Agrias > Erza > Saber

>>134078995
nothing to discuss here tbfh famfam

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>>134078995
What about Claire?

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>>134078995
Ravness >>> Agrias > Erza > Saber

>>134079050
If going by her final form, she stomps every earth-bound character within the Nasu-verse.

>>134079220
damn, i gotta finish that game it's one of the best i ever played

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Who is anime Meliadoul?

>>134078995
We need a FFT anime someday.

>>134079220
That pic sums up why I did the Law route the first time through. I'm a horrible person.

>>134080563
>not equipping Maintenance on everyone prior to that battle, thus making Meliadoul useless

>>134080784
Never forget that one chart that a WOTL anime was on.

It wasn't even a troll chart.

I believed dammit.

>>134080932
I understand that feeling, FFT is probably the best FF that you could use to make an anime about, and it really would be amazing if Square just tried to make one.

>>134080872
i don't have a strategy.
just brute force everything.

>>134079220
Raveness was added to Tactics Ogre because of Agrias popularity.

>>134080985
>just brute force everything

To brute force everything you have to grind like a mother fucker.
That is literally the dumbest way to play FFT.

>>134080985
You can brute force FFT, is it possible to brute force Stella Glow?

>>134081132
You can really only brute force things in FFT during endgame.

>>134080563

By the time that fight happened, I already had math-based magic available. It was just a matter of disabling the enemy and then stealing their shit.

>>134080784
Seven Deadly Sins is probably closest we'll get to a FFT anime

Delita literally did nothing wrong

>>134081318
Or if you spend like 100 hours grinding in Chapter 1.

>>134081193
Yeah, but you might not get all the objectives and grinding is really pointless.

>>134081456
Yes he did, he betrayed so much people he lost sight of himself and became everything he hated and killed the only woman he loved and lost his best friend.

>>134080563
I wasted so many hours to get the full genji gear baka

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>>134080563
>Making poor Agrias pay rent
Meliadoul is a bastard!

>>134079553
>Implying she can touch ARC

Arienai. Not that ARC is Earthbound mind you, but you secondary likely don't know that.

>>134081614
Except Delita's rule was apparently long and peaceful. He just dicked over scheming nobles and churchmen using the same methods they used. Ramza taking his own path isn't really anyone's fault, since Ramza is Ramza.

Who knows with Ovelia though. He didn't expect her to go batshit.

>>134080563
Meliadoul is so fucking cool except Square thought it was smart to have her join your party AFTER YOU GET CID WHO IS LITERALLY BETTER THAN EVERYONE IN EVERY SINGLE WAY

>>134082098
The idea was that Delita was successful, but he wasn't happy since he betrayed himself to become the Hero King, the thing with Ovelia is the result of all his manipulations making her not trust him.

>>134082194
Well, you do need more party members beside Cid and Ramza.

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>>134082194

>>134082244
>Well, you do need more party members beside Cid and Ramza.

But Cid leaves her with no role to fill, so there's no point in having her.

>>134082262

Still hurts. I wish they hacked the game like FFVII so you could have her back as a generic character with custom look.

>>134082269
Well, then the only option is to have her fill the same role Agrias does post-Cid, she is there to be a waifu.

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>>134078995
Ramza>*

>>134082333
Agrias post recruitment is a mute doll with no story role or personality it makes me sad.

She's a beast in combat though.

>Ramza in act 3
>Dat shit tier armor
>Can't wear the superb Act 2 armor

Fuck everything.

>>134082368

She does get some events, but they're fairly obscurely hidden.

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>>134082194
The one thing she has over him is that she can equip women's only equipment like the Chantage.

>>134082368

>trained her max in every combat role
>use as a dancer with thief secondary because mathmagic is so overpowered who gives a fuck

>>134082368
That always made me mad, since the game gives her a big arc to recruit her, and then just does nothing with her, even though she should be the second main character right after Ramza in this.

>>134082398
Act 2 amor is the black one? That one is just so great, it makes me mad that in Dissidia they made his Act 1 costume his default mode.

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>>134078995
Melodiana > *

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>>134078995
Argas > Nuwangi > Shinji

>>134082244
Yeah, Delita didn't get the happiest end. And to be fair, I don't remember Goltana being an asshole like Larg or Dycedarg or the Church.

>tfw I lost my favorite screenshot of the time I wanted to slaughter pigs for items so I went into battle and found myself surrounded by something like forty monks

Fucking PETA.

>>134082834
Goltana was a decent guy, but sadly he was involved with not so good guys and he was pat of the politics of Ivalice.

Also the best part of WotL is the fact that you can kill Argas again, that is always so good.

PSX or PSP version?

>>134078995

I want all three of them licking my dick spotlessly clean while wearing their armor and serious expressions.

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>>134082269
you can smash equipment twice as quickly with 2 people!

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>>134082580
well, it's more brown than black in the art work, and sort of purple in the game.
I agree about Dissidia though, I think Ramza's chapter 2/3 gear is his definitive look.

>>134083150
I think it's because it resonates more with Ramza's character, his Act 1 look is him before he lost his innocence/naivety and his Act 2 fits more Ramza who know understands how the world really works but even so tries to do the right thing.

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>>134082913
I almost wish Argas stayed in the party longer. Then he could take the blame for Miluda's death too.

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His Dissidia look is disappointing but at least it's not his Act 3 gear which looks like shit. Nice color, but looks like shit.

>>134083329
Nah, Ramza screwing up like that is a good thing for the game, if Ramza is too clean then his fall in Chap 1 won't work properly.

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>>134082834
That Monk girl doesn't really look into it.

Goltana wasn't a schemer like the others, but he did wage a war that brought a lot of suffering to a lot of people for little better reason than his desire to be king.
He also was a bit too quick to distrust Orlandu, who was genuinely loyal to him.

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>>134083456
I don't get it.

>>134083477
Ramza is breaking the game by shooting while jumping which means people can't attack him.

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>>134083329
is that left Priest trying to breast-feed from her?
I suppose commoners weren't well-educated in those days.

>>134083338
I actually quite like Ramza's chapter 4 gear, though I preferred his chapter 2+3 gear

>>134083553
Jumping as in a Dragoon's jump? You can shoot while jumping? I haven't played in a LONG time but how the hell does that work?

>>134083625
>I actually quite like Ramza's chapter 4 gear, though I preferred his chapter 2+3 gear
It doesn't look bad in the artwork, I hate how it looks ingame though.

>>134083633
Yeah, if I remember right if you Jump with a gun you bug the game and you get stuck in the sky, so you end up just staying there shooting at people.

>>134083456
>Dat female knight punching the shit out of that chocobo

Females have such cool looks in the game. Is there even any reason to recruit any males that aren't named characters?

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>>134083338
Is Agrias checking out Ramza's ass? What's she saying?

>>134083477
It's a reference to a Glitch. You equip a character with a Gun then make them use Jump on a character with Blade Grasp, your character's sprite ends up stuck in the air.
They can still move around and attack though.

>>134083723
No. Not really.

Every single tactics game, my entire army has been mostly females. In the GBA games you can hardly tell the difference anyway.

>>134083625
Having your ass cheeks spread constantly looks uncomfortable.

>>134082932

I only played the psp version. What's different on the psx?

>>134084132
PSP has some additions and a better translation, but it makes some of the game's most iconic and memorable lines way shittier.

>>134084220

Is there a list of the differences in dialog?

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>>134083723
>Is there even any reason to recruit any males that aren't named characters?
Male thieves get cool hats, but the girls don't!

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>>134083723
FFT has my favourite H-art ever.
Based Branch.

>>134084508

The girls get headbands with status debuff immunities instead.

>>134082194
Meh, I benched the thunder god after I got him because holy shit, I don't need to make a easy game even easier. So I wasted hours making Ramza/Agrias/Meliadoul tier 8 Onion Knights on the PSP version.

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>>134084353
it's like a totally different script, not just a few different lines.
I mean, the story's the same, and what they say usually has the same meaning, but it's all been retranslated, and whatnot.
The original Playstation version didn't have that dodgy shakespeare stuff.

The PSP version also added a bunch of bonus fights and scenes, like the one where Meliadoul's a guest after she joined you, and helps you fight Kletian, some fight where Agrias is a guest again, that scene where Agrias meets Ovelia again, etc.
I heard the PSP has some dodgy loading times too, and that there's something off with the sound.

