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As "Geek" Culture Assimilates, "Otaku" Remains

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>“Geek” is now “mainstream.” Several of the most successful movies in the world and most popular shows on television are adaptations of comic books and SF novels. Multiple sitcoms, dramas, and unscripted “reality” programs feature characters with “geek” interests that aren’t belittled for it. Bars are springing up across the nation with environments conducive to what was once considered children’s pursuits: gaming—tabletop, card, board, video, and pinball—cartoons, comics, and so on. Several of the top circulated newspapers in the country now feature dedicated sections for covering comics and the latest developments pertaining to superheroes. Dedicated websites devoted to “all things geek culture” proliferate, as do specialized retailers.

>There’s just one catch: “anime” and “manga” don’t count as part of any of that, and the people who like them don’t count either unless they happen to also like something else that already DOES count. In the convergent harmony of modern geekdom, “anime and manga” is the “rap and country” part of “I like all music except rap and country.”
http://otakuusamagazine.com/Anime/News1/As-Geek-Culture-Assimilates-Otaku-Remain-Outcasts-7080.aspx

What do you guys think? Should anime fandom be brought into the forefront among other, geeky fandoms?
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>>133878959
>Should anime fandom be brought into the forefront among other, geeky fandoms?
Anime would have to turn to shit before that happened.
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>>133878959
No.
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>>133879012
Anon, I.... I have some very sad news to tell you.
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I kept reading "Geek" as "Greek". I was very confused.
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They're already banning muh lolis and muh incest. Normalfags can suck a dick.
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>>133879130
NORMIES GET OUT
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>Implying I want retarded as fuck SJWs coming in and ruining my hobby

Please, i'd rather continue being an outcast than have some retarded cunt tell me why anime/manga is sexist.

I mean, do we seriously want someone like pic related coming into our hobby and calling us terrorists/rapists.
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>>133878959
But anime is assimilating to normalfags too, so you are wrong.
>>133879130
This, really. Lolicon was once strong in anime. Today? It's dead.
>>
No.

There's already mainstream shit like SnK, OPM, Tokyo Ghoul, etc.
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>>133878959
>What do you guys think? Should anime fandom be brought into the forefront among other, geeky fandoms?
No, i like my otaku pandering.
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>>133879223
I don't think you have to worry about SJWs ever having a really affecting anything. See:

>One of the key discourses in geek media concerns matters of representation, such as the desire for more women and minorities in roles of significance both in stories and on the creative side.

This has to do -- with American media. Yes there are companies like Nintendo now changing shit for a western audience, but their original Japanese releases stay the same. Worst SJWs can get with anime is some 4kids-like bullshit, or Funimation adding GG to dubs. The source material isn't changing and there's nothing they can do about it. That's also probably why it's unlikely anime will ever truly be accepted like these other mediums that can be shifted and molded by the western vocal minority.
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No, because these people making geek culture mainstream are fucking cancer. They force geeky, weird people into a box of containment a long time ago, but as time goes on they try taking the box back, but they certainly won't let them out. They try to have their cake and eat it, it doesn't fucking work like that.

>>133879223
I was just about to mention that cunt. I seriously don't know how she's a function organism
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>>133879350
It's true that for a lolicon, junior idols are more of an option than anime that refuses to sexualize lolis.
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>>133879350
Shit makes me laugh when people call the sexualization of non-existent anime girls "creepy" while the sexualization of actual 3D girls goes on everyday and is okay.
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pfft, lots of people watch anime, we are just the biggest faggots about it
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>>133879480
It is creepier to sexualaize something that doesn't exist, as opposed to something that does exist though.
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You mean kowtow to feminists and cultural marxists? Negro please.
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>>133878959
>>133878959
Looking at what happened with the vidya industry
Jesus I hope not

Anime and manga have the advantage of not even being western
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>>133879599
>cancer patient
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>>133878959
>Caring what normalfags think
Once you start doing this, it's just a short slide down to Five Guys Burgers and Fries and the death of the fandom as a whole. I'm not a hipster; I don't wear fedoras, eat kale, or watch student art films. But I don't want or need some generic nobody whom I've never met or know anything about to approve of my hobby and interests. Once you start trying to win that approval, you start losing control of your hobby because you have to cut away anything undesirable to the masses.
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Why normies always steal everything we like?
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>>133879882
Because you refuse to fight. It's a side effect from having no pride.
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>>133879876
4 more years till 2020, anon.
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>>133879882
Because they always want to find a new way to be "different"
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>>133879882
No one cares about reading.
Videogames were always popular, despite what /v/ wants to believe. Look at how much psx sold.
Anime are not as popular as they were in the 90s.

