Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1308

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なるべく諦めない！
なせば大抵なんとかなる！

Persistence is the key to success. You CAN learn Japanese!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCRfTmBSGs
Early to bed and early to rise probably indicates unskilled labour.

私を日本語が上手です

>>133981093
いいえ、せんぱい

Remember vocab is my biggest problem, even worse than remember kanji for some reason.

>>133981255
>>133981255
>Remember vocab is my biggest problem
Why would I have to remember that vocab is your biggest problem?

>>133981205
失礼でござる

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Ten days.

>>133981498
What level are you taking anon?

>>133981333
Remembering.

Happy now, smartass?

Reminder: don't get dragged into arguments that you, yourself, don't care about.

>>133981498
Which level?

>>133981529
We need this in the OP from now on

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>>133981518
>>133981538
N2

>>133981579
Good luck

>>133981529
The joke's on you, I care about all my arguments.

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>>133981595
Thanks.

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After deciding to take a day a just to do reviews and lowering the new card count to 10 cards a day (It was originally 30), I actually went through all my cards for the first time in a while.

Here are my stats now

>うん
>ううん
Are you fucking kidding me?

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>>133982383
I think I'm done for today too, got ~400 reps left

果たしてこの中にどれだけの本物の日本人や日本語学習者がいるのだろうか・・・・
A Aren't there any real Japanese in this thread?;;

>>133982511
一人も居ないだろうな

>>133982461
uh huh
uh-uh

>>133982511
Why would Japanese people need to learn Japanese with a bunch of baka gaijin

>>133982383
What the fuck is going on with those gaps?

>>133982333

> ftw you realize that second bubble is an edit

fuck

>>133982586
For a period of time I just stopped doing reps

>>133982511
大学で日本語を専攻しているけど、恥ずかしいから誰にも言うな

>>133982511
多分私は本物の阿呆かも知れないじゃないですか。

>>133982383
50.3% correct

>>133982553
一本取られた

>>133982637
You aren't going to get anywhere like this. You need to play by the rules and do your daily reps, just like everyone else.

>>133982824
That's not true. He won't get anywhere quickly, but he will get somewhere.

>>133982383
Install Load Balancer. Like, *now*.

And enable leech suspension. You in particular need it.

What did you do today instead of studying?

>>133983007
Shitpost and wish I was less nervous to follow Japanese twitter accounts.

>>133981093
Doesn't make sense, gaijun-kun.

>>133983003
Stop shilling for your shitty Load Balancer program.
Anki's default algorithms are more than sufficient for nicely balancing out your load, assuming you study at a regular rate. All it does is mess with the intervals so words appear too soon or too late for optimal memorisation.

>>133983003
Installing now!
How to I enable leech suspension?

>>133982668
>言うな
This ain't right.

>>133983102
This
>>133983165
Ignore the load balancing shill.

>>133983165
Don't, you'll suspend half of your cards, just bruteforce through it.

>>133983050
センスを作りますぞい

>>133983102
>Anki's default algorithms are more than sufficient for nicely balancing out your load
Yeah they /totally/ help with massive spikes between tomorrow and the day after like are in >>133982383

>All it does is mess with the intervals so words appear too soon or too late for optimal memorisation.
I know exactly what it does and the only place it causes any tangible deviation from the "optimal rep time". Spaced repetition is an approximation and ease is not a rule. Your diet and daily life will affect the optimal timing of your reps much more than load balancer does.

Anki has jitter on intervals by default, you gonna disable that? No. You couldn't even if you wanted to.

Load balancer only comes into play in situations that are bad for your memory in the first place.

>>133983165
http://ankisrs.net/docs/manual.html

>>133983204
>you'll suspend half of your cards
At this point he needs that. Look at his fucking stats. Pathological cases, etc.

>>133983102
>assuming you study at a regular rate
Did you even see the post he's referring to? Guy studies like once a week. But even the load balancer can't help him at that point.

>>133983209
What?

>>133983234
>massive spikes
It's like 30 cards. LITERALLY MINUTES of studying.

Ya'll motherfuckers are way too lazy to learn Japanese.

>>133983297
>124 cards due
>No grammar studied today
>Just played Shimmy Gammy Tensay instead
We're all gonna make it.

>>133982383
>4% cards seen
>50% correct
It is best if you give up now.

>>133983297
It's like 45 cards and today he had to review like 54 and got 50% retention. You think he's gonna do any better next time? At 50% retention he is literally learning *nothing*.

>>133983376
He's actually learning half of it.

>>133983376
>50%
>nothing
This is some glass half empty shit.

>>133983376
Technically with anki's default ease of 250%, it's 40% retention where you're literally learning nothing.

Of course, anki's retention stat can't go below 50% because it's broken.

>>133983420
>Of course, anki's retention stat can't go below 50% because it's broken.

>>133983376
He has 50% retention because he uses anki twice a week. That's literally all there is to it. No amount of magic add-ons or settings can fix that.

>my stats are worse than this guy's
I feel bad.

>>133983420
>>133983429
>>133983484

>they don't know how the retention stat works

>>133983499
I believe in you.

>>133983437
>ease of 250%
Would lowering it increases one's amount of reviews per day?

>>133983499
>my stats are equal to this guy
Feels chill.

>>133983513
Yes. That's also what "Again" and "Hard" do, but only for that given card.

>>133982550
>>133982668
>>133982585
マジかよ・・・・まあ確かに日本人がこういうスレに来るのは珍しいかもな
なんかアドバイスでもできればいいなって思ったんだけど

>Why would Japanese people need to learn Japanese with a bunch of baka gaijin

You are so smart gaijin kun.

