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Are we fucking the anime industry?

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More specifically, does pirating anime cause significant losses to the anime industry?
I just read this article
http://goboiano.com/list/4104-how-much-money-you-cost-the-anime-industry-when-you-illegally-stream
and was thinking about it. The person who wrote it came up with a rough estimate of big money loss to the anime industry due to illegal anime streaming. She based her estimate on the number of views on some streaming site, but the first thing that come to my mind is that the number of viewers who would pay for anime if illegal free anime weren't available would be considerable smaller.
Also, I've heard that what really moves the anime industry are bluray sales, so streaming and downloading anime don't have a huge impact. Besides, japanese people have free access to anime on tv, so is it really wrong if they decide to record and upload anime? I mean, why there are televisons able to record programs if people aren't allowed to record what they watch?

So, what do you think, /a/? Are we parasites fucking up anime?
>>
id fuck her industry if you nah mean homie
>>
I hope they shutdown all stream site.
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>>144800574
Well, kind of but the specific article you reference uses some super fucked up numbers.

Go buy some BDs or figures if it makes you feel so bad, that's practically how the industry gets funded nowadays.
>>
The producers don't get a set amount of money for every view. Legal streaming sites just buy the streaming rights or something similar. More views just benefits Crunchy or Funi
>>
Except that anime licensing is done with a flat fee, so that article is absolute dogshit.
>>
>She
And into the trash it goes.
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>>144800574
I don't care, to be quite honest.
>>
Yes. If tomorrow no one could pirate anime, the amount of money the industry makes would at least triple. Anime is already popular everywhere, but no one is paying for it. The sudden feasibility of selling worldwide would also result in more advertisement, which would result in the medium becoming even more mainstream.
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>>144802140
If I couldn't pirate anime I'd just not watch it.
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>>144800574
No. Most of their money is made from merch and promoting the source material. I spend thousands on merch, manga and LNs each year.

Go be stupid somewhere else.
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>>144802140
Anime is so hilariously shit right now that if I couldn't pirate it, there would be zero reason to watch it.
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>>144802206
Yeah, the amount of anime watched on average would decrease, but the amount of anime pirated is huge. Even a small fraction of it is a lot of money.
>>
>>144802296
You can't possibly believe that people would just stop watching anime in such proportion that there wouldn't be a market for it.
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>>144800574
>streaming
>>
We're not, we don't influence the industry regardless of how we consume their content.
You could argue that the japs who pirate anime are though.
>>
I started actually downloading it back in HS. I used to stream but hated the low quality and adware from the sites. I have bought 2 Lain Blu-Rays and a Umaru Fig and pillow (yes Im fucking pleb, get over it), so you could say I have supported the industry to a certain extent. The problem is how fucking expensive it is to even buy blu-rays. Finally with sites like Amazon we can get lower priced bundles but its still a long shot. I remember looking at some blu-rays a few years ago and it was like $50 for 6 fucking episodes, fuck that noise. If the nips were willing to let you download the entire series in blu-ray quality for maybe lets say $5-10 they would at least double their world wide market. Maybe if the fucking Japs would put out half as many shows each season that were actually GOOD, this wouldn't be a problem. I know I am buying Gundam Unicorn Blu-rays, but not for fucking $100 you fucking kikenips.
>>
I buy BDs/CDs/figures/keyrings etc. but I wouldn't if I had to pay to watch the shows first. i would just stop watching and buying.
>>
>>144800574
No. Especially after the Great Recession and the slow economic growth in the global economy, people just don't really have the money to buy expensive things that have no other use than collecting dust.
There's a reason why Crunchyroll now has almost 21 million (750k paid, 20 million free advertisement) people streaming: most people are too poor to spend more than 10 USD for anime a month.

>>144802140
Read above. There isn't enough people rich enough to buy anime anymore. In the past 25 years, real income for everyone in the bottom 99.99 percent has stagnated badly.
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>>144800574
Implying nips give a shit about overseas sales
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>>144802664
>There isn't enough people rich enough to buy anime anymore. In the past 25 years, real income for everyone in the bottom 99.99 percent has stagnated badly.

I'm going to need a source for that. As far as I can tell the middle class is growing in most of the world and people are wasting money left and right.
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>>144800831
>done with a flat fee
>See the enormous amounts of money American companies pay to license literally shit series
It's like they hired some of the dumbest people to be their CEOs.
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>>144802824
Don't they? Why they let crunchy and funi stream their anime then? Serious question.
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>>144802847
Most of the world equals developing nations that have devalued currency, huh? Because Western nations have been losing their middle class since the 1990s.
Fucking, WTO.
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>>144800831
A flat fee doesn't invalidate the article because the fee is a function of how much the license is worth. If anime could be sold for a lot of money, the fee could cost a lot of money.
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>>144802140
Then... we would be free?
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>>144800694
>>144800831

“If you watch just Naruto, your subscription money goes toward supporting that show. If you watch more than one show, the money is split proportionately among those shows depending on which ones you watch the most,” said [Crunchyroll CEO] Gao.

sounds more like it's licensing fee + stream fees
>>
Yes, pirated anime costs the industry a lot of money. People are lying when they say they wouldn't buy anything.

Overall, the number of anime seen by people would be lower, and there would be more rewatching. But the total number of bought anime would be much bigger, even if every piracy doesn't mean one lost sale. Piracy removes the demand for buying anime.

Also, the threat from piracy also forces the legal options to be artificially cheap. Compare prices in the 90s to modern prices. People in the 90s still bought anime, even though it was about 50 times as expensive as today.
Some people would drop anime, but it is popular, and there is a big market for it, that many would buy if they had to, just like they did in the 90s.
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>>144802931
>If anime could be sold for a lot of money, the fee could cost a lot of money.
>>144802858
>>
>>144802934
Don't kid yourself. If a little money was enough to stop your anime addiction you could stop now if you tried.
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Japan could not care less about how anime does overseas
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>>144803226
They'd care if overseas actually bought the anime instead of just pirating
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>>144800574
They don't care or WANT western interest and good on them.
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I can't fucking stand people that insist on talking about things that they have absolutely no fucking idea about.
>>
Impressive the mental gymnastics people do to justify piracy.
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>>144803267
Most of their shitty anime are made for the otaku who spend ridiculous amounts of money to collect everything. Any outside interest is just a bonus.
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>>144803267
Betch, even in Japan they make most of their money from BD sales.

They couldn't give less of a fuck about the literal cents they make from people payong for CR membership
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>>144802847
Not him but you can find these information in any site about economics. Like, there is even a whole book about it (the capital in the 21th century IIRC).
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>>144800574
Fuck of dirty gaijin
>implying you matter in the slightest
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>>144803530
If it weren't for piracy they'd make a lot more. Piracy forces the prices of Crunchyroll to be artificially low, and the threat of your favourite series being removed from Crunchyroll would drive more people to buy it, if they couldn't just pirate when they wanted to rewatch.
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>>144800574
>does literally stealing affect the income of people?
What the fuck kind of question is that?
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>>144803639
>literally stealing
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>>144803530
The reason they only make 'literal cents' from CR is piracy, which is exactly what we're discussing. Holy shit are you people mentally disabled?
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>>144802664
>Look at me pull numbers out of my ass
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>>144803530
How do you know that? The nips publicize the amount of money they earn which each medium? Could you provide some source?
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>>144803550
I don't see it. Developing nations are getting richer and from our perspective developed nations are still filthy rich regardless of any supposed 'stagnation'. This is pretty evident just by walking around in them. I won't be convinced unless someone post some real statistics of purchasing power around the world.
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>>144800574
I would pay for streams if I could afford it, and more importantly if legal options were available. As it stands CR's available library in my country is rather crap.
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>>144803530
Let's say CR membership is 5 bucks a month, with the current 750,000 paid members, that amounts to 3.75 million a month in dues.
Now, take into account that the CR CEO said that the 20 million free members (watches CR but has to suffer from ads) also almost equals the amount paid members give, let's say 3 million a month.

That's 6.75 million USD a month. That's 81 million USD worth of revenues in a single year.

Japanese companies/publishers are major investors in CR for this very reason.

>>144803631
>>144803697
Crunchyroll would not be making the money it's making if piracy didn't exist.
Also
>buying DVDs and BDs when those things will become obsolete when the next great video player is released.
Congratulations on buying vinyl records.

>>144803826
Type Crunchyroll 750,000. There are news articles on this from 2015.
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>>144800574
The only problem are the stream sites that profit from ads and premium membership bullshit they feed to clueless people. Otherwise, Japan hasn't made significant pushes to market their product overseas outside of Crunchyroll and Funimation.
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>>144803530
>even in Japan they make most of their money from BD sales.
This is factually incorrect. Something like 17% of their money comes from BDs, whereas 40%+ comes from merch. Stop spewing bullshit.
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I don't give a fuck. Im just gonna torrent till the end of time.
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>>144803697
No, the reason they make cents from crunchyroll is because most of the money you pay for membership stays within crunchy, hell even if a single studio got 50% of your memmbership it would take more than 100 CR subscriptions to make them as much money as a single BD boxset
>>
As other people have said, if I stopped being able to pirate anime I just wouldn't watch it. Sometimes I like a series enough to consider buying BDs just to support the franchise, but frankly the prices are so ridiculous there's no point, especially when realistically they're going to be nothing more than collector's items that I'm not going to watch. If I see nice merch I buy it, but I rarely see nice stuff for series I'm interested in since I'm not into figs. I'm pretty sure most people who pirate anime are the same, honestly.
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>>144803874
>Developing nations are getting richer
2 dollars in a daily wage is getting richer but it won't buy them fucking blurays that could feed them for a month.
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>>144803976
>Crunchyroll would not be making the money it's making if piracy didn't exist.

What? That doesn't make sense. If you're trying to make a point of the fact that CR started out as a piracy site, that's retarded and I hope I don't need to explain why.
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>>144803631
Isn't it kind of Crunchyroll's fault for entering the market with a service of less quality than fansubs?
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I like how there's always idiots on /a/ that think their opinion is factual, with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. There isn't a single person here that knows what people in the industry think of piracy.
The ONLY thing that we can assume from the inaction of animation studios is that piracy either does not affect them, or that it does not affect them significantly enough to do anything about it.
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>>144803976
THe plural of Revenue is revenue
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>>144804089
>2 dollars in a daily wage is getting richer but it won't buy them fucking blurays that could feed them for a month.

