Cornucopia of Resources / Guide (read Guide before asking questions):
Persistence is the key to success. You CAN learn Japanese!
I would never remember the current existing DOJG deck to anyone, because as it stands the format will hurt and turn away a lot more people than it helps (due to exposure + recall layouts, but no actual recognition layouts), so I consider a hack-job for proper recognition to be superior to the existing well-made deck.
Reminder that you can't learn Japanese.
I'm feeling pretty good, this game's opening started with a poem of sorts by 日夏 耿之介 I believe, it was really fucking hard and I didn't understand any of it, but the main game's text is a lot more readonable and I can really understand what's going on, so my confidence has received a boost, since I considered these games (rail-soft in general) to be the final boss of Japanese. Yet here I am, reading them and understanding, albeit poorly. As you can see in pic related, at the very least, it's currently not too excessively hard.
This fills me with hope. Impossible strength...
The "poem" for those wondering, I know it's only hard because I suck but it's nevertheless harder than the rest of the game I've read (not much yet, just 30 some minutes).
Are you a bad enough dude to read pic related?
You are the same guy from the other threads, clearly. Sorry but your "fixed" deck is worse than the current deck, which works perfectly on both desktop and ankidroid. There is always the one or two loud anons who insist their way is right, despite your problems only being brought up by yourself ans that is about it.
What is with your persistence when plenty of beginners already use it without these game breaking problems?
The deck already has proper recognition and cloze/recall cards. You don't understand the deck.
Remember! No matter how awkward and ugly you are, as long as your white, you can get a Japanese gf! Just learn Japanese and move to Japan and there will be a gf all for you!
I did not give any indication that I was a separate person, nor did I pretend to be.
I do think my way is "right", obviously, otherwise I wouldn't believe it. I recognize that you and others disagree, which is why I changed the format myself and am not trying to get the main team(?) to change the main deck. This is a personal problem, so I personally solved it. Where do you take issue with this?
Thanks for sharing your experience. The image you linked me to certainly seems a lot easier than the standard narration that rail-soft features.
Apparently I'm going to need to study hiroshima-ben exclusively for one of the Senshinkan characters. And I've only really mounted the beginning of the world of chuu2ge with stuff like Fortissimo.
Stuff like this just depresses me at the moment. It'll definitely be possible ... eventually?
As far as I can tell, once you "know" all Japanese, learning an accent is as simple as memorizing a bunch of minor differences, it isn't that hard I think. Hiroshima ben even has an ENGLISH guide written by a decades experienced speaker, so even better.
someone post that screenshot of the Japanese girl with the shit eating grin saying "just because you are a foreigner doesn't mean Japanese girls will be attracted to you" or something, because I can't find it right now
If you want radicals, download the kanjidamage or RTK anki decks.
Not only does Wanikana charge you for things you can get for free, it artificially limits your progress (bad by itself; you should be in control of how fast you progress) so that it can squeeze more money out of you (even worse). Stop giving them money.
The only form of Wanikani that is acceptable is using an illegally ripped Anki deck of Wanikani.
I tried using Memrise once. It wanted me to type in the answer and there was no way to turn it off. What a waste of time.
Luckily there is an Anki addon that will download a Memrise course and turn it into an Anki deck. The deck was still shit though, because there aren't any good German decks. Japanese learners are spoiled.
Do it in Japanese.
What are some unexpected discoveries you've made with concepts in Japanese? Share your experiences with me, DJT!
So in some anime and manga I've noticed that men sometimes say ぜ and ぞ instead of ね and よ, at least that's what I assume they're doing. How common is this actually? Is this more of a fictional thing or do men actually talk like that in Japan a lot?
>What is with your persistence when plenty of beginners already use it without these game breaking problems?
Pretty much everyone who used the old DOJG deck changed the format by copying a fixed one off a pastebin.
Beginner reporting, I started studying kanji a week ago with the 2k-6k core deck and grammar with Tae Kim. I'm also building my deck comprising reverse cards for both recognition and production. Do you have any advice for me, such as something else to do or pointing out if I'm doing something wrong?
Yes, most men in Japan talk like that. ね and よ are rather feminine. You should work on including ぜ and ぞ Iin your speech patterns if you want to avoid getting laughed at when you visit Japan.
It pleases me greatly to see all the people in the last thread like >>134774219 reading fureraba. I hope you enjoy the weeks ahead of fun, romance, excitement, love and deep, passionate sex (one of the seiyuus is so amazing at h-scenes I chose my last vn by clicking a random one in her list on vndb (I found out later she was just a side character in that vn and had no sex scenes)).
I'm reading someone's translation of 賭ケグルイ at the moment and comparing it to the japanese copy I just bought. In the physical manga the character says "ボンボンの馬鹿娘がッ。。。ナメやがって。。。" This translator has changed that to "That bitch... she's looking down on me" Can someone help me understand?
