Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
Find a good teacher that will keep the game fun. Work hard and don't be afraid to have success or disappointment. That is what golf is all about.
whats up dude welcome to another bangin episode of ｄｊｔ～積極的に出来ない者たちの日々にようこそ～
50% of the words in this fucking language are just fucking english, can the japs do nothing on their own?
Yeah, this is what every novice thinks going into the language until they get raped by kanji.
In reality an extremely small portion of vocabulary comes from english loanwords, and you'll almost never see it in written text.
I really want to enjoy reading VNs in Japanese but I always get a pounding headache within minutes from line after line of tiny squiggles.
And that's even EZ mode compared to books or any sort of articles.
How long does it take to get comfortable with it?
I've been studying pretty dilligently for 18 months and passed the N3 in december but I still feel like I don't know shit.
You may or may not know shit with N3 depending on how much practice and exposure you've got. Some people pick up very good conversational Japanese after just a few weeks of practice, others go all the way to N1 and beyond before they get anywhere near confident in speaking the language; really, just find some fluent/native patient Japanese speakers and go at it, you should git gud pretty fast.
Yeah, I know that N3 is ezmode compared to the 2 highest levels but it gives a good benchmark of where I am just for clarification's sake.
Year of classroom learning, then moved on to self study with textbooks, anki reps, and reading some easy manga. VNs are my ultimate goal but all of them are written for adults so they're pretty rough.
>Can't, there's someone who I want to be able to talk to normally and I don't want to beg him to learn English.
How do you even know you want to talk to them if you don't know each other's languages? Got an interpreter or something?
You don't fucking get it. A middle schooler could reach N3 in a month. Its not a benchmark. Your ability to interact with japanese mediums is still 0. You couldn't read a mcdonalds menu.
Look through the resources in the guide. You may want to read through Tae Kim/DoJG or something instead of working with a textbook designed for a classroom. And it sounds like you need to spend a lot more time reading, you should be able to get through more than easy manga, especially if you use kanjitomo/a texthooker.
> Your ability to interact with japanese mediums is still 0.
His most likely is, but that's not the case for everyone. I repeat, some people learn conversational Japanese at N4 and other don't even at N1, it's all a matter of practice.
>not teaching helping awkward nip qts with their english
I've talked with about 50 people through this over skype. Got 5 to show me their tits
/djt/, I royally fucked up.
I've been studying since last May, mostly through tons of Anki reps and a textbook for grammar (although I never really "got" it), passed N3 with a decent score (163/180) in December, but right before Christmas I've had a major depression episode due to a close relative passing away, and haven't touched Japanese study material since.
I'm finally ready to carry on with my own life and continue my studies, but I have forgot tons of words and kanji. I was 90% through core6k and 85% done with kanjidamage deck, so I am not really sure if I should start from scratch.
How do I get back on track, anons?
The problem with Kyon's dialogue is that he tends to go on extended rants with metaphors and similes and a lot of run-on sentences. The problem with that is that doing something like that in Japanese delays the point of the sentence, since the most important stuff usually comes at the end, so you can get kind of lost.
What the hell does boioioiioiiong mean?
I consider myself a pervert but I can only guess what he's hinting at.
Do not start over. I really hate people making this mistake. You have forgotten many words, but there are many you will remember, and it is a waste to reset those cards back to 0.
Ｃａｎ ｓｏｍｅｏｎｅ ｔｅｌｌ ｍｅ ｗｈａｔ ｔｈｉｓ 食虫 ｋａｎｊｉ ｉｓ？
I can't find it with kanji lookups, all I'm getting is 蝕む
Is it supposed to be that or something else?
Is there a website or some such that has structured learning programs for Japanese? When I'm left to my own free will, I go adrift and fuck up. I do much better with a structured less plan.
There are literally no methods to actually learning japanese other than forcing 6000 vocab words into your brain and memorizing all the grammar rules. All these structured course faggotrons are designed to make you feel good or make it less "frustrating", but you just end up sort of knowing a few phrases that you don't actually know what they mean.
How many classes of spanish were you made to take growing up? And how much spanish can you safely say you know?
Download anki, do the 6k, read tae kim. Thats the only way.