Except that's not the reality of developing nations.
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>>144804133
Or that doing something about it is really hard, which it is.
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>>144804150
Buying pirated DVDs and BDs in marketplaces in developing nations =/= supporting companies in Japan.
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>>144804197
I assume you have evidence to back up that claim.
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>>144804241
Are you fucking serious? You don't believe fighting piracy is difficult?
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>>144804307
So no, you don't have any kind of source whatsoever.
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>>144804338
>>144804241
You're pretty retarded if you think one conglomerate can eliminate the hundreds of thousands of uploaders and downloaders with ease and without law enforcement help
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>>144804394
Don't put words in my mouth.
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>>144804338
Haha, you got me anon. Congratulations on winning the argument.
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>>144804435
Thank you. In the future, don't talk about matters that you aren't educated on.
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Anime is not the primary source of income in the industry. Also, they make jackshit from overseas streaming and a lot of shows don't get proper DVD/BD releases and the ones that do are priced a fuckload more than any western would be willing to spend. People don't want purposefully sabotaged BDs to discourage reverse importing, nor do they want to shell out $80 USD for a movie. If they were betting their chips on western sales, then the industry would be fucked 12 ways to Sunday.
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The legal anime industry is trash in the west, it's all split between several subscription services that might not even pick up a show or even have some in your region.

Pirating and buying merchandise is the best way to watch anime in my humble opinion.
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>>144804435
you forgot the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NuFVQk_CCs
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>>144800574
dunno.
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>>144800574
>Also, I've heard that what really moves the anime industry are bluray sales
Ya got trolled very hard by the entirety of the internet.
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>>144800574
I've spent about $900 combined on dvds, manga, and merch for shows I would never bother watching if I even knew they existed if it weren't for pirating, so, I dunno dude.
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>>144800574
>pirating = lost sales.

Gets me every time.
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>>144804514
B-but my 5 dollars CR subscription surely keeps the industry afloat!
>>
Anime is just a very niche form of entertainment exclusive to Japan, the companies that produce it get most of their revenue from advertising and merchandise and (save for a few exceptions) are ultimately just a part of a much bigger editorial business that drives most of their profits.
So no, illegally downloading anime doesn't "hurt" them in any way because these companies have developed a very particular business model that works for them in Japan and Japan only.
Foreign streaming companies are just cashing in a few pennies on a small audience without direct impact on the Japanese companies, the "what if" revenue is bullshit put out by big corporations to justify their aggressive anti-piracy policies, but realistically speaking are actually never taken into consideration by any serious economist to tell how well or bad a business is doing.
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>>144804683
The only thing that's floating are the cadavers that encode for them.
>>
Imagine a world without piracy, we could have a service like this:
-stream site
-you pay $5 to watch one episode, you get three days to finish it
-when you finish the entire season you get the offer to buy permanent access for an additional $80
-the first episode could maybe be free to lure people in

This would be so profitable, and people would love it, but it's not possible because of piracy. Piracy takes away great opportunities too, it does not only reduce the value of current business models.
>>
>>144804674
>>144804683
No one is making that argument.
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>>144800574
>west cuckolds
>relevant

>idiots that dont buy anime, ever
>relevant

>the west streaming and downloading shit
>relevant

My sides
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>>144804757
>you get three days to finish it
People wouldn't like that at all. I think the music industry pre-iTunes tried something like that (time-limited subscriptions) and everyone hated it. For that to work, the rental period should be longer, maybe a month or so. Also, $5 for a single episode sounds too much, maybe $2.5 or so would be more economic.
>>
>>144804757
>-when you finish the entire season you get the offer to buy permanent access for an additional $80
>$80
>eighty fucking American dollarydoos for digital access
Practically nobody would pay for that, even if piracy wasn't an option.
>>
Actually sell to the west at a reasonable price if you want my money. Fuck paying the absurd prices you sell for domestically.
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Guys does china pirating seinfeld instead of buying the $100 dollar BDs hurt our american television industry or propagate our shit culture for free?
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>>144804757
>paying hundreds of dollars to watch one show
Are you on drugs?
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>>144804955
We both know you wouldn't pay shit no matter how cheap as long as you can pirate for free.
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You wouldn't download a car.
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Less shows per season wouldn't be a bad thing tb͏h
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>>144800574
If you were in japana yes but since you are not you are not important for them, hell they don't even take us in consideration for anything.
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>>144800574
What's the sales model that's going to save anime?
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>>144802140
>the amount of money the industry makes would at least triple
keep dreaming
>>
Without piracy, would tend of thousands of weeablords come to Japan/akiba every year to drop their money? Akiba is probably at least 40% gaijin on any given day.

Piracy is hardly only negative.
>>
>>144805113
Literally one intelligent Japanese person who realizes the enormous untapped western market.
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>>144804757
>paying 60 lollars to stream a single-cour show
>can't even rewatch an ep after 3 days
>have to pay another 80 bucks to rewatch
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>>144804472
If anime were a bigger source of income it could have a greater artistic value. Piracy hurts the art too.
When the industry is forced to make every anime into a toy commercial, it greatly reduces the artistic options for the creators. If people bought quality anime, the industry could try to make quality anime, without ruining the artistic integrity by being forced to add commercials to it.

Imagine you are the creator with the idea for Princess Tutu. However, to get it made, you have to do some edits:
- at least 5 female main characters
- 1 idol episode
- 3 j-pop insert songs
- no romance of any kind

You could see it hurt the artistic integrity of the show? If the anime weren't so dependent on selling extra stuff, if the anime could be profitable just on artistic merits, maybe you'd get to make the Princess Tutu true to your artistic vision
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>>144805140
>Akiba is probably at least 40% gaijin on any given day
That's not true, unless you're counting non-white foreigners.
>>
>>144805104
We've been over this already. Read the thread.
>>
Piracy in the west is a problem that the western licensee must deal with as per the contracts with the licensors from Japan.

Of course, everyone knows that it's impossible to really combat piracy, but the token effort is important.

The western streaming services make some of their money by streaming, and some other part by selling localized anime discs.
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>>144805249
Why wouldn't you? They're gaijin as well.
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>>144805249
Of course I am, the fucking Chinese are everywhere they even opened their own store in radio kaikan.
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>>144805015
The Jewish controlled media will tell you they are, and that thanks to the damn chinks the US economy is tanking and that the entirety of Hollywood and media outlets are going bankrupt.
Every shekel counts, goy.
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>>144805249
Why the fuck wouldn't you count them?
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>>144805286
Because I can't really tell, so the only people I see as foreign are white. I'm autismal.
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>>144804757
I pray to god no business hires you after college
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>>144804955
>sell to the west at a reasonable price
Then Japanese otaku import the cheaper Western editions, while we keep pirating shit because that's what we're used to doing anyway.
>>
They obviously would make more money if not for piracy, but it's not like this is just a Japanese phenomenon. Western entertainment has also had to adapt, which has lead to the success of things like Netflix and HBO GO.

I wouldn't say it hurts the quality of entertainment in the industry. Simply forces the industry to create new financial models. Porn isn't any worse since it essentially become a low profit industry.
>>
>>144805332
Which do you think is more likely:
1. Akiba is 40% foreigners, but you can't tell them apart from native Japanese
2. Akiba isn't 40% foreigners
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>>144805327
Because they all rook same
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>>144805443
how do we get the shit asians to leave
>>
>>144804757
Calm down there Taylor Swift
>>
>>144805422
The ratio of piracy of anime vs western entertainment is not comparable. If anime was legitimately watched as often as western media, we wouldn't be having this thread.
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>>144804757
this is an elaborate shitpost
>>
>>144805591
>If anime was legitimately watched as often as western media, we wouldn't be having this thread.
Yes we fucking would. There's always incomprehensibly moronic people that delude themselves into thinking that their opinion is factual, you very clearly being one of them.
>>
>>144804926
Maybe there could be some adjustments. But keep in mind how much people were happy to pay in the 90s. With no other options, people will pay much.

>>144804951
People pay that for video games today, why not? And collection boxes usually cost more, at least before the prices were driven down by piracy. Think how much people pay for the collectors edition of LotR.

>>144805025
1 cour would cost $60, everyone can pay that.

>>144805161
Actually, what I had in mind was no rewatching even within the 3 days, it'd only be for people who lost internet access or wanted a break. The bar would not be possible to move, you could only pause it. But this may actually be too strict, I don't think people would like it, and for no gain either.

$80 would be for permanent access. You could also rewatch a single episode by paying another 5 bucks. The 80 is an offer for people who want to watch it over and over.

>>144805613
Keep in mind what people were willing to pay 25 years ago, this is not farfetched.
>>
>>144805591
Sauce?
>>
>>144805591
Yeah, western TV is a lot more streamlined. You don't have 150 shows of similar quality coming out every year. There's usually several "big" things in a certain demographic that everyone is watching and paying for in some manner, and that's it.
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>>144805422
>Porn isn't any worse since it essentially become a low profit industry
Yeah it is, haven't you ever heard of the Golden Age of Porn? I mean yeah it gets you off just the same which is basically the point, but production values are definitely way worse.
>>
>>144804706
This.
Anime is not Film or Videogame industry.
>>
>>144805685
>With no other options
The anime industry would sink rapidly. For every 100 people that watch anime, maybe 3 would be dedicated enough to pay such expensive prices. And of those, maybe 1 in 200 would even be capable of watching anime on a regular basis due to this. Definitely not at the same level as they may have, before.

Pointed Comment: 25 years ago anime culture was almost non-existent.
>>
>>144805685
>Think how much people pay for the collectors edition of LotR
Yeah, but that's a collector's edition of a physical copy. You're suggesting that people pay $80 for a purely digital copy of something they've already paid at least $50-60 to see with no added extras. And people pay that for special editions of video games. Again, you're getting something extra, and it's more justifiable to pay more for a video game in the first place.
>>
>>144805104
>tfw some artbooks and instruction manuals for stuff that doesn't even get sold outside japan sometimes have english translations in them
>>
>>144805140
>Akiba is probably at least 40% gaijin on any given day.
Akiba is maybe 15% gaijin on any given day. Stop bullshitting.
>>
>>144805753
The quantity of porn now has more than made up for the average quality.

Boiling this down in incredibly simplistic terms, back in the day, they'd release like 10 videos a day, and 5 of them would be good. Now 100 videos are released per day and like 14 of them are quality, plus explore a far wider arrange of different fetishes.

Porn enjoyment is definitely far better now than before the Internet.
>>
>>144805694
Do you really dispute that fact or are you just trying to ruse me like >>144804467 ?

No I don't have sauce, and I don't care enough to try to find some article on what is evident to anyone who goes outside at least once a week. inb4 I get accused of favoring anecdotal evidence.
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>>144802401
>>144802336
>>144803267
Nigger, the vast majority of foreign anime viewers are only capable of watching illegal fansubbed anime. If they banned it, there would be nothing to watch. "Piracy" has just filled the gaps left by the international market. There is no anime on American TV, there are few english language DVD releases. They aren't losing out on anything they wouldn't be without piracy.

To complain about lost shekels in the face of is fucking insulting. Rather, the unpaid work of fansubbing community has generated millions of dollars of money for the anime industry through merchandise sales, ie >>144802627 which is where the majority of the industry profits come from, not BD sales, FYI.

