>Memes are not allowed
I want to hug Mikumo and sleep on her fluffy hair.
Solo wing Mirage when?
<<Buddy...I've found a reason to fight>>
Because she's not. She was a very promising character in episode 01 but her potential was never developed. So far she's only prospect, the show teases but never delivers. I'm sure this will change in the future, but right now Mikumo is just a mirage.
Well, when I say Sivil was easily best girl in Macross 7, do I have to justify it with screen time? Because she didn't have that much. But, that doesn't alter my perception of her.
That's the reason I think KumoKumo is best girl. Because from what I've seen, she's easily the hottest and most intriguing girl on the show.
>Memes are not allowed
>put "Macross """"bogue""" """ in the title.
Look at how hot this Jenius chick is. She is the reason why i watched Macross 7.
>mfw she started singing
>mfw Gepelnitch started singing too
Basara leaving to travel the galaxy with Sybil doesn't sound out of character.
not much else to do than wait or post new fanart I suppose.
Waifu wars never end. You can literally have Freyja and Hayate (just an example don't get your panties in a twist) get married at the end and Miragefags would still be "Hayate made the wrong choice. He doesn't truly love her!"
I'm anxiously waiting for Keith one since it might spill some more details about why did Gramia have a change of heart and go to war. Also, more shota Knights, cute toddler Heinz and hansome Herman is always welcome.
His interest in seeing the galaxy came about in response to Sivil showing it to him. It doesn't mean that he's in love with her, since obviously Basara's only true love is music, but it is why Fire Bomber breaks up not long after Geppelnitch is defeated and why he becomes a wanderer and never returns to City 7.
>Oh the lights went out
>that's happened a lot lately
>where's the light switch, damnit its too dark to see
>Oh, well there's something better than the light switch right here
>Bogue, come over here
>What is it?
>The pugnant wind of a traitor
>Ah, I can see the light switch
>Ooh, it's so bright!
I was re-watching Frontier to see episode focus on girl and romantic focus. I can say this:
Both of them, edge on Sheryl who is the First girl.
Ranka on both.
Both, edge on Sheryl.
Ranka, but not romantically.
Sheryl focus, romantically and as character.
Ranka focus, but Sheryl/Alto focus.
Both, Sheryl edge
Both, more emphasis on Sheryl.
Both general focus, Alto/Sheryl romantically
More focus on Sheryl in general, Sheryl/Alto gets an edge.
Focus on Ranka, but breaks down Alto/Ranka
Ranka, but there's no Alto/Ranka
Both girls. Muh wings. You know who wins.
The focus was spread thin, but the Alto/Sheryl bond came out as more developed. Most Ranka scenes were trying to get his attention and failing or be jealous of his relationship with Sheryl. Also Sheryl has early lead, falls a little in the middle, and regains it back quite fast.
I agree. I usually like "bickering" relationships but I feel nothing for Hayate and Mirage. Their relationship is bland as fuck. While his relationship with Freyja is fucking magical.
Well technically Hayate and Freyja also bicker and a lot. But their bickering is playful and fun (the kind you see in couples) while Hayate/Mirage bickering is her not putting up with his attitude and vice versa.
Sheryl and Alto bickered a fair bit. I think the last time Hayate and Mirage really bickered was in episode 5? They're pretty much mellowed out now. With him and Freyja they don't really bicker as much as do playful teasing, and that was alive and well as late as episode 13-14. Hit latest attempt in 16 produced a quite different outcome at that.
I was reading a magazine and the contents had me like "damn, jesus fuck". Mirage would've probably beniffited from reading it.
Signs your crush is in love with someone else
1. The friendzone
One of the signs he is in love with someone else is that he will treat you as just a friend. You try to flirt with your crush when you get some alone time with him and he continues to treat you like a friend. If he’s in love with another girl, you could be dancing in a racy negligee and he wouldn’t even notice it.
2. The Eyes Tell All
Check out his eyes when his love interest enters the room. When he makes #eye contact with her, the air appears to light on fire.
If he’s in love, he looks at her very differently than he looks at anyone else. One of the signs your crush is in love with another girl is that his #eyes sparkle and light up whenever he is near her.
3. He’s so Happy
Another one of the signs he has fallen in love with another girl is that he radiates happiness whenever she is around him. He’s elated because she is in his presence. You will notice him frequently flirting, blushing, laughing and smiling at her.
4. Is It Hot in Here?
One of the most common signs that your crush is in love with another girl is the hot sexual #attraction that they share.
Anyone within a 100 foot radius can tell that there is something special between them by the way they interact. If he’s in love, he may barely notice the sexual desirability of other girls. To him, she is the only girl in the room.
5. Always Together
Another one of the #signs he has fallen in love with another girl is that he’s spending the majority of his time with her.
Yeah, I included number four tho because of the "special attraction" not so much as the "hot sexy attraction".
>Anyone within a 100 foot radius can tell that there is something special between them by the way they interact. If he’s in love, he may barely notice the sexual desirability of other girls. To him, she is the only girl in the room.
Yeah, I mean when you think about it, it's very obvious. Plus Mirage has shown to be very observative.
The whole triangle really takes me back to my teenage years.
I was thinking, as for what we've seen so far, do you think Mirage should persevere with her crush on Hayate or do you think she should back off? Here's the thing, I'm not even asking with the triangle is mind anymore. Now I'm asking with Mirage's "character likeability" as interest.
Look at it this way. So far Mirage's character hasn't exactly been received in the best way. Lack of character development, low self-steen, angsty personality, etc, etc. I can't help but think that if she were to pursue the triangle she'd be setting herself up for disaster.
