Here lies the king Pay respects /a/

yeah, rip

f

Literally just finished Fate route yesterday, are the other routes on par in quality?

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>>145558566
I only pay respect to the ubermensch.
Though saber is good too, for cuddling and tender loving

>>145558722
Fate route is the weakest route anon, heaven's feel is the best route objectively

>>145558759
If Fate is the weakest route, then i'm fairly excited to get into the others. I just hope I can keep my data for the tiger stamps since my phone can only hold 1 route at a time.

>>145558722
Better. Fate route is the introductory route, after that the vn can finally take flight.
Also don't go chasing too much the tiger stamps, the tiger dojo tends to spoil things. Just play the main story.
I hope you're playing the Realta Nua version + H scenes included

>>145558724
>red eyes
>nail polish
>earrings

You only respect transvestites?

>>145558566
I prefer Alter but still best girl.

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No Eternal Anglo can be my king

>>145558759
>heaven's feel is the best route objectively

Nah.

>>145559793
Best route is Last Episode

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>>145560318

>>145558566
King my ass she ain't Arthur.

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>>145560423

>>145559715
But he's a Briton, not an Anglo.

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>>145560371

>>145560570
Not enough.

>>145558566
Doesn't she know she's lying on a grave?

That's rude.

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>>145559575
heh, mongrel

>>145560754
It's her grave it's okay

>>145558566
Oh, king eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.

>>145558566
Wait, King Arthur is real? I thought he just a legend???

>>145560925
he's as real as saber

F

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>>145560958
Saber is real?

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>>145561210
yes if you believe

>>145561210
I wish.

>>145560570
Holy shit it's all true.

Now I'll have to keep watch about news of a Power Plant crisis halted by a "mysterious red man".

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Would you a balloon Saber?

teh king

>>145558566
If a real King Arthur had been buried there, he would've been rolling in there at that moment at the speed of light.

>>145562006
I'd pop her if you get my jive.

>>145560561
What's the difference?

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>>145562006
>The sword is still gone to this day

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>>145558566
Thank god I don't need to read the English translation.

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>>145563228

>>145563228
>>145563248

What problems do you have with the screenshots you specifically showed?
Unless you're one of those faggots who think anything that's not a clunky 1:1 TL is wrong.

In which case, please never translate anything for anyone.

>>145563686
I'm not the poster, but I'd honestly argue the opposite.
The clunky English translation there should try harder not to mirror Nasu's phraseology exactly.

>>145559521
Honestly, I enjoyed the Fate route the most, since then most of the mechanics/characters are kind of explained already, so the tension gets lifted, so it gets quite less exciting. Also Fate has the best end in my opinion, unless we include Mind of Steel, which didn't even happen.

>>145564435
Most of the mechanics not having to be retread is one of the reasons why I really preferred UBW. It hit this sweet spot where the best elements established in Fate were there, but didn't have to heavily "twist" them like HF did.

You got the meat and potatoes quicker.

>>145564518
base elements*

>>145564518
UBW was quite nice, since you didn't still know everyone, but somehow I think it felt a bit stretched towards the end and you already know the identity of the most important characters.

and the red man is hinted on so hard it became a bit obnoxious

At least it wasn't shoehorned in like Heaven's Feel was, though UBW has rather dissapointing end.

>>145564605
UBW's ending is really strong thematically, which I like. It's the pay off for everything surrounding Shirou's character.

>>145564646
Which one?

Sunny day is pure garbage and despite Brilliant years being okay, it just paled in comparison to Continuation of the dream in its impact, it just felt too flat.

>>145564805
Oh, you mean the ending ending? I was thinking of the lead up to that.

The VN ending is okay. I have some issues with Sunny Day (roughly the same issues with HF True's ending, in that I just don't like a servant living through things), but I think the anime epilogue was actually really great. I loved seeing London, Luvia, and Shirou's affirmation to not just walk Archer's path, but to surpass it.

>>145564891
>anime ending

For what purpose?