>>133983506
I do actually, and I have no idea why you included my post in that. The other two are wrong but >>133983484 is unrelated.

>>133983580
Even if someone uses anki like twice a week they should be remembering more than 5% (ish) of their cards.

>>133983564
Japanese people only go to the /int/ Japanese thread and shitpost about Koreans.

>>133983605
Eh, if you hit 2 on new cards they get scheduled for the next day, so it's enough to argue that you "should" only be able to remember new cards until the next day.

It's a matter of opinion and so far detached from the design of anki that it doesn't really matter.

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1) New deck
2) Added a junk card
3) Failed it several times. Pattern: Again; Good; Repeat
4) Finally don't fail it

The general retention stat is useless.

Bonus: this is why we say people are lying to anki when they have extremely high learning Correct %s.

>>133983713
What the fuck.

>>133983713
>Again; Good; Repeat

In other words you answered this
>Do you remember the card?
With this
>Yes, No, repeat

And you're surprised you get 50% yes and 50% no.

Oh boy, wait until you hear about coin tosses.

>>133983711
He had reps though.

>>133983775
The problem is this: The stat stops being about how many cards you remembered from the previous days, and instead starts being about how well you remember cards that are in the relearning phase.

The fact that cards in the relearning phase contribute to the general retention stat is retarded, and the fact that they contribute to the Learning bucket more than once is downright pathological.

The problem is not "wow, this says 50% when I press each thing 50% of the time". The problem is "this says 50% when I keep forgetting a single card."

>>133983849
>MUH STATS

>>133983977
I'm actively illustating why these particular stats are nearly useless.

>>133983849
>general retention stat
I don't think there's such a thing in anki? It only has correct% which is split between new, young and mature. I think you're just trying to read too much into the stats it presents.

Besides, over a large enough sample it doesn't really matter if it's the same card you're forgetting over and over again. The stats simply reflect how often you have to re-learn cards, whether it's the same one or different ones.

Reminder that finishing Core10k makes you roughly on the level of an 8 year old child

Enjoy your 20 new words a day!

>>133984136
>I don't think there's such a thing in anki? It only has correct% which is split between new, young and mature.
> >>133983713
> Again count: 4 (55.6% correct)

>I think you're just trying to read too much into the stats it presents.
When the stats are misleading at best and useless at worst, and other people in the thread are actively caring about them with such a misunderstanding, I'm definitely going to "care".

>Besides, over a large enough sample it doesn't really matter if it's the same card you're forgetting over and over again.
If I have 500 reviews a day and it says I'm only remembering 80% of them it had better actually be telling me that I'm only remembering 80% of them rather than some lower amount.

>The stats simply reflect how often you have to re-learn cards, whether it's the same one or different ones.
There is no need to know how often you have to relearn the same card multiple times per day. There is even less than no need for such knowledge to actively interfere with knowing how many cards you actually remember from day to day.

>>133982511
>本物の日本人や日本語学習者がいるのだろうか
「本物の日本語学習者」の基準がわかんないよー

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I've been using anki for 10 weeks now, but 5 weeks in I got lazy. Today is the first day since then I have finished all my reps, I swear I'll be back to my daily reps now.

>>133984405
>All that unevenness in rep count
le install load balancer

What should I do for listening practice for the N3?

>>133984260
Like I said, the again count simply reflects how often you have to re-learn cards. I asked for a "general retention stat" and you failed to show me one.

Nowhere in that picture does it say "retention".
Just because you want there to be retention stats doesn't mean they are there. If you think the stats displayed by default are inadequate then by all means go ahead and make a plugin to track actual retention. But right now you are effectively eating an orange and claiming it's the worst apple you've had.

>it had better
>There is no need
>even less than no need
>stats are misleading at best and useless at worst
These are your opinions based on an incorrect interpretation of the statistics offered by anki.

>>133984418
I'll by doing all my daily reps from now on, there's no need for it.

>>133984447
reading VNs should be enough
if not, watch more anime

>>133984447
>N3
Does anyone, anyone at all care about this? Employers need higher language skills than this.

>>133984475
I'll be doing all my reps starting 2016 too, feels good to know I will finally be getting somewhere.

>>133984418
>unevenness
>max difference of 30 cards
>literally 2 minutes of extra anki-ing on that one day.

>>133984516
It's not for an employer.

>>133984455
>Like I said, the again count simply reflects how often you have to re-learn cards.
I'm very well aware of that. You're preaching to the choir. It's still wrong.

>I asked for a "general retention stat" and you failed to show me one.
In that case the "learning" correct % is not a general retention stat either.

>Just because you want there to be retention stats doesn't mean they are there.
*Everyone* treats it like a retention stat. The interface makes absolutely no elucidation. You're playing word games with me while you know fully well that I understand what I'm talking about. You can wank right off.

>These are your opinions based on an incorrect interpretation of the statistics offered by anki.
I clearly have the correct interpretation of the statistics offered by anki. You're simply upset that I used a word to describe them that you think is wrong. I went out of my way to explain how they work and why this is wrong. You have no reason to be upset other than the fact that I think it's wrong for anki to use these particular stats. The fact that this is how they're implemented is absolutely no justification for it to be that way; that's tautological.

>>stats are misleading at best and useless at worst
This is not an "opinion" based on "incorrect interpretation". It's an opinion based on a *correct and legitimate understanding of what the stats are measuring*.

>>133984516
>he doesn't know how to set milestones to achieve his goals.

>>133984532
>来年から本気出す
That literally never works, if you want to succeed you start right now.

>>133984532
Why not do them all starting from now? Get a month ahead.