I think to rip the site completely you need to unlock everything on it, so unless anyone here has everything unlocked and is willing to go through that trouble, I don't know if that'll happen.
I'm back to studying after a 3ish month break. I'm far behind and I probably wasnt even as advanced as some of you smart cookies would be with equal study time, but I know it'll be fine if I keep pushing! I just wanted to tell you that, /djt/.
>I'm currently enrolling in college and want to (maybe) major in a foreign language
Just finished Mayuri's route. It was really good, probably 2nd best after Yui's. I felt like I was only halfway through the route when it ended though for some reason. Maybe that incomplete feeling is why they made the Mayuri-only game to continue her route. I may be biased but I think Mayuri's route should be saved for last for more impact.
Now I have 2 weeks to finish Suzuno. I'm excited to find out what is actually going on.
I've been studying N1 vocab for 4 months now and just realized that N1 was not the most basic vocabulary, on the contrary, it is the hardest vocabulary.
God dammit Japan, don't you understand the leveling system? You start at level 1 and go up in levels, not the reverse.
I have a few jap friends on steam and such, I would like asking them for help when I don't understand something but it's always from shitty visual novels or hentai and that would be embarrassing, also asking it on /int/ would dishonor my flag so I always have to come back to djt.
But what if I get to the point where djt just can't answer anymore?
I have trouble telling 日本 and 本日 apart at first sight.
Say, I'm reading through a newspaper article and start thinking the wrong word at first and have to fix it after that.
Is there anything I can do to improve?
ohh shit nigger, compelling content is coming soon
I've read a lot of doujinshi and manga, a few VNs, and completed a couple of games in japanese but now it feels like I've kind of hit a wall and I'm not learning new vocab at all. I've been trying to keep Anki time to a minimum and as such have only used it for RTK so far, but now it feels like i have to start a mining deck if I want to keep improving.
Any tips on how to start mining? Any way to import definitions and example sentences automatically? Any nice formatting template?
Your radar is extremely malfunctioning, fagdroid
Good taste friend, I agree with everything you said. I'm hype for the spin-off game, I hear it's really good.
Mayuri's route spoilers:
I can't believe you guessed about shou's dad so accurately, was it really that clear from Sakurako's route? Did knowing that change how you felt about Mayuri's personality change? It took me completely by surprise, I thought she actually felt that way.
If you only read mangas or VNs that talk about the same kind of characters in the same kind of story, of course you won't lean any new vocabulary. You have manga about cooking, sports, even alpinism... why not searching for other kinds of contents?
The issue isn't finding new words, the issue is the new words I come across aren't used regularly enough for me to pick them up naturally just by reading
本日 has a more formal nuance
The jap general on /int/ is actually very friendly about helping people get help with the language.
Just don't call them jap even if you're just shortening it. They don't like it. Also it gets very political heavy
Ah, I see. Maybe also writing them can help? It needs even more concentration and maybe that's what you'd need a little more. I know I don't even read all the words in a sentence when I have an idea of what that means. I'm in such a need to read what follows that I don't really concentrate on each word, only on the mental image of what is happening
Actually I did start writing down words in a neat list while playing a game a couple weeks ago, and somehow managed to retain every word I wrote down. Maybe I should just keep doing that, I can't really be assed to make a nice Anki deck
Well if it works for you, maybe you should effectively keep on doing that. Plus you'll get better at writing faster than if you didn't. As someone who has always much more focused on reading and speaking and who is regretting that now, I can only encourage you.
The DoJG deck has been updated and now all key and example sentences are marked with their initial letter. Thanks to another anon pointing out the excess styling I've removed the redundant rule lines and tightened the gap between the rear sentences and concept note image.
The last 50 or so cards worth of example had to be completely rearranged to match the volume so when importing there may be issues. I don't know. Maybe not.
The biggest part is left, converting note image to text. Were there any other overlooked things before looking at the next step?
>Having trouble with a sentence
>read it over and over for nearly five minutes
>Suddenly it all clicks into place perfectly
>tfw learning more everyday
Japanese expert James Richter is said to have studied the language for over 30 years since 25. He still can only converse with natives in broken Japanese with a lot of hesitation. This is due to Japanese being a high context culture, which means outsiders need a lot of direct communication over several years with natives even after "learning" the language in order to converse comfortably, the fact there are over 5000 kanji in Japanese that one has to know how to write and read, and the unfamiliarity of Japanese for non-Chinese speakers. In fact, on the Gravitch scale of language learning difficulty for a native English speaker, French and Spanish are set to 1.2, Chinese to 6, and Japanese to 9.5.
The best option is to give up and spend your time on less vain activities.
