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Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1334

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Thread replies: 568
Thread images: 75

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Cornucopia of Resources / Guide (read Guide before asking questions):
http://bitlasers.com/djt

Previous Thread:
>>134753559
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なるべく諦めない!
なせば大抵なんとかなる!

Persistence is the key to success. You CAN learn Japanese!
>>
Remember, Wanikani is the key to success!
>>
>>134786824
I would never remember the current existing DOJG deck to anyone, because as it stands the format will hurt and turn away a lot more people than it helps (due to exposure + recall layouts, but no actual recognition layouts), so I consider a hack-job for proper recognition to be superior to the existing well-made deck.
>>
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Reminder that you can't learn Japanese.
>>
>>134787283
I'm feeling pretty good, this game's opening started with a poem of sorts by 日夏 耿之介 I believe, it was really fucking hard and I didn't understand any of it, but the main game's text is a lot more readonable and I can really understand what's going on, so my confidence has received a boost, since I considered these games (rail-soft in general) to be the final boss of Japanese. Yet here I am, reading them and understanding, albeit poorly. As you can see in pic related, at the very least, it's currently not too excessively hard.

This fills me with hope. Impossible strength...
>>
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;_;
>>
The "poem" for those wondering, I know it's only hard because I suck but it's nevertheless harder than the rest of the game I've read (not much yet, just 30 some minutes).

Are you a bad enough dude to read pic related?
>>
>>134787510
nope just started, but one day...one day.. [hushed sobbing]
>>
>>134787572
Try Otome ga Kanaderu Koi no Aria. Sex scenes are fucking amazing when fully voiced.
>>
>>134787700
Meant for >>134784319
>>
>>134787253
You are the same guy from the other threads, clearly. Sorry but your "fixed" deck is worse than the current deck, which works perfectly on both desktop and ankidroid. There is always the one or two loud anons who insist their way is right, despite your problems only being brought up by yourself ans that is about it.
What is with your persistence when plenty of beginners already use it without these game breaking problems?
The deck already has proper recognition and cloze/recall cards. You don't understand the deck.
>>
>>134787719
Wow, you misquoted so hard you hit the wrong thread
>>
>>134787174
I... I can't do it...
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Remember! No matter how awkward and ugly you are, as long as your white, you can get a Japanese gf! Just learn Japanese and move to Japan and there will be a gf all for you!
>>
>>134787739
I did not give any indication that I was a separate person, nor did I pretend to be.
I do think my way is "right", obviously, otherwise I wouldn't believe it. I recognize that you and others disagree, which is why I changed the format myself and am not trying to get the main team(?) to change the main deck. This is a personal problem, so I personally solved it. Where do you take issue with this?
>>
>>134787742
恥ずかしいね
うどんを食べに行く
四国のうどんは最高だよ
>>
>>134787798
But a jap gf would be looking for a Strong European Aryan Man, not a pansy beta faggot who wants to be pegged such as myself
>>
>>134784319
> voiced protagonist
Eden* They Were Only Two, On The Planet
Aiyoku no Eustia
Baldr Sky Dive
All are relatively easy
>>
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>>134787413
Thanks for sharing your experience. The image you linked me to certainly seems a lot easier than the standard narration that rail-soft features.

Apparently I'm going to need to study hiroshima-ben exclusively for one of the Senshinkan characters. And I've only really mounted the beginning of the world of chuu2ge with stuff like Fortissimo.

Stuff like this just depresses me at the moment. It'll definitely be possible ... eventually?
>>
>>134787700
Cool, I'll put it on my list and make note of it. Thanks.

>>134787848
I'll have to bump these up the list too. Didn't know they had voiced protags.
>>
>>134787871
As far as I can tell, once you "know" all Japanese, learning an accent is as simple as memorizing a bunch of minor differences, it isn't that hard I think. Hiroshima ben even has an ENGLISH guide written by a decades experienced speaker, so even better.
>>
>>134787957
>learning an accent
I meant learning a dialect, of course
>>
>>134787196

Be nice to the beginners, anon.
>>
>>134787846
They can't really tell the difference.
Because of their squinty eyes.
>>
>>134788004
>implying a faggot who wants to be pegged still isn't incredibly alpha compared to the average young jap male
>>
>>134787798
>>134788004
someone post that screenshot of the Japanese girl with the shit eating grin saying "just because you are a foreigner doesn't mean Japanese girls will be attracted to you" or something, because I can't find it right now
>>
I haven't done my reviews in so long ;__;

I'm too scared to look at my Wanikani review queue
>>
>>134788147

Sounds like a good time to cancel your Wanikani subscription and start using anki.
>>
Which is better: Memrise or WaniKani?
>>
>>134788242
Honestly, wanikani, memrise is shit. Wanikani at least provides some exclusive content but there is no reason to use memrise when anki exists.
>>
>>134788192
But I really have learned a lot with Wanikani. More than anki for sure. The whole radical, kanji, vocab progression works pretty well for me.
>>
>>134788283
You can do that progression in anki.
>>
>>134788283

If you want radicals, download the kanjidamage or RTK anki decks.

Not only does Wanikana charge you for things you can get for free, it artificially limits your progress (bad by itself; you should be in control of how fast you progress) so that it can squeeze more money out of you (even worse). Stop giving them money.
>>
>>134788343

* Wanikani
>>
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The only form of Wanikani that is acceptable is using an illegally ripped Anki deck of Wanikani.
>>
>>134788397
I did this myself, don't regret.
>>
>>134788242
I tried using Memrise once. It wanted me to type in the answer and there was no way to turn it off. What a waste of time.

Luckily there is an Anki addon that will download a Memrise course and turn it into an Anki deck. The deck was still shit though, because there aren't any good German decks. Japanese learners are spoiled.
>>
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Do it in Japanese.
https://jii.moe/VJPFCp_Be.webm
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What are some unexpected discoveries you've made with concepts in Japanese? Share your experiences with me, DJT!
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>>134788761
just make ur dreams...cum
>>
>>134788800
i learned that kanji have useless parts and made them 100x easier to remember by looking up which parts are meaningful on wikipedia
>>
>>134787170
So in some anime and manga I've noticed that men sometimes say ぜ and ぞ instead of ね and よ, at least that's what I assume they're doing. How common is this actually? Is this more of a fictional thing or do men actually talk like that in Japan a lot?
>>
>>134787739
>The deck already has proper recognition and cloze/recall cards.
Care to take a picture of recognition mode?
>>
>>134787739
>What is with your persistence when plenty of beginners already use it without these game breaking problems?
Pretty much everyone who used the old DOJG deck changed the format by copying a fixed one off a pastebin.
>>
Beginner reporting, I started studying kanji a week ago with the 2k-6k core deck and grammar with Tae Kim. I'm also building my deck comprising reverse cards for both recognition and production. Do you have any advice for me, such as something else to do or pointing out if I'm doing something wrong?
>>
>>134788912
Yes, most men in Japan talk like that. ね and よ are rather feminine. You should work on including ぜ and ぞ Iin your speech patterns if you want to avoid getting laughed at when you visit Japan.
>>
>>134788968
What about じゃねえお
>>
>>134788981
it's a facetious post
>>
It pleases me greatly to see all the people in the last thread like >>134774219 reading fureraba. I hope you enjoy the weeks ahead of fun, romance, excitement, love and deep, passionate sex (one of the seiyuus is so amazing at h-scenes I chose my last vn by clicking a random one in her list on vndb (I found out later she was just a side character in that vn and had no sex scenes)).
>>
>>134788960
learn radicals if you haven't.
>>
>>134789045
どの声優?
>>
>>134788960
>>134789062
http://pastebin.com/P6uMBKta
>>
>>134789082
read fureraba and find out
>>
Is textfugu good?
>>
>>134788397
>Anki deck of Wanikani
Link?
>>
>>134789219
I would tell you to check the archives, but...

Maybe someone saved the mega link.
>>
>>134787170
I'm reading someone's translation of 賭ケグルイ at the moment and comparing it to the japanese copy I just bought. In the physical manga the character says "ボンボンの馬鹿娘がッ。。。ナメやがって。。。" This translator has changed that to "That bitch... she's looking down on me" Can someone help me understand?
>>
>>134789219
I think the site has been updated a fair amount since the deck I have was made. Someone should rip the site again.
>>
>>134787174
出来るぞ!
>>
>>134789278
出来たぞ!
>>
>>134789272
I think to rip the site completely you need to unlock everything on it, so unless anyone here has everything unlocked and is willing to go through that trouble, I don't know if that'll happen.
>>
>>134787846
>implying im not already that
>>
i'm going to Japan next week, is this a good way to introduce myself

にくぼうだいちゅきでちゅ~はやくぼくのけちゅまんにぶちこんでくだちゃい
>>
>>134789368
Wtf are you trying to say here, use kanji.
>>
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>>134789368
>にくぼうだ
>>
>>134789263
Maybe a more literal translation would be "that ordinary stupid girl is treating me with contempt" but the basic meaning is the same...
>>
ケツでも掘られたのか?
>>
It feels weird having completed my reviews several days in a row, with no slacking off.