Does anyone else just spam incorrect answers on the "Select __ until there are none left" captchas until it goes away because every time you tried doing it properly it didn't work?
First time lurker (and poster) here. Does anyone actually hand write characters like this out? They seem complex as fuck.
Writing one, two and three, 一, 二, そして 三
Then you get to numbers like one hundred million, 億, and it's like, nigga I don't have an art degree. I'm not qualified for this.
I'm at around 2200 kanji in my mining deck and still consider myself a beginner given the type of VNs I'm reading. When does what DJT considers "intermediate" / "intermediate hell" start? Reading lower/mid level plotge like Baldr Sky or something? Or is it when you don't have any comprehension/grammar issues anymore (unless it's something really old/obscure) and the only thing holding you back is vocab?
> Or is it when you don't have any comprehension/grammar issues anymore (unless it's something really old/obscure) and the only thing holding you back is vocab?
You will always have grammar issues occasionally, but yeah I would say it starts when you're at the level where you know you'll never need to reference Tae Kim again.
Setting aside how they need a word for it rather than expressing it in a sentence like every other language on earth, how the hell is this among the 20k most commonly used words in the Japanese language?
japan has a very downer culture so people make use of that a lot
also theres tons of similar examples get used to having one word for things youre used to having more words for
Found an old journal from when i first started.
I've come so far
>Setting aside how they need a word for it rather than expressing it in a sentence like every other language on earth, how the hell is this among the 20k most commonly used words in the Japanese language?
You mean top 20k in newspapers? And most people only know like 25-30k words in their native language so saying "top 20k" just means people know it
Tbh I think it begins around the 6k mark, so I'd say once you finish core + understand most grammar. That's when you just have to go through shit word by word, looking shit up all day.
I never did core deck though. Before that you also have all the beginner resources and shit helping you, like Japanese classes if you go to them. After that nobody gives a fuck, no market for intermediate resources nigger, you're on your own.
The second one is strange in my shitty font.
Anybody here read VNs?
How fast do you read you read at auto speed?
I've been in a bit of slump lately and can't read too well. I do things like miss words ,misunderstand and have trouble understanding.
You totally can, unless you pick apart the radicals. I'm pretty sure I messed them up when I was starting out. Fortunately they're both really common, so you learn the difference quickly.
This is a bullying zone. I find DJT's bullying motivating at times because it puts me back in line and reminds me that I still have a long way to go, that there's always room for improvement, and to not get cocky / to not relax too much. That's why Dekinai-chan is much more motivating than any of the other DJT memes and is the one meme that has always stuck.
I actually kinda agree. I started learning Japanese years ago, before /djt/ was even a thing and barely anyone knew any Japanese at all. In that environment, I felt like I was towering above everyone else just for being able to slowly work myself through an easy work with a dictionary and understand most of it. So I just kinda stopped seeing the need to improve.
Now that people here have finally dared to give this language a go, I'm suddenly a nobody. I'm better than some, but if I tried to show off here, people would just laugh at me. So I have to work harder. The road behind me is nothing, the road ahead is where I have to focus.
Generally dumb questions / posts get dumb answers on DJT. I've had it happened to me and I learned my lesson and stopped asking dumb questions / actually thought before posting it and looked around for an answer first.
Getting bullied on my English grates my nerve after the 10th times though. I'm sure it's just one guy. Or maybe I'm looking for a boogeyman.
Anyway, if the asshole that is fucking condescending towards ESL read this, if you want to shit talk, at least do it in Japanese. If you can.
I have a strong feeling that whoever invented the ESL meme is just some faggot butthurt about the EOP meme. Insulting someone for studying a language instead of learning it effortlessly as their mothertongue just reeks of someone too stupid and/or lazy to learn a second language themselves.
Huh? Japanese isn't hard though (except maybe trying to wrap your head around grammar while reading Tae Kim for the first time), it's just time consuming and memory intensive.
That's a bit like saying practicing juggling is just agility-intensive and time-consuming. It's the same thing just with different words, something that requires a lot of effort of some kind is hard by definition.
