Is the heroism he speaks of really an ideal worth pursuing?
Well, yes. The world is infinitely better for having someone like Shirou in it. I mean, we need someone to be the hero, and heroes are always needed.
When it comes down to it, it's impossible to argue otherwise.
I see what they were getting at, but since Fate's anime/manga retell the EXACT SAME STORIES as its VNs, just in less detail due to time constraints, it's utterly impossible to try and separate its media into different parts. It has several anime. It has several manga. It's anime and manga.
Have a Shiki.
It also just doesn't stay in one medium. We have LNs, VNs, anime, manga, and video games of several genres. Type-Moon discussion is simply unable to really conform to the board divisions.
Because she's homeless and living in the back alleys.
A while back someone suggested just turning the Fate/Grand Order general on /vg/ into just a Type-Moon general. It wasn't very well received and I still think it's a bad idea, but it's been suggested.
Sure. Ultimately, he can't really do more harm than good, and as long as he's around, damage will be kept to a minimum so long as it's within his power to do so. He's completely insane for doing what he does, but it's not as if we can blame him for it. After all, we'd be the ones who'd benefit the most from his actions.
>threads are 90% Fate only
>all of them has either a saber, rin or Illya OP pic
How is that any different from the way things are already?
>Our hesitation proved fatal. A single attack unleashed by the Usurper vaporized the others and deprived me of the power to fight. It was a devourer of holy swords, a darkness that grew thicker the holier its adversary. Galatine lost its brilliance to it. Excalibur’s too was reduced to the glow of a weak bonfire. And amongst all this,
>“You did well solar knight, hardy Gawain. Behold, it appears your light was too much for him to stomach.”
>The King grinned my way, saying that the Usurper couldn’t swallow the light of Excalibur because it took in Galatine’s, and sprung to engage the dragon by himself.
>No, what happened was the opposite. I narrowly escaped death because the King was quick to come to my aid. His holy sword lost its radiance because of my own failure.
How can anyone call a King so considerate of her men to be inhuman?
Because having this happening on a board's scale will just makes me sad.
>all masters are Saber
>all servants are Saber
>the Holy Church is all Sabers
>you will become a Saber
This is the only future Takeuchi will permit. Just accept it.
>"Originally, Excalibur and other things that surpass human limits, divine constructs cannot be projected. For argument's sake even if it were possible, that person is not the user and therefore cannot release the true name. However, the previous Ilya did just that, weakened as it was, its output still exceeded that of the original."
What the hell does this even mean? It's not possible except it is?
>the Saber will then begin spread to other series
>the universe becomes Saber
Yeah, but usually, there's some long-winded explanation for why something that's impossible is impossible in limited instances.
Here, it literally just says that Ilya used an "advanced exploit" and leaves it at that, not even bothering to explain it. Nor does it explain why Ilya's projected Excalibur managed to surpass the real one even though projected Noble Phantasms should be a rank lower than the original.
This isn't Nasu's doing though. It's from Prisma Ilya.
This profile for the Archer Class Card claims that Excalibur can't be projected, and even if it could, it can't be used because she's not the true user, and yet through an "advanced exploit" that he's not bothering to explain, she can not only create an Excalibur, but an Excalibur that's BETTER than the original Excalibur.
Here's the thing. I get that it's non-canon to Nasu's universe. Fine. That's acceptable.
But at the very least, it should be consistent with its OWN INTERNAL RULES. You can't just go "Oh, yeah, this can't happen, except in this one case where it can" and not explain the conditions that make that one case special.
Nasu needs to keep Saber being the most special, but has created some characters that should be able to be as special, so then he needs to make up rules for them not to be too special, but at the same time, as their story develops it becomes pretty evident that the abilities they were given should make them be that special, so plot demands the rules to be broken, then Nasu needs to make an amendment and say that under particular circumstances those characters can be an exception, but that they naturally aren't that special.
