All the fucking life of guts is tragic his mother die when he was a kid and was reped and have to kill his father even been a kid after that all his friends were killed by his best friend and now he is figthing against facking gods
Yes, as long as you make sure to put Touma on the same level as Homu here >>144450241
and throw Okabe Rintarou somewhere
Where does Rika lie on this chart? Shes lived hundreds of years in increasingly shorter loops in which all her friends brutally kill each other or her and each loop ends with her being killed.
Why is Edward there? I don't remember him suffering much in the manga. Never watched either anime.
Harima is a shit. He had fucking top-tier girls after his dick but he was only interested in the shit girl even when she absolutely turned him down, he decided to keep gunning for her anyway. He brought all of his suffering on himself.
Shes far above Okabe in terms of something. People with hinamizawa syndrome do shit like feed you needles, tear your skin off, nail you to a cross and rip your fingernails off, bury you alive, etc.
>being Lancer is suffering
Eh, he doesn't do too bad.
Why is this subaru guy on there. He just died a few times without any consequences. The suffering is all on him being stupid and not using his ability right. If those few meaningless deaths mean suffering, Then Tom Cruise should be on here.
I think it has to do with the writing. Like, people are saying archer suffers more, but Gutts suffering is just written better, and seems more real, which makes it more unbearable. I don't mean demons and shit are more real or anything, but the way it's handled is. Ed has some rough shit, like dead family, brothers soul is kinda flimsy, lost two limbs, but in the end, it gets a pretty happy ending.
Okabe doesnt get beaten to death by his friends at the end of each loop to the point of desensitization and indiscriminate trivialization of human life.
Okabe also never tried to murder his friend with a chair in cold blood in the middle of a classroom because she was talking shit and he was also under the assumption it doesnt matter anyways.
He had his sad moments, but he shouldn't be anywhere near that list. Especially since he got best end accomplish his original goal and getting together with his waifu.
He doesn't even have control over his super special power and little power besides it.
He's suffering on a meta level with the new anime being so awful.
And we're only two episodes in!
there is only one suffering-man
Yes. And since the value of the suffering to the viewer is the only potentially measurable factor, his suffering is thus diminished.
Of course this also means these charts are completely useless to argue over.
That isnt exactly suffering if he's doing it for what he believes in.
I'm just playing with this one
Instead of becoming a jaded mental wreck, he ended up gaining a cute fairy on his shoulder and he gets a little nervous whenever he gets involved with magic gods.
Suffering my ass. There are side characters who got shit all over without muh billions of worlds and they actually had consequences.
Puck is the only good thing about this.
>pic related not top of the list
His pain is far greater than yours.
Are we counting steins;gate zero while putting Okabe in there? I s his suffering really that bad?
Subaru should be higher than edward, in fact Hohenheim should also be higher than edward if he were included.
But you also have to keep in mind that Subaru's story is about him getting his shit together and realizing what a cock he's been, we already know Subaru has the both the superpowered and emotional tools to fix himself. His suffering comes with the expectation of redemption and fixing everything.
>My suffering is greater than yours
Powerlevel wanking is one thing. This is a level of stupidity well above that.
You wonder why people don't like Uchiha Sasuke? Because he'd probably make a thread like this trying to compare suffering as if it's something that has value.
What about this guy from Gundam 00? Sure he got a happy ending, but the shit he had to go through to get there was painful. During the first season, I legit thought the anime director hated him or something.
>Because he'd probably make a thread like this trying to compare suffering as if it's something that has value
Edgy teenagers on 4chan think they know suffering because they are a bunch of losers irl and can't get a gf, therefore suffering is the only think that has value to them (or so they think)
> I cry everytime an anime character dies
The mark of the newfag. People don't have to give a single shit about anime character dying, especially if they don't like them.
Don't worry, you'll get it once you've watched more than 50 shows.
>dad left him and his family
>fucked up himself and his brother
>sees some fucked up shit
>loses the one thing that makes him "special"
>fails to save people (including loli)
That's not even going into 2003
>tries to help people, they die and one gets raped because of him
>gets teleported to Nazi Germany with his dad >away from everybody he loves
>his dad still fucking leaves him
>works to see his friends again
>does, then never does again because he has to save Earth and now only has his brother
Don't get me wrong, he doesn't belong quite so close to Archer but he fucking aches.