>>144805685
>Keep in mind what people were willing to pay 25 years ago, this is not farfetched.
No they didn't. Anime aired on TV. If you paid for satellite, like you pay for internet, and you had access to it for free. How could they give it away for free?? you ask. You see, there were ads, just like the ads that pay for kissanime's server costs

You also rented show. DVDs were MERCH bought only by the niche collector fanbase. The high prices were set for fucking rental stores, only the hardcore otaku fanbase bought it so they could have a copy for themselves. But if you had to pay $200 just to watch a half season show at all (your schema), it wouldn't have any viewers let alone a single fan willing to collect the DVD set or any other otaku merch
>>
>>144805140
From looking at travel blogs, most of the tourists visiting Akiba and similar places are normalfags who do so so they can go "haha look at this crazy japanese cartoon porn and booby figs haha maids and panties japan so weird haha".
>>
>>144802952
>the threat from piracy also forces the legal options to be artificially cheap
Attributing ANY cost to a stream is artificial, when it's provably providable free of charge through adbucks and the only thing you've to offer is not getting sued for not acquiring the legal copyright license, a 100% arbritrary legal invention
>>
>>144806130
>No I don't have sauce
That is the only thing that you needed to say. Thank you for freely admitting that you are completely uninformed about what it is that you're talking about.
>>
Nips are just fucking stupid and don't to care about money as much as the Jews in the West.

Anime viewers outside Japan absolutely eclipse those of the people just in the country. It's a fucking untapped goldmine of wealth, but they've always seem to forget that shit exists outside of Asia, which is why they never got I the imperialism game either.
>>
All we do is torrent the episodes. We're having no effect.
>>
>>144805727
Are you retarded? There are zillions of western TV shows made every year that are not huge international hits and mostly go unnoticed.
>>
>>144806167
>If they banned it, there would be nothing to watch.
The point that has been made over and over in this thread is that the reason you can't watch anime legally in most of the world is because privacy is preventing it from being a viable business.
>>
>>144806423
>which is why they never got I the imperialism game either.
>>
>>144805855
It depends on the premise. If they can only eliminate piracy of anime, or if piracy is eliminated overall. If only piracy of anime is eliminated, people would be driven to other forms of entertainment. However, if all piracy is eliminated, all forms of entetainment would be more expensive, and the prices of anime would be comparable to other forms of entertainment. And everyone want something.

About anime culture being non-existent, that's interesting to consider. But was it due to exposure, or the prices? People were willing to rent movies back then, or buy them, for high prices. It depends on how anime would end up in comparison to other entertainment, I think.

>>144805909
People pay $60 for digital copies of video games with no extras. With DLC, often more. You just have to educate the consumers about appropriate price levels. Don't think like you'd think with your current education, imagine if you are used to paying much, There is nothing inheritly more justifiable about paying more for video games, this is an example of how the industry and piracy have educated you are a consumer. An 1-cour anime and a modern video game gives about the same number of hours entertainment. You just think anime should be cheap because that's what you've been taught.
>>
>>144806423
Yeah, everyone in Japan is just stupid. It's not because it's a hard problem at all.
>>
If Japan actually started monetizing the Western market, anime would die because all of the money would go toward shit like Naruto, SAO, AoT, Berserk.
>>
>>144806211
well that's like 90% of weebs
>>
>>144806626
No, the budget of anime in all genres would increase because the western market is actually diversified. The budget of mainstream anime would increase more than that of more niche stuff, but both would benefit.
>>
>>144806507
That's completely absurd. How does "piracy" prevent CN from licensing, translating and airing anime on TV?

The only reason they don't is because of the exorbitant international costs for licensing and the lack of any significant western interest. It's a bad investment and why they only do it for huge shonens like Naruto. A microscopic niche of enthusiasts running to the internet, or entering VHS trading network, to get ahold of obscure, illegally imported, charity TL'd media that has no representation in their national market whatsoever has jack shit to do with it. Do you have any fucking idea what you're talking about?
>>
The pirates on here contribute more than some crunchy roll scrubs because they buy $200 figurines. Nips should put that shit on tv if they want ad money so bad
>>
If you cut off a hydra's head, it grows two more. They think piracy is the problem when really it is themselves. They have to strike it at the heart, they need to open up a streaming service that is free and only runs outside ads.
>>
>>144806626
>>144806813
Not to mention the creative forces inside studios could use the mainstream titles to fund more interesting stuff.
>>
>>144806591
>An 1-cour anime and a modern video game gives about the same number of hours entertainment

That's not even remotely close to being true.
>>
>>144806898
Even if it were, video games that cost that much cost more to make than a one-cour anime and deliver a more involved form of entertainment that most people find more worth paying for.
>>
>>144804757
And /a/ would be dead.
>>
>>144800574

This argument implies that illegal downloading implies lost sales, which is untrue.
>>
>>144806603
Western entertainment goes hard after illegal streams, and does so fairly successfully. If they didn't, the industry would look completely different right now.

Japan doesn't even bother because they don't even think shit exists outside their tiny little island except the Korean scourge.

Asia has always been a continent of incredibly unambitious people.
>>
>>144806995
/a/ would discuss good anime
>>
>>144806591
> You just have to educate the consumers about appropriate price levels
> imagine if you are used to paying much, There is nothing inheritly more justifiable about paying more for video games, this is an example of how the industry and piracy have educated you are a consumer.
The only appropriate price level for a digitally released videogame is $0. Just because one industry is running a scam doesn't justify another industry starting one. "Piracy" hasn't educated anyone, the free market and free flow of information has enabled the consumer - only the industry has tried to dampen that through "re-education," false advertising and legal distortions. Fucking cuck
>>
>>144806626
That already happens, what the fuck are you talking about?
>>
>>144806898
It varies a lot between games. However, it is true for many games that still sell well at that price.
>>
>>144802206
This fucking this.
>>
>>144807098
>streamers
>discuss good anime
You can only pick one
>>
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>>144807058
>>
>>144807058
Technically, the Japanese go hard against pirates too. At least the ones on their home island. Of course, they can't do anything against digital pirates in Asia outside of Japan. That's the job of whatever licensee that made a contract with the Japanese company, just like Western companies are supposed to.
So, some chink company that has the official license to make money from nip animu and mango will try to fight chink pirates stealing nip animu and mango so that they won't eat into their profit.
>>
>>144806591
>An 1-cour anime and a modern video game gives about the same number of hours entertainment.

A 13 episode anime can be greenlit and made within the same year. Sometimes even within 2 seasons depending on the studio. Most full price videogames have at least several years of development behind them.

The time investment isn't comparable. There is a reason we can see sequels for anime only seasons apart while most videogame sequels take several years unless you're something like FIFA.
>>
>>144800574
It doesn't cause a loss, what it does is deny a gain.
>>
>>144807151
It's not true for anything. The closest you could get is like a CoD campaign, but that's ignoring that anyone who buys it then plays the MP for dozens of hours.

The only thing comparable in length is shitty indie games that don't cost $60.
>>
>>144807058
A few thoughts:
-Anime viewers may be more tech literate on average so it's harder to prevent piracy from them.
-It may be significantly harder for Japan to go after piracy overseas due to things like cultural differences and the language barrier, whereas in places like the US, governments are defending their own industries when fighting piracy.
>>
>>144807226
Never even reached the west and were more concerned with conquering than governing. Even the Muslim Jihads managed reach all the way to France before they were pushed away.
>>
>>144807415
A few thoughts:
- it's not piracy
- there's no lost sales
>>
>>144806591
Comparing your model to DLC for video games is just flat out wrong, though. If you were apply that model to video games, it would be $5 per level (each of which you have a limited time to complete) and then $80 to play the whole game again with nothing added. And people would go fucking insane because that is stupid.
>>
>>144807415
The ones pirating anime definitely are.

My normal friends just watch shit like OPM on their hulu/netflix subs or if they're slightly more weeb they use CR.
>>
>>144800574
This thread is just an invitation for people to post their unsourced autistic opinions about piracy. This isn't anime.
>>
>>144807220
In this hypothetical universe, there are only streamers. And I was just making a spin in the old '/a/ doesn't talk about good anime' anyway.
>>
>>144806626
Are you retarded?
>>
>>144800574
It's bullshit. I see animu like a pirate and IF I like it AND it's licensed I'll buy it. Fuck it.
>>
>>144807427
Pretty sure that still counts as ambitious

Actually "I wanna conquer more shit" sounds a lot more ambitious than "let's settle with what we've got and properly govern this"
>>
>>144807492
Your friends are the kind of people that are more common outside the anime fandom than inside, according to my extensive anecdotal evidence.
>>
>>144807606
You won't buy shit. No need to lie on an anonymous imageboard.
>>
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>>144800574
I stopped caring about how much money I cost the anime industry when I realized that about 60% of all the anime that come out each season is shit, the other 40% is decent-good and 20% of that 40% is even worth buying or remembering. If they want my money, how about making quality anime that would stand the test of time? As much as I dislike Madoka, it stands on it's own as a memorable anime. One Punch Man and Nichijou are memorable anime for their animation. Love Live is memorable for having interesting girls with an interesting concept. Point blank - If animation studios want to make money, make good anime.
>>
>>144807632
Those are the only people where this is money from streaming or airing on TV internationally. They don't buy merchandise, unlike otakus.

Limiting access for the international "fandom" will only result in lost merchandise sales.
>>
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Pirates+buy+more
>>
>>144807689
How many 'quality anime that would stand the test of time' have you paid for?
>>
>>144807689
You realize that's an incredibly high percentage of good shit compared to literally any other medium
>>
>>144807689
>how much money I cost the anime industry
how exactly did you cost anyone anything?

you mean the server costs for the downloads? or the sub group's sweat & blood? I think they're just happy their work is appreciated, but you could always donate
>>
>>144807820
Opportunity costs.
>>
I heard Western fans are huge. Why can't they draw any good doujins?
>>
>>144807904
Western fans are physically huge.
>>
>>144807781
A shit load. Unless you mean actually importing, then not much if any.
>>144807820
The only thing I pay for willingly is CR and that's because I like to support people who make my subs. I would never, and will never, donate to people like HS.
>>
>>144807689
>If animation studios want to make money, make good anime.

I hope you don't really believe that people's taste in anime is homogenized enough to the point where "good" anime is a universal thing. Also it's impossible for everything to be good because if everything is good then "good" just becomes the new baseline. The anime that are widely esteemed are usually so because they are groundbreaking or outstanding among their peers.
>>
>>144807859
what's the alternative? learning moon runes? it's a bit of a commitment just to watch anime

>>144807999
so how exactly did you cost anyone anything?
>>
>>144807904
>Being a fan means you can inherently draw well
wewlad
>>
>>144808075
It's more like I was a missed sale that could've been profit for the anime industry, but my original post explains why it is missed.
>>
>>144808078
There must be a number of them who can draw. But they still don't make good doujins, because, despite them being "fans", they don't "get it"
>>
>tfw piracy doesn't hurt shit
>tfw DENUVO didn't save AAA title sales even though people couldn't pirate
Why wasn't this thread pruned already?

>>144807904
Western convention would never accept a R-18 doujin booth so why bother?
>>
>>144807904
I would say no Comiket, but there are some big cons in places like the US isn't there? Do they sell fanmade shit in those? There are a few western artists making money on Patreon at least.

