Whis warned him earlier in the movie, Goku's weakness is he's too relaxed and doesn't keep up his defensive ki.
Then again, this scene was pretty retarded, as was most of 'F' with the Z fighters.
You'll get your answers if you watch the movie or Super, it'll likely follow the same.
For Super, watch Dragon Team releases upto 14, swap to Over8000 for 15-19, then back to DT for 20. I think there's a Season 1 batch for 1-14.
I'd say watch Battle of Gods movie first, then skip straight to Episode 12 of Super so you get past the shitty initial animation and dragged out scenes to where it starts getting good.
>Goku has destroyed multiple planets and stars through the shockwaves of his punches
The shockwaves of his punches didn't do any such thing.
>and it threatened to destroy the universe.
Uh-huh. And Ronda Rousey can box. Just because he says he almost destroyed the universe doesn't make it true.
He didn't say it. Old Kai, Whis and the Narrator of the show who's sole existence is to give us context as to what's happening said it.
>pic related, planet destroyed during punches
People think that "if they can do it that weak, then stronger power levels could blow up a planet". But keep in mind the Moon and the Earth are two different things. 30 trillion megatons of explosives is needed to destroy the moon. A rough estimation to destroy the planet Earth is one hundred million billion megatons. To make it easier (on me), it takes 12 zeroes at the end of 30 to destroy the moon. It takes 17 zeroes at the end of 100 to destroy the Earth (Feel free to correct me on the specific numbers in the comments below).
The Moon is 1/80 the size of the Earth. It would take a lot of force to make that same feat happen to the Earth. But then people bring up power levels that they have the power to do so. The problem is, much like the argument of super strength doesn't mean punching strength, high power levels doesn't mean high power output.
Doing good. By the way, the entire Justice League are gods now.
You know, actual gods. Not some powerlevel boost given a title that means jackshit.
Goku doesn't say shit. The fucking GODS (as in, both Kaioshins, Kaio, and fucking Beerus and Whis) did. Also, pic related for the planets being destroyed.
Blatant denial at this point.
>Retards still don't get it even after the movie spoon fed them several times.
This will never not be funny.
And his heart can be lasered at his peak form.
Are comics and cartoons still infested with Tumblr and political correctness?
>Three people stated as such.
>I forgot to mention that Manny Pacquiao said the same thing as if that matters somehow.
We get how defense works, you moron.
The complaints aren't about Sorbet managing to hurt Goku. The complaints are about Goku being a retarded piece of shit and a) lowering his power in front of an incredibly strong opponent and b) not sensing, seeing or dodging Sorbet's attack, who was right IN FRONT of him.
Goku lowering his powerlevel in the fucking SSJ GOD form shouldn't be able to get hurt so badly by a fucking freeza tech ring.
Even IF, even IF we accept that, why the fuck did he leave his powerlevel so fucking low that random mcfuck could blast him?
It's ridiculous no matter what excuse you drag up for it.
The current Superman is not even strong enough to break free from a random monster. (Said so himself and couldn't actually do it)
Meanwhile Goku's mere punches was going to destroy the universe.
Does link have the triforce? Oh wait, they exclusively state that he can't use it because that would involve the help of Ganon and Zelda?
It was a fight, not a wish battle you inbred fuck
But Goku didn't lower his power level at minimum. He's still in Super Saiyan Blue form.
Superman's laser eyes are one of his favorite weapons for that shit.
If Goku goes Doomsday on Supes, Supes just dumps him in a faraway place where even he can't use Instant Transmission to escape because life is too distance for him to sense.
Isn't DeathBattle the same thing that limited Cloud to all of his beginning equipment and then allowed Link to use whatever equipment he got from whatever games?
Even though there are different Links in most of these games?
So what we're getting at is that we have to choose between a plothole or shitty writing just so Vegeta can get a turn?
My point still stands
>Retards still don't get it even after the movie spoon fed them several times.
And Superman could survive a nuke while he's asleep. Goku has to stay constipated just to be invulnerable.
This is why DBZ is shit compared to actual superheroes that can pull planets around and bench press the Earth for five days.
Come back when your super saiyan "god" can actually do something godlike other than "punch harder and shoot more energy blasts but is still weak to normal lasers because apparently omnipotence wasn't part of the powerset."
Supes does Plan B on Goku. Goku dies.
Even though Jaco states their are "tons of galaxies" in the universe, so that theory is outright wrong.
That and Beerus ends up saving the Universe using 100% of his power.
Seriously, stop arguing things you clearly haven't watched/read.
So threatening the universe isn't Godlike?
Superman can survive several supernovas, actually.
And sneeze away a solar system. Beerus has to tap his finger in order to destroy a measly planet.
1. Goku didn't die from the laser.
2. Supes' laser is not enough to even hurt Goku (do you even read the New 52 series?)
3. It's a complete mismatch. New 52 feats are laughable compared to the current Dragonball.
Even Golden Age Superman (weakest Supes) can laser Goku.
