Why was it such a disappointment?

>>138658327
-Make the OST not shit
-Shirou vs Archer not disappointing
-Remove all the anime original shit like magical girl Ilya

There, 4/10 anime becomes 7/10

Give S1 more internal monologue

More music from the VN everywhere

Add more SoL to first half of the "vs kuzuki on the road" episode where shirou first traces Kanshou and Bakuya

Fix the bad storyboard direction of the first 1/3 of S2

Make rin recovering shinji more like the VN

>>138658367
>anime original
One problem I had with it was that it was too faithful to the original adaptation, which was predominantly geared to appeal to 15 year olds. I would have really preferred if they'd downplayed all that shit as much as possible, and kept the tone as close to F/Z as they could.

>less hilariously awkward highschool angst moments
>No edgy loli Illya. Make her an adult.
>Downplay the Shirou x Rin teen tsundere romance tension; it detracts from the story and setting

The way they broached the Shriou-Archer conflict was just, in the pre credits opening to one of the earlier episodes, they had Shirou just suddenly come out of the blue and inexplicably say "I know you hate me." Riveting.

>>138658398
>More music from the VN everywhere

Rider's theme was pretty neat, I have to say. It stuck out and contrasted with the rest of the OST in a nice way, and gave her scenes this edgy, dangerous feeling.

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>>138658466
>and kept the tone as close to F/Z as they could.

>>138658557
F/0 was just more exciting. It was harder to take the plot of FSN seriously when it had to dance around the contradictions related to a highschool social life also taking place over the course of the war. I know that's old hat here, but that's my personal opinion.

It's just easier to get immersed in a story when the characters respond to situations in a consistent, relatively logical way. I.E. it's supposed to be this hardcore, high stakes fight to the death, but Rin's obvious, adolescent crush is given as much or more significance than allegedly life or death circumstances?

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>>138658327
Go back in time and make a quality VN instead of an eroge aimed at 14 year olds to get them to fap to it.

Down play the powerlevels aspect as well since Fate isn't DBZ. Focus on characters qualities and motivations instead of just having an overarching theme for characters filled with battle and reiteration of each character's theme - which would fix a lot of flaws in one dimensional characters like Shirou/RedMan.

Actually make the story have some continuity - hidden magical battle for a, supposedly, all powerful item where the contestants kill each other and then go to school the next day like nothing happened with the explanation of "it's just magic bro relax."

UBW was 100% set to fail with the source it had to work with from the beginning. Anyone who expected more than what they got were far too nostalgic for what they already knew was going to happen.

>>138658327
MOAR SAKURA

UBW was the biggest shit I ever watched.

JUST

>>138658873
>Focus on characters qualities and motivations instead of just having an overarching theme for characters filled with battle and reiteration of each character's theme - which would fix a lot of flaws in one dimensional characters.

Can you give a more specific example? How would you express Archer's theme in a way that would make him more three dimensional (forgive the pun) character?

>>138658873
>UBW was 100% set to fail with the source it had to work with from the beginning

I agree. It can't be two things at once, and it tried to be.

In my opinion, we've already had enough highschool FSN adaptations. They should have taken a chance, and continued with the general tone that had been established in F/Z. They should have done a kind of reboot of the story. And this actually could have been quite interesting to do, from the angle of expounding on Rin's unique perspective on life as a result of her upbringing, where the show could have explored more why it is that she, an 18 year old girl, is able to cope with situations like this. And, by the same token, but distinctly, how Shirou is able to handle it all psychologically, because of his background. Distinguishing them, in that way, from what one would expect from highschoolers in such a situation, could be an interesting focus for their characterization, and could have remained tonally consistent with the remaining circumstances of the story. Like, it could start with them being portrayed as "more or less normal highschoolers," and then, as the story progressed, begin demonstrating that "No, they are really not normal people."

But instead, that aspect of their character (especially Rin) was kind of paraded around here and there, and, like you mentioned, never really took both feet off the flucking highschool teenager context. Rin's tsundere scenes were groan inducing.

>>138659180
This post gave me cancer.