In my small 3rd world city there's a girl who made doujinshi manga, but it's shit and I only bought because of social pressure. There's another who supposedly did it, but I've never seen it and she's retarded.
>>
>>144808137
how were you a missed sale? you would've flown to Tokyo and turned on the telly otherwise?
>>
>>144807859
Every people that doesn't watch anime is an opportunity cost.
>>
Is it really that bad to pay for anime and manga when possible? Since I got a job I feel like a have no reason to pirate.
>>
>>144808078
The motivation doesn't exist? Plus we don't have bi-annual conventions in which to sell our works.
>>
>>144807999
If you bought a shit load of anime I don't get why you're fretting about it. Piracy is not a problem if you also pay for the stuff, but you're the exception.
>>
>>144808305
>the exception
More like the rule, newfag >>144807769
>>
>>144808198
Shitty webcomic artists definitely try to sell shit at cons but that's about it.
>>
>>144808262
Nothing wrong with, unless you mean you pay for CR then you should an hero.
>>
>>144808262
I can afford to pay for subscriptions to all the trash sites but I prefer the quality of fansubs and fan encodes.
>>
>>144800574
If I made an anime that broke even and stopped getting sales then I've effectively not made any money.

If the very next day 7 billion peopple pirated that anime the amount of money I've made or lost hasn't changed at all.

Claiming that people lose money due to piracy is simply not true. It costs the person nothing when someone gets something for free. It's not stealing, it's creating a copy using one's own independent resources.
>>
>>144808386
We're a talking about anime, not mainstream shit.
>>
>>144808262
Eh, buy whatever localized or original anime, manga or related merchandise you want.

The important thing is that you do spend money for it in the end.
>>
>>144808216
I don't know what point you were trying make but anyway. No, I'm a missed sale because I decided to download the anime for free instead of buying it from legal sources. Therefore my money doesn't go towards the people who made the anime, therefore it is a missed sale. A opportunity to make money but it didn't happen.
>>
I pirate because I can. I don't justification like some piratefags.

I pirate because I don't a fuck.

>inb4 ''wow ur so edgy dude''
>>
>>144808505
Jesus fuck im retarded.

need*
give*
>>
>>144808505
wow so edgy dude
>>
>>144808505
Learn English to a competent level before trying to speak it.
>>
>>144808423
If 7 billion people were going to pirate something, but were prevented, a fraction X of those 7 billion would pay for it, thus making the producer filthy fucking rich. If you call the difference 'losing money' or not is irrelevant.
>>
>>144808546
It's late, give me a break.
>>
>>144808578
You're making an assumption. The only thing that's fact is that 7 billion people pirated it. You cannot prove that anyone would have had interest in it or bought it if they couldn't pirate it.
>>
>>144808411
Honestly I like the convenience of being able to watch anime on any device without fucking with media server stuff. But if there were actual reasons why I shouldn't and should instead put my money else where, I might be convinced.
>>
>>144807904
Because Westerners can't get the style correct. It almost always looks like westernized trash. I'd post an example, but I don't save that garbage. They usually just don't "get" it.
>>
>>144808499
>buying it from legal sources
What does this mean? Where can you buy it internationally?

You can overpriced DVDs intended for rental stores, only purchased by hardcore buyfags

You can pay streaming sites for a limited selection with shit quality video and subs

That's it. It's not in the same in Japan and not what their industry relies on. They don't give a shit about the international market and the our markets haven't provided any means of access to the industry. We don't get anime on TV, we can't rent it anywhere. No sales are lost, there's not even a market.

The only option for access is to either engage in the 'illegal' underground community or pay exorbitant prices to import as buyfags. There is no lost sale.

For fuck's sake, the entire international culture itself wouldn't EXIST without your evil "illegal piracy". There would be NO anime culture. Any "lost sales" themselves would've never had the OPPORTUNITY to be lost if it wasn't for piracy. How dense can you be?
>>
>>144808666
It's a reasonable assumption. >>144802401
>>
>>144808578
You're wrong. None of those 7 billion would pay for it, first of all, the number would be out of 100,000 because no one would've heard about it in the first place. And then, none of those interested in it would be able to watch it, because it's piracy to release fansubs. The end.
>>
Anime needs a massive rejuvenation, like the rest of the Japanese economy, it's become massively insular, stagnant and stubborn over the past decade and a half. Japan legitimately is decades behind the west when it comes to doing business, practices etc etc, Japans finance system for example is still all cash, cheques, paper etc instead of digital, until only a few years ago, ATMs literally "shut" on weekends and at 5pm.

I think Anime needs a serious injection of new blood and new markets and by this, I know it's a massively unpopular opinion, I think there needs to be a bigger bridging of Japan and the west when it comes to anime production, bring over western writers to work with Anime studios and vice versa, get Netflix actually seriously funding joint anime productions.

Imagine an anime show with the writing of Stranger things or Madmen or The Wire. Imagine amazing western show runners given the freedom that anime and animation gives you, ffs get Jodorowsky to work with Masaaki Yuasa to make his Dune movie or Ridley Scott to work with Production IG to make a Blade Runner series or things along those lines.

I honestly believe the next big revolution in anime will be along these lines, a massive boost in writing quality that will see anime hit mainstream audiences in the west again as a serious medium.

Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Cowboy Bebop etc show that you can have serious anime shows hit mainstream appeal in the west.

Hell I wouldn't be against an anime series of Star Trek or Star Wars or some other major IP.
>>
I don't understand why people think paying for Crunchyroll and other services is anywhere near a reasonable value proposition outside of USA. The amount of titles is very limited and yet you're asked to pay for the same amount of money for it.

Also, you need to subscribe to multiple different services since the anime simulcasting is still based on exclusivity, not on value to customer. So you need to get multiple subscriptions to see everything that they decided to license for your region.
>>
>>144808747
If we're going to play mental games with this then consider this.

If your series has 10 million people pirating it then some of those 10 million people will tell their friends and make the series more popular. A more popular series will sell more.
>>
>>144804133
Have you seen the copyright laws in Japan? They make the DMCA look like a joke.
>>
>>144808740
>Where can you buy it internationally?
Go to any buyfag thread and they literally tell you how to buy internationally. Unless you're from some shitty third world country, you shouldn't have this problem.

Also you clearly have me on the wrong side of the argument. I said at the beginning if the anime is good enough, people will buy. If you loved an anime you downloaded enough to where you want to own it, you will find a way regardless of lack of ways to buy.
>>
>>144808875
No thanks Mr Globalist.
>>
>>144808875
Fuck off. Contemporary western TV is fucking terrible. They can keep it marketing is a renaissance all they want, the only genuinely high quality thing to come out of the long form fad, even though it largely predates it, was The Wire. And the only thing more cancerous to anime than injecting western narrative traditions is injecting cinematic direction.

You don't know a fucking thing about anime and your taste in TV/cinema seems like basic as fuck, too
>>
>>144808875
Smell like pasta.
T. someone who does everything cash
>>
>>144800574
Anime is popular in the west because it's piss-easy to pirate and thus essentially free.
>>
I have probably supported the industry more with my collection of figurine than you plebs who use CR.
>>
>>144809047
Well, so are cartoons and movies and live-action series.
>>
>>144809072
It was until kickass went down.
>>
>>144809052
>tfw buying LN to keep my drive to learn moonrunes
I know that feel
>>
>>144809011
>Contemporary western TV is fucking terrible.

Contemporary western TV shits all over the LN ridden dogshit that is modern anime.

95% of anime these days has worse writing than Twilight.
>>
>>144809052
I do both.
>>
>>144808959
You could make that argument for other mediums, but as thing currently stand, an anime becoming more popular just makes it pirated more. That argument held water when fansubs were new, people argued that they would help disseminate anime, and it did, anime is popular now, but that's useless if no one can sell anime. Furthermore, you're ignoring the fact that advertising would exist if you could sell anime with it, but you can't. Everyone just pirates it.
>>
>>144809118
Opinion
>>
>>144808980
What I meant was, where you can buy it locally outside of Japan.
Nobody in Japan has to go through efforts to import anime internationally out of pure moral virtue. Nobody but otaku buys physical DVD's of their favorite shows. Not a single person in all of Nippon buys DVD's of everything they watch. It's on fucking television, they watch it just like you do on the internet - with zero cost or commitment

>If you loved an anime you downloaded enough to where you want to own it, you will find a way regardless of lack of ways to buy.
so how have you cost anyone anything?

>>144809118
Go home redditor
>>
>>144809192
Like vidya, but vidya has proven that a pirated copy =/= a sale with Denuvo.
>>
Most anime fucking sucks, I'm sure as hell I wouldn't pay for it except for like my top 5.
>>
>>144809192
>when fansubs were new, people argued that they would help disseminate anime, and it did, anime is popular now
>non-existant foreign audience
>'pirates' singlehandedly create audience through their own charity work
>audience is now potential sales lost to 'pirates'
OY VEY SHUT IT DOWN
>>
>>144809366
But did you buy your top 5?
>>
>>144809118
>>144809366
>I hate anime but I come on /a/

Someone explain this meme to me?
>>
>>144805685
>1 cour would cost $60, everyone can pay that.
Are you retarded? No one is going to pay fucking $60 to watch four hours of TV. Especially not the kind who actually watch anime regularly, because that'd be like 1-2K every three months for me.
>>
>>144800574
Good thing I download all of my anime instead of streaming it. It's good to know I'm doing my part.
>>
>>144809424
People feel patrician when they say that kind of thing.
>>
>>144809432
The moralfags ITT seem to be confused that have forgotten anime is TV and nips don't buy DVD's of everything they want to watch.
>>
>>144808875
>I honestly believe the next big revolution in anime will be ... a massive boost in writing quality

Dream on. The anime industry is powered by otaku, and they don't give two shits how "well-written" something is. They just want to fap.
>>
>>144809424
I mostly read manga, watch very few anime series, at most like 2 or 3 a year since the rest of it is aimed at otaku manchildren anyways.
>>
I won't deny that CR is helping some of the studio over in Japan but you need to realize that fansubbers aren't doing it for free.

You also supporting the shitty fansubber fag working at CR.