>>134082269
Loading your party down with as many swordskillers as you can is a valid tactic. And then you give everyone dual wield and go play catch with ninjas in the Deep dungeon for a couple of hours so everyone has haste and shell/protect/regen on.

>>134084220
I can never forgive the PSP version for losing lines like "blame yourself or god".

>>134084714
they don't look cool, though

>>134082368
Fucking hated what happens to people once you recruit them.

>>134084913

Girls have boobs, they don't need to look cool.

>>134084881

Loading times were nonissue for me since I played it from the memory stick. If I used the UMD version, I can see there being annoying load times.

>>134083338
Ramza does have one fine ass.

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>>134084887
Personally, I'll never forgive them for changing Rad's name to Ladd.
Philistines!
>>134084913
Following on from this, while I like the male Thieves' sprites, I think they look like fannies in their official art.

>>134084887
And I can't forgive them for that completely out of place confession scene from Mustadio. Seriously, what the hell was that scene for?

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>>134084939
>boobs
those are barely visible on Tactics sprites, though.

>>134084887
They removed age old meme lines which I'm thankful for.

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>>134078995
>Women

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>>134078995

Various girls from Suikoden > Various girls from Dragon Quest > Various girls from Slayers > Various girls from Utawarerumono > Celes > Agrais

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>Only relevant for 1 chapter then get killed off the plot
>can't even use squire skills
Why is Agrias popular again

>>134085554
But Chris was basically a brick.

>>134085350
Translate pls.

>>134085568
Because waifu that is also a top tier character.

>>134078995
Obviously, Final Fantasy > Fate shit

>>134085554
Christ entire fucking chapter was being shown around various places until she stumbled back into the plot and became a tertiary character, unless you murdered the very concept of plausibility by making her the Fire Champion. I especially liked how they brushed the whole massacre thing under the rug. Hugo gets one scene where he decides murdering her wasn't the top priority at that moment, and the next scene they get together is at the very end and they are somehow BFFs then.

III's writing was all over the fucking place in general though, so it's not like it's only Chris. Remember that genocided clan nobody ever mentions again once they become buddies with Sasarai?

>>134085606

>a brick

Yes, she did hit like a brick. You could even say she's a brick house.

>>134085616
on Gelbooru, it seemed like most of the text was just the names of their abilities

>>134085554
Speaking of which, I never did finish Suikoden5 and I no longer have a PS2. Should borrow my friend's thats been rotting in the basement and finish the game.

My major gripe is that the "intro" part of the story for the game takes for fucking ever though.

>>134085842
Yeah but I didn't get the last one. Got it now, thanks.

>>134085775

Chris (like the three other main characters) had three chapters devoted to her. A lot of her development comes from interacting with other characters (the other Zexen Knights, Nash, Yun, etc). She's also one of the rare examples of a main character who questions her role in life, but still stays strong and follows through with it. Unlike Agrias and most FF characters.

I won't claim Suikoden III is the best written game ever. Mostly because it was rushed and unfinished. If the creator had been given the time and budget he asked for, it could have been one of the best games ever made. Instead, we got a game with a smaller budget than a Tales spin off.

Fun fact: It doesn't matter who you pick as the fire bringer since Thomas is still the Tenkai Star. Making him the true main character.

>>134082194
>using Cid

Why the hell do people use Orlandu? He completely breaks the game. I always tell that OP fucker to get lost.
Besides female ninja equipped with chantage is literally immortal.

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Frimelda>Ravness>Agrias

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>>134085806
She's weakest mc, even Thomas can become stronger.

>>134085846
The Godwins become the most harmless villains since forever the moment you get female Zhuge Liang.
>tfw you'll never get to impregnate Miakis

>>134085846

I don't think Suikoden V is as good as Suikoden I-III. Mostly because the story is self contained and has almost nothing to do with the original trilogy. Even after you get through the 10 hour prologue and get to move around freely, you are still just limited to going to set areas and triggering hours of dialogue.

Every game after Suikoden III is basically like the Star Wars prequels. Self contained stories which ultimately lead nowhere.

>>134085963
Thomas gets silly once endgame hits. Beating up people with him felt fantastic.
Felt like I was using Frodo to kill people.

>>134085963

Not when you exploit the bug to make her level 99 in the first hour of the game.

>>134085846
It kinda has to, since this is the one game where they make sure you properly give a shit about the whole country you're ostensibly saving. Every other game is "Welp, your countrymen are cunts. Go get a strategist and fuck them all up for the sake of these other foreigners/rebels you just met."

As a bonus it does wonders to flesh out a hell of a lot of characters before you meet them. There's no Pallet-Swap Kage in that game.

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>>134082194
>Not exclusively using generics
It's like you don't want to focus spam.

>>134082772

de masu

>>134086023
Suikoden 3 had me in tears at the end.
In Suikoden 1 and 2 I always used Luc cause he was best mage and then in 3 he's the final boss and he dies ;_;

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>>134085973
Lucretia was so damn awful.
Tactician with the answer to anything that know everything.

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>>134086046

I genuinely enjoyed the Thomas chapters. I love the idea of having a no name guy become head of a castle and then take his own initiative to go find people to defend it. From his own idiot dad no less. Plus his assistant was so cute.

God Suikoden III needs a remake so badly.

>>134080784

That'd never happen unless it's something like an OVA, it's not moe enough and the story is way too complex and interesting. We can barely get video games with stories and characters like that one anymore let alone games.

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>>134082772
Elizasleyn > Melouseless

>>134086193
Suikoden 3 doesn't need a remake. It still holds up fine.
Tbh I'd like a Suikoden game that centers around the bullshit happening in Harmonia with Hikkusaak missing and all the political weight being thrown around.

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>>134085846

If you're playing Suikoden V for the story or characters, its pretty much a let down. You just always follow what the story says, or you are punished for it.

The gameplay is really the best part of the game. Which isn't saying much since its still just a slower, weaker version of Suikoden II.

Lyon is also one of the most annoying characters in the series. She is literally a clone of Eruuruu from Utawarerumono. Gets mad anytime someone gets close to the prince, but then never acts herself.

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>>134086193
Cecile becoming unkillable by endgame was fun.

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>>134085947
to be fair, by the time Orlandu turns up, the game's already a cakewalk.
Even if you're playing for the first time, or aren't going out of your way to make your characters broken, very little in Chapter 4 can stand up to your squad.

>>134086287
I killed the Sun rune with two elves, a random fisherwoman and a insane girl with a 9-shooter crossbow, Suiko V was fine.

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>>134078995
Agrias thread? Holy shit!

>>134085935
>Chris (like the three other main characters) had three chapters devoted to her.

Yes, I played the game. The only one of the three that gets something of a developing story is Geddoe, and even that one ends farting out once he gets to the Fire Rune. Everything involving Hugo and Chris is vague meandering about the countryside, until Harmonia invades and they also get to the rune. The bulk of Suikoden III is spent wandering about, building up to a war that never fucking happens because the whole thing gets sidetracked by an evil wizard about to blow up the continent and all personal and political plotlines grind to a halt and get forgotten. It's all slow buildup to fuck-all.

>It doesn't matter who you pick as the fire bringer since Thomas is still the Tenkai Star. Making him the true main character.

This sounds like an attempt to salvage how bad the game is about getting any of the character plotlines to conclusion. Thomas has a side-plot that gets resolved by a Home Alone-tier "battle" and then he even gets booted off his room by whoever gets the rune. That's it. He's another character who vanishes from relevance once the Flame Champion is found. Which is not to say that whoever gets the rune actually does much better.

>>134086310
Well that's just because FFT isn't a hard game as it is unless you restrict yourself in some way. Like a Solo Character Class Challenge.

>>134086263

>Suikoden 3 doesn't need a remake. It still holds up fine.
Not at all. It was slow and clunky even when it came out. I actually like the combat in Suikoden III (because of the skill point system). But even I have to admit that pairing characters while having almost zero combo attacks was a bad design choice. A remake could fix that by either not forcing characters to be paired up or having tons more combos tied to runes.

The story is also very unfinished. Chris and Geddoe's stories end in a weak way. Hugo's story is weak overall. And Luc's story was weak all around.

Suikoden III, like Chrono Cross, was an unfinished, underfunded game. Both need remakes, but will probably never get them.

>>134086431
You almost had me until you dissed Chrono Cross.

>>134086502

I didn't 'diss' Chrono Cross. I said it was rushed and unfinished. Which is so well known, even Matoko Kato said it.

