In your opinion, was Sakura worth it?

Her existence is flawed.

Hell no. But Ilya was.

lame thread when will people stop asking retarded questions that have already been asked thousands of times

>>133983750
Never. Was your shitpost worth it?

No. God no.

>>133984116
not a shitpost, these threads are lame and so are you for defending pointless bullshit

>>133983271
No. Rin or Saber would have been worth it, but he couldn't do shit for Saber and Rin can save herself.

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>>133985285
>Rin can save herself

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>>133983271
No. She wasn't worth how was sacrificed. Not worth that flawed but beautiful ideal. Not worth the betrayal and death of Saber. Not worth the loss of Ilya.

She wasn't even the fucking heroine. Ilya was. She was the love interest and villain!

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Discard slut, acquire pure imouto.

There's literally nothing I like about her, so in my opinion, no.

>>133987145

Illya dies in other routes too

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I'll switch her out

>>133983271
W O R M S
O
R
M
S

>>133987422
She gets to live a happy year in Fate.
She dies in UBW.
She sacrifices herself in HF.

I think it's safer to say Ilya dies in all routes because of the Einzbern are too fucking lazy to make a sustainable Homunculus

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>>133983271
Hell the fuck no, she ruined the route and she is shit.

worth more than rin less than saber
Illya, Bazett, Luvia, maids, etc are all better

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>>133988284
>worth more than rin

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>>133988369
Rin is priceless.

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There's something about that smile I want to protect. Maybe it's how semen hungry it is. Who knows?

>>133987145
His ideal betrayed Saber.

Did you play HF? Shirou felt guilty, because his bullshit got Saber killed.

>>133988464
Old men tend to disagree.

>>133987145
>Illya
>heroine

Is this the same girl who knew everything and could have avoided it but never told Sakura, Shirou and Rin and let people die because she could?

Her death was atonement because she knew it all and she sat on the sidelines until Sakura and Shirou were too fucked to change things.

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>>133988553

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>>133988553

>>133988553

Burn.

>>133988546
If you're talking about at the Temple, that was more Saber's overconfidence. If you're talking in the caverns, there was no ideal left in Shirou at that point.

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>>133983271
Which choice /a/?

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>>133988553

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>>133989737

So basically HF is the route for adults?

>>133989868
It's the route for babies who think rape and gore is synonymous with maturity.

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>>133989868
Its the route with the most Ilya, so its the best.

>>133989868
HF is the route for grownups who realize that it's protecting humans that's the most important.

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>>133988553

>>133989894
That's Zero

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>>133988553
Holy shit

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>>133983271
Yes, definitely.

>>133989962
But you protect the least amount of people in HF. Hell, you let countless people die for some pussy.

>>133983271
>Sakura over Saber or Rin
Fuck no.

>>133983271
Anything is worth the chance to be around Rider more.

Newfag to Fate here. Should I leave the H scenes on? I've heard they're shit, but that some of them are important to the story.

>>133991194
Yeah, play it uncensored. The censored scenes are worse overall.

>>133991194
Leave them on, they're hilarious.

>>133991194
>should I wilfully remove content
What do you think?

Fuck no

>>133991194
No, The final route in particular has some retarded bullshit about rape making one impure no matter how chaste one is otherwise in the original version, which is thankfully removed in RN.

>>133991194
Fate and UBW make little difference with/without H-scenes (I say leave em on anyways just cause it's the original), but HF suffers heavily without them.

>>133989033
Yes, I was talking about the temple. Shirou didn't ditch his ideal because of Sakura only, he ditched his ideal when he saw real people affected negatively by it. Real people he cared about more than random faceless masses.

The ideal made Illya miserable, his father was scum and not a hero as he thought, that shit so early in the war only cracked him. Losing Saber because OF HIS insistence of randomly patrolling rather than fight for the Grail and he knew it destroyed him and he went to sleep thinking he and his ideal betrayed Saber.

Sakura came as the last straw that broke the camel's back, but it had built it for him to say "fuck this shit".

>>133992435
That is one of the interesting things about Shirou's character and his ideal. Everything is still in flux with him during the war. Sure, he wants to be a hero from the very beginning, but it takes the events that proceed to either have that want solidify, or be abandoned.

