Alright, /a/. I don't get it. The 2011 adaptation of Hunter x Hunter is revered by many as extraordinary; a monument of it's medium, and a masterpiece of it's genre. Prior to watching, I had no idea it even boasted such a lofty reputation. I hold a great affection for Yu Yu Hakusho, and so I only gave Hunter a chance by it's author's label. After seeing it through to the end (ayy), I'm absolutely baffled by the overwhelmingly positive reception it's received. I honestly can't fathom that the man who wrote such a prolific shounen manga managed to fumble so badly with his sophomore series.
This show is so rife with missteps, I don't even know where to begin. It's plot is serviceable, and sometimes intriguing, but the staples holding it together are so bent out of shape, the whole thing falls apart. It's characters range from subpar to insufferable, and that's when they're lucky enough to even be written into the narrative. Gon is a somewhat interesting protagonist, but I wish I could say the same for all his friends. Killua is an angsty cliché with legs, and his backstory sounds like it was pasted from a tweenage RP forum. For a boy raised by a family of killer assassins who was bred never to trust or have friends, he sure has an easy time befriending Gon in the literal first 20 seconds that they meet. Kurapika takes the angst up even higher, but thankfully he and Leorio simply stop existing in the story's plot halfway through the series.
What happened to the chemistry? The development of Yu Yu Hakusho's characters is almost unparalleled, with all four protagonists growing and changing together over a long course of time. Yusuke is an almost entirely separate person at the end of the series. The four heroes of Hunter x Hunter become best chums almost immediately, and most of them are nearly identical in their final appearances to their introductions. It's incredibly disheartening, but not nearly as painful as Hunter's storytelling.
At one point, Kurapika reveals that he has the ability to access all five categories of Nen and use them to his full capacity at will. He also has an ability that allows him to capture and defeat any Spider with absolutely no effort whatsoever. He gains these powers immediately after learning to use Nen. In another scene, Killua inconceivably obtains an enormous power boost by removing a pin from his forehead, which was never mentioned prior. In an episode hailed as legendary, Gon gets angry and powers up to defeat an extremely powerful enemy, again with no effort whatsoever. This would be the show's most anticlimactic apex, if it weren't for another string of scenes in which the arc's primary antagonists all die from radiation poisoning off-screen. Except for the King, of course, who decides to stop being a bad guy altogether. I could go on for hours, especially regarding the atrocious asspulling of the final arc, but you get the idea. These are just a few of Hunter's horrendously written plot points, and they take a metal bat to the narrative's knees.
I could sit here for the rest of my weekend trying desperately to understand why this series is regarded as a beacon of greatness in the industry, but I feel I'm getting no closer to clarity. Why, /a/? What am I missing? What makes this series so spectacular?
>What makes this series so spectacular?
It was competing against Naruto, Bleach and Fairy Tail.
AKA the standards are so fucking low that this is the best shonen being currently published whenever Togashi feels like drawing something.
Yu Yu Hakusho has it's share of awful asspulls, I'll never argue that, but at least when Yusuke got angry and slapped the shit out of Sensui with a stupid power boost, it was after Sensui flexed his power and made Yusuke his punching bag. Pitou's strength was hyped up since the beginning of Chimera Ants, and not once did we ever get to see it. Seeing Gon pummel the hell out of an enemy who was implied to be ridiculously strong is a fucking disaster of storytelling. It's actually disgusting.
Gonna play devil's advocate here.
Its possible that its all sort of satire, a jab at shounen.
Killia's an edgelord in background, but he becomes #1 bro. Gon goes through shounen powerup but its supposed to be tragic and somewhat bittersweet, he's effectively trying to commit suicide. Kurapika and Leorio are both chucked out of the story forever despite their popularity. The fact that the big bads are defeated by a nuke hilariously shits on powerlevels.
Its basically Togashi's big "fuck you" to shounen jump. Even his hiatus is a big "fuck you" to, well everyone at this point.
Literally 80% of all shounen action anime follows this pattern
>prot either optimistic/pessimistic about fighting
>fluctuation in who's winning, usually leaning towards prot losing
>prot about to lose
>all of a sudden turns the battle around and wins
And this didn't even happen all that often with Gon, at least not compared to Yu Yu Hakusho. That literally happened with every single major fight in YYH, especially with Yusuke.
But yeah, not everyone's gonna like the same thing, even if the majority here seemingly does. Nothing wrong with that.
You can sling pompous jabs around all you want, but if you're not going to propose any counterpoints, then you may as well just be shitting on your keyboard.
HxH being a satire is the only possible way I can justify some of the shit that's written into the series. Unfortunately I don't think that was the intent, and I definitely don't think that's how it was perceived.
>not once did we ever get to see it.
Killing Kite. Surviving a blow from the King. Remote controlling an army of soldiers around a country. Surviving a blow from Netero. Developing one of the best healing abilities of the entier series.
Your arguments are full of shit.
>then you may as well just be shitting on your keyboard.
Considering that's what you did with the first two posts, there's no need to propose or counter anything.
You're the one who has to work harder to make your arguments worth replying to.
Killua's needle was a moment of character development; he finally overcame his brother's conditioning because his desire to protect his friend overrode it.
Your other two examples are characters gaining the ability to win a fight, and making every other aspect of their life disastrously worse in the process. Kurapika becomes a murderer and locks himself into a death-revenge grudgematch that his friends barely pull out of, and Gon reduces himself to beef jerky and burns a lifetime of potential and inborn talent on a five-minute fight.
Being able to win a fight doesn't always lead to a happy ending in HxH; this is something the show harped on pretty regularly. Are you sure you watched it?
>I don't think that was the intent
You should really see the shit Togashi flings at shounen jump. Not only that, just the fact that he scribbles out drawings and makes them publish it is another hilarious "fuck you"
It may not be a satire played straight but a lot of stuff is definitely Togashi just spiting shounen jump. I think I could even argue the gore is just to piss them off (though I definitely have a weaker argument for that).
It sounds like you've just ignored a huge number of plot points (and corresponding criticisms for YYH, how are you going to complain about Kurapika, Gon san etc when demon Yusuke exists? How are you going to hate edgelord Killua and Kurapika but like Hiei?). Like you switched off your brain midway through after realizing it's not an exact parallel for the series you've got a nostalgiaboner for.
>Killua is an angsty cliché with legs
Assassin Killua is an edgy cliche, HA->GI Killua is a a fun, normal kid, Killua in CA arc is a soft hearted, but self centered person who is unhealthily dependent on Gon, Killua post CA arc finally has his own goal and distances himself from Gon.
>he sure has an easy time befriending Gon
No shit, he was literally mid rebellion and looking for fun
>The development of Yu Yu Hakusho's characters is almost unparalleled
The development of Killua and Gon's relationship has significantly more depth and enough chemistry that most people see a romantic relationship between them, Kurapika is not a perfectly friendship oriented person, and Leorio hasn't got his time to shine yet.
>He also has an ability that allows him to capture and defeat any Spider with absolutely no effort whatsoever.
And he is severely limited by the threat of death and the inability to use it on anyone else. He trains for it, just like everyone else, but happens to be extremely smart.
>which was never mentioned prior
Except for all the times Illumi's needles were shown in action, and the scenes of Illumi manipulating Killua's mind.
>again with no effort whatsoever
It was a fucking suicide attempt by a guilt ridden child, it's not an expression of hard work.
>primary antagonists all die from radiation poisoning off-screen
Thematically driven deaths are a problem for you?
>who decides to stop being a bad guy altogether
Who developed slowly over the length of a huge arc
You honestly just sound like you wanted a generic, YYH/DBZ style battle shounen.
A work having different priorities or a different message than its contemporaries doesn't make it "satire." HxH is still shonen, but it has a more nuanced view on the nature of "power," and doesn't present combat prowess or sheer willpower as the be-all, end-all of one's personal growth. It has more in common with traditional fantasy/adventure stories in that regard.
The one element I could see being directly satirical is the last phase of the Hunter exam -- a tournament arc that literally plays out backwards, and ends prematurely, because the tests of skill, resourcefulness and intelligence that came before were more important.
Are you stupid? Killua was programmed, conditioned to obey Illumi's orders at all times, but his ability as a human being to make individual choices overwrites it. The needle is just a metaphor, as is Killua sending Illumi back home in the Election arc.
Kurapika sacrifices any kind of mental health he had remaining for the small power up he gets, I dunno why you're so fixated on power levels when they're barely relevant in a series like HxH.
>Except for the King, of course, who decides to stop being a bad guy altogether.
"wauht r thhemes? i wanted a big showdown with the evil bad guy"
>willfully ignores every explanation for every powerup so you can use the word "inconceivably"
>calls Killua an edgelord while ignoring all of the backstory that says he's not an edgelord
>hurr durr angst is bad flat characters lmao
Ok pal. Opinion discarded.
How is it possible to be this obtuse? It's supposed to be a completely one sided and unfair fight, if Gon was the underdog his powerup would be misconstrued as righteous. It is not supposed to be righteous, Gon isn't supposed to look like a hero, the scene is supposed to be miserable and depressing. We are supposed to be shocked and horrified by a kid absolutely MASSACRING someone on a suicidal rampage. This is not the normal way a battle shounen MC is portrayed, because they are supposed to be beacons of victory, hard work and friendship, but it turns Gon's stereotypical battle shounen MC traits against him- his determination, optimism and love for his friends essentially turn him into a monser.
It was excellent storytelling, unless your main concern is powerlevels and fights. And only retards value those things above character development, which was the entire point.
Kite was barely around long enough for the audience to scale how strong he even was. It's not as if she one-shotted some hugely powerful and prominent protagonist. The only actual fight she gets in other than with Gon is with Netero, and that was barely even a fight. They built up Netero's attack for what felt like a decade, and the payoff was seeing it do literally nothing and having her leave to go so something else. Anyway, my point is, if you're going to spend an entire arc implying that a character is insurmountably powerful, the least you can do is let her prove it.
90% of all fights in HxH are ridiculously one-sided, and while that's quirky and groundbreaking and deconstruction of the yeah sure cool, it makes for some truly anticlimactic scenes. Frequently.
It isn't the emotional implications of all these events that are the problem. You can wrap an abhorrent plot device in feelings, but that doesn't excuse them. The needle in Killua's head was completely out of nowhere, and Gon's battle with Pitou deflated all the tension out of the arc almost on it's own. It's nice and all that there's some thought provoking morality to take from it, but it doesn't magically fix the writing.
>Kite mentored by Ging
>nigh effortlessly kills Chimera Ants squadron leaders
Come on dude. If that's not enough you're going to need Togashi to personally write you a fucking power level chart for you to understand.