>>133984628
>>he doesn't know how to set milestones to achieve his goals.
A milestone you have to pay for. Great idea.

>>133984628
Just take JCAT.

What learning Japanese consists of:
reading manga
reading VNs
reading LNs

What we mostly discuss here:
Grammar texts
Anki
JLPT
offtopic stuff

>>133984600
Like I said, if you want stats that show different things than the default, you are free to write that plugin yourself. I have reps to do so I'm gonna stop arguing now.

>>133984900
>you are free to write that plugin yourself
Found anki's dev

>>133984488
How much should you be able to understand from anime at that level?

>>133984931
it makes so much sense now

>>133984886
What learning Japanese for asolute beginners consist of:
Not reading manga
Not reading VNs
Not reading LNs
Grammar exercises
Memorizing basic vocab

What we discuss here:
Grammar exercises
Memorizing basic vocab
Offtopic stuff, various arguments

ftfy

>>133984950
I don't know I didn't obsess about meaningless tests as a beginner

>>133984900
Explaining to a general userbase that they're understanding the stats wrong is somehow bad?

珍紛漢紛珍糞漢糞陳奮翰奮です

>>133985010
>陳奮翰奮

>>133984991
I might be a beginner, but if I do pass the test, then at least I can feel smug as fuck knowing that I'm just as good as the people who studied Jap for 4 years at college.

>>133985172
You could spend that money on buying anime merchandise and feel smug as fuck that you're supporting season 2 of whatever getting made.

>>133984999
Here's my summary:
He started off by arguing that the statistics themselves were somehow flawed, useless etc. and my counter-argument was that the stats show what they show, how useful they are depends on what you choose to infer from them.

He thinks you should be able to infer some sort of overall retention stat from them. To me that doesn't really make sense in the context of anki, since over time your retention of a deck should converge to 100% anyway. The closest thing would maybe be your overall mature correct% as new/young correct% will fluctuate, and especially the daily correct%.

But if he really wants his retention stat then he's free to make it himself, I don't know how he plans to calculate it and I don't think it would be particularily useful. Apparently that makes me the creator of anki.

Do you greet yourself after following a Japanese fanartist on twitter?

>>133985679
Abso-freakin-lutely.

>>133985560
>He started off by arguing that the statistics themselves were somehow flawed, useless etc.
In the context of how everyone treats them. Apparently context is what you lack.

>He thinks you should be able to infer some sort of overall retention stat from them.
Because people want it. See: "how useful they are depends on what you choose to infer from them"

>To me that doesn't really make sense in the context of anki
So people are free to want whatever information they want as long as it's what you think they should want?

>since over time your retention of a deck should converge to 100% anyway.
Citation needed, even the supermemo dev isn't this deluded.

>But if he really wants his retention stat then he's free to make it himself
My problem isn't not having a retention stat. My problem is having a combination "relearning efficiency plus general retention" stat. They're completely different information. Mixing them makes it impossible to actually know what your relearning efficiency or general retention for that day actually are. If the stat were actually a relearning stat or a retention stat, that would be fine. Being a "number of times I pressed correct rather than again" stat, as it's implemented, is of no use. People clearly want a true retention stat. That's what they always interpret the existing daily "Correct %" stat as. Every single thread with posts about stats.

>>133985321
No thanks

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>tfw no more new cards in your deck

>>133985798
How do you have 97% nonmature?

>>133985798
I will know that feeling later tonight. And I will make a post about it.

>>133985811
I went through most of that deck in under 2 weeks.

>>133985798
I just finished core2k/6k
I feel lost now

>>133985922
You have another 15,000 words to go, so get mining

None of this argument is helping me remember vocab readings or make sense of Tae Kim basics

Can you earn much money from translating?

I've been NEET for years, and have no other skills

>>133985988
I'll help you with tae kim basics anon

>>133986012
If you're good enough to do scholarly-tier translations, you can get away with using it like that.

http://strawpoll.me/6103643

>>133985942
>15,000 more to go
This sounds like pain, ofcourse I already knew this but now that I went through core its a actual thing

>>133986057
>burger power hour
Gee I wonder which is going to get the most votes.

If I wanted to say, "Clip

>>133986181
Are you okay

>>133986181
"Clip

>>133986212
no im having a nervous breakdown

>>133986212
>>133986181
クリプ大丈夫ですか？

Is this the birth of the next new meme?

>>133986057
Where do all these dirty ESLs come from

No wonder these threads suck

If I wanted to say, "Clip the pen to the poster", would I use を on pen and に on poster, or does japanese have a different way of constructing this?

>>133986281
EOPs are too dumb to be interested in a new language, that's why it's mostly foreigners even in American hours

>makes a mistake
>doesn't hide the thread and get off the board for a few hours
The fuck?

>>133986181
>>133986212
fuck me I'm still fucking laughing

>>133986355
m-me too

>>133985705
1. If you say so.
2. Could very well be.
3. I clearly expressed that it was my opinion, it wouldn't be useful to me personally.
4. No citation needed, the point of anki is obviously to learn all the cards you study. To converge towards 100% doesn't mean you'll ever reach 100%, let me rephrase it in a simpler way. The more you study a deck the more of it you should retain. That's not deluded but I assume you just misunderstood.
5. What you're saying makes some sense, but I don't particularly see the need to split the two because in your overall correct% it's going to average out your relearning efficiency anyway.

What would your proposed retention rate stat even look like? Because to me this:
>relearning efficiency or general retention for that day
Sounds completely meaningless.

Alright so I'm following the anki guide and now it's telling me to extract the core2k-image.munged.rar to the "collections.media" folder.