>>134081132
>Grind

Isn't that part of the point with these games. Mainly to get the Ability Points necessary for certain abilities?

>>134086287
>You just always follow what the story says, or you are punished for it.

That's the most idiotic possible complaint you could have for a Suikoden game. There is exactly one goddamn time in the entire rest of the franchise when you're given a choice: flee from Tinto or stay, and picking one just leads to punishment.

>Lyon is also one of the most annoying characters in the series. She is literally a clone of Eruuruu from Utawarerumono. Gets mad anytime someone gets close to the prince, but then never acts herself.

Oh, it's YOU! The crazy fucker with the hateboner for Lyon. I remember you, you're literally the only guy I've ever heard describe Lyon like that. Really, mention one scene when that happens. Just one. Go on. I'll wait.

>>134078995
Agrias is awful though. Was really disappointed with her when I played Tactics. Her character just drops out of the story.

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>>134086287
>That part Lyon get stabbed and Miakis replace her

>>134086642
Everyone drops out of the story the moment they join you.

>>134086642
Every character drops out of the story when they graduate from Guest to Party Member.

>>134086611

In Suikoden II, you are given choices to take Shu's advice or take someone elses. In one case, Shu's advice is not the best advice to follow, proving even the perfect strategist can mess things up.

In Suikoden V, Lucretia is never wrong. Yet the game still gives you the option to go against her advice. And if you do, you are punished for it by not recruiting a character or losing a battle. So its pointless to even give the player an option.

So no, there are other times when choices matter besides the one you're remembering selectively.

>Really, mention one scene when that happens. Just one. Go on. I'll wait.
Go reply the game. She interrupts people all the time. Which is necessary since the prince is a silent MC. But her being such a Tsundere prick is not necessary. Nanami fulfilled the same role without being so flustered and bitchy about it.

I'm not going to go watch hours of lets plays just to provide an example to you.

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Are y'all even trying? Best girl right here.

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>>134086611

>Oh, it's YOU! The crazy fucker with the hateboner for Lyon.
Oh look, its you. The guy who blindly defends Suikoden V to the death. And last time went as far to claim he hated Suikoden II just to make Suikoden V that much better.

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>>134078995
>Final Fantasy Tactics Thread
>Agrias and miscellaneous Thread


Well, isn't this interesting.

>>134087100
You can't hate Suikoden 2.
Like I don't think its physically possible to hate Suikoden 2.

>>134086769

Which is why I've never understood why people think FF Tactics is the best story ever written. Not just in gaming, but people claim its the best story EVER written in any medium.

When in reality, its like every FF cliche crammed into one sloppy story. The church is evil, nobility is bad, everyone hates you because you're special but nobility hates you for not being special enough, your best friend betrays you but not really...my god. The only story more poorly written is FFIV and X.

>>134087013
>In Suikoden II, you are given choices to take Shu's advice or take someone elses. In one case, Shu's advice is not the best advice to follow, proving even the perfect strategist can mess things up.

This is a lie. A flat-out fucking lie. There are no branching sections in II other than Tinto. There are no branching sections in THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE. You ALWAYS follow Shu's advice, because the game never gives any choice in the matter, ever.

>So no, there are other times when choices matter besides the one you're remembering selectively.

Then mention ONE.

>Go reply the game.

I finished a replay the other week actually.

I told YOU to mention one scene. No, I don't care about your claims. You just claimed there are branching sections in fucking Suikoden II of all things, it's clear your memory isn't worth shit.

I want an actual example of
>Gets mad anytime someone gets close to the prince

WHEN does that happen? because all you do is claim it totally does, but can never recall a single instance of it.

>>134087313
I dropped Suiko II because I was bored by the half point.

>>134087364
>look at me, mom, I'm being cotrarian on the internet

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>>134087390

>>134087100
No, you insane motherfucker, you're just crazy. I made the point that the weakest section of all Suikoden II is the weakest section if Suikoden II, and you went berserk because you can't take any fucking criticism. Now answer the actual questions instead of constructing idiotic strawmans of things nobody said.

You made claims: provide examples.

>>134087313

That guy has said he didn't like Suikoden II in past threads because people pointed out how Suikoden V was trying to imitate Suikoden II. He basically fell into the most basic argument trap. People pointed out that the combat for Suikoden V was like Suikoden II with less features and slower animations. So he lashed out against Suikoden II.

His biggest defense for Suikoden V is also how 'every other Suikoden game does the same shit'. As you can see in his post up at >>134086611 where he tries to lessen the faults of Suikoden V by saying there are no other impacting choices in previous Suikoden games. Which is just wrong.

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>>134087313
>Not always dropping after Luca dies.

>>134086385

https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1096571

She already did. Way back when the game was released.

>>134087499
>That guy has said he didn't like Suikoden II in past threads

See >>134087499

Everything you said is a lie. Now back up your claims already.

>People pointed out that the combat for Suikoden V was like Suikoden II with less features

You just made that up too. But yeah, that's wrong. How the hell does it have less features? It's literally the Suikoden II combat but the the addition of skills, Parry, Counter, SPD-based multiple strikes and support characters from Suikoden III, and V's original formation changes and formation skills.

So it's like Suikoden II's but with MORE features.

Like, this is what I mean. You either lie, or just say shit that is instantly and obviously proven wrong. Are you sure you're not just legit crazy?

>>134080563
Got that in gif format? Or is there a video you could link?

>>134081836
>Earthbound

I liked it better when it was called MOTHER 2.

>>134087499
>there are no other impacting choices in previous Suikoden games

I'm sure you'll be mentioning some any day now.

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>>134087740
>>134087382

>back up your claims!

Months ago when we had one of these stuoid debates on /v/, I provided a like to a let's play. You ignored it and just went right on demanding I provide a better source.

In other words, its pointless arguing with someone who demands evidence, then ignores it. So now for the good of this thread, I'm going to ignore you. Have fun getting mad and I know I'll see you again in the future.

>>134087546

If they were going to make prequel/spin off Suikoden games, why didn't they just make one about Sierra and Neclord and the origin of the Blue Moon Rune? Or the origin of Viki and her adventures in time travel. Or the origin of Luc, Sasarai and the Harmonian Empire. Or about a dozen other prequels that actually had ties to the original games.

>>134086310

FFT has this weird inverse difficulty curve to it. By the end of the game that hardest fights were Wiegraf and that Balk one with the top level enemies that hit 3 times and can even kill Orlandu.

>>134087971
>I provided a like to a let's play

This may amaze you, you insane crazy fucker, but there's more than one person who thinks you're insane. People just recognize you because you have this avartfaggy obsession with posting images with every reply. I haven't spoken to anybody about Suikoden in 4chan for like a year and a half if not more and you have never provided any Let's Play.

But yeah, that let's play would be a good start. What are the odds you'll now find yourself completely incapable of finding it?

Also, again, what features are in Suikoden II's combat that are lacking in V's? Don't think I'm gonna let you skip that shit, that was real dumb.

Also, where are those branching paths you said

>>134087971
Because the creator fucked off and didn't leave notes about any of that.

>>134081132
>>134081318
I like to grind Ramza up to Lv.99 in the first chapter and have him learn other job skills through the inherent shared JP mechanic. What's more, I like to steal ALL unmaintained equipment in non-random battles and finish all encounters WITHOUT letting defeated enemies chest or crystalize.

>>134087364

It's actually a lot more complicated and involved than that but the internet loves it's reduction thing where it pars entire concepts down to something that sounds really stupid and simplistic.

>>134084132
Don't forget that slowdown during every special attack/magic animation. Ruined the game for me.

>>134082932
Neither; PSX got a half-assed translation and the PSP played too fast and loose with the localization.

>>134088286
I honestly never noticed it.

The fact that one of the most active threads on one of the busiest days for anime in what's usually it's busiest season is a thread about an almost 20 year old video game is pretty hilarious. It's also one of the better threads /a/s had in a while since it's not all just idiots shitposting/fakeposting and trolling about some shitty waifu series.

Anyway this really is it, the worst year for TV anime ever. 2016 will really have to pull out all the stops to go lower

>>134087971
I suppose you mean this:
https://desustorage.org/a/thread/131554142/#131559054

Yeah, that wasn't me. But you really need to learn what the fuck Tsundere means.

Also, where's that let's play?

>>134088286
I think you can find a patch for it now.

