>There will never be another movie as intelligent, moving

>>135523471
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYTr10pWbAg

isn't it sad?

EoE is a masterpiece.

It's my favorite movie, anime or otherwise, but c'mon. There's plenty that's come out since that reach the bar.

i hope you don't actually believe this

EoE is great but there are definitely better films, both anime and live action

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>poignant

Have you seen Ghost In the Shell?
I would say it comes pretty darn close.

>>135526044
patlabor 2 is oshi's best film

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>>135523471
The real tragedy is that no matter how great they got Gainax never surpassed this but it's never been recognized in a significant way.

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>>135526179
Ignorant. See pic related.

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>>135523471
If you just mean movies and not specifically anime it's not so bad. I think that 2011 gave us one of the greatest science-fiction movies ever made.

https://youtu.be/KHoMMENsC8g

Cinema: EoE
Film: 2.22
Movie: 1.11
Flick: 3.33

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>You will never experience that sense of dread and depression that came from finishing this series again.

>>135526754
I really need to see this at some point.

>>135526754
anime film*

>>135527006
It was beautiful it was the single worst feeling, and made life and everything feel not only insignificant but worthless, fucking yes. I loved it, I can't even feel a sense of despair no matter how much I try.

>>135527109
Assuming you're an EVA fan you should be able to at least tolerate it's experimental nature. If you really know your movies you'll be able to see all the stylistic homages and really get into it. I don't think Oshii has any particular skill in working with animation, his skills seem to transfer to live-action very well. The whole movie is excitingly paced, well shot and very pretty. The other one's good too.

>>135527257
I'm expecting it to be shit in an enjoyable fashion, hopefully it's as engaging as you say. None of Oshii's live-action movies seem to have reviewed particularly well, so I'm not sure if I'd agree with your assessment.

>>135527006
I didn't have thoughts or feelings after I first finished EoE.

I watched the movie, and then I just got up from the computer and went and sat on the couch for a while.

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>>135527598
>reviewed particularly well
9/10 film critics are absolute scum of the earth. Ignore them.

I do think that end of eva is a good movie, but i liked the ending of the original show so much more. Eoe is just way too damn depressing.

Neon genesis evangelion > end of evangelion >>> manga >>>>>> shit >>>>>>>>> rebuild movies

>>135527704
Okay, but nobody honestly seems to like his live-action stuff, whether they be pretentious critics or naive reviewers. I'll try to keep an open mind, though -- at the very least it looks like something fun and fresh.

>>135526710
because despite the fact that it looks really good. It discuses a topic that no one really cares about anymore (The space race is over). It also isnt helped by the fact that it is an incredibly slow moving movie. EoE aged much better than this WoH

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>>135527833
I prefer the show too, but EoE is great for different reasons.

Episode 26 in my opinion is a perfect thematic closure of what Eva's all about. It leaves the physical plot hanging from out of nowhere to be sure, but that's not what storytelling should be about. Right from the start I felt that what was inside Shinji's head was far more important than the outside and the important stuff was finished with the rest left open enough to let you fill it in with wild speculation if you want.

EoE feels like an alternate take on the same themes while at the same time picking up where the plot left off. What I appreciate is that in picking up on the cliffhanger ending Anno arguably just left us all off on an even bigger one. The first part of EoE feels more like a chronological extension of the plot and an exercise in animation than anything else, the meat of the movie's in part two. It deals with the same psychological themes as the show's ending, but if the prevailing idea of Episode 26 was "hope" then Part Two of EoE's is "despair." Both feel like great trips into the mind of somebody who's not well, but while Episode 26 feels like Shinji, and Anno, are arduously pulling themselves out of a bad spot, EoE is plunging headfirst into something worse.

I think that there's some real insight into creation and depression to be gained from looking at the production of Eva. Why would Anno make something so depressing after the triumph of Episode 26? Maybe he's saying that depression never truly leaves you and there's no lasting victory to be had against the worst parts of yourself, or maybe he was just in a really bad mood.