>You can wrap an abhorrent plot device in feelings, but that doesn't excuse them
You're basically saying
>I don't care how much value this plot point has for character or thematic development, it needs to be constantly talked about before it happens in order to justify it's existence
We had so much fucking foreshadowing for Killua and Illumi's needle. It wasn't a shock to anyone who paid attention. What do you think that scene in the hunter exam was? Illumi being super charismatic and controlling Killua with his personality? And Gon vs Pitou is one of the highlights of the series, not for the fight (which is irrelevant, it's not a proper fight) but for the emotional impact and shock value.
I'm not a moron; I know what the narrative was trying to get me to feel. I understand that I was supposed to be shocked and appalled at Gon's actions, but I was only left extremely irate. Gon's breakdown struck me less as a compelling twist of his character and more as an abrupt and jarring betrayal of it. Perhaps the anime rushed Kite's appearance, but I was never at all invested in his attachment to him. I didn't feel the same pain when Kite died, nor did I relate remotely to Gon as he threatened to murder a little girl. The whole thing seemed to me more like an overblown temper tantrum than a gripping play on shounen cliches. But hey, I don't know, maybe that just boils down to some difference in my wiring than most people apparently have.
It doesn't need to be consistently talked about, but it certainly needs to be addressed. What you're saying is "I don't care if a character utilizes an abrupt Kubo level plot point, as long as it develops his character". I absolutely do not agree. Writing needs to be more than just evocative; it needs to be well structured. That's the problem I have with the series on the whole. It's praised to high heavens for being emotional, but the story itself is structured like a termite mound.
>more as an abrupt and jarring betrayal of it
We see his relation to Ging in what, a few brief flashbacks? And I'd hardly relate his ability to mop up some bad guys to his depth of character. That's like saying Hanzo was a fleshed out character because
>flashback says he was raised to be really strong
>breaks Gon's arm
Let's get real, here.
1. Have you considered that the most tense, dynamic struggles in HxH aren't the fights? I'm talking about stuff like the tests in the Hunter Exam, or the hostage situation in Yorkshin, or the volleyball match in Greed Island. These scenes have most of the qualities that you would look for in fights in other series -- characters revealing new powers and outsmarting each other, contests of will, escalating stakes -- Togashi just mixes things up more.
2. Have you considered that you might be frustrated because the show didn't play out according to your expectations? When I first watched it, the Yorkshin arc pissed me off, because I was jonesing for more crazy fights, and I didn't get them. I appreciate it a lot more in retrospect, though, because I realized that the struggle wasn't finding a way to beat Chrollo -- it was figuring out a resolution to the conflict that didn't leave most of the characters on both sides dead. Pakunoda was the only character who figured one out, and she had to die in order to execute it.
>Killua's needle was a moment of character development; he finally overcame his brother's conditioning because his desire to protect his friend overrode it.
It would've been cool if it was a metaphorical need but it was an actual fucking needle. How does Togashi manage to fuck up simple character development? The only reason Killua was controlled was due to mind control and not past trauma? What horseshit.
And also the whole scene took way too fucking long with him getting in the fight and finally pulling the damn thing.
>I understand that I was supposed to be shocked and appalled at Gon's actions, but I was only left extremely irate.
Because you didn't get a cool epic fight or because you thought what he was doing was wrong?
>Gon's breakdown struck me less as a compelling twist of his character and more as an abrupt and jarring betrayal of it.
I think you had a pretty poor grip on Gon's character then. It's extremely consistent. His optimism causes him to be unable to accept death, and his determination becomes an unhealthy obsession with saving Kite. It's also mentionned several times through the series by different characters that he's not a stable individual.
>I was never at all invested in his attachment to him. I didn't feel the same pain when Kite died, nor did I relate remotely to Gon as he threatened to murder a little girl
How is that relevant? Do you truly have to 100% relate with the protagonist to enjoy a series? You're supposed to distance yourself from him when he threatens to murder an innocent.
>abrupt and jarring betrayal of it
Abrupt and jarring after an entire arc of him having a mental breakdown? An entire series of him being slightly 'off' and having little to no moral compass? Explicit mentions of his inability to handle enemies who show some humanity? And it's not a betrayal of his personality it's, dare I say it (since /a/ gets triggered by this word), a minor deconstruction of the generic battle shounen personality. It's his personality taken to an extreme and treated realistically, instead of idealistically. And yes, it was a temper tantrum fueled by self blame, he's only 12.
And HxH is structured just fine for a battle shounen. Foreshadowing happens to be rather subtle, you have to pay attention. Any complaints you have about the structure can be applied to YYH 10x over, it's hard to take you seriously when you willingly excuse it just because you enjoyed it more (>>134092250).
Kite's character wasn't deep, but it was sufficient.
Eliminate threats to human race, otherwise live in harmony with nature.
His powerlevel could be inferred from his hunter rank and opinions of other characters about him without even needing to see him fight.
Plus he had a really interesting nen ability that contrasted against his character.
>The only reason Killua was controlled was due to mind control and not past trauma?
It was both. That's not difficult to understand, is it?
I agree it is a pretty cheesy scene though.
To it's credit, I loved the Nen system. It was unique, and I think it could have been one of the best supernatural power systems. But Togashi really handles it poorly, giving characters access to absurd abilities right off the bat. I know it's not about the fights and powerlevels, but it IS a battle shounen and there ARE plenty of fights. Seeing the heroes win virtually every time because "thank God I had Togashi's Magic Victory Tonic!" gets obnoxiously stale and repetitive.
I know, I get it, it's about the sacrifices of the characters to use them, not the powers themselves. Unfortunately, Kurapika's sacrifice is that he'll die, but only if he uses it on, you know, not the bad guys. Pretty fucking lenient terms and conditions, that. And Gon's sacrifice may as well have been anything, since Killua uses the dragon balls to wish him back to health anyway.
Sorry man, I just didn't connect to that scene at all. It doesn't help that the whole thing was orbiting around his bond with Kite, which I felt was extremely rushed and not nearly explored deep enough. Relatability is the lynchpin to a good protagonist; the audience cares about their plight and wants them to succeed because they feel like they know them on a personal scale. I didn't have to 100% relate to Gon to enjoy that scene, precisely, but of course I had to have investment in both Gon and Kite to properly appreciate it. I just didn't have it. Thank you though, by the way, for replying with at least moderate civility. I came looking for discussion and understanding, not Mrs. Internet's 2nd Grade Anime class.
As an aside, boy do I regret even mentioning I enjoyed that series, since everyone is determined to call my affection for it hypocritical, as if that has anything to do with anything.
>As an aside, boy do I regret even mentioning I enjoyed that series, since everyone is determined to call my affection for it hypocritical, as if that has anything to do with anything.
You should regret it. HxH is significantly better written than YYH in almost every way, and it is actually relevant because it shows what you like in your battle shounen. It's fine, HxH characters aren't as likable, their friendships aren't as strong, there are more anticlimaxes than fights, and if that's not your preference then that's just the way it is. But you need to stop arguing your feelings then trying to reinforce the point with "and that's why the writing is bad" when it's not, and especially not in comparison to YYH.
Also the anime screwed up their portrayal of Kite and Gon's relationship. It's not a fuck up on Togashi's part.
You fell for the "HxH is good" meme. I did too, OP. Except I realized I'd be had before finishing the Hunter Exam, didn't even bother continuing the manga because of how unimpressed I was.
I thought maybe there was a basis for the amount of hype its fans give it, but it turns out they're just as deluded as narutards.
You say there's no character development, but that's not necesarily true. Your personality doesn't need to change for there to be character development. People don't change that easily, and the fact that they do over time doesn't equate to a good writing. Except for Leorio, everyone did really change. I mean, Gon met his dad and became normal, Kurapika is sort of a gang leader now?, and Killua deserted his family with Alluka. How's that not character development?
Also, as it was noted, Kurapika and Gon had to pay for the power they asked for. I won't say it doesn't feel off, I don't like inmediate power-ups either, and Gon vs Pitou was fucking lame after all that build up... But it's not like it hasn't been established already it's a thing you can do. And the king's relationship with Komugi was super cute.
But anyway, HxH has a bunch more to offer than that. Characters are good, the story is interesting... I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just has a lot of awesome fucking moments. Like, when Gon is hunting Hisoka in the Hunter Exam. Or when Gon and Killua try to take the ball away from Netero, or Gon vs Hanso, or the kids learning Nen. Also, wasn't fun how Hisoka screws with Gon in points during their rematch in the Colliseum thingie? How about when we see Kurapika kick ass with his chain the first time we see him after the exam, when his applying as a bodyguards for the Nostrade family? Weren't the spiders cool? Like, the scene with Chrollo with the fish that eats people indoor was fucking great, and after that we get Chrollo vs the Zoldiec? Or how about when Shizuku arms wrestles with Gon out of nowhere? When they use logic to reason that the King is injured? The first seconds they raid the castle? Morel vs the tiger ant? When Wolfin literally ages when he's about to be killed by the king, just before he says Komugi? When Killua and Gon are chasing Nobunaga and Machi? Or how casual is Gon and Ging's reunion?
I mean, fuck, it's so good.
What shows are you thinking of? Honest question, because in my experience the classic shonen protag with those traits (Goku, Luffy etc.) is never portrayed as at fault for having an entirely selfish moral compass, or a level of determination that borders on obsessive. The only example I can think of is Yusuke from Togashi's prior work, who has trouble settling back down to normal life after the Dark Tournament because he identifies more with the demons' mindset.
>HxH is significantly better written than YYH in almost every way
>HxH characters aren't as likable, their friendships aren't as strong, there are more anticlimaxes than fights
Only in the mind of a HxHtard can these two contradictory statements be simultaneously held and believed with 100% conviction.
Like I said, it's his personality taken to an extreme and treated realistically, instead of idealistically. His optimism prevents him from accepting Kite's death, his determination leads him to hurting himself and others into save Kite, his loyalty devolves into crushing guilt and self blame, those are generic traits for a battle shounen MC but Gon is in a situation where they don't quite 'work'.
What dilemma do you mean? Fighting an enemy who hurt their friend? That's pretty standard, but it usually results in them being the heroes who save the day in a noble and righteous manner, and it's portrayed as a victorious win. The way Gon killed Pitou (brutally, one-sidedly, without coming up from the losing position as the underdog, without working hard for it, after she showed some humanity) stripped it of all the good things that usually come with a revenge plot for an MC.
I didn't complain, he's pretty much a gag character compared to the others. I was just saying that he's the same guy as the beginning. Probably because all he did was studying in a place far far away.
On what fucking planet are they contradictory? Unlikable characters and weak relationships are often the best written because they have proper flaws and room for development, which is absolutely the case for HxH. Anticlimaxes are not inherently bad at all, they are a particularly good strategy to prevent power creep in a long running shounen and usually result in unconventional climactic moments elsewhere in the arc.