Are we talking about him being depowered because that's only temporary. Right before that he got an ability where he becomes a spirit bomb. Before being depowered he was stronger than ever. New 52 Superman was pretty OP... until Helspont came around.
>omnipotence wasn't part of the powerset
That would make Goku more annoying that he is. DB is about wanting to be stronger to face stronger enemies, not about a fag in latex being the ultimate gary stu.
1. He needed a specific magical powder to do that.
2. That is not a canon Superman. That's like saying the Superman that got beaten by Muhammad Ali and the one that got beat by a cowboy is canon.
3. He can't even break free from generic monster now.
4. Beerus and Goku clashing was going to destroy the universe. Superman has no feats at that level.
>1. He needed a specific magical powder to do that.
So you didn't read it? All the powder did was make him sneeze. Superman himself made the sneezes solar system destroying.
>So threatening the universe isn't Godlike?
Sounds like a daily threat for Superman.
That old stuff is ridiculous but Superman is still an unkillable juggernaut of good. Come to think of it, even the spirit bomb wouldn't work on Superman, he'd just bat it out of the way... or absorb it into his body.
Not canon. Let's talk about the current Superman.
The Goku that was almost destroying the universe? Superman will be dead before he even gets the chance.
Pre-Crisis Supes > DB Super Goku > New 52 Goku
Rebuttal. Supes can even do a Dio.
>Not canon. Let's talk about the current Superman.
It wasn't even a special laser that got Goku, tho. Current Supes would wreck him.
The really sad thing is, that instead of a cool series of movies following the plot of BoG, we have to deal with the utter shit that is RoF and Super just so some people can use the DBS feats in the Goku Vs Superman argument.
>pitting the strongest Goku against the weakest Superman
FYI, like I said, even Golden Age Superman (who can get killed by a nuke) can laser Goku's heart and defeat him.
What more modern Supes?
Actually, DB characters can't stand a chance against Supes when he goes Reality Warper on their asses.
New 52 Supes has good feats when he's not fighting. When he's in actual combat >>133944727 he's not impressive at all. Why do you think Goku's greatest feats are when he's fighting and Supes' feats are when he's comfortable/not under attack? Because Goku is the better fighter.
And as of DB Super, he has better destructive capacity and durability. Seriously, don't take my word for it. Read New 52, Supes is weak as fuck compared to the current Goku.
>And as of DB Super, he has better destructive capacity and durability.
Not really, since he can still take multiple supernovas and the DB universe is pathetically small compared to the DC universe (which is more based on our expanding universe).
>pitting the strongest Goku against the weakest Superman
No, it's about pitting the current canon Goku against the current canon Superman. Is that so hard for Superman fans to do? I know New 52 Supes is weak as fuck compared to Goku and Beerus, but still.
And New 52 Supes has nothing on the Goku that was about to destroy the universe. If you want to prove me wrong, post scans of New 52 Supes about to destroy a universe.
Small dick complex? Small dick complex? Good for the fag. Goku and Vegeta stealing the spotlight from the rest of the characters is bad enough.
Also, the universe in DB works different, a simple punch in the nest of time would destroy all the multiverses.
Superman has immense control over physics. Some might say he can even defy it.
>he can still take multiple supernovas
He never directly tanked ANY supernova. Look at the scenes in-context, Supes avoided the supernova, and the other time he was on a different planet. Post the panels and see for yourself.
Superman will beat Goku, that much is certain.
Goku gets stronger every fight, that much is certain.
Goku will never stop trying to be the strongest, that much is certain.
Superman will never kill Goku, that much is certain.
Goku will eventually win, that much is certain.
I like how all the DBZfags can't even defend themselves. Goku gets a power boost and still gets taken out by a laser blast. It's the single most embarrassing thing to happen to Goku, topping Krillin's rock.
Superman could be taking a nap and wouldn't be phased by either.
Any version of Superman can beat Goku because Goku's peak form is susceptible to lasers to the heart.
>Goku will eventually win, that much is certain.
Nah, dude. If he goes Doomsday on Supes, Supes just dumps him in the far reaches of the universe, unable to teleport with his Instant Transmission because he's so far away.
>He never directly tanked ANY supernova.
He has. He has battled and met multidimensional beings far stronger than the ones Goku has dealt with.
Okay, since this thread will go on forever, here are the facts.
1. The current canon Superman is far weaker than current canon Goku/Beerus/Whis.
2. New 52 Supes doesn't have any feats that even come close to Goku almost destroying the universe.
3. New 52 Supes couldn't break free from a random monster. Current Goku is shattering planets and stars all over the universe just from the force of his punches.
Post scans of New 52 Supes near destroying the universe with punches or don't post at all. It's over.