Is this "collections.media" folder something that's supposed to be there, or do I make it?

>>133986546
>I clearly expressed that it was my opinion, it wouldn't be useful to me personally.
I think it's silly to put things in that order, but it's sensible for you to be conservative on something like this and not just listen to one random person.
>That's not deluded but I assume you just misunderstood.
Let's chalk it up to misunderstanding. I'm sure you have a sensible opinion on it and I really don't want to argue about a detail.
>What would your proposed retention rate stat even look like?
I would probably split the existing stat into one or two that mean something. "Relearning efficiency" would be how many times you lapse relearning cards. "General retention" is how many /reps/ you fail vs not fail. Each of them is at least as valuable as the existing daily "Correct %", since that's effectively a combination of the two (plus some stuff about learning new cards that really does go to zero in large decks)

Because failing reps and lapsing relearning cards are affected by different parts of memory they shouldn't be opaquely mixed into the same stat.

>>133986303
That should be correct yeah.

>>133986796
Thanks.

>>133986679
Pretty sure it's already made when you install Anki. Should be in my documents --> anki --> user1

>>133986829
Ah, it's in documents. Thanks.

As always, half of the contents of this threads are half-correct or just wrong.
You guys better not believe what it says here.

Passing Japanese

>>133986703
>Each of them is at least as valuable as the existing daily "Correct %"
That's not saying much.

Anyway you want to know the ratio of failed young/mature cards, basically the current correct % without any new cards? That sounds more useful but it's still something that's going to fluctutate a lot and I think the monthly correct % on young and mature cards anki already offers paints a better picture.

>>133986879
Have you seen the English threads on 2ch? They are way worse.

>>133986921
Even if it fluctuates a lot, if you're gonna have a daily stat, it should be something that normal people can make sense of. I would be for anything other than the current situation, which is basically a placebo stat that people can't even compare to other peoples'.

Even a daily stat that fluctuates wildly is good for catching pathological stuff. If my monthly retention is 95% and one day I have 40% retention, I *really* want to know that.

>>133986993
You would notice your retention is down if you went from 95% to 40% without any stats

>>133987187
Not with relearning mixed into repping.

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Can anyone help me translate this sentence? Not sure if Google Translate is correct

えー?俺は目に見えないものを信じないようにしている

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>>133986952
holy moly

>>133987202
Doesn't seem like something that needs translating desu

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>>133987202
>えー?俺は目に見えないものを信じないようにしている

>>133987198
I remember which ones are the new cards that were added today, it's not that hard

>>133987202
I only believe in things I can see for myself.

>>133987202
I can't believe in what I can't see.

>>133987285
Sure is a good thing to waste brain capacity on that while doing rote memorization

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>>133987289
Thanks anon!

>>133981255
Once you learn enough kanji you'll be able to combine them to make up random advanced-sounding words.

>>133982461
>written u-un
>pronounced un-u
I never understood this

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>>133987449
It's actually uh-un

>>133987202
Eeeeee? My eyes can't see and I don't believe!

>>133987202
>>133987322
>>133987909
While it sounds slightly unnatural this is the correct translation, ignore >>133987289 and >>133987300

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>>133987991

>>133987909
Eh? As for me, I make sure not to believe things my eyes don't see

>>133988054
Eh? I'm making sure not to believe things that are not visible to my eyes.

>>133988110
Eh? I can't learn Japanese

>>133988217
Eh? I exist and make sure not believe thing not visible to eye

>>133988230
Eh? I do towards thing of not believing invisible to eye

>>133988356
Eh? This is a new meme

>>133988486
Eh? Better post it on Reddit for some easy upboats

>>133988486
Eh? dostedt

>>133988539
Eh? dattey

>>133988539
>>133988561
Eh? can i have some ramen ohayougozaimas

Word of the Day: 自由の女神像

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>>133988728
>すたちゅーおぶりばてぃー
と暗記しているんだけど、実際に何と呼ばれているかはわかんないよ。おにいちゃん

お仕事中のところをすみません。

Can this mean "I'm sorry, (but) I'm in the midst of my work" as well as "I'm sorry (to bother you) in the midst of your work" depending on context?

Picking out new animay to watch is suffering

>>133989077
No.

>>133989077
In the middle of work is no place to read.

>>133989117
Thanks.

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>>133989077
むつかしくかんがえないで。
まくらことばだよ。おにいちゃん

>>133989094
why

>>133982511
Is "Japanese" a fucking noun?

I see Japanese people use this all the time and I always let it go because I thought it was just their shitty grammar.

But now I see regular english speakers saying things like "Let's ask a Japanese"

Shit doesn't sound grammatically correct at all.

>>133989408
the plural form of an adjectives can be used a noun for the general group of things that have the quality of being that adjective

it's perfectly legitimate grammar

>>133989408
Thats cos you're ESL friendo

>>133989471
>the plural form of an adjectives
Sorry, meant an adjective used as a noun then made plural.

The singular also works but only refers to one object. "This japanese". "These japanese". "This red". "These reds".

>>133989471
>an adjectives

It's perfectly legitimate grammar

>>133989508
found the ESL

>>133989554
Found a peasant who can't think outside the box.

>>133989624
Grammar legit you know it is come on

>>133989637
I am become understanding itself.

日本人「日本語について何か質問あったら受け付けるよ！」
偽日本人「お前の言葉、嘘！お前日本人ではない！」
日本人「ええ・・・・（困惑）」

Truth of 4chan

>>133989717
偽日本人「日本語について何か質問あったら受け付けるよ！」
偽日本人「お前の言葉、嘘！お前日本人ではない！」
偽日本人「ええ・・・・（困惑）」

Fixed it for you

>>133989717
>日本人「日本語について何か質問あったら受け付けるよ！」
>外人「別に質問はないけど勝手にしろ」
>日本人「シクシク」

If you find someone speaks shit Japanese, that is weeaboo.
If you find someone speaks good Japanese, that is Korean.

