Starting with West Germans this time.
Official Schwarzesmarken soundtrack by Roger Waters of Pink Floyd is THE soundtrack, comrades.
He`s now working on his next album about interdimensional matress travel - when he`s not busy calling out the jew.
Also, commissar Gretel and Martin were lucky to attend to the last concert of the Puhdys https://youtu.be/7FCWNS02jP4 [Embed]
But you can't forget the classics(if fucking shlomo didn`t block them where you live)
He's a pretty good looking guy I'll give him that.
Get in line, I suppose?
It hurts, this feel.
It's so hard to watch - she desperately wants love, but she is so caring about everyone that she will sacrifice her own happiness until she has nothing left.
But will someone tell her she too deserves love?
It's interesting, isn't it? She is somewhat like another girl we know, who desired more than anything to be told the same.
>But will someone tell her she too deserves love?
>It's interesting, isn't it? She is somewhat like another girl we know, who desired more than anything to be told the same.
I can't do it, its too cryptic. I can think of at least two girls you might be talking about. And I don't know if she's gonna get romance, but she deserves to live.
The difference between Pham and someone like Sylwia or Lise or even Iris, is Pham isn't broken. She's hurts sometimes, and she's been hurt before, but so far as I know, she's never been emotionally damaged the same way that a lot of the other girls have. She doesn't need Theo to rescue her (except in a very literal sense related to physical survival) and I think, if Pham ever made it out of the DDR alive, She'd find someone special. I could definitely see her falling in love with a hypothetical crew chief of her TSF, and her biggest struggle being working around commissioned/enlisted antifraternization regulations.
I also think she's the one who would be most likely to bang her crew chief, since I think that, given the opportunity, she'd basically adopt her ground crew.
Ah you're right, that's a third then.
I was thinking of Beato actually.
But Pham is broken in her own way, isn't she? Her heart is so big, and her kindness so vast, that she feels she has to shoulder so many burdens. She's very much a self-martyr when it comes to love, kindness, and happiness for all - she is the person who would burn her own life out a thousand times over if it meant putting a smile on people's faces. She, more than many others, understands that the last lights must never die. All the more so in these dark times.
It's why I adore her, why I FEEL her in my very soul. It's because I realize, I have been and will be, what it means to feel this. To try to make everyone's day better, make everyone's hearts whole again - ignoring the cold dead hunger inside, crying desperately for that one thing we all need.
That hunger, it just gets quieter over time. It never really goes away though. It never will.
altered fable sure is fun heh
too bad it stopped just there . oh well
It's what she would want, yes. But I'm not as good as her. Maybe that is also why I adore her. I aspire to be more like her.
But Stella would say otherwise, no?
Who /NVA/ here?
Lise has finally been served her just desserts for all the long-distance running she has put you through. She has shin splints, and some minor bruising on the meniscus on her right knee, though the doctor told her that is nothing to worry about. Still, she has been advised not to run for at least six weeks. Right now, she's pouting about this twist of fate. However, she's pouting with a pair of harbinger fingerless gloves on, and a towel draped over her shoulders. You've decided that it is time to introduce her to the wild and wonderous world of picking up heavy things and then putting them down again, over and over.
"What are those things?"
"Those are kettlebells. You can use them for weighted pull-ups, since they don't flop over when you try and loop the belt chain through them like with normal plates."
"That seems like a pretty pointless and limited use. what are they really for?"
"Getting stupid people to sign up for gym memberships?"
You shrug your shoulders and smile unevenly. You're sure kettlebells have other uses, but god bless you, you can't think of any. Lise points to the row of machines
"What are those for?"
"Those are definitely for getting stupid people to sign up for gym memberships." At least you can be confident on this one.
"So what are you even supposed to do here?"
"I... I'm not going to become one of those freakish looking muscle women, am I?"
"You don't have nearly enough testosterone for that. Those women are roiding."
"...Oh. Maybe I'm not ready for resistance training anyway. Knees and all that."
You grin to yourself, trying to hide from Lise the true nature of the device you are about to inflict on her.
"In that case, why don't you try an ergometer? This is a Concept 2 model C. It's the best cardio ever invented."
"The best? Are you sure?"
"Of Course I'm sure. Why don't you try it? 2000 Meters, maybe?"
Gambatte Lise, you have discovered a different but equally painful world of pain.
COMMUNIST INVADER DETECTED ON AMERICAN SOIL.
Vladimir Sandek is not amused.
Even if she is a secondary Gretel will always be the main heroine of my heart
Well, one of them anyways.
Her and Theo were cute.
>/fit/ weighs in on Schwarzesmarken
I like it!
Also, this would normally be a time for a joke on the steroid taking communist Olympic womens teams!
Which will win? Autismoe, or cloudcuckoolander-moe?
>If I want a mecha game there's always Armored Core.
It isn't a mecha game, it's just a quake3 with mecha skin. Real mecha simulators are very scarce.
>I've got no love for that series. If anything I feel bad for you guys, because no one fucking takes Muv-Luv seriously outside of your faggots.
O.K., 2 deep for u
1. we're not here for the mechas, hell most of us admit they're a dumb weapon in the first place.
2. what do you care if we take it seriously? if anything you're far more pathetic coming over trying to start shit on our little corner of the board for shits and giggles, or worse, cause you think this is a serious matter that needs correcting.
