How do you like your translations?

>>135686026
I prefer it when they leave in as many japanese words as possible in order to avoid mistranslating shit.

I like liberal translations rather than literal if they suit the setting and work well.

Probably the best example of it would be something like the gg fansub for JJBA parts 1 and 2. I couldn't imagine watching that without them.

If they can't improve the show keep it literal though.

>>135686026
I don't care either way, as long as it gets the same message across as the original did.

Case in point, OP's example is basically the same thing

>>135686108
Pretty much this. Overly crude and silly shows especially benefit from liberal translations since crudeness in Japanese doesn't translate well into English. That's why panty and stocking's dub was so good, and why I like underwater's translation in op's pic. But more dramatic shows or ones that use Japanese word play and culture for their humor need more literal translations or else you're not getting an accurate representation of what the characters are saying.

>Character addresses a person with their last name
>Subs use their first name
why

Does /a/ prefer if honorifics or suffixes are left in the translation like sempai or desu wa?

>>135686026

i care more about preserving the tone of the show than the authenticity.

If that means a full script rewrite, so be it.

it doesn't matter, try not to be an autist, theres more to communicating besides words,

>>135686026
>Left
Overly wordy yet omits stutter, ugly drop shadow, font stroke too thick, bloated TV encode.
6/10

>Right
Parasite stream rip, staff made of cancer just doing it for the e-peen, mediocre font.
7/10

>>135686329

Yeah, so true about panty and stocking. I would have dropped that show if it weren't for the dub, and this is coming from somebody who avoids dubs like the plague.

>>135686026
Nice fake subs.

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>>135686338
>Someone says senpai
>subs says the character's name

Literal translation unless it's something that couldn't be understood at all without knowing the Japanese behind it, which is the only time a translation note is ever justified.

I want to know what's written, not what the same exact type of person who advocates gun control and sucking BBC thinks should be written.

>>135686338
I have to agree here. Public school faggots who call each other by their given names don't deserve to breathe the same air as me.

>>135686499
Senpai could easily be "sir" or "ma'am".

>>135686026
Well done.

>>135686607
>Senpai could easily be "sir" or "ma'am".
Except that's completely wrong

>>135686409
The english dub was the way Panty and Stocking was meant to be watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfmv7ZBpbAI

>>135686346
>desu wa
What?

Unless they have a good English translation for senpai or sama etc, I prefer for it to be left as Japanese if they can't. What I hate is when a character addresses another as senpai but they just use the characters name.

>>135686607
>Senpai could easily be "sir" or "ma'am".
Not sure if this is baito but senpai can mean anything from a senior friend to a superior. Sir or ma'am suits sama if anything.

>>135686026
As literal as possible whilst still making sense from a structural standpoint.

Memesubs are shit. Localization is mostly shit. I don't care whether honorifics are left in or not. TL notes belong at the endcard.

>>135686607
>Senpai could easily be "sir" or "ma'am".
No, it fucking can't. Just translated senpai to fucking senpai. If newfags don't understand they can look it up on google.

You are not more well versed in Japanese than the paid native professionals of the fansubbing industry.

>>135686737
This. I rarely defend "if you speak japanese you should know what this means" translation but if you don't know what senpai or oniichan means you got no business even looking at anime.

90% of the time westernized and full of shitty memes. For something more serious I like accurate translations.

>>135686767
>paid
>fansubbing
qeq

>>135687087
People paid for Raze's med school and archdeco's laptop.

>>135686804
senpai can be a bit tricky, but can be translated to various accurate terms like senior, upperclassman, etc depending on the circumstances and still make perfect sense

oniichan translated as "big bro" is just fine, it makes sense and it's applicable given the casualness/familiarity of the term

I dislike untranslated worlds shoved into a subtitle because the subber couldn't be bothered to think creatively, unless there's no mostly-literal translation that makes sense.

>>135686767
I've seen shit like "character speaks last name" -> "sub shows first name" plenty of tiimes in "professional" paid translations. Price is not indicative of qualtiy whatsoever.