>>133990114
If you find someone who is dog and not human, that is korean

>>133990114
Japan detected

>speaking Japanese
For what purpose?

>>133990114
Why are random American gooks like Tae Kim so good at Japanese?

>>133990114
If you find someone who hates Koreans, that is Korean acting as if he was Japanese

>>133990160
>Tae Kim
>Good at Japanese

>>133990207
He's way better than you'll ever be.

Should I watch the original Sailor Moon anime or the new one?

Or should I just watch something else?

>>133990268
Go to be Tae

>>133990270
Both?

>>133990270
Read the manga. Do not watch Crystal.

Or watch Princess Tutu.

>>133990270
Watch some kek show that will make you feel happy inside.

>>133990270
I don't know why you're coming to the DJT for anime recommendations.

>>133990308
Isn't the new one just a remake of the older ones?
>>133990322
Something wrong with Crystal? I tried watching Tutu a few years ago and didn't find it interesting back then
>>133990326
Hard to find those without just rewatching something good
>>133990359
It's for listening practice obviously

>>133990463
No remake is completely fateful though I haven't watched it.

>>133990142
You're already learning a language, why the fuck not learn to write and speak it while you're at it?

How many new cards do you guys add each day? I've got shit retention with 30 ;_;

>>133990715
It varies. I did 30 yesterday and it made me feel like a nigger.

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>tfw completed and understood my first manga without any help

t-thanks guys

>>133990715
I did 50 a day for like 4 months but I've stopped for a while now, focusing on reading/listening.

>>133990715
60. Reviews platoed around 100-120, but that's because I already know 90% of the words from watching tons of anime for the past decade.

>>133990889
It's all right, it's not like we actually did anything to help.

Doing anything less than 200 words per day is just pathetic desu senpai.

次の空欄に適当な言葉を選んで短文を作りなさい。

１．あなたに逢えて本当によかった。嬉しくてうれしくて「　____　」

>>133990990
Keeping the thread alive with shitposting makes guide readily available to new people who need it.

>>133991039
しかたがない
2ez

>>133990990
surrounded by your silly shitposting i feel more motivated in my studies

>>133991039
うんこがでそう

What's the best place in Japan to find easy yet good Yamato girls to impregnate? Nasty bar sluts won't do.

>>133991381
中学校

>>133991381
the local police station, just tell them what's up

>>133991381
Private christian schools for girls.

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>>133991381
海の星行けばいいとおもうよ。

>>133991417
Why would the girls be at the police station?

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>>133991068
あってるとおもうよ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km66pdPrD_s

>>133991509
The police are connected with the yakuza and the yakuza will get you some yamato girls

>>133991504
妹は海の星に通ってた？

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>less than a month until some of the anime from current season end
It's like a christmas present from Japan every year

>>133991624
What?

>>133990854
does that mean you felt like you did too much work or too little

How many new vocab words in Core2k/6k per day is typical? What did you do when you did it/are you doing currently?

>>133992244
I think 20 is the most common.

>>133992244
Just do what feels right for you as long as it's not some retardedly low number like 20

>>133992264
>>133992274
lol

>>133992244

I'm sorry, I typed out this question while still not having read the whole thread and did not know someone already asked this question this thread. Be that as it may I would still appreciate some responses to gauge what people usually do.

>>133992244
30-40, probably going to stick with 40 now. 20 feels way too slow.

>>133990715

30

It's a nice healthy amount. Not so much that the reviews start killing your reading time, but also enough that you feel like you're making significant progress every day.

It used to be 25 (also a healthy amount), but anki reviews get easier the further in you go, since you're dealing with a decreased number of unfamiliar kanji, even many of the kanji that you don't know are leaving hints about their reading and meaning that you can recognize, and your brain is more used to memorizing Japanese words. I was starting to finish up so quickly and easily that I never felt like I was done with my reps at the end. I might actually give 35 a shot before long, although 30 feels like a sweet spot for the time being.

>>133992244
20 is the minimum moderate pace. you should absolutely do at least 30 if you can handle it. the absolute bare minimum you should do even if you have the worst memory in the world and can't handle the reps is 10.

>>133992353
>>133992481
>>133992526

Hm, okay, thanks. Good to get a picture of what's typical. I'll try for more than that when I start but if my retention becomes awful I'll turn down the heat a bit.

>Can't retain anything I go over in anki
I'll just have to pray harder, Jesus!

>>133992244
A 4 year old learns 30+ words every day. You're not 4 so you should sure as hell be learning at least 100 per day, otherwise, you might as well give up now.

>>133992639
I don't think a christian diety will help you with learning japanese language. Pray to Yushima Tenjin instead.

What does it mean when you say a person is 少なそう? Like they're not good enough or something? It's not talking about quantity or something the person is lacking, so I'm not sure.

>>133992526

>the absolute bare minimum you should do even if you have the worst memory in the world and can't handle the reps is 10.

I'd say 20. Any slower than that, and you're crawling. Learning Japanese is a big task, You have to pick up the pace if you want to achieve your goals in this lifetime.

