[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Extra juicy! | Home]

>TV show ends with a heartwrenching moral about one having

This is a blue board which means that it's for everybody (Safe For Work content only). If you see any adult content, please report it.

Thread replies: 85
Thread images: 12

File: Homu.gif (505KB, 500x281px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Homu.gif
505KB, 500x281px
>TV show ends with a heartwrenching moral about one having to sacrifice everything, including her existence, to end the suffering of others.
>Movie goes "fuck that" and has everything reseted so that almost nothing happened, pretty much ruining the whole goddamn theme of the series.
>>
File: Mio_Tension.png (959KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Mio_Tension.png
959KB, 1920x1080px
>tumblr gif
>>
>>144258424

The moral of Rebellion is that a 'happy' existence is still rested on corruption and power. That's as true as the moral of the series.
>>
File: 82IiLOD.jpg (942KB, 1400x1900px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
82IiLOD.jpg
942KB, 1400x1900px
>>144258424
Being a magical is just as much suffering as before. The difference now is that witches don't exist. That isn't much of an accomplishment since wraiths still fuck with humanity as much as witches.

Madoka's success at the end of the series was due to Homura's striving. So too, at the end of Rebellion, did Homura finally succeed at her long-time goal thanks to encouragement from Madoka.
>>
>>144258527
>>144258601

Yeah but during the TV show, we see that Madoka has a loving family and friends with her being forced to sacrifice her seeing them again to end the suffering of others.

Meanwhile we didn't really see anything from Homura except that she was REALLY protective of Madoka and the movie just retcons it like her sacrifice was pointless.
>>
>>144258424
The moral of the movie is that people will do anything for money.
>>
>>144258424
>wahh my story has to have morals

Fuck you. Rebellion was a perfect fit into the series, thematically it made perfect sense as a creation fable. The series was the ascent of magical girl god, rebellion was the descent of magical girl devil.

You'll also notice that love trumps all remains a theme in rebellion as it was in the series. For Madoka, her love for all other magical girls trumps her destiny (with help from Homura). In rebellion, it should be obvious that the same theme is twisted and manipulated, so that Homura's love also trumps her destiny.

Rebellion is brilliant and fits into the existing narrative like a glove. People who hate it (I've seen people call it fanfiction tier writing, are you fucking kidding me) can't even provide coherent arguments about why it's bad. It's a fucking masterpiece, and if I didn't know better I would've thought it was always planned to be released as part of the main narrative.
>>
>>144258424
>almost nothing happened

Thing is, the Homuverse is not exactly the real world, and it's unstable, what with Homura's familiars just running around and possibly killing random people (and, y'know, being controlled by a literally insane teenage girl). It won't last, and that will be the setup for the needed continuation (assuming it'll actually get made).
>>
>>144258768
Madoka acted selfishly in the original.
It's not like she asked anyone's opinion about what she was doing.
Homu is no more selfish than that.
>>
The story is about Homura and Madoka taking turns being the "protector". In timeline one, Homura was protected by Madoka; throughout the TV series, Homura's purpose was to protect Madoka. However, at the end, Madoka sacrifices herself for all magical girls, thus becoming the protector. However, in Rebellion, Homura realizes how painful her sacrifice actually was for Madoka. Therefore she rebels and takes back her position as the protector of Madoka.

Esentially, the wishes of Homura and Madoka conflict with eachother. That's why Madoka attempts to braid Homura's hair in the flower field scene. She wants Homura to return to the useless Moemura that can't do anything but be protected.
>>
>>144258926
>[citation needed]
>>
>>144259095
Which is nicely symbolized in the ribbon they keep passing back and forth.
>>
>>144258424
Homura's only goal was to save Madoka. She failed at it, at the end of the tv show, but made it happen at the end of Rebellion. Yeah, she sacrificed herself for it to happen, but she did it for her loved one and to make everyone happy.
Homura literally did nothing wrong.
>>
>>144258871
I don't hate it, but outside of the ending the film felt like too much cheap fanservice.