This is what prevent me from using CR.
>>
>>144809305
The difference is that gamers will play a shitload of games, then buy a few. Weebs will watch a shitload of anime, then buy a few games.
>>
>>144809432
This. The addicts won't pay it because with how much anime they watch and how little they work, they literally could not afford to pay it, and the normalfags won't pay it because they could be watching two movies on the big screen for about a quarter of that.
>>
>>144809424
Australians.
>>
>>144809595
Ironically, people with this attitude tend to be the ones who ruin manga threads with their shitty opinions and low power levels.
>>
>>144809595
>since the rest of it is aimed at otaku manchildren anyways
And manga isn't?
>>
>>144809602
>You also supporting the shitty fansubber fag working at CR.
Who does CR even hire?
>>
>>144809909
GG subbers.
>>
>>144809405
this so much
>>
>>144809595
>being elitist about anime when you mainly read shit meant as light reading for commuters and schoolchildren
>>
I honestly would pay for CR and "help the anime industry" (I buy as much merch as I can), but fuck their subs so much.
>>
>>144809855
I'm not that anon and I already hate him in fact, but manga is much more varied and aimed at broader audiences than the stuff that gets adapted into anime.
>>
>>144809855
Manga is a much larger medium and way easier to produce, you just need like $30 bucks in materials and the artist willing to do it for it to be made whereas for an anime episode you need a whole team of people working on it for it to be released. With this in mind you can easily deduce that anime series need to have comercial success to justify the inversions made therefore studios aim at the lowest demographic possible that will eat up all their products and mostly make a safe bet, on the other hand mangaka can produce whatever they really feel like because there's no such risks, producing a more interesting artistic medium.
>>
>>144810007
I'd say it's pretty similar apart from the experimental artsy stuff.
>>
>>144810070
You'd be wrong. Read more manga.
>>
>>144810048
Do you live in some magical world without editors and publishers rejecting stuff for it not being approachable enough?
>>
>>144809011
>Contemporary western TV is fucking terrible

Source: /a/
>>
>>144810096
What sort of stuff doesn't get adapted?
>>
>>144810048
What this anon said + the fact that manga is huge in Japan. It's a much bigger industry than anime. Everyone reads manga.
>>
>>144810122
Doujins exist m8. It's not like the only magazines that exist are shonen jump and shonen sunday
>>
>>144810048
Both have to cater to the wants of the plebs if they want to get anywhere unless it's pornographic in nature, I'd trust the medium that's made buy a large team of professionals than a random guy who does the art and writing himself on a strict as fuck budget.
>>
>>144800574
The premise is flawed, unauthorized copying does not cause revenue losses, no more than someone choosing not to watch anime is a loss for the industry.
>>
>>144810197
Unless Batoto doesn't allow doujins the only popular ones I've seen are web comics and you already know how they can be.
>>
You people should make a trip to Japan and take a look at Japanese bookstore.
>>
>>144800574
No chill your beans.
>>
Sometimes /a/ makes me feel bad for wanting to support the industry.
>>
>>144810153
Not him, but there are entire magazines dedicated to golf, for example. And magazines directed at middle-aged normalfags, full of SoLs about salarymen going fishing with their bosses, and lawyer comedies, and stuff like that. And shoujo/josei magazines dedicated entirely to fantasy/sci-fi, not high school romance. And so on.
>>
>>144810202
The thing is that anime is pre-selected using less than ideal criteria, whereas manga is selected by yourself.
>>
>>144810467
That all sounds cute as fuck, why doesn't it get translated?
>>
>>144810533
Because fan-translating is a thankless job. Anything too niche is probably not worth it.
>>
>>144810145
I work in the film, actually, but in any case, /a/'s a better source than /tv/
>>
>>144810638
At least then they wouldn't have to worry about getting their projects stolen and freaking out.
>>
>>144810672
Eh, I won't claim to understand how the people who translate shit thinks. I'd never do it.
>>
>>144810669
You work in the film? That's cool, which one?
>>
>>144810735
I'd probably only do it if a series I liked was being scanlated by people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

It really gets me when I see people who don't even spend 5 minutes doing basic cleaning, it's ridiculously simple even if you're a beginner at Photoshop.
>>
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>>144800574
if there was a company that did professional subs instead of funimation dubs they'd make western money just fine.
despite it being popular over here, it isn't actually meant for here, we're not parasites, as we aren't their target audience.
the work subgroups (in their free time where they could be watching anime untranslated) put in on the (initially pirated by nips) copies to make them viewable to a western audience is nothing to be scoffed at, and if companies paid these groups small bounties to translate episodes they could be released onto a company website for microtrans or membership model digital download as well as produce ad revenue, hell selling translated episodes to netflix or those shitty 'anime central' channel packages even, there are tonnes of ways people could potentially pay them, if we actually had the option.

so in short, no, we don't cost them a damn thing, infact we make them money by importing figures that would otherwise be bought by nips or binned.
they simply could make a lot more money from the west, if they gave a damn to.
>>
>>144810514
It's an extremely shallow criteria for artistic agency. You sound 16 with your misguided idealism. Not all studios are interested in money only - many respected ones today spent long periods on the brink of bankruptcy while producing non-standard auteuristic anime, shitting out seasonal trash on the side to fund their primary projects. The OVA boom also occurred exactly for that opportunity to sidestep commercialism. To think that anime is inherently impure on account of its costs of production speaks to your total lack of exposure to culture beyond trash mediums like manga, as it it would be true of cinema, theater, as well as music and literature before the internet.

And manga still has a large cost attributed to its production & distribution, there are still strict editors and tons and tons of junk produced for the market. How much manga have you read that was actually doujins and not just "alternative" style but professional released? And your perception of it is skewed by TL filtering only the notable stuff.

>>144810786
industry*

>>144810909
There wouldn't even be ANY anime fans in the west for them to sell to if it wasn't for the subgroups' work.
>>
>>144811017
nah, dubs man, cheap cartoons imported from asia have been a staple for like 40 years now

lupin the third's dub ran from, October 24, 1971 – March 26, 1972
>>
>>144811017
Except other mediums aren't as restricted by their fanbase as anime. Movies and videogames, even if they cost even more money than anime to produce, are consumed by most people in every civilized country daily and they are willing to pay for it. Literature is also heavily marketed and distributed all around the world. Music costs little to nothing to produce and the majority of humanity enjoys it. All these traditional and succesful artistic mediums have been entertaining humans for ages (except for movies, which is a pretty new medium) and are widely accepted so you can't really compare them to manga and the newborn baby that is anime.
Now if you consider the market reach of anime and compare it to manga you have the following:
Both are restrained within a market that basically exists in only one small ass country, except that manga is consumed by fucking everybody while anime is mainly bought only by otaku losers.
>>
>>144811017
Honestly, if you can't see how the ease of making manga allows for much more variety, I don't care enough to argue.
>TL filtering only the notable stuff.
Indeed, but I can read Japanese.
>>
>>144811017
To a large extent he's right though. You say there are "respected [studios]" that edged on bankruptcy to do something artistically valid, however it is precisely because those are the exception that they are respected. It's a good rule of thumb that the larger and more commercially meddled in a project is the less pure and resounding any artistic message is going to be. his sort of rule of thumb applies to nearly all the arts, not just the current topic of discussion.
In manga while it is absolutely true that there are many of the same types of censors and barriers to entry. Yet it's still much more likely that in the end the message will be less tampered with than a comparative project done by an anime studio where many more people and much more risk is involved. Not even to mention the alternate routes to publishing and proving yourself that manga makes possible that would be impossible or improbable for anime.

Again to be clear that isn't to say that there aren't people and studios who act as patrons and attempt to further the arts ahead of their own wallet, but they are likely the exception and not the rule.
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>>144811464
>newborn baby that is anime
Anime's been around for about as long as manga and TV/movies, though.
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>>144808386
>Pirates have more money for other things
>They have more money to spend on said other things instead of Animu

Why are you acting like this is some sort of shocking revelation? When people have more disposable income, the average person goes out and spends more on non-essential goods and services, aka: disposes of it. You might be too young or too UNAMERICAN to remember the stimulus checks tax payers got back in 2008. Most people either bought something new like a TV, or they paid their bills and later spent the bill money on something like a TV which is the same net result but you 'feel better about being responsible'.

If I can save the money for things I and my family actually need, I would be a fool to do otherwise.

Other people who still spend their 'saved' money on merchandise, well that's their prerogative but it's still because they have the extra cash.
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>>144811464
Having a niche audience with distinct tastes doesn't mean it's any more restricted to its audience than pandering to a mass audience. It's arguably more ideal, because you have an enthuisast community with deep engagement as your primary commercial market, allowing otakus to become successful directors - literary fiction or auteur films, on the other hand, don't sell.

>Music costs little to nothing to produce
The costs for physical reproduction & distribution were very relevant in the pre-digital, especailly pre-cassete age.

>>144811583
Manga that's not commercial trash is the exception, too, and I'd argue it's to a much more extreme degree. There are tons and tons of trash manga produced compared to the relatively tiny number of talented mangakas producing works of value. The only difference is those few mangaka have much less to worry about than the anime auteur.

>>144811490
I didn't suggest it doesn't, I just said it has its own barrier of entry, too. It's only a matter of a degree.

Also, it's idiotic and tasteless to think that works catering to the commercial market cannot have artistic merit. Have you been living under a rock for the last half century or are you just completely uninformed about art beyond pop culture?
>>
>>144811598
Not him, but anime as it's own thing is much more new. Older anime was much more like a copy of cartoons coming out of the US and the early film business. Cartoons, who in turn, didn't really differentiate themselves from any film in the early days. Though I still definitely wouldn't call it a new thing, just newer than movies and TV.
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>>144811464
>mediums

The plural of medium is media. You sound dumb as hell when you say "mediums."
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>>144809011
>>144809118

They're both great depending on your taste and what you watch.

Now go hate suck each other off. You faggots are obviously tsundere for each other..
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>>144811692
>Why are you acting like this is some sort of shocking revelation?
I'm not, that's why I called him a newfag. Everyone knows pirates buy more.

>>144811768
>Not him, but anime as it's own thing is much more new. Older anime was much more like a copy of cartoons coming out of the US and the early film business.
The same is completely true of manga
>>
>>144802336

Oh look, the "Every case of piracy is a lost sale" fallacy that has widely been disproven in literally every other industry in the world.
>>
>>144811827
Name one of those 1 hour long "intellectual" dramas from the last decade better than the Wire.
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>>144811751
>Also, it's idiotic and tasteless to think that works catering to the commercial market cannot have artistic merit. Have you been living under a rock for the last half century or are you just completely uninformed about art beyond pop culture?

I don't know why you're assuming those things about me. I watch and enjoy anime too. I never meant to imply anime is without merit. It seems like you're getting defensive because of the troll that spawned this discussion.
>>
>>144811889
That post is not committing that fallacy. I know because I made it with it specifically in mind.
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>>144811895
I never said one was better than the other and i'm not going to. The Wire is fucking great and so critically acclaimed that getting into an argument that something is better than it, even if that's my opinion, is like diving onto a spear because I claim it's terribly crafted.
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>>144811940
You understand this is an anonymous imageboard? I'm responding to the points made ITT, not to you.
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>>144811768
1995 to be precise.
>>
>>144811751
>Manga that's not commercial trash is the exception, too, and I'd argue it's to a much more extreme degree. There are tons and tons of trash manga produced compared to the relatively tiny number of talented mangakas producing works of value.

Do you consider talent and artistic intent the same? I'd say that even a talentless hack trying to get their message across sincerely is more artistically pure than a talented director making a cash grab. Well in either case I think it's also pertinent to recall that the manga industry's production volume is much larger, mostly due to smaller cumulative costs, than the anime industries. So perhaps sheer number of producers, good or bad, is not the best judge.

