/a/ lately complains a lot about Isekai series and mmorpg-like series

It's not my job to come up with a better fantasy story.

>>144166303
it'd be nice if they just created a world

not have to structure it on mmo mechanics
they way they do it is just so blatant too

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Something with actual world building like Slayers and a spunky female lead who gathers a competent party.

>>144166303
No.
Fuck off, that's his problem as a man of one's craft. Half-assing it just because of one's shitty clientele is a disservice to the craft.

To be fair though, being a writer means sucking the editor's cock.

>>144166303
How about making a world people can be interested in and make it to have deep lore or something. Instead of, copy pasted shit

Acid trip?
Though I never tried any - I had a few vivid dreams that can be used as a base for world building.
The Snow world and The Pit world what would call them.

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More Overlord type shows would be great, It was completely different and actually had likable characters.

An orc falls in love with an elf

>>144166788
Then do it.

>>144166303
>you know your readers doesn't give a shit about it
Once you start thinking about your readers, you are disqualified as an author.

>>144166303
>draw a fantasy setting
>call it an mmo
It's getting old.
Not like any of these shit LNs are actually using the setting to do anything new or interesting.

>>144166303
>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?

Sure can, why not? Cant you?

>>144166788
Well, honestly with most japanese fantasy works I don't think is a problem of the setting itself, generic settings even copy paste ones are fine, like you know, any campaign can be fun even in generic D&D setting.

Problem is most of japanese works seems to forget that FIRST, the adventurers should go to find adventures and not sit in a town and wait for the adventures to come to them and SECOND, there has to be some kind of quest/purpose/journey objective. but most works seems to dely this as much as possible or simply don't even bother and go for random villains one after another then again not even going after them but waiting them to come.

>>144166303
Yeah, it's called spice and Wolf.

I always thought the issue with most Isekai were the characters, not so much the setting. They tend to be insufferable pricks and at the beginning they're oh so wronged or something. But then everything pretty much just snowballs their way and they pretty much have an easy as fuck route. The characters never improve personality wise and at the end of it all, you've still got the same insufferable punk.

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>>144167214
Also, forgot to mention than most part of the time is more pseudoparody than simply generic.

To be honest, I'm just happy we're getting more westernised medieval fantasy stuff. It used to be really rare.

>>144167484
What kind of medieval fantasy stuff is there besides western?

More focus on the fantastical elements. Have the characters immersed in the world instead of the world immersed in the characters.

>>144166303
>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?

Take any Isekai story, remove all "appraisal" skill, and game mechanic (skill/lv.).

>>144167527
Rokka had a sort of Western-Mesoamerican style to it. There's also the Middle-Eastern stuff from Arslan.

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>illustrations by houtengeki

>>144167050
Unable to confess, he is gifted with by a deus ex machina with the elf’s magic mirror

>>144167638
Medieval means middle ages, middle ages means Europe, Europe means Western.

Ergo anything medieval cannot be eastern.

>>144166303
Take notes from Blame.

>>144167712
You're correct. And also pretty nitpicky.

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>>144166303
> You can't complain if you can't make write a better story

>>144167703
The deus ex machina is literally so, and the orc leaves the elf for bloodthirsty adventure!

>>144166303
>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?
I'm pretty sure any non-autist could.

Also, the "Why don't you then?" argument is really stupid. Some people actually have legitimate careers they pursue or are interested in other things. You're like one of those autists on youtube who gets angry at people giving constructive criticism to musicians and reply with "How about you play it then."

>>144166618
A lot of older fantasy LNs and animu from nipland were based off D&D campaigns like Record of Lodoss War, and Slayers was just a parody of then. Now you just replace D&D with MMOs, and you have modern fantasy animu. And you also have modern parodies of them like Ixion Saga DT and Kono Suba.

Things really haven't changed too much. You're just a faggot with nostalgia goggles.

Isekai is more a problem in the LN industry where there's a shit ton of them, they are quite uniform in content and poorly constructed. Many of them are literally like copying your plot and characters from a handful of Wikipedia articles.

Isekai isn't an inherent problem, it's just a subset of "journey" style narratives. The recent anime isekai have all focused on different things and so don't suffer from the problems the LN industry is having.

>>144167848
That's not really the same thing at all.

I don't remember a craze of anime/LN with actual D&D rules/mechanics shoved into them, even if the settings were inspired by it.