>>133983271
garbage thread, OP

try coming up with something more interesting to talk about related to this series if you are this desperate for discussion

>>133992435
Been awhile since I read HF. Was it really so bad to be patrolling at night? I thought that was a fairly reasonable course of action for Shirou. Much better than continuing to go to school. Minus not allying with Rin right away Shirou's actions were fine. It wasn't his ideals fault that Saber got wrecked by the Shadow, had he activated his command spell a bit earlier sure he would have saved her but still. Did Shirou really go to bed blaming his ideal for her death?

>>133992731
Exactly. It's like people forget he had doubts in UBW before he got circumstances that made him chose the path he did, among him, the presence of Saber.

Saber plays a huge role to consolidate his idea. Losing Saber because of his ideal is "betrayal" to Shirou. He even says that when he sees her in the dojo that he can only keep his path as long as he remembers her. The only route he follows his path to the end without foreshadowing eventually ditching to settle down with Rin, getting bitter, or ditching it early on is Fate for a fucking good reason. HF kills Saber for another good reason. Saber is connected 100% with his ideals. She's the fucking king of ideals with a sword that is the crystalization of ideals that he never sees in HF except in evil despairing version.

>>133993129
Saber didn't want to go to the temple, she only did because Shirou wanted to patrol. She wanted to fight in the Grail War. Shirou knew he got her killed and dragged her to a conflict that she didn't choose.

He never got to deal with this in UBW. He came from learning the same ideal and father he idealized was a fucking lie without any reassurance at the beginning.

You should play the VN again. Saber is essential to Shirou's ideals. She's kind of a symbol. That's why HF Shirou has to face her in the end. That's why even in UBW, Archer persists to save her.

Losing Saber, with a Saber tainted, with a sword of ideals TAINTED, it's all symbolic.

>>133993129
There are two people that make Shirou's ideals:

One is Kiritsugu and the other one is Saber. When Kiritsugu falls like a broken idol and Saber is taken and tainted as a consequence of the ideal that Shirou pursued, then Shirou has absolutely nothing to latch on.

He doesn't follow his ideal because it's noble, he follows his ideal because it makes him happy. When following his ideal makes him lose Saber like that, when he sees it made Illya miserable, when he knows it'll destroy the people around him, he simply ditches it: it's a crutch for his emptiness. He pursues his happiness in another way: which is keeping the people he loves safe first. This is also in UBW.

Shirou was willing to let Caster win and slave all town as long as he saves Fuji nee. No fucks given. Between the 'justice' and the people he loves, his first instinct is choosing the people he loves, even in UBW. Way before he fights Archer, it's not like that's natural to him. In Fate, he would also choose Saber over random people in Fuyuki. His wants to take her and run, leaving Kotomine and Gilgamesh on their own because he doesn't want to lose her.

I think most fans forgot this shit about Shirou. Sakura wasn't the only time he did that. It was the time Nasu focused on him sticking his guns when this came up.

>>133989737
1 because fuck Sakura and Illya isn't for raping.

>>133993524
>The only route he follows his path to the end without foreshadowing eventually ditching to settle down with Rin

Okay I think you severely misunderstand UBW's ending. Shirou is not going to "settle down". He will follow his ideal to the end, but with Rin supporting him along the way.

The addition of the anime ending should make this ridiculously clear. It shows Shirou conflicted with the idea of choosing a path of aligning himself with the Clocktower, or following his dream.

He chooses his dream.

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>>133983271
Worth wasting my time reading through Fate and UBW? Probably not, but at least HF was kinda good and Sakura had the funniest sex scenes.

>>133993129

Saber wanted to fight Servants. Shirou wanted to patrol and go back to the temple because muh ideals. Saber sighed and indulged him. She got killed. He is shaken for what happened. Because he feels that because of his ideal, he lost his ally, he betrayed her trust, and led her astray.

You have to remind yourself he's not clutching this ideal because oh it's so beautiful, that's just bullshit he tells himself to pretend he's noble. He's just doing it because he wants to make people happy to make himself happy in turn and this made him miserable.

HF presents his ideal as nothing more than delusion that he cling on when he's a man as hollow as Kirei. The whole 'heroic' twist of UBW is gone, because Kotomine becomes his full foil. It explores him not as a 'tragic' person, but as fundamentally broken and hollow man who must find the pieces of his lost humanity.

This doesn't take away UBW resolution, but HF explores a different angle and themes. It's an ugly reality and he's forced to stop dressing it up.