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>>138659052
By fleshing out Shirou. Preferably without 5+ hours of internal dialogue. Which is nearly impossible since you are supposed to be able to be Shirou and so am I. Telling the story from the RedMan's perspective as he regained his forgotten memories might have been interesting enough then swapping to Shirou later on would've been refreshing, but wouldn't work within the franchise.

Which is the main problem: the source is flawed from the beginning and it won't change at this point. Fixating on minor points like character flaws will not change the fact that the all the VN stories aged terribly and would not get an adaptation, but the name on the box allows it to slog on.

>>138659295
Well, between the two of us, I'm the only one producing original content of any kind. Pick your poison, memester.

Adapt fate instead, and get a competent director.

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>>138659399
It could be done

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>>138659180

>anime only fag

This isnt reddit you know. No one is going to entertain your idea.

The 4th and 5th Holy Grail war are entirely different wars and the tone of each series reflects that.

For you not to understand that and saying the same old shit every newfag always says about the fate series deserve what you despise most.
Oh wait, that is what you are complaining about.

>>138659328
>Which is the main problem: the source is flawed from the beginning

In what way? I think UBW has plenty of fodder for a very interesting story. All Shirou's BS, and then Archer. Good stuff. It's just a matter of how it's told. It's like if you just took out all the teenage bullshit, it could be a great story.

>>138659462
>The 4th and 5th Holy Grail war are entirely different wars
In what way?

>and the tone of each series reflects that.
Not in the VN or the anime. The tone in FSN rather contradicts itself, where Zero is more consistent. The difference is that FSN is has poorer writing slash more pandering. That's not a "thematic style," in my eyes. My apologies, but you sound like a triggered fanboy desu.

>>138659180
>It should have been more like F/Z!!!1!
Fuck off.

>>138659534
>poorer writing
what is hamburger scene for 500?
fate/zero is garbage

>>138659539
It can't be two things. I understand FSN came first, but Zero was better. Ufotable was in a position where it could have cleansed itself of the kiddy erogame BS, and made its FSN more like F/Z, but it didn't because otakus would have been pissed, I'd wager.

>>138659563
>what is hamburger scene for 500?

Yea, what was that? Is that product placement?

>>138659607
It's terrible writing, you did read fate/zero right?

>>138659366
Hi leddit.

>>138659587
>I understand FSN came first, but Zero was better.
Your opinion is wrong. Urobuchi is a hack and FZ is full of internal holes.

>>138659615
I tried but didn't make it past page ten. The translation looked fucking awful.

>>138659668
Hint: It wasn't the translation that was awful.

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>>138659464
>teenage bullshit
Something had to stay after the eroge was cut. This was all that was left that wasn't a shounen battle scene, or cooking. So it became the foundation for the story, highschool selfinsert powerfantasy with a shallow main character.

Some of the mystery and behind the scenes scheming was interesting, but then you hit the apex of the plot then suddenly the RedMan is the enemy. Then Kotomine is the enemy for a bit then dies off easily compared to the absolute monster he is supposed to be. Running out of ideas, Gilgamesh shows up fully powered and dies to an underpowered Shirou because it's a part of his character to underestimate everyone since Gilgamesh knows he is the greatest being ever. I don't know how Nasu managed to shoehorn all that in there, not even connect the dots and have people eat it up as being amazing. Boggles my mind.

I don't think ufo is to blame. They took the drivel Nasu spilled out and turned it into something passable without the cornerstone of the Fate series being present at all: the eroge.

>>138659638
>FZ is full of internal holes.

Like?

So is FSN

>>138659673
Why is this franchise so popular, again? Is it really all because Takeuchi can draw cute girls?

>>138659677
>Running out of ideas, Gilgamesh shows up fully powered
Looks like someone didn't even read the VN.

Whats the difference in ubw vs stay night

>>138659587
You mean because they followed the source? No shit. You're trying to say Ufo should have changed the source material and gone anime original to cater to F/Z fans. That's fucking stupid.

