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Thread images: 38
THE SWORDSMAN VERSUS THE SWORDS OF MAN
WHO WILL EMERGE VICTORIOUS FROM THIS BATTLE
THE MEMEBRINGER?
OR THE MEMEMAKER?
http://spinybackwebdesign.com/baki-dou-chapter-83/
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Mustashi is confused by a man gripping his shaft
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aaaaaaaaand it's gone
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In this moment, Musashi was euphoric. He had achieved Nirvana.He does actually say something weird about Japanese Buddhist nirvana in the raws; we tweaked it to so it would make sense to readers
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>>140061883
lurking anon.Need more slapping
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>>140061588
This chapter is really gay, but then again, which chapter in Baki isn't full homo.
Any news on the latest gook scans?
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>>140062182
>Any news on the latest gook scans?
Yesterday. The fight's on, essentially. They're in love, too.
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>>140062236
>They're in love, too.
Oh my, I'll have to check it out.
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Itagaki isn't holding back anymore eh?
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>>140062525
Across space... across time... love will always hold fast.
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>>140062617
Kinda bullshit how he's the only one who can stop Pickle's charge though, Itagaki is way overhyping him.
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"You are more important to be than all the treasures in the world (no homo)"
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>>140063250
Except he didn't stop it. Read the chapter again; he's slammed into the wall.
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>>140063570
>diamonds are forever
>diamonds are a symbol of love
>yuujiro and baki can create diamonds with their grips
>Son of Ogre ends with them slamming their grips together, symbolizing their eternal bond
pottery
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Is Retsustill kill?
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DOPPOBESTBAKI
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>>140063719
Yes. He's going to stay dead. His death is the turning point of this manga. None of the fighters quite accepted the possibility of death until then. If he revives, all of that school of thought disappears.
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>>140063605
>he's slammed into the wall.
Does that matter when he's gripping hands with Pickle?
Both Retsu and Baki got rekt by Pickle's charge and now muh Sashi is magically able to grip his hands with Pickle and not pass out from the impact like everybody else?
Because something something artofwar?
Yeah, no I don't believe this shit, it's another asspull for hyping memesashi.
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>>140061588
Did the author ever learn anatomy?
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>>140064388
The initial statement was that he stopped Pickle's charge. That is what I provided evidence against.
If I was to make a serious argument about it, it would be extraordinarily brief: Yuujiro and Baki are stronger than Pickle. By that logic, Musashi needs to be stronger than Pickle to fight them. He has fought them. Therefore, Musashi is stronger than Pickle.
Pickle was a warmup for Baki to fight Yuujiro, and his fight with Pickle strengthened him. If Baki had fought Pickle again immediately after his "loss", he would have won. Baki has gotten even stronger over the course of his fight against Yuujiro and the subsequent 2 years. Technically, you could even argue that he beat Pickle during the interruption in the Yuujiro fight. All that is easily given. If Musashi is supposed to be competing on their level, he must be in that general vicinity of strength.
Baki is significantly shorter than Yuujiro, yet is almost as strong as him. There's different means of being strong in the world of Baki. Motobe, Oliva, Kaku, Yanagi and the midget from Scarface are all super-significant examples of this. Musashi doesn't have the same type of strength as Baki. Why would he? He is much taller than Baki and has a build that is more similar to Yuujiro. He has humongous hands and extraordinarily powerful wrists. On that: we changed the text in 82 from "ii tekubi" (good/nice wrist) to "perfect form" because an actual swordsman recommended it; that it makes more sense in context. Musashi has been shown to be capable of taking heavy beatings from all sorts of characters without going down (seriously). This isn't really a spoiler, so I won't tag it: he is implied to be more-or-less dead-even with Yuujiro in terms of strength. There's been nothing given inconsistently about his strength, and nothing given that would imply he couldn't take Pickle's charge if he hit a wall. And we *don't know* how he received the damage yet. It could make him black out briefly or fall over.
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>>140064721
>Yuujiro and Baki are stronger than Pickle. By that logic, Musashi needs to be stronger than Pickle to fight them.
I don't agree with this but it's pretty evident Itagaki took this way, unfortunately.
There's no need to make the current "bad guy" always physically stronger than the previous ones, that would invalidate a lot of things such as Retsu's miniarc as a boxer, because there's no way he had problems against boxers because they were physically stronger than any of the guys he fought before, he had troubles because he had to adapt to a completely different environment and technique, same exact point for why he lost to Musashi, it was a battle of technique, not strength, and yet Musashi can now not just topple characters in speed and technique but also strength as well considering he's holding Pickle of all things.
