Which company performed best in 2015?
Yeah, lets just make up some sales figures instead to make it fair?
An anime studio is a business, the goal of a business is to make money, making successful anime is important to keep themselves going as a business. The sales of video discs are one indicator of the commercial success of an animation.
>lets just make up some sales figures instead to make it fair
If you insist on only using the true figures, then there's no point to having that discussion at all yet. But I don't think it's worthless at all to discuss "made-up" figures when those figures are 100% certain to more than make up the difference.
None of that business shit is either your matter of that of the general audience, son. I bet you guys actually think Twilight is a masterpiece because it sells like fuck. Ridiculous
Of course there is a point. Business doesn't just ignore performance over the course of a year to date at the 3rd quarter just because a year hasn't finished yet. The assess how the year went so far and project what might happen with the rest of it. This kind of shit is fairly obvious. It just seems that you like SHAFT and feel they are being unfairly misrepresented more than anything.
The performance of a company is all about commercial success, the company that makes the most money is always the company that has performed the best. Companies are not artists. They might hire artists to make their products to try make money, but that product being critically perceived as good or bad is secondary to a company as compared to if it is making money or not.
Sorry for your comprehension failure, /a/non. But if you think sales number has anything to do with its quality as an artwork then you must be some serious edgy kid literally brainwashed by salesfags or perhaps Yaraon the mastermind. Quite pity actually
KyoAni is still bar none the most consistently high quality studio in the industry, by a considerable margin. Whether you love or hate the shows they produce, it isn't really up for debate.
Shaft did pull it back at the end a bit with Owari though, easily the best monogatari installment since Bake, and they really managed to nail the tone and visual direction again after not doing well with that series basically since Bake ended. Nisekoi looked pretty good too. It was close but it still can't touch KyoAni. PA works didn't really stand out all that much this year as far as I remember.
>Business doesn't just ignore performance over the course of a year to date at the 3rd quarter just because a year hasn't finished yet. The assess how the year went so far and project what might happen with the rest of it.
But this isn't a business meeting at the end of the third quarter. This is an /a/ thread about the entire year at the end of the year. Which is why bringing up official sales reports as the sole determinant makes no sense when only three seasons of sales reports are out.
>It just seems that you like SHAFT and feel they are being unfairly misrepresented more than anything.
No, SHAFT is just the only one of the three with a show this Fall.
>best monogatari installment since Bake
>he didn't watch SS
Fortunately I include the premise of the show in assessing it's quality. Hibike gets a 1/10 for creativity and premise, no matter how "high quality" it is.
>bringing up official sales reports as the sole determinant makes no sense
It is this kind of comment that leads to the conclusion that you are a butthurt SHAFT fanboy blinded by anger that his favourite studio looks bad because its most popular show doesn't have any sales figures yet to be honest.
You should notice that nowhere in the chain of posts we have made back and forth have I ever made any such claim of those figure posted as a "sole determinant". In fact in posts you have responded to I have pointed out the opposite.
>sales of video discs are one indicator of the commercial success
>assess how the year went so far and project what might happen with the rest of it
In a college debate classroom, a delusional Shaftfag and a narcissist, elitist Kyoanusfag were debating which studio was best.
"Kyoani shows sold over 300,000 from 2002 to 2009! And they deserve all the circlejerking because their artwork is objectively the best!" said the Kyoanusfag.
"Well, fewer Shaft shows sold over 200,000 between 2009 and 2013, so that's more bang for your buck! And at least Shaft faces don't all look the same!" said the Shaftfag.
Just then a brave Production IG fan who had bought over 1500 SnK figurines (and even some for Gargantia) and a limited-edition replica Dominator and fully understood the necessity of Titan Shifters stood up and held up some artwork.
"Could you tell me what this is, bakas?" he said.
"Sure, the one on the right is some oil rigs at sea, and the one on the left is the Tokyo skyline," said the Kyoanusfag.
"Wrong! Those are backgrounds from, respectively, Gargantia and Ghost in the Shell. If they were Kyoanusshit they'd be scanned photos with Photoshop lighting effects and blurring added, and if they were Shaftshit they'd be the zero-depth-and-shading 2-D backgrounds that might have looked cool the first time around in Bakemonogatari but now just look overused, pretentious, and cheap."
The two debators were visibly shaken, and dropped their unsold Tamako Market and Sasami-san DVDs. They ran out of the room crying their weeaboo crocodile tears. The same tears Shaftfags cry in joy and Kyoanusfags cry in sadness because everyone "knows" sales=quality.
The students applauded and all went out and bought as many SnK and Psycho Pass DVDs as they could find. "Out of Control" was sung many times, Amy and her two slutty friends themselves appeared before the classroom and belly-danced for everyone.
The debators lost their tuition and were expelled the next day. Akane Tsunemori found that one's Hue had gone dark and he needed to be "dominated", and the other was eaten by a Titan.
That's actually retarded, it's only judging the show based on your personal taste in story types. It's literally just criticizing it for not trying to pander to your interests and be what you want it to be with a complete disregard for how well executed it was for what it was trying to be. Essentially "KyoAni stop making things I don't like!"
Then why are we having this conversation? My original point, which I think I've made pretty clear by now, is just that dropping >>135334943 as a response to OP isn't useful when it leaves out what's probably the most relevant entry if we're discussing commercial success.
>It's literally just criticizing it for not trying to pander to your interests and be what you want it to be with a complete disregard for how well executed it was for what it was trying to be
I'm not him, and giving Euphonium a 1/10 is retarded, but I defend this. It doesn't mean they're bad at animation or anything, but if they make shows I don't like I'm obviously not going to like the studio.