>Speaking like a native
Does anybody seriously even want this? What's even the point of sounding like a native? It's not as if you're going to be able to fool anybody into thinking you're a nip.
You can still sound like an educated foreigner, though. Some of the most articulate, most charismatic English speakers that I've ever met have been obvious ESLs from the orient and the middle east.
Expand your vocabulary like a motherfucker, wrap your head around Japanese grammar, be vain about your pronunciation and get rid of the most extreme parts of your English accent that might make you hard to listen to, and learn natural sentence structure and word choice. If you work hard, you'll get good enough that your intelligence and personality will convey themselves fully. Learning Japanese as an adult isn't a sentence to forever sound like the Japanese equivalent of "Yuu want pok fraid rais and pok damprin'g? Our pok dumprin'g r reary gud." Actually, the fact that you're reading and listening a lot (right?) is probably doing a very good job at prepping your mind to get past that stage very quickly should you ever start engaging in lots of output.
Okay, I can't take it anymore. I don't understand. This burning question of mine has been sparkly lingering for months now, and is consuming me:
Why are all your images named "imouto.jpg"? Are they simply automatically renamed, like in some dollchan forks or do you have the obsession of saving all those Ichigo Mashimaro images in individual folders, one by one?
Or maybe you name the image imouto.jpg, post it and then discard it, erasing it only to replace it by a new, fresh imouto.jpg, which, too, is destined to be left befind? The age of the throwaway imouto image, where they don't even have their own name anymore - The ultimate disrespect to your image files.
That reminds me: Who actually read the Anki FAQ or Vermeer's Anki Essentials?
It's not a non-sequitur. He's claiming that he won't sound like a foreigner at all.
He is likely very delusional, though. Foreign adult learners pretty much always have at least a slight accent, and that's with languages that are close, like an Italian who speaks English as a second language.
If you're doing anki and you see a word like "生かす" and you go "oh yeah that means to make the best use of", and then you click show to find that the back of the card says "to let live / keep alive", if you were aware that it meant that too but that's not the meaning you thought of at the time, do you do the card again or just say good?
What do the little numbers over the answer buttons in Anki mean? I assumed that "2.0 mo" would mean I'll see the card again after two months but I'm seeing the same cards much more often than that.
Threadly reminder that that's just a myth.
The brain is plastic basically throughout all your life. Even old fucks that are said to be "too old to learn new habits" CAN LEARN, they just don't want to, even although they could want.
You, too, can learn. Persistence is the key to success.
To get a layman introduction to brain plasticity, you could listen to this Brain Science Podcast episode: http://brainsciencepodcast.com/bsp/2015/bsp-116-doidge
>tfw I'm going to move to Japan to become a gravure idol and get my boipucci impregnated by a Yakuza.
You need to use Send to Kindle to add the parsing metadata, there's no other way. Did you grab them from the CoR? All the text LNs found on Nyaa are converted correctly already.
>been studying Japanese on and off for 5 years
>took a basic Japanese class 2 years ago
>still couldn't understand shit
>almost gave up
>visited DJT 3 months ago
>followed the guide
>now I can read some easy VN and games
>for the first time I can actually use my Japanese skill to do something
Sorry for blogging but thanks you guys.
I got the MOBI ones from here
When I tap and hold on the word it just highlights the hold clause and I have to manually bring it down to the word I want to look up.
Yes. I expected much more though, at least 20k, seeing as people in the last thread were disappointed if they got under 25,000.
I know the test is approximated rubbish but damn..
You know I always thought I had a huge fucking vocabulary since I never stopped reading since I was a kid but it turns out I was just guessing at the meanings of many of the words I came across. Learning Japanese has influenced me such that I look up words when reading now. Pretty strange huh?
I know you're baiting, but I actually did this in a roundabout way. I fell into a habit of reading 1 entry from DOBJG every morning. Before I knew it, I'd finished the whole book.
I wasn't a beginner though -- I'd already been reading quite a bit. I wouldn't recommend it as a way to learn grammar, but it will definitely fill in some blanks and teach you some nuances you didn't know you didn't know. Particularly stuff you already mostly understand and so would never look up (such as に, or が).
I'm a relatively advanced intermediate learner (could probably pass N1 without preparing for it if I tried), but I've never read many VNs so I figured I might as well broaden my horizons a bit.
So, what's the best VN?
こと is the generic word used for abstract things (もの is for concrete things). This particular use of こと is a very peculiar use of the word which even natives have a hard time explaining. It's said that it's there to make the sentence more indirect hence more elegant/polite/Japanese.
There's some pretty standard English literature.
You're completely hopeless if there are more than ten words in it that you don't know.
How the fuck am I supposed to know when to use one and not another?
But omitting an entire column is a good reason not to get a score like this.
Also, reminder that if you're not looking up the words you're checking to make sure they mean what you think they mean (long-click, 'define' on any decent phone), it's only measuring how many words you *think* you know.