3.Aramored Core WAS good, It began to suck with 4 and only continued sucking with For Answer, 5 and Verdict Day
Silent Line a best! A BEST!!
>But they're fun
Yamato damashii is not fun after some time.
>and isn't that what really matters?
Not really. Sometimes you just want to watch a soviet tank battalion on a meeting engagement.
Something which we have never seen.
That is a nice chart. Though it's still funny how only Japan manages to get aircraft it never had historically or based on a real world craft.
I like to hope Koukhi will basically say at some point tons more countries had their own aircraft/TSF programs that bore out in this world as opposed to our own.
>Look in corner
To be fair,
it's like watching his sister grope his sister.
Gommies are dead and over with, don't you know? Turns out, their cultural marxism was what posed a longer term existential threat to us, not their brainless states backed by their supposedly mighty military machines.
A quick thought, since a TSF design of the J-XX is already drawn now, and adaptation of the Shinshin is confirmed as a TSF too, how long until Cookie decides to draw the AMCA? Then again, I suppose he may have to draw the PAK-FA first, though it doesn't seem the Su-47 was only a demonstrator in the MLverse.
So Kyoko rapresent Kawasaki in the big 5 shogunate family?
He is always there lately. Check Latrova's handbag.
No, senseis taste the best!
Don't worry Anon, I'm sure they fought like lions and the less of the retarded ML politics we get the better.
How do you like your Mabu Rabus? Bloodier than this? or less?
Type-00 Takemikazuchi is the best TSF there is, no substitutions, arguments, or debates.
They're definitely cheaper at their events, but you can still pick them up elsewhere. It's not like the figs aren't for specialty events either:
Do you want to talk about how it would be a great idea to extend then intial first line of defence which is 80 kilometers away from the oder-nesser line and consist of landmines to 160 kilometers and have 3 mobile divisional battle groups (2 tank divisions and 1 motorised rifle division with 5 times the normal amount of ATGM and anti tank guns.) and have these fight inside the former polish territory to slow down and wear down the BETA attack groups before they reach the first line of defence?
You may wonder how these divisions would be supplied and the answer is simple, Mi-6/A HOOK heavy duty transport helicopters with Mi-17/HIP H medium transport helicpters and several forward operatin bases located in good positions that are easy to defend and is not in the way of the BETA main attack route.
You can also have TSF squadrons support these divisions with the help of Attack helicopter regiments for maximum combined arms warfare.
What/who could make adult Beatrix pout like pic related?
She shouldn't sweep her sidebangs behind her ears. It doesn't really suit her, even if she does have a very lickable nape
I think that a joint Czechoslovakian-East German-Polish defence line at the Vistula and San rivers would have been preferable, had it been build before the fall of Poland, since its only 50% or so longer and could have pooled the resources of three countries instead of each Pact Nation trying to hold alone. Hell, holding Silesia by using the upper Oder as well, could have worked better than the original, since it shortens the line overall and gives both the CSSR and the DDR some defence in depth, even if only along a part of the front.
If Jürgen's dead, nothing. Except perhaps a replacement.
So if Juergen was the Char of Muv-Luv, does that make Beatrix the Haman?
Vistula and san rivers are good locations but sadly it was not built before the fall.
And your example of the holding silesia is also pretty good. It may also give more morale to the troops since they are fighting with another warsaw pact nation whom still exists instead of being alone on their own frontline.
But better defensive fortifications wont on the long run hold it without a offensive manouvers. But it would greatly benefit the situation in europe.
You and Lise are in the back of the gym, having a race to see who can row 2000m the fastest. You already showed Lise the basics of using a rowing machine, that is, Legs, Back, Arms, then Arms, Back, Legs. It's pretty simple once you get the hang of it. You settle into a rhythm, start counting your strokes, and tune out the world around you. Lise is not so similarly inclined. She's wailing away on the machine, which is set to maximum resistance. Her eyes are locked in rapt attention on the behind of some cardio bunny who is using a stairmaster several rows in front of you. Luckily for you, all of this stimulation does not translate itself to good rowing form, and she's using her legs, arms and back to pull the chain all at once, instead of isolating the three groups. Her rowing is erratic, and her breathing doesn't seem to line up with anything particular position of her body.
As you notch 2000m, Lise is still barely at 900m. You cover your mouth to suppress a grin.
Lise looks up at you, exhausted. You put your hand on your shoulder. "We still need to work on your form."
She nods, and gets up from the ergometer. That can come later. For now, you head to your respective locker rooms, then drop into the hot tub for a nice relaxing warm-down.
So much about what could have been, and not about what really happened. Its sad, but competent planning is a rarity in ML in general.
But then again, the focus was usually on the characters and not the plot. Which is one of the weaknesses of SM, it tries to focus on the plot as well. But in order for everything to play out the way it did, almost everyone must have taken the worst option possible.
But the plot is somewhat hard to swallow. A single speech by the daughter of a Unperson brings down the Wall, a State Security apparatus that's basically feral and is composed of stupidly evil personnel and is incapable of doing its actual job, etc.
The characters are fine, but what's happening seems to overshadow them enough to make Watanabe give us his take on the whole matter.
Still enjoyed it though and looking forward to the translation of the LNs and VNs, but there are parts where you just have to enjoy it without thinking too hard.
I see she still has a few insecurities to iron out. Hope the bunny made it out of the locker room with all her teeth still in her skull.