I always thought the problem with isekai is that they tend to turn into harems or just be harems in disguise

>>144167848

MMO anime are a lot more casual with dropping meta concepts, though. That is what grates people the most.

With Lodoss, the D&D rules were in place but they weren't openly discussed by the characters (who probably didn't even know them). Nobody commented on "his AC is -8!" or "my THAC0 is too low!" like you hear in MMO anime where they discuss mechanics like a min/maxer.

>>144168034
Of course.
They're basically built around self-insertion and wish fulfillment, as any modern LN is.

It's easier to make a faggot MC 'special' in a video game setting.

>>144166303
You know it's just occurred to me that the first thing I read with a "trapped in another world with a bullshit ability" thing was actually an MMO. Mabinogi specifically.

People brought in from elsewhere into the world have slight incompatibilities with portions of reality, including the inability to be fully, among other things . It got brought up a good couple of times in the story.

>>144166788
It's been done. /a/ called it convoluted shit and dropped it.

>>144166303
I don't understand. Isekai is 99% actual fantasy, but with a main character taken from our world. Literally all you would need to do is take any of the characterization you gave to all the side characters and turn one into a MC. Likewise, it has the exact same issue of making the setting likable. You're acting like they're two wholly different genres when the reality is just that isekai is pure escapism for people who feel like they live dull lives but would totally become a different and amazing person if they were teleported to another world with that likable setting. It's also a lazy way to provide exposition about that setting, since the protagonist is the epitome of fish out of water. It'd be more interesting if they'd cover the hardships of being trapped in such a foreign land, but they're usually so convenient because otherwise it wouldn't be wish fulfillment. Not that I'm saying there's anything inherently wrong with that, but the veneer is awfully thin when it comes to this genre.

>>144166303
Make an isekai story except the alternate world is even more technologically advanced and much more rigid than we are, so we're the "fantasy" world to the other side.

>>144168606
Examples?

>>144168872
I hope he isn't referring to Grimgar. Shitty characters and plot with pretty backgrounds.
>characters end up in fantasy world
>they dont seem to remember where they came from
>for no reason whatsoever they decide to take on the dangerous role of adventuring instead of working in a shop or skilled labor
>bullshit drama ensues

>>144168991
According to LN it is because the local humans are racists towards otherworlders so noone wants to hire them .
Which is retarted for me.

>>144166303
>Also, how do you create a proper fantasy setting that is likeable when you know your readers doesn't give a shit about it.
Why wouldn't your readers give a shit about it?
You need examples of good fantasy settings? Tales of Mu. Mother of Learning. Lord of the Rings. Gate! Thus the jsdf fought there.
Lore there is given in small portions as characters go do their own things.

>>144169250
>gate
>good

>>144168871
>every alien invading anime ever.

>>144166303
>you can't complain if you can't do better

I've seen this crappy argument so many times, and almost always it's to defend shit that even the fan knows stinks. It's like these people have never heard of food critics, movie reviwers, etc

>>144169154
Yeah even then it is retarded. Why are they going out "adventuring" getting yourselves killed with no real goal? It wasn't like they were tasked with saving the world or killing the demon king. They could just start their own commune where they farm, fish, and hunt. I mean shit, they were able to acquire a pretty nice house even when they weren't getting any money from low level adventuring. It wouldn't have been so bad if every character wasn't flat and boring.

>>144169250
>Gate! Thus the jsdf fought there.
Are you serious? This is not a good example.
>modern military absolutely demolishes knights, even at hand to hand combat
>fantasy lords are just cocky and stupid
>YAMATO DAMASHII

>>144169154
What do you mean, everyone knows that the best thing to do with people you hate is to give them weapons and organize them into a fighting force.

>>144169371
Yeah, sorry. Momentarily forgot American history.

>>144169469
What are you referring to?

>>144169586
Ask /pol/ , they will be happy to give you a full explanation. This is not the right thread.

>>144166303
I like isekai. It's a pretty good frame to make a lot of stories completely different from each other. Re:zero, overlord, log horizon, sao, are all "isekai" and you cant say they are the same thing at all.

LNs are amazing.
They're a collection of the worst writers pandering to the dumbest audience possible.

What will the next LN 'genre' be?

>>144169469
I guess he is referring to the Iran Contra affair. But this isn't the place to shit post about politics please.