>Goku gets a power boost and still gets taken out by a laser blast. It's the single most embarrassing thing to happen to Goku
Oh, no, nigga there are things worse than that. Goku is a retarded manchild who barely knows how to count. DB/Zfags know that, you in the other hand are just a butthurt /co/fag defending a character more raped than a whore by the retarded writers that one day decided to change his powers because reasons.
As opposed to the guy who got lasered in the heart by one of Frieza's henchmen?
Long story short, Pre-Crisis Supes wrecks Goku (and pretty much everyone else).
Post-Crsis Supes (and Golden Age Supes) can't beat Goku (and New 52 Supes is actually stronger than what Supes used to be like Post Crsis).
Anyhow, Pre-Crisis Supes is unlikely to make a come back. So, I find it silly to keep bringing him back.
tl;dr: Pre-Crisis Supes >>> * >>> Goku >>> New 52 Supes > Post-Crisis Supes >>>>>> Golden Age Supes
That's Vegeta, Goku is an autistic man, but he doesn't hide the fact that he just want to be stronger.
Accelerator would reflect that laser in his sleep. Literally. How can Goku be so weak?
But Goku always gets his defenses off, though.
Not even bait. Look at Goku's history.
He was at peak power tho. He wasn't even base form.
Typically I would say go fuck yourself /co/ but Goku's level of jobiness deserves to be shat on.
Doesn't debunk shit about my statement, though
The moon is 700 sextillion tons and a ki fart can send it flying thousands of kilometers across space
lifting 200 quintillions tons is literally nothing.
>full blast from an equal power level enemy
>virtually drained of power taking the most powerful shot from his ally
>has attained "godhood" and is taken out by a blaster that was irrelevant in fights since the beginning of DBZ
Can't wait for Super Saiyan God 45 where he dies from an allergic reaction to pollen.
>The moon is 700 sextillion tons and a ki fart can send it flying thousands of kilometers across space
Meanwhile, Superman can destroy countless civilizations by flying really fast.
That's another thing, too. Superman just tanks hits. His stamina and endurance are nearly endless, especially near a yellow sun. Sometimes you think "that nigga ded" and then just shrugs it off and goes for another round.
>is taken out by a blaster that was irrelevant in fights since the beginning of DBZ
I accept your concession. Any Superman with laser vision can take out Goku.
Including the current Superman.
The difference is that in the movie's moral was to tell Goku he needed to fix his overconfidence, those morons said Goku would get reck even with his defense up.
And you are a retarded for watching them in the first place.
You want a job king, how about Psychic Shapeshifting Density-Shifting Superman?
>Learn to read tard, it says nothing about him destroying planets or anything
You learn to read.
>A defeat is a defeat
So by that logic...
Batman tricked and knocked out an all-knowing god. So yeah. Preptime pretty much trumps any saiyan powerlevel.
Superman has gotten has shit slapped by fucking Batman before with no kryptonite and he's just a normal guy who's super power is literally money.
Bad writing is what defeats a powerful character, and RoF is full of fuckups. Not to mention that it isn't exactly cannon anymore, so we'll see how they handle the scene in the anime and manga.
Plus, Goku and Vegeta were pretty much the power ceiling by the end of DBZ, but now in an effort to make more characters seemingly more powerful for them to fight, they are literally the power level floor now.
Depowering characters and giving them stupid, nonsense weaknesses is pretty much an axiom of comics AND anime.
Goku got hit by the laser because the story called for it, stupid and inconsistent as it is.
>Not to mention that it isn't exactly cannon anymore, so we'll see how they handle the scene in the anime and manga.
They kept true with BoG pretty closely, they just added things. I'm thinking the same thing will happen with RoF, with the scene of Goku getting rekt by a laser fully intact.
Superboy Prime shattered reality, survived a universe shattering explosion, and survived creating a paradox by punching an alternate future version of himself.
But bringing him into this wouldn't make the fight fair.
>Not that it matters
Neither best girl's personality. Can you just go back to the /co/ vs /a/? You just touched a weak spot.
Superman once almost ended the universe searching for Kara once.
>Resorts to ad hominem because he can't refute his point
Aren't you more of a Tumblrina?
Oh so you did mean to use that image and you just have nothing good to say. And you used it incorrectly, too. Why are you still here? Apparently powerlevel threads are too much for you.
>You are aware that's filler from the anime right and how Freeza destroys planets actually involves using his Death Ball to drill into the core of the planet?
It's new footage from super anime which is primary canon.
keep trying to downplay, a chain reaction would be unnoticeable in a realistic timeframe
The resulting explosion far exceeds that.
please stop talking about shit you know nothing about.
Or maybe I'm calling you butthurts because you just can't accept your precious fag has various versions that are weak as fuck. If you use that laser gun meme are least have the guts to accept your defeats.
And no, you are as annoying as the tumblrinas.
>It's new footage from super anime which is primary canon.