>>145564957
What do you mean? It was written by Nasu and extended beyond the VN ending.

So I guess that purpose? To see an extension of the story.

>>145564891
I agree, the Clock Tower epilogue is killer.
I remember wishing back in the day that we'd been able to see some of that closure in the novel, and Nasu finally delivered.
Honestly, it's the only reason I tell people to watch UBW TV at all.

>>145564989
It's like Christian Hayden being in the end of Star Wars: The return of the Jedi.

It just doesn't work, it's pointless revisionism with Zero garbage added on top.

I don't mind the anime being an homage to the series, but it's ridiculous to take it as its own work, since that's be just bastardization of what made Fate enjoyable to begin with.

>>145565077
Nothing was changed in the ending though. You got everything that was in the VN, except the anime just went beyond it.

The VN never properly showed the Clocktower. Now we see it. We see Shirou's life, how he's dealing with his choices, and everything that could potentially leave you hanging when you read the VN.

It wasn't Zero fanservice either. Waver is a mainstay in Type Moon as a whole. He has his own sping off LN, and appears in Prisma and GO.

>>145565145
spin off*

sping sounds lewd

>>145565145
That's why I said I had no problems with it being an homage, it does try to be faithful to its source material, but it can never actually translate what the work is about, since it's completely different format. It just can't hold on its own and that's why secondaries are so terribad in this case, so I always try to obstain from involving it in the actual plot of the series.

>>145565231
I'm not entirely sure I agree with your sentiment.

UBW doesn't stand on its own. By its very nature as a story, you need to experience the Fate route first, and, regardless what you may think of it, an anime of that exists, so that's covered.

But you also have to factor in the ending.

The VN version of UBW, by nature, as Nasu has actually spoken about when discussing his writing of the anime epilogue, was not meant to work as a closed off finale. You still had Heaven's Feel to get through, so you shouldn't feel compeltely done yet.

A Heaven's Feel anime didn't exist in 2015 though. It doesn't exist in 2016, so what Nasu did was try and provide more solid closure to the anime ending, and as a result, UBW as a whole.

There's a whole interview that goes into this, and it's really fascinating. I'm sure I could find it if I looked.

>>145565305
>The VN version of UBW, by nature, as Nasu has actually spoken about when discussing his writing of the anime epilogue, was not meant to work as a closed off finale. You still had Heaven's Feel to get through, so you shouldn't feel compeltely done yet.

This is why I've always been incredibly frustrated that Fate is always examined as three disparate narratives as if each route were parallel. Nothing in Fate holds up when you examine the routes independently.
Shirou's character arc clearly runs straight from Fate through UBW and ends with Heaven's Feel.

>>145565305
UBW doesn't stand on its own not because there aren't anime adaptations of different routes, but because anime just can't translate the format well. You need extracurricular information for you to understand what's going on. It doesn't show items/powerlevels/abilities of the characters, which is in my opinion one of the most important factors and main part of the visual novel, if you cannot work with that so much of the work gets unexplained and anyone who's seen just the anime will not actually understand it.

It's incomplete work.

Also the different narration and lack of many monologues/interactions and not being capable to make any choices doesn't give you the chance to explore the character interactions that well. It's just inferior experience of the same thing.

If you know both the source material and the adaptation you'll know what's going on and can actually enjoy the experience properly.

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>>145565432
>Shirou's character arc clearly runs straight from Fate through UBW and ends with Heaven's Feel.

Well not /clearly/. His ultimate growth isn't linear, as Nasu has mentioned before.

It's not like he intended you to read through 500k words split across two stories, and say the answers Shirou came to in them weren't right. It's more nuanced than that.

But to get Shirou's character, and the entire story as a whole, you need all three routes. That's how it was all intended to be experienced.

>>145565495
I don't super agree with the power level stuff, especially since Nasu breaks his own rules all the time, and frankly, some of it is a little silly in the first place.