>>144167848
Except Slayers and Record of Lodoss War are GOOD, and most isekai are BAD

>>144169728
I loved Slayers and Slayers Next, but even I have to admit that the slapstick humor it relied on got very tiring. Slayers Try, Revolution, and Evolution were not good.

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>>144169728
Pic related was shit and it was the same kind of anime as the 2 you mentioned .
It is only about the writer's skills.

>>144169343
Every anime about alien invasions are only about both sides killing each other. An isekai would consist of aliens getting introduced to skydiving, skinny dipping in polar water, getting drunk married at a casino, zoophillia, and other assorted strange things that humans do.

>>144166303
Does it need to be Isekai? I'd just use people from that world instead of bringing betas from Japan.

I'd create a world with long lost 19-century like technology thanks to a world wide war between two races, half buried cities, a mysterious wasteland v that separated them for centuries and just now people have started to make trade roads between them. The MC is the son of a merchant in his first long trip with his father, attacked by bandits and sold to a rich landlord, he serves as his butler, learns to fight, the Lord starts to care for him like a son and then the king kills the Lord for his influence was getting larger and the kingdom feed up with the king, so the MC leads a rebellion for vengeance with the help of mysterious powers from the people across the wasteland.

Add the Lord's daughter as main love interest, childhood friend who became strong while searching for the MC and becomes his right hand during the rebellion, cute loli looking witch from the wasteland, lizard people here and there, the King's lewd maid doing assassinations, etc.

>>144169866
Fun idea, but it wouldn't appeal to self-insert fags and 'born in the wrong generation' fags.

No sales.

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>>144167050
fund it

>>144169949
It is basically gunotaku without guns.

>>144169859
That's the one written by Nasu, Urobutcher, and a few others, right?

I completely forgot it existed, how was it?

>>144170032
The anime was shit comparable to SAO.

>>144169949
>I'd create a world with long lost 19-century like technology thanks to a world wide war between two races, half buried cities, a mysterious wasteland
Sora no woto?

>>144169985
But archaic fantasy worlds is only one direction of "wrong generation". The other would be being born too early to experience magic-level of tech.

There's two perspectives that can be taken from this kind of setting and that's from both the lonely salarymen and aliens / not-humans.

>>144170128
S2 never. I have to create my own.

>>144167848
Those old anime dont have people talking about dice rolls, inventories, and levelling up

>>144166303
>how do you create a proper fantasy setting that is likeable when you know your readers doesn't give a shit about it.
I would go full autistic with it a la Kawakami.

>>144168872
>>144168991
I was referring to Horizon on the Middle of Nowhere.

>>144168872
Fate.

>>144166303
>/a/ lately complains a lot about Isekai
Most of /a/ didn't even know what Narou was. It was mostly the so called 'reverse shilling'.

It would be better if they just did regular fantasy instead of shoving in self insert MCs and using MMO mechanics as a crutch in order to explain the entire world.

>>144166303

They have quite a few successful fantasy titles, from the past, to use for reference. Instead we get "NEET, loser and/or self- insert gets sent to another world."

The few that do try something different never sell well. Sadly, me appreciating them just isnt enough.

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>>144166303
>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story
just do an anime in wh fb setting about genki female bright wizard as she travels with state trooper company within the army of some elector count.

she will be in a reverse-harem slice of life at the beginning, but the story will actually take the dark turn as characters are exposed to the reality of infantry combat and medieval cruelty of the old world. mc will mature and come to understand how the bounds of civilization and sigmarite religion allow upper classman like her lead a cheerful life in the cruel and dark world she lives in and she will retire to the altdorf college in the end, meanwhile most of her trooper friends are dead, a few veterans who survived the series are too desensitized by combat to really keep up the friendship they developed in the beginning of the series. you know, like actual combat veterans in our world. in the last episode she meets a scarred version of comical relief inexperienced guy from the beginning, who was in love with her, of the story who's now a sergeant, and in a slicey way they will ponder at how they can't really relate anymore to each other while drinking wine.

the story is a kind of "growing up" shonen thing done correctly and honestly.

>>144171282
You mean typemoon or anime?

>>144171104
>http://www.novelupdates.com/series/kyoukai-senjou-no-horizon/
>Ecchi, Shounen
>Tits on poster
Sure, I'm already convinced anon

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>>144166303
>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?
Creating stories isn't hard

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>>144172914

Not him, but at least give Horizon a try. It's no masterpiece, but is a good example of what we could have in relation to fantasy/adventure.