The primary canon is the manga.
DB Super is GT 2.0.
Even then, see >>133946479
>Superboy Prime shattered reality, survived a universe shattering explosion, and survived creating a paradox by punching an alternate future version of himself.
It's never a fair fight when you deal with Superman.
Actually no, that clearly is not a deathball and is more in line with a casual ki blast.
And the explosion was instantaneous so no chain reaction bullshit downplay can save you
get rekt scrub.
Just remember, John Stewart destroyed three planets.
>The resulting explosion far exceeds that.
>Actually no, that clearly is not a deathball and is more in line with a casual ki blast.
Not really, since in canon (and before that was incorporated into canon), Freeza's modus operandi of destroying planets involves using a Death Ball and flinging it into the core of the planet.
Always has always will be.
Can we agree that Superman wins cause he has a better waifu than Goku?
So in other words, not canon and it's fanon calculations?
Thanks for establishing that. Meanwhile, Supes wrecks both Goku and Frieza at the same time. Lasers for days.
>Tell that to those movies where fag is defeated by Batman.
Actually, Supes was "defeated' by Batman with a robot and a nuke, but in the end Supes still "kills" Batman.
People keep ignoring that part.
>Scan clearly shows the planets supes punched throug weren't destroyed
He has controlled aggression that aims directly on his opponents instead of the neighboring planets.
It's like a boxer pinpointing his strikes versus an idiot who keeps throwing haymakers everywhere in the hopes that one would land.
>Having been reborn as the mightiest of warriors after serving as Freeza’s training partner, Tagoma of the Freeza Army mercilessly attacks Gohan and the others. And then Tagoma changes bodies with Ginyu (previously captain of the Freeza Army's mightiest unit, who became stuck in the form of a frog due to his special ability), achieving an even further power-up.
This is just as dumb as Frieza's powerup and Roshi being powerful as fuck all along.
There's now homolust over Batdad. Bruce currently has super amnesia where he no longer has any memories of being Batman, not even repressed. Gordon is now Batman in a mech.
And Dick Grayson is sexualized like crazy now.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
The most amazing thing is he could still keep going after tanking a hit like that. What insane stamina.
>Thinking Link could lose to Cloud or Sepiroth.
Nigga, you really want this to end in a murder?
Don't talk shit about Link.
Lol denial at its best. Almost destroyed the universe indeed as stated by the kaioshin. Manga/ anime don't work like American comics.
Not to mention, goku ssj3 in battle of gods punched through king kaio planet with 10x the density of earth..... Cmon bruh get that denial outta here and a casual punch.
A lot of anime fans clearly don't read American comics. These things aren't retcons. DC just makes new universes for stories to take place in. Almost everything that's happened actually happened, just in alternate or parallel realities. Shit, even elseworlds could be argued as actually happening in some ass-backwards universe no one knows or gives a shit about. Even that one time when they had a jar of superman's jizz they were using to repopulate humanity.
I think this is the heart of the issue. Superman is strong because he has something worth fighting for, which means he also would attempt to win without confrontation. Some of my favorite of superman's feats were not purely physical. Read all-star superman. He is also a fucking genius whose abilities give him an enhanced understanding of reality. He could certainly outsmart goku and would be willing to go to greater lengths if he was fighting for something. But just a fight for fun? As a test of strength? Yeah goku would win because superman wouldn't and couldn't go all out unless there was some reason.
In the words of pretty much every human being alive.
Stop arguing about fiction, it literally comes down to the writer no matter what bullshit you guys come up with.
Very poor reasoning.
In god form they are able to survive the vaccum of space.
This hyperbole form (title) Getting shot with a lazer.... Because of a gaurd being dropped. Bad writing and no thought put into durability......
It shouldn't matter in god form, it should be deflecting everything with a title like that
Goku needs to flex and pay attention in order to keep himself from being lasered by people.
Meanwhile, Superman is always on autoguard.
Goku gets lasered. End of story. This is as open and shut a case as Ronda Rousey losing to a boxer.
>This hyperbole form (title) Getting shot with a lazer.... Because of a gaurd being dropped.
This would never happen to Superman even with his guard lowered. Goku gets lasered because he's not flexing. Deal with it.
He ain't laser proof tho.
It isn't. When Goku believes that a threat is gone, he will let his guard down. This usually doesn't happen unless he can't sense them or otherwise thinks they're harmless.
As someone who read DC, I say which one? There's far too man to generalize. You might as well say "Sayain" or " character ".
As much as I dislike RoF. I know how this scene works. Physical ability in DBZ is greatly helped by Ki. With Ki, characters are enough to do as much damage as needed. By raising or lowering their Ki, they adjust their strength thus can open doors and have sex despite being able to destroy solar systems. Even in a transformed state, lowered Ki is lowered defense. This is consistent with the rest of Dragon Ball.