As far as headcanon goes, I can say that Ilya's Excalibur was more real that Card's one, because she projected it from memories of EMIYA who saw Saber's use of it, and Card's guardian is just an imitation of the real thing. Besides, Ilya's special condition allows her to create miracles, so there is that too.
Prisma doesn't happen in the same timeline as F/SN, which makes it an alltogether different story, but it is still a part of the Nasuverse.
If they chose to include Nasu's rules and a portion of his lore, then they should follow those.
I only said for the most part, it can be enjoyable when it's not wasting time with shoving prepubescent lesbian schoolgirls on my face
I mean there's already Rin, Luvia, Iri, the maids and Bazett for potential fanservice, so they oughta stop wasting time with the kid's meal
The text in question:
>David: Abishag! Is that you!? Pretty lady, you must surely be Abishag!
>David: Ah, who would have thought we would meet again as Servants! My fortunes are fantastic, as always!
>David: Come, warm my chilly body. Just like you used to. Come, don’t be shy.
>Santa Alter: You are mistaken, King David. I am Santa Alter, not Abishag.
>David: ? Your beauty means that you must be Abishag. Ah, do you not recognize me in my youthful form?
>David: You were my wife in my old age. Not to worry, my heart is still wholesome.
>David: I swear to you that whether in my shepard days, my reign as a king, or in my final years, my spirit is as stout as ever!
This event is full of gems like this:
>Santa Alter: For an assassin who loses her nerve right in front of her mark, this is a lucky charm to help you complete your job with elegance.
>Jing Ke: Hohahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
>Jing Ke: Splendid! This goateed gentleman is lovely! Ah, I just came a little. My heart skipped a beat.
>Jing Ke: I’m going to assassinate this man!!! He’s got a face that makes me want to drive a dagger right through his back!
>1. Actually, someone already got to him...
But the Archer's part was the best, yeah.
>Rin, Luvia, Iri, the maids and Bazett for potential fanservice
Does are fine as they are, don't take one of few loli fanservice shows from me!
my complaining won't take anything away, be secure in that
I just find that things like seeing the Emiya family happy is much more of a gift to the fans than having Illya sexualized
It's something that is bad when taken to an extreme. We shouldn't have a martyr who devotes their entire life to helping people. Helping people in itself is not wrong, but not living a life other than that or outright refusing to make time for yourself to accommodate that is wrong. The sticking point is that self-denial to fit that lifestyle can lead to awful happenings. And a person who has too much fervor can be used by someone suitably manipulative.
Moreover, a person who does that above all else is usually a person who devalues themselves, like Shirou does. Which is more often to the detriment of the feelings of the people around them that care for them.
The world would be a better place if people just helped out more, to the point where the term "hero" isn't lauded as much because it'd be common enough to find someone to help all around you.
How come prismaverse Ilya doesn't care that it's incest?
Do imoutos EVER care about this in animu?
Sorry you are so jealous of this glorious pair. I know, it hurts.
I still don't know what exactly his concept of justice is suppose to be.
I pick that shirt. I'll always pick that shirt.
Since he's not completely selfless, he wanted to see people who were saved and happy.
One of the things he says in UBW is that as a Counter Guardian although he knows people were saved by his actions, he never got to see anyone made happy by them. He never directly saved anyone.
Shirou believes as he does because he thinks it's beautiful to save people, but as a CG all he did and saw was killing.
That which is not dead can forever lie.
The cards were gathering magical energy, but we have no idea how much was gathered. They never really explained how strong the cards were compared to a normal summoning.
Ilya was also said to be breaking rules because of the grail.
Only if you're a crazy bitch who doesn't give half s shit about yourself and is deaf to any advice directed to you.
According to this VN, it is OK to follow a road leading to a bottomless cliff as long as the scenario around it is beautiful.
Which is something that really doesn't pay off IMHO.
People LOVE to pander this VN for deconstruction heroism but in the end the MC actions pretty much invalidates all the thought process put throughout the story. (This is valid to UBW). Beauty by itself doesn't pay off for eternal damnation. It was very hard to swallow the ending of UBW to me.