The shitty part is that Hiroki should know better since he's a huge history nerd. The stasi really do bring down the whole narrative and turn it into a farce though. How an organization composed almost entirely of reckless psycopaths who must hurt others and don't even bother to hide shit like death/concentration camps for undesirables (in post-WWII communist Germany of all things) attained such power despite acting outside of the state in the face of much more pragmatic organizations is difficult to swallow, nor why 1/5 of the population would even want to help or inform for them.
But lets assume that we are forced to start from the current oder-nesser line and that there is no joint defensive line with the czech em's.
My plan should be possible and workable.
You could have two major mine lines, one which is 80 kilometers away from the line and then another one at 160 kilometers.
If a mine free land route is wanted into poland then it could be placed on the upper part of the oder-nesser line. If the BETA try to go there then East German Navy would be able to pound them.
History nerd does not really equal to understanding why history went X instead of Y or Z.
He may like reading history and think it is cool but if he understands why things happend is another thing.
Woah, she is really pissed. She should drink some tea.
Retarded evil villains aren't always bad and can be a lot of fun, but characters like Beatrix really do clash with the overall tone of SM. SM takes itself too seriously to have over the top evil caricatures. It's why characters like pic related may be great in Hellsing, but absolutely ridiculous in something like a Miyazaki film.
>A single speech by the daughter of a Unperson brings down the Wall
ever hear of the expression "the straw that broke the camel's back"
>a State Security apparatus that's basically feral and is composed of stupidly evil personnel and is incapable of doing its actual job
This is mostly the fault of the anime, where the Stasi are nothing more than moustache-twirlling cartoon villains. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that the VN/LN Stasi aren't evil, but most of the incompetence stems from the butchering done by the anime, which they don't care to try and make it a legit adaptation since they're using it as a marketing tool to bring in secondaries into the fold, so they can sell them the VN/LN as well as figmas and all other sorts of crap that fools with too much money and no impulse control will happily pay for.
>looking forward to the translation of the LNs and VNs, but there are parts where you just have to enjoy it without thinking too hard.
Par for the course with Muv Luv in general. There's a lot of shit you're just better off ignoring.
I wish. We're getting Kotobukiya and that's about it. I really hope they decide to come out with a Lise nendoroid, though, it would be amazing.
I am not saying that its not possible, defence in depth is preferable to that rigid line they have, so many lives wasted in the trenches, when they could be better used.
Right on the money.
There are many reasons why Beatofags like me exist anon. And one of them is the opinion that she is not, or at least wasn't meant to be the non plus ultra evil sadist and mass murderer some believe her to be. Not saying she isn't evil though.
>ever hear of the expression "the straw that broke the camel's back"
I have. I doubt that a single speech could do that in a totalitarian dictatorship, under the conditions shown in story. The wall fell in RL do to a speech. But only because of many, many factors paving the way.
It would be a waste of a design perfectly made for a nendoroid if they didn't.
I am not a fan of Tamura's voice, its usually too squeaky for my taste. And no matter how hot, at some point your morals kick in. But that's just me, and you have to remember, there were Beatofags long before Tamura voiced her.
It is. http://www.age-soft.co.jp/Product/sm/wac/index.htm?process=7&escurl=../character10_esc.html
And one of the anime's flaws is that it toned down that charm she is supposed to have. But well, its too late now, and we still have the VN.
Yeah, I don't think she got as into her role as she did for the VN.
Too rough, not enough elegance or smoothness in the anime's take.
Yukarin has a great voice, and obviously people are more tolerant of Beatrix than if she looked like Danny DeVito, but part of the appeal of Beatofaggotry is that she's a lonely, heartbroken girl trapped in a vicious cycle of escalating violence that she can occasionally steer but is unable to stop, and you just want to steal her away from the nightmare she's trapped in.
I'm actually a Lisefag, btw
Yuimouto is love
Yuimouto is life
I noticed Lise seemed to have a deeper voice too. Not sure the reason but they made her more mature in looks and voice.
>she's a lonely, heartbroken girl trapped in a vicious cycle of escalating violence that she can occasionally steer but is unable to stop, and you just want to steal her away from the nightmare she's trapped in.
Theres a reason they say Beato and Lisefags are in bed together.
The purer something is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
>Theres a reason they say Beato and Lisefags are in bed together.
Someone said last thread that if she let all the pain she went through change her into a monster, then she deserved all that pain.
Yeah. That seems to be her role. Beatrix is a prime example that beauty is only skin deep. She's largely acknowledged as the hottest girl in and out of story, but is extremely ugly on the inside (I guess that's where the Wearwolf name comes from).
Give me someone like Katia or Iris, who may not be as physically attractive, but have beautiful personalities.
I'm actually europoor
Beatrix didn't become bitch after Jurgen death.
It was the trigger,but she did it by herself.
>inb4 she saved girls for PTSD battalion
All she needed were loyal subordinates, she didn't care about them all
Beatrix was always evil. She was born fucked up, and I think that if it wasn't Jurgen and the stasi, it would have been something else that would have made her snap and become a serial killer. I don't think Beatrix is really capable of love or true empathy, even for people she thinks she loves like Jurgen.
Lise went through far, far worse than her but still managed to hold onto a shred of decency while Beatrix fully embraced evil. I think that how she behaves in SM is who she truly is.