If your memory sucks shit, you should try to think about how you might help it. I know that it's frowned on here, but seriously, give RTK or Kanji Damage a look to give you a boost with the kanji. If you've finished a grammar guide, don't wait until you have 3000 words under your belt to start reading. If you haven't finished a grammar guide, then go finish a grammar guide. If you're sleeping too much or too little, fix that. Try exercising to get that blood flowing into the brain. If you find that you study better at certain times of the day, make sure that you study there. If you're missing days, then stop missing days. Basically, don't just accept that your memory sucks shit and there's nothing that you can do about it, because there probably is something that you can do about it.

>>133992836
10 is the pathological case -- worst memory IN THE WORLD -- not the "bad" case.

>>133992836
>faling for the "rtk is bad" maymay

>>133992869
Back in my German class in high school, my teacher told us the average human brain couldn't remember more than 7 new words a day.

>>133992655

This figure seems inaccurate, as it would estimate a five-year-old to have a 10,000 word vocabulary, a six-year-old a 20,000 word vocabulary, etc. Being that as it may I think it is possible to do more than that. Not sure about 100/day though. Perhaps if you were a NEET.

>>133992932

Generally people don't think about SRS systems and think of the word "remember" as meaning 100% retention with rote memorization, each day. Obviously with review one can exceed this figure, though.

>>133985679
I follow completely random people who I take an interest in and say nothing to them.

How do you even remember words in Anki? I don't get it. Leaves my brain as soon as I go to the next word. I'm black, btw.

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>>133992932
人間って、たくさん記憶はするんだけど、「かんたんに思い出せる記憶」ってなかなか増えないよね。

思い出ばっかりふえちゃって。

>>133992813
前後の文とか、画像とかをくださいな

>>133993052
You don't, anki is a pyramid scheme

>>133993052
post dick pics

>>133993228
>Posting thought crimes.
My nigga ...

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Finally finished my Core5k deck. I was really starting to burn out, so I'm glad it is finally over. Going to take a break for a few weeks to get the review count down then start on the DOJG deck. I will probably have to create a mining deck too.

>>133993160
Pyramid schemes are the best thing ever. Like, because of the way the network constantly expands you're guaranteed to get more money out then you put in, so it's basically free money for everyone involved. Such a great idea.

>>133992869

My point is that a lot of people are dipshits who are quick to surrender when problems arise. You really shouldn't assume that you're inherently stunted when it comes to comes to language learning until you've put a sustained effort into improving your retention. Sustained = you don't just try it a few times, think that it's hard, and decide that you just can't do it.

Also, I'd say that the worst case scenario would be zero, or at least less than one word per day. I couldn't see my mentally disabled relative who can't even read in English and who says "aaaaah" a lot when trying to express the exceedingly simple and short-sighted thoughts that go through his brain ever learning a foreign tongue. My hypothesis on it is that if you can speak and read fluently in your native tongue, you have the mental faculties to do a decent job at learning a foreign tongue, provided the right study methods. This possibly excludes people who've fried their brains via drug abuse, and obviously excludes people with dementia or any other mental disability that completely prevents them from focusing their efforts.

>>133993544
And people with amnesia or learning disorders that are otherwise well functioning enough to be posting on 4chan?

>>133993544
What about the gays?

>>133992836

>If you've finished a grammar guide, don't wait until you have 3000 words under your belt to start reading.

I was going to do Core 6k before I started reading. Why is this necessarily a bad idea? Wouldn't it be good to jumpstart my vocabulary so I could at least somewhat understand stuff before I started reading things? Should I just do Core 2k to start?

>>133993607
i started reading hanahira with 200 words

it's fine

>>133993607
>not doing BOTH all of rtk and core 6k before reading
It's like you don't even care about the language.

>>133993591

They obviously weren't so stunted when it came to language learning that they couldn't learn to speak their native tongue.

>>133993669
Someone's never met an autist

>>133993669
People learn their native language's vocabulary very slowly in comparison to how people here handle anki. I'm thinking five or less words a day, especially as a kid.

>>133993635
Hate to break it to you, but you've never really read hanahira if you only knew 200 words. You just kind of looked at a text hooker and formed a vague idea of what was happening. That's not reading.

>>133993720
>implying I used a texthooker
What actually saved me was the VA.

>>133993666

I get that you're joking but I am 600 kanji into RTK 1 and am going to finish it before I do anything else. I have to do it for my own sanity. (Not RTK 3 because that would be silly at a beginner level.) I have to do it because kanji just look like chicken scratch to me otherwise.

>>133993707
Kids learn words at rate that's somewhere between 12 and 20 words a day for a while. Regardless, no one here wants to spend 16 years to learn the language, so that speed's just not going to cut it.

>>133993782
What does RTK actually teach you? The first volume doesn't even cover readings, does it? I don't get it.

>>133993819
It teaches you to recognize and write kanji
"Remembering the Kanji"

>>133993850
Yeah but you don't learn any words from doing that.

>>133993607

Reading and anki compliment each other. You'll find that your retention rates in anki will go up, and that you'll gain a grasp on how the word is actually used. Not to mention hitting easy on shit that you learn while reading, and actually, you know, learning how to read. No matter how much you review a grammar guide, you'll still have grammar issues that you need to work out, and lots of intuition to build.

After you finish Core, you'll want to transition into your mined decks immediately, assuming that you aren't doing mined + Core alongside each other before then.


>>133993720

>Using a dictionary tool means that you're not reading!

By this logic, you're not reading at all until you never have to use a dictionary.

>>133993607
6k is seems overkill. 2-3k while doing tae kim's is probably fine.

>>133993867
Obviously you use another resource to learn words.

>>133993819
If it's anything like Remembering the Kana it teaches you about puppy tails and boomerangs or some shit.

>>133993819
Memorizing any new kanji with mnemonics. Discerning similar kanji through their radicals. Basic conceptual meaning of a kanji. Not forgetting small elements of the kanji, like dots or small dashes.