>>135528185
Or maybe they ran out of money during the TV version and EoE is closer to what they originally had in mind.

>>135528250
Maybe, but EoE is also a spiteful film. So bitter. I'd like to think Eva's original ending was a bit more positive in line with omedatou, but Anno got frustrated with the fanbase and went with EoE as it is

>>135527934
>the space race is over
The space race is irrelevant. Wings of Honneamise could have been about an underdog bobsled team and still have made the same points. The Royal Space Force putting a man in space is just a fun dressing for the real story, which is Lhadatt's journey of self-discovery. His efforts to find out what he really wants and what to make of the world are paralleled by the Space Force making progress on the launch all the way through and I think that the ending makes it clear what Gainax want you to think about.

The movie doesn't end with the rocket in space and everyone celebrating and being in awe of the accomplishment, it ends back down on Earth, with Riquinni still trying and failing to reach people with her message of salvation.

I think that you can really feel some proto-Eva themes in Honneamise. Everything from depression, anxiety, sexual frustration, a decayed world, cruel leaders out for themselves. These ideas aren't dated and probably never will be. There's plenty more to appreciate about Wings of Honneamise than what's directly shown and stated and because of that I think the movie will endure. It might never gain a strong following but I think it will always be able to capture the attention of at least a few. As far as science-fiction goes it's probably one of the most thoughtful, technically impressive and generally well produced movies ever made.

>>135528185
>Why would Anno make something so depressing after the triumph of Episode 26?
Because he'd relapsed into depression after the efforts of trying to get the show out with no time or budget.

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>>135528626
That's sad. I hope his Godzilla turns out well. That American one was boring as shit.

>>135528454
>Wings of Honneamise could have been about an underdog bobsled team

but it wasn't. The central theme to the movie is about all the little parts that lead to our protagonist making it to space.

I agree that WoH has many more layers to it, some that i really do enjoy. and it is a personal favorite of mine thanks to its animation, but unfortunately the movie is still woefully slow and that is something that must be admitted.

for a larg part of the movie if you are not the person to be pushed on by amazing art or that sort of despair and depression atmosphere. Then WoH will fly right fucking past most people. Sadly that is why that movie will never be remembered.

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>>135528726
>woefully slow
People who think a movie can be too slow aren't worth appealing to unless you're in it for the money. That 1% of patricians are the only one's any artist should worry about.

Sure Star Wars:The Force Awakens probably has 10000 times as many fans as Wings of Honneamise but that tiny Honneamise crowd probably have more appreciation in them than all of the consuming masses who who would find it "too slow" put together.

As long as I'm alive Honneamise isn't going to be forgotten.

>>135528185
>EoE is plunging headfirst into something worse.

I'll never understand this shit. No, really, why the fuck would you even begin to think that?

EoE had a happy ending, it was filled with hope. 26 was just 'happy lucky joy joy' in the way it presented itself. Both had the same themes of hope for a better future in it.

EoE's ending was like getting to the very end of a depression episode. You're still sad, you still hate yourself, you still feel absolutely awful and terrible inside. But you can see the light, you can see the hope for a better future. And you're willing to work towards it, even if you're not feeling amazing at that moment, you know you will later. You know, deep down, that you'll be able to push past and be happy. Even if it's not right now, you know that the future holds the ability to be happy later down the line, and now you can not only see it, but you can begin to work toward it.

26's ending was like snorting crack at the end of a depression trip and being like "YEAH I CAN BE HAPPY LET'S DO THIS."

EoE's displayed overcoming depression, and accepting hope for the future in one of the most realistic ways I've ever seen in an anime.

>>135528902
This is a realistic assessment. The TV ending was simply meaningless.

>I'M ON A BIG BLUE BALL!

>>135528185
you know i have a feeling that you are this same anon
>>135528454

but that's irrelevant.