Nobody likes a "homewrecker" (i use it very loosely here) who tries to get in between the relationship/blossoming relationship/love of two people. Her character is already suffering from lack of likeability within the fanbase, to have her push her romantic intentions forward would be like setting Mirage on fire or throwing her to the sharks. Almost like "here you go, hate her!"
I may not be a Mirage fan but I certainly don't want to see her hated (she's already disliked and attacked enough as is). At this point if I were Kawamori and truly cared for my characters, I'd have her back off and instead work on her personal development.
What are your guys' thoughts?
The thing that made Alto/Sheryl interesting to watch was the fact that both of them were a variation of the tsundere archetype; and their romance was both coming out of their own shells to acknowledge each other as they grew over the course of the series.
I think there might be a few episodes of hmmm? coming for a while now, because I expect Hayate and Freyja to enter a bit of crisis with regards to resonance. I don't think this will seriously question the triangle end (although maybe to some)
It seems obvious to me that her big theme will be to overcome her difficulties with flying. Her changing path to something else would be to anticlimatic to her arch, so its likely rather to be her coming to peace with herself and thus getting rid of some mental barriers. But romance wise they've said this show would avoid getting muddy, so I don't think it'll go to deep into that.
Honest answer: Mirage has no chance in this triangle.
People wouldn't hate her, they would feel sorry for her like they see that she is more of a secondary character than a main one.
I always took it more as Hayate falling in love without even realizing it. Freyja became special to him since the day he met her but he never really inspected his feelings on a deeper level because he's dense AF. Also he never regarded her as something akin to "sexual attraction" like most couples are depicted in their starting point. Like you know how it's mostly "Wow, they're cute/really attractive!" and then comes the actual feelings.
HayaFre was the opposite. First it was "feelings and understanding" and then the "attraction of the opposite sex".
It's a play on the classic "I always knew I cared about you and that you were important to me but Holy Shit,you're actually really cute and I think I might be in love? Now I can't keep my eyes off of you" that's triggered by a small event.
No, the hate for Mirage comes from people who wanted Milia 2.0 and is unhappy she isn't Milia 2.0 (yet) They complain she seems to have only been added to be part of the triangle while not pulling her weight.
This pretty much. They're relationship pretty much grew out very naturally from their interactions together. They had a pretty heavy natural affinity right from the getgo, but this was never really physical attraction until very recently.
I understand that Freyjafags are obnoxious at this point, but miragefags are fooling themselves. As a Reina and Mikumo fag, and not caring about the triangle I can see the issues.
Everyone complaining about her lack of development? They clearly only think being a badass pilot would count as development for her, and when she hasn't delivered on this front yet, they hate how this aspect was 'betrayed'
Ugh. And here come the Miragefags again, that instead of actually contributing a good argument for their girl winning, they just shitpost and act like 12 year olds.
It was fun while the amicable discussion lasted. Let's move on to something else now. I have no intention of further feeding immature shitposters.
So, Mikumo. Do you guys think she's a songstress or that she's actually some weird protoculture/hybrid thing?
At first I thought she was something akin to what Heinz is but now I'm more inclined to her being a hybrid of some sort. Also this might be a stupid observation but her hair shape looks like the ruins that were uncovered in episode 13 after they were blown up (with all the edges that kind of look like angels)
I see. Now that you said that, it makes more sense.
Especially this part
> HayaFre was the opposite. First it was "feelings and understanding" and then the "attraction of the opposite sex".
It's obvious they had this special bond, and Freyja start crushing on him around episode 9 (if I remember correct) but with Hayate I always took it as just 'that person I'm the closest to and I have very fun with' like yes, I can label them as friends but after what Hayate said in episode 16 'not really a friend, or comrade or teammate but someone that makes situations really crazy and is fun to be around to' made me think he might have not realised how he truly feels about her, romantic or not.
Mirage's question didn't make him question it further till way later on in the episode as we saw and he didn't seem like he is rejecting this feeling but rather embracing it although there is some hesitation when he tried to reach to her but held back. I read of it as he might be afraid of not reaching her always, like she can go out of his grasp.
Nevermind, I misread it and saw Misa instead of Milia (two times).
Still those expectation are unreasonable. Milia's character was more about enemy with completely different culture and morale betraying her duty because of love. Her being badass pilot was a secondary trait.
If I had to bet, then some protoculture thing that for some reason doesn't remember shit of her life before and for another reason she awoke recently. I'm sure we will get our answers in the upcoming episodes as she seems to be the focus of the 2nd part now.
And yeah, anons before noticed the hair thing=ruins. I didn't save the pic but I remember someone made a collage out of it.
Mikumo being a type of human protoculture would be so fucking cool. Have the next 2-3 episode will most likely be focused on her and I am beyond excited.
Correct me if I'm mistaken but it was
17. Scattering on Stage
18. Sense Emergence
19. Eternal Song
Have we gotten anymore episode titles beyond that?
Modified protoculture. The intended operator for the Sigr Valens. Probably was found in cryosleep by Lady M. Maybe a godmother to the windermerean race. Doesn't remember much because memory loss, reminiscent of Mina Forte. Will be interesting to see what happens when Walkure activates the ruins next episode and if she interfaces with it somehow. Guessing it'll take her out of comission temporarily like in episode 10
You are correct for the episode titles. And from what an anon said in the previous thread, then episode 17 "Scattering on Stage" will be about her but BTFO by Heinz from a magazine episode summary the anon read.
Not yet. We should get them next week when the new magazine issues will be out.
What's even more interesting is the chemistry of her hair. So far we only have three different concrete clues.
1) During the anime sequence, her hair crystalizes/solidifies and sparkles and have some sort of biowaves flowing reflecting.
2) On that official art drawn of Mikumo and her hair, we see various life forms growing from her hair. From plants to a fishes fin. Along with various triangles breaking.