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Sure?

>>144172914
You should try it. I give it 90% you drop it before you actually know what's it like though considering you're judging it based on broad categories on a catalogue site.

>>144172686
Seeing the sales for Chaika peter out was miserable. At least we are getting more Bahumat.

>>144173607
Nice reverse psychology, faggot.
I'd try it but it doesn't seem to be updated that ofter after vol4.

>>144170032
The only good part about it was the worldbuidling. The characters are all bad, the plot is barely there, and it tries so hard to be edgy, and miserably falls flat on its face that it's almost amusing. Don't bother with it at all.

>>144166303
>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?

Yes. Quit being lazy shits, Japan.

MMO themed Fantasy shows are garbage shortcuts. You have no idea how many times I got excited about a new fantasy themed anime, only for it to be about fucking MMO's.

What happened to stuff like Lodoss War or Escaflowne? Even Seven Deadly Sins is breddy gud since it's making an original world and ideas.

FUCK mmo anime.

>>144170032
Terrible, like "one if the worst things I watched in my life" tier of bad.

Characters, premise and setting were OK, in fact it was pretty solid in those aspects but had serious production issues, it was stupidly rushed (like characters rescuing a baby and next scene they were already fighting bad guy without never knowing what happened with the baby they carried), and the budget was extremly low

>>144166303
Fantasy is shit in the first place

>>144166303
Crown Prince, deciding it'd be better to explore the world and have fun than become king, fakes illness and has his younger, mildly capable brother take over the position as he goes out on a long escapade. As is, travelling through his kingdom and solving problems makes him start caring for his subjects. Story ends when a few years later, former crown prince becomes caring for the people and decides to come back home to rule them, his travels making him aware of the issuess in the kingdom.
Setting wise, magic is fairly scarce amongst humans, arcane spellcasters being fairly rare and mostly secluded to take the most out of their potential, and divine power wise only a few out of hundreds who take religious orders ever display any magic capabilities, and most of those tend to be minor magic anyways.

I don't mind isekai. If nothing else, it makes the first minutes more natural. The MC knows nothing, so the introductions are real. We don't need lines like "That was a nice move, sasuga Juria Kuroschwarz, student council president of the magic battle academy, and princess of the country Yamaberg". I mean just look at how the character and world introductions turned out in Alderamin.

That said, if they do isekai, they should stick with it. The setting should be used, so don't pull a Grimgar.

I like isekai/fantasy. What I don't like is the self-inserting wish fulfillment power fantasy bullshit aka Mushoku Tensei.

>>144173840
>seven deadly sins
As much as i like Pride it is fucking shit .

>>144174603
It was good before they tried introducing power levels.

>>144174073
>deciding it'd be better to explore the world and have fun than become king
>mildly capable brother take over the position
>former crown prince becomes caring for the people and decides to come back home to rule them

What an asshole prince, he didn't change as much as he thinks, he was selfish leaving the post to his brother and now he is being selfish he deserves the throne because he learned things about his people.

I hope younger brother tells him "fuck you" and fight him for the throne.

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>>144172811
Fucking fund it.

>>144166303
Easy anon. Popular shonen manga constantly does this.Dragon Ball, One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach all manage to make a believable world with quite a success. Fantasy doesn't need to be medieval europe with elf and magic and shit.

>>144174259
That's a problem with LN writting you know not that you can't make if flow naturally even without Isekai. LN tend to much to vomit everything soon so they can go with doing nothing happening through the rest of the series.

Although I agree Isekai itself is not the problem, but what it comes later, I remember Isekai like Scaflowne, 12 kingdoms, Isekai Seikishi or El Hazard and the Isekai part wasn't annoying at all.

BTW, I'm also triggered by the habit of calling everyone for their enire names "Well done, Lux Arcadia" "Sasuga, Hisarai Hayato".

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Animate Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and A2. There you go, good isekai anime.

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>>144172811
That sounds terribly familiar

>>144173832
The translator also does Kamachi's stuff which he shifts focus to occasionally so he doesn't get behind.

Isekai is perfectly fine, whats wrong is not Isekai itself its the overuse of RPG and MMO shit that's being over produced. The first step to alleviating this is to make a unique setting rather than just copying off of every other trapped in an MMO shit that's currently airing.