Tatami galaxy actually made me really open my eyes about this kind of writing, because in one of the episodes we see the mc getting no support because his visions where too "out there". When you get too "artistic" it becomes self masturbation and are ultimately left extremely vulnerable to the sway of society at that given moment.

Shit like the k-on movie or the avengers will be easy to sell because you could have released those movies at any time during this decade and they would have hit.

shit like eva could have been a huge hit one year... but a year later it could have been a huge flop especially those last 2 episodes. What has made eva last so long is how EoE made the ending of the show accessible to a general audience.

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>>135528902
Shinji throwing a world-wrecking dummy-spit, ending up in a situation where the living would envy the dead. Only the hopeless optimist would call that a hope-filled ending.

>>135528851
Stop expressing your personal opinion as a fact.
Many people would argue that a good movie has to have many layers appreciated my many people for different reasons.

I'm not saying this is a fact but you shouldn't pretend that your opinion is the holy grail of ethics for directors.

>>135528902
I don't really think that EoE ends on an unhappy note particularly but 90% of it is mad misery with the beginnings of a positive upswing at the end. Episode 26 gets a manic with its sudden epiphany ending but I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. Shinji's problems are still there, but he manages to bust through the ennui and self-loathing that were holding him down so that he can start living in the moment and working towards something better. It might be much simpler than EoE but I still think it's nice, and it felt like a nice cap-off for what the show was building towards.

I think that EoE could be seen as an expansion on the themes that were present in episode 26 and that they make the same points, but differently. They go about it in different ways, but I think they want you to walk away with roughly the same ideas.

>>135526876
TWO WORDS

KILL YOURSELF

>>135528851
Media isnt a charity kid. This shit has to sell, and
>People who think a movie can be too slow aren't worth appealing
is the most baseless elitism I have sceen in a wile. Why should anyone have to sit through a snooz fest to enjoy something?

> but that tiny Honneamise crowd probably have more appreciation in them than all of the consuming masses who who would find it "too slow" put together.

where do you even get this? It is so left field! and its fucking redundant to boot. No shit that that tiny group appreciates it more.... the rest found the movie too slow.

Honneamise is a great visual movie and it does that amazingly, but for the rest that it has there is truly nothing remarkable about it and I like the movie; however, even despite how I like it i can see that it has a couple flaws. If you cant see the flaws in what you love then you are just a chauvinist.

>>135529142
Did you miss the part where it's explicitly said that humans could come back if they chose to or

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>>135528991
You got me. But I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make about what I've written. Do you think I have my head up my ass? Because a lot of people do.

>>135529155
My opinions are objectively better than yours. And again, I have no idea what you're saying. What's wrong with my specific opinion in that post?

The hell is that song on the catalog?

>>135529348
New Dawn Fades, by Joy Division.

>>135529325
ohh no, i just found it funny. There was no point to be made in it. I just thought you had a decent vocabulary and wanted to be sure.

>>135529302
Considering humanity at heart, that's a precarious thing. Especially over time.
I'm not even being pessimistic, the reality is humans are just not psychologically inclined to certain choices without good reason.

The physical reality provides no objective value over most alternatives.

>>135529325
that it is a blind and woefully elitist mentality that serves no one but yourself.

That's why when discussing direction I could not trust your opinion as it is clearly biased.

I thought it ended on a note of a hopeful point that humanity can always rebuild and face their demons, but humans at their core will never change, for better or worse, and that tang humans will be able understand each other and be fulfilled, but will never actually experience humanity and are worse off because of it.

>>135529413
>had a decent vocabulary
Thank you. Didn't help me much in school but I probably win over half of the internet arguments I get into.

>>135529302
I'm not the other anon, did you miss the part where the Earth is a barren wasteland and the oceans were converted to giant pools of humanity or something? Unless those dead behemoths on the horizon are edible anybody ditching the tang would be in trouble.

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>Shit posting about overrated series which you probably havent been alive to see
This is the new,2016 /a/

>>135529457
>that it is a blind and woefully elitist mentality that serves no one but yourself
Who the hell else should it serve?