I'm just not sure what you're trying to get at. If the language in question isn't in the same language group as the one(s) you know, the only things being multi-lingual would help with is wrapping your head around the grammar more easily and I guess being more used to the concept of running into unknown words fairly often. Grammar is arguably one of the least time consuming parts of Japanese once you're into intermediate hell, at least when it comes to learning it, and solidifying it through reading doesn't really take much effort (especially if you enjoy the thing you're reading). I can only imagine being envious applying to beginners who haven't finished Tae Kim or gotten used to learning the routine of learning / coming across new words yet.
I'm pretty sure you're overthinking it. I doubt it has anything to do with "EOP" considering the context that is usually used in is to refer to people who don't know Japanese, regardless of whether or not they're actually a monolingual English native.
No, learning a language improves your ability to learn future languages, even if they don't have a word or structure in common.
I just hate ESLs because I hate the French and the Dutch.
I wasn't really talking about that EOP or ESL stuff or whatever, I'm just saying that learning Japanese is definitely difficult. Even ignoring all the other aspects completely, the required time investment by itself already puts it in that category.
Organizing books in a shelf is not hard and anyone can do it, but organizing the books of every shelf in an entire library is still a very difficult task from the sheer workload and time investment even if the process itself is simple.
Things being or going above other things has a lot of literal and figurative uses even in English. But it's not as bad as it looks, most are just variants of the same thing.
Help me improve my English then.
Is it bullied for?
>grates my nerve
What's wrong with this? grates on my nerve?
Why are you quoting this? Supposed to be tenth instead?
What is wrong with read?
>bullied on, nerve, times, read
Bullied for, nerves, time, reads
Nerves is plural, he's not getting on one specific nerve. Just nerves in general.
10th time singular. It's just one time, one specific instance, that happens the tenth such instance.
Reads, not read. That's just conjugation. I read, you read, he/she reads.
Try not to be so sensitive, anon. You must not have been around when that one anon was replying "fuck off NYRfag" to everyone who was starting Japanese. I've even been personally told by a Japanese person to fuck off not to learn Japanese, but I'm still doing it
>I've even been personally told by a Japanese person to fuck off not to learn Japanese, but I'm still doing it
So long as you don't allow dekinai into your heart, it will never have power over you
Nah, the person who said that to me wrote "sentence". Now that you've pointed out that it should be "sentences", it feels ironic that he can't write English properly either.
But I mean come on... a lot of English natives can't even write "definitely" properly.
>The hortative is a group of semantically similar deontic modalities in some languages. Hortative modalities encourage or urge. In English, there are seven hortative modalities: the adhortative, exhortative, suprahortative, cohortative, dehortative, inhortative, and infrahortative. They differ by intensity, attitude (for or against), and—in the case of the cohortative—person.
Daily reminder that you can't even learn English
for the 10th time/10 times
for "grates on my nerves" people usually say "gets on my nerves" but grates is ok
they aren't bullying you, just correcting you
its a doggy dog world out there swalibro
>tfw reps recently passed 800 per day
America has had one of, if not the, highest literacy rates in the world for over 200 years. Second place was Japan over the same time period- in the 1800s, Japan was more literate than all of Europe, and the US had a literacy rate (among whites) of over 80%, while Europe hovered at or under 50%.
Hell, Blacks in America went from literacy being illegal, to being more literate than Europe, in one generation.
Europeans just can't into language for some reason.
>Europeans just can't into language for some reason.
More like can't into organizing a decent educational system and getting their children in it. That's pretty much all that matters when it comes to the literacy rate of any country.
Today's took 118 minutes, 863 cards studied. About 33% of those are mature, and those only take a split second. Unless I managed to forget them somehow.
I do have production cards though, since I like writing, and it helps me a lot with retention.
Well let's hear it.
I imagine your fortresses are manwha, Spanish soap operas, and German porn videos?
France, Germany, and the rest of Europe produce maybe 1 (one) compelling content per year, across vidya, film, TV, etc combined.
Streetshitting Asian and African countries don't even manage that.
Australians I assume are too preoccupied with not dying to be creative.
>tfw it takes you 2 hrs to complete
Are you sure it's actually 2 hours? Anki keeps recording time when you tab out, you know.
Use timeboxing, anon.