Charlotte is added to the main cast because of fan popularity, Sayaka and Kyouko are holding hands out of nowhere because of fan shipping, and the mere premise puts all five girls together. It made for a fun watch but there's not a lot of substance before Homura fucks everything up.
>>
>perpetual failure
>hateful bitch
>abuses Madoka
>has a loveless obsession with owning Madoka
>ruined everything constantly
>psychopathic murderer
>literally evil itself having destroyed Madoka's heaven
>torments and brainwashes everyone for her own amusement
>Madoka never cared about her
>fucked a wraith out of lust and selfish spite
>is the most selfish whore ever
>original wish was made solely to keep Madoka to herself
>most hated character by far globally

Homura and Rebellion are the worst. Glad they're more hated than Jarjar and the prequels.
>>
>>144259194
>make everyone happy
Lets be honest here, it was just to make Madoka happy.
>>
>>144259334
>sacrifices herself to make her love one happy
>everyone else is happy too
Nothing to complain about, famalam.
>>
>>144259273
Okay Homu, time to stop posting.
>>
>>144259425
I'm not complaining, I don't think what Homu did was wrong. Not any more wrong that anyone else in the series.
And the outcome did turn out fine for everyone but her.
It's a mistake to think she did it for anyone other than madoka though.
>>
>>144259467
Degenerate homushitters like you will die alone like Homushit.
>>
>>144259218
The early fanservicey part isn't actually that long. It felt like forever on my first watch, but rewatching it a bunch of times the plot starts moving forward pretty fast. Right after Hitomi's nightmare.

I agree that Nagisa was most likely only added for fanservice. Hopefully they make her character a bit more interesting in the sequel. Sayaka and Kyouko holding hand were like 5 seconds, I don't know why that bothers you so much. Doesn't really go against anything previous in the franchise.

>>144259334
Madoka will always be Homura's first priority, but I dislike how people think that's literally everything she cares about. I agree that what she did in Rebellion was for Madoka's sake though.
>>
>>144258424
>everything reseted so that almost nothing happened
And now you realize how shortsighted Madoka's wish was.
>>
>>144259614
It's pretty clear she doesn't really care for the others. If it would have helped Madoka she would have thrown them under the bus for sure.
>>
>>144258424
>he finally understood why the movie is called Rebellion
>>
>>144259614

Kyoko chooses to remain by Sayaka's side and die with her, but suddenly holding hands is too gay?
>>
>>144258768
>like her sacrifice was pointless.
It wasn't pointless, as it:
A: Ended the witches
B: Enabled Homura to fix things in the movie

>>144259194
>Homura's only goal was to save Madoka
Rebellion is literally the fulfillment of Homura's wish at long last.
>>
>>144259614
>Sayaka and Kyouko holding hand were like 5 seconds, I don't know why that bothers you so much.
It wasn't that bad but felt very abrupt. If anything Kyouko could have initiated it instead, last we saw in the TV timeline she wasn't exactly Sayaka's top priority.

I guess being part of a supernatural phenomenon gives you a lot of time to think.
>>
File: 1304223255424.jpg (181KB, 518x780px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1304223255424.jpg
181KB, 518x780px
>>144258424
The ending of the TV show is about the amassing of wealth by the capitalists (Madoka, a well-off girl, daughter of a high ranking businesswoman), from the hard work of the proletariat (Homura - who started as a sickly girl, who had to grow strong on her own, going through every trial and tribulation to get her job done). The ending is an allegory of Trickle Down Economics, in which the Magnanimous Magnate "irradiates" wealth to the working class. However, this so-called wealth is nothing but illusions in the form of religion, in which payment is supposed to come after death (i.e. the Law of Cycles).

On the other hand, in Rebellion we see the triumph of the proletariat over the bourgeois. After living through the "world" of Madoka (the bourgeois) Homura (the proletarian) realised none of the promises of happiness or proper payment for her work had been kept, and all she found herself doing was dirty work in an unfair world. The movie starts with Homura watching/living a dream, in which they were all happy, worked and accomplished things together. Victory and its spoils were divided fairly. You could even see the different type of behaviour shown by characters marked their ideology (Mami, the rich girl, and Sayaka, the dumb now religious girl were against Homura, whereas Kyouko, the poor girl who left religion was an ally). This was, of course, an allegory of Communism, which could only exist as a dream as long as the current system (i.e. Capitalism/The Law of Cycles) remained at work. So, Homura had to end the dream, in order to make it a reality. And thus, at the time when the bourgeois thought they were about to win, Homura seized power and remade the world, like a victorious revolution should.