>Even in a transformed state, lowered Ki is lowered defense
Which means they're vulnerable and attempting to make a debate of Goku beating Superman has become even more of a pipe dream.
>It isn't. When Goku believes that a threat is gone, he will let his guard down.
If a henchman with an ordinary gun can get the jump of a SSJB Goku, what more Superman and his precision control over his laser eyes (that Goku isn't even aware of existing)?
Goku was shot at the front, at that.
>As someone who read DC, I say which one?
Everyone with laser eyes.
Powerpuff Girls and Cyclops could get a jump on Goku as well.
Goku's pretty low tier, when you think about it.
>which means they're vulnerable
No, it means they can control themselves. Powered-up, they become as strong as their power allows. They're by no means vulnerable in combat.
They CAN become vulnerable, not always are.
That's funny, I read DC & I can say he's far from invulnerable. Superman is somewhat Solar Powered. If deprived of enough sunlight, he becomes weak. He's vulnerable in that state.
Superman has been defeated many times. Darkseid, Doomsday, alternate universe versions of himself, etc. Kryptonians aren't invincible.
>Superman would forever condemn a man who just wants to fight for the fun of it and can become a good ally in the future
You Superfags are so caught up in your powerlevels that you forget your own character
>Superman would forever condemn a man who just wants to fight for the fun of it and can become a good ally in the future
If Goku pulls a Doomsday, he's going to end up in the Phantom Zone or worse.
>that much of a jump
Sorbet was hiding and planned this. I get Goku there. Frieza is the main threat and he's down for the count. Even assuming something happens, Vegeta, Beerus, Whis, etc are there. That's one issue I have with RoF. I felt no tension due to the millions of safety nets. Frieza's going to need to be able to defeat Goku. Vegeta, Beerus, etc in a row to be a threat. Also, Sorbet's at minimum an elite soldier. He took over when Frieza was gone.
>No, it means they can control themselves. Powered-up, they become as strong as their power allows.
Except Goku was powered up when he was lasered. He wasn't even in his base form. It wasn't even a special laser.
>Sorbet was hiding and planned this. I get Goku there.
He's fragile when he lets his mind wander and he has let his mind wander before. Also, SSJ3 is Goku's jobber form. Have you ever remembered any time when that form ever won a fight?
No you fucking kek Goku is going to fight Superman in fun sparring matches and eventually uses the Saiyan biology's ability to get stronger and stronger each time to eventually surpass Superman. And since Goku is a good guy Superman has literally no reason to fuck him over like that, unless he's some sort of insecure faggot asshole apparently.
You think that I defend that shitstain of a movie?
Either way, you clearly didn't watch it. Whis launched a surprise attack when Goku was relaxed and on break time. Goku doesn't relax in the middle of the battle unless victory is assured.
>No you fucking kek Goku is going to fight Superman in fun sparring matches and eventually uses the Saiyan biology's ability to get stronger and stronger each time to eventually surpass Superman
Doomsday already did it. He ended up in the far reaches of the universe. Same thing will happen to Goku. He'd be so far he can't even use his Instant Transmission to get to the nearest planet with inhabitants.
Irrelevant. Regardless of what form you're in, lowered guard is lower. SSJ2 Goku was knocked out in one blow due to Majin Vegeta, Super Buu has been shot while distracted, etc. You can be SSJG9001 while having your Ki lowered to nothing.
>You think that I defend that shitstain of a movie?
It's canon, though. Cry more. I'm enjoying this.
I'll also enjoy seeing the butthurt when the same exact scene happens in Super.
You know Goku doesn't need living people to get to places right? He can IT to straight planets.
And he HAS shown the ability to IT very far (from Beerus' castle back to earth with a high power level). But even planets have ki signature, he could pull a majin buu and just IT from planet to planet until he senses energy again (or king kais, and he can get back from their)
>Completely ignores the second part of the post
Fucking Superfags just can't let Superman lose amirite? Fuck having a new ally to help defend the Earth more effectively with. Superman has to be the best ever!!!!
How about with Fat Buu?
Why are people assuming this? Then again, I doubt /co/ reads comics at all, even less than /a/ reads manga. It's a strange day when /tg/ has better comic threads.
No wonder these threads tend to be shit. You haven't read a thing haven't you? Can isn't must. In combat, Goku's guard is up. Times like that don't happen unless the enemy isn't a threat.
This comes from a guy who reads manga & American comics.
>SSJ2 Goku was knocked out in one blow due to Majin Vegeta,
So this is a recurring problem that Goku hasn't fixed since forever.
Yeah, he has no chance against Supes.
>You know Goku doesn't need living people to get to places right?
False. Instant transmission requires ki signatures to work. That's why Goku proclaimed to Dende that he could not travel to New Namek because their ki signatures were too far away.