The point is you are wrong. It is extremely useful as it shows the commercial success of the studios in question in terms of video disc sales this year to date. Do you have any other objective quantifiable measures of commercial success to post? Or do we prefer just to make the rest of the year up because you don't like that one show isn't there?
In a college debate class, a Shaftfag and a Kyoanusfag were debating which was the superior studio.
"Shaft isn't technically an anime studio!"
"At least their faces don't all look the same!"
Just then a brave Trigger fan who had bought over 1500 KLK figurines and fully understood the necessity of Inou Battle stood up and held up what appeared to be a rock. "How old is this rock, bakas?" he asked.
"O-Haruhi-sama created it 9 years ago, ahou," said the Kyoanusfag.
"No, Godoka created it 4 years ago, and Homucifer recreated it 1.5 years ago," said the Shaftfag.
"Wrong! This is actually a bundle of Life Fibers created by based Trigger 2 years ago! If it were created by Godoka or Homucifer it would be tilting its head by now, and if it were created by Haruhi it would have evolved the Kyoanus sameface by now!" he said.
The two students were visibly shocked, dropped their unsold Tamako Market and Sasami-san DVD's, and ran out of the room crying their crocodile tears. The same tears Shaftfags cry in joy and Kyoanusfags cry in sadness, still thinking that sales=quality.
The student applauded and quit to enroll in Honnouji Academy that day. "Before My Body Is Dry" was sung several times, and a Goku uniform labeled 'Savior of Animu' landed on the flag and shed a tear on a discarded uniform. Ragyo Kiryuuin herself appeared to offer everyone free Goku uniforms.
The two debators lost their tuition and were expelled the next day. They died when they were betrayed by their clothing, and Inferno Cop himself showed up to personally take them to the lake of fire for eternity.
>thinking a drama about a little girl band is interesting
When that one show is obviously a big deal, pretending that you don't know that because it's not on the chart and judging based on a chart that everyone knows gives the wrong impression is pigheaded as hell.
I think the writing overall was on a higher level than most of what Nisio has done since Bake. The pacing wasn't complete trash like normal, the dialogues were actually well-written, fun, and meaningful again instead of intentionally confusing and rambling (with the exception of anytime Gaen was on screen), and the characters acted like they should again, much more energetic and with more, well, character. Ougi especially was a really well-done character. And the stories were engaging and had a point to them. You're right that Ougi Formula was the best, and that Sodachi's ending was a bit questionable, but I thought for what it was Shinobu Mail was handled very well. More importantly though, the direction and tone of the whole thing was much more in line with Bake's and what made the series work. They were willing to have a lot more fun with the visuals than recent installments. We can all agree Nise, Hana, and Tsuki were pretty bad and Bake was the best I'm sure, but I do think Owari edges out SS as well.
The posting of the figures you have taken exception to did not judge anything. You seem to have merely taken it to judge SHAFT implicitly because of the lack of a show that has no place on such a list currently is not there and the lack of that show makes their performance appear worse to those who might be retarded enough not to be able to work out why it isn't there.
>He thinks a show about some losers in space is interesting
Shaft is always the same "2deeploli" shit. Fucking always. Give them other project , they don't care and go to make more gatari shit again.
Kyoto need to make fantastic things again , all that talented wasted always make me ill.
I took it to judge that the best performing studio was the one with the most profit according to that list, because what the hell else would I assume when it's given as an answer to the question "which company performed best in 2015"? At this point, I'm assuming you're just being obtuse to shitpost and am going to stop responding to you. Goodnight.
Of course you don't have to like it, but there's a difference between not liking something and asserting it's bad just because it doesn't belong to a genre you enjoy. You can dislike something and still recognize the quality. I personally didn't enjoy Mushishi because it doesn't really appeal to me for whatever reason, but I can still see what it's going for and that it does a damn good job of it.
>Whether you love or hate the shows they produce
Nah. They managed to get a pretty consistent 'don't care' on the care-o-meter their last 4/5 shows. I don't even hate, or like this shit. I just don't care anymore.
it's like a one trick pony, except all their directors are different ponies that all have the same only trick
Good animators, the directors influence each other enough to make similar shows, but are different enough to have divided fanbases
They're better off not trying to be KyoAni. They need to make more Uchouten Kazoku and use its director more.
Why would you assume that the sales of discs correlates directly in any way to a studios own profit? Or did you think those numbers were studios profits on individual shows? Now you are just looking ignorant to be honest. Those are the average numbers of discs sold per volume for each of those shows. In the case of an adaptation we have what portion of that sales money if any is going to the studio in question. All it really serves as is an indicator of which studios have made the anime which have been the most commercially successful.
>Good animators, the directors influence each other enough to make similar shows, but are different enough to have divided fanbases
how come they only made 1 series per year if they're creative.
I don't get this meme, Hana was great.
It was interesting through all of its duration and I really can't see any faults in it.
I guess I should rewatch it someday to understand why everybody hates it.
But yeah, I agree with the rest of your post. Owarimonogatari in general was great.
This year they were busy moving and stuff, and they released two movies and a recap besides Hibike.
I also never said they were creative, which wouldn't matter anyway because having less projects doesn't mean having less ideas, scheduling is what makes KyoAni's quality so consistent. Besides, they're probably one of the only studios that doesn't depend on being contracted to make shows, while other studios are given external material to adapt, how is that any more creative?
Anon, I was sure that not everything you said would be wrong. I was wrong to have placed any faith in you.