>>144173832
What are you talking about? The last new translation for it came out only last week and considering the format the first book of volume four is the eighth book of the series overall.

>>144177647
>Kamachi
What again?

>>144177381
really? what does it sound familiar to?

>>144166303
Most Isekai-mmorpg wolds in anime don't even need to be such. Just make it a regular fantasy world and it'll be less grating.

>>144166303
Who cares? I dig isekai, Japs dig isekai and it's not stopping anytime soon.

Besides animu watchers shouldn't even be complaining. Not untill they adapt Maken no Daydreamer ;^)

>>144178329
...fair enough, I gave another look to the translators page and you're right.

>>144167816
Doesn't that demonstrate that you're actually full of shit because you have no idea about original writing?

>>144173832
It's being translated by js06, and I'm fairly certain he's also translating other Kawakami works as well plus Kamachi novels on the weekends and a few others.

>>144179029
Yeah, and you else have to be a chef to say food tastes bad.

>>144166303
>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?
they should make the genre in reverse like some teenage European boys and girls travel to edo japan

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>>144167639
My dick would explode

>>144173832
4 volumes (not books) of Horizon is around 25-30 normal sized 300ish LNs

You've got a shitload to read.

>>144179312
But the western kid won't have played a game about it.

>>144179410
>300ish page LNs*

>>144179029
>This car has 2 flat tires and a broken radio.
>Well why don't YOU make a better car!

>>144179410
>>144179483

Nobody but autists have the time to read 30 fucking volumes and 10000 pages.

>>144180165
Get a fucking job that gives you freedom to do whatever the fuck you want like read manga and LNs while you're making money.
If you don't have a job, then you have plenty of time.

>>144180165
Then don't complain that ~300 page books have no depth to them.

are there any stories where orcs aren't evil or that there's an orc character?

or a story where elves aren't raped?

>>144180926
Elvenblood.

>>144180926
There are but it's hentai one.
And it's NTR.

>>144180926
That Nice Orc story obviously.

>>144168069
Yeah, lot of people doesn't get that difference. Today it would be equivalent to characters in Lodoss talking about rolling dices and constitution checks.

>>144166303
Generic fantasy bland mc is better than neet mc. Neet mcs cause every show reusing same jokes about 4th wall no one ever liked.
Every single isekai would be better without neet mc, the good ones are about good secondary characters anyway.

>>144182083
You play whichever way is fun. Sometimes it's the top and other times it's the bottom.

>>144169357
Not the biggest fan of Grimgar, but wasn't it made clear from episode 1 that adventuring was the only thing available to them? Doesn't that dude at the counter (don't remember his name) straight up say adventuring is the only course for them?

>>144182623
That's still bullshit. You don't have to go risk your life when you could just as easily farm, forge, fish, and hunt safely off the land. I can understand the maybe picking up adventuring just to get the rest started, but there is no reason to fully commit to it.

>>144178368
The raildex author

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>>144166303

I just want long, FMA:B-tier, properly adapted Nausicaa series.

Even if the MC is feminist Mary-sue ecoterrorist. I just love the setting.

Except for the awful ending. They can change that.

>>144185201
I thought google delivered wrong first time.
I thought Raildex franchise was completed.
What does he do now?

>>144185470
>I thought Raildex franchise was completed.
Last I checked NT was still ongoing though.

>>144185541
Oh, you're right.
Is it any good?
I liked the anime adaptation a lot, but every time I start reading LN - I drop after some time since it's almost fukking 100% close to anime.

>>144182623
>wasn't it made clear from episode 1 that adventuring was the only thing available to them?

No. But to be fair the novels did, they explained how there is just no jobs on the town in general, specially for someone like them that doesn't have a profession so they don't have any other chance.

But the anime skiped that like skiped lof of other dialogue with substantial info. Which wouldn't be a problem if they did something with that time but instead they just put scenery and insert songs. They replaced info with nothingless for the adaptation

>>144185676
Are you trying to read it form the very beginning? because the opening volumes are boring shit mostly. If you are going to read it you should start from the volume after the first anime ended. 13 or 14 or something.

>>144186197
The problem is I didn't exactly watched arc about nuns and glass fleet either: too many pantsu for me.
Thanks for advice, I'll start reading later volumes when raildex comes up in queue.