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>>138659688
Why bother reading 10 year old fap material, when I can go on sadpanda and read some good ol fashion NTR?

>>138659688
>Looks like someone didn't even read the VN.
I sure did. Faithfully drug myself through all of it, and that sounds about right to me.

You can't honestly tell me that UBW Shirou vs Gil holds a candle to Kirei vs Kiritsugu. Rolling my eyes out of my sockets desu

>>138659727
Kerry and Kirei was just a worse version of Shirou vs Kirei.

>>138659712
decent troll senpai 7/10

>>138659712
Fate/Stay Night 2006: TV
AKA DEEN/Stay Night
Adaptation of the Fate route of Fate/Stay Night with elements of other routes shoehorned in.

Unlimited Blade Works
The next route in FSN after Fate route.

>>138659727
>Faithfully drug myself through all of it, and that sounds about right to me.
Well, literally every complaint you gave is covered correctly in the VN, so I guess you're illiterate.

>>138659727
>I totally read the source material guise

>without the cornerstone of the Fate series being present at all: the eroge.
Uh huh, sure.

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>>138659745
>I didn't waste my time reading the VN to be wrong on the internet!

>>138659745
>you gave
Not anon desu, but hey.

>illiterate
I don't see how this is a matter of comprehension, and not opinion. You make no effort to explain, despite claiming to know better. You seem more keen to insult people who disagree with you, rather than to actually prove them wrong. That's low quality posting desu

>>138658873
This is my biggest grievance with TypeMoon

There's so much potential for the universe, the world building aspect is wonderful

But fuck me why did Nasu have to put that content into shitty eroges

>>138659789
Pretty sure lying to pretend you know the material you're talking about is low quality posting too.

>>138658327
It was a fine adaptation. Some points I would've liked to be better:
-get a better composer
-Faster pacing. We didn't need three hour-long episodes, and some parts such as Shirou vs Archer could've been shorter(the verbal diarrhea from their ""debate"" was a chore to watch).

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>Zero was Fate done right
>That will never happen again because Nips don't give a fuck

>>138659806
>(the verbal diarrhea from their ""debate"" was a chore to watch)
Consider learning japanese. The translation is really bad.

>>138659727
>You can't honestly tell me that UBW Shirou vs Gil holds a candle to Kirei vs Kiritsugu
It's better in the anime on the sole account of the animation, but narrative-wise I prefer F/Z's despite its flaws.

12 poster

nice samefaggin
saged

>>138659804
>Pretty sure lying to pretend you know the material you're talking about

I read it like a year and a half ago, and was bored as a board through most of it. I do have to say, the Shirou/Archer aspect of the plot was really pretty interesting, and I agree with most anons here who identify that as the highpoint of the series plotwise, followed by the few bright points in Fate where the dots are finally brought to a point.

>>138659843
So you're samefagging?

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>>138659821
>[Zero was] better in the anime [than UBW] on the sole account of the animation
>UBW by ufotable
>Zero by ufotable

>>138659848
No, not in the way you're implying (i.e. bitching about out of ill placed envy). That was actually another anon.

But yes, when I start a thread I do make an active effort to respond to almost everybody who posts. Not difficult desu, because I only usually make threads about things I'm really interested in, and actually want to talk about.

>>138659843
You didn't read it at all if you somehow think the hentai scenes were anything remotely approaching a "cornerstone" (your choice of wording).

>>138659863
If it wasn't clear enough, I was saying UBW's climax fight had better animation that F/Z's equivalent. Also, you do realize that studios can improve, right? UBW and F/Z had similar lead action animators, but they pushed themselves harder for the former.

>>138659878
Weak troll. Try again tomorrow.

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>>138659863
In the first few episodes of UBW I definitely noticed that the animation seemed noticeably cheaper looking than I remember in Zero.

The CG often came across as very blunt and awkward.

Please don't post three dimensional abomination disgusting on my /a/. Use your anime reaction folder.

>>138659677
What exactly do you mean by 'not even connect the dots'?