You do a highly focused review for X minutes, when your focus starts to fade you take a few minutes break and do something that you enjoy. Then you do another session of focused review. No one can focus for an hour straight.
Plenty of people can focus for an hour straight, that's why when you really get into something it sometimes feels like hours have passed in an instant. It just varies a lot between people and how interested you are in the thing you're focusing on.
too long didn't watch version (I didn't watch it so I don't know how good it is at summarizing the lecture) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Xqu0jXlfs
Don't read manwha, watch spanish soap operas, and obviously only two dimensions are attractive and Germans have three.
Um, and like every country produces a few decent TV shows, except America which is worthless.
You work your way up slowly.
If you have to do 10:5, then do it. 10 minutes of good focus is far better than 15 minutes of half-assing. If you keep at it, you will be able to focus for longer times.
>decide to watch some jp free 2 air while farming
>some dude has a magical taxi
>the ads are killing me inside
why didnt i do this earlier
japanesepod101 is kinda cringeworthy but its well made
keep in mind these are really no better than background noise because they don't teach you grammar rules and they don't cause you to memorize vocab. Its like a college course, it just teaches you phrases and such
So should I start a kanji deck the same time I start the vocab deck?
And for Kanji, I'm looking to just learn the meaning whereas vocab I should know the meaning and the pronunciation right?
Is there pros/cons of RTK vs Kanji damage?
RTK teaches only the meaning/writing while KD also teaches one of the readings. As for what you should do, do whatever appeals to you. Everyone has a different opinion and it would be dumb to listen to whatever random person was bored enough to reply to you.
new guy here. what would be the point of only learning the meaning without the reading? wouldnt it only make it harder later on since youd have to learn the readings eventually?
RTK teaches you how to remember the forms. The books dont teach you how to read them or how they join together to make compounds. The upside of the books is that it is one of the quickest ways to amass writing knowledge. You will learn how to distinguish similar looking characters, and never forget the stroke order. The book teaches characters not be frequency but how characters with the same building blocks. I don't know about kanji damage.
Learning how to write the kanji correctly everytime and distinguishing similar kanji.
The heisig names are rough, so you remeber the kanji, they arent supposed to be exact.
You learn the writing and thats it
If you're doing your vocab deck, theres no point. The point of learning kanji is make retention better. When you get upwards of 4000 words those squiggly lines start to blur together
Is there a completely romanji version of Genki?
Kana wouldn't be so bad, but it starts to use kanji a few lessons in. I'd rather learn grammar first so I can at least enjoy unsubbed anime, then I will learn kanjis later.
I somehow didn't think the Japanese were using mnemonics, but I guess it makes sense
is there a completely capital letter free version of genki?
capitals wouldn't be so bad, but it starts to use punctuation a few lessons in. i'd rather learn grammar first so I can at least enjoy <media here that requires totally different skills than reading>, then i will learn punctuation later.
This is how retarded your method sounds.
> desu da
I just remembered how I accidentally spoke 「ますです」 when I was really just starting. I know it's a common mistake, but fuck, that was embarrassing.
>skillful; skilful; clever; expert; wise; successful
>delicious; appetizing; appetising; tasty
>fortunate; splendid; promising
WHY JAPANESE PEOPLE? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHETHER IT MEANS SKILLFUL, DELICIOUS, OR FORTUNATE?
spoiler: it actually just means "good"
are the ones I've had in core anki so far I think. Took me quite a while to get it but I think I bruteforced them into my brain. The most confusing thing about the vocab so far is how certain kanji change their entire sound depending on what other symbols it's combined with. I hope it clicks in my brain sometime soon..
I know that most Yanks never bother to learn a second language, which is exactly what makes Japanese so hard for you and not its actual grammatical structure, but for people for whom Japanese is a third or fourth or fifth language it's a walk in the garden, with the only difficulty being kanji, which you can't simply pick up on the go and must spend your time actually studying, and then still you can learn conversational Japanese in a month or so of practice if you did that with other languages before.
I'm currently @ 1300 Kanji.
I combined the best KD deck with some RTK decks, couldn't be happier.
Regarding my methods though, I don't do RTK1 since i see no point in memorizing 'just' their meanings when I can incorporate the onyomi in my mnemonics.