Like, everything you said was the opposite of what happened. Especially about the visuals. My favourite visual cue that I hate that they keep doing is replacing objects/people in a given scene with kanji. That is the lamest shit. I 'get' it, but visually, it's boring as fuck, and they keep doing it.
SS was better than Owari in every way.
At least for me, it was that fact that the pacing was just terrible and it was almost exclusively just half-hour long pretentious, repetitive dialogues between an edgy no-fun-allowed character and one who does best when she has other characters to riff off of. It just didn't work for me. It felt like Nisio genuinely thought he was deep instead of having fun with it. And to top it all off, Shaft really phoned it in on the visuals which is one of the most important parts of making monogatari work, or at least they did for broadcast, I didn't watch the BDs, so they might have been better. I'd almost be tempted to say the monogatari formula didn't really work with a small cast of characters since it's so focused on fun dialogues and characters interacting but Owari did a damn good job with a limited cast so it must just be that the chemistry didn't work in Hana, even though I like Kanbaru a lot normally. She was great in Owari.
It really isn't a joke anyway, I was never joking anyway. It has been obvious for some time that Shinbo "directs" nothing there in the conventional sense and just oversees the other directors. He even said as much in a Madoka interview way back. Nobody can do that much output in a year, a literal impossibility.
I'm not talking about character designers, you were talking about directors and specifically saying that all SHAFT directors were indistinguishable. I am telling you that if you can't notice the difference between their work on monogatari, the differences in which are quite frequently pointed out, you have no place in opining on the matter. You quite often see people noting how different Nisemonogatari on feels from Bakemonogatari. Why would that be? Switch of directors.
Not for sales, moron.
>Which company performed best in 2015?
JC Fucking Staff.
JC Staff literally cannot stop producing quality anime.
Here is oricon 2015 anime series BD+DVD sales.
That might have been it, since I actually enjoy pretentious dialogue a little.
What I really should do is a complete rewatch of the Monogatari series. I never rewatched anything and even now I don't remember how Araragi's and Shinobu's connection was broken.
Yeah, oricon great.
I am talking about the 2ch sales threads and the posters there that compile the data and have done in the same way since the data was compiled. Now please stop being so new.
Your wiki link is not 2ch and BD/DVD sales thread already separated from 2ch.
Also, do you forget Kyoani have Free! movie this year? are you saying it doesn't count because BD/DVD not released yet even it's getting box office number currently?
It isn't one person though. It is a fairly common opinion that monogatari changes after Bake. Even people who have no viewing sophistication what so ever tend to notice the shift.
>Your wiki link is not 2ch and BD/DVD sales thread already separated from 2ch.
What is your point supposed to be? The point of wikis like
were always to compile/store the sales data from the 2ch sales threads and they have never changed their way of doing it either in those threads whilst they were still there or now. Anime have always gone in the year of first release for the purposes of sales on these sites.
movie is far different than series. don't compare movie with series it's different world itself. The cost the number of sales, the profit the bd prices, etc. And free movie i heard was flopping.
I think it becomes a lot more clear what holds up and what doesn't once you already know what's going on. Bake holds up great no matter how many times you watch it, even if you know the story inside and out, because it's really a masterpiece in terms of integrating animation, dialogue, and storytelling. A lot of the others are much more hit and miss though, especially the ones which are much more heavy on the talking in circles and pretentious, intentionally obtuse dialogues. In particular whenever Gaen or Kagenui comes on screen you know you're in for an earful of meaningless talking in circles. I think Owari is one of the seasons that will work just as well a second time though, especially Ougi Formula, that arc is up there with some of the ones in Bake. Also Ougi's OP is the best since Staple Stable, it's too good.
The point is there is no "2ch sales threads" anymore since last year, they already separated from 2ch.
Also all your "sales data from 2ch" are oricon numbers.
Oricon say anything unless you can find numbers are not from Oricon(don't say sound scan, sound scan sales ranking was died at November, they're gone forever.)
■ initial rankings
|Initial mobilization|Theater number|cumulative| title
400,235,800 yen 251,811 people 121 Theaters 2.8 billion Love Live The School Idol Movie
400,003,600 yen 271,279 people 129 Theaters 2.08 billion Madoka Rebellion
316,310,450 yen 237,817 people 137 Theaters 1.9 billion K-ON!
198,177,700 yen 161,225 people * 64 Theaters 1.04 billion Ano Hana
171,622,400 yen 117,413 people * 43 Theaters * 560 million Madoka 2
149,876,900 yen * 81,262 people * 39 Theaters * 670 million The Idolmaster
138,563,400 yen * 91,957 people * 43 Theaters * 590 million Madoka 1
136,899,100 yen * 93,614 people 103 Theaters * 850 million Psycho Pass
130,479,900 yen * 73,716 person * 94 Theaters * 740 million Tiger and Bunny The Rising
128,438,980 yen * 84,752 people * 77 Theaters **. * Billion Girls Und Panzer
122,889,700 yen * 84,402 people * 50 Theaters * 550 million Nanoha A's
120,000,000 yen ***, *** people * 80 Theaters **. * one hundred million Yowamushi Pedal
117,803,100 yen * 81,772 people * 38 Theaters * 700 million Macross F Wings of Goodbye
117,654,900 yen * 73,413 person * 70 Theaters * 600 million Tiger and Bunny The Beginning
100,757,700 yen * 69,117 people * 30 Theaters * 500 000 000 Index Miracle of Endymion
* 89,010,100 yen * 60,306 people * 24 Theaters * 850 million Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya
There are some new one if you can update. The movie profits are different
>Shinobu Mail was handle very well
>the pacing wasn't complete trash
I am a Nisio fanboy but I am pretty sure that Hana and Shinobu Mail are some of his worst works ever written, followed by Sodachi Fiasco. Shinobu Mail especially has terrible pacing overall and I am pretty sure Shaft only able to improvised it by a small margin.