Hell, it's also the point as to why Oliva lost to Shibukawa, even considering his monstrous strength Shibukawa had the perfect hard counter in terms of sheer technique knowledge AND methods, now Musashi can do fucking everything just because, it makes Motobe look fair because he actually has only technique on his side instead of everything like Musashi.
And it was the major point of this arc too, Musashi had the advantage of being a weapon user of tremendous skill and wits but now it turns out he's good at literally everything, it makes Motobe's plot point irrelevant, how is it important that people don't know Musashi's technique when they can't match him in literally everything else anyway? He's almost as fast as Yuujiro, almost as strong as Pickle and has the same imagination bullshit level of Baki if not higher, it made all the build-up pointless now that we know that Musashi has the advantage on everything anyway.
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can somebody link the latest korean raw? I can never remember what the site is called.
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>>140065149
>Retsu's miniarc as a boxer, because there's no way he had problems against boxers because they were physically stronger
He also had one leg which, while not a significant detriment, did serve as *a* detriment.
>it makes Motobe's plot point irrelevant
It doesn't. I'll have to find the chapter and translate it again right now (90 I think), but for this post, just take away the fact that Motobe's use of weapons as an upgrade is intentionally misleading. There's much more to the story of Motobe and Musashi's abilities, and we haven't been shown it yet. Like I said, gonna go find the chapter and tl it briefly.
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>>140065312
here you are, friend.
http://www.shencomics.com/archives/1637878
Korean aggregate site is
http://marumaru.in/b/manga/32256
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>>140065379
Thank you very much.
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>>140065365
>He also had one leg which, while not a significant detriment, did serve as *a* detriment.
That doesn't mean much when he's shown to be able to use his stump as an advantage.
Retsu never had problems with his stump by the time he was struggling in the boxer arc.
>just take away the fact that Motobe's use of weapons as an upgrade is intentionally misleading.
That's not my point, Motobe said that none of the current grapplers stood a chance against Musashi because they simply didn't have the mindset and knowledge of Musashi's time, and it made sense in the beginning, Baki lost because he underestimated Musashi's physical capabilities and extremist mindset, Doppo lost because he was cocky as well and charged in like a fool, I also swallowed the fight with Shibukawa who didn't expect Musashi's imagination bullshit, but now having Musashi being almost on Yuujiro's level in terms of speed and endurance AND holding back Pickle with his strength alone is just too much, again, Motobe's point is rendered useless because now no matter how much more stuff Musashi shows off, he's already physically stronger, faster and intelligent than 98% of the cast so the whole art of war/weapon mastery point is rendered moot since most of the cast doesn't have any advantage to speak of and it will be up to Baki to pull a win out of his ass, again, same problem that came up in Pickle's arc.
If in the next Itagaki does show that Musashi received heavy damage or had some sort of trump card I'll eat my words, but as things stand now it's just shitty writing.
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>>140063250
>>140064388
>>140065149
>>140065599
I agree with this completely. Musashi had no business matching Yuujiro in raw stats. Itagaki is fucking everything up after writing a masterpiece for 3 fucking manga. Yuujiro is supposed to be the best in everything, period, and Musashi was supposed to be a threat because of his skills. As for the mindset, Yuujiro and Shibukawa are stone cold killers, i don't see how he has an advantage over them.
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>memetobe reacting to a blitz from Yuujiro and managing to escape
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>>140066724
N I N J A
I
N
J
A
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>>140065599
>>140066214
>not understanding Japanese martial arts memes
The important things about Musashi are:
>He does old martial arts because old > new
>He developed them while fighting for real, because jissen kumite (real fighting) > jiyu kumite ("free" sports fighting)
To the Japanese martial artist's mind, this makes him superior to everyone else. Re-read the whole Baki series, the strongest are always the ones who fight "for real" (Yuujiro, Gaia, convicts, Pickle etc.) or who do "ancient martial arts" (Yuujiro, Doppo, Shibukawa etc.). For example, most people would rate Doppo higher than Katsumi, simply because Katsumi is more "modern". The Japanese are kinda like the ancient Romans in this regard: Civilization and modernity degenerate the arts and war is the father of all things.
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>>140066943
>"ancient martial arts" (Yuujiro, Doppo, Shibukawa
>Shibukawa
Kaku was literally alive before Aikido was invented. It's a very recent art in comparison to the rest. He says as much in one of our more recently released chapters. He also says that it's very, very strong; it's the perfect art of self-defense. So the whole ancient martial arts bit is only partially credible. It would not make sense for Itagaki to consciously contradict himself in the middle of such an arc if the idea of the ancient arts being superior was his overall intent. And most people rate Doppo higher than Katsumi because
#1 Katsumi is an idiot
#2 Katsumi has one arm
Just about done with what I was translating; I got sidetracked by something, don't worry about it.