Hell, even their magical outfits show us their positions. Madoka, the ballerina shows the pleasure of the rich, Mami is dresses like an aristocrat, and Sayaka look like a prostitute (lumpenproletariat), whereas Homura ls a freedom fighter and Kyouko a warrior.
>>
>>144259872
>Rebellion is literally the fulfillment of Homura's wish at long last.
Do you even reading comprehension?
>>
>>144258601
>That isn't much of an accomplishment since wraiths still fuck with humanity as much as witches.
That still applies to Akuma world, you dumbhomu poster
>>
>>144258424
about the only "good" madoka ever did was helping me identify and avoid girls who are stupid, emotional wrecks
>>
>>144259702
Look at it from her perspective. Madoka was the one she ended up latching herself onto, but her encounter with Mami and Madoka was actually pretty similar. Mami going nuts after finding out the truth and all that might have affected her impression of Mami, but there's no way she doesn't hold any affection whatsoever. Also apparent in Rebellion where Homura aims at Mami's legs instead of her head after the fight.


Kyouko was always seen to be in a pretty good relationship with Homura. Spending 100 timelines like that probably built up some affection for her as well.

Sayaka always screwed up her plans with her stupidity, so I honestly wouldn't blame her if her impression of Sayaka isn't that great. I don't doubt that she'd throw Sayaka under the bus if it was necessary to save Madoka, but it isn't something she would like doing. She isn't heartless.
>>
Homura did nothing wrong
>>
>>144259095
>>144259143
woah, i never noticed that. any more?
>>
How well do you people ACTUALLY understand Homura's suffering and devotion?

Exhibit A: Her battle with Walterpuss. Watch that sucker, she's good at it. How many tries do you think it took her? A hundred? Yeah, maybe for each section. Butterfly effect, assholes; get one thing, ONE TINY THING, wrong in the beginning of the battle, and the whole thing could go to shit. She's done that battle THOUSANDS of times. Each time loop is something like 6 weeks. This is some Nagato level time looping here. She's been doing this for something on the order of 16 years. She's no little girl anymore.

With exhibit A established:
Exhibit B: She's managed to make this super-coordinated battle with Walruspiss, but is beating that thing her goal? HELL NO. Her goal is to stop Madoka from becoming a magical girl, full stop. Once Madoka contracts, her turning into a witch is inevitable. So for SIX WEEKS, Homura has to stop Madoka from becoming a witch. Homura has become exceedingly efficient at this as well. She knows everything that's going to happen; she's seen it a thousand times or more. Did she know Mami was going to die? No, she PLANNED IT THAT WAY. Mami has to die at the exact right moment to stop Madoka from contracting. And all the other girls? They all have to BECOMES magical girls at the right times. Homura probably even was manipulating things in a certain way to turn Sayaki into a witch at the right moment.

Final exhibit: Homura still acts surprised when things happen, even though she knows exactly what is going to happen. But we know it's all an act. She's not surprised when Mami dies, she planned it. She's not surprised that Sayaki turned into a witch, she planned it. Homura has planned and plotted everything to stop Madoka for 6 weeks. She's a cold-hard bitch for certain, but that's matched by her love for her one friend.
>>
>>144259968
>Do you even reading comprehension?
I don't follow. My reading comprehension is probably among the best you will ever come across.
>>
File: sayaka glare.jpg (91KB, 516x583px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
sayaka glare.jpg
91KB, 516x583px
>>144259943
>Sayaka look like a prostitute
Your mum looks like a prostitute
>>
>>144260425
Then how did you manage to miss the fact that I've sad the same thing, you did?
>>
>>144260529
I could have added "In other words" or "tl;dr" to the start of my comment, but I did add to your comment by pointing out it was her contractual wish.
>>
>>144260025
This.
Holy shit.
I thought I was the only one.
>>
>>144258424
>heartwrenching
I have to admit that the feels were never that much forced before. Sqarefaceautistloli heroin and pseudodramaticedgelordyuri 'villain' seemed to not even be enough to force the feels out of from the viewer, so they had to cut cowtit's head to get people to react.
>>
>>144260672
what
>>
>>144258424
Hey, Homura sacrificed everything too.
Madoka maintened the status quo by taking all the negative consequences on herself.
Homura rebelled against madoka only to take her place. It's still the same.

Homura could be seen as the by product of Madoka's altruism, and Madoka could be seen as the by product of Homura's selfishness.