>>135686737
>>135686699
>>135686691
>public school fags
I'm laughing.
Yes, senpai COULD be "sir" or "ma'am" in workplace context and a formal school setting. I just saw it translated in a game as "old boy", which worked because it only came up twice.

>Sir or ma'am suits sama if anything.
No, it doesn't. -sama is so explicitly hierarchical that it's as natural as calling someone "Master". Outside of formal business documents, it doesn't get used in everyday Japanese.

>character clearly just says 'Nani?'
>subs say 'Are you busy today Takuya?'
This is taking it too far.

You fucking faggots who think you're special or know better because you know some nip words. I think the translator understands the context and meaning clearer than you half baked shits.

>>135687516
>He refers to a state school as a public school.

Whatever shitty country you come from, it obviously didn't have real public schools.

t. An old Fettesian.

>>135687654
>character says "doushite?"
>subs say "what the fuck man is that a penis?"

Now THAT'S taking it too far.

>>135687716
Yeah but that could be funny in context.

>>135687670
I'm saying it is because of lax standards in public schools that western children grew up with no comprehension of calling one another by their family name. And we are left with the most laughably blatant moon-says-one-thing, subs-say-another. It's a meme that needs to die.
I imagine soon it will hurt too many feelings to do that in the military.

>>135686409
I watched PSG when it came out and it was a 6/10. The dub brought it up to an 8/10.

>>135686693
Wait, was Garterbelt gay?

>>135688092
yes

>>135687840

I was objecting to your use of the word public school.

Public school refers to a 'private' and paid school, despite the name.

Might be only a british thing.

Anyhow, while it's true that japanese culture places more emphasis on respect for elders through traditions like that, it's still the subbers job to get across the intent and not necessarily the literal translation of the script. We pretty much all accept this through rearrangement of the syntax of the sentence, and it's also appropriate to change how characters refer to one another if it fits the western viewers more.

Like I said, I went to a fairly well respected public school, so I comprehend what you're saying, but for most of the viewers it's an alien concept that would make the show more awkward if it was introduced.

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>>135686100

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>>135686026
2/10, made me look

>>135687840
Are you actually saying that there are western couintries where people refer to each other by last name? Which ones?

>>135688405
the army?

>>135688271
>for most of the viewers it's an alien concept that would make the show more awkward if it was introduced
Oh, now I understand your mistake.
No, I'm not British. I went to a boarding school where everyone was expected to call one another by our family names.

That professional translators think the common weeb is unable to comprehend this is really irritating, let alone when Stockholmed weebs defend this translation choice. It has never sat well with me since the first time I watched animu subbed, and I can't believe it hasn't died yet.

>it's still the subbers job to get across the intent and not necessarily the literal translation of the script
I've subbed animu and I currently translate doujins. I know how to translate and in fact I'd be considered quite figurative in my style (see my regards on senpai = sir), but I still find this naming convention ridiculous.

>>135688596
If you rely on the viewer having some basic knowledge beforehand, which, I grant you, is acceptable considering we're probably talking about fansubs and not crunchyroll shit, don't you think it's more appropriate to just leave the honourifics as -senpai and -sama, than try and 'literally' translate them while still relying on their knowledge of japanese culture?

Seems to me on one hand you have completely catering for the difference in culture by removing the respectful connotations and adapting it to western culture, or you have the untranslated but still easily understandable way of leaving the honourifics alone.

'Sir' or 'Ma'am' seem the worst of both worlds in this situation.

>>135688582
That's not a country, Anon.

>>135688786
My rule is that anything taking place in Japan before WW2 gets to keep honorifics. It takes a lot of mental gymastics for me to do so in a contemporary setting. Fortunately, readers don't care as much when you are translating pornography.
Respectful connotations can be conveyed just as well through grammar. It might get a little too wordy, but it's better than pretending everything hinges on honorifics.
Meanwhile, the first name bullshit just throws that all out the window and assumes the watcher is mentally retarded and unable to remember a character's full name.