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What the fuck is happening, how come musashi is suddenly the level of baki universe's literal fighting arts god.
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>>140067123
shortform answer
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>>140067254
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>>140067107
You look at it too much from an analytic western point of view. Aiki in itself is more or less the opposite of modern martial arts, it's basically a meme in Japan's martial arts scene (Also in the American martial arts scene, if you followed the recent Aiki shenanigans in the real world by people like Ark Akuzawa, Dan Harden, Kuroda Tetsuzan and Sagawa Yukiyoshi).
Also, that Gouki lost to Musashi is further evidence that older = better. Or note that Yuujiro is basically self-taught, but knows all the ins and outs of those weird, secret budo skills of the ancient arts.
Or look at Tough: The Miyazawa Clan basically does MMA, but it's an ancient secret family style with ancient secret family teachings, so it's superior to MMA.
It's basically a Japanese meme and found in most martial arts manga. The Japs just love that sort of thing.
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>>140067288
You can also see other Japanese memes in the character design:
>Yuujiro is tanned and has curly red hair = a demonic beast
>Musashi has yin and yang sanpaku (ie. you see the whites above and below the eye-pupil) and is wall-eyed = insane killer
and so on.
You can also see that "wall-eyed" look in Ryo's first teacher in Shamo. And the curly hair and sanpaku in the hero of Kengan Asura.
Or look at Garouden: The title itself alludes to "garou", a wolf that has become crazy and murderous from hunger, which is a motif in Japanese art.
Those things are cultural memes and not really known to Westerners, which means we usually have a very different experience reading such manga. If we made comics with alchemical and astrological symbolism and physiognomy, the Japanese wouldn't understand it, either.
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>>140066943
>the strongest are always the ones who fight "for real" (Yuujiro, Gaia, convicts, Pickle etc.)
Except Gaia is a low tier fighter who rarely even gets a role and all the convicts got soundly BTFO.
>most people would rate Doppo higher than Katsumi
Doppo always was objectively better than Katsumi, even more so because Katsumi lost his arm, it has been explicitly said that Katsumi did help in advancing the martial arts thanks to his mach whip(by Kaku of all people), but that's about it, it's not a problem of who's "modern" and who isn't, Katsumi didn't have Doppo's drive until late in the series and when he did it showed that he's a very capable fighter, but right now he's objectively one of the weakest fighters due to his crippling handicap.
>The Japanese are kinda like the ancient Romans in this regard: Civilization and modernity degenerate the arts and war is the father of all things.
Military=/=Roman Culture.
The memes about Jissen and Jiyu Kumite are old but don't apply to a situation where raw stats are involved, especially when Itagaki himself sets up Pickle as proof that "hurr, cavemen where much stronger than modern humans because muh savage nature" and then Musashi shows up and fucks up Pickle's whole reason d'étre in the manga.
I get that you want to make a character more skilled because of long forgotten arts and shit, Kaku was the same with his Xiao-Lee and even Yuujiro showed off some arcane technique with Udonde during the very first series against Doppo, but Musashi is just too fucking much on all fronts.
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Was the old baki already translated?
I want to start reading this shit but I can't just ignore the old manga
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>>140067476
It's halfway done. Watch the anime when you catch up to our translations, or just watch the anime. There is no significant detail that I'm aware of that is skipped over in the anime, besides the level of gore.
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>>140067554
So, this is post "sdon of ogre"?
I was looking the archives for a guide and got
>First watch anime then read New grappler baki and only after that read son of ogre.
So, after that, baki dou?
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>>140067649
Grappler Baki (or anime), New Grappler, Son of Ogre, Dou.
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Right, my net went out and some other bullshit, I'm here now. Translation time, chap 90.
>M: He's strong, isn't he? That man.
>Y: He's a real combat practitioner.
>M: Hmm. That guy.
>M: Regardless, this is a delicious drink.
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>Y: Guess the legends say that you can't drink are false, huh?
>M: Dema...? (the word for false used here is "dema", a loanword derived from "demagogue"; obv Musashi does not know English, dunno how to TL this w/o removing literality)
>Y: Something that was established is here refuted. You drink sake. [Yuujiro uses an old, weird Buddhist way of saying the first sentence on this page again, it's hard to convey the difference]
>M: So he'll use any means necessary?
>M: This Motobe.