>The mark of the newfag.
The mark of the summerfag.
>People don't have to give a single shit about anime character dying
That's right, they don't have to, but they usually do when they're not autistic and are capable of feeling emotions
Archer, Subaru, Okabe , Seita(Grave of the Fireflies)
Sakura Matou, Alibaba, Kiritsugu, Yuki Nagato, Alphonse Elric
Killua ,Jonathan Joestar, Edward Elric, any fate lancer
Tomoya Okazaki, Kacchon
I think we should recognize Slaine's suffering a bit more. Even if he was a massive faggot.
> That's right, they don't have to, but they usually do when they're not autistic and are capable of feeling emotions
No they don't, dipshit, because people who aren't newfags can tell the difference between reality an anime and they have no emotional attachment to characters they don't know or don't like which makes their deaths irrelevant to them. No one feels bad when they find out a character in a series they've never seen dies and they have no reason to.
Only moronic newfags that still find death shocking in fictional works would consider that not feeling bad for a fictional character wrong.
Kek, that image finally got me thinking. It's classic stages of grief, looks like mitsubishi is freshly bargaining as of episode 16
>No one feels bad when they find out a character in a series they've never seen dies and they have no reason to.
I feel sorry for you, you must be legit autistic. You're also pretty obsessed with calling people newfags, a well known newfag technique to give them more credence when they expose their shit opinions
Rose from the beginning arc. She was raped by a soldier or a group of soldiers and had a child as a result. She ended up becoming some sort of martyr. I honestly can't remember much from the 2003 version.
Lelouch and c.c. suffered immortal life and even before they became immortals both of them had suffered a lot
>suffering immortal life
Anon. It's time to let go
>Archer that low
I don't know anon
Being betrayed by your ideals, forced to live forever to protect a world you really hate and hating yourself so much for all the wrong choises you made in your life you want to kill yourself but can't seems like it should be higher then Shinji to me
Can we reformulate these charts? Let the Y axis be "How much this character suffers" and the X axis be "How much the character deserves to suffer"
>Lose your legs because you wanted to SIEG ZEON
>Watch your friends get killed and lose another one of your limbs in combat
>Have your last limb removed to interface with your machine even better, barely win against your rival
Your post scream of newfaggotry, Im merely stating a fact. You still have to give any valid counterpoints to what I said, instead all you can do is cry about "autism".
Just another newfag that feels bad for being called out.
What about Casca in that case? She got stripped and humiliated by demons before being raped by Griffith in front of Guts, to the point that she basically developed a trauma-induced form of dementia and miscarried a demon baby after. Though I suppose she doesn't really give a shit about anything that doesn't directly threaten her own life now, it's still pretty shit.
Valid counterpoints to what? That people shouldn't be allowed to feel bad when invested in a story? End yourself
Archer needs to be moved up, ed needs to be moved down.
Ed and Al fucked up on their own accord and their really only true suffering is dead/shitty parents, death/war from outside sources is their fault.
Archer is relatively tragic+infinitely fucked
Thanks for outing yourself, I was getting tired of arguing with a shitposter anyway
>all the plebs in this thread saying homura, okabe, subaru etc
New /a/ really is full of newfags.
The thing is, it's hard to sympathize with one's suffering when that person made so much mistakes and kinda deserve it.
His loyalty was admirable regardless.
But to end up being a hobo in America despite having literally the best girls of the series after him? It's like saying no to the gates of heaven.
Well Magi is in it's final arc. So I guess the author decided to stop trolling him.
His girlfriend had it worse.
I like this idea.
They both got dealt a pretty shit hand. Saji during the first season, and Louise towards the end of the first season and onto the second. At least they had a nice happy ending and finally got together after al that bullshit. This being a Gundam series, I was sure either one or both of them was going to die.
Well, he does shit, he gets hit. Pretty straightforward. But all of it was because of his poor luck, so he can't be blamed for his suffering. He deserved some suffering, but he didn't deserve that much suffering.
>So I guess the author decided to stop trolling him.
I really would like to believe this but I know better than to let my guard down now.
Alibaba has seen alot.
It bothers me how he's always still happy even though he faced worse fate than many people on that list.
I don't know but I can feel it anon.
I expect the last chapter to be the nail in the coffin for the guy.