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>>134087364
As far as JRPG's go it's pretty good and the War of the Lions script is fantastic.

>>134088369
Have you played the psx version?

>>134088177

The creator left a ton of material. He even said the story was leading up to a big war with Harmonia vs all the surrounding nations. So the next two games we get are...halfway around the world and nothing to do with Harmonia?

The teams that took over after the creator left just tried to change the series into something new. And it was a bad decision.

>>134088286

Everything in FFTactics is slow. I mean, the camera has so slowly pan and center on a character every time they talk. This takes a dialogue segment that should be 2 minutes long and makes to 15 minutes long. Especially that horrible fight at the guillotine.

And don't forget. If you die, the game resets back your previous save. So you are forced to watch that 15 minute dialogue sequence again. With no option to skip it.

>>134088604
Yes.
>>134088634
The teams didn't know what the fuck to do once the fucker left but were still told to milk the franchise.

>>134085069
>they look like fannies in their official art

I don't know what the sod that means.

>>134088486
Yeah there is. If you have a custom firmware psp you can just run the patch alongside the UMD.

>>134088478
Wish I knew who that artist was/where to find his artwork.

>>134088729
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RQrgo1ytfA
psx emulated on the left. psp versions in the middle and right.

fucking stasis sword takes twice as long to land on psp version. This make calculator class a nightmare for me.

>>134088880
Is it really so fucking hard to use iqdb ot just googling the image?

>>134089112
it is

>>134088880
I wish I could find ALL of Akihiko Yoshida's artwork for FFT.

>>134089186
Same.

>>134084884
While we're on the topic, I'm rather irked that they didn't make the Two-Hands support skill inherent to the Soldier job class.

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Best Generic. Best Girl.

>>134087364
More like it's the story of Europe around 600 years ago. Power games everywhere, Church included. Minus the Lucavi plot.

>>134087971
>If they were going to make prequel/spin off Suikoden games, why didn't they just make one about Sierra and Neclord and the origin of the Blue Moon Rune?

Because Sierra's story was finished in Suikogaiden, Neclord had already worn himself really thin as a character, downgraded from serious threat to recurring annoyance (seriously, the plot isn't even "How do we kill him?" but rather "How do we scrub him off our boots for good?" by the end), and the entire deal with Georg supposedly having killed the Queen of Falena was kins of a massive deal that was established as far back as II, and his character already existed in I. Zweig and Lorelai's incursion into the Twilight Ruins were even in Suikogaiden as well.

>>134089654

>just by talking turns you into a chicken

>>134090181
>Killey. Killey and Lorelai. My bag.

>>134088896
You can download a plugin to fix PSP lag.

>>134090721
I would've have cared closer to when the game came out years ago.

>>134090815
The plugins were released years ago.

>>134090181

But Georg Prime's backstory still didn't get much attention in Suikoden I-II. Then when it happened in Suikoden V, it still was overshadowed by all the events before and after it. It just feels like Georg Prime was never handled well. He was an afterthought, even in a game made specifically to connect his story to Suikoden II. It would be like if they made a game entirely around Futch's backstory in the Dragon Knights. But then the only part that focuses on him is getting his dragon and the rest of the game he's just a tag along character.

>>134090933
vs. when the game came out? I'm sure it was at least 2 years later when I stopped caring

>>134090933
>>134091148
game came out in 2007. patch dates back around the 2012 with quick googling. Yep, certainly lost interest entirely by then.

>>134088717
If you're clicking through the speech as quickly as you can, none of the in-battle dialogue lasts 5 minutes, much less 15.
Did you choose the faster message display speed in the options?

I don't think I've ever found the camera all that slow either. Are you talking about the PSP version or something?

>>134091413
Yes he is. He replied to my post about the psp slowdown.

>critical: quick
>mathmagic with every magic unlocked
>rest of the team just hits the mathmage and heals

>>134091503
Just stick Excalibur on the Math guy and spam Holy.

>>134088739
I guess I'm just trying to say they look like twats

>>134091556

Remind me, when do you get excalibur again?

>>134091826
When you get orlandu.

>>134091503

>"It calculates faster or it gets the stick!"

>>134090937
>He was an afterthought

So? The other guy suggested making a game about fucking Sierra, as if she were any different.

None of the Suikoden main plots have much to do with one another. The wars in Toran, Dunan and the Grasslands weren't cause and effect, they just happened on their own for different reasons. The games are only connected by the recurring characters and underlying plot threads running in parallel. You're never going to get "A Suikoden Game About character X", at best you get a Suikoden game where Character X's plot gets developed in the midst of all the others.

If III's attempt at recurring-character-driven plot is what a character-centric Suikoden looks like, I'd much rather they stick to the unconnected wars, thank you. Luc went from slightly-cunty taciturn brat to I MUST BLOW UP A QUARTER OF THE PLANET TO FREE IT FROM THE COSMIC FORCES TRENDING TOWARDS OPPRESSIVE ORDER MAYBE SORTA WE KINDA JUST PULLED THIS ONE OUTTA NOWHERE evil wizard in between fifteen years you never get to see, and all the game did was leave me wishing they stuck to the small-scale regional conflicts from there on out. Part of these games' appeal was how they DIDN'T try to escalate everything to a world-leveling event.

"Magical Nuke" mcguffin threats like the Souleater or the Sun Rune are okay, but the Luc plot just went way too far with a character that never gave any hint of heading in that direction.

>>134091826
Or a Chameleon robe, which you can get way before the Wiegraf fight.

>>134091956
>>134091556

Oh, you mean heal the guy with holys. The point is to stay at the edge of critical hp, dip below it with some light punches and other small damage hits, trip the critical:quick, cast mathmagic, heal up above crit hp, rinse and repeat.

>>134092089

Here's the kicker, though:

My mathmage guy was Ramza. I had a generic girl, Agrias and another girl or two just dedicated on punching Ramzas dick to trigger the crit:quick.

Ramza should've gotten his own unique class just like his spiritual predecessor Denim did instead of just having squire with a few extra support abilities

>>134092434
It wouldn't make sense in-story. He was a Squire which would have probably lead to becoming Arc Knight et al.
Since he sorta jumped ship pretty early on. He would have only stayed a Squire.

He still should have had a unique class.

>>134088138

Not him, but in 2 there's a slightly branching path where you can get Ridley killed and his son takes over. You can run when Nanami suggests it during your story arc with neclord's zombie's. You get surrounded and Ridley comes to save your shit and dies in the process and Shu tells you never to be a bitch nigger ever again.

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Don't mind me, just upgraded your Agrias.

>>134092982
Why does this guy never get translations for his stuff. For fuck's sake.

>>134092924
See the original >>134086287 and my reply >>134086611.

That's what this was about. Complaining about V being linear and having some choices that lead to bad results is spectacularly nonsensical, when the only other similar branching choice in the entire franchise is the one in Tinto, which similarly leads to a bad result.

Who quotes linearity as a negative for only one game when every single other one the franchise is just if not more linear? He also said the game allows you to reject Shu's advice and it leading to it being the good choice, when no such thing ever happens.

>>134091503
>>134091871
Maybe it's for the best that Ramza was forgotten by history.

>>134092982
More like a downgrade.

Furry shit please go.

>>134092691
The special skills he learns should have turned his class into Heretic or something. Maybe they couldn't think of a class name good enough. In story terms, he wins a ludicrous number of death matches.

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>White Mage with Punch Art equipped

>>134085300
To remove the Agrias shippers.

>>134086232
I only liked her because raping her into joining you was wonderful.

>>134085300
To get your dick hard when Ramza steals her away in front of his eyes

>>134093892
Is that good?

>>134093980
Can be, since if I remember right Punch Art uses both physical and magic stats. And with Chakra you can heal your own MP.

>>134087364
It's more praised for the general plot rather than the chracters, people just loved how good the politics/backstabbing was in this game.

>>134084220
The translator seemed to be allergic to the letter "s" in names.

>>134084881
There's slowdown during graphically intense attacks like Agris and Gafgarion's, so the sound finishes out of sync with the attack. Apparently it's programmed this way.

>>134092924

Don't bother responding to him. He just keeps repeating the same garbage with no source, then demands other people provide a source to back their claims up.

Notice how he even ignored the examples you provided and just returned back to his 'no, there's only one example in the whole series!' argument.

>>134092205
Yes that's the spirit, Agrias carring her Ramza around and protecting her pure boy.