I really need to get my shit together.
>>
>>134789263
ボンボンmeans child of rich people, the kind of child who was born with a silver spoon in his/her mouth. 'Bitch' is far from being the best way to translate that...
>>
>>134789507
君のお母ちゃんが?
>>
>>134789480
>>134789520
Okay, that makes much more sense, especially in the context of the story. Thanks anons.
>>
>>134789520
Oh, forgot to add I thought ボンボン meant "furiously" which was also confusing me. That's cleared that up.
>>
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>>134789520
ボンボンは世間知らずの意味じゃないかなとおもうよ。
>>
>>134789542
父ちゃんだよ
ただの肉にされたんです。でも、意外と気持ちいい。。。
>>
>>134789453
i'm sorry, i don't know kanji...
にくぼう だいちゅき でちゅ~ 
はやく ぼく の けちゅまん に ぶちこんで くだちゃい
>>
>>134787170
I'm back to studying after a 3ish month break. I'm far behind and I probably wasnt even as advanced as some of you smart cookies would be with equal study time, but I know it'll be fine if I keep pushing! I just wanted to tell you that, /djt/.
>>
>>134787174
Everyday I come to this thread for this post and pic related
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>>134789654
>3 month break
>>
>>134789683
School got tough
>>
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>>134789695
>school
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>>134789695
>School got tough
>>
>>134789713
>>134789719
I'll show you! I'll show you all!
>>
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>>134789794
>I'm currently enrolling in college and want to (maybe) major in a foreign language
>>
>>134789794
Yeah man you can also play those video games too.
>>
Just finished Mayuri's route. It was really good, probably 2nd best after Yui's. I felt like I was only halfway through the route when it ended though for some reason. Maybe that incomplete feeling is why they made the Mayuri-only game to continue her route. I may be biased but I think Mayuri's route should be saved for last for more impact.

Now I have 2 weeks to finish Suzuno. I'm excited to find out what is actually going on.
>>
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>>134789794
>>
I've been studying N1 vocab for 4 months now and just realized that N1 was not the most basic vocabulary, on the contrary, it is the hardest vocabulary.

God dammit Japan, don't you understand the leveling system? You start at level 1 and go up in levels, not the reverse.
>>
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I have a few jap friends on steam and such, I would like asking them for help when I don't understand something but it's always from shitty visual novels or hentai and that would be embarrassing, also asking it on /int/ would dishonor my flag so I always have to come back to djt.
But what if I get to the point where djt just can't answer anymore?
>>
>>134790062
I know your pain, I can't ask my professor for help with anything I'm struggling with because all I read is yuri.
>>
>>134789567
金持ちだから世間知らずでしょう。つながってると思いますよ?
>>
Has anyone here ever read DOJG cover to cover? Did it improve your reading comprehension?
>>
>>134789567
Wikipedia ですが 
「上流家庭の子弟(のように見える人)」や「金持ちの家の子供」という意味を持つ場合もある 
って書いてあったから、今回はそれでいいと思います。ナメてる時点で上から目線だという事で、お金持ちなんじゃないかな、と。
>>
I have been studying japanese for like 5 weeks and I know hiragana, doesn'it mean I'm basically Japanese now?
>>
>>134790234
Yes it does, congratulations
>>
>>134789368
Thanks for the laugh>>134789453
>>
>>134790234
You're Japanese, but you're 5.
>>
I have trouble telling 日本 and 本日 apart at first sight.
Say, I'm reading through a newspaper article and start thinking the wrong word at first and have to fix it after that.

Is there anything I can do to improve?
>>
>>134790336
That's funny, i've had the same problem for a while. You just need a little more time,
>>
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ohh shit nigger, compelling content is coming soon
>>
>>134790407
hello, maki shitposter
>>
I've read a lot of doujinshi and manga, a few VNs, and completed a couple of games in japanese but now it feels like I've kind of hit a wall and I'm not learning new vocab at all. I've been trying to keep Anki time to a minimum and as such have only used it for RTK so far, but now it feels like i have to start a mining deck if I want to keep improving.

Any tips on how to start mining? Any way to import definitions and example sentences automatically? Any nice formatting template?
>>
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>>134790464
Your radar is extremely malfunctioning, fagdroid
>>
>>134789884
Good taste friend, I agree with everything you said. I'm hype for the spin-off game, I hear it's really good.
Mayuri's route spoilers: I can't believe you guessed about shou's dad so accurately, was it really that clear from Sakurako's route? Did knowing that change how you felt about Mayuri's personality change? It took me completely by surprise, I thought she actually felt that way.
>>
>>134790031
Japan numba one!
>>
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Useful instructions desu
>>
>>134790479
If you only read mangas or VNs that talk about the same kind of characters in the same kind of story, of course you won't lean any new vocabulary. You have manga about cooking, sports, even alpinism... why not searching for other kinds of contents?
>>
四百二十燃やせ
バカやろう
>>
>>134790336
Happens to everyone, I bet. I always read 本日のすすめ as Japan's recommendation.
>>
>>134791105
What is the difference between 今日 and 本日?
>>
>>134790950
The issue isn't finding new words, the issue is the new words I come across aren't used regularly enough for me to pick them up naturally just by reading

>>134791145
本日 has a more formal nuance
>>
>>134790062
The jap general on /int/ is actually very friendly about helping people get help with the language.
Just don't call them jap even if you're just shortening it. They don't like it. Also it gets very political heavy
>>
>>134791212
>Just don't call them jap even if you're just shortening it. They don't like it.
There is hardly anything offensive with jap
>>
>>134791208
Ah, I see. Maybe also writing them can help? It needs even more concentration and maybe that's what you'd need a little more. I know I don't even read all the words in a sentence when I have an idea of what that means. I'm in such a need to read what follows that I don't really concentrate on each word, only on the mental image of what is happening
>>
>>134791212
The tripfag circlejerking is pretty disgusting in that int thread. With that said there was a fair amount of actual japanese perons there when I used to visit it
>>
>>134791389
Every time I try going there it's just a chatroom for weeaboos to talk about unrelated things, like it's the anime thread for some shitty forum
>>
>>134791335
Actually I did start writing down words in a neat list while playing a game a couple weeks ago, and somehow managed to retain every word I wrote down. Maybe I should just keep doing that, I can't really be assed to make a nice Anki deck
>>
>>134791405
There's a couple of hours each day when there's almost only Japanese posters there. Like 4AM to 10AM GMT.
>>
>>134791510
Well if it works for you, maybe you should effectively keep on doing that. Plus you'll get better at writing faster than if you didn't. As someone who has always much more focused on reading and speaking and who is regretting that now, I can only encourage you.
>>
>>134790062
When you get to that point, it means that your level is high enough for you to search yourself for your own answers.
>>
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>>134787170
The DoJG deck has been updated and now all key and example sentences are marked with their initial letter. Thanks to another anon pointing out the excess styling I've removed the redundant rule lines and tightened the gap between the rear sentences and concept note image.
The last 50 or so cards worth of example had to be completely rearranged to match the volume so when importing there may be issues. I don't know. Maybe not.
The biggest part is left, converting note image to text. Were there any other overlooked things before looking at the next step?
>>
「ダメ!」と言う表現を訳すると多くの場合には「気持ちいいよ、続けて」になるんだよね、先輩。 日本語やっぱり面白い
>>
>>134791860
おかしくなりゅうううう
>>
>>134791860
そうか。ならいい。
>>
>>134791860
どうしてそういうことになってるのかの講釈があるよ
30:00まで飛ばしてね
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql_jH1rZY0k&list=PLUSYVX5AaXIC1fe5xGQJWaGrLlvSHrStP
>>
>>134791755
You're not at that point so how would you know?
>>
>>134792044
You're trying too hard.
>>
>>134791860
日本語だけじゃないよ。
>>
>>134791860
>>134792002
「イヤ!イヤ!イヤ!お母さん!」と大きな声はNO!
なんだ
>>
>>134792184
「いや、ちょっ、何処触って...わっ私には夫が...だからぁ、いやだって~~んv」
はたぶん 「YES」かと。
>>
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>Having trouble with a sentence
>read it over and over for nearly five minutes
>Suddenly it all clicks into place perfectly

best feeling.
>>
Sometimes I wish anki didn't have stats, it just makes me rage even more when I keep getting cards wrong because I want my stats to look good
>>
>>134792236
たしかに。
>>
>>134791860
おまえがママになるんだよ!
>>
>tfw learning more everyday

comfy
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh8QlfYLUO0

Speaking like a native is impossible for you, give up.
>>
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>>134792410
>implying I'm an adult
>>
>>134792410
Threadly reminder that it is impossible to learn a new language after the age of 25
>>
>>134792410
I don't care if I can't, I won't give up, it's too much fun.
>>
>>134792236
correct それから良い笑顔
>>
>>134792456
/a/non source
>>
>>134792456
That's a stupid meme.
>>
>>134792410
Whats wrong with just being fluent?
>>
>>134792472
Oh yeah?