You are pointing out the obvious and it doesn't even conflict I am stating. You are arguing about nothing the 2ch sales threads have always done it the same way by year of first release and Japanese fans continue to classify sales in the same way now. What Oricon have done or say is completely irrelevant as if where the sales threads reside.
You're half right. The thing that upsets me about KyoAni is that they're such a talented studio, but they're not doing anything I care about. That's not a knock against them, but still.
Also, they have two art style 'lineages'; the K-On! clan, and the Hyouka house, which evolved from the Haruhi, and begat the KnK. Fuck any show in the K-On! clan.
I don't know, except for Gaen's part with the obtuse explanation about how the first servant came back to life and what it had to do with the shrine and the oddities, I enjoyed Shinobu Mail. Kanbaru was great in it and I thought the general plot was pretty engaging and interesting.
>still saying "2ch threads".
Besides, the japanese sales thread are trash-no pictures, filled with dumbass, still don't know how to estimated sales.
I rather go with baidu since they have a lot better sales data, or someanithing(other that his blindly CGI hate).
And lots of people can difference between KyoAni's "sameface" that's not really sameface. People noticing a shift in directing doesn't mean they directors aren't trying to copy Shinbo and failing to do it properly. People thinking KyoAni's faces are the same doesn't mean the designers don't have their individual styles while still being influenced by the others'.
The point is, differences and similarities are in the eye of the beholder. It's rare for something to be objectively identical, but people search for different key aspects for similarities and some might look at shape while others look at color.
2 KnK movies
(that's 1 season and 3 movies)
Tamako Love Story
Amagi Brilliant Park
(that's 3 seasons and 1 movie)
(that's 3 seasons and a movie)
Hyouka (2 cour)
(that's 3 seasons)
In the last years, KyoAni usually took 1 season off per year if you don't count movies. This is the first year since 2004 that has 3 seasons without a KyoAni show.
This is all irrelevant still. I don't know what special kind of autism causes you to feel you have to deny the fact of this matter though. Both of those wikis and the sales threads all run by Japanese fans have all done it in the same way since they began and still do now. Making me quite correct in my statement.
That chart pisses me off every time, and ti just gets worse the more people add to it. You have like three of their good shows and a bunch of mediocre LN adaptations from the last five years.
Differences in the way people try to imitate are differences, as I have said previously if you are unable to notice these differences where many people do you shouldn't be talking about direction.
>I'd rather use something that classifies things the way my autism says it should be!
Ok friend. You stick to your special snowflake method and I will stick to the way it has always been done.
It really is the worst. The only thing on that chart that's both good and from the last decade is toradora, everything else is either complete trash or old enough that it's not even relevant to the modern studio's work anymore.
Actually, the weekly sales thread always been done at each Tuesday is copy from chinese baidu with pictures.
Btw Dec 27 daily sales.
There is only 1 lineage due to them running their own animation school. Even K-ON and Hyouka are pretty similar with the absence of pink anime hair and the profile views look indistinguishable.
Yeah that is great and all but Japanese fans still continue to classify by year of first release the same way it has always been done.
What is your particular autism about this based upon anyway?
Is it because one particular show you like happens to look better in a year if it is classified as the year it finished in rather than the year it started in? I bet it is.
To be fair, if we talk about sales, Shirobako=2014 show.
But if we talk about the show itself, then it's 2015(just like Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso and some other 2014 fall 2 cour shows), so i don't think it's same person.
And that's standard from Japanese fans(like the "2ch 2014 top 50 anime" not included 2014 fall 2 cour shows but included 2013 fall 2 cour shows)
>using genre/studio name as an excuse to deny objectively good animation.
Its like you really are 12.
Shaft is my favorite studio. It would be a dream come true of they could successfully internalize them selves like Kyoani. To consistently produce well animated shows while keeping their own style and genres. As well as profit.
Calling people newfag won't make you old.
And what i'm saying is there will be a thread about 2ch 2015 top 50 anime at 3 days later, though i'm too lazy to create the thread, but i bet someone will.
>entirely missing the point of the post
>that damage control
I didn't say that any studio had only good animation.
Over the past few years Kyoanis animation has definitely not been getting worse. Some would argue that it has been getting better (I think it has) but it definitely has not been getting worse. I'm talking animation quality wise, not genre or choice of shows.
That consistency in quality came with them working within the studio. Something that most studios do, but not to the extent of Kyoani.
Of course they're always looks good. Their genre choice is a slice of life literally the genre where the animation is not necesity and you can get away most of the time by putting still image.
Are you trying to be retarded? Good and bad are relative. Modern KyoAni's worst animated show is still better than many or even most other studios best work. On the other hand Shaft is very hit and miss and it's extremely polarized. Whether they will animate a Madoka or a Mekaku City Actors is basically a coin flip. KyoAni is without a doubt the most consistently high quality studio in the industry today, and that isn't even up for debate. That doesn't mean everything they make is good in terms of content but from a standpoint of technical proficiency no one who knows anything would deny it.
yeah errybody knows only REAL animes for REAL manly men that are action packed like naruto and Attack on Titans should be taken as benchmarks for REAL sakuga amirite.