Well in any case I guess I'll have to cede the point, as I'm not an anime nor manga expert of any kind and I doubt I can convincingly argue with any detail.
>>
>>144802952
Piracy is the only reason I watch anime. It was free entertainment that allowed me to watch shows I normally wouldn't have.

I've thought about buying a few dvd/bd sets for my favorite shows to support them, but the insane ass prices keep me from doing so. If the industry sells currently is selling stuff at "artificially cheap" prices then frankly the anime industry deserves to die, be it through piracy or realizing not enough autistic people can pay for their bullshit.
>>
>>144809424
Liking anime doesn't mean you have to like shitty LN adaptions.
>>
>>144812024
Every time you replied to me, you seemed to think I hate anime. I don't. That's all.
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>>144812118
Yes it does.
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>>144812023
Well fine, name what you think is good enough to be listed alongside it. My point is just that contemporary TV is dying, not in a renaissance, and hasn't had a truly great release, with inspired narrative, cinematography & acting in years. The OP obviously believes modern television to be something anime should look up to. But we don't have shows like Twin Peaks or X-Files anymore, instead we get objective trash like Mr Robot and Game of Thrones that people praise for no reason other than I can tell other than it's marketed in a way that makes you feel smart with good taste for watching it, like the kind of non fiction books you find in airport bookstores

>>144812270
But Fargo was diluted trash compared to the film. I stopped at episode 2. I only found Mad Men to be alright. First season had terrible writing, 2 - 4 were passable and the setting, art direction and character design were solid enough, though conservative. Hardly anything to write home about.

>>144812079
>Do you consider talent and artistic intent the same?
No. Talent usually refers to talent in craft, it's skill with the medium. Artistry is more effectual or intellectual in nature. They're appreciated in different ways. But there's no reason there can't be artistry in craft. Given the constraints of genre, you can still produce a work of art, ie a film that perfectly employs the tropes and aesthetics of the crime genre can be just as appreciated as the one that engages with and breaks them down critically.

>>144812128
Okay but I'm not replying to you, I'm replying to the argument. The initial poster derided anime in comparison to manga for the fact of its barrier to entry, that's the debate here.
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>>144802140
I literally have 0 monies to spend on chinese cartoons. I just wouldnt watch it.
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>>144807058
>Western entertainment goes hard after illegal streams, and does so fairly successfully
Western entertainment is unable, or doesn't care, to stop something as organized as streams of sports event. It's a highly predictable highly popular situation and it's still going as strong as ever. shit things are probably better now for pirates than in the early 10s.
>>
>>144804757
What the fuck is this retarded nonsense.
>>
>>144805685
A game with 30+ hours of content is worth $60. OWNING a 4 hour single cour isn't.
>>
Let's all go back to only watching anime licenced by Toonami and morning cartoon blocks and talking about it at lunch at school.

I love Robotech and Sailor Moon guys.
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>>144803976
That's nice the Japanese are noticing us but CR is not how I would like to pay them
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>>144802952
you underestimate how poor i am.
>>
i hope it dies tbqh
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>>144804757
>>
>>144804768
that's the whole point of this thread you daffy shit
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>>144805753
Just watch jav instead, west can't get anything right
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>>144805166
Creators of the medium don't always want to do something just for the phat cash it (doesn't) rake in. There are things called passion projects, like Stranger.
>>
>>144805443
Ockhams Razor
>>
If Steam provided episodes early with good subs and perfect encoding, I wouldn't mind tossing a dollah their way every episode. If it means they make Season 2s more often it will be worth it.
>>
>>144807415
A few thoughts to add to what the other anon said:
-they know we aren't going to watch Loli panty quest in the masses and no effort is worth getting a few nerds to buy it instead of pirate
>>
>>144804757
People like this are the reason why the world is run by jews.
>>
>>144800574
No. While its true that if you forced a paywall to access the media then you'd probably have a more stable income based off the the show it would also eat into your merchandising sales as you'd probably have a lot less exposure.

By being less hands on for piracy shows tend to get be distributed far more widely than they normally would and people are much more willing to watch a show they might not have otherwise watched. And those that they enjoy they are more likely going to spend money on merchandise or the disk hard copies.

By watching shows and discussing them and promoting them by telling others to watch them fundamentally we're doing far more good than just purely pirating the shows. And i truly believe that like other's here if we had to pay to watch them there'd be a lot less of us watching.

I know I don't keep up with any western shows that I can only get through cable, because I just don't own a cable subscription. To me it just isn't worth the money. I only watch sports and Anime. and Instead of paying for a sports cable package I just pirate the televised games and go watch games live more often than i would have otherwise. Likewise I'll pirate anime, but I'll by the occasional figma that otherwise i wouldn't have gotten. Though lately I have been considering subscribing to a streaming service as I am less and less attached to physical objects and would rather just give money directly to the creators without having to get anything in return. I want to support the studios I like without having to go through the trouble of buying anything or paying for shipping or having a middle man service skim some of that money off the top.
>>
>>144800574
I might be showing my age here. But they said the same exact shit back in the early 90s at anime conventions by R1 licensors. Except back then they were bitching about illegal VHS fansub tapes. And yet many years later the anime industry is still alive.
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>>144806591
People pay 60 bucks for digital copies of video games that have huge brands and literal fucking hundreds of millions of marketing behind them. And EVEN THEN a lot of people, especially the ones that do not play on consoles are very upset about the prices of video games right now which is why most full indie or not AAA titles release at 20-40 dollars instead on PC. Because they understand that consumers aren't stupid and they won't buy into your shitty game for 60 fucking dollars unless they are retarded. It's better to sell a good product for slightly less if you can guarantee more sales and better reception of the game.

Fucking nobody will pay 60 dollars for a shitty 1-cour anime unless we're talking about the absolute giants of popularity like Type-Moon shit.What you're suggesting is complete destruction of anime in west instead of capitalizing on the untapped market like CR except making it not fucking shit.

Conclusion: you're a moron.
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>>144800574
no, freedom has granted more exposure of anime and resulted in international success, you don't suddenly start putting a label with a price tag and do it the other way around.
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>>144800574
>Are we parasites fucking up anime?
The issue is not the existence of piracy in itself, but accessibility. At all times, the popularity and prominence or piracy is affected by how accessible a product is, which is obvious if you see how much more effective competing with piracy is compared to trying to prevent it.

People are more likely to pay for a product if it's more accessible. Trying to guilt-trip pirates into not pirating does nothing and trying to prevent pirating just harms to paying customers and encourages pirating as the more convenient and accessible method of acquiring the product. The established business model also has an effect on this.

Merchandise and BDs are sold for outrageous prices because the anime industry is cashing on the presence of hardcore fans that are ready to throw all of their money away. Since this has been established over the decades, the more casual audience has no way to access the product and lowering the price does jack shit to fix sales because only the established audience of obsessive Otaku is willing to spend a lot of money in the first place because of how the big prices have scared off any other potential customers early on.

Crunchy as a platform has shown that there is potential to idea of making anime more accessible through the internet by opening up to an outside audience that hasn't been scared off by the original business model, but the system is still in its infancy and since most of the money remains in Crunchy's hands, it does little to actually earn money for the companies in Japan, giving little incentive to expand further.

Basically, rampant piracy is as much of a problem as it is a symptom of the issues with the industry itself and a sign that it's best to have the industry change itself rather than to waste efforts on clamping down on piracy (which is virtually unstoppable).
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>>144802206
Fuck me. I agree with you and I hate myself for it.
>>
>>144802554
are you ok?
>>
>>144800574
Watching a restream isn't that much worse than watching on TV, doubly so if you're a foreigner. If anything pirated anime increases the chances someone will like a show and buy merchandise from it. Clickbait authors should be gassed.
>>
This whole thread reminds me of the comic book artist on /co/

http://comicsalliance.com/underground-4chan-steve-lieber-sales-pirated-scans/
>>
the problem with paying for anime is that the prices are ridiculous. Apparently in Japan they'll pay any price the producer dictates for this crap. Maybe selling a lot internationally would bring the price down to something reasonable, but they're never going to start selling internationally at 50+ dollars for a blu-ray with 2 episodes on it.
>>
1 - Piracy in the west doenst matter.
2 - Piracy in Japan does matter, but cant be fought so its pointless discussing it.
3 - Piracy in China does matter, and one of the reasons why any efforts to fight piracy in West would nto matter.
4 - Anime is doing fine
5 - Netflix is saving anime
6 - Almost no anime this season is actually worth buying. Most of this anime is also made to promote product. There is zero point restricting its viewership, seeing as it airs on Japanese TV anyway.
>>
>>144802206
This. If I was forced to pay for the trash Funimation and CR pump out I'd just finish my backlog and give up on anime altogether. As is Funimation is so awful I'll drop any show carried by them if there is no fansub using a TV raw. I'm amazed at the fact that western anime fans are retarded enough to actually pay for stuttering video, eye-burning contrast, and subs so bad that Commie meme-subs seem brilliant by comparison.
>>
Is no one gonna mention that Crunchyroll started out as a fucking illegal streaming site, and made money by illegally charging people money for higher quality streams.
>>
Not really, If anime couldn't be pirated, then people would just stop watching it. It's not rocket science.
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>>144807904
No good platform, community or incentive. Though that is slowly changing from what I've been seeing.
>>
>>144800574
Considering that the medium only ever gained a foothold in the west due to VHS tape sharing I'd say that piracy has helped them more than anything.

Also, these "studies" also don't mean much when they're little more than a glorified marketing pitch for a paid solution to a problem they invented. Without piracy it's likely their wouldn't be a western consumer base at all, such as it is.
>>
>>144807904
>Western fans are huge
We also have huge guts.

But to answer your question, mainly because there is no particularly good incentive to do so. The japs have a pretty legitimized marketplace and fanbase for doujin stuff, and it's often seen as a way as making a name for yourself. In the west not only would it be hard to get the same sort of commercialization and fanbase going pornographic or not, but for the most part in nearly any career you want to go into it looks bad if anyone can trace fan cartoon (porn) mags back to you.
>>
>>144800574
Obviously, if each of us payed for all the anime we've ever watched, the industry would be much better off.

Are you retarded?
>>
>>144814192
I'm guessing you have no idea how many businesses started like that.
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>>144815861
> significant losses
Learn to read, retard.
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>>144814061
So sell it at like USD 1 or 2 per episode. The longer the series the more it costs, and perhaps the higher the production value the higher it goes. Since its a by-episode basis the watcher can drop it at any time and only spend a minimal amount, while someone who finishes it would have spent about 13~26 for the average series these days.