Yeah, she's an absolute cunt. Nothing really that tragic about her in my opinion. Her death was a good thing and it was extremely cathartic seeing it happen.
>Sorry, but after reading all of SM and BiS I still found her to be a bad human being.
If you can read Jap, the you can enlighten us here with proper evidence to back you up.
Same goes for you, chap.
That's exactly what I said
When you say you've read all there is, it's obvious I mean all that's available
Her cute self in her teenage years doesn't erase everything she will do in the future sadly
>No. Iris bro didn't like the DDR and she's mad butthurt over Iri existing and being better at being a pilot Basically Beatrix is a shit human being all around, and that's before we get into the torture porn
>No, she's just butthurt her brother was a revolutionist and swim with sharks you're a shark thought processs
>Is that anything new at all? She's a gloryhound who wants to exterminate all the possible GDR defectors from the DDR, she literally killed MCs family as far as he's concerned being a STASI cunt, Axmann
>She's a rappist who fucked Pham and Sylwia and wants to fuck Katia too.
>Her cute self in her teenage years doesn't erase everything she will do in the future sadly
No, it just means SM is badly written and that Hiroki is a hack. Esdese's backstory was much more believable for a budding psycho than Beatrix's. Trying to make Beatrix sympathetic/waifuable is stupid and goes against the whole point of her character.
>When you say you've read all there is, it's obvious I mean all that's available
No, That is specifically not what you said, and it is not something that could be reasonably inferred from the context because it directly contradicts what you said before. You've been caught in a lie.
>Sorry, but after reading all of SM and BiS I still found her to be a bad human being.
Wasn't she going to have Katia raped in the VNs, then try to kill Theo, Pham, and the rest when it didn't go through?
How about sabatoging the NVA to produce more casualties to make her rescue look better, or not helping Kurt's unit hold the last fort before Berlin despite having a unit of TSFs dedicated to keeping the 666th from saving Katia?
You are a liar who cannot keep his story strait. You clearly intended to argue from a point of authority, but were not familiar enough with the subject material to be convincing.
Buddy, don't ask me, I'm the one asking for proof for all claims made. You lot, meaning the fanatical Beatrix haters, rarely come with any evidence beyond your own interpretations of widely known, but necessarily seen events. If you can deliver evidence please do, it would finally kill this endlessly repeating clusterfuck that is the debate on Beatrix's nature.
>Wasn't she going to have Katia raped in the VNs
No evidence to suggest it but her Werewolf battalion being in the area probably means that lead-belly in Neuenhagen was keeping an eye on her for Beato
>How about sabotaging the NVA to produce more casualties to make her rescue look better
Yes that was during the Maelstrom but it wasn't stated that it was her original plan but she went along with it since it advanced her goals
The Nuremberg defense isn't a suitable defense in court though
>not helping Kurt's unit hold the last fort before Berlin despite having a unit of TSFs dedicated to keeping the 666th from saving Katia
Yup she prioritized capturing Katia right after Theo and Annette got her out of the fort
Whatever you say Beatofag
Wording it like that makes it sound like she was based off his daughter. Perhaps its the way Hiroki describes Beatrix that makes him sound affectionate towards her. If there had been a clear vision of her character between every source she appears in (LN/BiS/anime) then a lot of this back and forth could be avoided.
Speaking of fathers I can't help but imagine what it would be like to be Mr. Hohenstein. I hope his death was quick, I don't want to think of what it would be like to know my daughter went through what Lise did after she was captured.
Wasn't her plan largely pointless too? It's not like Europe needed East Germany to sacrifice itself to evacuate. They did just fine getting everyone, even the East Germans, out of Europe. So really, all the death and evil she unleashed didn't serve a purpose. She can't even claim to be a greater good utilitarian like Yuuko and is in the end just another tinpot dictator wannabe.
This implies hindsight anon, we can't assume she knew everything we know, even if her plan was ultimately useless.
Using them as cannon fodder and whoring them out and breaking them, differ quite a bit, even if I think I can follow your argument, that in the end they end being someone's expendable tools.
The delight she takes in their suffering would say otherwise. It wouldn't surprise me if she had a system going on with Axmann where she provides him with people, he has his fun, then he gives the broken people back to her for her to play with.
This is where "whats and ifs" start getting thrown around but I'm on the side that her plan was ultimately pointless and optimistic
It's not that East Germany had to sacrifice itself for the sake of the evacuation, it was that she was trying to set an example to the UN and other nations that a country ruled by might and fear would do better militarily against the BETA.
In doing so she hoped other countries would adopt the same form of iron rule and then the supposed increase in military performance against the BETA would save the planet.
But I think her plan was far-fetched and that no other major nation would follow her example
No matter how much I dislike her I find it hard to believe that she would condone something like that
But under her policy of iron rule by the Stasi I imagine she would give in to reason and accept that said practice would continue no matter what she did.
Please don't use the anime Beato as a reference
They still are enemies and she hates how Axemann does his job
No matter how much I don't like her the anime ver is off the charts
An idiot could see that her plan wasn't going to work. That a 15 year old girl could figure out how to have her cake and eat it too tells me that either Beatrix was either malicious or a retard.
>This is where "whats and ifs" start getting thrown around but I'm on the side that her plan was ultimately pointless and optimistic
>It's not that East Germany had to sacrifice itself for the sake of the evacuation, it was that she was trying to set an example to the UN and other nations that a country ruled by might and fear would do better militarily against the BETA.