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>M: I was matched up against a bunch of people and competed against them. [he's making the match/fight distinction]
>M: Hmm...
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>M: He carries quite a variety of things.
>[Yuujiro remembers the smoke bomb]
>M: Those things...
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>M: Actually, even a while ago, it was still too late [to put them into practice].
>Y: He'll swing a short sword at you and a number of other things.
>Y: He conceals his weapons.
>Y: His body is heavily, reliably armed.
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>Y: Give him payback.
>M: For who?
>Y: It was certainly unexpected. [Punny. The kanji used can also mean "repay".]
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>>140066943
>>not understanding Japanese martial arts memes
Where the fuck did you get that? One of the main reasons i read this manga is because all the magic kung-fu bullshit is true in it. The problem is Musashi being top tier in everything.
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>Y: That guy's body has studied many, many arts and techniques.
>Y: It pains me, [literally: "it's a tragedy/disaster], but I can't help but say it.
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>Y: It's a matter of recognizing swords, spears and the like as valuable cultural assets to him.
>Y: Smoke balls?
>Y: Ninja ropes with grappling hooks?
>Y: Kusarifundo?
>Y: These are some of the methods and arts of ninja.
>Y: Wherever he can use them, he will.
>>140069000
>The problem is Musashi being top tier in everything.
Except he's not, as you will find out in my next post
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>>140069015
>Yuujiro praising Memetobe despite the latter unforgivably insulting him twice in the span of a few hours
Seriously?
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>M: But in that (my) era, opportunities to use those things were very rare.
>Y: They never see the light of day. The knowledge of these crafts...
>Y: They are enough to strike your companion.
>Y: Your eyes will go down/descend. [not sure what he's talking about here. Maybe making a joke about how Musashi is always looking at the ceiling?]
>Y: He has secrets. Deception should be expected.
>Y: They will see the light of day.
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>Y: Thanks to you.
>M: Hmm.
>M: How gracious you are.
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No text. Obviously.
>>140069069
what part of "get payback" don't you understand
he praised Kaku for being good at his stuff too, he's not a particularly vain person
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>MT: Still aren't a match for me, huh?
>MT: Return my belt later, Gaia-kun.
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>>140069186
>he praised Kaku for being good at his stuff too
Kaku didn't insult him, in fact he praised him and acknowledged him as the strongest. Motobe literally gave him the worst insult possible, twice.
>he's not a particularly vain person
HAHAHAHA, what? He's killed people for far less. Fuck, every time the tiniest thing doesn't go his way he bullies everyone in a hundred yard radius.
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>>140069305
vain wasn't the right word
"grudging", perhaps
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>>140069467
Ah, now that is something i can agree with. And it does make sense, considering Yuujiro's entire character is based around the fact that he's the strongest and acts like an alpha male whose territory is all of Earth, so his behavior is a lot more dependant on whims and heat of the moment. He probably wouldn't have killed Emi later if she somehow miraculously escaped that night.
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>In forms no longer practiced in the homeland Japan...
>Motobe-sensei is certainly...
>an expert!
Something like that. I'm too tired to figure out what the random alternative kanji used in "jissen" here is, so I can only assume it's just giving a slightly different implication
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>>140069305
>Kaku didn't insult him
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>>140069579
I'll agree that he *did* act like the world's alpha male for a while, but once he got famous, I think that more-or-less stopped (in the public sector). He can't beat the shit out of a gym full of people without someone noticing that it's him anymore. He claims he's "forced" to wear the shades so that people leave him alone.
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>>140069734
>out of context shit
Yuujiro immediately understood what this is about, which is why he listened to Kaku's explanation.
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>>140069824
>shades stopping people from recognizing the 6 ft 5 demonic monster
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>>140069990
That doesn't make it not an insult.
>>140070080
Shorter than that, if this is to be believed. Itagaki just wants to use the Pokemon-tier disguise so that he doesn't have to make Yuujiro look like a retard when he's in public. Do you really want him wearing a Hawaiian shirt and khakis every time he leaves a building?
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>>140070217
>That doesn't make it not an insult
It's not nearly the level of insult Motobe gave him. TWICE.
>>140070217
>Do you really want him wearing a Hawaiian shirt and khakis every time he leaves a building?
Um, YES? I'd love to see casual Yuujiro.
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>>140069734
You'll never have team shenanigans as good as Baki, Dad Hammer, Oliva and Jyaku ever again
We need another tournament arc.
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>>140070754
We need return of the Jyaku.
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>>140070871
Jyaku was a low tier fighter but he was a fun character, too bad he got thrashed by Itagaki, a complete waste of a potentially good character.
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