I think it's fucking hilarious that people here look down on phone posts
When Japan as a country have their phones as their main website surfing devices since forever.
Homura should be lower, especially if you think rebellion is canon.
Subaru should be higher than okabe and homura ~rika's range because he actually needs to die too. He also deserves it more than Rika.
It's a website based on a Japanese image board. If you can't find anything funny about how different the culture is, you're fucking hopeless.
Yeah. Some are totally illiterate despite their generation.
not sure where I would place him but the poor bastard has had his fair share.
Okay faggot give me some help here
Also feel free to and some nuber or some shit because im lazy
Yes, that's what I meant. The punctuation got fucked.
Both Subaru and Rika need to reset the cycle which means they must deal with the consequences of each bad end until they die/suicide. Okabe and Homura can just say "fuck it" as soon as something goes wrong.
have you forgotten me /a/?
like this nigger
y is suffering
x is how much they fucking deserve it
Im assuming >>144453630 wanted a chart where the left would be suffers that are PURE and dont deserve it, and pull at your heart strings, and right are assholes that you gain joy from watching squirm
> there's a typo so it's shitposting
The equivalent of running away. Next time try backing up your arguments or just stay in MAL.
>thinking the ride is over
oh, you just wait what's coming to alibaba in the next chapters
The problem with this is that the amount of suffering we measure really depends on how it's presented. Looking at the events in their respective franchises objectively, characters like Touma and Rika probably suffered the most. However, their suffering isn't portrayed as well as, for example, Homura and Guts, so it's easy to feel like Homura and Guts suffered more.
Speaking of Rika & cie., where do you think an eternity of total isolation rank?
>Repeatedly beaten and raped by soldiers.
>suicide attempt by trying to drown herself in the only source of water for the country set in a dying planet
>Trying to abort her child from rape by smashing a rock in her stomach
>resign herself to stay in the alternate universe world to raise her child when the world is going to burn as the sun explodes anyway.
>Not using Windows Server 2012 as your desktop
How to spot a pleb.
how many points do we assign suffering and deserving of suffering?
how many points should rape, being an orphan, being forced to kill loved ones, dying, watching friends die, loosing body parts be worth?
how do we decide how much they deserve it?
how many people they betrayed? how irrelevant they are? how much the author hates them? how many innocents theyve killed?
Yotsuba, Chris and Marida are all war orphans, but marida and chris were raped, marida was also brainwashed and artificially cloned and then died painfully in war, how much distance should be between the 3 in suffering?
>how many points should rape, being an orphan, being forced to kill loved ones, dying, watching friends die, loosing body parts be worth?
This is a bad idea because the same thing can be worse in one situation and lighter in the other. How exactly everything happens in a characters life and in what order is important too. Levels of suffering can't be objectively determined. You can easily say Guts suffers more than Yuki from Mirai Nikki, but there are many characters where the difference is harder to determine.
Assuming Guts and Homura are both orphans
Assuming they were both abused
assuming they both witnessed death of comrades
and assuming homura had to do it all over and over again
guts has the berserker armor and bodily handicaps
but now homura basically made madoka a retarded casca to keep with her at all times
she's like guts and griffith combined
gave extra points because muh orphan
we need to quantify it somehow
He never got to be
the very best.
Are we talkin about
>le who is more edgy XD XD
or about suffering?
Fuck off with you edgy meme
They belong at the bottom, really. They have an overwhelming advantage over basically any difficulty they encounter and can take time off of their problems whenever they feel like it.
>get constantly bullied about having a girl's name
>mom get's vaporized in front of him
>get brightslapped multiple times
>newtype lovers all get killed
>mentor betrays him
>gets mindfucked at the end and becomes a spacenoid vegetable
Archer's suffering is eternal, or at least until the planet dies so I think he deserves to be well at the top.
The brief respite he experienced at the end of UBW is nice and all but he wont remember it.
Does it matter?
Ash is a forever 12 year old jobber.
Nigga wins all the gyms, many times after a rematch and generally just fucks around with a bunch of girls and lolis and that one guy that comes with.
Come crunch time at the league, the fucker never wins and then he just switches regions and does it all over again.
Any "suffering" is all self inflicted. Fucking Gary grew the fuck up and became a pokemon professor; discovering new shit by day and banging a different chick by night, and what has Ash achieved? Fucking nothing.