3) On the Blu-ray cover Mikumo's hair is obviously relfecting bubbles, as indicated by the bubbles on that art box. This correlates with her underwater themes.
Mikumo has a punch of correlating themes. It's as if she's fucking related to everything.
From everything we know, the protoculture were all very human looking. That's why all their child races are very human looking. As for episode titles, I don't think so. It'd be normal for episodes to be found in some magazine by now.
I like your theory/speculation. If she was a modified protoculture it would definitely explain a lot of things about her. Her memory loss, her distant memories of the ruins, her strong fold ways, etc. Also the whole resonating with the ruins in episode 10 that triggered a type of memory resonance between her, Freyja and Heinz.
If Mikumo does turn out to be an ancestor/modified protoculture I have to wonder if she'll deem the Windies an unfit race to keep on living and therefore bringing about their end. I hope that doesn't happen. Perhaps living as a normal human and interacting with Freyja could be a positive influence on her if she does turn out to be the final boss.
>if she'll deem the Windies an unfit race to keep on living and therefore bringing about their end.
Considering how much of a boner she has for Freyja and Heinz, she'll just give them the galaxy.
>Mikumo has a punch of correlating themes. It's as if she's fucking related to everything.
That's the interesting part. Mikumo so far has shown to related with everything. Her motifs and themes range from water, to space, and now wind.
>Also the whole resonating with the ruins in episode 10 that triggered a type of memory resonance between her, Freyja and Heinz.
The weird part about Mikumo's memory from that though, is that it's space related. What Kawamori has in stored for us in regards to Mikumo will be crazy. I'm positive everything we have guessed so far is too obvious, for some reason I think we are missing a detail so small. Kinda like the apples, but I can't think of anything. Each new info we get, throws off another. Nothing really adds up
>Main vocal exchange!? Kumokumo in a piiinch!
>As windermeres song of the wind is growing stronger, at the same time there seems to be a change to Mikumo. The power of song is growing weaker!? [Maybe, the grammar throws me off in that sentence]
>At this rate her role might reverse with Freyja in Walkure. What is happening to Mikumo? Floating naked in the water, that mystery will also become clear....!?
We already know Freyja and Kaname's reason for singing. Freyja want's to sing for peace, and Kaname believes that someone out there adores her songs.
Any theories or idea on why Mikumo sings? She gave Freyja a hard time about this. What could her reason possible be?
I don't see her suddenly becoming sort of doomsday dealer because of some loyalty to her own dead race. The protoculture for their part made the Windermereans like they are. Strong, fold wave potent, immune to Var, short life spans. I've been saying this many times, but this just screams to me that they designed them as a weapon. We already know that this is something they would consider doing because that's what the Zentraedi were. Except they never managed to finish them perhaps, because the protoculture themselves died out. At any rate, it just fits that they were a weapon that the Protoculture intended to use in the war that destroyed them. The whole connection with Var is especially interesting because its a mind control weapon, and the war that destroyed them was between loyalist and mind controlled zentraedi. It just fits.
As for Mikumo herself, I feel Kawamori explored a similiar idea in Macross 30. While Mina forte isn't outright stated to be a protoculture (preserved to the present while inside cryosleep in ruins), but rather a 'ancient ouroborean', the novelization of the same game does actually call her protoculture survivor. Mina was essentially like a part of the ruins systems, a machine part as she puts it. Mikumo might have been something similiar. Though she gives sort of priestess vibes in her dream sequence from 14, it could still be that she's just a neccessary weapons component for the Sigr Valens (which does require a wind singer to activate its most potent systems)
Can someone give this a proper translation. A few interesting points. The first is that they say the roles "might" change. So it's not definite, and just hype by magazine? The second is that Mikumo mystery will finally become clear, and they specially mention floating on water. Interesting. So next episode is Mikumo's big reveal and final episode according to this magazine -_-
>What Mikumo sings for
I don't think she herself knows yet. Wasn't she was musing about not knowing the reason during her very first nude scene on the mountain?
Maybe that was why she was so hard on Freyja - Freyja had at least SOME clue all along but just couldn't make the connection, whereas Mikumo has nothing at all and she knows it.
Roid seems to be very interested in Mikumo and Freyja, moreso on Mikumo. This leads me to believe that while on his investigations on the origins of the Protoculture he came unto some information about Mikumo (which was shrouded in mystery, perhaps only stated as a being living between time and space, or of an urban legend of sorts). He probably connected the dots after seeing how strongly the ruins in episode 10 reacted to her.
I'm sure he'll try to get his hands on Mikumo or try to turn her over to the windies side. As for Mikumo actually accepting, I think it's a possibility that she would choose to go on her own violition to find out more about her past and all the memories she has.
The thing is we all know Kawamori has had the concept of Mikumo since DYRL. However he waited all these years to reveal her. The whole "Zero OVA's" seems like a set up for the whole protoculture theme.
Mikumo might not go doomsday by her own will, I have a feeling a Sara Nome type thing might happen with her. Something or someone is going to control/manipulate her and accelerate the destruction of the universe.
>Main vocal exchange!? Kumokumo in a piiinch!
>At the same time s the song of the wind of Windermere is growing in power, Mikumo appears to be undergoing a change. Her power of song is no longer rising!? At this rate her role in Walkure might swithc with Freyja? What is happening to Mikumo? The mystery of her submersed naked in water will also become clear....!?
Roid knows SOMETHING.
I'm betting that, if Chaos's plan goes smoothly this ep, it'll be due to Roid letting them get away with it in order to observe just how Mikumo manages to affect the ruins. Of course, he'll have the knights on standby to interrupt things when they start making any headway, and they might even make a grab for Mikumo should she prove useful.