I didn't have any missing columns.
>Also, reminder that if you're not looking up the words you're checking to make sure they mean what you think they mean (long-click, 'define' on any decent phone), it's only measuring how many words you *think* you know.
That's a given.
Well here's ten words in order that I didn't know from this piece. Don't mind the time it took me to read, I got interrupted by a phone call
I honestly doubt most natives know them.
I'm native and I didn't know a bunch of words but they were all horror/occult related.
I know everything from your list except monomania which sort of(?) belongs to the aforementioned category.
Produced by interleaving threads, i.e. cloth
A woodland spirit; a tree-person
Where something lives
Inclination not to do something
Pertaining to the woods/forests
Large crowd of people; bustle of activity
Patch of particularly spiky undergrowth
Cult of personality
Standing watch over something, particularly for religious reasons
No google, bro
Not the guy you're replying to, but what am I considered if I learned English as a first language at home while also acquiring German at the same time outside of the home I grew up in?
Obviously while living in a German speaking country.
I'm not the one on an imageboard in your native language telling you what native speakers are supposed to know. All those words are really basic anyway, see >>134797970. Stop thinking you know my language just because you played WoW for half a decade.
>telling you what native speakers are supposed to know
Perhaps you should take some English lessons as well, because I haven't said you were or weren't supposed to know anything.
The implication is still there. But you wouldn't know anyway. In any case the fact still stands that these words are easily recognisable by any native English speaker so your point is invalid.
Yeah, a friend of mine who is the same as me is quite a lot worse at German than he is at English. Not seriously lacking, not bad, but just by far not as good as his English.
Though I was taught how to read quite some time before we actually learned it in School and I read a lot of books in German as a child, so that probably made a difference.
I generally prefer English since it feels a whole lot more "lightweight" (for the lack of a better word) when compared to German, but I'm equally proficient in German.
Nice. Though I'd probably shave about 3k to 4k words to this number. Judging by the 10k mature words I have on Anki and the words I mined but have yet to grasp fully, 15k words sounds about right.
>using the fourth given definition when the three other ones make so much more sense in the context
How kind of you to directly tell me you are doing damage control.
>"I doubt" is an idiom
What, it's not archaic fear anymore?
And you have to accept the fact that 'to doubt' means 'to be uncertain of' and isn't a roundabout way to say you should do something, or are fearful of something.
so I've been watching anime (japanese + subs) for two years now, something like 5 hours a day. I know hiragana and katakana, do you think that turning off the subtitles and watching raw anime will improve my japanese level? Someone said this is very useful, any advice? I also speak italian, so I'm kinda used to speak in more than one language (and the italian pronunciation is quite similar to japanese)
I was talking with my ex host-family dad, and he said something along the lines of "Want anything from here? We'll send it to you".
I really want a mahjong set, but the shipping fees would be atrocious, and he would no doubt offer to pay for it.
How do I say "If you'll let me pay for it, there's one thing I'd like"?
I'd go with "私が払ったら、欲しい物一つがある。", but it doesn't exactly convey the feeling I want, and it may sound like "If you're making me pay" instead of "If you'll LET me pay"
FUCK OFF ESL SUBHUMANS LEAVE NOW LEAVE NOW LEAVE NOW
YOU DON'T KNOW ENGLISH UNLESS YOU CAN READ SHAKESPEARE WITHOUT A DICTIONARY AND UNDERSTAND CHAUCER AND MALORY, I'M BEING ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SERIOUS. GO BACK TO YOUR INFERIOR, CULTURALLY IRRELEVANT HOMELAND AND SHITPOST THERE.
>hit the I understand all words button on every sentence
Does it just give you a random number?
Japanese subs (from kitsunekko, for example) help a lot with sounds / pronunciation
English subs improve your comprehension by associating audio with meaning as you watch, but be careful -- you need to really focus on the audio, not tune it out. Also subs can be liberal as fuck. So you still need to study the vocab closely. (Read the Guide. you can plug the japanese sub file into JTAT and use anki to master the vocab)
Raws are best but only if you are at the level where you can follow them, otherwise you're just listening to gibberish. At the beginner stage you will benefit most by watching raws after you have already studied the ep's vocab
This is the stupidest shit in the world. If people want to write, let them fucking write. Just because some natives are retarded doesn't mean you should lower yourself to their standard. It's like posting a video of some ghetto niggers and saying "hurr hurr to the people learning to speak proper english look at the slang they're using". Sure it's not a proper analogy but learning to write is a perfectly valid thing to do so you have no place telling people what to do at all.
If you were wondering, I've never used RTK.