>>134094101

I've seen plenty of things with much better politics. From Suikoden to Utawarerumono.

I really think the majority of people obsess over FFTactics because it was one of the earliest games they played with a heavy political plot. or just a focus on plot at all.

>>134094308
Remember that FFT is more mainstream, so that's why it would be remembered more, and even so you have to admit that it feels unique compared to how most mainline FF games would handle these things.

>>134092205
>Implying Ramza 'I power up like a shounen hero by yelling a lot before punching several gods to death with my fists' Beoulve needs to be princess carried to safety.

>>134094389
Anon if your waifu wanted to protect you, wouldn't you let her?

>>134094499
Anon, when you can punch gods to death, your waifu wouldn't even be able to stand from her constant orgasms from just being next to you, much less princess carry you.

>>134094308
It is not that common to actually have a heavy political plot in a game without it being ruined by some cute shit inserted for god knows what reason.

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>>134078995
Hi, can I join your club?

Where do you suppose Ramza, Alma and company went after the credits rolled?

>>134094255
Nigger, I pointed that one instance right there in my very first reply, because it was exactly the same thing you were complaining about when it happened in V. I said it was stupid to complain about in in regards to II when the only time anything like that ever happens, it's the exact same "Disobey and get a bad result" in II.

Just to tally it up, here's the list of things you've claimed are true but have yet to source in any way:

-Suikoden's II combat has features V's doesn't.
-There are instances in II where the game allows you to disobey Shu, and it ends up being the proper choice.
-Lyon acts tsundere and gets angry at anyone who gets close to Frey.

Do you actually have some kind of mental issue that makes it impossible for you to admit you're wrong?

I love II, but I can still point out it has issues in parts. Namely the Tinto subplot being kind of a bundle of convenient coincidences, the absolute batshit retiredness of the entire "You know what'll get you properly focused for the final battle? CRIPPLING EMOTIONAL TRAUMA" shitshow with Nanami and a war system that could have been pretty good but gets ruined by the idiotic chance-to-clash-two-armies-and-not-cause-any-damage dice rolling system.

I love V as well, and can also accept it has issues such as villains that never quite rise up to be the threat they pose right at the start and the whole matter with Sialeeds being presented somewhat unconvincingly. Plus the whole thing with having the final war battle so far apart from the proper finale kinda robbed the climax out of its punch. It felt like the Ashtwal Mountains was more of a cleanup than the real end up of the game.

The difference is that I can actually acknowledged these things. You're a deranged fanboy who reacts like threatened mama bear any time anybody suggests anything negative about the thing you're fanboying over, and your arguments are based around provable nonsense and claims concocted out of thin air.

I wish this game were more consistently challenging. The first few battles are a pain, but soon they just become a waste of a few minutes.

Then there are a few annoying bosses and challenges.

I want to lose frequently, and have to find the perfect strategy for each battle. By the end I had to restrain myself in order to steal what I wanted.

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I remember buying all these when I didn't even need them. It felt comfortable just reading them.

Fuck the Final Fantasy 9 one though with its PlayOnline.

>>134094633
Incest. Lots and lots of forbidden and kinky incestual sex. Oh, and Agrias and the other females comes by and joins them in it once in a while. The others died while travelling back to their planet or something.

>>134094308
>Suikoden
I've always heard good thing about that game, but never played it.
Should I play them all in a sequence or go right to 2?

>>134094705

>Just to tally it up, here's the list of things you've claimed are true but have yet to source in any way:
So every person who points out your broken argument is the same person?

I'm not the one who was saying the things you claim I was saying. At least three people have contradicted you. But if you think we're all the same person, then no wonder people stop replying to you. Ironic given your statements above.

>>134094718
Roof of Riovanes Castle was the only really challenging battle because you could accidentally lock yourself into it and Rafa is suicidally stupid.

>>134094633
They went to the other countries and had new adventures with Ramza being a hero.

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>those Agrias doujins done in the same artstyle as the game

>>134094780

Suikoden I-III are an ongoing trilogy and should be played in order. The rest are prequels or spin offs and can be played whenever. I would even say they're not necessarily worth playing, but of course that one Suikoden V fag is gonna jump on me for making an opinion.

>>134094780
Play them all, in sequence, the first three at least.

>>134094847
Well, Rafa was trying to kill herself after her brother was killed. Was probably trying to go for a suicide attack.

>>134094308
If by better politics you mean less treachery and backstabbing, sure.

>>134085541
hoy shit did the jojo anime always look this bad?

>>134094751
That guide was actually pretty useful just for the lists of commands.

>>134094874
Meh, it's likely that one who likes suikoden enough to be playing the first three will even play suikoden tactics.

>>134094931

By better politics I mean the politics are more of a factor to the overall story and better written. For example, the events in Highland causing Jowy to want to rebel against his homeland is already a better political motivation than in FFTactics. Where everyone hates you simply for being a nobleman. Then you add Jowy infiltrating the Highland army, marrying into power and taking over the army from within...that's really well written politics with multiple layers.

And I'd say Suikoden as a series has even more backstabbing actually.

>>134094810
>So every person who points out your broken argument is the same person?

Yes.

Dude, this is pathetic. I can tell it's you. It's your same singularly strawman-attacking nonsense every time. I know >>134092924 is not you, but I'm not replying to him here. He simply didn't read the original post where I had already mentioned Tinto. Considering the first person who brought up the Tinto example was me, I'm not sure why you believe I'm ignoring it.

Here's a simple one: can you actually bring up one of these "broken arguments" you say I'm making and refute it with an actual example from the game? Not a vague allusion to someone doing some manner of action. I mean an actual mention of an actual scene in the actual game.

Just one. Go on, prove me wrong. If you think I'll just ignore it, then at least you'll make me look like a moron before others. Just one. One real example.

Also, what do you want me to source that I haven't already? I'm perfectly willing to do it. Just ask.

>>134094308
FFT wasn't exactly unique on release, Squaresoft basically acquired Quest and told the team to remake Tactics Ogre with FF mythos slapped on it. Even back then people argued that TO had a better plot considering it had 3 routes that drastically changed a lot of outcomes and still managed to make a coherent story

That said, FFT has the nostalgia goggles, gameplay that hasn't stagnated, and a fanbase that felt it to be the underdog compared to FF7

>>134094847
True, but even then brute force, good mobility, and someone who can heal/raise is enough.

I OHKO'd Belias with this ethos. 2H Ultima.

>>134094870
>>those Agrias doujins done in the same artstyle as the game
You have good taste man, good taste.

>>134095145

>So every person who points out your broken argument is the same person?
>Dude, this is pathetic. I can tell it's you.

Add a tripcode so I can ignore you please.

>>134095031
>For example, the events in Highland causing Jowy to want to rebel against his homeland is already a better political motivation than in FFTactics

Jowy and Riou jump ship because Luca slaughtered their junior brigade to have an excuse to go to war with the City States. That was pretty much it. It's hardly different from the stuff you see in FFT like Vormav playing both Lars and Goltana against each other, Dycedarg playing Lars to take his place or Delita playing just about everyone.

I think you're suffering from sever tunnel vision if you think that one sequence was that special.

Daily reminder that Delita did nothing wrong.

>>134094718
Just play the hard mode patch, it'll make you its bitch no problem.

>>134095285
I'm not hearing those arguments being refuted, OR any of the things you're saying I didn't source.

>>134095346
Good. Gives me a reason to not just fist everything in the early-mid game.

>>134095031
>everyone hates you simply for being a nobleman
That's a first chapter point that's barely significant, since Ramza isn't a major player in the political interactions. He was a cadet who became a sellsword after the first chapter. However, what you described parallels Delita rather neatly.

>>134095336

>Jowy and Riou jump ship because Luca slaughtered their junior brigade to have an excuse to go to war with the City States.
That was what forced them to leave. But Jowy had many more things motivating him. His family hated him because he was a bastard child. He fell in love with Jilia Blight at an early age, but felt like he needed to be part of society to get close to her. And finally he wanted power.

There's a lot more to his story besides just revenge towards Luca. You can argue that there's also multiple layers behind Ramza's story. But many of the things are not based on choices he made, but things that happened to him. His friend betrays him, people target him for being nobility, etc. It just doesn't seem as powerful when you're a victim. Which is the argument you're trying to make against Jowy by only focusing on the opening scene of the game.