In all seriousness, KyoAni is held high for their animation because they pack their shows with movement when other studios would take SoL as an opportunity to cheap out and not bother using budget on character mannerisms and stuff. If it were easy to make even SoL shows look as good as KyoAni does, there wouldn't be so many shitty looking SoLs and harems out there. That said, KyoAni's recent shows have had a lot of technical value in animation. Hibike had hand-drawn animation for instruments that matched the music, and flawless instruments, even if brass instruments are a mess of tubes and highlights, KyoAni nailed it. Free! had very, very good looking swimming scenes and water animation. Those things are something no other studio has pulled off as flawlessly for a TV show. Phantom World, KnK, and Chuuni involve a lot of action (although we don't know about PW for certain yet). Hyouka had lots of surreal scenes or expository sequences that involved over the top animation. Nichijou is had a lot of action in its jokes and all of them were perfectly animated. These last two shows are considered by many people the best animated TV anime of all time. K-on and Tamako Market had lots of focus on character acting and details in mannerisms, and K-on had lots of silly scenes with lots of movement.
etc, etc, etc.
You need to be more precise when posting. you're confusing people and what this top 50 anime. You meant 2015 top 50 anime. Yea nobody cares about their criteria. they're just imageboard or textboard like 4chan.
No you're the one retarded. called me again when kyoani animating full packed action at least 2 cour continuously series like gundam, naruto and sort of and can do consistently good unlike a still image show like SOL .
The only one care is you nobody cares actually. we just care and like to shitpost and never care about the content classification because it come from the same qualified as shitposting board.
That's possibly the most retarded thing ever posted on this site. Hyouka is a primarily SoL high school series and it's probably the most beautifully and intricately animated TV anime of all time, period. The festival arc is a marvel of detail and atmosphere, the sheer amount of background work, life, and energy they pack into every scene is more animation-intensive than a heavy action sequence in most series. Again, anyone who knows anything wouldn't dispute it. It's actually a mark in KyoAni's favor that they can do so much even when they work primarily in a genre that doesn't have much room for flashy animation sequences and dramatic flourishes. Their use of lighting, camera effects, color, and subtle character acting are exceptional. You clearly know nothing about animation.
Eventhough it's packed more than your average still image sol. It's nothing to be proud about. And if you want to state the clip as something to be considered at least put where you got this. movie is far different than anime series. it's like comparing db super and the db movie itself.
>fighting scenes are the only real display of good animation
It's not a good excuse at all. Kill Me Baby and Nichijou are both comedies and both have watercolor backgrounds and simplistic cartoony character designs. A genre doesn't imply a certain degree of stills or animation, and KyoAni is known for filling their shows with movement and sakuga (note sakuga doesn't mean fight scenes) despite the genre. Chuu2 is a romcom, it still has better action scenes than some battle anime.
I don't have any Nichijou webms so this'll have to do.
Here's a video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug8ItuvZM7w
These are all from TV anime mate, thanks for proving the point that their TV anime look like movies.
No senpai, they aren't saying that Kyoani SoL look better than average SoL, they're saying that Kyoani SoL look better and are more actively animated than pretty much anything anyone else makes. It might be a good idea to get a firmer grasp on the English language before posting on an English imageboard.
Yeah you're just being an idiot newfag because in the end hyouka just a pretier unmoving background unlike fighting movement where you need consistently changing background and perspective. And even hyouka just a cherry picking.
Most shows, in all genres have very little movement the majority of the time.
Also, it's not as if Kyoukai no Kanata, The Second Raid or Nichijou are worth considering as a "slice of life" show for this discussion. Nichijou specifically has very dynamic animation.
Finally, when comparing SoL shows from other studios it becomes very noticeable that this isn't a very easy feat to do. I think only the first episode of Seitokai Yakuindomo S2 is a highschool show with a similarly noticeable high level of animation, but they couldn't keep that up of course due to resource organization.
I'd choose Madhouse, because they created Death Parade, OreMono, Overlord and OPM in the same year. That's great.
Otherwise, Shaft > PA > Kyoani. Still don't understand the casuals' obsessin with kyoani "quality" animation. Yeah, they can make eyecandies, but Shaft makes experiences.
Find an anime series with better animation than Nichijou in any genre and in any era including that Ghibli TV series. And for the love of everything holy don't say Ep 21 of Raxephon or Dennou Coil
I don't care, that only goes to prove that you're discussing about something you don't know about.
Someone clueless about animation like you shouldn't really talk about it. Also KnK and Chuuni have fair amount of action scenes and they have the basic quality most action anime need.
>nichijou is sol comedy with very bad visual
Hyouka arguably, but the point still stands.
I have watched some of it. it's always the same still image added some computer effect and nothing special. i already being humble most of the time though. if you want to keep denying it it's your problem though.
this is like comparing home grown tomatoes, home grow potatoes, and home roasted coffee
all 3 are the best there is and will ever be
but they are certainly very different and it doesn't make much sense to rank them
they all coexist sharing the top quite nicely
I think in term of skill ceiling, action animation's is much higher than character animation.
And most of the time, a good action animator is also a good character animator as well.
Go tell that to Disney's legendary animators. There's a reason why their best character animators are seen as one of the all-time greats. Good character involves more than just movement; the animator needs to make the character act, just like how a live-action performance would work.
To be honest action scenes are a director's job. No animator worth their time isn't going to be unable to fulfill a director's vision. Hirao used to be pretty good at directing action scenes in a way that doesn't overwhelm the viewer with beam spam but sucks dick now and there really isn't that much of a good action director on the field in Japan anymore.
But that's actually not true.
Conveying motion in action/Conveying emotion in characters are two completely different things. To say otherwise proves you know absolutely nothing about animation or drawing at all. You should stop posting immediately.
Of course I know that fact, anon. Please do understand that besides basic actions of any given characters, dynamic poses and movements are crucial in any animation, be it sol or action packed.