>>144172914
Kawakami might as well be fucking Japanese Tolkien considering just how fucking thick his goddamned setting encyclopedia is.

>>144167140
Fantasy is about rehashing the same tropes for the billionth time, you don't go read fantasy if you want anything new.

>>144167579
Nah, Lazy King is better than anything /a/ masturbated over in the last ten years and it has skill trees as a setting element.

>>144186889
I'm convinced already.
It's in the queue, in The Queue, anon.

>>144182776
>farming in a border village that's under regular orc attacks
Fucking brilliant. And they'd still earn less than a day of murderhoboing would get them.

>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?

Yes
Anyone with little effort can create better backgrounds for MC other than neet,otaku,etc

Side characters arent much different and plot while challenging can be done well.


Problem is that books require time and effort.

Plot isnt the main point of the book anyways. Its how you execute the storytelling. Greatest plot is nothing in the hands of novice while JRR Martin could do wonders with shitty premise and plot

People give LN writers too much shit about story and characters while not giving them shit about shoddy execution. Making up a story is easy but presenting it well is hard

>>144172375
/a/ complaining about shit they don't know anything about and then acting like the smartest people on earth is nothing new.

World building and engaging plot hooks.

You could always draw from historical events and adapt them to a good story.
Heroic Legend of Arslan is a good example of this.

I'd love to see a series about pre-Silk Road traders from the east trying to travel west into Eastern Europe to trade silk and spices.

>>144179369
Hory Sheit
Muh dick

>>144187167
Then fuck, don't stay at the village constantly being attacked by orcs. Who said you had to settle down there?

>>144187174
>People give LN writers too much shit about story and characters while not giving them shit about shoddy execution. Making up a story is easy but presenting it well is hard

But characters and premise are starting points, I mean even a good premise can be fucked if fails at the execution, yes, but if you from the start work with a bad premise and characters is more hard to execute it well.

Lets say premise and characters are the wood, no matter how good artisan you are with a good wood you can carve better statues than with shitty wood.

Is it just me or are there getting less and less translations for isekei novels? I feel like all the translators have jumped onto the Chinese Xianxia bandwagon.

>>144185676
From where the anime ended to where OT ends is good, NT is hit-or-miss. Kamachi's other works are all better than Index in my opinion anyway.

>>144190586
People got tired of the beta MC type.
Still most of the CN are just as trash quality, just the opposite direction

My favorite read?
Reincarnator. Gotta jump on the Korean train now

>>144166303
>complaining about isekai mmorpg stories

Funny, I just started reading So What If It's An RPG World and it's fucking great.

>>144191800
Korean shit does seem to be like a mix of the features from both the japs and the chinks.

Why do people always assume it's an mmorpg world instead of just an rpg world?

>>144191946
Because literal numbers popping out of peoples head

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I like the Utawarerumono setting, not isekai but futur after apocalypse

>>144182125
I honestly have no problem with competent MCs or ones with good qualities. All of the Isekai MCs are of course self inserts of the otaku who read this garbage.

My main gripe about the Isekai genre is that its main characters are often written directly into the relevant events of the plot, which leaves little room for exploration. It's a genre that should be filled with scenery porn and yet which has none. The main characters should be going out into a whole new world, discovering new landscape and learning new things, but instead they are busy with suffering and drama and waifus and power leveling a solid 90% of the time.

>>144195027
>for me anyway
pssshh

>step one
Don't rip-off Tolkien

There. I just made a fantasy series better than 99.99% of them.

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>>144195330
Now that you mention it that SEEMS to be a problem with shieldbro sometimes.

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MMO themed Isekai is the cancer killing Isekai. Prove me wrong

Pro-tip: You can't

I don't understand the appeal of having a character transfer to a fantasy world instead of just having a fantasy world. Its just an excuse to info dump since that character knows as much about that world as the audience. Its fucking boring

>>144195464
How about MMO themed non-isekai fantasy?

OKAY
LET'S REVERSE IT
MMO MONSTERS ARE SPAWNING IN THE REAL WORLD AND IT'S UP TO THE NEETLORDS TO USE GAME LOGIC TO DEFEAT THEM
THE MC IS AN EX-HOUSEWIFE WHO FOCUSED ON CRAFTING SO SHE'S ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE THAT CAN SUPPLY EFFECTIVE WEAPONS TO THE FIGHTERS BECAUSE MODERN MILITARY EQUIPMENT IS EQUIVALENT TO IRON SWORD (RUSTED) IN-GAME

ALSO, SHE GETS A HAREM OF UNDERAGE BOYS

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>>144166303
Do it like pic related.