The KD deck is my main template. I added other fields which would serve as 'mapping fields' for the other two decks. I only map relevant fields, e.g. alternative mnemonics, decomposition, etc.
1 Export the other 2 decks as plain decks
2 Remove the irrelevant fields using excel
3 Import the text file into Anki, then map the fields (ensure you have the 'match first fields thing' checked.
that's a summary of the procedure, if you're interested the guys at koohii might want to help you cause I'm off to sleep.
Thanks for displaying that you're literally so dumb that you don't understand a concept as simple as using mnemonics as memory aids and also making exaggerations like no one who does RTK does vocab and reading alongside/after it.
Sure dude! Keep learning that "Japanese"!
It's really annoying that some people actually think that people who do RTK can't read.
Smh, anyways, for the guys who don't do any form of RTK, good luck with trying to remember/differentiate 20k+ vocab.. lel. Even at 4k you should have trouble, how about at 20k lel.
I don't really want to intrude on you guys since I don't know shit but I need someone who knows their shit.
I'd need someone to translate "wave of death" for me. I am pretty sure that Google translate isn't really great in this case.
You won't believe how much my retention have gone up ever since I started having BitLaser pointed in my forehead while studying.
Before, I use to hover at around 45~68% correct in my Anki but after using BitLaser, It gone up to 75~84%.
edit: Thanks for the gold kind stranger!
> vocab meme
You do realise that kanji make that """"""problem"""""" irrelevant, right? 1.5k most common kanji comprise about four fifths of most any text, and once you know a kanji, learning its combinations is beyond trivial. Joyo gives you far more than 20k words. The only people who complain about vocab are those who can't be bothered to actually learn measly 2k kanji.
It means that you don't know Japanese (given the context) customs. Don't take that from a fucking weeb, fuck the bitch up the next time you see him.
Two happy little trees? That's right, go and beat the devil out of those kanji.
Don't get down about your studies, because we don't make mistakes. We just have happy accidents.
I'd like to wish you happy studying and God bless.
You gotta figure what works best for you yourself, people are always going to swear by the method that worked best for them personally. Personally I studied kanji first and have never touched core, others swear you can never learn that way.
There's never going to be a consensus about the optimal way, /djt/ will argue about that stuff until the day either them or Japan has been ground to dust.
>bought the tae kim book to try and encourage myself to study grammar
Guess I'll stick to doing Anki for another few months until I feel like actually doing something with the vocab I've "learned".
Maybe you should just man up and get to it, do one part per day or something. Otherwise you should just give up now and do something more worthwhile with your time, because words are 100% useless without grammar.
I want to start reading VNs before finishing a deck. Should I do Core2k or JLPT N5 & 4? I'm sure both lead to the same destination when finished, but the order you learn words is different, yes?
You don't need time off to do a bit of grammar every day, you really oughta stop making excuses and get to it. You're not going to be any more motivated to do it then than you are now, you'll just come up with something else.
Also going through Tae Kim isn't some necessary checkbox you fill, you need to actually learn and memorize what you're reading. The later you start the longer it'll be until you start grasping it.
>I studied kanji first and have never touched core
To be honest it did bother me at first, but then I eventually got over it. I'll one day travel to Japan to fulfill my autistic dream of riding trains in Kyoto, and one discouraging native speaker isn't going to stop me.
>Trying to learn new vocabulary through anki is dumb as well
holy shit its retards like this that ensure I never leave /djt/
>don't learn vocab or kanji, read every volume of genki and learn 6 million example sentences without an actual understanding of their parts and eventually you'll magically know japanese
I fucking hate normies so much
I was going to ask this on /int/ but posting here most of you would probably be more into the same interests than people on /int would be.
Although you'd probably tear me to shreds for asking this, but are there any fluent-japanons or Japanons here who'd be willing to chat with me outside of 4chan?
I'm currently self teaching myself Japanese with an array of guides, books, websites videos ect. But without having a real life person to really chat with or check against really hinders if I've learnt anything right or wrong, guides and the like will always miss out something, plus friends are nice.
tl;dr "any japanon want to be my friend, play games, watch shit and occasionally correct/laugh at my shit Japanese?" Obviously I'm not asking someone to teach me an entire language, just someone who can occasionally say "no, you write こにちは with a は not a わ"
Shit like that catches me out a lot
>Asking for friends on 4chan
Alternatively, you could just redirect me to somewhere where I probably could meet fluent people.