>'Sir' or 'Ma'am' seem the worst of both worlds in this situation.
Ironically, this is one of the things that set me down the road to learning moon. When Trigun got published by Dark Horse, they inexplicably had Milly calling Meryl "senpai" despite virtually nothing else in the story's setting suggesting Japanese culture. Milly could call Meryl "ma'am", Maya could call Ritsuko "ma'am" in Eva, and so on. I'm not saying it's a concrete translation, but opting to go with weeb if you have a better option is retarded.

>>135689132
I'll bend to your judgement on this now that you've explained your position, however the second name business can still be quite risky. There's a lot of situations where an attitude of disrespect is given rather than of respect with using surnames, however, I don't know Japanese, let alone translate, so if you find that it translates well enough then I'll take your word for it.

>character gasps or grunts
>subtitles show a complete sentence

>>135688271
>Public school refers to a 'private' and paid school, despite the name.
A school that charges nothing for admission, accepts anyone living in the surrounding town/city, and runs entirely on taxpayer funding is private and paid? Is this some joke from /int/ like how you call a loaf of bread a hollywhacker?

>>135689566
I know I'm biased because of my background, but I don't see that generally happening ever unless the speaker is angry or using the name sarcastically.

The problem is that taking for granted that a weeb will know what "yakiniku" means but can't seem to handle when [last name] is translated to [last name] or even [mr. last name] is just boggling in its one-sidedness.
Like, I quit a group for not letting me translate "izakaya" as "gastropub" because apparently less readers would know the latter term than the former.

>>135686346
I frequently prefer it if the honorifics are left in, especially if they are important to the plot or characterization. Often you can see the change in the relationship between characters when they start changing the honorifics they use for each other. They don't need to be in there every time, but they should definitely be included when characters first meet each other, and every time they change afterwards.

>>135690013
>>135687716
>>135687654
trollsubs don't count

I can't even recall the last time I saw a "serious" sub group do something like that

>>135690396
I just watched an anime where a gasp was interpreted as "sir!?"

>>135690217
It's a British thing. It goes back to the fact that many privately-funded schools prided themselves on taking students from all over the country, regardless of hometown or faith. Publicly-funded schools by contract were often connected to the church and financed with tithes, hence they were "private" to only those students whose families were members of the local parish.

>>135690452
sure that wasn't a fuckup on their part, timing or otherwise?

English lacks of honorifics.

>>135690482
*by contrast

>>135690217
Those are state schools you're talking about.

Just refreshed to see this >>135690482
Explains it pretty well.

>>135690522
We don't use ours often.
Mr.
Mrs.
Ms.
Sir
Lady
Your honor
Lord/Lady
Dr.
Prof.
etc

>>135690452
You mean "ha"? In a military or similar context that can be an affirmative or "sir".

Honorifics make subs more readable because hearing the name in the VO combined with the peculiar shape of the suffix makes it so you essentially skip those parts while reading.

>>135686026
Daiz had some of the most retarded translations too though. Quality wise I'd say it was 50/50 for underwater and CR.

>>135690229
I never heard the term "gastropub" until you used it just now. Of all the possible translations or localizations for izakaya, why were you so stuck on "gastropub" that you were willing to quit a group over it?

>>135690661
No I mean for every daily use, like to call your senior or your older brother/sister.

>>135690816
This is sister cunt. This is brother dick. Those two honorifics are often used in churches.

You're also allowed to call your sister, sis or sister. In ye olden times you would call your older sibling sister cunt/brother dick. We have honorifics but the vast majority of them are outdated because they make speaking take forever.

>Feminine wiles

Unless that character had just as pointlessly large a vocabulary in the original Japanese, I definitely don't like my translations like that. No English-speaking student is going to say "feminine wiles".