But despite both of those points, it's understandable that someone might not find it enjoyable as a matter of personal taste.
>Unlikable characters and weak relationships are often the best written
For HxH fantards maybe. For those of us who haven't drunk the Koolaid and still enjoy things without being a member of a mindless cult, it makes for extremely tedious stories because there is very little for us to care about.
Agreed. The problem with OP is that he's pretending his personal dislike for anticlimaxes or emotionally charged storytelling is "bad structure" or "asspulls", rather than just saying it's not his thing and he preferred YYH's more traditional shounen approach.
Are you kidding me? The series constantly portrays Goku, the one who made this archetype popular, as an incredibly selfish individual whose actions come to bite him in the ass. He himself states that he was in the wrong for letting Vegeta go. He decides to stay dead because it's his fault the androids came, he could have taken care of them when Trunks told him about them (remember how he shut down the proposition of finding Gero with the dragon just because he wanted to fight them?).
And then there's the Super Saiyan transformation. The entire point of that was to turn Goku into a completely sadistic monster, he was completely out-of-character and that was stated multiple times by multiple characters. The series establishes s a parallel to the Piccolo Daimao arc where, again, Goku's own selfish desires led him to a revenge-seeking mission, ignoring Roshi's judgement. Except here he develops and actually managed to control himself later on.
I was mainly thinking about DBZ, because it was Goku who made the archetype popular, but I honestly can't see HOW he ISN'T portrayed as a selfish asshole, when the creator himself said he was.
>But Togashi really handles it poorly, giving characters access to absurd abilities right off the bat.
It's not handled poorly though. The abilities come with downsides right off the bat. Kurapika's ability, for exemple, isn't as OP as you think it is. Sure in a 1vs1 fight it's pretty much a guaranteed win if he doesn't act like a retard, but against more than that it's pretty useless. This is directly adressed in the series, by the way. Not to mention that all the Troupe members now know how his abilities work.
As for Alluka, that's an entirely different matter altogether. Even then Gon lost his nen and damaged his friendship with Killua for good.
>which I felt was extremely rushed and not nearly explored deep enough
I think you're undermining their relationship. Kite saved Gon's life like what, 3 times? That alone is more than enough to feel endebted to someone for life. Not to mention he was the reason Gon went on his adventure in the first place, he taught him about Ging being alive and hunters in general and pretty much gave him a goal.
I don't think it really was about Kite anymore by the end anyway. Gon felt that what happened to him was his fault, so it was more about him trying to fix his fuck up.
Maybe you're right and you just see things differently but maybe it'll help you see it the way i do.
> Unlikable characters and weak relationships
What the fuck? Can you guys hold down your horses and explain what this is all about? How are HxH characters unlikable and have weak relationships? Are you reading the same manga I am? Geez.
OP you made a mistake of trying to talk to HxH fans. Similar to Narutards, they will defend every single aspect of this garbage and will refuse to admit to a single flaw. At best they will admit "well maybe it's just not meant for you" but they will say it in a way that implies you have poor taste for not being able to "get it".
They not only do not accept criticism they actually distort obvious, objective flaws into strengths through impossible logical gymnastics.
Just give up and let this thread die. You can't talk to these people.
Gon, Killua and Kurapika all have their selfish moments and if someone is looking for bros having each others backs, HxH probably isn't right for them. Their relationships are weak in the sense that Gon and Killua's friendship is unhealthy, Kurapika ignores people all the time and wants to be a lone wolf, etc. This gives them room to develop though, it isn't always like that, and that doesn't make them unlikable for me.
The vast majority of the manga I still read are seinen. Not only did I graduate past "good guy always wins" I also graduated past the "muh moral ambiguity so deed" phase that is so popular among adolescents. Then I graduated past authoritarianism, then against anti-authoritarianism, and now I mostly just find shounen trite and uninteresting unless it's a comedy.
Goku is constantly portrayed as a hero. He is selfish for sure, but Toriyama failed at conveying it- whenever he lets someone dangerous live so he can fight them later, he just looks like a cool, powerful guy.
Have you even bothered to read the thread? It's full of actual, decent arguments based on the material and logical explanations. OP has also responded with his own rebuttals. It's only bad if you think people shouldn't be allowed to disagree. It's not some shit flinging trash thread about Pitou's gender or something.
I'm not here to argue which of Togashi's works is objectively superior or something. I was just drawing some parallels. I think characters are, by a huge margin, the most important aspect of a series. A book with a shitty narrative can be at least partially salvaged by a lovable cast, but a bad cast will spoil even the most masterfully scripted tale. YYH has some hilariously stupid storytelling. Shit, there are like 4 tournament arcs, it's bananas. But it's characters are divinely crafted, and it's their chemistry that pushes the plot along over it's cheesy, cliche bog of a story. It doesn't hide the ugly plot mechanics (I'm looking at you, demon Yusuke), but it helps the pill along.
Hunter is a series driven by emotional impact. It's approach to the shounen genre hinges on an investment in it's characters. As I said, I'm not clueless. I grasp that the series isn't like it's author's prior work, nor works similar to it. It's fueled not by heroes overcoming villains with hope and friendship and asspull magic, but by the sacrifices, consequences and moral implications of it's characters actions. But a story like that NEEDS a good cast to push it; if I'm not invested in the dreams or worries of the protagonists, how can I be invested when they make big decisions or lose their minds? And I'm not being abrasive out of emotional preference when I refer to the writing; some of it IS poor. It's very easy to look Kurapika gaining sudden inconceivable amounts of strength, or Killua suddenly having a magical maguffin family member and say "the show's not about that stuff, focus on this!", but those things are still there. They're still awful examples of writing, and they aren't justified by their implications.
What? Now it's been a while since i read DB and i don't remember it too well, but the first time he goes SSJ he gives some of his energy to Freeza so he can live and only kills him once he tries to backstab him. This serves to him being portayed as the cool humble guy who gives people a second chance, not a "selfish asshole".
>Alright, /a/. I don't get it. The 2011 adaptation of Hunter x Hunter is revered by many as extraordinary; a monument of it's medium, and a masterpiece...
Stopped reading there
...I don't know, I'm not seeing it. Even the spiders were deeply rooted camarades, we've seen enough of that with Uvogin and Paku's deaths (And Chrollo's dissappearance).
Killua and Gon have their ups and down, but they're still super ultra friends... I mean, even that octopus and Killua were bros just after meeting. And then we have Knuckle and Shoot, for example... I'll have you remember Knuckle almost killed himself trying to Shoot's... Honor.
Friends are a big thing in HxH. In that regard, it's not that different from other shounen.
It's fine that you feel that way, but it's still obviously just your feelings rather than any objective criticism of the series. You're excusing YYH for it's shitty writing because of how much you liked the characters, while saying HxH can't do the same things because you didn't like the characters that much.
Your arguments are based on the premise that the cast is bad- but it's not, Gon and Killua together are a particularly well loved pair that lends itself to serious emotional investment. Kurapika is extremely popular with fans of the series and Leorio is popular on /a/, at least. We can't force you to care about characters, but the fact is that many do.
To each their own, I guess. I think the series did a very good job of portraying Goku as someone who selfish intentions that manages to acquire a good outcome somehow. Like I said, when he decides to stay dead, Goku himself admits that he's more of a danger to Earth than anyone else. It's a surprisingly mature decision about something he's completely right about.
That's why I said he managed to control himself later on. The Super Saiyan sequence of the Freeza arc is a parallel to the Piccolo Daimao arc. Goku's best friend is killed, he then gets mad and goes on a mindless rampage. Super Saiyan was characterized in the beginning as someone who lost their mind, a warrior consumed by rage, which is why Goku threatened Gohan, why he kept saying he'd kill Freeza and why he let Freeza power-up to full. The thing is that if this was Daimao-arc Goku, he would have killed Freeza out of revenge. But this Goku develops and manages to control himself and give Freeza a second chance. It's not portraying him as the cool humble guy, it's developing him from the revenge-seeking maniac TO the cool humble guy. Which is exactly the opposite of what the series did with the character in the Piccolo Daimao arc (and to make this less off-topic, the opposite of what HxH did with Gon in the CA arc too).
>It's full of actual, decent arguments based on the material and logical explanations
In this thread I saw the typical HxH fan run-around: deflecting criticism by applying it to other series, claiming flaws are actually strengths that people are simply too dumb to appreciate, claiming it's lackluster writing is due to being a "deconstruction", claiming its use of cliches are actually satirical or metaphors for something else nowhere evident in the manga, etc.
>It's approach to the shounen genre hinges on an investment in it's characters.
>if I'm not invested in the dreams or worries of the protagonists, how can I be invested when they make big decisions or lose their minds?
At that point it's a matter of preference. I can just as easily claim the cast in YYH is bad because i didn't care about them.
>It's very easy to look Kurapika gaining sudden inconceivable amounts of strength
You mean the one that was used to kill exactly one guy before they figured out how it works? How is that an issue in the writing?
>or Killua suddenly having a magical maguffin family member
I think this is the first legitimate complain you've made. I completely agree with that one.
What you saw is people disagreeing with you, and you don't like it, so you're dismissing valid arguments as 'run around'.
If you think HxH is total shit nothing is going to convince you and no argument will be good enough, what the fuck do you expect?
>And this didn't even happen all that often with Gon
I think it happened exactly once, and even then it was more about Gon luring Genthru into their trap than getting angry and turning the battle around.
>At that point it's a matter of preference. I can just as easily claim the cast in YYH is bad because i didn't care about them.
This is an underrated argument. It's impossible to argue against "the cast is bad", because the only possible reply is "no, it isn't".
Its hard to really believe that you are arguing in good faith when are making up shit that never happened in this thread. sage
>What you saw is people disagreeing with you,
Of course they disagree, because they can't accept the object of their worship has flaws. It doesn't matter what I say about it, if it's negative they will not accept it. It's sacrilegious in the HxH Cult to imply any part of the story is not perfect.
you mean besides these posts
Etc. Just full of more goalpost-shifting, values-warping, buck-passing rigmarole that is the HxHfag argumentation.
this sounds more and more like bait, anon
>give your point of view
>someone else gives theirs
>hurr you're a blind cultist who can't accept flaws!
Are you retarded? Serious question.
The thread has been pretty civil so it leads me to think that you're getting upset because people aren't agreeing with you.
I'm not saying YYH's characters excuse it's poor writing. It's still borderline horrendous, but I enjoyed the experience through the cast that populated it. To be clear, that doesn't mean the narrative somehow gets a free pass. It's relentlessly run of the mill and rife with holes.