Like, E rank strength is implied to be 10 times stronger than your average human. That means Medea could crush a person's skull, physically, as if it was nothing. She's a walking Terminator, but that's never really brought up.

You definitely should experience the VN though, that's an absolute truth, but there are advantages an anime can have over a middling budget VN most certainly.

>>145563107
celtic as opposed to germanic

>>145565509
This is a fair point, my supposition of linearity was hasty there.
I absolutely agree that Shirou's character is only properly addressed through an examination of all three routes, which is the important part.
It just happens that the routes are presented roughly as "established ideals - identity reconciliation - interpersonal sacrifice," which jives nicely with the general journey of modern man from childhood to maturity, but I suppose sequence is distinct from progression.

>>145565561
>nasu breaks his own rules all the time

I really don't think so. It's obvious that the rules are made for/and pick by the situation and it's not always 100% consistent or most plausible, however, that doesn't change that fact that these rules still do apply in the world and is being rule by them.

And I do honestly think that if you do not understand/know about the powerlevel/servant system in general, you probably won't really understand what's going on in the series.

>some of it is a little silly in the first place
Most of it is absolutely silly most of the time. It's really chuuni, but that's at least what I like about it.

>there are advantages an anime can have over a middling budget VN most certainly
Such as? Visuals? Voice actors?

>>145565809
Well the thing is, I find a lot of the power level stuff to mostly be fluff for the imagination.

At the end of the day, when you play the VN, you're reading words, and seeing some still images flash on the screen.

Action, I think is very hard to come off compelling in a written setting, and the VN does its best definitely- adding music and visuals helps a considerable amount, but I think a lot of the stats are there really to just kind of tickle your imagination. It's too expensive to draw CGs for every punch, but Nasu went into detail, for those who wanted it, to cover just how strong each of those individual punches were.

Which brings to the next point. Yeah, visuals. Action is allowed to be conveyed so much easier when you have a whole animation team backing things, and I do believe Ufotable, regardless of what some people like to meme about, make some very fine and entertaining action scenes.

It's not even just that though. Set pieces, for instance, don't have to be so static. Remember the first Kuzuki fight in the VN? It was all framed around one of the generic city street stills. The anime had it take place in a run down gas station, which made the scene stand out more.

>>145566009
Or like when Lancer joined up with Shirou and Rin.

They did a slight time skip and moved the scene to the run down church in the forest. Not only was that a fun little easter egg for those who remember that scene from Fate, but it made it less jarring to have a lightheaded segment when, in the VN, that happened like, 10 feet away from Ilya's corpse.

>>145566009
Yes, anime was flashy and almost everyone would think that it look better, that certainly is absolutely correct, however I'd actually say that the action in the anime is shit. What made the action in the VN good is the narration and explanation of the fights.

The first ArcherXLancer encounter was actually explained in the VN, where you can read how archer is constantly in the defensive and is getting beaten down by Lancer with his superior agility and skills, where he's just wearing down the archer, who has no way of attacting lancer, due to his weapon having bigger range than his and if he were to attack him he'd likely lose the fight, so he has actually no chance of winning and is going to lose eventually.

It was high suspense thanks to that, it actually made the fight interesting and challenging for the characters.

In the anime, it was just two guys mashing against eachother. Maybe I am an idiot who doesn't understand what could be gathered from the animation, but I couldn't have figured out who was winning, who had an advantage, how the fight was proceeding. It was just vapid shallow CG eyecandy with no depth. The only thing you could've gathered is that Lancer was suprised by how Arches is dual-wielding and that Archer can summon/desummon his weapons and that he has lot of them, but there was really nothing to latch into. I couldn't even try to relive the VN feelings, because the fights weren't even that faightful to the VN.

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>>145566170
Well you're obviously not going to be able to translate written action into visual action. It's a complex matter that breaks things down into choreography, and visual interest. Is your big opening action scene for your first episode going to be entertaining, and more importantly, marketable, if it plays out 100% the same as the VN?

