9-A preview is out: http://dengekibunko.jp/books/1604hrizon8-1/?page=1
Also, more Horizon and Hexennacht chapters
>All that blood in the cover
Pretty fitting if we talk about Oichi
>Let's have one big fun war!
Oh, you eroundic warmonger...
I've been meaning to ask since the anime aired, is the Musashi killing their enemies, the unnamed soldiers that fight, that is. The books leave it too vague for me to tell. I can't respect these characters if they started a war that killed a bunch of teenagers for muh Horizon
It's a war, so yes, people die. Toori is fighting to take back everything Horizon lost, but their cause is more fundamentally about reclaiming the Far East's sovereignty and averting the apocalypse. Horizon ended up being the pretext for a rebellion that Musashi was already planning.
Well, they need to gather all the Armament of Deadly Sin.
The problem is that nobody wants to do that because those are WMDs. The act of giving others the weapon removes a large chunk of firepower from their military. The power balance of the world goes haywire if certain nations lose their weapon.
Not really. Every country is trying to work things out to their own advantage, and this is a universe where the maxim that "war is the continuation of politics through other means" definitely applies. When things can be resolved through negotiations, each faction attempts negotiation, and when things can't, they fight.
Every group (Musashi, P.A. Oda, the Testament Union) has its own ideas for averting the apocalypse, but they're fighting for advantage in the world that follows. Nobody is assuming that they'll all be destroyed. That's why Masazumi offered the use of Musashi as a trade ship to England, for instance -- that'd be pointless if the world is destroyed within the year, but everyone is aiming past that.
If anything the way Kawakami plays things out is more realistic -- if there were actually the threat of a global disaster, there would still be conflict between states and maneuvering for advantage. Saying that they'll stop the apocalypse gives Musashi a just cause, but they're still going to try to achieve their other goals concurrently.
808 pages this time
You know, people dying is just a given. IRL people die all the time because of far more trivial things, and Musashi at least try to mantain the losses to the minimum. They always try to negotiate as the first option, not only because they wouldn't have a chance if all countries ganged on them but because it actually reinforces their point.
An conflict in some way is just inevitable, fiction (and anime and manga specifically) many times avoid this kind of issue but that's the truth.
It just irks me that the Musashi and the main characters kill for this, Toori being happy all the time as he stands on the mountain of bodies this war has claimed makes me hate him even more. Is it just me being edgy for liking the Musashi Committee and Tres Espana more than the Musashi?
Well, people die but that applies for the other countries too, and they also want to fix the Apocalypse problem. Conflict is just in human nature.
And even if people die the battles in Horizon are actually far less bloody than real fights anyway. One of the whole points of history recreation is avoid excessive deaths brought by sudden wars or events.
It's pretty edgy, yeah. It's weird to me that you're starting from the baseline of nobody dying when the baseline is actually people dying all the time from the wars between the Testament Union and P.A. Oda.
Musashi's the representative of the Far East, which is under the provisional rule of the Testament Union. That as bog-standard of a rebellion as you can get. The actual members of 3-Plum might feel like a cult, but still...
No matter how she tries to deny it, her negotiations always lead to war for a reason.
The Oda took a "whatever it takes approach" yeah. Hideyoshi explains it well in 3C. They are the necessary evil here, so in some way it's kinda the opposite to how it was in OnC.
This. I assume Oda is justifying themselves with some sort of utilitarianism -- since the Apocalyse would be so bad, pretty much anything is allowed if it'll stop the world from ending.
In that sense the Musashi crew's not quite on the same level yet. They haven't really got anything akin to the Genesis Project.
Even without Toori and friends doing their stuff, people are still gonna die.
Horizon was gonna die for something that she had no part in and knew nothing about. Because they were trying to get an extra Armament of Deadly Sin out of her and get full control over the Far East.
Mary was gonna be reduced to ether and fed into England's ley lines to power Ex. Caliburn. All because of the history recreation which forced her(If not her sister) to murder people.