>getting to save people even after your death
I would sell my testicles if it meant I get to kill terrorists in my afterlife
>Only if you're a
That's the point. Fate never suggests anyone could or should be like Shirou. Every single character (even himself) tells him not to do it.
But at the same time, nobody can say that what he is doing and what he wants to do isn't beautiful, noble, and even right/good.
Shirou is a man who although he could live a happy life (as demonstrated by all the SoL and cooking scenes that people ignore and complain about) he will never allow himself to do so; he will never feel truly content with a life that is merely happy.
Shirou is absolutely beautiful to contemplate, a hero and inspiration to all. An ideal everyone feels they could reach if only they were as selfless as he is, which of course no one is.
What makes it so great and beautiful is that he isn't admirable for his intellect, strength, or talent; it isn't innate goodness and kindness that makes him admirable, but a mindset he adopted.
What is enchanting about him is his dedication to perform things he feels are good. He isn't like Kiritsugu, who dreams of a perfect world. He just wants to see and do good things for the sake of the action itself being good, even if it won't matter or make a difference.
Above all the greatest beauty is that he lived his entire life doing what he thought was right, and when everything went wrong he didn't regret a single thing, because he knew it had been the right thing to do.
Even Archer would once again choose to become a Counter Guardian if presented with that situation. As much as he hates everything he did after, as much as he says he regrets becoming a Counter Guardian; at that moment, if presented with the choice between letting those people die or damning himself, he would once again sacrifice himself.
That the ending will be sad does not mean it was not worth following that path. There were things that matter mattered much more to Shirou than his own happiness. A beautiful ideal he chose himself.
And remember, there can be no bravery
The aspescts you described here have been presented in many other works in the past. During this route the writer pretty much exposed the dark side of things, but in the end, he had the character act pretty much the same way most characters would do, by choosing to white knight everything in his path while acknowledging all contradictions. And this upsets me. Whereas Fate Shirou does what he does without having a deep understanding of his own intentions, here he knows all the shit beforehand and goes on without intending to do anything to circumvent that. If that's bravery or stupidness it's up to you to decide, but I myself wouldn't spend my entire life, for example, doing a course in a college if I could NEVER get a degree. Why not act differently? This is the reason HF is the most bearable route for me. And also the same reason UBW!Shirou appeals to me the least.
You seem to think that UBW!Shirou's resolution is to replicate Archer's path and arrive at the same destination.
Meanwhile, the story suggests that his ideals are not as naive as before, having been forced to acknoweldge their flaws and contradictions. Also, the ending is uncertain, yet hopeful.
And if we wanna get down the simplest of logic: Having interacted with his alternative future self to such an extent, learning about a possible future, the knoweldge of that will obviously influence his own judgement and thus make it less likely that the outcome would be the same.
The presence of Rin is also important, in the aspect that she acts as reminder to him of what it like someone who chooses put in the work for their goals, but do so because there is genuinely a desire to do it, and the capacity to have pride in it, too.
The circumstances are just too different
I don't think he is going to do things 100% the way Archer did (the biggest difference I believe is that he wouldn't make a deal, at least not with Alaya, I think...), but all the saving and the rest of his mentality is what frustrates me.
Since he changed his mindset the most during HF, that version of him came out as the most balanced IMHO.
HF gives a proper conclusion to his character too and no one could say that it is a mistake to choose personal happiness/loved ones over idealism/the greater good
But at the same time, the opposite holds. They're both valid answers. Only a minority of individuals in society can prioritize things like honor and justice before their own well-being and safety, and while they may not be normal, no one could denounce them, as their own selflessness benefits others.
He lacks focus on results and is more concerned about procedure (i.e. trying to save everyone). So realistically speaking, he'd die early without accomplishing anything. Like when he shouted at Gilgamesh as he was about to kill Illya. Or when he was heading in to face Caster after Archer just saved his ass.
This is just a measure taken not to kill him early, but I think there should be a Bad End there. If any other character did that to Gil, they would've been destroyed on the spot.