I swear to god, I'll be six feet under and that faggot will still be a twelve year old jobber who's gone through friends like a fat guy goes through hors d'oeuvres.
I think they've begun to enjoy suffering. As long as they're together they don't care about themselves really. Bernkastel at least understands that for every thousand bad ends anyone gets there's a good end somewhere, equaling out the good and bad possibilities. So it's kind of strange to put them on a grid. It's like, how much can a God suffer watching others suffer, knowing all possibilities are equally valid?
Borderline /a/ because of the shitty OVA, but goddamn does he suffer in Part 2.
>listening to paid shills on /g/
>The little girl cried when she lost her marbles in the desert.
>She searched the desert for one hundred years.
>The little girl cried when she thought she might've lost them in the sea rather than the desert.
>She searched the depths of the sea for one hundred years.
>The little girl cried when she thought she might've lost them in the mountains than the sea.
>How long will it take till she begins to doubt whether or not she actually lost them to begin with?
Put any of those characters on Touma's shoes and they'd be broken many times over. Just because he's crazy and literally cooks and eats suffering for breakfast doesn't mean he didn't suffer through all those worlds.
>in the anime
yes, but he's still in smalltime territory compared to what is coming to him later, if anyone thinks he is at the top of the suffering chart based only on the current in anime then they are in for a surprise. I think the author himself must hate Subaru for what he has done to him.
hasnt he lived and been killed by members of the same family for generations?
lost his body, had to use his brothers body, always loosing
can't move around in light
>Subaru at the same level as Guts
People still salty that she saved Madoka by denying her wish.
>hasnt he lived and been killed by members of the same family for generations?
>lost his body, had to use his brothers body, always loosing
Yes. All because he was a giant fucking asshole who deserved it.
Where does this man fall?
>I think the author himself must hate Subaru for what he has done to him.
Didn't the author admit he's a sadomasochist or something? He fucking wrote a what if chapter for Subaru and Rem just to rub it in, there can't be any other reason to it than him deriving some sick pleasure from all the suffering
It was only two generations. And it's hardly suffering if he's enjoying it the entire time. He pretty much loves the Joestars. And he got to fuck around in Egypt for a couple years training his stand and killing prostitutes or whatever.
>m-muh poor boi
MC definitely loved it. He had been sucking and riding <his killer's> cock on daily basis for a while.
Trips and Quints of Truth
This thread is too long for me to lurk through, but I just wanted to say that, no matter how shitty of a character Subaru is, he is still suffering more than all the listed characters in those pictures. You may not think so now, but when his reset points get even wackier and inconvinient (after seeing his loved ones get fucked hard and not reversing it), you will change your mind.
Yeah Guts had his lover get raped in front of him and saw his friends killed, so what. He's a hardened soldier/warrior (berseker at that). Subaru sees his friends die, get tortured, skinned, erased from other's memory, etc. Some of those things unreversable.
>All those time-loopers suffering 1000+ (minimum) years of suffering is somehow less than Guts who only suffered a few decade's worth of suffering.
All this Gut's suffering wanking is getting out of hand
constant bodily harm, watched his unborn child die try to kill him and then be reborn as the man he wants to kill
raped as a child
watched wife get raped
only person he wants to protect hates him and doesnt want to be near him
best friend is enemy
hacked off own arm to stop wife rape, has to protect world, self and beloved with only broken body
time travel adds mental wounds and fatigue but only subaru really experienced bodily harm in them
Dio who lost his body and still fights for 100s of years without a reset is worse off
True suffering, I think, is not a physical state, but mental. It comes with a fall from happiness. After a certain point - Griffith becoming God hand, say - Guts wasn't suffering anymore
What to us looked like pain and misery was basically ordinary life for him. Even during the Eclipse, it was just another step up from ordinary misery. No different, perhaps, than any other betrayal. He'd already been blacked and backstabbed - what difference was this? At that point, furthermore, he wasn't even suffering that much, because he never lost his faith in himself or his own confidence. His values were never challenged. His core self was not exposed to serious harm. He did not come to doubt his own way of dealing with others and their misery.
IMO he was already too far gone and hard-hearted.
Same goes for Edward. He was in pain a lot. But did he suffer? No, because he was always self-assured.