People around a charismatic person doesn't make it into a cult. They feel more like a close group of friends, they even disagree with each other and Toori if they don't agree. They being a group so close actually reinforce their strengths and diminish their weaknesses.
Why doesn't the Musashi work with the Testament Union and collect the Armaments, stop the apocalypse, and let the Testament Union redistribute the Armaments like they were before? That way the Union can focus on Oda and prevent people dying fighting the Musashi? The provisional rule isn't worth killing people over, is it?
The whole first arc has a whole chunk that it's an explanation about how that's not really possible.
And at the end it boils into the Testament Union wanting to control Musashi for the own gain (and that's something that will kill even more people than going to war as Masazumi says) and they wanting to kill an innocent to get their political play done.
After that is solved Musashi ae the first ones to offer their hand to the TU to find a common solution. Part of the England arc is basically that really.
Here's a screen cap version of the whole volume until I find the time to scan the real deal.
Page numbers will mismatch with the original, but I tried to make it as close as possible.
Illustrations only. with correct page numbers:
And, this is completely unrelated to Kawakami, but I though that maybe someone was interested.
Two novels that I got for a friend of mine:
The Musashi wants to do that, but the other countries have their own agendas and they don't quite trust the Musashi or their military strength from the get-go (the Far East was the loser of the Harmonic Unification War after all), so one of the points of the journey to Westphalia is to gain the other countries trust.
They want to control the Musashi. The Musashi is the last remaining part of the Far East that can govern themselves, albeit in a very nerfed manner.
They want to take the Musashi, give it weapons, and throw it into the war with PA Oda so they don't have to fight Oda themselves.
All that while the debts the other nations owe the Far East is rendered non-existent, they want to not pay back the money they borrowed from the Far East. If anyone complains about that, their assets get frozen.
The Musashi also has airship tech way better than everyone else's, so them getting their hands on the Musashi also means that everyone gets that amazing airship tech.
Even if the TU killed everyone on the Musashi and Horizon, I can't imagine that beats out the lives lost from the beginning to the end of the series in the conflicts caused by Musashi rebelling.
P.A Oda is going to fight the TU anyways, why not just let the Musashi get destroyed; they want to fight, let them fight. I'd gladly let them fight if they want to fight. P.A Oda would just nuke them out of the sky and be done. This would honestly avoid casualties of people who don't want to fight and null the apocalypse problem.
This is some serious Frodoposting, isn't it?
>I can't imagine that beats out the lives lost from the beginning to the end of the series in the conflicts caused by Musashi rebelling
What conflicts? The only fight that brought the Musashi rebelling was the Horizon rescue campaign, and that was a skirmish at best.
All the other fights the Musashi was in after that point were fights that were going to happen one way or another, and one can argue that the Musashi being involved actually made them turn for the better.
Musashi hasn't taken the P.A. Oda approach or something relatively similar. They are flying around trying to ally with other people and they get dragged or drag themselves into other fights because they want to show the other plausible ally countries they are reliable.
I just can't see your point really. Musashi actions didn't really caused anything that wasn't already there from the start.
Musashi itself doesn't really contribute to that much death in the whole scheme of things though.
Their military force is way smaller and less experienced than those of the other nations.
They have good people, and those are the Special Duty Officers.
The battles are either unavoidable because of the history recreation+current conflict or they had to do it to show that they are reliable.
Like in the case of England, their conflict with England barring the negotiation was the duels between the Special Duty Officers. No deaths for the slight conflict between Musashi and England.
Sack of Magdeburg, that was completely unavoidable and was going to happen either way, Musashi arriving to help arguably reduced the death toll by evacuating the people there.
True, but it doesn't really expand on the topics of combat uniforms and weapons for any nations other than the Far East, Tres Espana and K.P.A. Italia. It'd be awesome to see, for example, the Landsknecht armours or Sviet Russia's standard issue rifle.
Hexennacht up this shit.
How are you enjoying your 500 meter magical girl wands and literal Mary Sues?