>>133993679
>Shirou was willing to let Caster win and slave all town as long as he saves Fuji nee. No fucks given

It should be noted that this happens before the Archer fight, at a point in Shirou's development where he's still unclear about his resolve for his ideal.

During the Archer fight he's presented with countless scenarios where people all around him die, and he comes out of that fully accepting that reality.

Day 11 Shirou is fundamentally different from day 15 Shirou.

>>133994140
>Okay I think you severely misunderstand UBW's ending. Shirou is not going to "settle down"

He is. At least in the UBW ending partying words and the script of the epilogue with what we know of the episode. He will return to Rin and settle down.

Only Saber can push him to complete heroism to the dying breath which has a bad end (Archer) or a good end (Shirou in Fate). Rin exists to keep him from going down fully on that road.

>>133994252
>Between the 'justice' and the people he loves, his first instinct is choosing the people he loves, even in UBW. Way before he fights Archer, it's not like that's natural to him

>>133994303
I believe you and I have had this conversation before.

No, nothing in the script indicates that Shirou will "settle down". Rin will travel with him for a while, and /she/ says she will eventually settle down, but Shirou won't.

In fact, Shirou openly talks about how he knows he's on the same path as Archer, and will likely meet the same end. Rin's answer to that is to say for him to go farther. We know he does.

Rin and Shirou do get a happily ever after, this is not a scenario where Shirou "gets his fill" and eventually retires, he will follow his path until the end. If that end is at 33, or 93, it's left in the open.

>>133994385
While Rin and Shirou do get a happily ever after*

>>133994385
Did I? It's the first time brought this up. Rin says he'll go as far as Archer, once he reaches that ending, he'll get his happy ending with her. That implicit in the last scene when he reaches Archer's mark.

This isn't anything bad, it's obvious Rin would keep him from self destructing himself and give him a piece of normal life to return to. Archer didn't have this. Shirou in Fate was able to burn himself down to the last breath because he had Saber in Eternal Avalon to anchor him and get him a happy ending and reward.

>>133994494
Nothing in the ending at all indicates that Shirou plans to stop. I mean the entire post-credits scene that Nasu wrote is about how he is supposed to continue on beyond Archer.

There is not "stopping" for UBW Shirou. He has no regrets, this is his only path, and he accepts it. I mean that's what the whole denying the Clock Tower plot was about. Here he was presented with a cushy opportunity attaching himself to the Tower, but it wasn't what he needed for his dream.

Rin will do her best to make him happy, but she's not going to stop him. I mean look at her reaction when she was told he didn't accept joining. She already knew his answer long before he made it.

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>>133994634
>Wasteland scene
>"After the ED. Same scene as the initial wasteland.
>Shirou walks alone. Exhausted, his steps slow to a halt.
>Shirou, lowering his eyes in the face of a sandstorm, notices someone's footprints (the place where Archer stopped walking).
>Shirou takes a breath, and raises his head. His face is one of pretended resolve, but also full of hope.
>Shirou resumes walking in that direction, with a firm gait.
>The camera stops at Archer's trail, and the scene ends on Shirou's back, shrinking in the distance.
>(To make this easier to understand, after Shirou leaves, you can also insert Archer watching Shirou that appeared by the footprints... but I think it'd be best if you didn't)"

>He's not wandering around aimlessly, but rather heading towards a distant point.

This is one scene I really wish could have been expanded. Nasu's script for episode 25 was pretty fucking massive, but just taking 30 more seconds to hammer this in would have done wonders to clear up some confusion.

Basically, the whole endings was implying that Shirou was striding off beyond where Archer stopped, to an unknown future. He wasn't calling it quits.

Alright you faggots finally convinced me to read this. I'm downloading the moonrune version of RN as we speak. What patches does a filthy EOP need to play this?

>>133996024
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0BwBwxIaW_6FJZzlWRHVxVmRvU2c&export=download

>>133996070
thanks

>>133987145
>flawed but beautiful ideal.
Literally shit.

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>>133998144
It's not a mistake.

>>133988553
10/10

>>133983271
Worth it for who? As the reader I disliked her.

Yeah, definitely.
I don't understand people who say she's the main villain, no, Angra Mainyu/the corrupted Grail is the main villain.
Sakura went through a lot of shit yet people still have the nerve to dislike her because of those very things which weren't her fault at all.
I really just don't understand.