My issue is that HxH has those same holes, but the characters aren't strong enough to glaze over them. You even remarked yourself that it's cast was lacking. It's good that many people like the characters, but I certainly don't think they're well written. Gon perhaps, but it's impossible to take Killua's history seriously, and he only serves as the token 2kool4skool angsty guy of the group unless he's interacting with Gon, who he became best friends with immediately despite being raised never to have friendships. He grows as a character eventually, but it's not until pretty late into the series. Kurapika is pretty one-note as well, being the cool and collected guy unless he's angry, at which point he's the angry guy. He and Leorio get ditched anyway, so they're barely even worth talking about.
I'm not saying "I don't like these guys, this show is bad", I legitimately don't think they're examples of good characters, especially since their interaction with one another ranges from immediate loyalty and companionship to never seen again.
Also, I'm very glad to hear that the manga handled Kite and Gon's relationship with more time and care. That was a massive part of my disliking the entire second half of Chimera Ants.
If your show hinges on emotional provocation and moral insight, then yes, having good characters is important. The audience isn't going to be provoked if they don't care about who they're watching, although I guess I'm the vast minority when it comes to Hunter's crew of companions. Kurapika pulling giant wealths of power out of his anal cavity is not good writing, regardless of who he uses it on.
Appreciated. I'm not trying to stir up shit. I love anime and I love the shounen genre. I'm just trying to get my frustrations with this show across and hopefully find some common ground.
Hey, man, you're OP right? Well, I'll assume you are.
You say Alluka is an asspull? Very true, whoever says it isn't should be shot in the face. You say the MC's power-ups are asspull? ...Well, I mean, they aren't asspulls if you look at them in context, as you/OP said, but at the very least I agree they damaged the narrative. I don't think Kurapika's case is that terrible, because otherwise the York Shin arc wouldn't have happened at all... But sure, you can disagree on that one. Gon didn't have any reason to be so mad with Kite's dead? I personally strongly agree to that as well. None of this are so terrible that they overshadow everything else the manga has to offer.
And, seriously, other than that the complains fall into "character's are bad and have bad chemistry". And the answer to that is, well, shit, I don't know, I liked them.
There's a lot of analysis both in and out of fights, the characters actually look like they have a brain, and they use it. I very much enjoy seeing the inner rants they have then they need to figure out how to get out of a sticky situation, or when they're presented with a difficult decision. And the fights involve wits most of the time (Combined with raw strenght), which is cool. HxH also has a non linear way of moving the plot, instead of a clear formulaic progression, and I believe Togashi is very skilled in introducing interesting scenarios. I say "I believe", risking being biased, but I just can't fathom how anyone can say it's a narrative disaster. It can bore you, sure, because people have opinions, but there's an awful variety of sound plot twists, and paths the characters take, and constant conflict, that feel like thought has been put into it.
>You even remarked yourself that it's cast was lacking.
I don't think that at all. They just aren't as likable, which isn't a bad thing when you appreciate flawed characters. Killua drops the edgelord act almost instantly after the hunter exam, his development really starts with Greed Island (the most notable moment being allowing Gon to hurt his hands during the dodgeball game), then peaks with CA and the election arc. That's good timing for character development, it's not forcibly happening overnight. Kurapika and Leorio aren't as developed, but the series isn't over, and the new manga arc focuses on them.
That aside, the main 4 aren't the only characters in the series, the most stand out, memorable characters in the series tend to be villains.
dude you're stuck in a world of nostalgia, you're going to have to get over it
all shounens have asspulls, and at least HxH tries to keep them in line with the power levels abbr.
If you want any ass pull its this:
>top 5 nen users in the world (association's leader
>dodgeballer is really impressed by nen control from the spider members
>dark world saga power levels
There is literally no where for him to go, as long as we lived in a world of make believe where Gon and Killua were still little shits compared to the elite, which were shit compared to top 5, we could suspend disbelieve. But now... He's written his series into the ground.
By the way YYH, at least the anime, is incredibly bland and boring by comparison. It honestly plays out only slightly better than DBZ IMO, where as there is dynamism in every HxH fight, with contrasting powers leading to interesting fights.
>You even remarked yourself that it's cast was lacking.
I think what anon meant is that the character flaws in HxH are more obvious.
>it's impossible to take Killua's history seriously, and he only serves as the token 2kool4skool angsty guy of the group unless he's interacting with Gon
I think you should give it a rewatch or something. This also annoyed me to no ends but i was pleasantly surprised when those traits disappeared after like one arc.
>Kurapika is pretty one-note as well, being the cool and collected guy unless he's angry, at which point he's the angry guy.
I think you're undermining it. There's more to his character than that, i'm thinking of scenes such as when he realizes what Paku is doing isn't much different than him and it causes him to question his motivations altogether.
>He and Leorio get ditched anyway, so they're barely even worth talking about.
You should give the manga a read, then. The new arc is focusing on them, even if sadly there are only 10 chapters available and it's on hiatus right now.
>having good characters is important
I think the characters are really good, i'd even say it's the strong point of HxH. I'm curious as why you think they aren't, what you said above excluded.
>although I guess I'm the vast minority
That doesn't make your points less valid and anyone who resorts to ad populum is generally an idiot.
People responding to this are daft as fuck, and if you are upset that this is an asspull you're missing the bad writing entirely. The bad writing is 'magic power conveniently on Killua's backdoor only available to Killua' that he uses to fix Gon, within 20chapters ( estimate ) of Gon's ruin.
The sacrifice actually does ( somewhat ) follow the rules of the show
>leverage body, soul ( pain conception and period of existence ) for your perfect body
There are tons of rules using death ( as a breaker ) why not use death as real-time leverage?
>If you want any ass pull its this:
>>top 5 nen users in the world (association's leader
>>dodgeballer is really impressed by nen control from the spider members
>>dark world saga power levels
>There is literally no where for him to go, as long as we lived in a world of make believe where Gon and Killua were still little shits compared to the elite, which were shit compared to top 5, we could suspend disbelieve. But now... He's written his series into the ground.
>Relatability is the lynchpin to a good protagonist; the audience cares about their plight and wants them to succeed because they feel like they know them on a personal scale.
Hahahaha holy shit
The official databook says pitou is male, that's all there is to it. I'm guessing a lot of you aren't aware, but transgender people do exist, and pitou and kurapika are heavily coded as trans. Looks don't decide gender. Please respect his pronouns and gender because otherwise you're honestly just being rude.
Alluka doesn't need to know, if Alluka needed to know, she wouldn't be able to heal the bird the way it was shown, she isn't a vet, she doesn't "know" how to fix a broken wing
Magic, aint gotta 'splain shit
Gurren Lagann's a big one for me. 80's Dragonball, Hajime No Ippo. I'm really enjoying Kill La Kill! recently. I think my soft spot for the genre stems from 12 year old me refusing to grow out of all the cheesy action series I saw as a kid. I'm a sucker for fun, bop the bad guy battle series, even if they're cliche and done to death. I suppose that probably didn't help my trying to love Hunter at all, but I can usually watch things with an open mind. I think.
Because a new Dragon Quest is coming out and I'm wise to Papa Gashi's ways.
That's true, huh? As much as I harp on the characters, I actually really liked a lot of the villains. Phinx was fucking awesome. My favorite character in the whole show was probably
That asshat isn't me, but I appreciate the in-depth reply. I agree with pretty much everything you said. Hunter shines very brightly when it pulls off what it sets out to do. I actually adored Chimera Ants' first half. Maybe it's personal preference, but I just can't overlook it's issues, and it irks me when people say they aren't there at all. I'm so exhausted with being told I'm too dumb to understand Hunter, so I only hate it because I don't get it. I just can't handle all the stupidly huge powerups so often, and it left me starving for proper character interaction. Maybe it's not what Hunter is about, but the ends don't justify the means.
You know this is a meme, right?
Anyway, the manga doesn't have some of the issues that you complained about so you should at least read until the end of the Election arc.
what i mean is he never gave us a sane frame of reference from which to watch the development of the boys
we are now in a position where any nen powers are going to not make much sense ( by way of pure power ) as mereum was clearly - by comparison to the foudner of the hunter association - the most powerful nen user ever CONCEIVED of.
>I just can't handle all the stupidly huge powerups so often
There are like what, 2 of them in the entire series? And they don't actually solve anything for the characters, if anything they create more problems for them.
>and it left me starving for proper character interaction
But that's what the entire second half of the CA arc is about.
I genuinely don't understand your complaints.
Extraordinary, a monument of its medium.
>I just can't handle all the stupidly huge powerups so often, and it left me starving for proper character interaction
Huh? Didn't you say earlier that you enjoy battle shounen as a genre? HxH has a bare minimum of powerups and fights and focuses far more on the characters. The biggest powerup in the series revolves around character development more than anything else.
Your posts are strange, you articulate yourself well and seem capable of analyzing work critically but your actual arguments are just weirdly off base. If you hated battle shounen in general it would make sense, because the genre really just can't compete with well written series for adults, but it makes no sense if you usually enjoy all it's shitty conventions but dislike it when HxH handles them in a more clever way.
What i'm trying to say, albeit very poorly, is that without expanding the horizons of the narrative ( DBZ every saga ) you are forced to write hints, vagueries, and reference points into the narrative of the world in order to structure the world-building. Anime is usually simple minded, without expansive world-building, and is literally built on asspulls ( things without prior reference ).
What i loved about hxh is you had the vagueness of the hunter association ( broad range of skills and passions, while still insinuitating a good bottom-line for power levels ) and lots of intimations of other behind the scenes power groups - kind of like my favorite fantasies it built up disparate power groups that contextualize well when compared to the real world.
That being said these hints rest on a few strong pieces of data: direct quotes of comparisons, and reactions.
I think that the comment that Netero's comment on top 5 nen users ( including Gin ) set the bar in terms of top - known - powers. While there's no direct evidence he's among the top 5, he seems to reference a plateau ( his own above others ) when fighting Mereum, which would insinuate that in the past there was no one better than him.
Gon and Killua are now strong enough to have been selected for the ants eradication ( while good estimates for power levels were known ) or else others would have been mobilized - anything else is a ret-con ass pull, which is very weakly supported ( I'm sure that the greatest powers would be willing to test it against an unknown, and they can't possibly - all of them - be busy with other comparable challenges.
Basically, dark arc is the first major asspull, in a consumate series of plot ending contrivances. As soon as it was announced I lost essentially all interest in the series; that being said it is the first anime I have rewatched since i was 17.
I need to go back and get a screen cap of when Killua was first explaining his family business to Gon and he did that incredibly gay pose, I know it happened some time while they were on the air ship during the first exam, but I'm too lazy to find it.
>interesting character dynamics
This is the only reason I watch HxH because of the character interactions and the minimum interruptions to their development. As does every shounen, droning on will happen.