Yes, you can learn to write if you want. You don't need to learn to write or memorize the radicals to read or type though. Some people argue the opposite, even saying things "if you can write you are not fluent", etc. Also your analogy isn't completely irrelevant. A good analogy doesn't exist. The closest example would be spelling, however you need to speed to type so English spelling is better than Japanese kanji writing in which you don't use kanji writing to type.
As someone who's been on this thread for close to two years... when writefags get obnoxious about other learners being unable to write, that's just a sign to ignore them. You usually can blow them the fuck out really easily like so:
>If you can't write kanji you don't know kanji.
But even that usually isn't worth the effort. Just ignore them. They can do something others can't and they will go to their fucking grave bragging about it.
I need to stop posting my Flyable Heart stuff right before I go to sleep. I hope you are still around.
**Flyable Heart Spoilers**:
The heart theory just popped into my head, I didn't think it was true at all. When Mayuri was talking about Sakurako getting the heart in the Yui-verse, she was talking about losing something important to get it, which I had no idea what she was talking about at the time and assumed I was misunderstanding the Japanese somehow. Then I saw how she acted when she met Shou's dad and that is when it popped into my head. About 1 hour after I posted my theories, Shou's dad died and Sakurako found a donor, so I knew I was right. I was really surprised.
I could only figure it out because I had already done Amane and Yui though. That is what makes this game so interesting.
It didn't really affect how I felt about her personality change because I couldn't think of how that could be connected with his dad. Initially I thought she really felt that way, but later I was also thinking that if she is such a good actress, maybe she was putting on that act for a reason.
I'm still wondering why the President has her apartment key and was willing to marry her to keep it. Hope to figure that out soon.
Reply if you read this, otherwise I'll post it again tonight.
I'm trying to learn how to read Japanese without writing.
I'm terrible at writing in English and absolutely loathe doing it. I haven't written anything other than my signature since I graduated.
To me typing is so much easier and legibility is never an issue.
Trust me they know how to write them. It's just that when you go a long time without writing essays or whatever they write in school you can't produce words that easily especially those that you wouldn't write very often.
And as a foreign language learner, I never intend to write school essays in the first place, so why start?
It will be preserved in digital text just fine. And not like culture fading is necessarily a bad thing mind you, remember Ozymandis - time erodes all. It's just a matter of time.
Anyone else write only because it helps them retain all this better? I even write out notes when I'm studying Tae Kim or whatever, then re-write to make it easier for me to refer back to later.
>read 霞外籄逗留記 to get better
>grammar is kind of hard but the only real trouble is the incredibly obscure vocabulary
There's no fuckin' way around it. I *have* to read newspapers. There's simply no other way to get concentrated doses of the "real life" vocabulary I need. Fucking hell. Not even the Final Boss is hard enough the areas I need it to be
>And not like culture fading is necessarily a bad thing mind you, remember Ozymandis - time erodes all. It's just a matter of time.
You know, I agree, worrying about Earthly immortality of any form, whether it's individual fame, cultural heritage, great monuments or works of literature, etc. is a very pagan mindset. The only true immortality is that granted us by God in heaven, the Earthly world means nothing.
I don't know about the pagan mindset or anything. I just don't believe it's very constructive to consider culture valuable and worth preserving just because it exists. Not as in, preserving history books or works of art, but as in preserving the fluid societal culture such as writing kanji or what have you. To me, trying to preserve the act of writing kanji is as equally silly as trying to preserve 60s fashion. It's not objectively bad, but it's not something that NEEDs to exist, and not something the world would be that worse off without. I mean, to you, you may say "thousands of years of culture lost!", but to a child being raised in 2100, it'd just be "thank god I don't have to write those kanji! what the fuck were they thinking!".
You're the one jerking your knee.
That's a lot of mental gymnastics to justify to yourself that you don't need to learn writing. You just don't want to learn writing because it doesn't fit your goals and this
>To me, trying to preserve the act of writing kanji is as equally silly as trying to preserve 60s fashion. It's not objectively bad, but it's not something that NEEDs to exist, and not something the world would be that worse off without.
is just a fucking disingenuous statement, mate.
>And you have to accept the fact that 'to doubt' means 'to be uncertain of' and isn't a roundabout way to say you should do something, or are fearful of something.
Go look up the word "idiom". We'll wait. But you have to go look it up, because it's crucial to understanding why you're wrong.
Gone and looked it up?
Good. Now you should be aware that you cannot discern the meaning of an idiom by looking at the meanings of the individual words.
I'll repeat that, because it's so important: you. can. not. discern. the. meaning. of. an. idiom. from. the. meanings. of. its. constituent. words.
All your smug citing of the dictionary definition of the word "doubt" was just pissing in the wind.
"I doubt X" is an idiom, and it does not mean what its constituent words mean ("I do not believe with certainty that X"); it has an idiomatic meaning of "I believe with certainty that X is not the case".