And everyone's biased to some degree, but I probably have more technical and historical knowledge of film than most people, so I think that that has to lend some kind of weight to my opinions.

>>135529413
I also like trying to figgure out how many people are in one conversation, so far

>>135529325
>>135528185
>>135528454
are one person


>>135528902
>>135529155
are another

and then there is me.

plus I think 1 more anon is participating but to a leaser degree.

rewatching the series right now, when I finish I'm going to take some lsd and watch EoE. Should be pretty fun only second time rewatching it but I should be able to understand everything a lot better.

>>135529566
Have a fun time anon. One of these days you're going to break the godhead.

>>135529535
your right your opinion should serve you first and foremost. but if it just serves you then it is probably a lesser opinion seeing as to how no one else can agree with it.

Opinions are only worth as much as they are both sound/mainstream

you may have whatever degree or hobby to back you up, but at the end of the day. if you cant sell it then what good is it for, except to make you feel better?

Honneamise is a amazing film in the visual sense, and ok to good at just about all else save for its horrid pacing.

and stating
>My opinions are objectively better than yours
is just way to prove the opposite.

I like your vocab and I'm sure you and I could share a pint, but discussing taste would be less fruitful then barking at a wall.

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>>135529786
>a lesser opinion seeing as to how no one else can agree with it
>opinions are only worth as much as they are both sound/mainstream
This kind of thinking is bad for art. Ideally all forms of art/media would be made more cheaply and there would be a shitload less of them. Introducing money corrupts it all like nobody's business. Imagine how much the quality of Hollywood's output would improve if there was an extremely limited amount of money and prestige to be gained from it.

>if you can't sell it then what good is it for, except to make you feel better?
Mein gott! We can't have that!

>>135529983
good you make a bunch of art movies that get played at art cinimas that only like 2 people in every 25 actually go to. shit is fucking good but only those people who like artsy films really get it so you lose 2 mill.

no big you pump out another masterpiece that no one likes and lose another 2 mill.... but fuck now you cant pay half your team... guess its time to hire shity interns that work for free.


You make another movie that is supper artistic..... but now not only does no one want to see it, it is now objectively bad because your team is gone due to no pay and those work for free interns didn't know jack shit.

unfortunately for you we don't live in ideal worlds and not everyone wants to see a 7 layers of hell deep kind of movies all the time.

liking ideas that work is not a bad thing for art. all art is based on something else that works. Whats bad for art is being complacent. Demand more of your art, if you truly care about it. Realize that things have flaws and demand that those flaws be fixed and if enough people agree that that should be fixed, then it eventually will be. An artists and someone who cares about art truly should go to his favorite work and be able to say "it is shit cus X and X". I like WoH but i can call it the fuck out for its shity pacing. I like kara no kyooukai a fuck ton, but i can call out the fact that it suffers from type moon style over substance at times and that I hate how simple some of the character designs are.

I don't understand what the fuck happens at the end. I thought humanity was suppose to come back but all we see is Shinji and Asuka. Where is everyone else? If other human are gone and it just them as the new Adam and Eve how the fuck are they suppose to survive?

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>>135530697
That's the whole point of the ending, is to make you think about what happened to the REST of humanity.

All we really now is that both Asuka and Shinji ARE on Earth, they do exist, they are no longer in the "Sea of LCL" but past that we have no idea who has willed themselves into existence and who has not.

That's one of the biggest parts of the ending, for you take make your own decision based on what you saw in the show and what you feel about human beings in real life, if given the chance, would people want to have pain and fear in their hearts but still be able to retain their separate forms or would humanity stay all as one body, one soul, to experience eternal bliss?

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>>135530697
>it just them as the new Adam and Eve
Just fucking stop with this retarded interpretation. Yui literally states anyone can come back. We're shown a a glimpse of one beach for a few moments. Anyone who runs with Adam and Eve bullshit clearly didn't pay enough attention.