Not great but miles and miles better than the ROI on videogames. If a million overseas anons threw a buck at the studio every episode (so maybe 0.5-0.6 after all overheads?), that's a big load of money that will definitely make them consider making more seasons of high-viewership low-merchandise-performance shows.
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>>144815993
Are you claiming that a significant portion of businesses started as illicit operations?
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>>144816213
the most honest man is a thief
>>
Some of the guys here trying to find justifications are just hilarious.
For years I torrented most all of the stuff I watched but I certainly didn't take the moral high ground, I knew that I was a scummy stealing roach, didn't make excuses and actually felt bad for it.
Some of you are so entitled it's mind boggling.
If you don't like the rules just change hobbies, or at least recognize you are a stealing cockroach.

Anyway, by paying for CR/Funi or buying licensed stuff you are not helping the industry directly but you certainly are indirectly.
If CR acquires more users or Funi sells more BDs, that puts Jap distributors in a position that allows them to ask for higher licensing fees, which brings more money to the industry.
>>
>>144816645
Pirating is definitely wrong but it definitely isn't stealing.
>>
>>144816362
You know, just because something sounds cool doesn't make it true.
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>>144816645
Shit pasta.
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>>144816747
but you can always trust a thief to be up to no good
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>>144816645
If your faux moralfag anus is chapped that easily it's your business, but no one wants to hear you whine and cry about how tortured you were by copying data of your own volition.
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>>144816909
It's not about being a moralfag, just not looking for excuses.
If you torrent stuff at least be true to your actions and say you pirate because you don't give a fuck without spouting the usual "B-BUT IT'S NOT STEALING, I SWEAR" bullshit
>>
>>144802905
Free money
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>>144817168
Right, because lecturing on about how everyone should do what you say, and must ascribe to the same judgement you make, isn't the worst kind of moralfaggotry. It's painfully obvious you are trying to externalize your own warped worldview onto us to feel better about violating your own tenets. So fuck off with your whiny bullshit ya mangy cunt.
>>
>>144816645
>didn't take the moral high ground
You just did though.
>>
>>144817299
Your statement is so fucking retarded it's almost not worth responding to.
By writing a comment I'm expressing my opinion on the subject, not only I don't expect you to consider it, I don't give a single fuck whether you follow it or not.
Do you think that any opinion that doesn't follow the circlejerk should be banned?
>>
>>144816645
If I had bought anime instead of pirating them for let's say $60 a pop, which is in between the average price for old/new anime.

You know how much I'd have spent with just the anime I've been tracking over the past few years?

Ten thousand fucking dollars.

You can go to heck if you want me to pay that you moralfag.
>>
>>144817423
I'm not saying you should by everything, just don't make shitty excuses, see >>144817168
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>>144817467
*buy everything
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>>144817411
Right because
>If you don't like the rules just change hobbies, or at least recognize you are a stealing cockroach.

Really sounds like you are just innocuously offering your opinion, certainly not being a whiny little faggot trying to moralize and proselytize

>W-well I pirate too but at least I feel bad about it (not like that stopped me from doing it though) you all should stop feeling any other way about it because it's wrong abloo bloo

Kill yourself outta /a/ you piece of dogshit

Of course that's just my opinion though :^)
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>>144800574
no because i wouldn't fucking pay for anime if it was the only way i could watch it

i wouldn't watch it at all
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>>144817562
>you're a cuck if you ever feel obligated to give money for something you could get for free
Are the /pol/ edgesters leaking again?
>>
>>144817467
>don't make shitty excuses
Just opened the thread, ain't gonna read through every single post up there.

Quote those excuses. To my memory, /a/ is simply apathetic to pirating, not defensive.
>>
>>144817467
Some excuses are valid though, should I really feel obligated to buy the product when the hobbyists that do it for free provide it so much better?

Pirating is a mess and I prefer to just not give a fuck.
>>
>>144814061
It's because DVD's were initially only produced to sell to rental stores and priced accordingly. Otaku would buy them at the retailer price to obtain their own personal copies when consumer releases weren't available, as it was for most niche shows, so they kept the standard going.

Only a very tiny minority buys anime. OVA's are the only exception. Moralfags in the west have completely misinterpreted how the anime industry works, they get the vast majority of their money from merchandise.

>>144816645
>>144817299
Go home, redditor
>>
>>144817630
>time & effort are not a cost
are you on the spectrum, tripfag?
>>
>>144817699
Pretty much the only time pirating is a legit option is when the """localizers""" intentionally fuck up badly, where purchasing the butchered product will only encourage more of the same.
>>
>>144817872
If only people would realise this about CR and Funi, they can't keep getting away with the quality they're vomiting out.
>>
>>144817953
>a shitty crossboard meme was used in a shitty crossboarder comic so I can use it, too
Fuck off.
>>
>>144817467
You're mistaken, redditor. Pirates don't have any need to make any excuse, their attitude is perfectly rational and sensible. Moralfags like you are the only ones who need to justify yourself. Why buy something you can obtain for the same quality or better more conveniently for free?

If support/donate to the creators is your excuse, that's fine, it's perfectly valid. But why the fuck would I need an excuse to justify not donating?
>>
>>144818004
>directly discussing the comic's argument is not allowed because it used a no-no word
>>
>>144800574
No, it literally doesn't touch the anime industry, because they only sell to nips
>>
>>144817953
>boo hoo muh super important post was deleted
>>
>>144818046
>you have to use retarded memes that the comic uses in order to discuss it
I think you might be autistic.
>>
>Really like Type-Moon shit
>Loves KnK
>Decide to support it
>Those BD prices
Aaaahahahaha

NO

This is why I'll always pirate.
>$400+ for movies where without piracy I'd have no idea if they were good or not
You can SUCK my nuts desu
>>
Piracy is largely a distribution problem.
There is absolutely no bearable way to legally get anime in the west, therefore there is no reason to do it.
And no fucking streaming bullshit is not acceptable.
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>>144818144
>you can discuss its assertions without referencing its assertions
>>
>>144800574
Hard not to pirate something not even legally available in your country. I mean some select titles are, but that's a drop in the bucket. Also, non-english subs a shit.
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>>144818140
>based janitors, cleaning up 4chan from the problematic shitlords
>>
>>144805113
ITunes like store where you can download competently encoded subbed anime for between $1 and $2 per episode and get discounts on batches. This includes a library of older shows and isn't region locked. This means that the same infrastructure and outlay works both domestically and internationally without international third parties and means people pay to watch rather than the publisher having to pay a station to air it. The knock on effect is that studios and publishers can get direct and immediate feed back about viewing figures and retention giving a better picture of what is popular with viewing audiences.
>>
>>144818504
>download
International publishers can't avoid using some sort of DRM due to the legal bullshit so it can only be streaming, as sad as this sounds.
>>
>>144806626
Anything but idolshit
>>
>>144802140
anime isn't worth spending money on unless you have nothing else better to buy
>>
>>144800574
as long as some CEO ass fucking hole gets 100 million a year to do nothing, ill continue to steal shit
>>
>>144802140
That'd mean that people would not spend a dime on a series they wouldn't feel 100% safe about, people would not discover new good series and in return no one would buy merch for those series.
>>
>>144800574
good, anime is cancer
>>
>>144806894
Underrated post. You can literally see the effects of streaming sites like CR on the subbing groups online nowadays. There used to be a large amount of subbers for a variety of shows. Now, it's pretty much just "Horrible Subs" and whatever other various rippers and recoders exist. The subbing communtiy has shrunk and largely relegated to a few niche anime or things not immediately available through streaming.
>>
>>144819097
What's sad is that all these people didn't switch over to manga, games and old still unsubbed stuff
>>
Considering that either way many of the anime i download would not be available in my country anyway. I don't see the damage.
>>
>>144800574
I stream anime illegaly, but i dont hurt the industry in any way. If i would use a legal streaming site, the few dollars i would give them every month would go to the site and out of the money they get, the nips only get a small %. Anime makes most of its money in nipon. They sell overpriced dvds, merchendise and other stuff to nips. Money that comes from around the world is just a little extra. So me paying for anime wont be noticed, nor will it chance anything. If i buy a dvd of bacanno right now, i wont get a season 2 and anime wont get better. Nips didnt like it, nips didnt buy enough of it, so the kaijins have no say in it. Nips are killing anime themselves.

Also, the industry does not lose money if people pirate. It is like those viewers do not exist. It's like reading books in the public library or lending books from family and friends. The writers dot get any money, but im not a criminal for doig that. and If i could not pirate anime, i would not watch it.

The point im trying to make is: Fuck paying for entertainment. I cant wear it, i cant use it and i cant eat it, so i wont pay for it.
>>
>>144805685
>1 cour would cost $60, everyone can pay that.

Yeah if eat rice with rice every meal.
And only watch one cour a month.
>>
>>144819771
>I stream
Fuck off.
>>
>>144806211
They are they barely even entre shops except for buying SAO figure with their grandma.
A bit sad that they're making Akiba casual.
>>
>>144800574
These articles are a load of crap. If someone isn't going to spend money on something in the first place, they aren't going to in the second place.
Piracy and free showings has actually shown to increase revenue since people who view and like the product will end up supporting it buy buying it, even if there is a free source. A prime example of this is Monty Python.

This part is anecdotal: I've pirated many games and movies to see what it was like before hand. If I like them, I end up buying the media. And if the games or movie are shit, I just delete them from my harddrive.
>>
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How about making anime socially acceptable first. I won't pay a cent until it is.
Or at least changing the laws so I can at least watch anime in peace without feeling threatened by this big guy?
Real talk if japan don't take us into account while producing anime they simply do not deserve my money.
>>
I'd buy blu-rays but the Japanese ones are region locked, and buying the European version doesn't really support the original creators that much, does it?
>>
>>144805685
>1 cour would cost $60, everyone can pay that
What sort of world do you live in?
>>
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Put anime on TV in the countries that watch it (just like in Japan, only subbed of course to the local lingo).

If I can watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer in London on BBC then I can bloody well watch K-On in Jacksonville.

Until ^ the status quo antebellum should be restored. CR and No Fun are just assing up the works,
>>
>>144820384
Fuck Off
>>
>>144820600
No
>>
>>144820384
How dumb do you have to be to think you'll go to jail for watching anime?
>>
>>144820972
In my country you can. Even drawing lolis yourself can. Some boorus were banned even. I actually feel threatened.
>>
>>144821140
You know there's a difference between anime and porn right?
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>>144821174
My government think there isn't.
>>
>>144818571
I'd be fine with steam tier DRM.
>>
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It seems like Japs just can't into world markets outside of a few tech businesses.
If another country like Korea had the same Animation and videogame industry then they would try their best to release their products at the same time for their western audience. I see the occasional Korean movie shown in theaters but never a Japanese one despite Japan having a stronger movie industry.
>>
>>144800574

If it's properties that a majority wouldn't care, then piracy is better for it.
>>
>>144804757
Are you fucking serious or baiting ?
Shut the fuck up.
>>
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>>144800574
>streaming
Yes, you are the cancer. Get out, normie!
>>
>>144820151
>A prime example of this is Monty Python
What happened with Monty Python?
>>
If I could not get anime for free, I would not be watching it. However, because of the anime I watch, I sometimes import goods that are licensed by the IP.