By contrast, Okabe really did because the events he caused directly led to the destruction of all he loved. His essential self-concept was called into doubt - one key element of suffering. He was also trapped in a moral minefield that he was not equipped to navigate. Even his way out - indifference - was impossible to him, because it was itself against his core ideals and basic understanding of the world.
When one finds oneself in a position of misery with no escape and nobody else to blame, that's true suffering. People like Guts with a purity of purpose and an unimpeachable strength of conviction, IMO, don't suffer in the same way or as much.
Put him a little to the right for being a dumbass. And lower because he just lost a shitty family, and lost them once at that.
If any of those time faggots need 1000+ years to fix their problems then they're retarded. The fact that they can undo most/all of their problems makes them much less meaningful.
but I refuse
did you watch rebellion?
And? If I start listing out all the shit all those time-loopers went through for all of their loops, that shit would be incredibly lame. I mean, fuck, the girl from Higurashi suffered more from a single loop than Guts ever could, and that's just one loop out of many. Yet, she's somehow lower than Guts.
Surface level you might think that but Rika's situation killed her with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY~
Right, I'm sure Touma could have simply stop Othinus from reality warping the entire world just to make him suffer so he would commit suicide by yelling really angry at her and swing a big sword around.
>2 timelines max
He is basically a mercenary for the world, so he can be summoned into any universe at anytime, he constantly is and will for all eternity, to kill people who are causing too much trouble.
>muh ideals and not too much bodily harm
He turned into a nigger
>no real loved ones to protect or watch die
According to him, he himself had to kill the people most close to him.
>no fate of the world on shoulders etc.
Depends what situation he is summoned into. At least according to the anime he was had to deal with nukes before.
>The feds are controlling shitheads
Horribly incompetent ones with no real power. I'm sure you Zeek sympathizing pieces of trash can pull some revisionist nonsense out of your ass to justify gassing and dropping your own colonies though.
>works his way up loosing everything important to him in the process, including his body and soul
>was raped and tortured
gee, hard choice
It would be suffering if he wasn't such a retard and made an eternal pledge for a single stupid and ultimately useless wish. Nevermind the fact that he regained his lost ideals from fighting his past self. And from what I know of the lore, isn't it just a copy of him that's being sent out and not really him?
>not mutant baby
>being hunted every night by monsters that pop out of nowhere
>cant even travel with people or live in human settlements because you are a monster magnet fighting the evil forces sent to kill you by your child and best friend in order to protect your now retarded wife that doesnt let you touch her while the desire to kill eats away at your brain
That's not suffering. He was a robo-man until he learned emotions. It's fucking depressing for us as viewers to see this parody of humanity finally reach emotions, but he never gave a shit himself until the end when he was happy.
>Rika suffering more than Guts in one loop
God no, the worst that happened to her was a painful death that lasted a few minutes. Same with most of the time loopers.
The wish he made i exchange for becoming a CG was just for power, which he could use to save people. I wouldn't call that a useless wish. He didn't go into being a CG knowing what it exactly was, he had to make a quick decision. He thought he would just continue to save people after death rather than just kill. And I'm pretty sure the copy thing only applies when summoned as a Servant.
If you're getting fired up and nationalist about the space side did this or the earth side did that then you're just repeating history.
The Earth is beautiful, but it's time we as the human race leave it behind. Char was wrong about a lot of things, but he wasn't wrong in wanting to help the entire race to a new era, and not just a portion of the population.
Do you want me to start posting all the recent stuff from Berserk and show you how much SUFFERING he has now? Because all of this 'HE'S ALWAYS SUFFERING' is getting way out of hand now.
Polnareff or Johnny would be a better fit.
Azami regenerates from mental damage, so pain never becomes dull. Does that count for anything?
Taken from the wiki, but it does cite sources.
>He had to make a life changing decision. Confronted by a calamity which had the potential of killing one hundred people before him, he decided to "make a contract" with the World to become a hero capable of producing miracles and become a Heroic Spirit after his death. He believed he could save both the lives of the dying people before him and save even more as a hero after his death. Although he desperately fought to end a war, he was in turn branded as the mastermind behind that war and subsequently executed because of the betrayal of his allies. Although he died of betrayal, he did not hate mankind. However, the "World" ironically gave him the duty as a Heroic Spirit "to slaughter all humans at a particular location when mankind is at the threshold of complete self destruction", a "Counter Guardian".