Thus you were saying "I am certain that native speakers do not/should not know these words", and in doing so you were wrong.
This is why you don't get into pissing matches with people about how their own language is spoken or what their own language means. You simply don't know enough to even know you're wrong.
>"I doubt X" is an idiom, and it does not mean what its constituent words mean ("I do not believe with certainty that X"); it has an idiomatic meaning of "I believe with certainty that X is not the case".
What you don't seem to understand is that saying "I doubt xyz" does not have to be idiomatic, and that if your interpretation of his sentence was "English people don't know this!" then it's too bad for you because he obviously, literally meant "It would surprise me to know that native English speakers know the cited words".
I imagine someone at a party asking the host to cut him a piece of cake only for him to reply "What? Is something easy? WTF idioms OMG!!"
You keep calling him out for being think and not accepting being wrong when you are doing the exact same thing.
Remember the italk guy who chatted with Japanese milfs who were desperate for his affection? They loved him because he was a 10/10. Handwriting doesn't mean jack or shit.
Look at it from your own perspective. Would you reject a Japanese girl because she typed her letters? No. Would you reject a Japanese girl because she's ugly? Probably. Handwriting means nothing.
If English isn't your first language why are you even continuing this conversation? Would you go to 2ch and tell them how to speak Japanese? I don't understand why ESLs in particular are so arrogant on the Internet, far and away the WORST foreign-language learners.
The ideals are what I'm referring to. My grandfather was extremely racist and religious, and I'm neither, so I'd be a degenerate; likewise, I have no doubts that your ideas are degenerate to your own forefathers at some point.
Though, when it comes to handwriting kanji, the only people who actually think it's culturally significant in a meaningful way are probably white virgins, so it's irrelevant either way.
>If English isn't your first language why are you even continuing this conversation?
Did you even read my post? Or did someone let a cat out of the bag and spilled the beans?
Don't worry, most of them quit when they realise the incredibly easy jump they made from their disgusting native tongue to English doesn't carry over to Japanese.
English native is the best path for learning the language, because you have no frame of reference to compare your progress to.
>They're pen pals you retards.
Nah, we already met up and fucked lots a month ago or so. I'm that guy that charmed a grill into flying over here and staying for 10 days and she ended up falling in love with me hard.
The above are great to write out with pen and paper. The activity of writing is also beneficial for retention, forces you to slow down and think about what is being written isstead of nutting away at a keyboard with spellcheck, and maybe above all there is no backspace or copypaste. Writing by hand is a good overall exercise for wellbeing and keeping a journal/diary/log of daily events by hand is highly recommended for personal reflection, centering thoughts and productivity. Doing this in the target language really helps address strengths and weaknesses in the ability to express thoughts clearly. Also good for seeing improvement over time in a much more individual manner than computer typed writing.
Nah, it'd defeat the whole purpose of sending physical letters. You're supposed to include a bit of yourself in your letters. He might as well fucking email her if he's only going to send her printed shit.
>People wish they were kids so they could learn a language
>Kids take a year or more before they can even use sounds
>Two years before they can use words
>3 years before they can speak with shit grammar
Children are shit at talking and learning languages. The only advantage they have is that they're exposed 100% 24/7 without worrying about working/money/whatever, and they have a slightly easier time hearing sounds you were never exposed to, but research indicates that even though it's difficult, with training you can hear sounds you never had as a kid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_of_English_/r/_and_/l/_by_Japanese_speakers#Effects_of_training)
Now stop making excuses for your shit motivation, and study.
>Nah, it'd defeat the whole purpose of sending physical letters.
Or maybe you just don't want your personal letters being read by every alphabet agency in the Western hemisphere?
>notepad on phone/pc
>does all of those
In any case, I am stunned by how far you're willing to pretend writing has significant benefits. Either way, it doesn't matter. For Japanese, the literal hundreds of hours needed to master writing (and the continued dedication to keep writing in it when it's unnecessary) far outweigh every possible benefit it provides.
Does it help write love letters? Sure. Is it a good exercise for well being? Uh, maybe. Is it worth hundreds of hours of dedicated practice? Hell no.
Yeah, I imagine his words will contain a lot more of himself than scrawled characters. No idea why you guys are being so sentimental over trivial stuff.
>voluntarily having the same arguments with the same people every thread or so
>some of them don't actually care and are just here to shitpost and start arguments to ruin the thread on purpose
>expecting it to go differently this time instead of just ignoring it
That neck is way too long.
There, I've fixed it for you.
I'll just type it up and grind out the kanji for every kanji I need to write until it looks decent
>I imagine someone at a party asking the host to cut him a piece of cake only for him to reply "What? Is something easy? WTF idioms OMG!!"
Try that paragraph again: it doesn't mean anything.
I imagine what you're driving at is that you're suggesting that whether or not something is idiomatic English depends on context.