>yfw DB Super retcons the laser scene and eternally BTFOs the Superfags and Saitamafuckers
Is /co/ always this bad? Why can't people read the manga and count? The circumstances are that Goku believes he has won & has no reason to be tense. This isn't something that happens in the middle of an active fight.
>Completely ignores the part where I post "If he goes Doomsday on him"
How would Superman even know that Goku is a good guy if he just attacks him? Also, in a sparring match, expect a repeat of Beerus but worse.
He couldn't travel to new namek because he didn't know where it was.
In super he shows the ability to "scan the universe" in search of Vegeta's Ki. Even planets have Ki. It was shown during the spirit bomb against freeza. he could planet hop.
>implying that will last
>implying the status quo wont be restored in the end
>The circumstances are that Goku believes he has won & has no reason to be tense.
Goku has let his guard down countless times in battle, including the time he got his body switched by Ginyu, he got shot by Piccolo because he wasn't paying attention, and that time you mentioned Vegeta knocking him out.
It's not exactly rare, it's a recurring problem. Superman smokes him like Mayweather smoked Pacquiao.
>He couldn't travel to new namek because he didn't know where it was.
No, he couldn't travel to New Namek because Dende's ki signature was too far away.
Have you even read Dragon Ball?
Goku's weakness is his heart. His heart condition killed him. When the first time he died in the hands of Piccolo, he was shot in the heart. When he got lasered in RoF, it was through the heart.
It has everything to do with his heart.
If he underestimates Superman the same way you are (and it looks like he will, judging by past behavior), he gets lasered to the heart.
Or he just gets lasered in the heart because he never goes full power on an opponent and goes to the trouble of going from least to greatest form every time.
>including the time he got his body switched by Ginyu
Ginyu literally tried to off himself and the fight was pretty much over, and body change is not a conventional attack that does physical damage so there is no reason to believe he lowered his defenses there
Piccolo was lying on the ground looking completely defeated, didn't even shot until Goku averted his sight
The fight with Vegeta was also over, vegeta cheapshotted him when he was reaching for senzus to heal him
There is not a single instance where he has lowered his guard against a healthy oponent and superman will never use cheap tactics like pretending to be injured to win a fight.
Not Ki? This is ridiculous. Kenny McCormick died many times to being shot yet wasn't especially weak to bullets. The heart condition was due to disease, Raditz already crushed Goku beforehand, etc.
>Ginyu literally tried to off himself and the fight was pretty much over, and body change is not a conventional attack that does physical damage
But Goku doesn't know that Superman has laser eyes and all Supes needs to do is stare at his chest and fire.
He died from Piccolo's second shot. The first shot showcases Goku's tendency to leave himself open that is still seen even at his peak power.
Goku is too vulnerable to stand against Supes. He has no defense against the laser eyes.
>Toriyama is the one writing the script from the anime
With changes from an anime staff, so the input isn't solely from him.
But if you insist that the anime staff has a claim, then RoF and Goku getting lasered to the heart remains canon, according to you.
If that's not canon, then Goku is too weak to even stand with the likes of Superman.
>But Goku doesn't know that Superman has laser eyes and all Supes needs to do is stare at his chest and fire.
It doesn't matter, he won't lower his guard unless the opponent is defeated and the lasers won't do jack.
Yeah he died from the Special Beam cannon that killed him and Raditz. But that was his ENTIRE BODY not just his heart. So that's 2 heart related deaths. Correlation doesn't mean causation.
And it's been discussed, when Goku DOES have his guard up there is nothing to show that Heat vision will get through it, especially since he can now no-sell attacks much stronger.
And another thing, if Goku is in-character, then superman is too. And superman will NOT rush to a lobotomy/heart. He just doesn't do that unless in dire straits.
>Citations, I'm going to need to see some.
You just cited some, like the Majin Vegeta fight and Goku getting shot by Piccolo.
>never goes full
Never goes full immediately.
If you need citation, you only need to look at the "canon" Beerus fight in Super where Goku fights Beerus in stages and forms.
Same applies to superman, specially superman of all people, he lowers his powers to the point his attacks are harmless to humans.
Lasers will be useless in the first instance because they will be much weaker than even a conventional gun.
>But that was his ENTIRE BODY not just his heart.
>examples of underestimating
Unfortunately, he took them rather seriously and only lowered his guard after he thinks he won.
"This is SSJ", " This is SSJ2", etc. Beerus never fought a Super Saiyan before & Goku is showing him his forms. Context is key.
That's the center of his fucking body, just like raditz. The blood spewing upwards is because he's falling. Sure it may of hit is heart but that's because it's a HO:LE IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS BODY
Let's play politician!
>But that was his ENTIRE BODY not just his heart.
>That's the center of his fucking body, just like raditz.
So is it the center of his body or his entire body?
Both wrong. He got shot in the heart.
>/a/ in charge of anatomy
>You're really stretching that word.