The minor villains are particularly lovely as they remind me of Strongest man's kurosawa's narrative explanations.
I wasn't using it to validate my argument. Just a passing comment. Even setting aside the characters themselves, I was extremely disappointed with the way they bonded and interacted. The four protagonists become best buddies pretty much instantly, with the exception of Leorio and Killua, and that was more for slapstick purposes than interpersonal tension. I didn't feel any authenticity from any of them, since they seemed like they would give a limb for one another after after exchanging names. The relationship between Gon and Killua, particularly, was lost on me. They became inseparable friends for eternity in like a day, even though Killua's background totally contradicted it. That was a real problem for me, considering the show so heavily leans on their dichotomy. Anyway, it's entirely possible I'd enjoy the characters more with a second experience. Who can say?
I'm aware of that. I'm just not interested in reading a manga that doesn't have any interest in, uh. Being written.
>kurapika gains sudden access to all 5 nen categories at his full capacity
>killua takes a plot device out of his forehead and gains an enormous boost in strength
>gon gets an enormous powerup to beat a primary antagonist in like a second
That's three off the top of my head, and while that doesn't sound like a lot, they're kind of a big deal.
>killua uses his ability in the manner he has always used it
Yeah, ok. Pure electricity passes faster than cell-mechanisms - fyi.
>kurapika's eyes were eliminated from the earth for what we can presume was a particular reason
Maybe that was the reason? Considering his affect on the spider's ( 1 solid succesful fight ) i'd hardly call this either particularly interesting as a plot development nor an ass pull ( out of left field and game breaking ).
Gon's is definitely an ass pull, but again he gave more than his life to accomplish it. I would have been fine with it if his recovery had any real cost associated with it ( it didnt; it was the real ass pull of the series along with AssasinXassasin in the New York arc ).
You nicked the nail with the hammer, there. I love cheesy battle shounen bullshit from the bottom of my heart, but it only works when it's in the context of a cheesy battle shounen bullshit series. Hunter x Hunter takes those concepts and applies them to a very genuine, emotionally driven context, and in my opinion it just didn't snap properly into place. The consensus seems to be, from my understanding, that these typical cliche shounen plot components are excused in Hunter because the viewer is encouraged to focus not on them, but on the moral duality they imply and the ramifications they have on the characters. But I'm not of the opinion that this is a justifiable excuse. Shows like Dragon Ball Z get away with stunts like that because the whole production is over the top and generally careless to begin with. They're still not GOOD plot mechanics, but they're not supposed to be taken seriously.
HxH puts a critical lens to the typical shounen cliches, but it takes away the safety net of the usual campy, beat'em up atmosphere the genre relies on. Maybe I'm just too attached to the genre to enjoy it, but when I look at these things in the context of a serious, emotional narrative, I can't look past them. I can't say "ahh, it's a shounen!" anymore. I know I'm looking at Hunter at all the wrong angles, but I don't think the cheesy shows I love are technically very good, and I don't think this one's any better for trying to deconstruct them. I hope I'm making sense.
mfw I have 52 GB blu ray rip of my favorite show on my hdd
>>kurapika gains sudden access to all 5 nen categories at his full capacity
I'm really not sure what the issue with this is. It's actually a good thing that it happened right after he (and the audience) learned about nen, because it obviously wasn't a last minute, desperate asspull to win a fight. It was planned all along and is just a unique trait of his clan, which is a pretty normal thing to happen in fantasy series. It was only used to defeat one unprepared person and capture another, he hasn't come close to beating the troupe with it no matter how strong he is.
>>killua takes a plot device out of his forehead and gains an enormous boost in strength
He didn't really get an enormous boost in strength, it's a mental thing. It's a 'plot device' that had been causing conflict, both in actual fights and in his emotional wellbeing, throughout the whole series from the very first arc.
>>gon gets an enormous powerup to beat a primary antagonist in like a second
The fight was unbalanced for a reason and the entire thing was the culmination of Gon's character arc. It was a big deal, but in a good way.
That makes a fair bit of sense. HxH takes itself more seriously than most battle shounen but there's still a limit on how seriously the audience can take it. Personally I think Togashi does a very good job of avoiding common pitfalls in the genre and subverting our expectations, there were many moments throughout the series where things just didn't go the way I would expect, and I loved being surprised like that. But that's kind of reliant on it fitting the genre in the first place, so it will still retain some flaws from it.
He was supposed to be a 12 year old kid raised by a family of killers who taught him strictly to never make friends, trust anyone and only think of the target. That argument doesn't work.
Killua becomes immediately able to defeat an opponent he couldn't defeat prior with no actual development of skill on his part. That is, by the books, a pull from one's rectum.
The specifics of Kurapika's past is conjecture, and it's absolutely important. He defeats the strongest Spider (physically) with absolutely no problem whatsoever. He gains an impossibly powerful ability and his reasoning is "when I get really mad, my eyes go red and I can use all 5 nen categories because lmao I dunno". In what realm is that not an asspull and an awful example of writing?
Call me retarded, but i still don't get it.
Obviously there are going to be people better at handling nen than others, this is valid for pretty much anything. "top 5 nen users" is a pretty vague statement as well.
The only thing i've understood is that you think Gon and Kil are stronger than average because they took place in the palace invasion, but it's not the case.
>a 12 year old kid raised by a family of killers who taught him strictly to never make friends, trust anyone and only think of the target. That argument doesn't work.
Yes it does because he left that family so he could stop being an assassin. He's still a 12yo kid who wants to make friends
Tell me how is IT like Dragon Ball. What do they have in common ? What did you dislike in HxH and why ? ...
>its not that case
There's literally no evidence as contraindication of what I've said, but feel free to share your baseless opinion - this is /a/ after all.
>emotional context ends up playing as a landmine for your contextualization of weakness as 'its a shounen'
this makes a lot of sense, yeah the mood and world building was just a little out of place for me too and i just ran with it.
>immediately able to defeat an opponent prior
Prior to what? Before he could use nen? Next.
>red eyes with no understanding of why
This is every single supernatural power - ever. You either suspend your disbelief or you don't, I'm sorry there's no thermodynamic basis for nen.
>asspull of racial trait
Again, his clan was eradicated ( there's amble evidence this was a very strategic move ) probably because of their potential. Its a classic story of fear based in primeval humanity (re: crusades, Templars, Assasins/Immortals, Disdain for Plebs, etc).
Here's my question: could he even come close to rivaling someone who is a master of a nen category (re: first spider fight )? No, he was entirely outclassed even with the Spider telling him he was holding back - with an honest cocky personality - and he survived 1 blow using 100% of his power.
If he faced the SPIDERS he would have been killed easily - that's a fact and is at the crux of the character development ( contrast between the hope of having friends who don't want you to die and your own desire for self-destruction ).
I feel as though you're looking back at the series in anger after having lived through the chimera ant arc ( which most people cried about ).
>He was supposed to be a 12 year old kid raised by a family of killers who taught him strictly to never make friends, trust anyone and only think of the target.
Did you miss the part where he ran away from home because he didn't like the idea of not getting to make friends?
>Killua becomes immediately able to defeat an opponent he couldn't defeat prior
Which wasn't a matter of strength. Bisky explained how Killua fought pretty directly, and we saw it in his fight with Shoot.
>He defeats the strongest Spider (physically) with absolutely no problem whatsoever.
>He gains an impossibly powerful ability and his reasoning is "when I get really mad, my eyes go red and I can use all 5 nen categories because lmao I dunno".
That wasn't the reason he defeated Uvo. He defeated Uvo because of his chain jail, which was introduced long before that fight, and because of a clever strategy where he mislead Uvo into thinking the chains weren't conjured. Emperor time did nothing to help Kurapika in that fight as far as i remember.
>There's literally no evidence as contraindication of what I've said, but feel free to share your baseless opinion - this is /a/ after all.
Alright, i'll bite. Being taken as part of the invasion team meant nothing as far as powerlevels go. It was a suicide mission because the bomb could have exploded at any time - i'm thinking of that moment where Meruem could easily have killed Netero and Zeno at any time in particular.
Also, the hunter association doesn't "hire" hunters for specific missions. They are freelance and those who aren't work under Pariston and are considered to be incompetent, this is explained by Morel and Knov in the middle of the CA arc.
Blogger so mad he can't even respond to the right post, better check myself before he gets PTSD
i was almost hurt
>ignoring the clear call to arms sent from netero to his most trusted collegues
Ahh, ok. It wasn't a suicide mission until the endgame ( which you are correct to say started as soon as the Dr nen was released ). >"Freelance"
i've already addressed this argument with the call-to-arms and the personality necessary for becoming a hunter
Either the world building has been weak lately ( he really has been writing himself into a corner for power levels ), or I guess its all just hidden in the clouds somewhere, which is just as weak in my opinion.
>what the fuck are you talking about.tiff
Fuck off paranoid schizophrenic
Yeah this was subsumed to have happened in parts of Morel's dialogue... at least that's what I remember. I don't really feel like trogging through manga chapters.
>mereum outclassed fighters in the top 20
>is likely a weak-medium dark continent class
>gon and killua are now above the capabilities of most hunters ( re: Greed island's pool would be middle-high tier )
I don't really feel like supposing anymore with someone who comes back at me with 1-2 word answers.
So i'll be leaving unless there's something reasonable posted.
Even if I did buy into the excuse that Killua was somehow awesome and special enough to avoid buying into the strict teachings that his family drilled into the heads of their children for generations, "he's 12" is STILL a really half-baked reason for me to accept instantaneous, lazy character development like that.
What the fuck are these points, even? You're presenting them with a pretty pompous attitude, but they're not even counterpoints. Killua got his ass handed to him by Rammot, pulled a magic metaphor out of his head and proceeded to annihilate him. This was multiple arcs after he learned to use nen. I don't even know what you're talking about.
How the steam-fried fuck is "suspend your disbelief or don't, sorry" an argument? How am I supposed to respond to that? What to do you actually expect me to say to a retort that equates to you saying "deal with it"? And I don't accept "probably" in place of actual justification for enormous plot mechanics, thank you. Either cite me a chapter in which Kurapika details why it is he can suddenly stand toe to toe with Uvogin or don't bother. Even if his abilities do come from some Kurta trait, that's pretty fucking convenient, isn't it?
Have I fallen into a crack in the fabric of spacetime where arguments don't have to make fucking sense? Has my constant, feverish masturbating to naked anime girls finally caught up with me? Am I in weeb hell, destined to listen to whatever you're going on about for the rest of time? Help me through this man, I'm really trying here.
>Yeah this was subsumed to have happened in parts of Morel's dialogue
I can assure you it hasn't. There isn't a single mention of a call to arms.