>In doing so she hoped other countries would adopt the same form of iron rule and then the supposed increase in military performance against the BETA would save the planet.
>But I think her plan was far-fetched and that no other major nation would follow her example
That's even more retarded. So she was advocating for global fascism and the destruction of everything good in the world. This right here is why she's worse than Axmann. It's like comparing someone like Pol Pot to the BTK murderer. I don't know how anyone could love her. As vindictive as it is, I'm glad she lost Jurgen; she never deserved to be happy.
I can't help but wonder what happened to them, if Theo was the first to break, and Lise was the last, it's implied that the others survived as well. Maybe he and his wife spent the next 5 years putting together tank transmissions in a prison factory or something. (The Nazis actually did this. It was a really dumb idea. Something like half of all Panthers were deliberately sabotaged in one way or another)
If that's the case, It's probably that he has no idea what happened to her. The next time he'd hear anything about her is when he sees the picture from operation Neptune, which would at least give him the totally wrong impression that everything is OK.
>No matter how much I don't like her the anime ver is off the charts
What don't you like about the anime version compared to the LN. I hear that the anime version is actually nicer in some respects (like not torturing Iris).
Her whole demeanor is just more sadistic/cruel and especially noticeable in her interactions with her subordinates
I guess what set the tone was how in the first episode she executed civilians with a grin which is not something I imagined her doing anytime before the rebellion and how she seemed in cahoots with Axemann
But the Beatohaters usually come out of the woodwork when most Murrilards are asleep. Americans on here at least like Beato, and some waifu her hard.
So it's either some random Asian punk, a Europoor, or one of the few Mericans holding the night watch.
>She's largely acknowledged as the hottest girl in and out of story, but is extremely ugly on the inside
Yeah. By you giant flaming faggot. Now shut it with your fucking attempted meme already.
Why are Katiafags such terrible human beings?
Hmmm, seeing you two in fight, is kind of fun, but ultimately, there is a great flaw in >>141658003 's argument. Fascism or whatever you consider to be the most evil thing in the world is preferable to extinction. And even if Beatrix was a dumb, delusional, evil bitch had her plan delivered better results it would have been preferable in those circumstances. And its very hard to believe that among tens of millions, no, hundreds of millions, one naïve fifteen year old was the only one to think up of unifying Germany and evacuating its population.
You know how Germany or Japan weren't going to surrender to the Allies despite losing bad; change the surrender to evacuate and the Allies to BETA. Selfish leaders will sacrifice millions if it allows them to stay in power for just a few more days.
The anime seems to just be a concentrated take on her. You said yourself that she's your most hated person in SM. So what they brushed off some of her more extraneous characteristics; her cruelty and sadism are the core of her character and they are what defines her.
>Fascism or whatever you consider to be the most evil thing in the world is preferable to extinction
You're thinking like that because you're imaging it from a position of power
You didn't live in the Stasi controlled DDR of their universe and clearly those civilians didn't want to either.
Now imagine if currently free people suddenly had their rights taken away by a secret police and overbearing government.
It wouldn't work out either here or there, extinction or no extinction.
After all as the saying goes, better dead than red.
Hitler wanted Germany to fight on until it was totally destroyed. So did the Japanese nationalist. It was only after Hitler died and that the Emperor spoke out against the military junta that surrender was acheived.
I imagine he is talking about how military leaders were trying to keep japan in the war once the emperor had decided to surrender already
>Why are Katiafags such terrible human beings?
Why do Beatrixfags support such a terrible human being? Besides, Katia deserves to be loved. Unlike the others, she doesn't have the shield they have to ward off the horrors of East Germany.
If Katia was the one carrying out Beato's plan
I wonder if I'd support her
In her younger days yes, but she changed it around that if they were going to use her she'd use them instead.
So she's using what she hated/hates as a tool now to achieve her plan.
It's this one very vocal guy, yes (or as he's known, Eugenicsfag, because he apparently seems to believe Beatrix was born evil and should have been snuffed out in her cradle), or two guys, one saying she should have been killed as a baby, and one droning on and on about how she's the prime example of beauty is only skin deep, yada yada.
During Europoor time, it's more the atmosphere just seems to be oppressive against Beatofags. If said faggot above stays up during that time, he gets a much more rapt audience, sadly. Though to their credit, not always.
And now we're moving into imagining cruel things about someone solely because you hate them.
Congratulations faggot, you are now like what you imagine Beatrix to be. I hope you feel proud of yourself.
Hiroki seems to really hate Muv-Luv. Everything in SM seems to be a dark parody of ML.
Beatrix is totally wrong on everything. Like nothing she does or thinks is right, and her whole ideal that sometimes what is moral isn't always the best choice and that progress requires sacrifice is shown to be a sham. Meanwhile, Katia's naive idealism is shown to be the correct path, as it saves the most people and leads to the happiest possible ending. This is contrasted against Yuuko's pragmatism or the Valkyries who believe heavily in "making your death count".
True love is also shown very negatively. Lise and Beatrix experience true love in the way that Sumika or Meiya have and are worst people for it. Someone like Gretel, however, who doesn't devote herself totally to Martin and has a much more down to Earth romance with him (so much so that most people don't even know that they're in a relationship) is shown to be the better path. Furthermore, the main heroine and the character held up as the example for the rest, Irisdina, doesn't believe in that sort of foolish romance and put the MC at arms distance. She doesn't even give him a kiss when he tells her how much he loves her in the finale.