Japanese expert James Richter is said to have studied the language for over 30 years since 25. He still can only converse with natives in broken Japanese with a lot of hesitation. This is due to Japanese being a high context culture, which means outsiders need a lot of direct communication over several years with natives even after "learning" the language in order to converse comfortably, the fact there are over 5000 kanji in Japanese that one has to know how to write and read, and the unfamiliarity of Japanese for non-Chinese speakers. In fact, on the Gravitch scale of language learning difficulty for a native English speaker, French and Spanish are set to 1.2, Chinese to 6, and Japanese to 9.5.

The best option is to give up and spend your time on less vain activities.
>>
>>134792498
>Japanese expert
>James Richter
Oh my sides.
>>
>>134792498
There's no such thing as a gravitch scale numbnuts.
>>
>>134792498
lel, never change /djt/
>>
>>134792498
>have studied the language... since 25
>can only converse with natives in broken Japanese with a lot of hesitation
Yep, it checks out. Sorry to have doubted you Anon.
>>
>>134792498
But I'm having fun, I don't give a shit about that.
And your source has got nothing to do with not being able to learn a language past 25.
>>
>Speaking like a native
Does anybody seriously even want this? What's even the point of sounding like a native? It's not as if you're going to be able to fool anybody into thinking you're a nip.
>>
>>134792498
>japanese expert
>broken japanese

Is that a new meme?
>>
>>134792569
I just want to be a seiyuu and be adored by everyone.
>>
>>134792569
What's even the point in studying? It's not as if you could memorize every text book there is, so why not simply stop studying right now?
>>
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>>134792569
>mfw indistinguishable from a jap
>>
>>134792662
Is that supposed to make sense as a comparison?
>>
>>134792749
Truth hurts, fag?
>>
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ぎりぎりセーフ
>>
>>134792779
I wasn't a part of any of that discussion, I was just amazed at how terrible that comparison is
>>
>>134792853
>damage control
>>
>>134792870
>Retardation
>>
>>134792569
Why should people even listen to you? A bitter Anon who chooses mediocrity.
>>
>>134792812
こんにちは、ぞい子
>>
>>134787510
I'm sure most native speakers would have trouble reading this if there was no furigana so don't be discouraged if you can't understand it.
>>
>>134792410

You can still sound like an educated foreigner, though. Some of the most articulate, most charismatic English speakers that I've ever met have been obvious ESLs from the orient and the middle east.

Expand your vocabulary like a motherfucker, wrap your head around Japanese grammar, be vain about your pronunciation and get rid of the most extreme parts of your English accent that might make you hard to listen to, and learn natural sentence structure and word choice. If you work hard, you'll get good enough that your intelligence and personality will convey themselves fully. Learning Japanese as an adult isn't a sentence to forever sound like the Japanese equivalent of "Yuu want pok fraid rais and pok damprin'g? Our pok dumprin'g r reary gud." Actually, the fact that you're reading and listening a lot (right?) is probably doing a very good job at prepping your mind to get past that stage very quickly should you ever start engaging in lots of output.
>>
>>134789567
Okay, I can't take it anymore. I don't understand. This burning question of mine has been sparkly lingering for months now, and is consuming me:
Why are all your images named "imouto.jpg"? Are they simply automatically renamed, like in some dollchan forks or do you have the obsession of saving all those Ichigo Mashimaro images in individual folders, one by one?
>>
>>134791105
>>134790393
It already helps to know I'm not the only one with that problem, so thanks.
>>
>>134793312
Anon, I don't have an accent because my language has more sounds than Japanese and we don't rape the sounds like you burgers do.
>>
>>134793414
Thanks for the non-sequitur?
>>
>>134793380
Or maybe you name the image imouto.jpg, post it and then discard it, erasing it only to replace it by a new, fresh imouto.jpg, which, too, is destined to be left befind? The age of the throwaway imouto image, where they don't even have their own name anymore - The ultimate disrespect to your image files.

That reminds me: Who actually read the Anki FAQ or Vermeer's Anki Essentials?
>>
>>134793468

It's not a non-sequitur. He's claiming that he won't sound like a foreigner at all.

He is likely very delusional, though. Foreign adult learners pretty much always have at least a slight accent, and that's with languages that are close, like an Italian who speaks English as a second language.
>>
Is memerise a good app to learn Japanese?
>>
>>134793934
Short answer: no. Long answer: there are much better options available, including anki and hell, even wanikani if you're stupid and willing to pay the dosh.
>>
If you're doing anki and you see a word like "生かす" and you go "oh yeah that means to make the best use of", and then you click show to find that the back of the card says "to let live / keep alive", if you were aware that it meant that too but that's not the meaning you thought of at the time, do you do the card again or just say good?
>>
What do the little numbers over the answer buttons in Anki mean? I assumed that "2.0 mo" would mean I'll see the card again after two months but I'm seeing the same cards much more often than that.
>>
>>134794018
Do it again, cause the first meaning is usually written 活かす anyway.
>>
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>>134792456
Threadly reminder that that's just a myth.

The brain is plastic basically throughout all your life. Even old fucks that are said to be "too old to learn new habits" CAN LEARN, they just don't want to, even although they could want.
You, too, can learn. Persistence is the key to success.

To get a layman introduction to brain plasticity, you could listen to this Brain Science Podcast episode: http://brainsciencepodcast.com/bsp/2015/bsp-116-doidge
>>
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>>134794063
おさかなやさんで、〆めないで売ってるものは
水槽とはいわずに、特別な名前で呼ばれるよね
>>
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>tfw I'm going to move to Japan to become a gravure idol and get my boipucci impregnated by a Yakuza.
>>
>>134794595
That's pretty hot (no homer)
>>
>>134794049
木の精?Maybe you have duplicate cards. I found out I had 8 out of 9 ひきのばす.
>>
>>134794674
>木の精
Epic.
>>
Anyone use a Kindle to read LNs? It keeps highlighting whole sentences for me.
>>
>>134794515
ちゃうねん、お魚屋さんにある水槽

>生け簀

っていいたかってん。あかんわ
>>
>>134794927
You need to use Send to Kindle to add the parsing metadata, there's no other way. Did you grab them from the CoR? All the text LNs found on Nyaa are converted correctly already.
>>
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>been studying Japanese on and off for 5 years
>took a basic Japanese class 2 years ago
>still couldn't understand shit
>almost gave up
>visited DJT 3 months ago
>followed the guide
>now I can read some easy VN and games
>for the first time I can actually use my Japanese skill to do something

Sorry for blogging but thanks you guys.
>>
>>134795101
I got the MOBI ones from here

https://mega.nz/#F!65dD2AhK!KnLYlyy0Ax65qxzWIOLKbA!zxsSVLAK

When I tap and hold on the word it just highlights the hold clause and I have to manually bring it down to the word I want to look up.
>>
>>134795120
>frogposting

You still failed, son.
>>
>>134795128
You need the azw3 ones from here:
https://mega.nz/#F!65dD2AhK!KnLYlyy0Ax65qxzWIOLKbA!2xEEWZCI
>>
>>134795175
Holy shit, thanks so much.
>>
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I know I'm a bit late but; what the fuck?
>>
>>134795386
ESL?
>>
>>134795577
Yes. I expected much more though, at least 20k, seeing as people in the last thread were disappointed if they got under 25,000.

I know the test is approximated rubbish but damn..
>>
>>134795623
You know I always thought I had a huge fucking vocabulary since I never stopped reading since I was a kid but it turns out I was just guessing at the meanings of many of the words I came across. Learning Japanese has influenced me such that I look up words when reading now. Pretty strange huh?
>>
>>134790902
>japanese experts
>>
>>134790156
I know you're baiting, but I actually did this in a roundabout way. I fell into a habit of reading 1 entry from DOBJG every morning. Before I knew it, I'd finished the whole book.