>>133993882
>By this logic, you're not reading at all until you never have to use a dictionary.
No, you're just being an autist and using a black-white fallacy. I don't know when it actually does become "reading" but it sure as hell isn't when you only know 200 words.

How to do a mined deck? The Rikai to Anki feature is terrible.

>>133993948
I started reading english when I knew zero words. German.

>>133993819

It assigns a keyword to each kanji (usually a primary/secondary meaning of said kanji) and has you create a mnemonic story to remember that keyword by using the sub-elements of said kanji for later recognition. >>133993907 explains it well.

>>133993867

I looked at some vocab decks. There is no way in hell I could learn vocab without doing RTK first. Each kanji would just be a bunch of random lines and dashes to me and I would never be able to reproduce them, especially as each kanji got more complex. RTK can make even kanji with a lot of strokes simple to remember.

I think many people on DJT hate it because it's not "real" Japanese, which is true, I suppose, but it builds a super helpful scaffolding to learn vocabulary and recognize kanji when you see them.

>>133993972
make a spreadsheet, save it to csv (actually tabs not commas) and import with the settings that prevent duplicate cards. You can also quickly update definitions on old words this way if you use the right import settings.

at least use http://www.genetickanji.com/ instead

>>133993893
>You should learn Kanji, Vocab, and Grammar at the same time
>Use different resources

Is there a singular resource that does all three in an effective way?

>>133994099
You should learn grammar and vocab at the same time. Vocab includes kanji. Fuck shit like RTK and KanjiDamage.

>>133994121

Why hate? It works well for me.

>>133994121
>being this pleb

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>>133994099
No
しょうがない

>>133994121
How do you propose learning those things then?

>>133994099
one part autism one part amphetamines

>>133994099
Yes. It's called reading.

>>133994287
reading RTK

>>133994287

Oh great, I will open a book written in Japanese and just start reading while only knowing the kana, not recognizing or understanding any kanji, not knowing any vocabulary, and having no knowledge of grammatical concepts. Sounds like a swell idea.

Just go to Japan and be yourself and the language will come to you

>>133994359
this desu

>>133993948

>look at written words
>consider definition and grammar rules (looking it up if you have to)
>use your findings to attempt to understand the writer's purpose

The reason why you can't figure out when it becomes reading is because you're trying to figure out when reading becomes reading, dumbass.

I'm not saying that you don't begin in a fog, making ridiculously stupid mistakes and getting things wrong. However, reading incorrectly is still reading, and only through reading incorrectly do you eventually reach a point where you get it right.

Any opinions on things to read that won't ruin the chance of reading those for the first time in the future? Like, easy to read newspapers or something like that

>>133994397
Reading incorrectly is not reading.
Reading incorrectly is reading incorrectly.

>>133994194
おねがいせんぱい ;_;

>>133994246
Drats, I only have one.

>>133994287
Is this like the "Ecce Romana" books they use for learning Latin where you're given passages, the vocab to read them, and occasionally grammar rules or are you talking more like >>133994359 ?

>>133994433
For someone to eat so incorrectly that they fail to eat then need to fail to swallow any food.

For someone to read so incorrectly that they fail to read then they need to fail to understand anything.

>>133994422
just read something youve read before in english so its more comprehensive if youre a beginner

>>133994422
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/

It was good when I was using it, but I haven't used it in months so I can't say if it's still good or not

>>133994459
What you want is a graded reader.

Those exist, but they're shit (just like Ecce Romana).

oh god after reading in japanese all day going back to native language feels weird

>>133994507
Why are the graded readers bad?

>>133994646
They're not inherently bad, it's just that none of the ones that exist are any good.

>>133994507
Now, I haven't gotten very far learning Japanese, so my opinion here is truly shit, but from my perspective wouldn't engaging the language in a way that's like reading actual text be a good way to learn? What makes it shit?

Don't support shit like RTK. That fucks newbies up. Report posts that do that shit.

>>133994689
There exist people that finish RTK in an SRS environment and then need to use sentence decks to remember vocab, wasting valuable time.

RTK really doesn't necessarily help.

>>133994334
Once you have the basics from something like Tae Kim (should only take about as long as learning kana), sure. See a word, a kanji, a grammatical concept you don't understand, look it up. After a while you'll find you remember them and don't need to look so many things up anymore. It's slower than Anki, but considerably more enjoyable.

>>133994764
Sounds like suffering.

>Not using Anki as a supplement to the rest of your study.

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>>133994660
>>133994646
I bought these when I was a beginner. The only bad thing about them were the outrageous price, but I had a job at the time so I didn't care.

>>133994669
Absolutely, they were excellent for that. I don't regret it.

>>133994785
>doing anything outside of anki whatsoever
That's just inefficient.

>>133994422

Just suck it up and find something that you'll actually want to get through. One of the biggest boons of reading is that it can easily become something that you WANT to do. Reading is fun, and when you're having fun, you retain what you see better, and you can go at it for longer.

I'd say that Flyable Heart was a good throwaway work for ironing out the biggest mistakes in my grammar. It's not great, but there's enough there that you're not bored, and the writing is such that mistakes don't really cause you to completely lose track of the story. Generally, the only thing that you'll miss is a stupid joke.

>>133994845
Scan then

>reading VN
>voiced line with no text
>can't repeat it

>>133994764

How am I supposed to remember a kanji just from searching it up and looking at it for a bit? 木, sure. 願, no. I am going to need something else. People like >>133994689 decry RTK universally just because they don't like it personally, even though it has helped thousands of people out learning the language.