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>>135686026
Just fuck my shit up senpai

>>135686346
Absolutely. I'm not usually too concerned about it if the show is something science-fiction, or just not terribly grounded in reality, but watching a lot of SoL or dramas based in current-day Japan, that shit absolutely needs to be left in. Shit like >>135686338
is completely unacceptable and I will immediately drop those subs and look for different ones.

But, in general, literal versus liberal, it depends on the show, but I kind of look at it a bit like subs versus dubs. If I'm watching subs, I want the most literal translation I can get. If I'm watching dubs, I want it to be more liberal. PSG I hear does this well (I dropped the show but never watched the dub), but a haremshit show that does this well is Haganai. In Japanese, Yozora refers to Sena almost exclusively as Meat. In the dub, they really expand on that. Udders, Foglight, etc., and it doesn't really change anything but it adds some variety to it that's really nice. Quality of the show aside, that was a pretty damn good dub.

>>135690229
I've never heard of either of those. If anything, izakaya is one letter faster to type into google. seems like a dumb reason to quit a group over.

>>135690482
What happened to poor kids who weren't part of the official religion? They couldn't go to school at all?

>>135690573
A state school is a public school by definition, at least in a modern western democracy/republic. It's run by the public. A state school is a school run by the state, not a school reserved for the kids of government officials.

You're disagreeing with the schools themselves, with the law, with religions (it's still a Catholic school when it's run by the church even if it accepts a non-Catholic student), and your own usage (a state school accepts people who aren't part of the government), and what the guy you originally replied to was referring to. Sorry, but a school that calls itself public and is legally classified as public doesn't stop being public because Brits don't understand their own language.

>>135690956
but professor. why do she cry?

>>135686699
What? Sir or ma'am would definitely be a -san thing. Like Mr./Mrs/Ms., that's the catch-all honorific when you're just being polite. -Sama would be Lord or Master, to that extent.

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>>135686026
untranslated

>>135690797
>>135690985
>>135690797
Because gastropub is the best possible translation for izakaya. Izakaya are called "Japanese gastropubs" in normalfag media.
I also quit that group because they were adding weebshit to my script (and grammar errors too).

I'm just saying that there's a double standard that weeaboos can be exposed to new vocabulary and grammar with moonspeak, but somehow can't handle the same with their own native language.

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REEEEEEEEEEEE

>>135690991
I'm British, not German. Not everything is literal and can be discerned just by breaking down compounded meanings.

You also seem to lack some basic knowledge of history. He explicitly said that children of any faith were catered to by public schools, one of the factors that made them, funnily enough, publically accessible.

What happened to the poor kids that weren't of the state religion? Same thing that happened to the poor kids of the state religion. They didn't get education. Until quite recently schools weren't a government service.

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>>135686100

who the fuck really talks like the left translation?

I like em dubbed.

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Which one /a/?

>>135691371
bottom

>>135686338
>character is called X Y
>sub says Y X

>>135691188
You seem to lack some basic knowledge of the modern world. Public schools run by the state call themselves public schools.

>He explicitly said that children of any faith were catered to by public schools, one of the factors that made them, funnily enough, publically accessible.
>Same thing that happened to the poor kids of the state religion. They didn't get education.
You're contradicting yourself. First you said they were publically accessible, and then you said the poor kids couldn't go to them. Regardless, history is irrelevant. We're talking about modern schools, not historical ones. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

>>135691371
Bottom. Honorifics should be kept.

>>135691371
I fucking hate "bro" or "sis"

It's really fucking shitty. If it cannot be casually translated so it makes it makes sense in a regular conversations just throw in the onee-chan or onii-chan. Who they trying to fool?

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>>135690991
Poor kids who weren't part of the official state religion were for a long time just plain shit out of luck, and not just in education. Keep in mind that until the mid-1800s there were official discriminatory policies against Jews, Catholics, and non-Anglican Protestants. A lot of that is why the American Founding Fathers decided to do away with a state religion altogether.

>>135691371
Bottom. It's not in the English culture to use honorifics when directly talking to, or referring to, a sibling, so it just sounds weird.