I wasn't a beginner though -- I'd already been reading quite a bit. I wouldn't recommend it as a way to learn grammar, but it will definitely fill in some blanks and teach you some nuances you didn't know you didn't know. Particularly stuff you already mostly understand and so would never look up (such as に, or が).
>>
>>134795120
Nice to hear, anon. Now make sure to never stop consuming new content and you'll eventually make it.
>>
>70% products in this world are in English
>some people still have a hard time learning English
Everything is going to be daijoubu.
>>
I'm a relatively advanced intermediate learner (could probably pass N1 without preparing for it if I tried), but I've never read many VNs so I figured I might as well broaden my horizons a bit.

So, what's the best VN?
>>
>>134790031
You are fucking dumb if it took you 4 months to realize that.
>>
>>134792410
Don't aim to sound like a native, aim to be multilingual.
>>
春眠暁を覚えず
>>
私あなたのことが大好きです!

what's こと
I'm sure you can form this sentence without it
Jisho says its "things" or something
>>
>>134796323
>I'm sure you can form this sentence without it
How sure are you?
>>
>>134796323
You should at least go through TK dude
>>
>>134796344
now I have doubts
can you form this sentence without it?
>>
>>134796221
Euphoria.
It really puts your skills to the test.
>>
>>134796372
You can. I was just checking.
>>
>>134796384
I said best, not hardest. I don't mind if you recommend me Hanahira if you think that's the best VN.
>>
>>134796323
>what's こと
Probably shouldn't be trying to rewrite peoples' Japanese if you're asking this
>>
>>134796308
Yeah, I watched Yuru Yuri too.
>>
>>134796431
いやーでもさ、難しくないないなら面倒じゃね?
>>
>>134796323
The japanese like going in rounds without getting to the main topic.
>>
>>134796533
Are you drunk?
>>
>>134795386
>>134795623
It's because you only consume lowbrow media that's primarily aimed at teenagers.
>>
>>134796323
こと is the generic word used for abstract things (もの is for concrete things). This particular use of こと is a very peculiar use of the word which even natives have a hard time explaining. It's said that it's there to make the sentence more indirect hence more elegant/polite/Japanese.
>>
>>134796722
You're explaining shit that he can look up in 5 seconds, i.e. encouraging lazy behaviour.
>>
>>134796533
>難しくないないなら面倒じゃね?
日本語でプリーズ
>>
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>>134796719
N-no
>>
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1418459574

日本はでっかいだべ
>>
>>134796847
ちんまいぜよ
>>
>>134796795
http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/t.aspx

There's some pretty standard English literature.
You're completely hopeless if there are more than ten words in it that you don't know.
>>
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How the fuck am I supposed to know when to use one and not another?
>>
Do you guys watch anime?
>>
>>134797392
You learn it kanji by kanji. There are hatless variants too, like the one in 良い.
>>
>>134795386
Oh, I know that test.

Did you scroll all the way to the right on the first page? There's a whole column of answers that's entirely offscreen.
>>
>>134797454
No one who's advanced past a basic understanding of Japanese would ever be seen watching anime.
>>
>>134797485
That's just your spazzy browser.
>>
>>134797085
>It's because you only consume lowbrow media that's primarily aimed at teenagers.
>Links fucking LOVECRAFT
Are you kidding dude? Is that high literature to you?
>>
>>134797558
Ah, thank you. I was wondering if it was ok to continue watching or not.
>>
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>>134797392
もういっこ、たまにみるとおもうよ。おにいちゃん
>>
>>134797616
>I was wondering if it was ok to continue watching or not.
Read Tae Kim
>>
>>134797581
It's average level stuff, mate. Anime is baby tier.
>>
>>134797085
That was a fun read. I need to pick up one of his books sometime.
>>
>>134797638
Whatever you say, dip poop.
>>
>>134797656
K, nerd.
>>
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>>134797564
Sure.

But omitting an entire column is a good reason not to get a score like this.

Also, reminder that if you're not looking up the words you're checking to make sure they mean what you think they mean (long-click, 'define' on any decent phone), it's only measuring how many words you *think* you know.
>>
>>134797638
Because anime is english right
>>
>>134797768
I didn't have any missing columns.

>Also, reminder that if you're not looking up the words you're checking to make sure they mean what you think they mean (long-click, 'define' on any decent phone), it's only measuring how many words you *think* you know.
That's a given.
>>
>>134797768
Shut up you stupid faggot.
>>
>>134797852
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMOvlzn5hr8
It is, if you want it to be.
>>
>>134797085
Well here's ten words in order that I didn't know from this piece. Don't mind the time it took me to read, I got interrupted by a phone call

Prosaic
Woven
Dryad
Abode
Declivity
Sylvan
Throng
Brier
Monomania
Vigil

I honestly doubt most natives know them.
>>
>>134797901
in reading order*

Won't help my case if I forget to write words
>>
>>134797901
I'm native and I didn't know a bunch of words but they were all horror/occult related.

I know everything from your list except monomania which sort of(?) belongs to the aforementioned category.
>>
>>134797901
Anyone who has managed to graduate from middle school will know most of those.
>>
>>134797901
>Prosaic
Ordinary
>Woven
Produced by interleaving threads, i.e. cloth
>Dryad
A woodland spirit; a tree-person
>Abode
Where something lives
>Declivity
Inclination not to do something
>Sylvan
Pertaining to the woods/forests
>Throng
Large crowd of people; bustle of activity
>Brier
Patch of particularly spiky undergrowth
>Monomania
Cult of personality
>Vigil
Standing watch over something, particularly for religious reasons

No google, bro
>>
>>134798083
You got two of them wrong
>>
>>134798083
>Declivity
>Monomania
8/10's not bad. These two were guesses from separating the words into their components.
>>
If you were to watch anime every day for a year could you get sex with girl?
>>
Test your vocabulary:
http://jp.morpheem.com/text#!/estimate-intro
>>
>>134798152
I did and I did, so I guess yes.
>>
>>134798188
This bolsters my weeb spirit.
>>
>>134798185
I'm not sitting through all that bullshit.
>>
>>134798188
うぁぁぁ

すげぇぇぇぇぇ

かっこいい

舐めたい
>>
>>134797901
>I honestly doubt most natives know them.

ESLs pls just find a new home, this shit is so annoying.
>>
>>134798301
You try reading science fiction in my language, then we'll talk.
>>
>>134798301
Not the guy you're replying to, but what am I considered if I learned English as a first language at home while also acquiring German at the same time outside of the home I grew up in?
Obviously while living in a German speaking country.
>>
>>134798323
I'm not the one on an imageboard in your native language telling you what native speakers are supposed to know. All those words are really basic anyway, see >>134797970. Stop thinking you know my language just because you played WoW for half a decade.
>>
>>134798370
ESL.
>>
>>134798185
>You understand 710 Japanese words

I swear I know more than that.
>>
>>134798370
Just go around and brag that you have 2 native languages. That's what I do anyway.
>>
>>134798407
It's not my second language though.
>>
>>134798397
>telling you what native speakers are supposed to know
Perhaps you should take some English lessons as well, because I haven't said you were or weren't supposed to know anything.
>>
>>134798370
In my experience, these people are usually seriously lacking in one of the two languages.
>>
>>134798472
>I honestly doubt most natives know them.
>>
>>134798472
Leave ESL kiddie.
>>
>>134798497
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/doubt
>>
>>134798185
>660
I'm not really that far into vocabulary so that sounds about right. I had a brain fart on a couple of stupid words though.
>>
>>134798525
The implication is still there. But you wouldn't know anyway. In any case the fact still stands that these words are easily recognisable by any native English speaker so your point is invalid.
>>
>>134798580
>The implication is still there.
Only if you're an anal babby.
>so your point is invalid.
Sure it is, you don't have to be so upset.
>>
>>134798525
>Archaic fear.

>I honestly doubt (fear that) most natives know them [because that would make me feel inadequate].

Is this what it's all about then?
>>
>>134798525
"I doubt" is an idiom, you poorly-grasping-English-yet-somehow-being-sanctimonious motherfucker.
>>
>>134798608
It's okay friend you don't have to hurl insults at me just accept the fact that you're not as good as this language as you think you are :')
>>
>>134798580
I'm not the poster you're replying to but I know several native English speakers that wouldn't know all of those words.

I'm one of them.
>>
>>134798185
14,260
Ok. Halfway there.
>>
>>134798496
Yeah, a friend of mine who is the same as me is quite a lot worse at German than he is at English. Not seriously lacking, not bad, but just by far not as good as his English.