Name one good Japanese action animator who can't do character animation well.
And KyoAni's character animation isn't even that impressive.
They rely too much on symbolic acting.
They only guy at KyoAni who came close to be called a good character animator is Kigami.
It's funny that he's also the only person who can do passable action animation at KyoAni.
>Honestly can't take him seriously after Under the Reddit
As long as the action scenes are well-made, that project wouldn't do any harm to his reputation for crafting great action sequences.
I'm pretty sure Ishidate was decent in his pre director days. And them focusing on symbolic acting or as people call it body language is more of Yamada trait than a KyoAni overall direction.
If action animation is harder, then why are many of the best-regarded Japanese animators known for their character animation?
e.g. Osamu Tanabe, Toshiyuki Inoue, Hiroyuki Okiura, Takeshi Honda
It's not just the body language.
It's the predefined pattern of how a character moves or acts.
If you've seen one KyoAni show, you pretty much have seen all of their "patterns".
There's nothing new.
>e.g. Osamu Tanabe, Toshiyuki Inoue, Hiroyuki Okiura, Takeshi Honda
Because they happen to do like doing character animation more than action?
And let's not forget that all of them except for Tanabe started out as action animators.
I have never read something so wrong.
KyoAnus is successful in large part because they're one of the few studios that actually is able to effectively use animation itself as a venue of story telling.
And they're really really good at it.
Just double-checked and now I'm pretty sure it's Minion. The k, y, and f convinced me.
>And let's not forget that all of them except for Tanabe started out as action animators.
Not really, Inoue was already doing character animation way back and I'd describe Okiura as a mecha specialist in his early career.
What is the point of the "not similar to older shows" condition?
Kyoani only makes shows/adaptations of stuff they publish. Jc is constantly tasked with doing shows to advertise stuff. Also, doing more shows is not always a good thing. Silver link does 3 a season, and all 3 suffer for it.
And beside maybe the few Key shows they did, none of their works are at all very similar.
Unlike JC Staff, they can afford not to waste their time and efforts quickly pumping out loads of shit.
They take their time, care, and really put out something incredible.
The thing about the three studios in the OP is that they are all consistently the toppest of excellent.
No one's saying other studios don't make amazing shows or can't do wonderful beautiful work - But none of these three has ever made a not amazing/wonderful/beautiful work.
>Inoue was already doing character animation way back
>Okiura as a mecha specialist in his early career
He did all kind of action animation.
Actually he only animated mech in like 4 shows.
>And beside maybe the few Key shows they did, none of their works are at all very similar
I'm talking about the animation, how characters move, not the design.
>What is the point of the "not similar to older shows" condition?
Is it hard for you to follow a discussion?
They're still a relatively small studio so they don't have anough people to produce more things at a time. They put quality over quantity and this has proven successful for them so there's no need to lose their reputation of great animators just to publish more things quickly. That would also defeat the purpose of KyoAni, since its goal since it was founded was to make anime that doesn't look like shit.
not all kyoani anime is their IP like amagi and stuffs.
who cares about that both advertising and selling a lone do increase profit and paying montly wages.
not really their sales usually just mediocre for that low output.
One show, they animate a sword wielding girl, the other, some guys in a swim club, then they animate a large amount of people intricately playing brass instruments, then they animate mascots.
I think that's pretty diverse, animation wise.
>But none of these three has ever made a not amazing/wonderful/beautiful work.
Pls. I love them but whether or not they make something incredible or irredeemably shit is basically a coin flip. When they hit they hit hard, Bakemonogatari is basically a masterpiece in terms of the integration of animation and storytelling, but they've also made some pretty bad shit too. And you never know what will be which. No one would have thought a series as bad as Nisekoi would get so much love, but for whatever reason Shaft decided to put their all into it and singlehandedly redeemed a terrible source material into something extremely entertaining to watch. I'd say the only studio who can genuinely attest to always producing quality work is KyoAni.
It's not changing anything that their overal output is very low compared to jc staff. kyo ani 23 series + 2 ovas. jc staff 97 series + 6 ovas and many of them is double cour unlike kyo ani.
Way back in Gu Gu Ganmo. Even his work in Akira had acting bits.
>Actually he only animated mech in like 4 shows.
He was a regular on those few mecha anime though. Okiura did a lot of work on Layzner and Ziliion.
Realistic acting: https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/19477
Symbolic acting: https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/19278
KyoAni relies on the latter too much.
It's always the same "take" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=976x7-36MoM) and it's always the same "shaking" when talking.
These are what animators call "symbol".
Or mostly anything from the OVA, really. As recent as it can get. Here's a little bonus.
>who cares about that both advertising and selling a lone do increase profit and paying montly wages.
What? You asked why they'd made so few shows since 1998, and I'm just saying that part of that is because they weren't making shows until 2003.
Nichijou had a diffrent animation from Haruhi that has a different animation from Keion and Tamako Market that has a different animation from Lucky Star. Those are the glaringly different animation types in the KyoAni portfolio.
dude, anime as a whole depends "too much" on symbolic acting because of its stylized human designs. If anything, KyoAni still has a lot of realistic subtle acting and facial expressions.
>Way back in Gu Gu Ganmo. Even his work in Akira had acting bits.
Of course he have animated some of character acting, everyone does.
Still, most of his works in Ganmo that people remember are action.
I know, but doing one series this year isn't very indicative of their output.
As others have noted, they are a smaller studio with a mostly in-house staff. They are more financially independent than studios like A1 which are thrown money to create teams for a shit ton of projects, often resulting in more inconsistent animation. I don't know too much about JC but I assume they are one of the larger studios currently.