>>135691371
Bottom, but its kind of pushing it. Honestly, with situations like that there isn't an appropriate path for a translator to take. Like I can see how they tried with
>Sista!
>Sis
>Sister
>Dearest Sister
But it comes off really fucking awkward. I don't understand people who have such a hard on for localizing japanese to english so literally. They're both two completely different languages, despite the complexity English has it's not going to be able to make 1:1 translations work out.

Besides, if your watching anime you should be expected to have some familiarity with things like honorifics and basic Japanese. It'd be like watching a Western film and not having any idea what the Wild West is. You need context for this shit.

>>135691488
>You seem to lack some basic knowledge of the modern world. Public schools run by the state call themselves public schools.
Not in Britain. Public schools is an understood term for privately financed schools that require fees.
>You're contradicting yourself. First you said they were publically accessible, and then you said the poor kids couldn't go to them. Regardless, history is irrelevant. We're talking about modern schools, not historical ones. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?
It's a name, not a term.While it may be an anatopism in the modern world in the same way grammatical rules don't apply to nouns neither do literal descriptions.

I'm sure in whatever country you come from your sheer lack of cultural history results in some very descriptive names, but funnily enough, we have a long history of education in our country which doesn't let everything turn out so bland.

>>135691137
Gastropub is too modern of a term for my liking and nowhere near common enough where people outside of Britain would understand it. I had to look up what a gastropub was and saw the term wasn't even coined until the 1990s.

Out of curiosity, I entered izakaya into a dictionary and the results were "bar; pub; tavern" which all sound better and are more commonly understood.

>>135691827
While I agree with your point on gastropubs, I think the point he was making was that they didn't let him translate things he wanted to despite available english words being usable.

I wish sub groups could release a version that just include the untranslated dialogue. Sometimes I can understand what the characters are saying by ear, but it would help a lot if I could read the written sentences.

>>135691866
Part of being a translator is having 2-3 people in line behind you making your script flow better in English. I get he has a hard-on for the term "gastropub" but maybe the TLC or editor or QC wasn't a Brit and therefor thought the term was stupid and didn't belong in the script.

While his complaint about adding "weebshit" could be justified given the context, if you can't handle other people making changes to your script, you don't belong in fansubbing. Even if he's technically right, that attitude is toxic. I've worked with people who throw shitfits when you make any changes to their script and they're a nightmare.

>>135691371 >>135691540
>>135691561 >>135691605
>>135691635
Neither.

All variations of "sister" and "brother" should be subtitled as "sister" and "brother" respectively. The viewer should be aware enough of the situation to comprehend when a character is speaking more or less respectfully based on the context of the greater conversation and whatever else is happening on screen.

English isn't heavily stratified/weighted down by social status like eastern cultures are, so there's really no acceptable literal direct translation for words like "onee-chan" and "aneue" other than the plain and straightforward "sister".

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>>135692112
>not calling your onee-san "big sis"

>>135692112
don't you think throwing away all of the different connotations that come with honorifics loses a bit of important meaning in translation? I know a lot of the respect thing can be seen with context, but not nearly as clearly

>>135692112
But then the scene wouldn't make any sense. "Should she call me sister? Or Sister? Maybe sister? Or sister like [character]?" You can clearly hear the character saying different things but the subs repeat the same word over and over. You get the impression translator didn't do their job properly.

>character says, "doushio"
>subs say, "no homo"

>>135691943
Get the closed captions.

>>135692112
What's with this kind of quoting lately? Shit looks alien as fuck.