Though I was taught how to read quite some time before we actually learned it in School and I read a lot of books in German as a child, so that probably made a difference.
I generally prefer English since it feels a whole lot more "lightweight" (for the lack of a better word) when compared to German, but I'm equally proficient in German.
>>
>>134798682
Certified idiots don't count.
>>
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>>134798185
Nice. Though I'd probably shave about 3k to 4k words to this number. Judging by the 10k mature words I have on Anki and the words I mined but have yet to grasp fully, 15k words sounds about right.
>>
>>134798650
see >>134798650
XD
>>
>>134797392
I think the rightmost form usually only appears on the left, except 慨 and 概.
>>
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>>134798627
>>Archaic fear.
>using the fourth given definition when the three other ones make so much more sense in the context
How kind of you to directly tell me you are doing damage control.

>>134798637
>"I doubt" is an idiom
What, it's not archaic fear anymore?

>>134798650
And you have to accept the fact that 'to doubt' means 'to be uncertain of' and isn't a roundabout way to say you should do something, or are fearful of something.
>>
>>134798847
You already told everyone you have shit vocabulary with your very first post. If anything you're the one carrying out damage control by continuing this farce.
>>
so I've been watching anime (japanese + subs) for two years now, something like 5 hours a day. I know hiragana and katakana, do you think that turning off the subtitles and watching raw anime will improve my japanese level? Someone said this is very useful, any advice? I also speak italian, so I'm kinda used to speak in more than one language (and the italian pronunciation is quite similar to japanese)
>>
I was talking with my ex host-family dad, and he said something along the lines of "Want anything from here? We'll send it to you".

I really want a mahjong set, but the shipping fees would be atrocious, and he would no doubt offer to pay for it.
How do I say "If you'll let me pay for it, there's one thing I'd like"?

I'd go with "私が払ったら、欲しい物一つがある。", but it doesn't exactly convey the feeling I want, and it may sound like "If you're making me pay" instead of "If you'll LET me pay"
>>
>>134798892
I'm starting to believe I have 'shit' vocabulary because I don't consider mistaking a word for another as correct, unlike you and muh idioms.
>>
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>>134798185
>>
>>134798938
>implying that was me
>>
>>134798185
Not even going to attempt this.

I probably don't even know 200 words.
>>
>>134798847
>>134798938
FUCK OFF ESL SUBHUMANS LEAVE NOW LEAVE NOW LEAVE NOW

YOU DON'T KNOW ENGLISH UNLESS YOU CAN READ SHAKESPEARE WITHOUT A DICTIONARY AND UNDERSTAND CHAUCER AND MALORY, I'M BEING ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SERIOUS. GO BACK TO YOUR INFERIOR, CULTURALLY IRRELEVANT HOMELAND AND SHITPOST THERE.
>>
>>134799006
キモい
>>
>>134799032
Why yes you are.
>>
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>>134798185
>>
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lol no
>>
>>134798185
Lots of words I didn't know were in kana only and weren't clickable. Guess I need to read more.
>>
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>>134798185
>hit the I understand all words button on every sentence
>this score
Does it just give you a random number?
>>
>>134798185
>23,740

whatever
>>
>>134799231
>Yu need about 3850 to understand a newspaper and express yourself fluently
This is fucking ridiculous
>>
>>134799231
Have you done it before?
>>
>>134798922
Japanese subs (from kitsunekko, for example) help a lot with sounds / pronunciation

English subs improve your comprehension by associating audio with meaning as you watch, but be careful -- you need to really focus on the audio, not tune it out. Also subs can be liberal as fuck. So you still need to study the vocab closely. (Read the Guide. you can plug the japanese sub file into JTAT and use anki to master the vocab)

Raws are best but only if you are at the level where you can follow them, otherwise you're just listening to gibberish. At the beginner stage you will benefit most by watching raws after you have already studied the ep's vocab
>>
>tfw can read all of this
>>
>>134799231
It seems to take your first result and add to it.
23,040
23,510
23,630
23,840
23,990
24,200
>>
>>134799365
What manga is this?
>>
>>134799478
ガンスリンガー・ガール
>>
What does it mean when a small ょ follows え?

Tae Kim didn't teach me about this.
>>
>>134799518
It's just one of these sounds that Japs make when they're too befuddled to speak normally.
>>
To the people doing RTK and think you need to write to learn Japanese: watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJNxPRBvRQg
>>
>>134793296
Furigana doesn't help a lot for knowing what the kanji imply though, like that kanji used for か, I got no idea what it implies or adds or anything
>>
>>134799518
Does someone have a dick in their mouth?
>>
>>134799614
This is the stupidest shit in the world. If people want to write, let them fucking write. Just because some natives are retarded doesn't mean you should lower yourself to their standard. It's like posting a video of some ghetto niggers and saying "hurr hurr to the people learning to speak proper english look at the slang they're using". Sure it's not a proper analogy but learning to write is a perfectly valid thing to do so you have no place telling people what to do at all.

If you were wondering, I've never used RTK.
>>
>>134799707
Yes, you can learn to write if you want. You don't need to learn to write or memorize the radicals to read or type though. Some people argue the opposite, even saying things "if you can write you are not fluent", etc. Also your analogy isn't completely irrelevant. A good analogy doesn't exist. The closest example would be spelling, however you need to speed to type so English spelling is better than Japanese kanji writing in which you don't use kanji writing to type.
>>
>>134799614
Heisig clearly has a big untapped market for his shit there.
>>
>>134799365
>feuertrunken

Wasn't it "freudetrunken"?
Also, the German on the top left is garbage.
>>
>>134799775
How the fuck did I manage to type so many errors into one post?
can't*
is*
spell*
>>
>>134799776
For what purpose would the people in that video need to learn to write kanji?
>>
>>134799853
Dignity.
>>
>>134799775
As someone who's been on this thread for close to two years... when writefags get obnoxious about other learners being unable to write, that's just a sign to ignore them. You usually can blow them the fuck out really easily like so:
>If you can't write kanji you don't know kanji.
>Define "know".
But even that usually isn't worth the effort. Just ignore them. They can do something others can't and they will go to their fucking grave bragging about it.
>>
>>134799614
>Celebrating ignorance
Fuck spelling too, right?
>>
>>134799947
>write in kana
>literally nothing was lost
>>
>>134790638
I need to stop posting my Flyable Heart stuff right before I go to sleep. I hope you are still around.

**Flyable Heart Spoilers**: The heart theory just popped into my head, I didn't think it was true at all. When Mayuri was talking about Sakurako getting the heart in the Yui-verse, she was talking about losing something important to get it, which I had no idea what she was talking about at the time and assumed I was misunderstanding the Japanese somehow. Then I saw how she acted when she met Shou's dad and that is when it popped into my head. About 1 hour after I posted my theories, Shou's dad died and Sakurako found a donor, so I knew I was right. I was really surprised.

I could only figure it out because I had already done Amane and Yui though. That is what makes this game so interesting.

It didn't really affect how I felt about her personality change because I couldn't think of how that could be connected with his dad. Initially I thought she really felt that way, but later I was also thinking that if she is such a good actress, maybe she was putting on that act for a reason.

I'm still wondering why the President has her apartment key and was willing to marry her to keep it. Hope to figure that out soon.


Reply if you read this, otherwise I'll post it again tonight.
>>
>>134799775
I'm trying to learn how to read Japanese without writing.

I'm terrible at writing in English and absolutely loathe doing it. I haven't written anything other than my signature since I graduated.

To me typing is so much easier and legibility is never an issue.
>>
>>134799901
Trust me they know how to write them. It's just that when you go a long time without writing essays or whatever they write in school you can't produce words that easily especially those that you wouldn't write very often.
>>
>>134799988
Thousands of years of culture would be lost.
>>
>>134800099
And as a foreign language learner, I never intend to write school essays in the first place, so why start?
>>134800112
It will be preserved in digital text just fine. And not like culture fading is necessarily a bad thing mind you, remember Ozymandis - time erodes all. It's just a matter of time.
>>
Anyone else write only because it helps them retain all this better? I even write out notes when I'm studying Tae Kim or whatever, then re-write to make it easier for me to refer back to later.
>>
>>134800181
Which part in my fucking post did I ask anyone to learn how to write huh? Fucking moron.
>>
>>134800270
You OK pal? Need some warm milk?
>>
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>read 霞外籄逗留記 to get better
>grammar is kind of hard but the only real trouble is the incredibly obscure vocabulary
There's no fuckin' way around it. I *have* to read newspapers. There's simply no other way to get concentrated doses of the "real life" vocabulary I need. Fucking hell. Not even the Final Boss is hard enough the areas I need it to be
>>
>>134800181
>And not like culture fading is necessarily a bad thing mind you, remember Ozymandis - time erodes all. It's just a matter of time.