In animation, "realistic" have nothing to do with how exaggerate a character acts.
Disney animation is based on stage acting. Real people doesn't act like a Disney character but Disney's animation is still considered realistic.
Mitsuo Iso's animation is not symblic.
>this famous animator can do no wrong, anyone who dislikes his work is a pleb!
Utsunomiya is a great animator, but how can anyone like his utterly unappealing designs in beyond me. And this is coming from someone who likes Ohira's style.
Utsunomiya was really good at shape language while maintaining 3-dimensional form.
Not many designer can do this. They're either good at one of them and not both.
His Animator Expo looks ugly though.
I don't know where he picked up that shitty shadow shape from.
I guess what you're trying to say 'symbolic' as in they used a predetermined template of animation to portray certain emotion and gestures?
To me, as long as the animation drawn suits the needs of the scene, and portrays the intended message, then it's good by me. The example you posted, the shaking part, I feel is warranted in that scene, as she was holding back her tears until she was shaking, so it can be justified.
They much bigger than kyoani eventhough kyoani is 5 year older. everybody outsource jc staff output is astonishing seeing how many their release are and their experience in many genre.
Fuck, I swear Slayers wasn't that retarded when I saved it. Mediocre is one thing, but that's terrible. Fixed.
>Inoue: Talking of control, I for one find it a shame that every episode's art is too much unified. Being unified is a right thing for a commercial product, but animation is what a large group draw and everyone in the group has their own ideal and aesthetic sense. While I'm impressed, their perfectly coordinated performance makes me want them to ooze each episode staff's characteristics. Their motions concerns me, too. Their acting has a symbolic side.
>Interviewer: The readers might not get the meaning of symbolic. It means characters move in patterns.
>Inoue: That's it. They desperately often use the pattern of a preliminary action and a back-swaying like I said. I also notice their pattern of swinging hair after the body moves. It certainly gives a feel of careful animation, but it seems everyone aims for such animation. I feel a little uneasy at that. It would improve their animation more if they add more the patterns' variations or bring something like a real human's vividness into a character's acting.
>By pattern motions or symbolic motions, I'm not only referring to KyoAni, but the anime industry as a whole including myself. Even within the whole anime industry, few people can bring vividness into acting. Although their works as commercial products are amazing as they are, but it can be possible to bring vividness into works without interfering them. I think KyoAni is able to do it now.
I agreed with Inoue.
>the amount of sheer retardation in this thread.
I mean, I know this is /a/. But this is /b/ tier shit posting. The worst part is people actually believe the shit that they post.
Kyoani is not my favorite studio. But its an undeniable fact that they do produce top quality animation consistently. That's really all there is, get over it. Watch your favorite shows from your favorite studios. There's nothing to argue.
Those aren't the standard sales, those pretty much the megahits of anime movie adaptations. Come on, when your list ends with fucking Disappearance there's no way that it represents the average.
>but its an undeniable fact that they do produce top quality animation consistently.
amagi and tamaflop being mediocre proves you wrong. hibikek was also nothing noteworthy in terms of visuals.
There's literally no reason to tell you how wrong you are again, but you are completely wrong.
Hibike in particular was impressive for rendering instruments more accurately than probably any other animation ever has, and in a seasonal anime to boot.
Is KyoAni the only studio who put this much effort into researching?
I mean, I honestly don't think their instruments being faithfully done is that good of a use of time/talent myself, but I'm not going to shitpost and say that it's not top-tier technical work.
So is symbolic acting the proper terminology for Japanese emoji expression acting? Such as looking downward with the eyes shaded over to represent gloom or frustration, which if you're overly accustomed to anime you may forget humans are incapable of making their eyes disappear. Or eyes swirling around to indicate they're about to cry. Sweat droplets appearing. >_< etc.
In drawing, it's called symbols too, or stylized.
I'm not sure about 'realistic' vs 'symbolic' acting expression is commonly used in the animation industry though, since I'm not that well versed in animation, I only draw.
It is moderately successful, but the producers probably expected more.
I just checked, it's still #9 in the fourth week, so the numbers will increase.
(Youkai Watch > Star Wars for the second week makes me smile)
The GirlsDeMo scenes in Angel Beats were made by copying live musicians with CGI then drawing over the crude models for the finished product. I assume Kyoani must have done the same thing for Euphonium. You know for a fact they have high-poly CGI instrument resources because you see them blatantly in the OP. Haruchika will probably be on par but how big a part is music in it? I'm reading that it's mystery genre. Anyways, the moral of the story is P.A. Works already accomplished the same technical feat as Euphonium at a smaller scope 5 years ago.
Euphonium did not trace over actual musicians, though they certainly used actual musicians as reference material when doing their animation.
That said, Euphonium also rendered metal instruments extremely well and in a way that Haruchika will not surpass. The PV made that blatantly clear.
>all these frick'n kiddos who've watched anime for barely 2 or 3 years are talking shit about Kyoani and/or shaft
And things will get only worse in 2016
I teach ESL, friend.
Let me see if I can help decipher that abomination of a post.
>i don't watch charlote neither i know what yka is.
The fun part is that this can have two different meanings, but since the grammar is so bad, no one can tell which one is the correct one.
>I didn't watch Charlotte, and I don't know what YKA is.
>I didn't watch Charlotte either, but I know what YKA is.
That post can mean either of those two things.
>tfw ESL students embody the worst qualities of teenagers, no matter their age
That unshakable confidence paired with the all but nonexistent knowledge is funny sometimes, but it's mostly just aggravating.