>I think you're suffering from sever tunnel vision if you think that one sequence was that special.
I think you're suffering from tunnel vision since you're only focusing on that one sequence. While I'm providing examples of a characters motivation over 20 hours.

>>134095336
His description of Jowy can almost be substituted for a description of Delita--neither are the main play characters either. He's either being ironic or forgot FFT.

>>134095031
>Then you add Jowy infiltrating the Highland army, marrying into power and taking over the army from within...that's really well written politics with multiple layers.

You just described Delita, except Delita actually gets a few more scenes showing how he slowly twists everyone around him. Are you sure you've played these games?

>>134095784

Delita doesn't really get more scenes than Jowy. You see a pretty equal amount of scenes showing how both of them manipulate people. Jowy leads an attack against Riou in order to gain the trust of Luca. Jowy backstabs one of the other generals to take his position. There's at least 4-5 scenes showing Jowy's rise to power just like Delita. It pretty much comes down to opinion of which one you like more.

Daily reminder that Vyce did nothing wrong

>>134095704
>But many of the things are

No, stop.

This makes no sense. It sounds as if you're taking one thing in Suikoden, building it up, then pretty much the same or at least equiparable thing in FFT, and then downplaying it.

You know all that stuff you mentioned from Jowy? In the game, it's just one tiny sequence. The part where he "fell in love with Jilia Blight at an early age, but felt like he needed to be part of society to get close to her"? That's one part of that tiny sequence where he climbs up a wall to peek on her. I'm not saying it's invalid, but you seem to be REALLY overhyping these things.

Ramza is only reactive in Chapter 1. You know, the prologue. He choses to leave his family and is on his own for the rest of the game after stabbing Gafgarion in the dick.

Delita, on the other hand, is exactly the thing you're describing, but inexplicably ignoring. He's a guy who got fucked over, got the whole point hammered in in "The Meager" and then backstabbed his was into beinga king (and getting frontstabbed).

Also like two quarters of the stuff you're bringing up is Jowy working back FOR his homeland. You're not going to sell me that he was half-assing it when he invited fucking Leon Silverberg and his merry band of demon friends to help him fight.

>>134095944
Comparing Ramza to Jowy was a mistake though. Comparing Ramza to Riou is a different story.

>>134096085

I may have overlooked the comparison to Delita. But you're kind of ignoring parts of my argument to defend Tactics as well. Why is Delita's development over the whole game a good example of development, but you keep singling out parts of Jowy's development as a 'small thing' and 'not that big'. If I used your own argument against you, I could say Delita's development didn't matter by just isolating each part and not looking at how it connected to later events.

In other words, you can't keep saying Delita and Jowy are the same, yet Jowy's parts were weaker and isolated. You can't have it both ways.

>>134095704
>His family hated him because he was a bastard child. He fell in love with Jilia Blight at an early age, but felt like he needed to be part of society to get close to her. And finally he wanted power.

These are reasons WHY HE GOES BACK. He wanted power and those things back.

You said
>the events in Highland causing Jowy to want to rebel against his homeland

That's the Unicorn Brigade slaughter, period. It's the only reason he leaves. It wasn't even reason enough for him to leave for good. Then he backstabs his friends and goes back to those guys because he has no faith in the City States and wants to work for within, eventually fighting for real in Highland's (by then, his own) sake until the Dunan army pushes his shit in enough that he realizes they're going to lose and switches back to self-sabotage.

>>134095964
Vyce literally switches personalitites between routes, he's either turbo douchebag or a nagging mom.

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>>134086287
>If you're playing Suikoden V for the story or characters, its pretty much a let down.

The hell you on about. V had some of the strongest central characters in the whole series

>Lyon is also one of the most annoying characters in the series.

Oh never mind you're a moron

>>134096372

He doesn't go back. He infiltrates the army under an assumed alias and tries to take over the army. He is fighting against Highland by trying to take it over from within. He makes this clear in both his speech with his wife (Jillia) where he admits to being a spy who is trying to kill Luca and again in the ending where he tells all these things to Riou.

If I don't understand everything about FFTactics, you seem to have misunderstood large portions of Suikoden II.

>>134096537

Stop trying to revive that stupid debate fag.

>>134096263
>But you're kind of ignoring parts of my argument to defend Tactics as well

Like what?

>Why is Delita's development over the whole game a good example of development, but you keep singling out parts of Jowy's development as a 'small thing' and 'not that big'.

Dude, this was you:

>I've seen plenty of things with much better politics. From Suikoden to Utawarerumono.
>By better politics I mean the politics are more of a factor to the overall story and better written. For example, the events in Highland causing Jowy to want to rebel against his homeland is already a better political motivation than in FFTactics. Where everyone hates you simply for being a nobleman. Then you add Jowy infiltrating the Highland army, marrying into power and taking over the army from within...that's really well written politics with multiple layers.
> But many of the things are not based on choices he made, but things that happened to him. His friend betrays him, people target him for being nobility, etc. It just doesn't seem as powerful when you're a victim.

YOU are the one hyping these things UP and then downplaying FFT's elements at the same time. I'm telling you to chill and get some damn perspective.

And in answer to your question: because at least Delita has several scenes with Ovelia prior to the marriage, and the entire backstory that leads tom him setting out on his path is a PLAYABLE full quarter of the game as opposed to two tiny flashback scenes. Yes, I'm pretty confident with rating scenes of him gaining her trust, leading her own and her eventually discovering his real character, over one short clip of him looking at her over a wall and then one more scene of them saying goodbye when their castle's about to fall.

Come the fuck on.

>>134095164
It makes me a little sad that nobody really cares about Ogre Battle and we'll probably not see another game outside of maybe a remake/rerelease.

>>134094870
any suggestions?
i'm skimming through sadpanda and only seeing generics

>>134096588
>to take over the army

Which he then leads competently and, initially, towards victory.

Jowy flip-flops. He wanted to kill Luca from the start, but he thought Highwland was posed to be the victor on the war and that working from that side would lead to the swiftest end. That's why he sabotages the peace talks and enlists motherfucking DEMONS to help him, he wasn't half assing it. He flips again when the Dunan army manages to fight back against all the shit he threw at them, at which point he realizes Highland will be the one absorbed rather than the other way around.

In case you don't remember, the only reason Riou wasn't assassinated in the peace talks was because Shu brought Jowy's loli around to make him choke up and hesitate. That was not self-sabotage, that was an attempt to get the upper hand that he completely fucked up.

>>134096871
Bakuhatsu.

It's mostly vanilla stuff.

>>134096694

My points changed over time. I even admitted that Delita is a better comparison to Jowy and they share many things.

Instead of going on with the argument, you keep choosing to bring up points I made a dozen posts ago and ignoring when I actually agreed with you. While also ignoring your own examples of doing the same things you accuse me of doing.

I'll wait for you to cool down and catch up to what's actually being discussed. Instead of trying to go back to the beginning of the argument and flipping out about the same stuff all over again.

>>134096629
That was the first new poster in hours. Get your samefag checker fixed.

>>134096925

Yes Jowy does flip flop. But being indecisive and having a moral struggle also shows his character and development.

So what does all of this have to do with the point? What even is the point anymore? I thought we were making progress when we pointed out that Delita and Jowy were similar. Now you just seem to be working as hard as you can to make me admit that Suikoden II is weaker for...pride or something? I'm not going to say Suikoden II is a weaker story to FFTactics.

>>134096974
>I made a dozen posts ago

Let me just give you an example: you downplayed Ramza like so
>> But many of the things are not based on choices he made, but things that happened to him. His friend betrays him, people target him for being nobility, etc. It just doesn't seem as powerful when you're a victim.
Here: >>134095704

I replied to that here: >>134096085
You replied to that here: >>134096263
And I then posted >>134096694

You made that claim ONE post ago from my last.

>>134096986

Did he claim otherwise? He just told him to not revive the debate. Which I agree with. We already had half the thread ruined by a stupid Suikoden V argument.

>>134097088
>Yes Jowy does flip flop. But being indecisive and having a moral struggle also shows his character and development.

Dude, that wasn't an attack on the character. It was simply a statement of his actions. You need to relax and stop being so defensive, you don't need to obsessively explain how every single thing that happens in the game is actually good and well-written, especially when nobody implied it wasn't.

>So what does all of this have to do with the point?

The point being that you made a big deal about the reasons that push him to leave Highland and went on a rant about how many of his background scenes contributed to that, when it really only was the Unicorn Brigade slaughter that prompted that.