Rebellion is just as important as the main series.
>>
>>144260518
stay mad sayafag
>>
>>144261032
Prostitutes don't wear capes
>>
File: 1467512769104.jpg (115KB, 1280x870px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1467512769104.jpg
115KB, 1280x870px
>>144260672

Kinda funny how the author's plan backfired when he decided to kill Mami. Story was supposed to be about Sayaka, Madoka and Homura with Mami and Kyouko as side-characters (with both of them explained in TDS) but everyone just fell in love with Mami (she even won the 2010's waifu bowl).
>>
>>144260358
There is tons of symbolism in Rebellion.
>>
>>144258424
>Movie called Rebellion rebels against the original themes lf the series
Gee anon, it's like taht was the plan.

>>Movie goes "fuck that" and has everything reseted so that almost nothing happened, pretty much ruining the whole goddamn theme of the series.
Are you a fucking idiot? It didn't "reset" anything. Kyouko and Sayaka are now friends, along with Mami and Nagisa.Sayaka deep down knows Homura is the devil, even if her memory has been temoorarily sealed. Madoka is still a god, but her power is being repressed and her memory sealed. Homura is a "devil" and carries the burden of the Law of Cycles for the time being. It's a reset in name only. The actions, consequences, and relationships built during the series and Rebellion are still intact and Homura's universe isn't going to last more than another movie. The only thing left is for Madoka and Homura to get over their masochistic martyr complexes and team up to curbstomp Kyubitch and rewrite universe one last time.
>>
>>144261085
I'm not a yuri shipper, especially not crack. I just don't want people to have the impression that Homura is heartless and indifferent to any character except Madoka.
>>
>>144261092
They didn't "just" fall in love with Mami, all the characters are popular. And Homura and Madoka are the most popular. So I think it worked out there.
>>
>>144260672
This post explains so much about the Madoka hatebase to be honest.
>>
>>144260840
People who hate rebellion never understood the original series.
>>
>>144258827
this
>>
>>144261092
>Episode 1-3 Mami chaoter
>4-6 Sayaka choater
>7-9 Kyouko chapter
>10-12 Madoka and Homura chapter
>Rebellion Homura chapter
It flowed exactly how he wanted it.
>>
>>144261265
I didn't. I was under the impression that "affection" could mean in a friendship sense. If I'm wrong, feel free to ignore that choice of words.
>>
Fuck, HomuHatter and ACK are back. We were having such comfy Madoka threads too.
>>
>>144258424
>to end the suffering of others
What about Homura, her suffering doesn't count?
>>
>>144261353
>I was under the impression that "affection" could mean in a friendship sense
Of course it can, and I think any sane person would read your post like you intended it.
This >>144261521 is very much not an example of a sane person, so don't worry about it. Just keep discussing the series and ignore him. Lately the janitors have actually been doing their job and keeping him out of these threads, too.

I agree with you, by the way. People seem to think that Homura's somehow completely unfeeling, but it's pretty clear she doesn't relish hurting the other girls.
>>
>>144261838
>Ended the suffering of magical girls
>Made Homura's wish ungrantable
>Homura is a magical girl
>Made Homura suffer so hard she became the devil

Really makes you think.
>>
it's not that deep lol.
>>
>>144262057
>People seem to think that Homura's somehow completely unfeeling, but it's pretty clear she doesn't relish hurting the other girls.
This is something that bothers me overall. Homura is definitely focused on muh 'doka, but she shows grief and mourning when Mami and Kyouko die. She saves Sayaka when she foghts against Kyouko and tries again when she's despairing. She only decides to kill her when it become apparent Sayaka can't be saved. This would have also saved Sayaka from becoming a witch. And Homura was absolutely not under any obligation to not kill Sayaka and Nagisa or reunite them with their pairings.
>>
>>144258424
Puella Magi Madoka Magica: REBELLION
>>
>>144258424
>to end the suffering of others

>Sayaka, the one shown in detail how the changes made by Madoka affected her, still went through the cycle of hope turning into despair and because of this was rescued by her before she became a bitch like was/would be done with every other MG
>no suffering

You just ought to have given it a little more thought OP.
>>
File: 1437171338746.jpg (100KB, 998x810px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1437171338746.jpg
100KB, 998x810px
>>144265198
>bitch
Fug. I totally meant "witch" when I typed this, really.
>>
>>144263962
>And Homura was absolutely not under any obligation to not kill Sayaka and Nagisa or reunite them with their pairings.

Nor are you under any obligation not to kill the people around you. But you, I, and to a lesser extent Homura are still human. Unless she were a literal psychopath, why would she not try to avoid needless death?