I couldn't find any clips on youtube but I recall it having the camera circling the stage, foreground and background, characters dancing around on the stage and lip syncing, all the instrument playing being viewable in the same shot. It probably is in fact more challenging.
Watching the Eupho clip again and I'm noticing you only see 1 person's fingers in any given shot practically the entire time. Everyone in the background's fingers are just out of frame. So the "entire concert band playing in synchronization" thing I hear isn't actually true. But that does make it plausible they didn't need to CGI the fingers.
These girls are totally CGI though.
>Doubling down on the retardation so you can claim you were trolling
This something I notice with Yamada's stroyboards actually. For example see the ED's of the second season of K-On!:
You'll notice that mugi is using an organ with with a Top, as opposed to her stardand flat organ. This allows her to hide her hands, skipping the incredibly difficult piano animation. Further, in both clips, you see Mio hiding her mouth behind the mic, once again dodging the problem of lip syncing. The guitar strumming also hidden quite a few times below frame.
Not that there's a lack of nice animation going on, mind. ED1 has a full lip sync sequence. And I'm guessing that the amazing OP2 ate up a huge part of the budget, which resulted in Mio pretty much giving the mic a blowjob. It's an art really, hiding low quality/budget parts and emphasizing the money shots, that Yamada does pretty well.
I didn't want to ramble in my posts too much but I was originally going to say all anime needs to cut corners somehow in order to produce 4.5 hours of drawings. Kyoani found an artistically appealing method that involves soap opera extreme closeups so they don't need to bother too much with the background or clothing/posture/hands at times. Yamada doesn't do the soap opera-y thing as frequently so I prefer her directing style but it's true she can't draw hands to save her life. K-ON season 1 had some pretty good lip syncing though.
Their shows looking nice isn't really all that valuable when that's the only thing they've got going for them.
At this point I'd rather watch some disgusting flash animation than KyoAnis latest attempt to put me to sleep.
Which is sad.
K-On!'s lip sync, when they don't hide the mouth, looks really great.
Yamada doesn't play music and it shows in her works.
Instead of doing something she's not familiar with, it's better to just not show it.
Compare that to a work of a Yamakan who was a musician and you can see a huge difference. Live Alive is full of soul. The animation in K-on! was great but it's nothing like God Knows.
Small gestures like the way Haruhi turns to look at Nagato just before the solo is what make an animation so believable.
SS only has one inconsistent arc: shinobu mail (which was still good overall). The rest are fucking great so SS is a personal 10 for me.
People also critics Mayoi Jiangshi, but i loved the hell out of that arc because it was completely unexpected and the adult shinobu scene was fantastic. LNfags complained about the pacing, but the arc that was put in front of me felt complete and well done so I don't care
>trying hard making kyoAni/SHAFT vs PA works happens.
I can see what you mean. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that Yamada has more experience being a high school girl than Yamakan, which also shows.
Noriko Takao is not visible in that pic.
I never understood why trying to make your show not flop is a bad thing. I always see people make fun of/complain about X studio releasing event tickets or bonus goodies with BDs and things like that. Would you rather not do anything about it and let your series do badly?
Henneko was amazing aswell, I don't know what you're talking about anon
Shaft and Production I.G are the only studios other than Ghibli to get considered and that was only last year. The Academy has historically not given a shit about anime outside of the Disney-sanctioned Ghibli.
Hibike recap movie
Koe no Katachi movie
Based on Kyoani's previous schedule, a show would air in Summer. Kyoani could do something in Spring too since Hibike movie is just a recap of S1.
The selection committee isn't going to watch every turtlenecked film student's wankjob that got played in the smugma arthouse circuit because the "director" slept with the nonshowering bearded owners. There are shortlists for every category that the selection committee is expected to critically watch and carefully consider.
There is a political element that big names play, so the animated feature shortlist is usually just every major US release and anything Ghibli put out that year. The other major categories actually require high critical acclaim.
Hollywood intellectuals are trying to move away from using such blatant post-WW2 Christian eurocentrism in their critical analyses. They'd probably try to put it in cultural context instead of instantly dismissing it due to conditioned repugnance.
>shortlists for every category that the selection committee is expected to critically watch and carefully consider
This hasn't been true for quite some time now. They just vote for whatever based on hearsays. This is especially true for animation. Just white old guys in suits voting what they think is best for the image of the Oscars.
So what's the cultural context behind this scene?
A crushing rejectionist defeat of their traditional masculine militaristic culture at the hands of the United States created a widespread stagnated child culture that has become warped into frustrated male obsessions with an early adolescent awakening into sexuality (fifty odd high school ecchi romcoms/romdrams every year), hypersexualized "adult situations" (female adult characters having exaggerated secondary sexual characteristics) and bizarre fetishes (Japan in general).
This year? Not sure if anyone made that list. Just search sites like MAL or someanithing for more details. Usually a summary is done by someone at the end of the year, so there might be someone who has done it
Because JC Staff is garbage? Their adaptations either straw away too much from the original, and in a bad way, or are dullishly copy pasted colored panels from the manga they're adapting.
If J.C.Staff were half its size and you took all the flops out of their library, they'd be top tier. They operate via the "even a blind hog finds a nut once in a while" method.
KyoAni is anything but politically correct. They just don't whore out their characters as often as SHAFT or JC Staff.
Dogakobo literally crashed into pieces this year, with those disasters called Mikagura and Aria SS. Those QUALITY fest was quite horrible, which is even painful when you think that they used to be called to be a Kyoani challenger
PA Works is doing fine, and growing quite quickly in me these years. Charlotte was, well, somewhat disappointing but let's just hope they find a better writer next time