>gon and killua are now above the capabilities of most hunters
This isn't the case either. Gon and Killua are weaker than Knuckle and shoot, who are just students of another hunter. They're below average and lack experience, this has been stated by Knuckle himself. The fact that they took part in the invasion means nothing about how strong they are, in fact Netero thought everyone had died.
>"he's 12" is STILL a really half-baked reason for me to accept instantaneous, lazy character development like that.
Being 12 is a half baked reason for a kid to act like he's 12? What? Do you realize what you are saying?
Both him and Gon are the only kids their age in the exam, and they both never had any real interaction with other kids the same age because assassin training or living on a small ass island.
Why wouldn't they become instant bff?
>instantaneous, lazy character development like that
What the fuck? That's literally how he was introduced, that's what his character is from the get go, not character development.
Did you actually read this?
I started watching 1999 for the first time since EncoderAnon finished his work on it, and holy shit why did no one tell me it was this good? So far it's a lot better than 2011.
>Even if his abilities do come from some Kurta trait, that's pretty fucking convenient, isn't it?
Kurapika is shown to be stronger when his eyes turn scarlet, particularly when he's angry. You even see that showcased in the hunter exam. That's not a fucking asspull.
It was explained before. When a Kurta loses their senses, amazing strength comes out; and that's why even Uvo could acknowledge that the Kurta were powerful.
>Either cite me a chapter in which Kurapika details why it is he can suddenly stand toe to toe with Uvogin or don't bother.
Chapters 83 and 108.
Aside from the whole being raised to be an emotionless killer thing that he apparently said "nah" to? Hell, aside from that, not much, but if you can buy that shit, the world is your oyster.
I didn't even think about it, but you're right. It's not even bad character development. It's making a character and giving him a completely fucking nutty Deviantart past that doesn't match his personality whatsoever. It's like some kind of reverse development shit. Pretty meta.
>stand toe to toe
This is your example of an point.
>matching enhancer abilities for 1 blow
>winning the match by incapacitating your opponent with an ability that nullifies the opponent's ability to use nen
Yeap, that's called clever use of mechanics retard-san.
>Rammot develops his nen immediately and then tries to use it against a more developed fighter who has been training his entire life, and has more experience with nen as well as a speed advantage against MUCH MUCH HIGHER CLASS OPPONENTS: Kings guard
Yep, ok that's an argument essentially over and done with.
Being inhibited by fear may make you less able to act on your intuitions, which are pretty much the basis of delicate motor control. It would of course improve his coordination.
I'll now have to check to try and clear my head.
>gon and killua
Hmm, there's definitely some context for that fair enough. Their development speed is clearly hax, but that's par for the course. I guess my anger at the dark continent bullshit kind of retroactively hit gon and killua, especially with Gon-san.
>that he apparently said "nah" to?
You have to accept that he said "nah" to it from the moment he left his family to go pass the hunter exam.
If he can do that, then he can be friends with Gon too.
Worse than Yorkshin. Pitou is the only good thing to come from it.
So let me get this straight, you're upset because he isn't Sasuke but instead is friendly and nice despite being raised in a family of assassins?
I wish the author didn't ass pull gon twice. Otherwise, i would proudly say this is one of the best shonen because it feels "realistic" It have strict rules that the overarching plot attaches to it. You just don't train 1 month to start beating the crap out of the bad guy.
So yeah, aside from Gon super sayan transformation and miraculous recovery, this is the best so far for me.
>Their development speed is clearly hax, but that's par for the course.
That's true. At least Togashi was reasonable enough to make them among the weakest characters of the series, because they're still like 12.
>I guess my anger at the dark continent bullshit
I'm curious to know what makes you angry about the DC. You know it's not about powerlevels, right? The calamities are dangerous, not strong. One of them is just straight up a plague and another one is just a parasite.
Yeah, I got that he gets stronger when he's mad. That's cool and all, but there's a pretty big space between "stronger" and "I have incapacitated one of the strongest characters in the series currently". That doesn't irk you at all? Not even a little? A character is suddenly able to defeat whoever he wants, but it's fine because Togashi made a vague passing comment about it? I mean, if you want to accept that, then fuck, you do you, but that ain't me.
I don't even fucking know what to say anymore. You're not even following my points, let alone arguing them. It sounds like you're making this up as you go, and honestly, I just don't have the energy to compete with you. Look, my man, I'm going to give you this one. You won the argument, okay? Just please, stop depressing the buttons on your keyboard. It's hurting everyone around you. Think of your mom. She wouldn't want this.
I don't understand. If the chimera ants were supposed to be so dangerous and powerful why didn't they send real top level hunters to deal with the problem?
They sent a bunch of rookies and a guy who was way past his prime. It's very possible that they should have been annihilated and their powers and nene absorbed to create even more powerful ants.
Look, I don't want two Sasukurapikas running around, but if you're going to write up an awful backstory, at least have the decency to commit the character to it. "He didn't wanna be an assassin :^)" doesn't fuckin' fly.
Lets make Gon fight Pitou because he killed his friend...
Oh shit, Pitou is too strong, I tottaly forgot about that! Oh i know, ill just put a little of asspull here a little there aaand Boom!! biggest asspull in the manga history ever, the usless GON reached the power of the most powerfull being in the history, even more that the old fag that trained his ass for like his entire life.
>The 2011 adaptation of Hunter x Hunter is revered by many as extraordinary; a monument of it's medium, and a masterpiece of it's genre.
there, that's your thread. you misunderstood people saying "I like this, check it out!" and thought they were calling it the best thing ever.
>"I have incapacitated one of the strongest characters in the series currently"
Nothing to do with how strong he is, that's the way he designed his ability. Anyone could fucking do it if they were as bent on getting back at the Troupe as Kurapika.
>A character is suddenly able to defeat whoever he wants
Are you still talking about Kurapika? Did you miss the part where he absolutely fucking failed at what he was trying to do in the Yorkshin arc?
Because that isn't how raising your children under an impossibly strict and long-honored upbringing works. They've been breeding cold-blooded assassins for many generations now, so one would assume they'd be good enough at it by now that one of their sprouts wouldn't say "eh, I dunno man, not for me" and walk off.
>it's bad because he has a personality
>problem children don't exist
Come on. I know you're trying not to sound like a complete retard but you could at least try to make some sense.
>so one would assume they'd be good enough at it by now that one of their sprouts wouldn't say "eh, I dunno man, not for me" and walk off.
Seems like that assumption is wrong.
Illumi seems decent at it, MIlluki is a fat NEET otaku who almost never leaves his room, Killua ran away, Alluka got locked up and thinks he's a girl, Kalluto seems decent but is also crossdressing for no reason.
That's like 2 out of 5 and I'm being nice.
>there are people who unironically believe that 2011 is good
>>134101310, is what I meant to imply about kurapika, >>134101150
Regarding your lack of effort to engage in any of the other points, I don't really see what your point of reference is - you don't like combat shounens?
They are by and far not the weakest characters in the series although its getting very confusing as to where they are in the structure of the primary world ( not DC ) as they are clearly better than a good portion of the world's best ( Greed island arc comparisons ) but when compared to handpicked nen users (Knuckle and shoot) they are apparently weaker for canon. Basically I guess I shouldn't care because the fights are often not based on pure power.
DC pisses me off because despite all the world building and background ( where Gin has explored all and discovered most of the secret points ) we won't be able to explore most of that but instead we are going to be thrown into
the unknown arc so he can further develop the super high end power levels - which the series was never about up until this point.
Greed Island was full of shitters, what are you talking about? This is directly explained. There were like a handful of people actually playing the game.
Gon also wasn't stronger than Genthru, he got his ass absolutely handed to him and only won because of Bisky's plan.
>where Gin has explored all and discovered most of the secret points
Ging has never been to the DC.
>so he can further develop the super high end power levels
How the fuck does this arc scream powerlevels to you? It's about politics.
OP, if you're still here or check the thread later, please learn the difference between its and it's. I'm not particularly excellent at English and I'm not trying to invalidate your arguments. The issue is that you make this mistake so many times that it takes away from your arguments, because even on a subconscious level people will judge you based on your grammar.
It's not about having a personality, you dink. How many Amish kids do you think hit age 12 and say "wow this sucks, I wish dad would let me have an iPhone"? That's not how strict family upbringings work, especially considering he barely left his family's company unless he was out killing someone. It sounds to me like, as with many of Hunter's random holes and flaws, you're trying to legitimize arguments like "probably ___" and "well I guess ___" to fill in the gaps. I'm not trying to tell you the show is shit, so I don't know why you're so desperately defending the validity of a pre-teen disobeying the only lifestyle he's ever known.
Illumi and Milluki both follow their families traditions, unlike Killua. I don't know what point you're making, but they only support my case. Alluka's been locked up alone his whole life, so I don't think he really counts.
You'll have to forgive me, I've been sitting here for over four hours, and it seems to me like all the posters with articulate, intelligent and respectful arguments have vacated the thread. Give me a few more posts, maybe I'll deflate down to your name-slinging, shitposting level.
>0 ass pulls
I recall Sanji and Zoro having some asspulled abilities.
Also the whole "i trained for a weekend and now i have a convenient ability to defeat the big bad guy" shtick is pretty terrible.
I wouldn't go as far as to call most people in OP actual characters either.
this is the worst thread on /a/ right now
Fuck man, that's my biggest problem, I swear. It's such an elementary mistake, I hate that I make it. I tell myself I'm gonna work on it, but I never do. Maybe someone calling me out on it will help. Thanks for looking out.
>impossibly strict and long-honored upbringing works.
That's not really what it's like though. Most family members aren't completely indoctrinated and have some individuality. Despite all the abuse, he was a relatively normal, happy kid as we see in flashbacks, he has butlers who love him and even technically had a friend in Canary before he met Gon, and the family isn't even strict enough on Killua to force him to stay during the rescue arc. There's obviously some level of freedom, despite the strict training.
>full of shitters
Ahh I think we just have to differ in opinion for the end of time then. This kind of disconnect really stems the wonky disjointed world building that Togarashi has done. The selection for Greed Island is high end nen users from a pool of high end talent ( hunters ). Where else could I get any reasonable world-based comparison from?
What you're saying is, "They are shit because we saw they were shit," and what I'm arguin is that they HAVE to be at least middle upper class nen users in order to get in - that's the basis of Greed Island's existence.
I'm referencing things outside of DC, otherwise known as the 'known world' in HxH. I'm trying to point out there were lots of places he could have taken the series without DC and that DC is going to further backburner GxK. Maybe that's a good thiing, but my knee jerk reaction was mad.
Sure, but also powerlevels ( son etc ). I mean there may be betrayals and yadda yadda, maybe it'll be good. Still don't care for it.