He didn't betray Highland for real until it decisively looked like they were losing. He betrayed Luca, but he was working for Highland for real for a long while.

>>134097352

>You need to relax and stop being so defensive, you don't need to obsessively explain how every single thing that happens in the game
I've only been doing that because you have been...? I'm just responding to your counter points. Which have been long explanations about the plot. I'm being defensive because I am on the defense. Supporting my points.

>The point being that you made a big deal about the reasons that push him to leave Highland and went on a rant about how many of his background scenes contributed to that
My point from the very beginning was how the politics in the game were well written. And I made an example of Jowy. Using examples over the entire game, not just the unicorn brigate slaughter. It is you who is focused on the unicorn brigade. Seemingly because you didn't understand my original post.

Which by the way, I also explained that there was at least three separate things motivating him to leave before the unicorn brigade even happened. Why are you ignoring those parts?

>>134094751
>PlayOnline

They never explained the card game mechanics like they claimed.

>>134097088
>Now you just seem to be working as hard as you can to make me admit that Suikoden II is weaker for...pride or something? I'm not going to say Suikoden II is a weaker story to FFTactics.

Let me get this straight, you started this whole thing by trashing FFT and claiming Suikoden was better using faulty arguments, and now you get all prissy defensive that people argued back? What "pride"? You said things that were based on wrong facts and had them pointed out to you.

>>134096810
Ogre Battle itself really needs a gameplay overhaul, which is probably why they went grid based in every other game. The whole thing played like a 4x game but the only option was to kill the empire by hoping the RNG gods favored you as much as the Zenobian ones. Peasants in that game were retardedly fickle on every point - if you fight a mob that's slightly above you you die, if you fight a mob you're slightly above level to the people hate you for being a bully, even when the mission is to overthrow the unpopular, tyrannical lord of the area. 10 different endings and the one that makes the most sense is going evil and having armies of liches curb stomp the empire. Reputation be damned, if they want to complain tell it to the undead army

>>134097914

And I admitted a long time ago that Jowy is a better comparison to Delita. But instead of recognizing that, you just tried to throw the argument back to the beginning and yell at me for being wrong.

From my perspective, you just want me to say I'm wrong or that Suikoden II isn't as good as FFTactics. That's the only logical assumption I can make given the way you keep reverting the subject back and ignoring progress.

Guys, stop. Both games have okay characters.

>>134097723
>My point from the very beginning was how the politics in the game were well written

I thought your point was that the reasons Jowy left Highland were a better written plot thread that whatever prompted [Ramza I guess] to do his shit because he only did things because everyone hated him for being a nobleman.

Or at least that's what I gathered from:

>By better politics I mean the politics are more of a factor to the overall story and better written. For example, the events in Highland causing Jowy to want to rebel against his homeland is already a better political motivation than in FFTactics. Where everyone hates you simply for being a nobleman.

Out of that we got that:
-The statement about Ramza is complete nonsense.
-Jowy's reasons for leaving Highland were pretty simple. It was the reason for going back that get a bit more complex.
-There's a main character in FFT with an exceedingly similar progression.

You can switch arguments on the fly if you want, but you're kind of forgetting to tell people that.

>>134097947
Ogre Battle 64 was a lot less severe in those aspects. Though I'm not disagreeing with you that it would need some updating. I enjoyed the universe and liked the squad-construction and map movement format. Given how so many of the people behind it are either scattered or no longer inactive, I'm not going to bother getting my hopes up.

>>134098156

>Out of that we got that:
>-Jowy's reasons for leaving Highland were pretty simple. It was the reason for going back that get a bit more complex.

No, that is still a point that you are hanging onto. Not something I agree with. I've already said multiple times that there was at least three reasons for why Jowy wanted to leave before the Unicorn Brigade even happened. You just passed it off because you didn't agree and keep focusing on only the unicorn brigade incident.

Beyond that, we also have tons of other points that keep getting thrown around. Because of a misunderstanding about what point we are actually talking about. Mostly that from the beginning I was comparing the entire progression of Jowy in Suikoden II, but you are focusing on just the initial event of the Unicoren Brigade.

You're doing just as much switching of arguments if not more.

>>134098119
>From my perspective, you just want me to say I'm wrong or that Suikoden II isn't as good as FFTactics.

And the reason seem to be that you're a bit too much of a fanboy. You already admitted you're defensive, what else can I say? You began this argument by saying Suikoden II was better than FFT. People pointed out the arguments you used to back that up were wrong. And now you're getting all twitchy over people talking back. Don't start My Game is Better than Your Game shitfights if you're so sensitive that you end up acting all defensive when someone disagrees.

And yeah, by the way, I do think FFT's story is stronger. But that's my opinion. It was the provably wrong arguments I was countering. Maybe don't get into these tussles if you can't distinguish "That thing you said doesn't mesh with what's actually in the game" from someone attacking you and trying to get you to renounce your relig-I mean, getting you to admit one game is better than the other. As if there'd be any point to that.

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Best boy.

>>134081132
You don't need to grind to brute force FFT, it's one of the easiest SRPGs, specially from Matsuno.

>>134097905
Tetra Master was, pretty clearly I'd say, as much of an impenetrable mystery to its creators as it was to the players.

>>134098356
>I've already said multiple times that there was at least three reasons for why Jowy wanted to leave before the Unicorn Brigade even happened.

Why was his crush on Jillia making him want to leave? And, for that matter, if his crush made him want to leave, the desire to legitimize himself in front of his family made him want to leave, and the killing of the brigade made him want to leave, what made him want to go back and fight legit for Highland?

Two of those aren't the reasons he left, they're the reasons he went back.

>>134098441

>And yeah, by the way, I do think FFT's story is stronger.
That's fine. What's not fine is you claiming your opinion is better than someone else by calling them a fanboy, then claiming he's the one being offensive. You just sound like an angry fanboy yourself.

>>134098557
Oh hey look, it's City Liberation Duty Bitchboy Who Never Gets Used for Fighting.

At least in the original.

>Vanilla Agrias x Ramza doujins

Y E S
E
S

>the one where she's training to be a mime and has to copy everything she sees but Ramza knows she's just faking it as an excuse to have sex

Y E S
E
S

>>134098624
>never gets used in the original
>give him a bow
>???
>flying death

>>134098708
No, it was really the Mime skill making her do that. Ramza is the one who took advantage of it to fugg her.

>>134098580

Its pointless to keep arguing about this as I've already said he didn't return to fight for Highland. He joined the Highland army under a fake ailas to try and overthrow Highland from within. As well as a secondary effect of gaining the notoriety necessary to get with Jillia Blight.

Which by the way, Luca Blight found out about his fake identity. But decided to keep him around because he was doing better than his other generals. Not that this has anything specific to do with the point. Just a funny side note that while Jowy was trying to use Luca, Luca was using him.

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Ravness a cute.

I've always like the Valkyrie class thematically, even if they've always been sort of middling.

>>134098747
Pointless. A flying high-ALI unit that early is much more useful doing liberation. Fighting's best left to low-ALI fast and strong units Canopus and his Wyrms until you can assemble the usual Two Mage/Sorcerer/Lich unit, after which you can kinda stop paying attention.

I don't want to be a part of the debate going on in this thread. But I enjoyed the story of Suikoden II more than Final Fantasy Tactics simply because the characters and setting was more interesting to me. Don't really have a huge list of ways the story was better. Suikoden II just caught my attention more.

>>134080823
>not going chaos for the Phoraena sisters and Cressida.
I laugh at you. The true catch of the law route is Ozma.

>>134098918
I don't think anyone is arguing S2 vs FFT. S2 is way more grassroots and has fun little conversations for the bulk of your recruits, so you're more personally involved. Multiple endings as well to scratch your itch.

FFT was more mechanically fun for me to play, setting up class/gear combos, but S2 is more endearing as an experience.

>>134098832
Do you think the game ended with Luca's death or what? Why do you think he tried to have Riou assassinated MULTIPLE TIMES and sabotaged his bid at a peace treaty?

You're confusing killing Luca with betraying Highland. He wasn't loyal to Luca, but he's constantly banging about how Riou should give up because he firmly believes Highland will be the victor.

Again, how were his crush on Jillia and his desire for legitimacy things that made him leave rather than the things that made him go back?

>>134098624
He's flying death in the remake.

>>134098849
Valks are horseshit in the postgame due to how they work with summons and there's much worse things to be than a Boonbot during the main game.

