is Aquaman?

>>145903552
>He's shit and comic relief character
Ok, confirmed Aquaman.

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>>145906320
>Earth has no Type, that's why Crimson Moon came
In the past earth had no type which is why Crimson Moon came. Then Crimson Moon died and Arcueid was created. Nasu said that Arcueid(by herself) is equals to Crimson moon.

Archetype Earth is not Princess Arc, Princess Arc is just Arcueid before Roa stole her power. And Archetype Earth is basically Gaia, materials say so and she herself says the earth is a part of her body

>>145909676
The site where the Emperor argued against the last holy man for the dissolution of organized religion. Kind of ironic.

>>145909676
Looks like a pretty fucking appropriate name