Or maybe Roid's poised to try to tempt Mikumo away from Chaos's side should interacting with the ruins awaken more of her memories. That way he gets to have his cake and eat it too - the Starwind cluster will be firmly establised, without having to risk Heinz (if he gets Mikumo to take Heinz's place powering the Sigr Valens).
>wonder if she'll deem the Windies an unfit race to keep on living and therefore bringing about their end
Genociding an entire species because their military leaders are being dicks would be the exact opposite of what Macross typically goes for.
What's interesting with the ruins resonating in ep 10 is that we got a Heinz <-> Freyja connection. Heinz got Freyja's memories of something burning, and if the hole both girls saw was the dimensional crater, then Freyja got his memories of looking into it.
However, at the very best we only got a Heinz --> Mikumo connection. (Again, only if what both girls saw was the crater). Mikumo didn't give Heinz any memories at all, even though she was caught up in the resonance alongside Freyja. What could that mean?
>Her power of song is no longer rising!? At this rate her role in Walkure might swithc with Freyja?
The real question is how will this after Mikumo? Singing is her life, it's the only thing she knows how to do and is good at. She takes great pride, and confidence in her role as Walkure, and her extreme passion for singing is evident.
I wonder how drastic her personality will change, because this will certainly have an impact on her. I'm sure a sad song is coming up.
I always took that scene to shows 3 things from their pasts. Freyja's town burning. Heinz seeing the hole. And then an image of what looks like the galaxy from Mikumo. She could be very old and have lots of memories locked away within her. In a sense it didn't really give us any hint about her at all yet
It seems so.
Maybe Mikumo thinks that Freyja can help her to find the reason for her existence.
It means Keith doesn't really like to fight or wars and prefers to be a tree hugger faggot, but the NUNshit changed him.
That means the best thing for Keith wasn't training as Knight but fresh earth things like apple juice.
I think it'll be more like Mikumo will grow weak after her encounter with the ruins in tomorrow's episode. However during this encounter, she'll get even more visions of her past. Because of this she'll temporarily abandon Walkure and head to the ruins for some answers thus leaving her share of responsibility to befall on Freyja's shoulders. Whether Freyja will live up to the responsibility is something we'll have to wait and see.
As for Mikumo leaving it seems very possible. While she does take her role seriously, recently we've been shown that she's growing restless to learn about her past so her up and leaving seems very viable.
Freyja wasn't the bastard son of the King, who's whole future was changed because of the war. Freyja while her parents dying was terrible enough in its own, she was able to leave the planet and pursue her dream at signing THANKS to the war?
That scene is open to interpretation though, until clarified. I think they all saw a glimpse of each other memories. The girls commented on Heinz (the hole), while Hienz spoke about Freyja's because he was shocked that it happened on Winderemere. Nobody commented on Mikumo's since it was a galactic background, and they still want to keep her mysterious.
I'm actually quite positive they all shared the same set of visions since Mikumo commented in the next episode that the wind singer was able to analyze every aspect of her mind, which she did not like.
Hienz, Mikumo, and Freyja shared a special connection. The full details of that connection is not analyzed yet though, as neither of them knew what the cause was and blamed the other party for what happened. Mikumo blamed the wind singer, and hienz/roid/the old king thought it was Walkure.
My guess is that it was the ruins themselves. They have a life of their own.
Freyja was 7, and wasn't involved in battle while Keith was 12 and was forced to stain his hands fighting. The psychological impact is different.
Besides Freyja is Jesus-tier who loves everything, Keith is a good but normal kid who was affected by this shit.
Only if she got the musc player 'thanks' to the war. Then again 'thanks' to the war, she had to learn to rely on music to blow away her worries. It shaped the girl that stowed away in an apple container.
They could have all been besties. Fuck NUNS.
>She could be very old and have lots of memories locked away within her. In a sense it didn't really give us any hint about her at all yet
Honestly Mikumo might have been a reincarnated life form with connections to the protoculture. I'm positive the whole jelly-fish myth on Ragna, has a connection with Mikumo. After all, her ability to breath underwater amongst the jellyfish appeared that very episode. In fact, Mikumo might have been a jelly-fish all her life, and while observing the starry skies, yearned to be human because she has unfinished business to do. The reincarnation cycle, must have left her without a memory.
Her hair resembles a plane, the birdhuman, the ruines, every symbol on windermere, and jellyfishes too.
Freyja was a civilian who didn't see the battle. Keith was in the heart of the conflict, forced to fight and he was older to know what was coming on. The impact was definitely different on him.
This >>144604192 used to be Keith. The parallel is pretty obvious. He was also lacking a sense of 'family' as Hayate did and he didn't know what purpose he had in flying and such until he realized he had to protect Heinz. Being a soldier at 12 years old in a really fucked up war can change a kid.
OK listen. I'm a Freyjafag and all but you cannot compare the trauma that Keith had vs what she's been through. Keith was 12 years old when he was sent to war. And now to just fly around. He killed people. At the age of 12. Can you imagine the implications that had on him?
Yes Freyja also suffered as well losing her parents and being an orphan and all that jazz. But it's not the same burden that Keith shared. Also Freyja is now in the middle of the war, but she's older now and she's not actively killing anyone like Keith was forced to do.
However their different circumstances are what make both Keith and Freyja strong. No one is denying that.
You're like you're onto something, but then you read way too much literally into it when you try to make her literally into a jelly fish.
Mikumo is not a jellyfish. At all. She might be a genetic progenitor to all the races of Brisingr cluster. And like Mayans reffered to the AFOS as the Bird human, maybe ancient ragnans saw Mikumo with her special hair, and concluded that she was a jellyfish god.
>As for Mikumo leaving it seems very possible. While she does take her role seriously, recently we've been shown that she's growing restless to learn about her past so her up and leaving seems very viable.