Well, guess what: you don't know English well enough to make that particular context call. You accidentally used an idiom that you didn't know and didn't mean to*. You're now claiming that the precise wording you used can also be taken at face value.
I'm telling you now that it can't.
No-one would take that to mean anything other than what everyone took it to mean. This is not one guy engaging in sophistry or wilful ignorance, this is you getting it wrong.
* or at least you claim to: the whole thread's right there, and anyone interested can just read it and see for themselves how much like damage-control the whole exchange looks.
>There actually are more ESL than english native
Jesus christ I thought it was a meme like niggerspeak, is this really happening?
I'm awake now, doesn't really matter to me if our posts are hours apart.
Interesting. You figured out a lot more than me but getting spoiled seems to have helped a lot. By the time I realised the different dimensions thing I was past all of that. Also I completely forgot about the Mayuri interactions in Yui's route until now, but now that you mention it, that was a strong clue.
I'm curious, what was the spoiler you got for Yui's route? That'd also affect your expectations going in so you know what to look out for, I genuinely thought flyable heart would just be a fun, plot-free romance story up until Yui saw Shou's dad.
Also I hope it's fine for me to say there's no Mayuri stuff in Suzuno's route, I assume you find out in her game. Everything else gets explained though, look forward to it. If you want you can post what you think will happen so we can look back on it after you're done.
Life is long and failing to take advantage of your time when you are young is something you will regret when you are older. Writing is a form of creative intellectual freedom no one can take away from you.
You don't have to. You can get by fine without the Advanced sections. A lot of other stuff is also mostly archaic grammar you'll never really encounter outside of pre-20th century texts.
>Middle upper beginner: Knows 300 confirmed kanji and isn't afraid to teach early beginners how to learn Japanese despite being beginners themselves. Has left Nama-sensei and is knee deep in Tae Kim's essential section. More or less has anki figured out but is still learning new things.
Look, ESL scum, burgers and inbred Aussies all have equally shit English and should gtfo. I'm counting britbongs as ESLs since they all speak Arabic and Canadians as burgers since the only real difference is they can't enjoy lolis.
The DoJG deck is one of the only valuable learning resources this community has created (and even then it was only a few people, not the community as a whole). Pretty much every other valuable resource is taken from somewhere else and has no relation to DJT.
It's also a completely meaningless resource, as the idea of grinding grammar points by their English definitions is so hilariously stupid that only a dumb Anki addict would see any merit in the concept.
>you're a retard who doesn't understand the deck.
Is it just me or has there been a huge amount of posts recently about people "not understanding" the DOJG deck? Not to say anything of this argument in particular I just swear I've seen it so often recently.
I'm not whoever you think I am, but it's true. Name a single significant resource / learning tool outside of the main guide, CoR (if those two things even count), and the DoJG deck that DJT has contributed to the Japanese learning community.
Well >>134804708 said if the CoR and DoJG were gone, nothing of value would be lost, and that just leaves the guide, which for the most part just links to a bunch of resources from other places.
Why do you need to contribute anything? Given these threads started only a couple of years ago, all the actually useful material had already been invented.
There are countless grammar guides. Anki works great. There are decks for pretty much anything you could ever want to grind using Anki, and lots of completely worthless ones for retards like fucking kana decks and grammar decks.
Past beginner stage, studying is just consuming native content, and googling explanations for weird idioms you come across.
I think this whole line of thinking is misguided because DJT is mostly beginners with some intermediates peppered in. Why would foreigners to the language trying to learn be expected to make stuff? The only real avenues are to compile existing resources made by people fluent in the language, which was done in the resources pastbin and the main guide document. I think that's pretty good, and really the most you should expect.
It's also important to note that, in my opinion, every really necessary/important Japanese resource is already made. We have tons of grammar guides available, we have tons of anki decks available, what more is there? What do we need to make? Core6k + DOJG deck + radical deck + Taekim/imabi/dojg/genki/etc + Chiitrans + Rikai + native material = success. What do you suggest adding to this formula? I'm drawing blanks.
Speaking of the guide:
What changes would you like to see to the guide? I'm thinking of writing a new guide sometime in the near future since I feel like the current one is isn't quite cutting it.
I'll also split the guide and the resources into separate documents, but that's a minor thing.
>some of them don't actually care and are just here to shitpost and start arguments to ruin the thread on purpose
Ultimately, all I would like to see is Krashen/Steve philosophy injected more into the introduction. I also think it would be more beneficial if the guide focused more on practical advice in the beginning with more "trivia" type information in the back, for example instead of giving a history lesson. For example:
>Hiragana (ひらがな) is the syllabary used most commonly in Japanese. Hiragana are an (extremely) cursive form of the Manyogana. A character for the sound ‘ya’ in Manyogana, for example, is 也. The character for ‘ya’ in Hiragana is や, and is derived from 也. The Hiragana actually came about later than the katakana. The Hiragana are said to be created by a group of noble women, and the Hiragana are generally used to write Japanese phonetically.