Basically I'm just mad that despite the huge world building, and context Togarashi has given to the world of Hunters we are going outside of that so that some tiny plot can play out that will likely be meaninglesss ( oh we got an artifact yeaaah! ).
he's not as strong as meruem though
As far as i'm understanding, and correct me if i'm wrong, your point is "he shouldn't be friendly because that's not how he was raised". The entire point of his character is that he's not okay with that, and his interactions with Canary are what made him realize he actually did want to make friends.
Now i don't know much about psychology in children but rebellious phases aren't exactly rare. Have you really never heard of similar things about conservative households or something?
I'm not desesperate to defend it either, i'm just disagreeing with you. If that makes you angry you should probably take a break.
>Illumi and Milluki both follow their families traditions
Illumi yes, Milluki no. He stays in his room all the time, probably watching anime and getting figurines delivered to his doorstep. He rarely does assassin work, you have proof of that when he asks his Dad for money (to be able to participate in the auction) in exchange for killing a few people, that clearly indicates he doesn't kill regularly at all.
Just like Killua went his own way, going out and making friends instead of being an assassin, Milluki went his own way into his room being a NEET.
>2011 being faithful to manga
>i-it does n-not feel r-right guys, you are autistic yall
>1999 version with additional lines of plot fillers
>True Version, the only version that matters. Welcome to the club where people has been cured from autism.
Ah, that's true, huh? I forgot about the Canary stuff. I suppose that does lend some credence to the idea of him having enough individuality to run off on his own. I still don't really buy it 100%, but that is a detail I overlooked.
Did you see that? That was an insightful response to my proposal. It was backed by evidence, and he presented his thoughts concisely and articulately. Wasn't that nice? Wasn't that better than literally everything you've posted in the last hour or so?
>The selection for Greed Island is high end nen users from a pool of high end talent ( hunters )
That was just from the guy who hired Gon and Killua. Anyone could get into Greed Island if they had some money to spare.
>Sure, but also powerlevels ( son etc ).
What? I really am trying to understand what you're talking about here.
>why don't you like my fillerfest, shit and outdated adaptation?!
99fags are literally autistic
>money to spare
Ok i'm literally done, basically you're agreeing that the world building isn't consistent.
All the characters are no longer of any importance to the plot because those recruited for DC will be much more powerful.
Every other attempt to send hunters had been fucked with by Pariston who sent temp hunters instead. This is explained in the middle of the arc by Morel.
Also they weren't actually a big deal. The biggest problem was fixing the situation while keeping things as secret as possible.
>Ok i'm literally done, basically you're agreeing that the world building isn't consistent.
What the fuck? That's literally what is said in the series. The obtainment rank is like F or something because all you need to get it is money. That's it. You don't need to be strong.
>All the characters are no longer of any importance to the plot because those recruited for DC will be much more powerful.
Did you actually read it? Even fucking Leorio is in it. It has nothing to do with powerlevels.
>faithful to the manga
This is my favorite meme.
Yes! That's a thing I said earlier! It was in context to the way in which characters in Hunter x Hunter, as well as most battle shounen series, receive big boosts in strength that allow them to defeat their opponents. I implied that the one-sided nature of Hunter's fights became somewhat repetitive and predictable. How does that make you feel? I want to get to know you better.
>keeping it secret
So you're assuming that Netero believed in no high level guys - sure - bad world building.
>f rank obtainment
I forgot they put 'f' on it, again what the fuck is an 'a' since they must use it in the 'normal-world' or else why have a scale that goes up to 'a'?
Are Kurta's eyes higher than Greed island cartridges? If so definitely world building fail.
There is no DC ark yet... its the build up to it. But ok, sure.
> receive big boosts in strength that allow them to defeat their opponents
>the one-sided nature of Hunter's fights became somewhat repetitive and predictable
I can think of maybe two times of this happening, how is it predictable?
>but there's a pretty big space between "stronger" and "I have incapacitated one of the strongest characters in the series currently".
He incapacitated Uvogin through his wits and his chain jail ability. Uvogin was incredibly cocky, deciding to fight alone thinking he could destroy anyone in his path was his biggest mistake, he was outsmarted.
Kurapika's chain jail ability is exceptionally strong because he made a nen contract and swore never to use that ability on anyone besides those 13 members, he literally puts his life on the line for it everyday. One mistake with chain jail and he's dead. Also he can't use it unless his eyes are scarlet.
I don't understand why you people underestimate death as a cost for power, that's literally the most costly risk a human can possibly stake.
>A character is suddenly able to defeat whoever he wants
That's not true though. He needed to thoroughly plan out everything in Yorkshin even WITH his abilities; if he were to take on 3 spiders at once he would die.
And now that they've all discovered most of his abilities, he's fucked.
Also, I want to get this out of the way because the 2011 anime doesn't a shitty job at explaining emperor time. Kurapika is not a "master" of every category in emperor time mode. If he could use every nen category at 100% full power with emperor time that would be the biggest asspull ever created, but that's not the case. The only real category he can wholly master is his own (conjuration). Simple enough? Every nen user is like that, no exceptions. They can only achieve 100% mastery their own category.
Maximum levels Kurapika can master in other nen categories are:
Kurapika still has to train and practice all of these nen types to acquire those full percentages by the way. Even after fully learning them, the further they are from his own type, the less strength he acquires.
Now, if Kurapika tried to use the same emissive ability at 40% as a natural born level 4 emitter, the emitter's abilities would naturally have more effectiveness. But when Kurapika's eyes turn scarlet, he can use his emissive abilities at 100% effectiveness equal to a level 4 emitter.
I firmly believe that this acquired strength of accuracy/effectiveness with nen comes with his powerful genetics. But if you still think that's an asspull, please explain why.
>So you're assuming that Netero believed in no high level guys - sure - bad world building.
No? How is that what i implied at all? I'm saying there wasn't a need to dispatch them altogether. In NGL, all he needed was Morel and Knov, and then maybe a couple more people for the attack on the anthill. The biggest threat was just Pitou at the time, which Netero could easily have taken care of.
In East Gorteau it pretty much remained the same. There wasn't a need for anyone strong since all he needed was to separate the RG from the King, which he did thanks to Zeno.
You're not thinking at all but if you just want to scream "bad worldbuilding" then you can go ahead.
>I forgot they put 'f' on it, again what the fuck is an 'a' since they must use it in the 'normal-world' or else why have a scale that goes up to 'a'?
What the fuck is this sentence trying to say? I tried rereading it like 5 times and it makes less sense everytime. Please try explaining what you mean again.
>There is no DC ark yet... its the build up to it.
No, we're already in the DC arc.
Of course they weren't a big deal. All they needed to do was to nuke them. Did you forget when Meruem said "you had me in checkmate from the start"? The ants never had a chance.
I can't even remember a fight in HxH that wasn't one-sided, outside the arena I guess.
Gon and Hanzu
Gon and Hisoka
Kurapika and Uvogin
Rammot and Killua
Rammot and Killua again
Gon and Pitou
Neterou and Meruem
Fights in Hunter typically feature one character outclassing the shit out of the other. Not an inherently bad thing, but I thought it put a wet towel on a lot of the tension.
I appreciate the elaboration. Knowing the adaptation fumbled the execution of Kurapika's powera little goes a long way. Your explanation is a lot easier to swallow. The funny thing about Togashi's nen system is that he's found this weird loophole in the asspull system. Characters can obtain enormous increases in power pretty much whenever they decide to (with consequence and yadda yadda of course), which sounds an awful lot like an asspull. But that's literally the established mechanic of the show. It never comes out of nowhere, but it's a system that allows characters to make powers for themselves out of nowhere. It's like asspulls are so woven into the mechanics, it's impossible to tell what's even an asspull anymore. Togashi is a slippery shit.
Fuck that Alluka shit though.
we could've had a soemwhat decent HxH thread, but you just had to fuck things up with that incredibly shitty post of yours
I know you don't like HxH but that right there is an oxymoron.
Also they always inherently come with a price so it's not a bad thing. It creates more conflict if Togashi tries to solve a situation with it.
You're right, 99 is better than the manga.
>there was no need to dispatch them
The plan was to suicide from the get go ? I must have misinterpreted from the get out.
>ranking, where f requires the use of nen
I'm trying to say a scale where the higher end is never used would be silly and pointless; where are the 'a' ranked items?
Might as well ask here since everyone is being all wordy. What does the spider's saying mean?
All hunters are required to know nen by default. The rankings only apply for hunters. So yes, considering it's not that rare at all and you can literally just buy it, it's considered easy to get.
>where are the 'a' ranked items?
I don't think any of those were mentionned.
Did Kurapika even get injured in his fight with Uvo? It's been a while. Netero and Meruem was pretty one sided though, man. Netero had to sacrifice his own life because he knew Meruem was way out of his league and it was his only option.
I mean, they do, like three times. Killua gives himself the chain jail which lets him bind an absurdly strong opponent. Gon transforms and pummels the shit out of Pitou. There are consequences to doing these things, but the characters do, in fact, gain very large increases in power without having to train for them.
I know it's an oxymoron. That's what makes it so fucking weird. By all means, Gon suddenly powering up and beating Pitou would be an asspull in any other context, but it falls into the weird nen loophole that dictates that it's totally a thing that makes sense for him to do.
Debatable, Uvo gave him a good fight, but since he thought Kurapica was a Manipulator, he had no chance against him since the beginning.
Yeah, he did. But he healed soon after.
they were rejects protecting themselves from the world ( who takes advantage of them ) so they don't want to have anything else taken from them.
Yeah because it was ended within the first nen move - Uv couldn't use nen anymore, how fucking complicated is that. If you have to argue say - Uv could have dodged the invisible chain by his battle hardened detection.
Yes, i suppose you're correct regarding the BOTTOM LEVEL rank being an astronomical sum of money that very few people in the world could achieve... Another reason the hunter system is stupid, sure most hunter may be able to obtain it in a lifetime but incorporating timeframe is also important for good development
This is why I'd rather there wasn't a DC ark.
>There are consequences to doing these things
What the fuck? The entire point is that there are huge consequences.
That was literally the only damage that Pika took during the fight, and he completely healed it in seconds soon afterwards. Pika dominated Uvo for almost the whole fight, there was never a time when Uvo was in control. Pika had him wrapped in his chains from the first time he touched him.
No, even when he went full power he still wasn't in control. Uvo used his smokescreen to deliver a full power Big Bang Impact to Kurapika, but it did nothing more than break his arm, and Kurapika already had him wrapped in chains at that point. He could have ended the fight at any time by activating Chain Jail. Pika beat Uvogin in every possible way. Uvo's strongest attack did almost nothing to him.