Really? I just can't see Mikumo abandoning Walkure at all. There hasn't even been any scenes where she is eager to learn more. Just her questioning herself as to why she knows this stuff.
Perhaps Bogue woul be a better comparison since they are the same age. But even then he grew up among people who fought against NUNS and saw how the school became decimated. Different backgrounds, different feelings and reactions.
I don't even think young Freyja knew what war meant, that people are angrily fighting each other and it leads to destruction and death, perhaps she more experienced it like "a disaster" like an earthquake. It was something that happened to them. Sadness was real, directed anger not so much.
This. Freyjafag here too. Freyja's case is more similar to Bogue, than Keith's. Keith is probably being set up to have UNDERSTANDING with Hayate because they are alike, deep down, one is just traumatized.
All these windshitters.
MUH WAR, MUH NUNSHIT.
I just see stupid idiots who knows about war only from their gundam cartoons. Even without any therapy 7 years is more than enough to heal any wounds. People return from the war and try to return to normal life. It's only Windermerian stupid revanchism propaganda that constantly adds fuel to their hatred.
The Mikumo leaving Walkure plot is there because people see the Mikumo/Freyja bond as similar to Messer/Hayate - mentor character urges younger, less driven character to get good and then steps aside once they're ready to take over the mantel.
Eh, Keith really, truly, respected Messer - to the point of threating to shank Bogue if he kept on insulting him. I think when that fact comes out there might be a chance for some UNDERSTANDING between them.
>Implying Mikumo dies next ep
>Implying that they'll get rid of JUNNAs vocals before they manage to produce another album worth of songs
Really if she does die, it'll be at the finale, after they've pumped out all the songs for this cour.
> maybe ancient ragnans saw Mikumo with her special hair, and concluded that she was a jellyfish god.
When they mentioned a "sea god" many episodes ago, I actually posted a theory back then that she might've been what the people who started the legend saw.
Except I do.
There is war just 200 km away from my house. I can get to battlefront in 3 hours by taking a bus. I have friends who were fighting there. And I have few friends who either directly fought there or could share 2nd hand stories about it.
And I still remember my grandpa's stories about WWII.
And unlike you, imbecile, I know history and shitton of examples.
Except Keith clearly doesn't have PTSD (at least not in any heavy form). And other Knights do not have it too. And few people with PTSD are just not enough to start a new war.
UNDERSTANDING requires apologizing (from both sides) and Keiths seems to be too prideful and stubborn for that.
He will probably die in self-sacrifice to save Heinz or something like that.
Reirei, you are on of the precious gem Kawamori blessed us with
Like any other character in Delta that isn't fucking Freyja. Only Hatayte can challenge her in development, and she beats him by a landslide. All Delta's characters, expcet for Freyja are flat and only have one or two tropes surrounding them, which the writers mistake for character development
Cutest and moest walkure goes to Reina. Happy Birthday, enjoy Makina's makimaki's
The center of Delta's triangle, and the one that shall shatter it.
Most of them made it, that means that no one was traumatized! Great logic there. And just because they made it doesn't mean they were fine, I bet you also think that depression isn't real if they don't try to kill themselves. Also 16 is not 12.
Common reactions to trauma: detachment from other people and emotions, cannot tolerate closeness or emotional expression even within his family, irritability, anger, guilt, self-blame, overreacting to minor irritations, loss of interest in friends and hobbies, pessimistic outlook on life, being cynical and distrusting of others...
Sounds like Keith.
Sure hope they look better painted.
I thought Frontier became irrelevant by this point.
You're just beyond retarded. You still can't understand the difference between hatred caused by traumatic past and the one based on ideology.
>Also 16 is not 12.
By the way Cassim was 16 too. Herman was 26. Yet they are in this war fighting against NUNS too. And also there were millions kids even younger than 12 during WWII. Lots of them were seriously traumatized. But somehow they didn't start another war or revenge genocide. Gee, I wonder why?
>And also there were millions kids even younger than 12 during WWII. Lots of them were seriously traumatized. But somehow they didn't start another war or revenge genocide. Gee, I wonder why?
Mostly due to nukes, and a world order maintained by two superpowers. It's really funny that you bring up WW2, a war manufactured almost exclusively by people who were butthurt about WW1.
>Sounds like Keith.
And like Gramia, Roid, Heinz, Bogue, Herman, Cassim, chinese twins and probably few thousands of Windermerians who fight in this war.
Are your brains so damaged by chinese cartoons that you can't understand the difference between them and Freyja?
Honestly, while the plot of Delta is decent. All the characters suffer from lack of actual character development. Can't judge fully yet because the series hasn't ended, but after 16 episode all of them are still 2 dimensional.
A lot of characters are super underdeveloped when compared to some, but even the most developed isn't really developed.
>WW2, a war manufactured almost exclusively by people who were butthurt about WW1.
Check who was in Central Powers. And check who was in Axis Powers. Surprise, surprise, some countries managed to calm their butthurt after the loss in WW1. Also there were more than 20 years between the wars. Shitton of Axis soldiers couldn't even walk during WW1 yet they hated everyone around them. So don't you think the reason of war (both WWII and Windermerian) is not about child trauma, but fucking ideology?
People always have the choice if they want to become South Korea or North Korea. Windermerians couldn't make the right decision. And this is exactly what Kawamori tries to show us with comparing Freyja and Knight's causes and reasoning. This is one of main points of fucking Delta. You must be completely brain dead to not understand it.
Why is she so hot in that pic? Is she even obtainable? Or too out of everyone's league by miles? Is that why she's not in the triangle of triangles? Hayate wouldn't have a show of capturing her attention.
>NUNS used a dimensional eater on their planet
>could use another one at any moment
Windermere is case of genuine desire of self defense, retard. They felt genuinely threatened by NUNS. Declaring war on the whole galaxy is another story, but going against the NUNS in the cluster? Self-defense.