She was looking for info on her family, actually.
You know, for a beacon of hope shining out into the darkness, that girl is not very bright.
>Fascism or whatever you consider to be the most evil thing in the world is preferable to extinction
This is premised on the assumption that the Beatoplan was the only alternative to extinction, or at least offered a better chance of avoiding extinction than any other option. That NOT being the case, this point is (arguably) correct, but irrelevant.
Also, all the hindsight criticisms thrown at critiques of Beatrix's plan are all equally applicable to her plan itself. At the time and from our detached viewpoint, there is certainly not a preponderance of evidence saying it would have achieved optimal or even mostly positive results.
>better dead than red.
Even reds think they're better off dead.
Exactly. Her plan was stupid and she was a terrible fucking human being. Theo killing her was probably one of the best things that he could have done for Europe and the world. I have absolutely no sympathy for her, and no cute prequel shit is going to change my opinion on her.
>Americans on here at least like Beato, and some waifu her hard.
No they don't. Most of them are Katia or Gretelfags. If you want to look at the normal quality of the American anime community, just take a visit over to MAL.
Her adoptive parents in West Germany died.
With no more living relatives she joined the Bundeswehr and eventually defected to East Germany to find her real father and what became of him since she didn't know what became of him after he left her in the west.
She always held the belief that unity was better thanks to her father's ideals but unity became a feasible priority once Iris gave her the chance later on during the beginning of the rebellion.
That don't make less of an idiot
>let's get involved in a revolution and promise complete political reforms in a country that I don't know shit about it and I was only there for 3 months
I've got no love for this series. If anything I feel bad for you guys, because no one fucking takes Muv-Luv seriously outside of your faggots.
If I want a mecha game there's always Armored Core.
>I guess what set the tone was how in the first episode she executed civilians with a grin which is not something I imagined her doing anytime before the rebellion
But you can imagine her taking delight in murdering scores of people, can't you, because unlike Schmidt or Axmann, she's not just using evil as a vehicle for her plans, she's doing evil because she gets a thrill from it.
Nice samefagging, at least have the balls of calling him out as yourself instead of pretending to be someone else.
Then again, with that childish logic you're using in the original post, I guess this is to be expected of you.
>she's a lonely, heartbroken girl trapped in a...
The problem here is that the appeal is not of a lonely, heartbroken person; it wouldn't work with a male character under almost any circumstances. In short, it IS an appeal other than 'SHE'S HOT!', but it's still built on her sex appeal.
The Byronic Hero is a thing, but he is usually quite a bit more ambiguous than Beatrix is, along with a host of other differences (much less certainty, for example).
It think the problem is that the setting was never really all that important to the original trilogy, because Alternative never was a war story. The BETA needed to be there, but they and the rest of the world were designed to suit the narrative. This works fine in the limited scope of the original trilogy, but as a result it starts to look silly when under a more martial light.
Katia was given a spotlight, the anime never touched upon it and it was in passed over very very quickly in the LN/VN
Not only is the Stasi in SM retarded evil, it is also very big and far reaching compared to their real life versions
That doesn't contradict anything I said, though. There is a sexual aspect, it just goes far beyond skin deep (I actually prefer Iris purely for looks. She's just not as compelling as the Stasi girls past that) I'm heterosexual, so this is something that only applies to women. If I was Alex Edel, maybe I'd be more attracted to the same qualities in a big, burly Stasi bear. It would still be pretty compelling.
They should have gone with the original academy idea rather than the grim/dark war story.
>It would still be pretty compelling.
Probably, but I question whether it would motivate people to go to the lengths they do to justify her actions. This character might be compelling, but still unquestionably bad (in some way, shape, or form).
Considering that she's responsible for torturing and killing or trying to kill the majority of everyone else's waifus, I'd say that it still stands. Sylwiafags, Katiafags, Gretelfags, Irisfags, and so forth can't stand her. The only ones who seem to like her are the Lisefags and that one weird Phamfag.
Because she wasn't the light, duh.
You know who it was.
Look, just ignore it. He is never, ever, going to stop shitting his stupid opinion on here, the best you can do is just ignore and move on.
My personal belief is that 99% of people are good, 99% of the time, even the sadists, even the sociopaths. Whenever that balance changes even slightly, terrible things happen, such as the cultural revolution in China or the mass killings behind lines on the Eastern Front. The Holocaust demonstrates this pretty well. They had to move to a death camp system because the killing squads were suffering a collapse of morale, and the individual actors were all insulated either from the ability to make any decisions that didn't result in their own deaths, or in the case of the officers, from the consequences of their decisions. The reason Mengele did so much of the sorting during the liquidation of Hungary's Jews is that he was reportedly the only person that could do that job sober. By comparison, Eichmann and Heydrich were almost completely insulated from the consequences of their own actions, and Hoess was a nutter who grew up talking to his pet horse.
In the long term, any other balance is essentially impossible for human civilization to function in the long term. So for me, it's less about excusing Beatrix's crimes than it is about the idea of taking a character I find fascinating and appealing, and removing her from a situation where she has to make these decisions. That's nice to think about.