>How are you enjoying your 500 meter magical girl wands?
I'm having a great time reading it for the technology porn.
How it relates to the rest of the Kawakamiverse (especially on the subject of Ether) is kind of on the backburner in the plot, but I'm hoping to see more that, too.
There's two issues at play here. First is that provisional rule is not part of the Testament descriptions, so restoring the world to the proper systems of governance is a good in of itself. Obviously, the Testament Union would prefer to maintain its status quo advantages, while the Far East would prefer both independence and getting its land back by forcing the other countries out. This is fundamentally a political issue, but under ordinary conditions the Far East can't rebel due to both disarmament and the general sentiment among the people from the harmonic territories that everything was the Far East's fault anyways.
Basically, cooperation isn't possible because each faction has different interests and end goals. Obviously everyone wants to survive the apocalypse, but until there's no choice but all-out cooperation, they'll want to maximize their own advantages.
That's why Horizon's forced suicide is such a big deal. The Testament Union (and KPA Italia in particular) wanted to use Motonobu's destruction of Mikawa to get a ADS and a reason to fully take over the Far East. However, the Musashi crew was able to use this event to claim that the Testament Union itself was evil (by misusing the Testament to force an innocent to die), thus justifying a war for the Far East's independence. Also, by rescuing Horizon, they got an excellent justification for why they should be the ones to gather the Armaments.
Yeah, I don't know how the Book of Creation fits within the happenings OBSTACLE. Either it is literally the reason behind the era or just a bunch of sub-worlds to one of the many OBSTACLE worlds.
I hope it's the latter and that Horizon ends with the catastrophe starting OBSTACLE.
I love how Kawakami's maids are cement-like and ruthless.
It's fun. The first volume was a bit too battle-heavy, but the second volume has many more of the character interactions Kawakami does so well. It just gets more and more ridiculous, and I love it. In what other series is hitching a ride on satellites for high-speed transportation even remotely possible?
Unless there's a sequel in the Genesis era, Horizon probably does. We know PA Oda's Genesis Project is mean to end everything without letting it end, which presumably leads to the many-worlds experiment of Obstacle and then the stable world of City.
The first volume establishes that the critical moment will come at the Peace of Westphalia. At that point there will be no choice but to confront the apocalypse with a united front.
Hence, after Volume 1 the story essentially revolves around each faction trying to get to Westphalia in as advantageous of a position as possible. Musashi's goal is to retrieve the rest of the Armaments and form good relationships with other countries. Since all major events in this world are guided by the Testament, control over Testament interpretations and getting historical recreations to play out in their favor is of paramount importance for all factions. This is why PA Oda seizes control of the Testament Union after Itsukushima, for instance, and why Musashi's current goal is to accelerate the recreations and force Nobunaga's assassination.
If Musashi can end the era of Nobunaga and also the era of Hashiba by Westphalia, then they become the unquestioned sole representative of the Far East. If not, PA Oda's superior military and economic power puts them at an advantage.
This is one of the things I've never quite understood -- why is Masazumi so poor? I know it's they have a complicated relationship, but given that Masanobu's on the provisional council and clearly has lots of extra spending money for otaku goods, it's really bizarre that his daughter is passing out in the street starving because she's so poor. She even lives in the same house, so why doesn't she get at least the bare minimum of living expense money?
At least with Adele we can assume that either her father's passed away or not on the Musashi, so this is hard to understand.
Didn't include them since I couldn't look up the page numbers on amazon and simply copy/paste them.
I have the scans on the computer so I might look into it later, or you do it.
I guess it's Masanobu being stingy, or just wanting her to grow up independent.
Despite his failed inheritance he's still a major merchant on the Musashi, so I don't see how he could have too little money.
Well, if you think about how Ooshiro ended up after his wife died, it all makes sense. Grieving seems to turn people crazy.
Imagine what Sayama would be like if Shinjou had actually died.