You know, I agree, worrying about Earthly immortality of any form, whether it's individual fame, cultural heritage, great monuments or works of literature, etc. is a very pagan mindset. The only true immortality is that granted us by God in heaven, the Earthly world means nothing.
>>
>>134798933
払わせたら?

I'm not good at Japanese, but I know you use causative for letting someone do something, so maybe this is the word you would use.
>>
>>134800288
No I'm not. You could at least pay me the basic courtesy of reading my post before typing out a knee-jerk response.
>>
>>134800399
I don't know about the pagan mindset or anything. I just don't believe it's very constructive to consider culture valuable and worth preserving just because it exists. Not as in, preserving history books or works of art, but as in preserving the fluid societal culture such as writing kanji or what have you. To me, trying to preserve the act of writing kanji is as equally silly as trying to preserve 60s fashion. It's not objectively bad, but it's not something that NEEDs to exist, and not something the world would be that worse off without. I mean, to you, you may say "thousands of years of culture lost!", but to a child being raised in 2100, it'd just be "thank god I don't have to write those kanji! what the fuck were they thinking!".
>>134800444
You're the one jerking your knee.
>>
>>134799798
>Also, the German on the top left is garbage
Looks quite fine to me.
>>
>>134800099
I guess if someone held a gun to their head or offered them a billion yen they might have done better?
>>
>>134800553
That's a lot of mental gymnastics to justify to yourself that you don't need to learn writing. You just don't want to learn writing because it doesn't fit your goals and this
>To me, trying to preserve the act of writing kanji is as equally silly as trying to preserve 60s fashion. It's not objectively bad, but it's not something that NEEDs to exist, and not something the world would be that worse off without.
is just a fucking disingenuous statement, mate.
>>
>>134799947
Except you need spelling to type, you don't need to write kanji to type. That is why writing kanji is irrelevant.
>>
>>134801047
Huh? I'm not using it as justification for not writing. I was replying to >>134800112 specifically.
>>
Word of the day: 謀反

読み間違えたでしょう
>>
>>134799798
>beethoven's lyrics
>bad german
Okay, buddy.
>>
>>134801459
Well Beethoven was a Moor, so it's not surprising his German was bad :^)
>>
>>134798847
>And you have to accept the fact that 'to doubt' means 'to be uncertain of' and isn't a roundabout way to say you should do something, or are fearful of something.
Go look up the word "idiom". We'll wait. But you have to go look it up, because it's crucial to understanding why you're wrong.

Gone and looked it up?

Good. Now you should be aware that you cannot discern the meaning of an idiom by looking at the meanings of the individual words.

I'll repeat that, because it's so important: you. can. not. discern. the. meaning. of. an. idiom. from. the. meanings. of. its. constituent. words.

All your smug citing of the dictionary definition of the word "doubt" was just pissing in the wind.

"I doubt X" is an idiom, and it does not mean what its constituent words mean ("I do not believe with certainty that X"); it has an idiomatic meaning of "I believe with certainty that X is not the case".

Thus you were saying "I am certain that native speakers do not/should not know these words", and in doing so you were wrong.

This is why you don't get into pissing matches with people about how their own language is spoken or what their own language means. You simply don't know enough to even know you're wrong.
>>
>>134801595
Do you know who else was a Moor? That's right, your dad who fucked your mom and ran away.
>>
>>134801651
I doubt that.
>>
>>134801771
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/I+doubt+that
>>
>This liberal faggot basically saying "culture doesn't matter, who cares? Muslims just come fuck my shit up!"
All because he doesn't want to learn how to write. Christ almighty.
>>
>>134801869
(that was a joke)
>>
>never do handwriting it won't be useful!!!
>nipnong girl wants to do letter exchanges and I can't write kanji for shit

i fell for the meme
>>
>>134801877
Your lack of intelligence is astounding.
>>134801953
What is printing?
>>
>>134801980
>printing your love letters
Lol, what a cunt.
>>
>>134801980
>sending a printed love letter

You don't understand romance at all.
>>
>>134801980
Your degeneracy is astounding.
>>
>>134801953
Just look up the kanji as you write

>implying you aren't lying
>>
>>134802009
>>134802017
>assuming it's a love letter
They're pen pals you retards.
>>134802030
I'm sure if you look up your ancestry, your forefathers would consider you a degenerate.
>>
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>>134798185
Ganbaru zo ...
>>
>>134802054
He's hoping that they'll turn into love letters further down the line, so the same rules apply.
>>
>>134801651>>134801651
>"I doubt X" is an idiom, and it does not mean what its constituent words mean ("I do not believe with certainty that X"); it has an idiomatic meaning of "I believe with certainty that X is not the case".


What you don't seem to understand is that saying "I doubt xyz" does not have to be idiomatic, and that if your interpretation of his sentence was "English people don't know this!" then it's too bad for you because he obviously, literally meant "It would surprise me to know that native English speakers know the cited words".

I imagine someone at a party asking the host to cut him a piece of cake only for him to reply "What? Is something easy? WTF idioms OMG!!"

You keep calling him out for being think and not accepting being wrong when you are doing the exact same thing.
>>
>>134802133
Remember the italk guy who chatted with Japanese milfs who were desperate for his affection? They loved him because he was a 10/10. Handwriting doesn't mean jack or shit.

Look at it from your own perspective. Would you reject a Japanese girl because she typed her letters? No. Would you reject a Japanese girl because she's ugly? Probably. Handwriting means nothing.
>>
>>134802054
It's not a matter of genealogy. It's your disgusting ideals that make you degenerate.
>>
>>134802153
If English isn't your first language why are you even continuing this conversation? Would you go to 2ch and tell them how to speak Japanese? I don't understand why ESLs in particular are so arrogant on the Internet, far and away the WORST foreign-language learners.
>>
>>134802243
The ideals are what I'm referring to. My grandfather was extremely racist and religious, and I'm neither, so I'd be a degenerate; likewise, I have no doubts that your ideas are degenerate to your own forefathers at some point.

Though, when it comes to handwriting kanji, the only people who actually think it's culturally significant in a meaningful way are probably white virgins, so it's irrelevant either way.
>>
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>>134802252
>If English isn't your first language why are you even continuing this conversation?

Did you even read my post? Or did someone let a cat out of the bag and spilled the beans?
>>
>>134802222
The chances are that he's average at best, so every little bit counts.
>>
Dear Jesus. Please kill all ESL faggots that infest /DJT/. Amen.
>>
>>134802315
Lifting a single barbell a single time would do more for his chances than hand-writing letters.
>>
>>134802252
>Would you go to 2ch and tell them how to speak Japanese?
Yes, being able to do that is the ultimate achievement.
>>
>>134802349
Don't worry, most of them quit when they realise the incredibly easy jump they made from their disgusting native tongue to English doesn't carry over to Japanese.

English native is the best path for learning the language, because you have no frame of reference to compare your progress to.
>>
>>134802349
Fuck arrogant anglos who think they know it all.
>>
>>134802349
So you want /djt/ to die
You should start by leaving and never coming back
>>
>>134802054
>They're pen pals you retards.
Nah, we already met up and fucked lots a month ago or so. I'm that guy that charmed a grill into flying over here and staying for 10 days and she ended up falling in love with me hard.
>>
http://strawpoll.me/6276476
>>
Vocab vs RTK was at least about Japanese.
>>
>>134802497
That's even better, it's not like she's gonna hold off sex or stop loving you because you print letters.
>>
>>134802497
>being a chad
>>
>>134802054
postcards
journals
shopping lists
memos
brainstorming

The above are great to write out with pen and paper. The activity of writing is also beneficial for retention, forces you to slow down and think about what is being written isstead of nutting away at a keyboard with spellcheck, and maybe above all there is no backspace or copypaste. Writing by hand is a good overall exercise for wellbeing and keeping a journal/diary/log of daily events by hand is highly recommended for personal reflection, centering thoughts and productivity. Doing this in the target language really helps address strengths and weaknesses in the ability to express thoughts clearly. Also good for seeing improvement over time in a much more individual manner than computer typed writing.
>>
>>134802633
Nah, it'd defeat the whole purpose of sending physical letters. You're supposed to include a bit of yourself in your letters. He might as well fucking email her if he's only going to send her printed shit.
>>
>>134794634
>People wish they were kids so they could learn a language
>Kids take a year or more before they can even use sounds
>Two years before they can use words
>3 years before they can speak with shit grammar

Children are shit at talking and learning languages. The only advantage they have is that they're exposed 100% 24/7 without worrying about working/money/whatever, and they have a slightly easier time hearing sounds you were never exposed to, but research indicates that even though it's difficult, with training you can hear sounds you never had as a kid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_of_English_/r/_and_/l/_by_Japanese_speakers#Effects_of_training)

Now stop making excuses for your shit motivation, and study.
>>
>>134802727
Perfect solution: Write it on a computer, handwrite it afterwards. She'll never know.
>>
>>134802559
I'm basically a native if I've been speaking nothing but English for the past 10 years, right?
>>
>>134802803
No.
>>
>>134802803
Of course not, filthy ESL. You'll never be a native.
>>
>>134802727
>Nah, it'd defeat the whole purpose of sending physical letters.