If he lowers his guard because he thought he finished off his opponents and they weren't finished off, then he underestimated their strength.
Think, McFly. Think.
Wait so what OP showed WASN'T directed at his heart? So what is his weakness? his lung?
You're being a nitpicky faggot. It has nothing to do with his heart being attacked and everythign to do with his defenses being down.
And to counter, the top of the hole seems to be at about his nipples, that means AT BEST he caught the bottom of his heart. Most of what got fucked up would've been his lungs.
I don't get how the heck people come up with this shit. It's nothing official aside from circumstantial yet people cite it.
I'm sure Majin Vegeta hit Goku's heart with that neck blow.
Not the same, all oponents were pretending to be defeated or were helpless.
Piccolo lowered his ki waited until the count was down to 1 to attack
Vegeta cheapshotted goku when the fight was already over and since Goku trusts vegeta he lowered his guard to give him a senzu.
Frieza was throwing a tantrum and couldn't do anything at that point
Superman will never do any of the above because, he can't and its outside his moral boundaries to cheap shot his enemies.
It's not in the middle of the body though. It's at chest level.
Also, you've abandoned the debate with another because you've probably resigned yourself that Superman will wreck Goku.
>Piccolo lowered his ki waited until the count was down to 1 to attack
>Vegeta cheapshotted goku when the fight was already over and since Goku trusts vegeta he lowered his guard to give him a senzu.
>Frieza was throwing a tantrum and couldn't do anything at that point
So Goku underestimated his opponents and paid the price for it like Whis said here >>133953493
Thank you for reinforcing my point.
>i said heart is HIGHER than the middle.
>And no, Goku's universal threatening punches would demolish your dear big blue boyscout.
He'd get lasered in the heart first tho.
Sarcasm doesn't come off well on the internet. It's pointing fun at the fact that even though the two attacks are at different locations, they're both hitting his heart.
Maybe Gokus heart just takes up his entire upper body.
>since he will never lower his guard
He consistently lowers his guard and he has no idea Supes has laser eyes, tho.
>It's pointing fun at the fact that even though the two attacks are at different locations, they're both hitting his heart.
They are both hitting the heart. Do you even know how lasers work?
Yeah that shows the center of the CHEST not BODY, Learn to read.
And why would superman just laser his heart right off the bat?? Show me an instance where superman went STRAIGHT TO THE HEART.
>Yeah that shows the center of the CHEST not BODY
Goku was shot in the center of the chest.
>Implying during the initial fight Superman wouldn't use is heat vision as a general attack
Oh wait yes he would because he always does
>Do you know how lasers work
Do you know how aiming works? Both attacks hit in 2 different locations on his body but apparently they both hit his heart.
I thought Freiza's contingency plan was like, a bomb on the ship to blow up earth if he died during the fight. I was cracking up in the theater when Frieza's big plan was to just have the little dude shoot Goku.
You're just nitpicking parts of the post and stretching definitions of words to enforce your poorly constructed argument, on top of creating scenarios that completely disregard the characterization of both characters
you're just trolling at this point and don't deserve further replies.
Still shot in the chest in the manga.
That's really stretching the term. It's more like if after winning a boxing match, the other guy had enough energy to get up & maybe even pull out a knife against you. It's unexpected, it's after tiring the opponent, etc.
through the body doesn't mean it hit the heart. The first one with piccolo was completely horizontal going striaght through his center of mass, below his heart.
The second one is at an upward angle and moves from right to left through his chest, that one most likely did hit his heart.
So that's 1 heart injury.
He didn't really win the boxing match if the opponent is still alive. It's more like he thinks he won, then gets sucker punched because he's an idiot.
That's why Supes beats Goku. He's an idiot.
Let's play politician again!
>Yeah that shows the center of the CHEST not BODY, Learn to read.
>Chest along with the rest of his body
So was the chest shot or not? You seem to have trouble being consistent with what you're saying.
It's in different directions, but they're still going at the center of the chest in one way or another.
>if he fought Superman he wouldn't be distracted
He consistently lets his mind wander though. Also, Supes takes initiative and lasers his heart.
I stand behind the body shot. It was not directed at his heart.
You seem to have trouble accepting the fact that his heart isn't a weak point.
Actually if you think about it that's pretty fucking retarded to say. Getting hit in the heart will kill most people.
You have to remember Goku doesn't fight to kill, and odds are Superman wouldn't either. Seriously what in your mind makes you think that Superman will go for laser to the heart? In character he wouldn't.
Goku confirmed to be the Gladiator.
>Never in an active fight.
He was in the middle of the fight when he was shot or blindsided all those times.
>In battle? In a fight? Not outside one?
It wasn't outside the battle that he got shot by Piccolo, neck chopped by Vegeta, and lasered by Frieza's henchmen.
>You have to remember Goku doesn't fight to kill, and odds are Superman wouldn't either.