>>135692170
it *can* depending on the circumstances, but which is worse - potentially losing a little bit of social connotation (if you missed the other cues) or utilizing an awkward translation that actually forces the viewer to stop and think about the subtitled line and pulls them out of the flow of the story?

keeping in mind the kind of poeple who watch subtitled anime are going to know something about the way the language/social structure works already

>>135692195
for something like that particular scene, I honestly don't know what would be a "better/best" way to do it - that's really rough, but I still don't like either of the two options shown

the localized one just flows weird, and the one with honorifics left in ...isn't translated

I don't have an answer for a specific case like that

>>135692267
I'm the only person I've seen doing it that way, and I do to save vertical monitor space with walloftext posts

but I've been spending far less time on /a/ lately, so who knows

>>135692307
>*can*
>"better/best"
Why's it different?

>>135692307
>>135692195
or maybe something like "sister, or elder sister, or big sister" etc

not reusing the exact same word but still providing some differentiation

>>135691250
Honestly though, what is wrong with that? There are so many subtle things in Japanese that can get lost if you translate EVERyTHING.

>>135692307
I don't know if there is a way to win really. I prefer the honorifics because even if I have to think about it for a second, it takes me out worse when I see the same translation being used for different meanings and knowing that there is something being left out
>>135692399
that's what the top example did and isn't great either

>>135692213
It's spelled "doushyou", also "dōshyō" depending on the romanization, but never "doushio".

>>135692112
>You can call me Sister
>Or wait... Sister, maybe? Or maybe Sister?
>No. Sister would be best
>Oh, I see you just want to call me Sister
Yeah, whatever you say buddy

>>135692424
Eh, romanization can vary depending on location and dialect. I prefer it being romanized doushio, at least when I'm making a joke or something that warrants romanization, but I already know its legitimately doushyou because I've studied enough Nip to know better. Romanizing shit is stupid anyway.

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>>135692424
I think you're confused. Please see this scholarly work for the proper romanization.

>>135691796
>Not in Britain.
The faggot from >>135687840 >>135687516 said "western" rather than British.

>It's a name, not a term.
It's a generic term, not a name.

>>135691827
>wasn't even coined until the 1990s.
>"Gastropub" was added to the 2012 update of Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary
>A gastropub or gastrolounge is a bar and restaurant that serves high-end beer and food.
So it's just a pub, and the word is a marketing gimmick.

>Part of being a translator is having 2-3 people in line behind you making your script flow better in English.
The real question here is the "(and grammar errors too)" part. Pub naming and weebshit are subjective and minor, but introducing errors is a problem if that was actually happening.

>>135691371
Does anyone have the Aiura one?

>>135692424
You're confusing terms. He meant ド潮 (do-ushio), meaning "really huge tide".

>>135692424
You're wrong too, you know?

>>135692786
How so?

>>135692819
Not him, but I just tried looking them all up on a web dictionary and only doushiyou worked. It said it's どうしよう.

>>135691996
>Part of being a translator is having 2-3 people in line behind you making your script flow better in English.
Fuck no, it isn't. You might have one guy making sure your grammar is sound, but having multiple backseat translators just spells trouble. Only rookies making dumb mistakes need translation checkers.

>I've worked with people who throw shitfits when you make any changes to their script and they're a nightmare.
Did you not read the part about how they were adding grammar errors along with the weebshit to what was supposed to be a final draft script?
The problem was that the group could not come to a consensus on what style of translation they wanted. If your translator adheres to that standard, and people in the team are making changes that do not; it's not the translator's fault for getting fed up and quitting.

>>135692655
>So it's just a pub, and the word is a marketing gimmick.
I can't go back in time and trace the exact research that convinced me to go with gastropub, but izakaya and gastropubs began in the same manner as bars that decided to put more emphasis on dining.

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>>135691996
>QC

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>>135693135
>Only rookies making dumb mistakes need translation checkers.
Only idiots think it is impossible to never make mistakes. You sound really full of yourself.

>I can't go back in time and trace the exact research that convinced me to go with gastropub, but izakaya and gastropubs began in the same manner as bars that decided to put more emphasis on dining.
It's just a pub. You're suppose to translate so people can understand; not to use google to look up something you probably found in a thesaurus.

>>135693567
Izakaya are hip in the western world too these days, I'd probably leave it be.

>>135686026

Buttered