Seems like he did made the wish there.
Anon, the point I was making is that Guts wasn't always 100% suffering every day like some of the people were saying here. Ever since he's gotten his own D&D party, he had been able to get some peace and quiet from time to time.
It really doesn't matter since I had said him suffering as a Counter Guardian was his own damn fault. He made the stupid pledge to save 100 people and many more without first learning what becoming a CG really means.
Rika never killed anyone,
Yotsuba is always fighting.
Also don't forget YASUDAAAA
she is war orphan like many of the other characters in the chart, but she doesn't continue to suffer nor did she deserve any of her suffering
Im done with this shit now
someone figure out how to accurately quantify suffering if you want me to change anything
characters who went through similar things are on the same y axis, how they deal with it changes the x axis
The point is, after all the shit he went through with the HGW and his own mistaught magework, he really should have known to not blindly make eternal pledges, especially for only a mere 100 people. I mean, it's brave and heroic, but it still a dumbass move and he does not get any sort of sympathy from me for his suffering as a CG.
you forgot Kaiji and Oberstein from logh
What about Angra Mainyu? He's randomly selected to shoulder all of mankind's evil, tortured and mutilated throughout his entire life by the people he loved, and cursed to live countless years as a log that can do nothing but hate the world.
And when he finally comes back as a servant he's the weakest of them all.
Rika always kills the one I love.
Yeah he'd be up there.
God I just remembered, he's part of the time-loop crew as well. Except the loop is like a vacation for him.
And then the eternal bro chooses to go back to suffering.
I always liked that about Rika. Even on the verge of insanity, she would rather kill herself than have to kill any of her friends, despite how crazy they may be acting at the time.
>we're making suffering charts now
Please, we all saw how the powerlevel charts turned out. We need to end this before it begins.
not to mention in one iteration he spend his life in a coma and have to watch himself get buried alive, get eaten by maggots and then have his body thrown into space then crushed by a meteor.
Then spended 10,000+ resets just to convince othinus
That also means that watching him suffer is neither interesting nor entertaining. When you remove the emotional aspect to the suffering, you make the suffering itself meaningless. This is especially important in Subaru's case, because he is neither likeable enough for the suffering to make you feel bad, nor is he hateable in a way that makes his suffering vindicating. As things are, I'd much rather if he just ceased to exist and the show focused on the other characters.
Dunno, but like I said, I've got it from the wiki, and it had its sources cited. If you can find another source that says otherwise, I'll accept it. Not that it changes my opinion much since: infinite years of suffering > some arbitrary number of years. Heroic, but ultimately still a dumbass decision.
>he spend his life in a coma and have to watch himself get buried alive, get eaten by maggots and then have his body thrown into space then crushed by a meteor.
thats sound bullshit
>80% deserved it
I'm glad you at least got that part right. In hindsight it's amazing she gets defended by so many sentimental retards when she was the one who fucked her way to the bottom in the first place. For fuck's sake she fucked her own father willingly and actually enjoyed it for who knows how long before her mom found out, and people call her a bitch for beating her ass and kicking her out? Fuck that, the mom was the only real victim in that doujin.
Forgot my picture but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out to whom I am referring.
Takeru loops are weird, he doesn't seem to keep much of his memories on the unlimited timelines, and then he only keeps the general idea when he gets to alternative. He doesn't even seem to remember the time after the bombing at all.
Though it's not like the alternative route was a happy place either, Takeru suffers through and through until he goes back to his timeline
Good enough but Dio still doesn't make sense that high.
He enjoys fighting. He had a decent extended vampire life. I don't know about the Heaven obtained videogame Dio though (he's probably happier)
>Archer tells you about his greatest triumph, saving 10,000 people from a nuclear reactor meltdown
I also played his route like 3 weeks ago and am almost 100% positive 10,000 people is the correct number.
>a dumbass decision
You clearly have no idea who you're talking about. Shirou routinely risks his own life for ONE other person. It's literally not even a question that he'd do it for 10,000 people
what about humanity's only true friend, prometheus-kun?
Probably a bit to the left. I don't really know much about Tomoko so I can't say for sure.
What I mean by that is there's not many bad things actually happening to him. The guy is just trapped in his own he