Goku survived that laser so Superman will laser his heart to incapacitate him. That's the perfect scenario for Supes.
Yes, they're literally manchildren while most manga are actually trying to create something artistic, whether or not people think it's good art or not.
Comic books and their culture and dead from the inside out.
>I'm not wrong there. and you know I'm not.
If you're not wrong here >>133954839, then you're saying that Goku wasn't shot in the heart at all?
Manga and anime proves you wrong, dude.
>implying Superman would know to hit ihs heart.
>implying the laser would work, after it's been discussed you can't prove it'll get through Goku's defenses
>implying Goku would even drop his guard, even though he sometimes does he doesn't always, didn't against Cell, Freeza in the first fight, Buu
Piccolo was down and thought to be defeated, Vegeta agreed to call off the fight so they could battle Majin Buu, Freeza wasn't strong enough to do any damage to Goku so he had no reason to stay powered up at those points. If you're gonna debate about these things at least get a clue and read/watch Dragonball.
Tell me where your heart is, is it in the Dead center of your body? No, it's between your pecs.
Tell me, is your heart Symmetrical? No, it tilts to the left. So I'm right.
And the first shot by piccolo was NOT directed at his heart.
>Piccolo was down and thought to be defeated, Vegeta agreed to call off the fight so they could battle Majin Buu, Freeza wasn't strong enough
In short, loads of excuses for the fact that Goku lowers his guard often in battle, which allows Supes to laser his heart.
Or Supes simply lasers his heart as soon as the fight starts before Goku grunts and groans like he's taking a deuce to go SSJ1.
>Supes lasers Goku's heart.
Might as well says Goku blasts him to shit instead of knocking him out and waiting for him to get up.
get out faggot, you don't even understand the characters you're arguing for.
>Supes lasering his heart immediately
Do you even know the characters you are talking about? He wouldn't use that power immediately even against someone like Doomsday or Darkseid
>In short, loads of excuses for the fact that Goku lowers his guard often in battle, which allows Supes to laser his heart.
That's not a counterargument
>Or Supes simply lasers his heart as soon as the fight starts before Goku grunts and groans like he's taking a deuce to go SSJ1.
He can power up in an instant and get his defenses up, and there is no reason he wouldn't be on his guard when he knows he is going to fight.
>Much more powerful
Then how come he survived so long? Sure he was stronger but MUCH stronger? no.
If anything the most you can say is Goku was only half those shock waves. So now he has to punch twice.
>Looks like it's missing his heart
The shot was right in the center of his chest plus even when it was censored it was still in the middle of his chest.
>Then how come he survived so long?
Because Beerus was holding back and wasn't fighting seriously. This was stated several times by several characters. It's like you don't even watch the anime you're talking about.
Goku's punches were nullifying most of the energy in those clashes though, the residual energy of Bills would have destroyed the universe if he hadn't managed to nullify it all at once.
Until Beerus states he wasn't holding back.
It's like you didn't even watch it.
He said he'd rather use 100% than lose.
And even if he didn't use 100%, goku SURVIVED. His punches clashed PERFECTLY with his, meaning he SURVIVED the energy which could threaten the universe. Which means he was outputting JUST AS MUCH to counter it.
You're only going in circles at this point and you have shown no counter-arguments.
All you can do is to pretend superman wins and post witty replies to try and get a rise out of people.
>Beerus uses full power
Like I said. Beerus was stronger than Goku. Significantly so. There is a reason Beerus won the fight without so much as a scratch while Goku got his shit wrecked.
Keep moving the goalposts.
It doesn't really make a difference though, At the level Bills was fighting he was releasing universe-destroying energy and Goku managed to match it even if he eventually ended being defeated.
If anything the great difference in power shows that Bills is beyond simple universe busting.
When did I ever state Goku won?
Oh wait, I didn't. I simply stated he SURVIVED. That his punches clashed perfectly with Beerus showing that his output of energy could match his.
Why is it only one or the other? He can be harmed, just plenty less due to Ki. He's not invincible but is very strong. Something that otherwise wouldn't have bothered him now does due to his Ki being down.
>Goku managed to match it even if he eventually ended being defeated.
He didn't really "match it' if he ended up overpowered.
>When did I ever state Goku won?
>Oh wait, I didn't. I simply stated he SURVIVED.
That has about as much value as Ronda Rousey "surviving" her match with Holly Holm.
Just skipped through episode 14.
Beerus specifically states after the fight is over "you almost made me use all of my power" and then then he even whispers "just between us, I almost regretted seeking you out".
This is before he proceeds to flick Goku in the head and knock him the fuck out.
>Why is it only one or the other? He can be harmed, just plenty less due to Ki.
It matters because Superman is invulnerable to most anything save for magic and Kryptonite.
There's nothing Goku has by himself that Superman can't counter with his fatal flaw, a laser to the heart.