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>>144195911
This is a Monty Python reference right?

>>144166303
>Male adventurer dies to demon king and gets resurrected in our world as a highschool girl with a normal mundane life

>GATE but not garbage. Military vs Magic, not just JSDF slaughtering barbarian hordes with harem shit. Genuine battles of squads fighting OP mages using modern tactics and improvising to counter magic

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>>144196775
Why not have GATE but the modern side is from the early 20th centuary?
>You will never defend your airship from raiding Imperial dragon riders.
>Mark IV tanks clashing with giants
>Bayonet fighting Imperial riders.

You know what's boring as fuck? Watching a veteran MMO player on their second character. Just running at top speed from place to place, skipping all the quest text and cutscenes. Like a machine.

The closer an Isekai MMO story is to that, the worse off it is. Seeing some Japanese teenager check their stat sheet every five minutes while grinding isn't interesting. Seeing yet another ubiquitous adventuring guild with letter ranks to faction grind isn't interesting. Wasting an extra paragraph for every transaction to convert the local currency into boring ass yen isn't interesting. This is all boilerplate repetition used as a crutch in place of actual setting building.

The ones that waste as few words as possible on that are better off for it.

>>144197891
You just made me realize how little Isekai stories seem to utilize the whole "holy fucking shit, I'm in an actual fucking fantasy world this is fucking amazing." The tone quickly settles into a status quo that barely even needs the Isekai framing to begin with.

How many good manga do we have that are just "look how amazing this bit our mundane life really is?" There's a number, either using a kid encountering stuff for the first time or people digging into the background of human life that most people end up not engaging in due to their own lives.

You could so easily do a similar set up with a fantasy world, only it'd be a fucking fantasy world on top of that. I suppose it requires more investment in the setting that usual for this kind of stuff.

An overarching plot is useful.
There's too much "I got transported into a fantasy world but the author hasn't thought past there so now I'm going to live a "laidback" lifestyle!'

>>144168069
>Implying Lodoss was any good outside of the gorgeous OVA art stills

It's dog shit and the meta concepts were dropped in your face time and time again, you just didn't recognize them because you were young. None of the story would make remote sense if you didn't see it from a D&D pov.

>>144182083
>Get to last boss
>Roll for shit
>End up having DM play a side character and finish the job for you
>New campaign
>Get to last boss
>Roll for shit
>End up having new player joining in with the lowest stats be the guy who saves the day cause the dice doesn't hate him
>Still end up with the most prestigious award afterwards despite doing nothing but get carried

Parn is literally Donaldo. Win two finals despite doing jack shit and gets all the glory.

>>144195603
You're just brain dead then. Not liking something is not the same as not understanding a different perspective. It just tells everyone you're 2D, right down to your IQ being 2 digits.

>>144195904
Phantasy Star Online 2 the game: episode 4
Real world: check.
MMO monsters coming to it: check.
Central character can pull weapoms out of air: check.
She lives with a shota: chech.

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>>144200000

>>144195330
MT actually did this for quite a while.
And even though I didn't like some things about the series, I thought the exploration/adventure part was done decently. Especially in the begining like when visiting and getting captured in the great forest, visiting different countries, finding about different races etc.

The WN Legend seems to focus on adventures too but I'm not really fond of it so far.

There's no point to fantasy if the MC can just use his broken cheat power to one-shot anything dangerous.
What's the fucking point of having a dragon if it's not dangerous? The MC shouldn't be slaying those niggers, he should be running like a bitch.

>>144166303
You can't self-insert as well in a true fantasy setting.

Also, writing characters interacting is much easier than proper world-building. Even most fantasy novels are shit at world building and just copy Tolkien and D&D. Isekai is a really nice excuse to drop this work and focus on your plot. You view everything through the lens of a Japanese (in most novels), after all.