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>>135530791
I guess I made their decision about separate forms sound kind of depressing, what happens in those who come back into their forms are now able to experience human social interactions, one of the biggest themes of Evangelion is showing that, while humans can hurt each other, the love, kindness, respect, and connections we make are worth much more than the hate and fear we have for each other. So that's where the big deciding factor for all of humanity comes in, experience the amazement of human interaction or live on forever in the Sea of LCL experiencing ones own personal heaven but without the amazement of human interaction.

>>135530633
Patronage and volunteer work could probably prop up a decent amount of movies if a fair amount of people wanted to. A little bit of money can go a long way if you're careful. Hollywood throws so much money around that I'm convinced 90% of movies are some kind of tax-cheat or something. Hardware, another one of my favourite science-ficiton movies, was made for ~$300 000 with a first-time director at the helm and a crew that had mostly worked on music-videos. It looks very impressive, has everything it needs to work and most importantly, is good. Wrangling up a few hundred-thousand dollars and maybe a few dozen dedicated professionals with varying levels of experience together doesn't sound impossible.

And who says that nobody will see these movies? It's all marketing. A big movie probably has at least half of its audience before it's even out, and the rest is a matter of how it's sold.

And you seem to have a very shallow idea of what "artistic" means. To me it means something created for pretty much any reason other than because it will probably make money. I think that George Lucas, Brian De Palma and James Cameron are artists. It's not all Derek Jarman's and Frederico Felini's.

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>>135523471
I think it's one of the movies that has the best balance of heart, mind and eyes. It will bend your mind, make your cry and is so beautiful, frame by frame that you can't leave your eyes off the screen.

There are lots of amazing animated movies, but this one really does fuckin stand out.

>>135528454
I always believed in the Wings of Honneamise

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>>135529302
Mere words spoken by Yui when she was about to bugger off on a galactic cruise in her god-body.

>>135529290
Everyone eats at Mc Donalds, too.

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>>135531388
>mere words
>literally comes from the soul that is in the EVA WHICH CONTAINS THE SEED OF KNOWLEDGE, MEANING SHE IS PRETTY MUCH ALL KNOWING
Nigga what the fuck what she is saying is literally true because she holds the other part OF DESTROYING ALL OF HUMANITY AGAIN

>>135531106
how the fuck can you sit there and type
>To me it means something created for pretty much any reason other than because it will probably make money.

and then go on to mention the name G. Lucas? are you fucking serious with me? not only did half the reason star wars sold so well is because Lucas was the inventor of "lets merchandise the shit out of this" but also because he is also a fucking hack who got lucky with his original trilogy. Those movies would look a lot different if he had his way.

>could probably prop up a decent amount of movies if a fair amount of people wanted to.
but they fucking don't, because they want to get fucking paid, because they want to fucking eat and live in a house too.

you live in this fantasy world where people will just magical world where everything just works. sorry bucko, but when you put on your big boy pants you are forced to see that it doesn't and saying "but if it worked like this" is just a wast of time.

Sorry for demanding more from my art. sorry that i can pick at flaws in a medium AND STILL enjoy it despite its flaws. If i have a shallow view of art, then you have a narrow and boring view.

I swear this whole "naa man money is bad" mentality is fucking weak and ignorant. you think money is bad for the industry? hardly, because money is the only thing that keeps the industry moving and growing. Make no mistake, money has always been the thing that drives art, not the other way around and if that industry does not grow to support all the people who need money, then it is a doomed industry.

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>>135530697
So Shinji and Asuka take bad, just as Adam and Lilith; and however Shinji and Rei were loved, although they never got it to express freely (Well, Rei says in "The end of Evangelion"). Then Shinji must kill and kick Asuka from the "paradise" so that Rei can enter, who waits for the expulsion of Lilith.

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Happy new year Anno.

>>135531699
First I really, really, really hate the term, but your post is projection if I've ever seen it on 4chan.