Unless you are referring to some /tg/ hobby, what are 'normies' stealing?
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>>133879223
Like anyone in the business of anime and manga would give a fuck about what some dumb bitch with a Twitter account thinks about their medium

Unlike video game companies they know who their monetary supporting fan base is and it's not anyone beyond the shore of Japan
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>>133880043
Tabletop roleplaying games. Just look at the backlash at Tentacle Bento. They got kicked off of Kickstarter because of it.
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>>133878959
NO
NORMIES GET OUT
>>
Oh, and by the way,
>Multiple sitcoms, dramas, and unscripted “reality” programs feature characters with “geek” interests that aren’t belittled for it means nothing,
Is nothing new.

>>133880083
That's not stealing, that's "normal" censorship. Always been there, always will be.
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>>133878959
Don't worry, it's coming. I live in a pretty "hip" part of Atlanta and the acceptance of wild otaku-like anime fandom is growing with every year. You'll be seeing Big Bang Theory type shows centered around anime soon enough.
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>>133879223
>>133880062
She's right though, if there wasn't this silly idea that guys need to be always strong and manly those people with problems could look for help instead of having to live for an ideal they can't reach.
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>>133880043
>ideogames were always popular, despite what /v/ wants to believe. Look at how much psx sold.
Anime are not as popular as they were in the 90s.

While video games were not niche or obscure before you can't deny that they're more popular than they have ever been.
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>>133878959
>As "Geek" Culture Assimilates, "Otaku" Remains Outcasts
Good

Who cares about normalfags.
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>>133879584
But sexualizing something that does exist means treating a living thing like an object. Whereas sexualizing something that doesn't exist means treating an object like an object. How is that creepier?
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>>133878959
>Should anime fandom be brought into the forefront among other, geeky fandoms?
No, /a/ already has enough normies and Tumblrinas as it is.
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>>133880171
Honestly it has more to do with the loss of traditional communities in the west in exchange for an alienating consumer culture
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>>133878959
While otaku culture isn't mainstream, there are anime that have broke out into mainstream popularity. Hell they even sell Madoka shirts at hot topic now.
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I don't see what difference it makes. So what anime is getting popular? It's Japanese and the west has no bearing on it.

I think at a certain point some of you need to just admit that you like the idea of this being a sekret club.
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>>133880270
Are there commercials during Monday Night Football for Madoka like there are for Star Wars or Game of Thrones?
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>>133880188
No, I can deny it. PS2 sold 2 times was PS3 sold, Nintendo DS sold 3 times what 3DS sold, the console that sold more than 100 milion units were all released before 2006 and 2006 one (Wii) is the one that sold less.
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>>133880304
This doesn't mean gaming's popularity is declining though. The hardware branch of gaming as we know it is declining. People still very much want to play video games in some form.
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>>133880304
>still looking at video games as "consoles" and "handhelds"
My friend, the majority of "gamers" nowadays are females thanks to video games on cellphones and Facebook.

Video games are more popular than ever because they are more accessible than ever.
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>>133880352
gamer as a term really is dead
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>>133878959
It's because anime and manga are foreign. As long as it's made in Japan by Japanese people, it will be seen as foreign and out of place even among geeks. In America, you can like anything within entertainment and no one bats an eye until it's something normally consumed by non American audiences, especially non-western.
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It makes me sad to see how many people in this thread are using the term normie rather than normalfag. Are there really this many r9k crossborders here?
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>>133880352
>video games on cellphones and Facebook
But those aren't actually vidya gaems.
They are the Tamagachi of the 21st century.
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>>133880407
We've been under siege for a while, just go look at the other meta thread. These are troubling times.
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>>133880350
I am not saying the popularity is declining, I am saying that they were always (well, at least since gameboy) popular.