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>>144179369
I think he released a book on how to draw ass, too bad I can't read nip

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Take any Western fantasy series, and emulate it
or, take any Isekai series and take out the reincarnation/game aspect

>>144169357
>>144169250
>>144169311
I am not even this guy, but posts like these are what exemplifies how retarded /a/ is at critical thinking. Especially in regards to this genre, or plot device, or whatever fits your autistic templates.
Gate has a good setting. It's up to your shitter ass if you think it's a bad story, but the setting is good.
In Gate, Kingdoms aren't just paper castles and village sets strewn about an undisclosed landscape. They are properly designed places, with a real and distinguishable culture beyond what you can take from face value by reading the manga or watching the anime.
Detail is provided for even the most seemingly irrelevant details, like elven culture of learning by copying.
Gate is a prime example of world building.

I'm so sorry that your critical thinking skills haven't developed enough to properly criticize literature without demoting it based on an entirely irrelevant point.

>>144166948
>The Pit world

Anon... I had a vivid dream about a world covered in pits too. There was a labyrinthine network of tunnels that connected them all. I had to go in the tunnels because dead things were swarming into the pits and chasing everyone into the tunnels and killing them.

>>144166303
There's nothing wrong with fantasy setting stuff, the problem is when the writer doesn't out any spin on it.

Successful fantasy world material has something new or fresh, current Isekai things and MMO stories are too frequently stale with nothing special. Look at Re:Zero, it was popular at first, because it used the return by death mechanic every episode. Now he's stayed alive a long time and it's just suffering and drama and a whole lot of stupid MC moments.

Now we look at Overlord, another isekai series which is fairly beloved here. It has a unique take, Momon is the bad guy, he runs a dungeon, he fucks up normal adventurers. At the same time he is also a human somewhere deep inside and worries about what he does and makes mistakes too. This is what is interesting.

Fantasy is the framework, you can import as many or few concepts as you want so long as you have a unique story that hooks the viewer in.

>>144203334
Source on that OP pic?

>>144203518
The hacker 4chan.

>>144166303
The MMO/RPG structure is neat in that its very categorical, which makes everything easier for both the author and the reader. Its also highly familiar, which is where it gets a lot of it's popularity from.

At the same time, its overplayed at this point. Drop that stats entirely, drop the classes(maybe keep vague descriptions; Magic User, dark magic user, swordsman, etc...), drop skills(I get referring to magic with the user of spells, if magic needs to be focused and channeled in very specific ways to achieve effects than I can see a singular generic fireball spell become very prevalent for example). Overall, stop the ridiculously strong desire to categorize everything and square it away.

For example, the terms Longsword, Bastard Sword, Short sword, broad sword, etc are relatively meaningless in a historical sense. None of those names were used to refer to a sword of specific design, weight, balance, or length, historically. That is a relatively new thing. A Knight from a fantasy kingdom would probably not differentiate between a goblin and hobgoblin very much. It would be a bigger goblin to him. End of story. People would not be looking at shit and categorizing it like there was a webster bestiary in every household. "Oh fuck, its a goblin" would be used to refer to all goblins. Oh fuck, its a magic user!" word be used to refer to enemy magic users, maybe replace Magic user with magician, warlock, wizard, devil worshiper, etc. There would not be set names and categories for everything.

>>144197890
Good lord that sounds 10/10.

>>144203391
In my dream Pits have huge horizontal stone steps and general population lived on these steps with only some armed fuckers traveling between them with power jumps.

>>144204040
Like a mining pit?

>>144203617
>A Knight from a fantasy kingdom would probably not differentiate between a goblin and hobgoblin very much. It would be a bigger goblin to him. End of story. People would not be looking at shit and categorizing it like there was a webster bestiary in every household. "Oh fuck, its a goblin" would be used to refer to all goblins. Oh fuck, its a magic user!" word be used to refer to enemy magic users, maybe replace Magic user with magician, warlock, wizard, devil worshiper, etc. There would not be set names and categories for everything.

I was about to agree with everything else, but not this. The point of categorization isn't to give fancy names to different things for the convenience of the reader. It's to identify the situation, in order pick the right methods to deal with it. People who actually encounter threats like goblins or magic-users would be certain to name them in more specific terms than modern people, because the ways you deal with a hobgoblin could be different from how you fight a goblin, and you definitely wouldn't approach a necromancer the same way as a pyromancer, even if you could write them both off as "magic-users". It's supposed to communicate to your allies what to do in a situation where being vague would cost lives. That's the very reason human languages were born in the first place.