Well, it was a mininovel volume for every odd collector`s BD volume, so he probably knew the limits from the start. I bet editor-san slept on it, or maybe commited sudoku, and they were looking for a replacement.
I`ve always had problems visualising insanity that is typical Kawakami fight. I think I gave up completely when Sayama rode on one of those chinese guys from the top of a mountain.
My mind just can`t compute. All the more respect for people who can actually adapt such things for the screen.
Everything she's done so far has been invisible from the perspective of her opponent as well so that adds to the difficulty in visualizing it.
That was one of the simpler Owari fights though.
I sure hope not, but it might happen.
It's certainly effective as a writing technique -- the reader feels a smidgen of the same confusion as the other characters -- but hard to follow.
I think Kawakami might have actually became less insane since OnC.
>that scene when Sayama kicks moonlight
I'd say that was still normal compared to the part where Kaku brought a city to life with a kabuki pun and a robot maid that was remotely controlled by an old man turned all the buildings in a city district into guided nuclear missiles.
Marfa is certifiably insane, but that`s perfectly normal in kawakamiverse.
Yeah that's true. Still it looked more as if she was going to die in the future and not in the same arc in such way.
This is like "well I'm going to start the recreation where I die, see you next year in the next arc!".
Summary of 9-A preview:
P.A. Oda and Hashiba prepare for their upcoming battles.
Juana negotiates with Masazumi while they eat.
Masazumi mistakenly thinks negotiating under "Kyou Rules" means saying the opposite of what you mean, so she declares war with Tres Espana thinking she's asking for peace.
Yeah, I didn't get a good picture of that one until I reread/translated it.
js06, I added an Owari translation question to this and you never responded to it.
Like this, I'm guessing based on the image that;s inside this chapter.
Dude has shit taste though, who fucks a younger sister?
I hope Futayo would be in the next cover illustration.
>Naomasa, Miriam and Toori all got covers before Futayo
I remember someone saying that she's jobbing and getting choked nowadays.
That's not true, right?
I saw you do that
It's a bean bag
I'm sorry, wet man.
Are there any ASAT weapons in horizonverse?
eg a weapon with a range of 2500km or more
All Horizons are best Horizons.
Also I fixed your image for you.
Here's a rough translation:
>In one hour, more or less.
>Suzu: Can... You do anything...?
>Kimi: Let's hear it from the couples around here! Now, make a line and answer!
>Tomo: Hey, Kimi!
>Kimi: If you want to complain, say it to Reine des Garous.
>Margot: Hmm..? Well, both of us is a woman so...
>Ukki: Narumi, how about me? Hm?
>Narumi: Do I have to say it?
>Heidi: It's quite easy If I go for it~
>Gin: If it's about speed, Master Muneshige won't lose to anyone!
>Muneshige: Gin-san, wait! It's a trap question!
>Mary: If it's about speed, Master Tenzou is 1st special duty officer. I'm sure he won't lose.
Would Hexennacht work as an OVA series?
I'm thinking like 60 minutes long episodes.
It just goes to show that catering to a smaller number of devoted fans works pretty well, even compared to mass-market hits. It bodes ill for adaptation chances, though. One of the main reasons LNs get anime adaptations is to boost sales, and not having much mass market appeal means that doesn't work. Horizon didn't see much of an uptick after the anime aired, as I recall.
My main concern is that it probably wouldn't sell that well. Hexennacht doesn't really stand on its own -- I'm sure basically all the people following the series were also fans of Horizon or OnC, and it's not really a good introduction to the Kawakamiverse.
I'd still love an adaptation, though.
That's the frustrating thing. 22k sales for BDs is obviously pretty great, but Horizon took a lot of staff dedication and lots of expensive top-tier VAs. It's just not as good of an investment as other things.
They could make bank from further adaptions though, just from BD sales.
It's sad that's not how the world of LN adaptions work however.
I think Hexennacht could have introduced more people to Kawakami if it had been marketed more (and not as "another series by that guy who makes long-ass light novels). As a novel, it's not particularly hard to understand or get into.