As for the decisions she makes, I think she's caught in a number of traps. First of all, with each atrocity she commits, further atrocities seem more permissible by comparison. Second of all, though by now it's twisted beyond all recognition, she's serious about trying to live up to Jurgen's ideal, it's just that the path which gives her the most opportunity and influence to do good is also the one that requires her to do the most evil. Her plan is brutal and unworkable, but she's falling back on the only things that have been successful for her. That is ultimately what makes her a tragic and appealing character.
>Your mother and I have decided, we're hopping the wall. Go tell your brother, we leave tomorrow night.
>That sounds dangerous
>It is. Don't bother packing, we can't afford to be slowed down.
>If this is about the drama club being shut down, its okay, really, I can just find a new hobby..
>Absolutely unacceptable, you and I are artists Lise, and we can't flourish in this stifling environment. I need my creative space.
>This doesn't seem worth it
>You'll understand when we reach the other side.
>But most people don't make it over the wall, and with the recent crackdown since..
>Nonsense, we'll be fine. What could possibly go wrong.
Don't forget that SM is the first to have openly evil villains who know they're evil and enjoy it. Most of the badguys in the previous MLs have been merely misguided or at least well intentioned. I think the lack of humanism that Kouki injects into his stories is really what older ML fans dislike about SM. In Kouki's works, people feel human for the most part, and even the bad ones are easy to empathize with.
I kind of liked letting Mr. Hohenstein squirm a little bit when he found out what happened to his daughter in the mattress story. Not too much, though, he was trying to do the right thing, after all.
Ah, shouldn't he be proud? Both Lise and Theo made some good art after all.
I'm sure Axmann certainly thinks so.
About to start the JFK hive and hibiki can't stop wondering who the fuck was the pilot of that of black takemi
>What is Beatrix's charm point, anyways?
Her hair antennas.
Nope, Lise had no friends and/or lesbian lovers in the anime. Martyrs will no doubt have her pop up.
You didn't know? I guess it gets lost in all the shitposting from that monster Katiafag, but Beatrix I'd someone who desperately wants to do the right thing. She never wanted this life. She hates what the country did to her and everyone else, and she knows she's going to hell. The only reason she didn't kill herself after Jurgen was purged was his last recording to her, begging her to live and fight for a future for them, and for mankind.
Why do the normies seem to love Iris so much, especially considering that most of them only know the inferior anime version? She's as far from interesting as possible.
They seem almost gleeful with some of the other girl's deaths, but touch their waifu and they're beyond pissed.
>"Your decision may not have been the "good" choice, but it was the correct choice. History progresses on the sacrifices of people, does it not?"
She's a German Yuuko/Sumika hybrid; of course she's going to have questionable ethics.
Come on, you haven't even seen the best part.
If you don't understand, you just don't understand. That or you're an animeonly.
>>141669979 had it right. People who like her see the chain of events that led to what she is. At most, her death isn't something to be triumphant about.
As for moving on, that is absurd. No one fucking did. There was no happiness in the end. And it was all for naught, because Germany fell soon after.
Theo, Gretel, Katia and Anette, they're extremely likely by the end just broken shells of human beings on the windswept shores of Albion.
Not him but I'd sooner trust the opinions of the guys who have read the source material over those who haven't. Either way it doesn't really matter until its translated. Japan has the books, VN, and the show(which doesn't even matter to them) and the western audience has just the show aside from the few who can read jap. Theres more to these characters than what the adaption has shown that much is clear.
Why is it so satisfying when good opinions get repeating digits?
Did anyone mention patricians or proles, you cancerous /mu/ fuck?
Your desperation to keep your worldview and morality system intact is what's pathetic at this point.
It's kind of funny, but more Japs side with Beatrix and her plan then against it, so clearly, her plan isn't as retarded as the anime makes it out to be:
Three sixes too, fitting considering the discussed material. That or simply Satan approves.
>trusting jap tastes
The Muv-Luv fandom is one of the most internationally consistent in matters of taste and opinion.
If they who have access to all the information claim that Beatrix had a point, then its most likely so.
9000 hours in MS Paint says "yes"
Lise is always cute.
>Reminder this scene is coming up soon in Martyrs
Depends on the glasses
This is like...Aunt Lise, in the far future.
Of course she'd still be a midget.
It works in a weird way. Kind of like how she's able to pull off oppai somewhat-loli. She's in some weird inbetween zone.
>Takeru bullying Meiya, Mikoto and Tama with the new OS
Yeah yeah, the fucker knew their plan, but now I want to see what he is going to do when something unexpected happens.
How does so a big guy have such a little girl?
Is it just me or I got the stereotypical accent of one of those American "Old South aristocrats"? Must be the WEEEEELLLL
Speaking of, this was in some Muv Luv right? What was Jack Bauer doing in the game?
Altered fable adds even more parody, and there is a subplot explaining why suddenly Radhabinod is the director and why they suddenly get a lot of foreign teachers and it supposedly involves espionage. Or so I've heard.
speaking of altered fable i found it weird they to put a whole text saying that it isn't a sequel of alternative
>before the shimmering time Ends
what does it mean?
All things considered, what would Jack Bauer be like in Muv Luv?
Imagine the terrorism troubles America has in this world.
>what does it mean?
It means it that it will end ,that shimmering time and it will go on forever
CTU having TSFs huh?