Well, not necessarily. I don't know whether they're "justified" or not. Like I said, they all fall into Togashi's patent pending Plotpull device, where characters can totally power up at any time, but it's also totally written into the show's mechanics. I want to say they're asspulls. They look like asspulls. But that nippity weasel wrote them in a way that suggests they aren't.
Even though they totally are.
Or are they?
Why do you think it is?
>unironically posting 2011fag pika
1999 was only somewhat better you anime mongoloids. Everyone knows manga kurapika will always be the superior pika.
What gives you that implication? I've been here listening to people's cases and replying with my thoughts this whole time. There've been some pretty useless replies, as needlessly abrasive as they were void of reason, but the internet came through and lent me some really stimulating discussion. I'm thankful for all of the passionate Hunter fans that I've traded views with tonight. It's a series I really wanted to love, and I only meant to understand it's acclaim. Berating it or it's fanbase was never my intent. I think my fondness for Hunter as a series remain largely unmoved, but I'm looking at many things in a way I hadn't considered, and for that this experience was invaluable.
>But that nippity weasel wrote them in a way that suggests they aren't.
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Vows and limitations are a clever system since it gives Togashi freedom to write in nearly any ability (including powerups- a staple of the genre and ideal for generating hype and impact) that will obey the laws in universe AND come with inherent conflict to balance it out. At the same time it's not misused, Gon-san was used to maximum effect and is extremely important for Gon's characterization. Even if you think such flexible power mechanics are cheating, it still retains the value it has for the narrative, themes and character development. Unlike, say, powerups that exist because a series was dragged out too long and the mangaka ran out of ideas after inflating the powerlevels.
If his design weren't all over the place due to 1999 switching animation teams all the time he would be much better. Even so, that wasn't as bad compared to what Madhouse did to him.
As far as his characterization is concerned in 1999 Yorkshin, he's fantastic, and 2011 doesn't compare.
But ultimately manga Pika is indubitably the best version.
Hmm. I want to say it's a good system, since it is very clever, and does allow for a lot of creative flexibility. It has a lot of benefits, and it makes sense contextually. My problem with it is that, while there are consequences to using these powers, it essentially means a free win whenever they pop up. Kurapika dominates Uvo, and Gon decimates Pitou; it isn't even close. I know the show isn't about the battles and who wins, but it really killed the momentum for me whenever these things popped up. I felt like anticlimax was a recurring theme in the series, and it really had me bummed out by the end of it.
Also, for all that the show emphasizes the weight of using these powers tied to vows, we don't really see an example of the ramifications coming full circle. Gon is brought back in good health rather obnoxiously, though I guess you could argue Kurapica's sacrifice was being written out of the plot for like 5 arcs.
Manga Kurapika > 1999 > shit >>>>>> 2011
I'm glad we can all agree on this.
You don't actually believe 2011 is the best
I think most people have an issue with Gon being healed so fast, though logically just losing his nen is a pretty big consequence in itself. Kurapika's limitations are more impractical than some big sacrifice, and that's generally true for most nen contracts. On a smaller scale limitations are always an issue since they're included in every ability, like all the bullshit Chrollo has to go through to steal powers.
Kurapika vs Uvo and Gon vs Pitou were both really climactic though, I'm not sure why you would consider them anticlimaxes. The former was hype as fuck and the latter was really impactful, they aren't really a test of nen skill but they were exciting moments.
hmm lets think
>follows the manga
>and have modern arty style
>filler plot mash up for nostalgia autismos that everything is older than themselves is better
I think I'm good, Thanks.
>this whole fucking thread
Maybe it's the traditional, cheesy battle shounen fan in me, but I was really disappointed every time they hyped up a villain to be extraordinarily powerful, only to have them mopped up and tossed aside in a quarter of an episode. They're climactic in the sense that big events are occurring, I suppose, but it sucks all the tension out of the plot for me. Pitou was particularly disheartening.
>whoa, they're saying this girl is crazy strong
>she scared that guy's hair white!
>oh fuck, look at all that nen!
>just absolutely decimated in 20 seconds without ever showing off her strength
Not really, he just looks like literal shit most of the time in 2011. The only times he looked good was when madhouse copy pasted panels.
I don't know anon, to me it had the opposite effect. To know that Gon had to sacrifice all of his talent, something that was hyped up from really early in the series, to kill her actually made me pretty impressed all things considered.
She also wiped the floor with Kite who was hyped as a top tier hunter, who found and trained under Ging and who killed everyone with no effort until that point.
I think if the fight with Gon was more "balanced" the impact wouldn't have been as strong. I don't know how you think it sucked out the tension though, but then again from what you've said earlier in the thread you weren't very invested in it begin with.
You can keep pretending your opinion is objectively right you autistic secondary.
>WAH MUH MODERN ART-Y
2011 babbies are such a joke.
Togashi's character art is much better than whatever madhouse mustered up, especially in Yorkshin. That is fact.
Pouf was like a fabulous Yagami Light butterfly. He was an absolute delight every time he was on screen.
Not including his death, obviously, since for some reason Togashi thought it fitting to kill off all the antagonists off-handedly with literally poison. What the fuck.
Yeah, it all goes full circle to me just not buying into any of the characters. Maybe I set my expectations to high from Yu Yu Hakusho's brilliant cast, but I just couldn't bring myself to like anyone in HxH. So many rapidly formed relationships I was urged to invest in, so little character growth, and characters getting totally written out. I thought it was all so clunky, especially in comparison, and I didn't care for any of the heroes on the whole.
Funnily enough i thought the exact opposite about YYH and HxH. I remember being particularily disappointed when Yusuke threw away the small amount of development he got at the end of the dark tournament. I thought it was really poorly done compared to HxH.
lets talk about hunter x hunter about not about all this "rules", they belong on >>>/faq/
could hisoka beat illumi? do needles beat bungie gum? would hisoka get hit or hit him back? does illumi have a failsafe like shalnark?
heh, i just found it,
like how? i see his expression but i cant really come up with anything with that page, i cant think of what to say
and too many shitty post in this thread,
"ignore them, read the ones worth reading"-anon
how well do you think they would have adapted chimera ant arc? would it have been any better than 2011? the voice actors would have been better, hisoka a shit in 1999
>drawing tits on a man
What the fuck were they thinking?
Can you fuck off already?
>drawing tits on a man
>What the fuck were they thinking?
2011 did it too, are you gonna complain about that as well?
Is this some elaborate troll because I do not understand. What kind of person just makes a thread and puts a negative spin on everything
>Kurapika got access to all five nen categories
>This is bad and retarded
>Gon smashed Pitou
>This is bad and retarded
>"Just From Looking At It..."
>"My Mind Has Been Wreck...!!"
Around that panel someone can put little "hiatus" "hiatus" "hiatus" floating all over Knov or something. Maybe something Dragon Quest related in the small corner. The "Starting next issue this manga will be on a hiatus from print for a while." could also be used too.
>"You Have Also Seen the hiatus..."
im on it anon
>follows the manga
Chapter one, Mito, Gon, Killua, Kite, and Leorio. 2011 goes off the railings in its own way. That is it completely misses the point of a scene, and it alters characterization either by altering a character's reaction or just not adapting it at all.
No it's not the anime may have ended but the manga is ongoing therefore 2011 is not a complete adaptation.
>and have modern arty style
new doesn't automatically equate to better.
That was actually some nice character development for Goku
He didn't spare King Piccolo when he was a kid
In this scene when he's an adult it shows that his character had softened
>It's a surprisingly mature decision about something he's completely right about.
Except he leaves his family and his wife alone...fuck that shit
And Gohan was stronger by that point anyways so they would have gone after him or even Vegeta so it literally makes no sense and makes Goku seem like even more of a douche
>He's not like this so you must want him to be like Sasuke
Are you fucking kidding me?
Dragon Ball had Tenshinhan who was similar and made a transition into being a good guy
Shaman King had Tao Ren who was also did the same thing
The only reason for a lack of a character arc is cuz Togashi is a hipster
this desu senpai
The only reason this series was good was that it tried to subvert your expectations every single chance that it got. Which also ruined it for me because it was so obviously trying to trick me into thinking something else was going to happen that I caught onto its game.
There are so many examples of this but the ones that I can think of most easily is when it pretends like Leorio is going to become the chairman with this insane amount of buildup and foreshadowing and then it never happens.
This is why everyone is talking about the 'anticlimaxes' that are persistent throughout the story. The story is TRYING to subvert every foreshadowing that it gives you at every single plot point, therefore everytime it makes you believe there will be a climax it has an anticlimax instead.
I love stories that subvert my expectations but if it is the whole gimmick of the story, the story just turns out like shit.
I think you're just a bit paranoid, there was simultaneous build up that Pariston was up to something and things would get screwed up. It was obvious that Leorio wasn't going to win, sort of like how in sports anime you know they'll lose the game if they start out too strong.
Yes there was some build up to pariston winning and being a big bad guy and his evil plans for the organization. Which was then subverted because he wins and it turns out he was just a nostalgic son of a bitch who resigns immediately.
Pariston fucks around and does whatever you don't want him to do, he's just that sort of 'expect the unexpected' character. I don't think it was intended to subvert our expectations in the same way a lot of other stuff in HxH is.
Because they know kiddies eat this faggy shit up
To be fair, said magic power asspull isn't exactly an asspull. We saw nearly comparable Nen power in the Greed Island arc, between the Breath of Archangel and the Risky Dice. Keep in mind everything about that game was made with Nen by 10 people. The fact that Killua had direct access to the person with that power that he conveniently forgot about due to the pin? Total asspull. The power itself? We've seen more absurd uses of Nen, and the Nen system is still fairly internally consistent.
>literally no consistency between pannels
Ok then autist, if you don't liek the character design in 2011 then you say that you don't fucking shit talk the whole series for a minor aesthetic reason
jesus fucking christ adn you call otehrs autismo
oh man the last mmissionn is fucking garabe
holy shit i raged through out - took twice as long to get through
because directors want to make a name for themselves
its always about gain
To be fair, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Are you honestly saying you want the anime art to be faithful to this?
Why would I be upset? I'm just pointing out that the manga's art isn't exactly consistent. Heck, it's been so long since I read it that I wasn't even aware it was getting redrawn.
Every time we talk about OP, Bleach, Naruto etc. a retarded HxH fan show up and starts arguing about his "well written shounen" and how the others battle shounen are for plebs. That's what I mean by hipster.
What's worse is that you faggots tricked me in reading this garbage and the writing was literally naruto shippuden-tier.
It's hardly /a/. If you actually go to the threads it's very obvious it's full of redditors or crossboarders. The tripfag from earlier is an exemple.
Weren't you talking about the chicken scratch chapters? Those came out around 2004-2005.