>They clearly only think being a badass pilot would count as development for her
Why else Mirage can develop for then? she pretty much not gonna win the triangle, and if she still can't be a badass pilot, then she's just useless and piontless.
She matures, but her actions are more consistent throughout the story than Hayate or Mirage. For better or worse those two are completely different from what they were in episode 1.
When Cuba had Russian missiles and became a Soviet headquarters, USA tried to fuck it up too.
It's the exact same shit. It's self defense to secure one's territory by kicking out the enemy's bases installed there. Now the galaxy conquest plan is another thing.
Except windermerians explicitly stated reasons for their war. It's not about self defense or feeling threatened.
It's so ridiculous that I think you don't believe in shit you wrote. It's probably blatant shitposting for the sake of shitposting. Kill yourself.
>Now the galaxy conquest plan is another thing.
The galaxy conquest plan WAS the plan. I mean, I don't know if Gramia was going for it but right now, it is looking like Roid was planning for this the entire time.
Gramia was only interested in the cluster. Most of the windies don't give a fuck about what lies outside their planet. That's actually a point about their culture in their manga. Freyja and Roid are exceptions, for better or worse.
>All the characters suffer from lack of actual character development.
How is that different from any other Macross series?
I think Delta's doing better than, like, 7. People at least knew who the characters on the Delta and Walkure squad are. Who even remembers that there were more than two people in Fire Bomber
All the characters are the same. Don't let anybody fool you. They are just faces masked with tropes. Hopefully by the end of the series Freyja, Hayate, and Mikumo can have a lasting impact on the audience. As much as Sherylfags are annoying, Sheryl stands out of macross because she was fleshed to the maximum. We saw every possible side of her, she was introduced glamorous, had a tough fall, and was built again. Not every character needs to follow that exact pattern, but she left an impact.
I like Delta so far, and when the series is over I want to tell people to watch Delta because their are character in thier that are amazing, and the pot is awesome. Along with telling anti-delta to fuck off, because they missed out on awesome characters and plot .
I don't want to say, "oh watch Delta, nice plot and has a cute genki girl who does abc, or oh watch delta, has a beautiful shinpi girl who sings"
I want the main characters Hayate, Freyja and Mikumo, along with the secondary characters to be characters that are known, without even watching the series.
Hitler actually had charisma, Roid hides behind a nine years old, using his coronation to push his plan because he knows the nobles and merchants were against it. They couldn't tell the recently crowned King they don't like the idea.
(I'm pretty sure Freyja is leaving a generally good impact)
I don't know why people say Hayate is underdeveloped. It's incredibly smooth and understated but it is there. He's not the same character he was in episode 1
If Keith hadn't been a kuudere retard who refuses to voice his opinion instead of acting like a blind knight to the throne, none of this would have happened. Heinz wouldn't have given a shit about Roid's suggestion or his "father's will."
Let's play a game to celebrate ReiRei's birthday.
Describe Reina's character without saying what she looks like, what kind of costume she wears, what does she like or what her role in the show is.
Describe her to your friends like they ain't never seen Macross.
The more descriptive you can get, the stronger her character.
They are two dimensional. Let's but it this way. Have you ever watched an anime and you loved it, and it's character at the moment and time. You liked, and you reped your favorite character etc. However after the anime ends, and the hype dies off you slowly forget about that character. Compare that to an anime that might have ended, yet their was a character or characters filled with so much depth, they transcended the two dimensional anime world and left a lasting impression on you. None of the characters in Delta have achieved that. We still have a lot of episodes, so it's still possible but none of them there yet.
The only person who might achieve this is Freyja, and the reason for that is they focus on her a lot and neglect the massively huge cast.
It's interesting because Kawamori stated he didn't want a repeat of Frontier with just two idols. But when you think about it, Walkure are just two idols.
He is obviously against it. He challenged it in a courteous way when he never objected his father's plan in the past. He lowered his head and kept his opinion. I think someone needs to punch him to realize he has to stop acting like a distant aloof knight and begin to be a big brother.
>But when you think about it, Walkure are just two idols.
No way, Kaname is memorable and popular underdog who got enough screentime and an actual storyarc on her own. I agree Makina and Reina are filler, though.
Yeah this is how I feel. I like the show but as it stands now, I can't defend it because I do recognize that the criticism is valid.
I do hope Delta can emerge on its own without being treated as another Macross II by its fans once the final episode airs.
He didn't want a repeat of Frontier with the triangle focusing on two idols (admittedly he also said he didn't initially want a triangle at all) and wanted to do a singing group. However, this is not an actual idol anime so obviously all of them aren't going to be the focus of the story
Hayate went from a wandering douche to an inspiring pilot.
Freyja found her reason to sing.
Messer, the strict-by-the-rule type, found that he should enjoy the present, sacrified his life doing what he loves the most while protecting his waifu.
Kaname got her confidence boosted thanks to Messer, she considers herself Mikumo and Freyja's rival.
Roid went from a protoculturefag pacifist to a protoculturefag space hitler, refusing peace negotiations and declaring war on the whole galaxy. whether this change came from Gramia, berger, anyone or even Roid himself is unknown.
Heinz just wanted his brother to notice him and now he abandoned the idea. He's resolved to lead the war and get it over with.
Keith youlittleshitsaveyourbrother went from a cheerful kid openly caring for his cute little otouto to a serious, vengeful (I will kill all earthlings) and distant young adult, he still cares for Heinz but hides it pretty well.
For a show not character/triangle centered with 25/26 episodes, I'm pretty satisfied with the cast.
I can say a memorable, or at least memorable to me, moment from pretty much every character in Delta. Can't do the same for F or 7.