I also don't really agree that a lot of what made the VN fights interesting were the explanation. I don't mean to diss Nasu, but a lot of his writing is really fluffy, and full of exaggerations, like for instance, really going into ridiculous detail about how hurt someone is, or like, saying they grit their teeth so hard, one of them cracks. It's heavy on metaphor often to the point of where I just kind of ignore it.

Animation though can also provide information that would take thousands of words to rightly convey. Take for instance the early signs of Shirou growing and copying Archer's abilities.

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>>145566412
Little visual touches like these can't as subtlety be made through the VN.

UBW in particular made strong use of visual call backs and referencing.

>>145566412
That's exactly my point, you can't do fate as anime, it doesn't work. It makes it automatically incomplete/different and inferior to fate. It's good as an expensive eyecandy for people that already know the series, but watching it standalone will just make you misunderstand the series.

You really seem to be underplaying the importance of the narration and how much of the world mechanics has been skimped over, since Nasu is good as a worldbuilder, that's where he shines and that's where the anime sufferes the most.

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>>145566412
>>145566465
The big important takeaway of the Archer vs Lancer fight as well wasn't the details about how Archer was edging towards losing, but more to just how insanely powerful the servants, their actions, and their movements, came across.

>>145566532
Narration is important, certainly, and there are some scenes in FSN where it's pivotal, but there are also some things that I don't believe are super beneficial from being narrated.

I've mentioned this, but in a general sense, written action is a very different beast from visual action.

Written action, without strong visuals and sound, I find has to go to greater extremes to really get their heels into the reader. FSN, the VN, did a lot of these. I remember reading countless times how Shirou's body was just in stifling agony constantly because of all the fighting he was doing, and the purpose of this is to raise the stakes and intensity, because you can't exactly see him getting punched, or stabbed, or bleeding. Making CGs of all that costs money.

When you adapt all that to a visual medium, if played straight, some of it can come off as going overboard.

>>145566709
I'm almost certain that the VN suffered from overuse of certain phrases, there really is only limited amount of times you can describe the same thing and in such setting you are required to describe such same situations multiple times, however at least it still maintains its precision and explanatory power, while in anime too much get lost and little to nothing gets conveyed, it just comes down to someone winning, but it rarely is ever explained why and even during the fight you are losing the sight of what is going on.

Also VN's are certainly capable to do animations properly even with fights, though that's not exactly the thing you'd expect, nor even want, since the format is centered around exposition and going against that might defeat the purpose of the medium.

Both the anime and the VN still have their own place, however anime still relies on the VN to be coherent and cannot convey what VN has to offer, it's a different thing, while not even being its own thing.

>>145566880
Well that's the thing, a lot of it just comes down to matters simply being conveyed visually, rather than having to explain the specific details down to every twist and turn, and I think the anime did that fairly well, if not as 100% accurate to what was said in the VN on some things.

Which I'm okay with in some regards. Action scenes in particular I have never found very entertaining in writing. It's so much harder to get a rise out of someone from describing a punch than it is showing it. I think it comes down a lot to weight, and sound. You can spend a whole paragraph writing about how sickening the crunch was when a guy got smacked in the jaw, but at the end of the day, that's absorbed in five seconds when shown visually, and likely to greater impact.

If conveying what Nasu was going for on a macro level, has to sacrifice some micro details in a fight, I'm okay with that, but in truth, I think a lot of the micro details were there to compensate for an inability to create the weight that a streamlined visual could.

And yes, FSN did have visuals, and effects- in parts, but again, it was kind of a middling budget production. Mahoyo has some absolutely beautifully animated scenes, like genuine animation animation if you watch them, but mostly what FSN could do was pan over some CG stills, and float some png slash effects over them.

It was what it was, and it was a hell of a step up from Tsukihime in terms of production values.

Anyway, this has been a very interesting conversation, and I want to make it clear, I'm not adamantly disagreeing with you, it's I think I'm not as bothered by some of the smaller changes that tend to be made from a transition from writing to visuals.

Anyway, I'm kicking it. Take care.