>>134098978
Chaos gets me the other half of the powerpuffs and DFC nekomancer, Law gets me everything else.

>>134098849
Valk in TO remake ends up being one of the most necessary units after getting the pirate. Affinity touching units is one of the only ways to actually give your army an edge during random battles thanks to how retardedly large and powerful they get.

Why the designers thought it was a good idea to have everyone have the same level in class but have personal levels for weapon and magic proficiencies is beyond comprehension

>>134099055
>>134098918

>play Suikoden II as a child
>JOWY AND ME ARE BEST FRIENDS FOREVER
>betrays me
>I'LL NEVER LET ANYONE HURT ME AGAIN
>play FFT
>Delita tries to chum up to me
>NO NOT THIS TIME
>we play grass whistles
>his sister is nice
>he understands Algus is just being a dick and it's not me
>Okay, okay
>Delita betrays me
>I WILL BURN THE COUNTRYSIDE AND SALT THE EARTH

>>134099255
Because they expect you to grind.

>>134099314
Yes anon, let the hate flow through you.

>>134099055

>Do you think the game ended with Luca's death or what?
No.

>You're confusing killing Luca with betraying Highland.
No I'm not. I can only assume you don't understand my points based on all this assuming you're doing.

>Again, how were his crush on Jillia and his desire for legitimacy things that made him leave rather than the things that made him go back?
Jowy originally joined the army to try and gain recognition. So he could both please his family, but also to get noticed by Jillia.

When the Unicorn Brigade incident happened, he was branded a traitor. So all he was building himself up for became nothing. At that point, HE thinks that he has no chance to be with Jillia or return to Highland.

A few hours later, when they are set up to infiltrate the Highland army to gain intelligence, Jowy decides to stay. Choosing a path in the Highland army under a new name rather than living as a rebel. In other words, he tries to get back to the life he had before.

In this way, his crush on Jillia and being tossed aside by his family did make him leave. They also made him want to return. But unlike what you keep saying, he didn't return with honorable intentions to save Highland or fight for them. He returned for purely personal reasons. And always had in the back of his mind that he would kill Luca and take over if he needed to. Which you have pointed out before, but overlooking the other points leading up to it.

>>134099471
I don't think he gave a fuck about Jillia or pleasing his family. He joined to be with Riou and then later the Pilika shit was the tipping point.

>>134099556

Its pretty evident that he has some major daddy issues. Not gonna go into all the stuff he says over the game. Just that he was always looked down upon being a bastard child, yet expected to be a good highland citizen and always do what his dad said.

When it comes to Jillia, there are multiple scenes of him fawning over her. Once when he was an 8 year old boy and another when he's looking at her over the fence. And yet again when they're being taken away as prisoners, Jillia stops them and asks 'how can such young boys be traitors' which Jowy actually tells her he is not a traitor.

Blah blah, Jowy hates his dad and has a hard on for Jillia.

>>134099471
>So he could both please his family, but also to get noticed by Jillia.

You're really making him out to be a far more obsessed with Jillia than he comes of as. The game never gave any hints of this being a long-term ambition for him, just something he wanted as a child and took the chance to go for when the opportunity presented itself.

>In this way, his crush on Jillia and being tossed aside by his family did make him leave.

WHAT?

This makes no fucking sense. You seem to be twisting things into the most convoluted mental gymnastics imaginable just to cling to your original claim. How the fuck did his crush and his family thing made him leave? It wasn't his crush and his family that pushed him away, it was the motherfuckers with pointy things and orders to put those pointy things inside him.

You just made an Olympic fucking leap of reasoning there. Look:

-Jowy has Goals.
-Event makes Goals seem unattainable and his life is put in peril.
-He flees from Event.
-Goals are, in a way, the ones that push him away.

You see that fourth one there? That shit's a monument to non sequitur.

>In other words, he tries to get back to the life he had before.

Yes. in other words, his goals were what made him go back.

It was the guys out to kill him that made him leave. Not the things he wanted. He maybe was sad about losing his bid for the things he wanted, but you're acting as if that sadness were what made him leave rather than the sadness being a byproduct of leaving.

>He returned for purely personal reasons. And always had in the back of his mind that he would kill Luca and take over if he needed to.

Which is what I fucking said.

Seriously, are you really just pulling this goddamn Dhalsim Magic Yoga performance solely to not admit you said something that was actually backwards?

Jowy just a shit that joined the army with his best friend, realized how low-test he was when Luca swung his big Highlander Benis around and bullied everyone, and then knew he couldn't go natted and had to cycle Black Sword Rune for big gains. Then he fucked Jillia and protected the loli like he wanted to, but he was too deep on that Black Rune cycling to stop juicing.

ezpz

>>134099340
You mean the opposite. Matsuno is known to hate people that overgrind and puts things to punish anyone trying to make some sort of overleveled advantage, hence the whole zodiac weapons in ff12 bugaloo.

TO original had 100 lvl tower, and even had a promotion for anyone that did it twice to send a picture of receiving the crest to get a T shirt from Atlus for being that masochistic.

TO remake has you poaching 3 dragons of each type to transform into dragon eggs to sell back to merchants to unlock Deneb's shop to fight rare mobs in 100 level dungeon to hope they drop 20 glass pumpkins to finally get Deneb.

Then it adds pirates graveyard to get pirate Diego, without telling the player that after you finish graveyard, every random mob forevermore on this save file will be 2 levels away from your fielded army's average level, not calculating their proficiencies.

And Crissida? The 'don't kill enemy Galgostanis or they'll hate you based on an unseen score which can only be raised if they're part of your army and you get them killed by the enemies' necromancer of chaos route?

TO punishes you for trying to be ADD and get everything in the game. If you grind you have to know what's worth grinding (aka not class levels but proficiency levels and crafting gear) and to curbstomp the enemy so absolutely that you can one shot the boss and not accidentally kill the galgostani trash mob, or pray the random battle doesn't have those kinds of people on the field

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>>134099999
>99999

God damn it, /fit/, get the fuck out of here.

>>134099917

>WHAT?
The events were making his ambitions impossible. So he left. Then he is put into a situation where he can resume his ambitions and takes it.

You're confirming the last part, but ignoring his motivational change leading up to it. He didn't willingly leave. He did it because he felt like his life was crumbling and he has no other option. And no longer being able to be in the army and impress Jillia was a part of his motivation he lost.

>>134100050
Thread ruined.

>>134099733
>When it comes to Jillia, there are multiple scenes of him fawning over her.

Dude, it's literally one scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxpmxA3XQwY

You gotta stop trying to inflate this. This is literally the entirety of space the game dedicates to the stuff you're going on about. That one scene of him jumping over the wall is it.

>Jillia stops them and asks 'how can such young boys be traitors' which Jowy actually tells her he is not a traitor.

That's him fawning over her?

>>134099999
Alas, I came here to check these.

>>134100331
>>134100262
Where that pic with both Agias and Saber fighting each other and protecting Ramza and Shirou.

>>134100444

There are more scenes then just the one you're focusing on. You're not even mentioning the time he walks in on her in the Highland camp. Then again when they dance together as husband and wife.

>b-but I only meant for a short span at the beginning of the game!

And I wasn't limiting myself to just that.

>>134100139
>The events were making his ambitions impossible. So he left.

No, he left because THEY WERE GOING TO KILL HIM.

You're acting as if the impossibility of achieving his goals due to the people trying to murder him were in some way a significant contributing factor to him fleeing from the people trying to kill him.

>He didn't willingly leave. He did it because he felt like his life was crumbling and he has no other option.

No, he left because they were going to get murdered. His life crumbling was a result of this, not the motivation. It's in no way fucking comparable, unless you're saying that if his goals hadn't been there in the first place, he would have thought otherwise about running away from the people that were trying to skin him alive.

Let me boil it down: you tried to overinflate the complexity him fleeing from butchers for some inane "my game's better" argument while using elements of his character that actually prompted him to go back to those butchers. And rather than say "Ok, yeah, I was wrong. The fleeing part was straightforward, it's the return that had emotional baggage involved in it", you just did this mental contortion spectacle because... you know what, I don't even care anymore. You're just crazy.

>>134100677
>And I wasn't limiting myself to just that.

Except the conversation was about what motivated him to join the army. So yes, you kinda have to limit yourself to the stuff that came before that.

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>>134100658
Literally 3 seconds to look up on booru.