What? You learn and memorize it just like everything else, just don't rush forward before you have a handle on the lesson you're currently at. Personally I made my own anki cards for the stuff I didn't know and it went totally fine.
>But without having a real life person to really chat with or check against really hinders if I've learnt anything right or wrong, guides and the like will always miss out something
Reading and listening a lot will not miss out on anything. You just need to read and listen and you don't need to worry about mistaking things.
It's normal to have worries like you do. To want someone fluent coddling you. But you don't it, it's not a big deal.
HelloTalk is probably your best bet, just make sure to fill out your profile well and filter out idiots. Most of the conversations go to Line.
Some people are ok, I've ended up playing video games with a few, but you actually have to have some social skills and know how to keep a conversation going. Which I don't at all, which is why I end up talking to people seriously for a few days, then never talk again.
>know how to keep a conversation going. Which I don't at all
I know this feel
I was really into Hellotalk for like a week, all the people I was talking to were really flirty and I felt like billy badass, but then I just ran out of shit to talk about and now I've stopped using it
Don't know how normies do it all the time
So this is pretty annoying. When I try copying and pasting 直 from one site with one font to another one, it loses it's I in L and just becomes _
Does this happen a lot with Kanji? I mean, I wouldn't even recognize 直 as pic related if I didn't already know this happens.
Yeah I skype, although I'm paranoid of leaving my skype contact right in the middle of 4chan, so use a throw away email and I'll send you it?
What did/do you play?
...what does なります mean?
You'd best be reading some grammar guides.
>What did/do you play?
Shitty zombie games. I actually sent some of the people I talked to games so we could co-op, but they ended up blocking me and never talking to me again. Even if I wasn't stupid, time zones made it hard to communicate sometimes. Most natives were cool, but some people got pissed off when I wouldn't reply back quickly, like at 1AM my time when I was asleep.
>complimented one girl's sunglasses
>all of a sudden heart emojis and she keeps asking me if I have a girlfriend
> some people got pissed off when I wouldn't reply back quickly, like at 1AM my time when I was asleep
You people are like /fit/.
Heres a non troll answer. Its not the "correct" answer, but its what I did.
1: learn Kana 100%. Should take a weekend
The next bit is done at the same time
2: Download the 2k/6k deck from the pastebin and start that. Remember, ONLY click good if you know both the meaning AND how to say the word.
3: Choose RTK or Kanjidamage (dont get too hung up, its not a big deal), and do those and their anki deck. For Kanji, focus on memorizing the meaning.
4: Start a Tae Kim Vocab deck, I recommend learning the vocab from a tae kim section in full before actually reading it because it makes comprehending it 100% easier.
5: Once around 100 cards into the tae kim deck, start reading tae kim and doing a tae kim grammar deck
You have completed about 2000 vocab words, and whatever amount of kanji you learned during that time, and have completely absorbed the content of tae kim, start reading. Mine words you don't know into a new deck, or simply add them to the 2k/6k deck (I did this, but its a bit awkward when some cards have examples and some are just word-meaning)
From here you should be knowledgeable enough to know what to do.
Does それを mean "in spite of that"? I swear I've seen something that said that before, but now I can't find any mention of it being used other than how you'd expect, as just marking "that" as an object
>TaeKim vocab deck
How does one do this? Can I download it somewhere?
And I keep hearing about RTK but googling only gives sites complaining about it or the amazon link. Isn't there a web page like Tae Kim?
If it cannot break its egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
We are the chick. Japanese is our egg.
If we don't master Japanese we will die without being born.
Henceforth, break your shells and experience life as it was meant to be.
It's some kind of thing quite a few Japanese woman have. It actually has its own name and there was a TV show with a doctor trying to find out how they do it. Basically, their stomach can expand a lot.
This one put it into perspective for me how crazy it was:
I can't eat more than 3-4 at most.. and she did a 100. While putting stuff on top of the toast. Holy shit