90% of this is not helpful. It would be better like:
>Hiragana (ひらがな) is the syllabary (think of it like an alphabet) used most commonly in Japanese. You need to know this to read anything so learn it. It represents every sound in the Japanese language. Therefore, you can theoretically write everything in Hiragana.
And add a link to http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/hiragana for people to learn from - I think the guide should aim to guide people, but not teach people. Therefore, I see it as more beneficial to link to existing learning resources instead of trying to make a whole knew one in the guide. What do you think?
I just want a complete rewrite. The current one is comprehensive and dense enough that people don't read it. I want a format where it links off to smaller documents with higher quality detail on individual topics, rather than the current monolithic form.
I agree. Right now most beginners seem to gravitate towards the threads because the guide is too big and confusing. Namely a guide that opens up directly on how to start learning and then goes in more details would be more fitting.
Found this website called Japaneselevelup.
It claims to make Japanese fun by learning the language as if it's an RPG or some shit (has levels, quests, worlds, etc)
It looks pretty reliable, but should I really be taking this path? Does anyone know if this site is actually any good or not, or would I be wasting my time?
Hell no. Why would I forget half a language for another language when I can just not be lazy and learn the entire language from scratch?
Why lose half your native language when you can keep it by actually taking an effort in learning Japanese?
>I also think it would be more beneficial if the guide focused more on practical advice in the beginning with more "trivia" type information in the back, for example instead of giving a history lesson
>I think the guide should aim to guide people, but not teach people
Exactly my thoughts anon.
I feel like the guide contains too much bloat in places where it should be more to the point. Just some short bouts of information with a practical example a reference to a proper resource which will educate them properly.
I'm also not happy with how it goes about Kanji, because when I read it the first time, and times after that too, I felt like the only way of learning Kanji was RTK. It's a valid method, but just grinding Kanji worked great for me and others, so leading newcomers to believe that there is only one good method is something I'd rather avoid.
How would you go about emphasizing thread etiquette?
The miscellaneous section (will keep that in the guide) is quite clear on proper thread etiquette. How people behave in the thread is a matter of the people, regardless of what a guide tells them, there's no enforcement of DJT specific rules and I'm honestly quite fine with that, people can govern themselves.
Though I'd still be interested to hear your suggestions.
Indeed, this is what I've been thinking. The guide should be more clear on how to go about learning Japanese. It shouldn't be biased towards any methods, but I believe that there is a certain consensus within the DJT on how to approach learning Japanese (e. g. Learning hiragana, grammar, getting a vocabulary basis and reading) which would be what one wants reflected in the guide.
It would be a lot easier to relearn the words you forgot since you live in your country and have to be exposed to words all day and also understand how your language works perfectly well. It would take a lot more work to memorize the kanji used in the vocab to read the words along with the meaning and uses of the words themselves. The downside is that you might forget some really basic words and look like a retard/baby until you can relearn your vocabulary.
It's not even real gamification, he just names his pages that way.
Essentially it's just doing reps with Anki, only using his ridiculously overpriced decks.
There's some good pages of information there, esp. related to using Japanese dictionaries, but as far as paying Shapiro, there's really no reason.
If you absolutely must pay money for Japanese learning online, IMO Jpod101 has far and away the best product. Of course,
it's on the CoR :^)
>I'm also not happy with how it goes about Kanji, because when I read it the first time, and times after that too, I felt like the only way of learning Kanji was RTK. It's a valid method, but just grinding Kanji worked great for me and others, so leading newcomers to believe that there is only one good method is something I'd rather avoid.
I think it might be useful to have a document on just how kanji work. Things that teach kanji to language learners gloss over the things that make kanji intelligible. That itself would let newfags understand the differences between kanji resources better.
>How would you go about emphasizing thread etiquette?
I've managed to "threaten" people into not arguing before by making boogeymans about people starting arguments to get spoonfed.
I think enumerating examples of people arguing for a higher motive might make people treat arguing less like a game.
>It shouldn't be biased towards any methods
I think it certainly should be biased /away/ from certain methods. It needs to say that there are methods that work great, but only for some people. The language learning community does not consider extensive prioritized production to be a good general method for learning/teaching languages, for example. Intelligible reading/listening is king, and anything that has a goal of making that easier, be it memorizing vocab, sentence decks, grammar decks, mining, kanji study, should be treated as obviously better as things that don't prioritize preparing you for input.
If possible, you should keep the option of kanji through vocab vs individual kanji study (be it RTK, just grinding a kanji deck, etc) open in the guide and emphasize that neither method is necessarily the "best" one for everyone.