Or maybe you just don't want your personal letters being read by every alphabet agency in the Western hemisphere?
>>
>>134802696
>notepad on phone/pc
>does all of those
In any case, I am stunned by how far you're willing to pretend writing has significant benefits. Either way, it doesn't matter. For Japanese, the literal hundreds of hours needed to master writing (and the continued dedication to keep writing in it when it's unnecessary) far outweigh every possible benefit it provides.

Does it help write love letters? Sure. Is it a good exercise for well being? Uh, maybe. Is it worth hundreds of hours of dedicated practice? Hell no.
>>134802727
Yeah, I imagine his words will contain a lot more of himself than scrawled characters. No idea why you guys are being so sentimental over trivial stuff.
>>
>>134802803
NO
>>
>>134802803
I think so.
>>
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>voluntarily having the same arguments with the same people every thread or so
>some of them don't actually care and are just here to shitpost and start arguments to ruin the thread on purpose
>expecting it to go differently this time instead of just ignoring it
>>
>>134802981
I've never seen such intense mantling of the Argumentative Autist.
>>
>>134802803
yes, if you're 12 years old
>>
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>>134802981
That neck is way too long.
There, I've fixed it for you.
>>
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or chance?
>>
>>134803206
But now the hair is fucked up. I agree that the neck is weird, though.
>>
>>134803253
Where's your example sentence bro?
>>
>>134803317
I just envision "これはxです" for every word. Yes, even verbs.
>>
So when I have kana down, I should start study grammar and start reading without knowing any vocab and pick it up as I go, or start a Core2k deck and do that as I try to read?
>>
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I'll just type it up and grind out the kanji for every kanji I need to write until it looks decent
>>
>>134803383
You should study English first you disgusting ESL.
>>
>>134803412

You forgot your comma there, m8.
>>
>>134802803
You can be an honorary native at that point. You've discarded your completely worthless mother tongue, after all.
>>
>>134803435
I omitted it for effect.
>>
what's going on in this thread
>>
>>134803389
>those nails
>those patches of hair
3/10 cut it off
>>
>>134788080
I'm assuming you've been to Japan countless times and have spoken with countless guys to determine they are all beta ass pussies
>>
>>134803389
hella gross hands matey
>>
>>134803519
日本語ができないでいる
>>
>>134803525
2lazy
>>
>>134802153
>I imagine someone at a party asking the host to cut him a piece of cake only for him to reply "What? Is something easy? WTF idioms OMG!!"
Try that paragraph again: it doesn't mean anything.

I imagine what you're driving at is that you're suggesting that whether or not something is idiomatic English depends on context.

Well, guess what: you don't know English well enough to make that particular context call. You accidentally used an idiom that you didn't know and didn't mean to*. You're now claiming that the precise wording you used can also be taken at face value.

I'm telling you now that it can't.

No-one would take that to mean anything other than what everyone took it to mean. This is not one guy engaging in sophistry or wilful ignorance, this is you getting it wrong.

Man up.


* or at least you claim to: the whole thread's right there, and anyone interested can just read it and see for themselves how much like damage-control the whole exchange looks.
>>
>>134803608
tldr lmao
>>
>>134803608
What do you mean driving? Nobody's driving a car here.
>>
>>134803608
>Man up.
Hello argumentative autist-san. Please kill yourself. Thanks.
>>
>>134803608
>Man up.
Oh boy.
>>
>>134803206
>That neck is way too long.
>doesn't even realize the eyes and nose anymore
Don't start this shit, it's negligible.
>>
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>>134802559
>There actually are more ESL than english native

Jesus christ I thought it was a meme like niggerspeak, is this really happening?
>>
>>134803844
Don't forget that Amerilards don't vote.
>>
>>134803844
>frogposting
>EOP

Who wudda thunkit
>>
>>134803844
>ESL
>actually learning Japanese

>natives
>just shitposting
>>
>>134803844
Why would there be more anglos than ESL's here?
>>
>>134803844
The poll's even more disgusting when you consider that there are probably Americans selecting 'English native' despite not being brought up in England.
>>
>>134803844
That's right. And for every ESL you detect there are dozens more in the background slowly fucking up your conception of 'correct English'. Get fucked.
>>
>>134804044
What?
>>
>>134804044
Found a retard
>>
I can't even finish Tae Kim. My head feels like it's gonna explode.
>>
>>134804044
Americans are alright in my book, it's the aussie scum that should be rangebanned.
>>
>>134804345
Take it easy. You don't need to do it all in one day.
>>
>>134799989
I'm awake now, doesn't really matter to me if our posts are hours apart.
Interesting. You figured out a lot more than me but getting spoiled seems to have helped a lot. By the time I realised the different dimensions thing I was past all of that. Also I completely forgot about the Mayuri interactions in Yui's route until now, but now that you mention it, that was a strong clue.
I'm curious, what was the spoiler you got for Yui's route? That'd also affect your expectations going in so you know what to look out for, I genuinely thought flyable heart would just be a fun, plot-free romance story up until Yui saw Shou's dad.
Also I hope it's fine for me to say there's no Mayuri stuff in Suzuno's route, I assume you find out in her game. Everything else gets explained though, look forward to it. If you want you can post what you think will happen so we can look back on it after you're done.
>>
>>134804345
Just go over the entire thing multiple times.
>>
>>134802855
Life is long and failing to take advantage of your time when you are young is something you will regret when you are older. Writing is a form of creative intellectual freedom no one can take away from you.
>>
>>134804394
DO YOU WANT TO KILL HIM?
>>
>>134804345
You don't have to. You can get by fine without the Advanced sections. A lot of other stuff is also mostly archaic grammar you'll never really encounter outside of pre-20th century texts.
>>
>>134804355
The CoR or DoJG deck wouldn't be on DJT if that were the case.
>>
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>>134803255
There, fuck long necks.
>>
>>134804539
Thanks anon. Saved.
>>
>>134804539
Nice work.
>>
>>134804459
>Middle upper beginner: Knows 300 confirmed kanji and isn't afraid to teach early beginners how to learn Japanese despite being beginners themselves. Has left Nama-sensei and is knee deep in Tae Kim's essential section. More or less has anki figured out but is still learning new things.
>>
>>134804493
And nothing of value would be lost?
>>
>>134804708
>implying
>>
Look, ESL scum, burgers and inbred Aussies all have equally shit English and should gtfo. I'm counting britbongs as ESLs since they all speak Arabic and Canadians as burgers since the only real difference is they can't enjoy lolis.
>>
>>134804694
Don't reply to my posts.
>>
>>134804424
Luckily I can write in my native language without having to learn to write chinese characters.
>>
>>134804754
Are you lost?
>>
>>134804755
>>
>>134804708
The DoJG deck is one of the only valuable learning resources this community has created (and even then it was only a few people, not the community as a whole). Pretty much every other valuable resource is taken from somewhere else and has no relation to DJT.
>>
>>134804837
It's also a completely meaningless resource, as the idea of grinding grammar points by their English definitions is so hilariously stupid that only a dumb Anki addict would see any merit in the concept.
>>
Remember: 亜人
>>
Oh geez, it's the "DJT is a bunch of useless leeches" poster again.
>>
>>134804754
You're an ESL yourself, mate.
>>
>>134804928
Nice job showing that you're a retard who doesn't understand the deck.
>>
>>134805081
>you're a retard who doesn't understand the deck.
Is it just me or has there been a huge amount of posts recently about people "not understanding" the DOJG deck? Not to say anything of this argument in particular I just swear I've seen it so often recently.
>>
>>134805040
I'm not whoever you think I am, but it's true. Name a single significant resource / learning tool outside of the main guide, CoR (if those two things even count), and the DoJG deck that DJT has contributed to the Japanese learning community.
>>
>>134805052
>American knowledge of geography
>>
>>134805219
Why should he?
>>
>>134805219
>Name anything apart from these things which you did actually contribute
>>
>>134805219
>name a single significant resource / learning tool outside outside what DJT already made because somehow that doesn't count
Are you retarded?
>>
>>134805269
Well >>134804708 said if the CoR and DoJG were gone, nothing of value would be lost, and that just leaves the guide, which for the most part just links to a bunch of resources from other places.
>>
>>134805363
Then something of value would be lost?
>>
>>134805219
Why do you need to contribute anything? Given these threads started only a couple of years ago, all the actually useful material had already been invented.