>>138659908
>noticeably cheaper looking than I remember in Zero.
Nostalgia

>>138659936
desu

>>138659908
Zero's CG is fucking ugly as hell, what are you talking about? Every scene with berserker in it was really bad.

>>138659914
Not anon, but in my opinion the ending of UBW came across as way too shouneny in that regard. The dots were connected, I guess, but it was badly done. There were these handful of villains that were hanging around from the larger story, and after the main conflict in the plot was resolved, they were all just knocked down like dominoes in an obvious, convenient sequence of their powerlevel.

After all that shit about servants being "super dangerous," this little kid beats everybody and their dog "just cuz." I understand there was the magic-architectural explanation behind it, but it felt really corny and unbelievable.

>>138659908
Are you for real? UBW had much better animation than Zero. You can see it right of the bat by comparing the first few episodes. UBW's prologues had some cuts with good character animation(Mitsuru Obunai's scene with Rin waking up in ep 0) and then there was Masayuki Kunihiro's fantastic Archer vs Lancer. F/Z's Saber vs Lancer was the first real animation highlight, with Kunihiro and Nozomu Abe doing the best action bits, but frankly their output in UBW is superior in both quality and quantity.

>>138659969
You're not fooling anyone anon.

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>>138659881
Why would 14-16 year old males spend time reading a long VN? You can have 3 guesses, but I sincerely hope you only need one.

>>138659891
Thanks for your expert subjective opinion on animation, but it's made by the same studio which is a fact. The quality is the same and anything else you have to say regarding the matter of animation is only your opinion and holds no value to me. Have a nice day senpai.

>>138659914
Villian progression.

>>138659987
Fun fact: distributing porn to people underage is illegal in japan, and FSN is a commercial product, meaning it's actually subject to commercial regulation. Oh, and the only version that's sold anymore is all-ages. Would you look at that! It literally has no porn!

>>138658327
The show should've focus more on Sakura as heroine, Zouken shoul've appear as the final boss, Ilya didn't die, Kotomine becomes an ally and archer stops being a cunt.

>>138659987
>anything else you have to say regarding the matter of animation is only your opinion and holds no value to me.
Its amazing how ignorant some people can be with regards to animation, but it's your loss.

>>138659960
Yea, it wasn't great, but it was just limited to him, so it was more palatable as a thematic style imo. Contrastingly, in SN, CG is often used for entire backgrounds, and is extremely obvious.

Putting CG aside, the action scenes also often looked quite cheap and stick figurey. I just don't remember noticing that with Zero. Although, now that I mention it, the scenes with Iri and Saber in the shed did look like crap, I remember noticing that on my second or third rewatching.

>>138659987
How fucking retarded can you be?

>mfw he doesn't even have a proxy
Your samefagging is really, really obvious when you can't post more than 60 seconds apart.

>>138659986
I understand that there aren't a ton of posters ITT, and I have no reason to lie about that to pad anything or create any kind of illusion for whatever purpose you've imagined in your ill placed bitterness. Everybody can see the IP counter down there. It's not a secret

>>138660044
What are you talking about?

>>138660040
See
>>138660044

I'm not replying to myself or trying to hide or misrepresent anything. It's probably about three or four anon's arguing and discussing with each other and mainly me. I'm don't see a problem with that

>>138660057
see above. Your accusations are baseless and without reason

>>138660078
>see above. Your accusations are baseless and without reason
Where did >>138659986 call you a samefag?

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>>138660010
>reselling it to try to turn more nostalgiabux as the stories are animed
Wow what a surprise that it doesn't contain the eroge. But anyone who is invested enough in the series to know about the VN knows what it is. More than likely played it as it was originally intended as an eroge and fapped their 15 year old arms off after being immersed in powerfantasy. It was the cornerstone of the franchise and the main reason many otaku clung to the game for they're favorite waifu fap scene.

>>138660016
I've lost nothing except another random person's subjective opinion.

>>138660035
Slightly less retarded than you replying to a multiple quote post without specifying which reply rustled you.

>>138660125
I've never seen such a retarded post, wow.