My pirated consumption is a net gain for the industry.
>>
>>144822400
Not the poster you're replying to, but IIRC Monty Python put all their content up on youtube for free and saw something like an 8000% increase in DVD sales.
>>
>>144800574
The only reason I got into anime is because of how easy it is to pirate. If anime wasn't free, I wouldn't waste my time with it. I'd play more vidya.
>>
dont they already got shitload of money from action figures/pillows/merchandises though? not to mention, dont tv stations have to pay the studio to air the animes
>>
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>>144822636
>>
>>144819906
I've always gotten my animes from irc DDL and now baka bt, but just for archival and quality purposes. Why exactly does /a/ hate streaming?
I can see why it'd be convenient if you're trying a show you're not sure about. You can always stream from a torrent but it's a little more work to obtain and you can't immediately skip through it.
>>
>>144822783
>animes
>streaming

winter can't come soon enough
>>
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>>144822841
>what is joke
Answer me
>>
>>144822956
>what is joke
Usually they're funny.
>>
I don't understand the argument to end anime piracy. Watch this magic:
merch = money
more popular= more merch
piracy = more popular
piracy = more merch
piracy = more money.

Math
>>
>>144800574
You might be exactly that, yes.

Compared to the average japanese anime fan, who at the very least, maintains a TV subscription to watch his favorite shows and record them with his DVR for archiving.

The very least you could do to match that is to maintain a matching subscription to Crunchyroll or whatever Funimation provides. You don't even have to make use of those services, just maintain the subscription to show your support while downloading your animes.

There's much larger implications in pirating bluray/dvd material however, since that's a much larger % of money the production companies and original authors don't receive from you than if you skip out on the subscription fees.
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There will never be a way for foreigners to watch anime outside of straight piracy, CR, illegal streams or waiting for the dub to show up on adult swim.

Pic related is the reason. Things like this are seen as normal in Japan. Whereas any where else in the world that isn't asian or muslim it's child exploitation - which is rife in the Japanese animation industry with a host of other socially unacceptable themes.
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>>144823250
>Things like this are seen as normal in Japan
>>
I decided to pay for CR, but still use torrents because I'd rather use MPC-HC than the web browser player.
>>
>>144800574
Same old shit. Just like people bitching about using emulators, these faggots spread misinformation to guilt trip us.

Pirating has literally zero impact on business's sales/profits whatsoever.

It's the business's fault for not providing a better service to the people.
>>
The answer is no. Without piracy the interest in anime wouldn't exist in the west to begin with. That would mean less people buying BDs and Merch, which are the actual main sources of profit of the industry (even though the west probably has a negligent impact on their bottom line). Most people who watch anime wouldn't actually pay just to view anime. Like with video games, piracy actually generates more sales.
>>
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>>144823189
Triggered you. why is this the new thing this summer? people have been saying 'animes' probably since before animu
>>
So, as usual, we can't tell our heads from our asses when it comes to piracy, huh?
Typical /a/.
>>
>>144800574
I perosonaly SIMPLY LOVE how weebs from random shit sites and actual retards on /a/ think that your latenight anime you watch has any significant impact on the industry
>>
>>144803631
crunchyroll's prices are not low my man
it's one of the most expensive subscription based streaming sites, especially considering how bad their infrastructure is and the small selection of shit they have on their
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>>144800574
>we
>streaming
>She based her estimate on the number of views on some streaming site
>Entire last two lines
>>
>>144800574
i give monthly donations to my favourite anime studios, have 3 accounts subscribed to crunchyroll but still pirate most of my anime because fansubs are just better
>>
>>144805855
Not to mention 25 years ago we weren't facing a worldwide economic crisis.
>>
>>144804757
Hello I'm CEO of Electronic Arts inc. and I just got a call from my good friend , the CEO of Activision-Blizzard that he has found a perfect man for his company. If it was you please contact us immediately because you're hired right now and we will pay double of of they offered.
>>
>>144806591
An "average" AA videogame (say, Killzone) takes about 1-2 years to make. An average AA anime (something like YY, for example, popular but not enormously so) takes 8-10 months and costs enormously less.
>>
>>144800574
>Are we fucking the anime industry?
i don't see the fucking problem i was know forever that that market in US, taiwan, china, EU is just as big if not bigger that "JDM".

Fuck them for releasing everything after 2 years, censored and dubbed.
If they don't even fucking bother, they can go fuck themselves.

also fuck shirogumi-like guilt-tripping they did with etotama
>>
>>144806423
If they want to appeal to the west the first step is to ban lolis.
>>
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>Giving middlemen your money.
>>
>>144823982
What happened with Etotama?

I just remember Rokka anti piracy campaign.
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>>144807689
>Madoka and Love Live in the same sentence
How can one man fuck up so badly?
>it's a tripfag
theeere it is.
>>
>>144823250
>or muslim
Reddit please
>>
>>144824336
isn't literally drawing any human heresy?
>>
>>144805326
China is doing a huge favor to the US on stop being prudes
>>
>>144800574
how many series from this season would you be willing to pay for? If this thing wasn't easy to access i'd lose any interest in it.
If anything i'd argue that spread in popularity because of its easy access brought much more people that buy any anime related merchandise, westerners weren't the target, so there is no point counting them as potential lose. By being widespread it only gains.
>>
Why do threads like this one still exist?
It's been said to death that piracy does not equal lost sales, even proven at this point.
The only correlation that two have are an insignificant minority.
>>
>>144800574
>people that never would have paid for it anyway
>lost cost
That's not how it works.
>>
If they were smart they'd adapt a platform to watch it in real time across the world subbed like netflix, but then have maybe some ads on the side that aren't intrusive to make revenue off of it. Instead of being fucking whiny shit heads.
>>
>>144824915
The eternal shitpost cycle.
Expect a Kyoani vs. (some other studio) within the next two days.
Followed by a stalker thread, then a Miuna Monday, a Yuyusday Tuesday, a Waifu Wednesday, and so on.
>>
>>144824915
Because you will always have some industry hack trying to push for every streaming and torrent site to be shut down. I mean shit the same damn thing is always happening with music, only reason this is more of a nonissue is because of how small a niche anime has.
>>
I'd pay for anime if every show was excellent in animation. No cutting corners to save time cause people are going to be buying this shit. No hiring gooks and chinks to do it. I still wouldnt like paying but shit at least it'll look good.
>>
>>144806626
Ironically it's the Japs that like SAO more than the Westerners.
>>
>>144800574

Piracy arguments in a nutshell. Nobody is worse off in the sense of losing something, but everyone is worse off in the sense that they have gained nothing and are not better off than they were before.

The issue is that foreigners do not have fair access. CR is fucking shit and is not remotely comparable to the low cost of Japanese cable. Naturally, nobody wants to pay for tv when they only get a small portion of foreign tv at a higher cost.
>>
>>144824915
>>144825175
>>144825560

If there was no illegal method, you would still watch anime. Don't play dumb.
>>
>>144825943
Nah, I'd turn to vidya. If I was desperate I'd wait for the ad-ridden delayed free legal stream.
>>
>>144825943
>If there was no illegal method, you would still watch anime.
I wouldn't because we'd be living in some crazy alternative dimension where it rains knives.
>>
>>144800574
It's not like I would ever buy their over priced shit anyway.
>>
>>144824602
No. Mohammed was depicted in drawings centuries ago, the no d'un allowed policy is recent.
Its no idolatry.
Which should make waifus illegal though.
>>
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>>144800574
Is it my fault Japs can into modern stuff. Anime is cheap as fuck to make, if the Japs got their shit together and made a high quality and affordable streaming service then it would get better. HBO and Netflix have extremely reasonable subscription fees and they create high quality shows and movies. Shows of which single episodes costs more than an entire season of "high quality" anime.
>>
>>144828240
No, waifus are fine. Figures aren't.
>>
>>144828266
It's because most anime is utter garbage that only makes money when a few enthusiasts put down ridiculous amounts of cash to update their ridiculous collection. It isn't the kind of stuff normal people would pay for when they want to just sit down and watch something on their free time.
>>
>>144828240
>lying

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam
>The most absolute proscription is of images of God in Islam, followed by depictions of Muhammad, and then Islamic prophets and the relatives of Muhammad, but the depiction of all humans and non-human animals is discouraged in the hadith and by the long tradition of Islamic authorities, especially Sunni ones. This has led to Islamic art being dominated by Islamic geometric patterns, calligraphy and the barely representational foliage patterns of the arabesque; but figurative art still has a strong tradition, especially on a small scale in private works for the home or palace.

They fuck goats and by vast majority support sharia law, too.
>>
>>144828869
Yes the enthusiasts put insane amount of money on physical stuffs while everyone else is watching for free.
>>
Most Jap studios don't even want dirty Western money. We're not their audience and they are fine with that.

That said, I mean the guy who made 5cms per second had his new movie literally premier in America. I didn't know to make of that, except for the fact that maybe that director isn't all that popular in Japan..and they is a Japanese studio presence in some form at conventions so idk
>>
>>144829801
>Most Jap studios don't even want dirty Western money.
Of course they want western money. They want all the money. African, American, European, Antarctican, Arctican, Alien. What they don't want is the hassle about how to chase after that money, which is why they're letting other companies deal with that problem.
>>
>>144829801
Wrong, they want all the money. They don't want our opinion though.
>>
>>144822339
>normie

Fuck off reddit.
>>
>>144829801
Of course they want our money, they just don't want us telling them what the standards for socially acceptable anime are.
>>
>>144804757
Fuck off jew.
>>
>>144824279
I'm sorry. I should've left Madoka out. That shit should've bombed.
>>
>>144830855
But we are better fans than the Japanese audience..
>>
>>144800574
So the Japanese industry is losing money because Western people are streaming subtitled animes they couldn't watch legally because they do not understand Japanese?
>>
>>144831013
How are we the better fans if we don't actually pay as much as they do?
>>
>>144831212
Not paying is better in certain case, especially considering how shit this industry is.
We should find a way to make the dumb nips stop paying for trash anime too.
>>
>>144831212
Because we appreciate anime more
>>
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>>144800574
Did you know that the reason Seinfeld ended was because people in Italy kept on illegally streaming pirated episodes?
>>
>>144831286
Don't forget mobage. That has to be stopped also. Boatshit and idolshit makes money hand over fist but it's killing doujinshi. Every Comiket is now dominated by boatshit and idolshit.
>>
>>144832119
I'm fine with most idol doujin, but if I see another Kancole or 2hu doujin I'm going to rip my eyes out.
>>
>>144832119
And do we really need these shitty idol anime? I guess I can understand the appeal of forming a group to perform, but holy shit, every time they try to milk it further it just backfires when they try to make a season 2.
>>
>>144813229
Honestly I think Steam Anime would have a chance to catch on and actually generate a lot of money.
>>
>>144832824
Too many people would be turned off by steam anime. People who use steam expect a solid gaming platform. Adding anime streaming would compromise the image of it and overall hurt the userbase
>>