This...would be neat. A little over the top, but neat. Upgraded F-4s or F-5s?
That and I guess F-5s were both in ML and irl to be the "cheaper, more numerous" end of the HiLo mix.
Though in 24, to be honest, Jack does most of the CQC. So upgraded F-5s then? Maybe, dare I say it, F-20s?
I just realized another reason Jack is perfect for ML.
He's a hero who is constantly punished, the few things dear in his life stripped away one by one.
>He's a hero who is constantly punished, the few things dear in his life stripped away one by one.
>Sole Survivor feels.
His ending was bittersweet. Sure he lost Iris, but at the same time, he managed to kill Beatrix, save East Germany and Katia from her fascist dreams, and destroy the organization that had been fucking with him for nearly his whole life.
Schwarzesmarken tells a fast-paced yet vile story about our inability to work with each other. It is a fine plot for those who don't try to poke holes at it, but unfortunately for me poking around is what I like doing. If you really dig into it, this story is chuck full of inconsistencies, miracles, and improbable circumstances; unfortunately, many of these surface too late in the show to divulge in this review.
The story follows one central plotline that pivots wildly between various events; you really are just along for the ride. Many of the show's twists are predictable, some are along the lines of things you don't want to be true but know will be true... The show builds to a final, mech battle climax that is a bit of a letdown given the falling action. This is followed by a fair conclusion that ties up loose ends fairly well. I still can't get over the fact that, despite having advanced mech technology, they don't try at all to save their injured.
If you're looking for a thriller with lots of last second saves and plenty of action, this is your kind of story. If you're looking for thought-provoking political dialogue or any real depth to the almost universal mech question of "why are we fighting", you won't find it here. The disposability of the famous "Schwarzesmarken" team members really leaves a sour aftertaste for me.
This is kind of a mess. There are many issues in this section that would negatively affect the characters. First, the huge breadth of primary and supporting characters makes it difficult for the viewer to relate to everyone. Second, despite the incredibly important nature of Katia to the story's plot, she gets relatively little development- often just shoved aside by Lise. Which brings up number three, Lise is just an unnecessary distraction that ends in exactly how one would predict. Finally, fifth, Beatrix and Axmann are abhorrent cookie-cutter villains with no depth.
Why does everyone always complain about Axmann/Beatrix? I find them fine for the role they fulfill. They're a disagreeable, evil bunch of people who you want to see gutted by Theo.
Because the half-assed adaptation delivers inconsistent and to over the top villains that cheapen the story. And this isn't counting all the complaints about you get from the LN/VN readers.
I think that's my biggest problem with the stasi characters. Someone like Axmann is fine. He's a fun and interesting villain. Unlike with Axmann, with Beatrix and Lise it seems like the anime can't decide what it wants to do, so those two end up being very muddled and confusing characters.
Over the top also doesn't work well with SM considering how everything else feels kind of understated.
So the rumor floating around the Jap community right now seems to be:
>The second game will be released this summer!
I wonder how correct this is. They've been right many times before (like knowing ahead of time who the voice actors were going to be), but I haven't heard age say anything yet. Then again, they do seem to be ratcheting up their marketing efforts for Martyrs and have even updated their SM VN page and released a few WiP CGs.
Which SM characters have their birthdays in the next pair of months apart from Lise? The release day could be one of them, since they pulled that with Beatrix last year for the first one.
Well the whole story could be resumed as two dumb, butt hurt girls, who could have achieved their goals with a fraction of the dead, in a shorter time, put their rivalry first and are ultimately unsuccessful at what they intended to do. Only one of them enabled a third ones goals and the other one's efforts were completely wasted.
Schwarzesmarken is the best Muv-luv spinoff. It's got the best story, characters, and girls. And it actually feels like Muv-luv as opposed to the embarrassment that was Total Eclipse.
So 2ch has been confirmed for browsing, linking, and cross boarding with us. How does that make you guys feel?
That'd be nice if it came out that soon
and a good sign for Lisebut this place is gonna get wrecked when Martyrs is released. Spoilers, rumors, snapshots, panic, and the english version for it would be at least a year away.
I'm going to spam the penetration scene when it comes out.
I welcome the chaos, I want to be free of the eternal "debate" with both the kneejerk morality fags and the blind haters, there are a few who are alright but six months of this tires one out. Even if we Beatofags are wrong, at least Lisefags will finally gain some respite in the West, since you guys actually got it worse. we lot knew what we were going to get, long before that first episode.
Have fun lad.
Well sir while I may not agree with your behavior, I can thank you for posting the higher res picture. I don't even know why I still have the other one saved, guess I like grain.
But thats the thing, Martyrs being released in japan probably won't end the "eternal debate" because both the first VN and the source material are already out, but not translated, and look where thats got us.
To be fair, the Japs still argue over who is right. Just look at >>141673055
Beatrix being a depraved rapist torturer hedonist has been a meme in the Western community for the past 4 years. It's not going away anytime soon.
But it will deliver the final take, so to speak, on how the characters are and what they believe. Thus helping add new facts to the debate, in one direction or other. And a VN is far more accessible to non jap readers than the LN.
But even the most adamant Beatrix haters in japan don't exhibit the vitriol and raw hate some in the west, and at least one guy in this threads do.
But isn't it a good thing that who is right can be argued, thats what makes the whole thing interesting.