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>>138660125
>Slightly less retarded than you replying to a multiple quote post without specifying which reply rustled you.

>>138659677
read the VN, seriously....

>>138660165
This pls.

I liked the romance much more in Zero

>>138660131
You're doubling down to bluff stupidity, for the purpose of saving face out of hatred, on an anonymous anime discussion board, in the dead hours of the night

I respectfully recommend you rethink your life

>>138660185
>mfw your own post perfectly describes yourself

>>138659987
Good animation isn's subjective you dumb cunt. There's more movement in UBW's action scenes.

>>138659969
> Shirou beating Servants

Archer? Who had a fragment of his original power, and even then he had to let Shirou stab him.

Gilgamesh? The only Servant, his UBW is effective against? and even then, he ran out of juice, before he could deal the finishing blow

>>138660189
I'm actually not the anon you were arguing with. I'm the other one. But anyway, I recommend you take notice that your reply implies you recognize the truth in what I'm bringing to your attention. And I recommend you take advantage of this opportunity to better yourself with the insight about your character that I am politely and respectfully trying to bring to your attention, for the sake of your future wellbeing in life in general.

>>138660228
Try posting at the same time as him.

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>>138660165
>>138660171
For what reason? The core elements of the story are already known to me. Anything else is now just fluff that doesn't matter in the grand scope. Wasting 50+ hours reading a 10+ year old VN at 800x600 that now has elements in it that are no longer cannon doesn't interest me in the slightest. I really don't think there is a single reason you could come up with that would interest me. You can try though.

>>138660193
Can you show me some numbers to back up your claim? Or facts from the actual studio to compare the keyframes during action scenes between the two? If not you are simply asspulling and trying to have an opinion on something you have no evidence of.

>>138660257
>has elements in it that are no longer cannon
Holy shit, he really doesn't know the first thing about fate.

>>138658327
Why do people like this garbage anyway ? it's so fucking cliche and childish, the story the characters, the themes, the setting, all of it...

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>>138660193
>There's more movement in UBW's action scenes.

What I noticed, though, was shit like pic related. It really stuck out to me, and contrasted jarringly with the colorful light flashes that were all over the place.

Maybe it was just Berserker's design, but it looked bad, and stood out to me. Reminded me of DBS, actually. Just me?

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>>138660310
Try again.

>>138658734
Yeah, F/Z sure was taking itself seriously with COORU team and Rider team playing around.

>>138660322
I'm honestly not trying to upset you, man. Just making conversation about my opinions. I invite you to demonstrate that my impression is wrong.

>>138660349
If you're trying to have a conversation about a topic, try actually consuming the material the conversation is about.

So which is the best fate anime?

Friend is gushing over unlimited bladeworks right now, pretty much forcing me to watch it, is that one the best or should i watch something else later?

>>138660379
For the optimal experience, watch Boku no Pico or Fate/Zero first.

>>138660338
>COORU team

I about dropped F/Z because of this. Why they did that stupid bullshit, instead of more Lancelot/Saber and Diarmuid backstory, is beyond me. I don't know what they were thinking.

Waver/Rider was cool. It got too gimmicky for me, at points, and I would have preferred if they had taken it a little more seriously, but mostly that was a highpoint of the series. Just awesome.

>>138660379
Prisma.

>>138660257
The facts are right in front of you, just hit up sakugabooru and compare the clips from Zero and UBW. The latter's action scenes are longer and have more complex motion, not to mention it has a larger amount of entries, meaning there are more notable scenes worth cataloging on the site. Also, Nozomu Abe, who is a good animator, worked on more UBW episodes than Zero.

>>138660363
>try actually consuming the material the conversation is about.

I can rewatch Fate/Zero again whenever. I'm funposting on /a/ right now, though, about my opinions about FSN, which I finished recently. So instead of getting upset and just bitching in the thread, why not contribute to the discussion. Or, if you don't like it, find another discussion to contribute to on the board.

>>138660408
Where do you think you are?

>>138660391
>The latter's action scenes are longer and have more complex motion

You know, now that you mention that, I think that is very true. Story trumps all, though.