>>133994883
Why is this allowed? Shit's annoying regardless of you being able to understand the voice or not.

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>>133994773
You're right, it's a terrible idea. You should definitely revise words out of context by repeating English definitions as they appear at set intervals every day for several months before reading anything.

>being closeminded

>>133994845
scan onegai

>>133994845
how much did the graded readers cost?

>>133994845
Why are your books upside-down?

>>133994947
Holy shit it just dawned on me why anki fags have such high stats. They don't even know how to pronounce the words, they just know meanings.

>>133994947

Hell, why even read Tae Kim first? Doing absolutely anything before reading is a dumb idea. Even learning kana before reading is a dumb idea. You should just start reading immediately. As soon as you see a kana you don't understand, you can then look it up. After a while you'll find you remember them and don't need to look so many things up anymore. It's slower than realkana, but considerably more enjoyable. Reading first without doing any preparation for reading is brilliant.

>>133994947
'reading'

>>133995058
That's how you box books.

>>133995064
Hell, if all you want is meanings, you can get that way faster by abusing rikai and not paying attention to the readings.

>>133995064
You're retarded if you think that.

>>133994712
How do people go about learning Japanese without doing RTK? Do you still use an anki deck for kanji while ignoring all the stories and mnemonics, or do you forgo all that entirely and just study vocab and memorize what the words look like?
I'm still pretty early on and I'm trying to learn kanji (with some radicals beforehand; not planning on doing RTK) before doing vocab. Not really sure if it's a great method so far. The words I recognize the best are the ones I see in grammar guides and pick out while watching anime.

Most people don't like RTK because they never plan on writing.

>>133995096
I just went through a list of every single joyo kanji. No concepts, no meanings, no readings, no nothing. Just the character. Sixty characters a day. Read the wiktionary articles on every single one. Used a real textbook typeface, not a mincho or gothic one. No spaced repetition. No attempt at memorization. No rote techniques. No mnemonics. No writing. Only mild textual studitude.

I don't know each of the joyo kanji, but I sure as hell don't see a blob of a shape with no meaning, and my memory is definitely associating the meanings and pronunciations of words with the actual characters, not their "shape". This is much, much more than I could do before piledriving the joyo kanji.

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>>133994845
へー、台湾の方が書いていたのですね。それなら、あたしも読んでみたいなあとおもうよ。

>>133995149
That's short sighted

>>133994911
Sure, remembering 願 out of context might be difficult, but if you see a cute anime girl say お願い several times, it shouldn't take long for you to be able to read it fine. This is exactly the problem with RTK - trying to remember 願 by itself, when for reading, it's a useless skill.

>>133995222
Not really unless you're learning Jap for normalfag purposes.

>>133994481

The term "to eat" refers to the act of placing food in your mouth, chewing, and swallowing. One wouldn't normally call it eating if you simply placed the food in your mouth and chewed, as the swallowing into your digestive system is the part that truly begins the process of turning the food into nutrition.

The term "to read" involves looking at written words, considering the definition, using the supplied grammar to piece them together, and then *attempting* to understand the writer's meaning. Even between two native speakers, the attempt in the last step is often unsuccessful.

For example, see this post: >>133992015

He did not understand the message of the poster that he was responding to. Are you now going to try to claim that he did not read the post of the person that he responded to, but rather, read it incorrectly, which is different from actually reading?

Even the the definition that I supplied is probably over-stringent for what would qualify as reading. If all you read were the first two words in my post, it would be perfectly valid to say that you "read the first two words in my post". If you did it using a dictionary, that would still be a valid statement. You don't even need to understand where I was going with it in order to have read them.

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>>133994870
>>133994974
I don't have the means to do so.

>>133995007
~$340 AUD. I didn't buy level 0. Pic is a page from level 1. I can't imagine how basic and pointless level 0 is.

The total collection on the website is $422. I sure did have money to waste.

>>133995058
They're in my box that I use as a footrest.

>>133995222
What's short-sighted is thinking you will need writing. For anything. It's on the way out already and has been for years, and the only way that trend will change is if civilization collapses.

>>133995265
I should have mentioned, they also have audio CDs that are read very slowly which is part of why they cost a lot. I never did make use of those, however.

>>133995265
If you take a picture of each one like that it will still be of huge benefit to us. Quality doesn't matter as long as it's intelligible.

>>133995256
Thinking you'll always be exactly like you are now IS short sighted

>>133995290
Fuck off.

>>133995288
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cdparanoia

>>133995265
>but the girl's always alone

fuck i wasnt prepared for this ;_;

>>133995316
>;_;
Stop.

>>133995206
At what point did you start learning vocabulary, though, and how?
It seems like adding spaced repetition and some amount of reading to what you did would make it a lot more effective. How much did the wiktionary articles help? That's mostly for etymology, right?

>>133995235

>This is exactly the problem with RTK - trying to remember 願 by itself, when for reading, it's a useless skill.

I think this is really closed-minded. For you it may be useless but for me it is not. Taking two months to do RTK makes vocab possible for minds like mine. Also, using your method, if you ever want to recreate it by actually writing it then you are buttfucked. You may be able to recognize the general shape of it for reading, but "recognizing the general shape" of 2000+ characters is an awful task.

>>133995339
You sure told him! Epic

>>133995339
>le dont use emoticons on 4chan maymay
Why don't you stop trying to fit in, you fucking faggot? That one's acceptable.

>>133995371
>tries to fit in with the very next sentence

>>133995302
c'mon man, why not?

>>133995383

this desu

Saying "that one's acceptable" just because you've seen it used a lot without scorn reminds me of that story of the monkeys and the water sprinkler.