Yes, even Mirage. Episode 16's ending was very well done
Reina is a 15 year old girl who with great compter and hacking skills. She has a strong passion for singing, and is willing to risk her life for a cause. Reina's personality style switches from kuudere to tsundere quite frequently, to be more specific she has a kuudere like speech, with tsundere tendencies. So I guess that makes her a dere hybrid? Reina cares a lot about her friends, and the place she considers home. She's very non-judgmental, and emphasis being who you are regardless of society's rules.
She's a possibly Zentraedi /u/ bait who is Supah Hackah and paired with Makina. Doesn't talk a lot but when she does it's usually poignant or something funny. She essentially serves a similar role to Veffidas except she has more than 3 lines in the entire shwo
>However, this is not an actual idol anime so obviously all of them aren't going to be the focus of the story
This is actually very questionable. It is an idol anime though because the plot revolves around the idols. Without the idols, a huge chunk of the plot is missing. Yes it is singing, but the idols fall under that. Not only that, the idols themselves are what is being sold. Priority should be taken into characterizing each of these girls and building them up substantially. No matter how you think about it, the idols are the main characters of Delta.
The second opening focuses on the idols over the triangle. Look at the difference of the cast drop from the first one. Hayate and Mirage are out, Walkure are in with Freyja center stage.
>This is actually very questionable. It is an idol anime though because the plot revolves around the idols.
First of all, it's also a mecha anime as well as a romance anime. It's all three.
Second of all, if you want Kawamori's take of an actual real idol anime, AKB0048 is right over there
Does anyone want to try this with another character?
>Hayate went from a wandering douche to an inspiring pilot.
>Freyja found her reason to sing.
Wow, so inspirational she really has transcending the two dimensional status.
>Messer, the strict-by-the-rule type, found that he should enjoy the present, sacrified his life doing what he loves the most while protecting his waifu.
Trope, beyond trope, beyond trope.
>Roid went from a protoculturefag pacifist to a protoculturefag space hitler, refusing peace negotiations and declaring war on the whole galaxy. whether this change came from Gramia, berger, anyone or even Roid himself is unknown.
>Heinz just wanted his brother to notice him and now he abandoned the idea. He's resolved to lead the war and get it over with.
Wow, so much depth. People will remember this forever.
If that's what you call character development and depth, it's not cutting it. Slapping tropes to character that don't build themselves first isn't impressive. You're fond of the trope, not the character. They will never truly shake our hearts with these mediocre characterization.
A handful of character might deliver, and there are a ton of episodes left. However at this point in the series they are faces with plot-points.
Okay so since apparently that's just too tropey for you (note:Trope=!bad) what exactly are you expecting?
I'd like to note that as special as Sheryl was, by your logic, her rise and fall has been very much seen before. Even in Macross itself, SDF did it too.
I'm pretty sure Miragefags(other than that shitposter) will be fine if she find someone else or become badass pilot in the ending.
However i can see some of(i said some of) Freyjafags will laughing her for a month at least.
I thought people liked mecha anime because of it's tropes and cliches
>a month at least.
Please. The Ranka/Sheryl war is still sort of alive. Usually it comes up when some faggot thinks Sheyl didn't win in both versions.
This isn't AKB0048 though, this is Macross Delta. For this series the Mechs, and love triangles are essential as you stated along with the idols. Kawamori seems to be doing a good job at the mech side of things as the mech fans aren't really complaining except for the use of battle roid mode.
Mechs however aren't selling. Idol things are being produced and promoted left and right. Out of the 5 girls you are promoting and milking, only 2.5 are substantial. There literally is no point having them be an idol group. The only reason they stand as an idol group is because that's what Kawamori wanted, however he failed to make you care about most of them.
As somebody said before. Reina and Makina might has well had the same roles, without the singing and just be bridge bunnies. Perhaps have Kaname still be apart of Walkure, along with merging Arad and Chuck.
Delta at the moment is a very grand idea, with very good potential. However it does not contain enough episodes to develop it's thought. It was not thought thoroughly through. Just a bunch of good ideas, crammed into 26 episodes.
Chuck is a cheerful man, he likes to joke and usually he takes things easy but he can be serious if the situation calls for it. He takes great pride in his culture and loves his family more than anything else in the world. He's also a slut and a pervert.
>The only reason they stand as an idol group is because that's what Kawamori wanted,
What's wrong with that?
>however he failed to make you care about most of them.
I like all of them. That's your opinion. Like, I don't even know everybody in Diamond Force's names but I still liked them in 7 for example. I felt bad when they died and left Gamlin alone
If the show was about Freyja, then it would have been a solo idol. Kawamori wanted a group therefore a group of girls are being pushed. 1 of these girls has potential, 2 might be able to catch up, while the other two are lost in the wind.
You can't justify it by saying it's about Freyja. If that was the case it literally should have just been Freyja. At this point they are taking up and wasting potential space
It's about Freyja's journey as she joins an idol group. That doesn't make the entire story about said group. They are a framing device for the story. Likewise, the entire story is not about Delta Flight even though Hayate is the main male character in it.
You can develop a character even he/she only have total 5 minute role, it just seems Delta's writer is not good enough.
Maybe next time Kawamori can team up with Mizushima and make a show called "Girls und Macross".
It's not about what's been seen before, it's what about what's being done. Nothing is wrong with tropes, and tropes are awesome and always welcome. However you can't mistake it for character development. The only character in SDF that isn't two dimensional is Minmay. Along with Sheryl and Ranka for frontier. Characters might achieve this in Delta towards the end, however only Freyja is close, and maybe Hayahay and kumokumo
>The only character in SDF that isn't two dimensional is Minmay. Along with Sheryl and Ranka for frontier.