>>138660384

Seen boku no pico already, lacked a bit in action scenes and could not focus enough on it because i spent more time fapping.

Will watch zero first then.

>>138660310
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to point out in the picture, Berserker's design? I thought he was drawn quite well, you can't see it easily in the final product, there's a lot of shading and muscle detail in the raw key animation.

>>138660435
It was a joke response to put BnP and F/Z on the same level.

If you're serious, UBW should be watched first because its story was released first. F/Z is less fun if you don't know the story of UBW, and UBW is less fun if you know the story of F/Z (see: this faggot >>138660408 )

>>138660460

Ah ok, thanks for the honest answer. I never got into the fate vn's so i did not have any clue about the timelines.

>>138660460
>F/Z is less fun if you don't know the story of UBW
I got this backwards. F/Z is less fun /unless/ you don't know the story of UBW.

>>138658327
Damn, this place is filled with self privileged man children
Stop crying over this and just be glad they gave you something

>>138660460
But this is still wrong, anybody that is not interested in reading the VN is casual enough to not care about what Zero ruins.
Watching UBW first is the most half-assed thing you can do, since you still know knothing about what Zero spoils and you still won't get the ending of Zero.

>>138660576
What are you talking about?

>21 posters
>110 replies
>almost every single thread is bait
This is the most cancerous Fate thread I've seen in months.

>>138659742
yeah no

unless you're talking about the LN version, the two is pretty damn different

>>138660683
You haven't been to the Ilya threads, have you?

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>>138658327
>tfw you will never have Heracles's natural foot long dong penetrate you and give you demi-demi god children

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>>138658327
I thought it was perfect.
I would change nothing.

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desu, my gripes on it weren't even how they portrayed Shirou, but just those unnecessary additions.

Like: why did Archer have to use UBW in his fight against Shirou? Not only is this unnecessary, but shouldn'T even be possible due to his low mana reserve.
Also the fight was meant to be simplistic. Its main thing shouldn't have been how much CGI you could stuff in, how many swords Archer and Shirou can throw at each other, but just Shirou relentlessly denying Archer and vice versa.

>one zerofag singlehandedly ruins a TM thread
It isn't even his fault. It's /a/'s fault for responding to this retard.

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>>138658327
The original story is almost laughably bad. It couldn't have been better.
One suggestion though would be to stop trying to do both the dumb shonen manga powerlevel hero story and the serious grim reflexive and slow atmosphere at the same time.
But still. Shirou is a really weak main character, his story is literally dark flame mastah delusion tier and the dialogue is nasu nasu nasu. I guess you could have articulated the emiya arc a little bit better, but it still remains being a really weak story.

>>138658734
Sounds like you just want Fate/other night's Heaven's Feel and not Fate/stay night's Saber & Rin routes

>>138659399
Take Fate, expand/rewrite some of the scenario and animate the rest of the game in order (Saber -> Rin -> Sakura)

>>138662193
explain what makes F/SN bad? it's the best written thing Japan has produced that isn't Haruki Murakami

Honestly, Stay Night's source material is pretty bad. It's not terrible by any means, but the concept of Stay Night works much, much better as a VN than it does as an anime. Where each of the VN routes are parts of 1 whole, the anime adaptations are supposedly standalone and it just does not work very well.

ufotable should have done their own route and took elements from each route to do it, like DEEN tried but failed to do.

I don't know if even that will fix it, and Stay Night will always have plot holes/asspulls but UBW just felt empty. Great to look at but there were too many episodes and it just never really seemed to click into place. It just went from one part to the next, which is ok with a VN because you have the eternal monologue's which tell the story (given that you're seeing it from one character's perspective) but with the anime it's a bit different.

I think, overall, the main issue with UBW especially was that ufotable tried too hard to keep it to the source material and it ended up feeling like you were watching a visual novel rather than an anime, and I know why they did this but I just wish they would have taken more risks. In the end, they didn't please the hardcore fans because of some changes they made, and they didn't please other fans because they tried so hard to please the hardcore ones.