Now, on to George Lucas. I think he's probably the most misunderstood and unfairly treated filmmaker in the history of the medium. The way that everybody mercilessly shits on him is horrible. From the start of his career all the way through to Revenge of the Sith I think that Lucas was and still is an artist. How can you call the man a hack? Have you seen any of his work other than Star Wars? I think that his first movie, THX1138, is not only probably the most impressive technical achievement of its time, it's also amazing on a storytelling level. I think it's one of the strongest pieces of dystopic fiction ever created, let alone presented in film. He did such a good job of the technical presentation there that many people overlook the human story it's framing, which is a shame because it's really good. Lucas presents a society that has put survival and efficiency above all else, resulting in a world without struggle, but also without beauty, love or any reason for existing. It's haunting stuff.

>>135532127

>let's merchandise the shit out of this
Star Wars was originally intended to come out far more mature, but when he realized that the childish end result was fucking huge with kids why wouldn't he capitalize on that? They wanted it and he gave it to them. And at the same time I'd argue that he managed to turn Star Wars into something unique and valuable. Don't go calling it a "fluke", Lucas put far more thought into all of Star Wars than people give him credit for. Are you familiar with the "ring theory" of Star Wars? The idea is that, by looking at recurring themes and elements throughout the entire Star Wars saga it's clear that Lucas put a lot of thought into making Star Wars more than just a Blockbuster with 5 chronological extensions for the sake of it, Star Wars is the first true saga of the film medium, an epic story composed of several parts, each of which stands alone but creates a greater whole.

>>135532159
lol

>>135531699
>entire second part of this post
Jesus Christ, I just mean Hollywood should die more than anything else. I don't have a problem with the idea of movies being a part of an industry, but I'd prefer if that industry more closely resembled something like Italy's or England's. Smaller productions made for the sake of the vision of the movie as much as anything else.

I only made it to episode 11.

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>>135532330
Wow that WEBM DESTROYS mine

>>135528660
The man knows how to capture terror and despair, and seeing how they are going back to the "Fuck your shit and everything else close to you" kind of Godzilla I think he will do well

>>135529302
But there is nothing to come back to

>>135532330
Almost every single square is a beautiful moment. EoE really is a masterpiece.

>>135532240
Fuck off. Also that whole argument is so stupid. You clearly can't judge a piece of work in a 100% objective manner, but you sure can try to get as close to it by using a set of criterias to evaluate said piece of work.

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>>135526754
Nah, Oshii should have stayed with animation.

>>135532598
>that whole argument
He just said "lol."

>>135532598
why should anybody continue to listen to you after you referred to the ring theory?

>>135532988
I was referring to the argument that was going on between the two anons from the post he quoted.

>>135533050
I don't think anybody said anything about an objectively correct way to judge anything.

>>135527006
>people got depressed after evangelion
nigga its the most uplifting shit ever, got me out of a year+ long depression

>>135533791
Not really. It's message is that ultimately life sucks but there is always the potential that you can make it a little more tolerable somewhere down the line so it's better to keep living with that hope than ending it all. That's not uplifting, it's mildly optimistic at best and a very nihilistic message at worst.

>>135533873
which really is the perfect thing to say to someone whos already depressed

>>135527006
>>135527231
retards, i bet you're a woman

>2016
>People still argue about which Eva ending they prefer

To those who still don't get it, the TV ending shows what partially what happens in the mind of Shinji during instrumentality.
They are not separate or different endings, since they are both part of the same ending.

>>135534057
I don't think anyone disputes that but you can't argue the tone of the two endings is drastically different. The TV series ending is far happier than EoE which is brutally nihilistic right up until the end

>>135534102
rewatch, faggot. Tv ending is also pessimistic up until the very end

>>135534154
It really isn't. Virtually the entire last episode is talking to Shinji about why he should continue living. There is nothing pessimistic in it at all apart from Shinji himself. EoE has the cast getting gunned down in cold blood among a huge list of depressing and pessimistic imagery.

>>135533113
That's how the argument began.