There are countless grammar guides. Anki works great. There are decks for pretty much anything you could ever want to grind using Anki, and lots of completely worthless ones for retards like fucking kana decks and grammar decks.

Past beginner stage, studying is just consuming native content, and googling explanations for weird idioms you come across.
>>
>>134805219
I think this whole line of thinking is misguided because DJT is mostly beginners with some intermediates peppered in. Why would foreigners to the language trying to learn be expected to make stuff? The only real avenues are to compile existing resources made by people fluent in the language, which was done in the resources pastbin and the main guide document. I think that's pretty good, and really the most you should expect.

It's also important to note that, in my opinion, every really necessary/important Japanese resource is already made. We have tons of grammar guides available, we have tons of anki decks available, what more is there? What do we need to make? Core6k + DOJG deck + radical deck + Taekim/imabi/dojg/genki/etc + Chiitrans + Rikai + native material = success. What do you suggest adding to this formula? I'm drawing blanks.
>>
Speaking of the guide:

What changes would you like to see to the guide? I'm thinking of writing a new guide sometime in the near future since I feel like the current one is isn't quite cutting it.
I'll also split the guide and the resources into separate documents, but that's a minor thing.

Happy learning.
>>
>>134805407
There's nothing wrong with kana decks, buddy.
>>
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>>134802981
>some of them don't actually care and are just here to shitpost and start arguments to ruin the thread on purpose
>>
>>134805580
Ultimately, all I would like to see is Krashen/Steve philosophy injected more into the introduction. I also think it would be more beneficial if the guide focused more on practical advice in the beginning with more "trivia" type information in the back, for example instead of giving a history lesson. For example:
>Hiragana (ひらがな) is the syllabary used most commonly in Japanese. Hiragana are an (extremely) cursive form of the Manyogana. A character for the sound ‘ya’ in Manyogana, for example, is 也. The character for ‘ya’ in Hiragana is や, and is derived from 也. The Hiragana actually came about later than the katakana. The Hiragana are said to be created by a group of noble women, and the Hiragana are generally used to write Japanese phonetically.
90% of this is not helpful. It would be better like:
>Hiragana (ひらがな) is the syllabary (think of it like an alphabet) used most commonly in Japanese. You need to know this to read anything so learn it. It represents every sound in the Japanese language. Therefore, you can theoretically write everything in Hiragana.
And add a link to http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/hiragana for people to learn from - I think the guide should aim to guide people, but not teach people. Therefore, I see it as more beneficial to link to existing learning resources instead of trying to make a whole knew one in the guide. What do you think?
>>
>>134805580
I'd say emphasize thread etiquette a bit more, but no one would listen to it anyways so it'd be a waste of time.
>>
>>134805915
>emphasizing thread etiquette
>on 4chan
Where do you people come from
>>
>>134805219
I made a radical deck and a primer on how chinese characters work.
>>
>>134805580
I just want a complete rewrite. The current one is comprehensive and dense enough that people don't read it. I want a format where it links off to smaller documents with higher quality detail on individual topics, rather than the current monolithic form.
>>
>>134804345
Japanese the Manga Way is really the only valid way to learn.
>>
>>134805580
>>134806021
I agree. Right now most beginners seem to gravitate towards the threads because the guide is too big and confusing. Namely a guide that opens up directly on how to start learning and then goes in more details would be more fitting.
>>
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Found this website called Japaneselevelup.
It claims to make Japanese fun by learning the language as if it's an RPG or some shit (has levels, quests, worlds, etc)
It looks pretty reliable, but should I really be taking this path? Does anyone know if this site is actually any good or not, or would I be wasting my time?
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>>134806138
Don't do gamification unless you absolutely need it to stay motivated. It doesn't work foe people who don't need it.
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If you could trade half of your english vocabulary for japanese vocabulary on a 1:1 ratio would you do it? You'd understand how to write and recognize the kanji and everything.
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>>134806190
Yes, I know about 80k too many english words.
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>>134806101
It should just be to come back after you've read Tae Kim or most of it, when you have a better understanding of learning the language entails.
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>>134806190
Hell no. Why would I forget half a language for another language when I can just not be lazy and learn the entire language from scratch?

Why lose half your native language when you can keep it by actually taking an effort in learning Japanese?
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>>134806190
No way. That'd be like trading dollars for yen, in terms of relative value.
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>>134805844
>I also think it would be more beneficial if the guide focused more on practical advice in the beginning with more "trivia" type information in the back, for example instead of giving a history lesson
>I think the guide should aim to guide people, but not teach people

Exactly my thoughts anon.
I feel like the guide contains too much bloat in places where it should be more to the point. Just some short bouts of information with a practical example a reference to a proper resource which will educate them properly.

I'm also not happy with how it goes about Kanji, because when I read it the first time, and times after that too, I felt like the only way of learning Kanji was RTK. It's a valid method, but just grinding Kanji worked great for me and others, so leading newcomers to believe that there is only one good method is something I'd rather avoid.

>>134805915
How would you go about emphasizing thread etiquette?

The miscellaneous section (will keep that in the guide) is quite clear on proper thread etiquette. How people behave in the thread is a matter of the people, regardless of what a guide tells them, there's no enforcement of DJT specific rules and I'm honestly quite fine with that, people can govern themselves.
Though I'd still be interested to hear your suggestions.

>>134806101
>>134806021
Indeed, this is what I've been thinking. The guide should be more clear on how to go about learning Japanese. It shouldn't be biased towards any methods, but I believe that there is a certain consensus within the DJT on how to approach learning Japanese (e. g. Learning hiragana, grammar, getting a vocabulary basis and reading) which would be what one wants reflected in the guide.
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>>134806286

It would be a lot easier to relearn the words you forgot since you live in your country and have to be exposed to words all day and also understand how your language works perfectly well. It would take a lot more work to memorize the kanji used in the vocab to read the words along with the meaning and uses of the words themselves. The downside is that you might forget some really basic words and look like a retard/baby until you can relearn your vocabulary.
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>>134806138
>>134806170
It's not even real gamification, he just names his pages that way.

Essentially it's just doing reps with Anki, only using his ridiculously overpriced decks.

There's some good pages of information there, esp. related to using Japanese dictionaries, but as far as paying Shapiro, there's really no reason.

If you absolutely must pay money for Japanese learning online, IMO Jpod101 has far and away the best product. Of course, it's on the CoR :^)
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>>134806457
No one fucking cares.
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>>134806529
You quite obviously do.
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>>134806529
Fuck off, retard.
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>>134806457
>I'm also not happy with how it goes about Kanji, because when I read it the first time, and times after that too, I felt like the only way of learning Kanji was RTK. It's a valid method, but just grinding Kanji worked great for me and others, so leading newcomers to believe that there is only one good method is something I'd rather avoid.

I think it might be useful to have a document on just how kanji work. Things that teach kanji to language learners gloss over the things that make kanji intelligible. That itself would let newfags understand the differences between kanji resources better.

>How would you go about emphasizing thread etiquette?
I've managed to "threaten" people into not arguing before by making boogeymans about people starting arguments to get spoonfed.

I think enumerating examples of people arguing for a higher motive might make people treat arguing less like a game.

>It shouldn't be biased towards any methods

I think it certainly should be biased /away/ from certain methods. It needs to say that there are methods that work great, but only for some people. The language learning community does not consider extensive prioritized production to be a good general method for learning/teaching languages, for example. Intelligible reading/listening is king, and anything that has a goal of making that easier, be it memorizing vocab, sentence decks, grammar decks, mining, kanji study, should be treated as obviously better as things that don't prioritize preparing you for input.
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>>134806457
If possible, you should keep the option of kanji through vocab vs individual kanji study (be it RTK, just grinding a kanji deck, etc) open in the guide and emphasize that neither method is necessarily the "best" one for everyone.
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>好きなように描きなさい

This means 'draw what/who you like', correct? What is the purpose of ように here?
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>>134806529
I don't like you dude.
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