It's really just the fanbase projecting and oversimplifying things as usual, it's not like she's presented as such in the series. Doesn't she outright say in the movie that she dislikes Mami because it's too hard to watch her break every time? Homu is clearly affected by everything around her, it's just that Madoka is a higher priority.

Also: based Janitors.
>>
Rebellion was the most Nietzschean thing I've ever seen.
>>
>>144265250
sure you did
>>
>>144259108
(you)
>>
>>144265298
>Nor are you under any obligation not to kill the people around you
I meant Nagisa and Sayaka continued existence are both existntial threats to Homura's universe. It would have been much easier to kill them both, but as we both agree, Homura isn't a monster.
>>
>>144265572
>Nagisa and Sayaka continued existence are both existntial threats to Homura's universe.
I see two other issues with this:
1) As shown in the end of the Movie, Homura's world is clearly unstable and Madoka is on the verge of recovering her memory. Homu might not want to try something too drastic like removing Sayaka outright, even if 'Doka doesn't remember her right now.
2) By the end of the film, Homura isn't what she used to be. At the very least, she's just a little bit power drunk. I doubt she actually perceives Nagisa or Sayaka as a threat, not to mention that she didn't expect Sayaka to retain her memories to begin with.
>>
>>144262900
Here's your (You)
>>
>>144265572
The actual threat we know of is Madoka, but that can't be helped. Sayaka's memory wipe is a sure thing and what little spoilers are known seem to confirm that in the possible new project she is figuratively in no position to threaten the status quo from Rebellion. As for Nagisa, nothing was ever stated anywhere. She could be a potential threat like Sayaka but the writers have done nothing so far, they've only left open the possibility.

Not intending to argue on the actual point that was being talked about, by the way. I only intended to add a few clarifications on this example.
>>
>>144266058
As long as Homura doesn't interact with Madoka, she'll remain sealed. It's the earring being in her proximity that awakens Madoka's power. Something has to get the ball rolling and there's a 90% chance of that being Sayaka.
Sayaka beginning to regain her memory in the concept movie more or less confirms this.
>>
>>144266407
Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that Mami would have a bigger role in the new project? It's possible Mami will end up being the trigger.
>>
>>144266407
But then how close is too close? Why attend the same class that Madoka goes to?
>>
>>144266407
Are you sure it's not just Madoka seeing something that triggers her memories that gets her to start unsealing?
>>
>>144266564
It's her sensing something's amiss. Or to be closer to her words, that she feels she is not where she ought to be.
>>
File: image.jpg (309KB, 850x1204px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
image.jpg
309KB, 850x1204px
>>144266478
It's literally Sayaka's only purpose at this point. Mami's role doesn't necessarily have to be tied to either Madoka's power or Homura. It seems more like she'll be a middle man between the two. She's literall the middle man in the promo material.

>>144266501
She can be close enough to see Madoka, but not close enough to build an actual relationship with her. That was pretty much the implication. It begins glinting when they walk in the hallway together.

Also the earring can come off and move. But the production notes say it can't really be trusted to be by itself for long periods of time.
>>
>>144266564
The jewel of the earring is literally her sealed powers.
>>
File: image.png (781KB, 720x1080px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
image.png
781KB, 720x1080px
>>144258601
Which Homu was best Homu?
>>
>>144267029
Homura-chan is Homura-chan.
>>
>>144267296
But which Homura-chan is best Homura-chan?
>>
>>144258424
>TV show ends with a heartwrenching moral about one having to sacrifice everything, including her existence, to mitigate the suffering of others as best as she can
>Movie ends with heartwrenching moral about one having to sacrifice everything, including the one person who will ever understand her, to mitigate the suffering of others as best as she can
It's the same ending and in both instances they are only able to do the best they can. Suffering is an intrinsic part of the Madoka universe and our universe for that matter. It's impossible and counter productive to actually end suffering because it requires killing hope. This is why Kriemhild Getchen's goal was to exterminate life: there is no suffering if there is no life to experience it.
>>
>>144267029
Moeblob Homu is the only good Homu. Specially when she suffers
>>
They're all the same character.
Thread posts: 85
Thread images: 12


[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Top | Home]
Please support this website by donating Bitcoins to 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5
If a post contains copyrighted or illegal content, please click on that post's [Report] button and fill out a post removal request
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows an archive of their content. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.