Okay now I'm getting this feeling you have ridiculous expectations for your anime because that's just a retarded statement right there
It's so easy to call everything trope without any arguments. You can pick like any deep development and reduce it to shitty word trope. Raskolnikov? Bad guy turning good, fucking trope. Quasimodo? Ugly guy finding balls to do something. Trope. Any fictional character ever? There is that one character who very remotely did something similar. TROPE.
But in reality it all comes down to a single fagget who is butthurt that his shitty space elf loses in love triangle.
How exactly do you quantify that "nobody cares about the idols"? I'm assuming you're talking out of universe.
From what I've seen, besides Freyja, Kaname and Reina seem quite popular
This entire argument better not fucking be about "Mirage isn't getting enough screentime" again because that completely changes the flow of this from having some good points to just being butthurt
>What's wrong with that?
Nothing is wrong with that at all. However what's the point of having them if they are just wasting time and space in the series. There is literally no need for them as the only two idols recognized by the mass are Freyja and Mikumo, with Kaname having a decent fan base because of her episode and a half.
>I like all of them.
Like is one thing, but having them being substantial or important to a person is different. I'm sure if Makina and Reina died next episode nobody would really care. Some people might, but not enough to cause a buzz. This is because they aren't solidified in peoples hearts like Freyja or maybe Mikumo
>However you can't mistake it for character development.
The fuck? These are tow completely different concepts. They are not mutually exclusive because they are completely not related to each other. You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop pretending being smart, retard.
Well, Mirage is part of the problem, maybe bigger one, but not the only problem.
Though her problem is not "isn't getting enough screentime", it's her scenes usually meaningless, i rather cut all her scenes that walking with Hayate and speaking something irrelevant, that should gave her total 2-3 minutes for personal development.
I'm a Freyjafag and I don't give a shit about the triangle. It's not the focus of my waifu, so I don't give a shit. I'm sure other guys feel the same.
Frontier pushed the triangle too much.
I'm fine with everybody. I'm really only disatisfied by the twins and maybe Keith
You're not answering the question. How do you quantify this? How can you even know? I see what the trends are on twitter. I know about how people like Reina because her goods keep selling out at Delta events. I've seen all the Kaname fanart that continues to come out even now, so I have some general idea as to the idols being popular. I think what's happening is that you personally do not think they are doing enough and equate that to being unpopular
Freyja, Hayate, Messer, Kaname.
Mikumo is not in the list, but she will get her arc, so I'm not worried about her.
Rest of the characters are meh. Biggest disappointment is Knights. They got so much marketing, but so little screen time.
>There is war just 200 km away from my house. I can get to battlefront in 3 hours by taking a bus.
Good. Do these threads a favor, take the bus and get yourself killed, NUNSfag. You've been shitting up this place for too long.
I'm satisfied with them all with the exception of the knights (minus Keith). For all the marketing and play they get, none of them really seem to matter much at all. Bogue and the twins are more or less the same characters.
Mikumo hasn't gotten much development but it's clear they're building up for it. Reina and Makina were basically designated as satellite characters from the get-go so not getting focus on them doesn't really bother me.
Yeah, if Seikan Hikou happened in a universe where Sheryl didn't exist.
That's not the same, idiot. Seikan Hikou was Ranka's come back and only chance to outshine Sheryl who dominated the screen and monopolized Alto for 11 episodes. This episode was only Hayate realizing he might be in love with Freyja after 16 episodes of obsessing and fagging after her and Freyja dominating the screen time coming together. Similar to episode 22 of Frontier, only with less angsty shit from Freyja's side.
Mirage meanwhile has done jackshit. When she does, it'll be a Seikan Hikou, because Hayate has friendzoned her so hard he doesn't even look flustered when she presses her semi naked body over his. She's in a worst position than Ranka ever was. Mao-tier, but without making any moves.
Fuck I hate that meme of Gamlin an Basara "running off together". What, are you gay?
Sure, Gamlin follows Basara, but I'm pretty sure it's out of desperation to have Basara come back to the band (to make Mylene happy again). Can't you see it?
Over and over, I see this gay-shit agenda passed off as an ending. It shits me, because it's so obvious how that OVA ends. But I never see the right interpretation. Gays in this thread much?
some idiots that you can find commenting on some anime news site or some sort of macross delta related news like the video game still think so.
it stopped being one after ep 4, the moment the war declaration went off, the plot has been picking up at a pretty fast pace. you got some "rest moment" but no actual "rest episodes".
although 2bh, it never was an idol funtimes anime since it has been established right from the first episode that despite their idol-esque method, they're a bunch of PMC. I'm guessing that the way the promotional material was presented is the reason behind all of those idiots, but it's fuckin' 2016, ignorance is a sin.
Xaos isn't a full on PMC, it's essentially telecom giant, that has a PMC side business. For all intents and purposes they're a PMC to us though, since we're following that department in the show
there were some spoilers given for today's episode at the mini live
hayate and freyja will finally...
and bogue will finally...
it looks like the knights will be the major players in the next ep
>Learn the truth about Hayate's father?
We already saw the truth about his father.
He was the pilot that dropped the bomb. Freyja will go full race traitor at that point by still wanting his offspring's D.
We do know but they don't know.
What else could be with the "finally..."?
Never. More like Hayate tossing aside the jewell and no resonance with Hoina for a few episodes.
I just read on twitter that on the latest Gori Radio they were talking about date plans and Minoring said that if she were to go on a date with Bogue anything would be fine (「ボーグと一緒だったら何でもいい～～(デレデレ)」). This Boguefagging is on a level of its own.
>not a single figure for Mirage from wonfes
I'm honestly surprised she didn't get a single one with how many Freyja and even the rest of Walkure got. I expected them to get some obviously, but not even a swimsuit version or anything.