>They could make bank from further adaptions though, just from BD sales.
That makes sense in theory but there's still the investment cost from VAs and good production schedules. Not to mention we don't know how much goes to the publisher instead of the studio once sales start returning the investment.
We have to think about what the other investment options are, though. As long as there are series that sell at least as well and are cheaper to make, further adaptations won't happen.
I highly doubt any anime is made with a profit margin above ~10k sales per volume (not counting things they're sure will rake in money anyway). I'm not doubting Horizon cost a bunch to make, or that the LN sales boost wasn't as great as it could have been, but I just don't think there's any way it didn't also make a pretty hefty profit.
>Nate-maman: Seriously... Your friends are being nice and left you two alone, yet you do nothing... How pathetic.
>Nate: Mind your own business!
>Nate: Be-besides... What can I do in less than one hour anyway...
>Nate-maman: My, Nate! What are you saying!?
>Nate-maman: Everytime we take one hour break in a meeting, I always have enough time to make love with your father, you know...!!
>Nate-maman: Ah... That's right! I need to hurry! AH!
>Nate: Can't you at least cut the transmission first!?
>Nate: I've had enough with my parents!
>Nate-papa: Ah... Sorry Nate... I will cut the...
>Nate-maman: Don't look away from me~
>Nate: That's not the problem here...
Appears an ilustration of Nate-dad on the LNs?
I miss #8-kun.
AV with Margot?
Stop, Gacchan is for Margot alone!
There, now Futayo will have to marry me.
That's how it works in Horizon, right?
Is Futayo old enough to marry? Her age and birthday wasn't mentioned.
Thanks for the link, anon-kun!
It was pretty fun!
>"This title sound like a yuri novel"
>It's exactly what's happening
Thank you based Kawakami
4-A will be skipped since Ivan had a HDD failure and has to scan it again. The current focus is 4-B.
I can make the EPUB, but without edited images, till tomorrow if you want it.
Oh, there strikes my memory again.
Nevertheless, I'm waiting for his release before I do any image editing.
I'll make the EPUB earlier with Japanese images. Should be up this weekend.
Oh okay, that makes sense.
For any other author, all these uncanny resemblances between series would be called out as lazy writing, but Kawakami's reincarnation and inheritance concepts have taken care of that...
I enjoy trying to figure out counterparts far more than I should.
I don't care at all about LL, but I feel bad for the Sunshines. They were already fighting an uphill battle and now they're completely ruined because one of their predecessors was a whore.
Any of those three. Keep reading till your eyes bleed with tears of laughter.
Not much. All of Kawakami`s works happen in one metaverse, but they are literally milennia apart, and are directly connected only by overarching physical concepts. You may get some veiled joke reference to the other era, but that`s it.
As other anon said, you can start with either one. CITY series is his first, and it`s 90s anime as fuck in terms of writing style. OnC is what made him famous, and Horizon seems to be his neverending magnum opus. If you start from it, it may be beneficial to watch anime first, but it`s not really required.
Even if they are in the same universe they are standalone, but somre vague references can be found. So it doesn't really matter.
City was written first, but the translation is still midway. Owari is a very good entry point because it starts with less characters and factions than Horizon and it's easier to follow. Also some concepts in Horizon find their origin in Owari. Add that the main character is awesome.
But yeah, you can start with any of them really.
And then there is Hexennacht, which you can also find on bakatsuki.
If you decide to go with anime, know that like first four episodes are essentially a setup for all that happens later. It`s told from the perspectives of different characters, but timeline for all four is the same, consult picrelated. You will probably get confused, it`s okay to ask it the threads.
Then action starts, and it never really stops.
Absolutely. Especially considering she requested it knowing her life might end in a couple of hours.
I like Pope`s tastes in entertainment too.
Are you okay, anon?
Saki shares Horizon's director, Manabu Ono, and many VAs (mostly due to sheer scale of their casts). I'd read a cross-over.