>>133880407
Threads were people complain about this sort of things are always filled with /r9k/ and /v/ trash.
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>>133880407

Well, masybe iit's because a normie =/= normalfag.
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>>133880291
Well comparing something to Star wars is a bit unfair since well its star wars. Also GoT is the most popular show on tv at the moment so thats also a bit unfair. Something doesn't have to be as big as Star wars to be considered mainstream.

Also I don't think anime as a whole is mainstream since the fandom is still looked down upon by most normalfags (not that I think thats a bad thing) But certain shows have made themselves pretty mainstream here ie Attack on titan SAO ect.
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>>133880431
I wouldn't call many things games.
Unfortunately my opinion is irrelevant and so is yours
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>>133880446
Normie is reddit for normalfag. Their tender, SJW eye couldn't stand seeing the word -fag in writing.
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>>133880407

Normalfag is overused, normie is catchier and more effective.
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>>133879223

SJWs don't have half as much power over the gaming industry as you seem to think they do. The industry is mostly just giving them lip service.

Keep fighting them and pointing out the seemingly endless number of holes in feminism's arguments. The feminists will do the rest for you by making assholes out of themselves in public. Most people shake their heads at the sheer ridiculousness of it when you blow away the smoke and show them what SJWs actually are. DON'T get discouraged and silently let them have their narrative. From an outsider's point of view, the main gaming consumer base belonging to this misogynerd culture who blindly bullies any and all women who come anywhere near their hobby doesn't seem unlikely. They need to hear what's actually going on, as well as who the real bullies are. If everyone does their part, the SJWs are facing a battle that might see them go from irrelevant to the catalyst for the downfall of feminism in favor of true egalitarianism.

It sounds like comics might be another story, but the fight is the same. Their trains of thought are selfish, childish, hypocritical, and driven by bigotry. Keep revealing their behavior as a mad grab for power and privilege, having nothing to do with equality. So long as the anti-SJWs don't give up, the SJWs are bound to lose in the end.

BTW, read up on the kafkatrap, which is a favorite tool of feminists, demonstrating just how twisted the movement has become:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2122

Anime, though, isn't really vulnerable, because it's ultimately made by the Japanese for the Japanese, and the Japanese don't give a fuck about this outrage culture where people are going around looking to construe sexism and racism from everything.
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>>133880461
>mainstream
Known to people is different from mainstream, something like Dragonball in Southern America is mainstream.
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>>133880461
>Attack on Titan
>SAO
Both only show on a late night cable channel and don't have advertisements for them across other networks. They also garner a fraction of the views of shows like The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones.
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>>133880499
Most people don't give a shit, they buy the next CoD/FIFA and that's how much they care about the whole industry.
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I think it's dependent mostly on pop culture icons and what those individuals (singers, actors, etc.) are into. We haven't seen people from the 90s (which is arguably when anime really caught it's footing in the West) get into positions where they could be influential yet.

The interests of the pop start always influences a generalization. A perfect example is Kanye. Before people hated him he was literally the most relevant pop star for a good 2-3 years. He tweeted about anime and used it in his work. You could see the shift happen where people started to become more interested in the medium on a wider scale.

So give it time. Kids fro the 90s are 25 and younger. When they're 30 I guarantee we'll see another surge in acceptance. Whether this is good or bad, you be the judge.
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>>133880267
That's a good point, but that begs the question of why women don't seem to break in the same way and instead choose other methods of self-destruction. I think if we, as a society, confront the masculine ideals of "unfeeling strength" and continue the trend of normalizing the concept of treatment for mental health issues, it could go a long way towards reducing the frequency of these explosive incidents and improve the quality of life for men and women alike. Of course, this is ignoring the elephant in the room that is, as your said, our alienating consumerist culture. But /a/ is not the appropriate place to have this discussion.
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>>133880512
How is attack on titan not mainstream? Just because its not as popular as something like GoT or TWD doesn't mean its not. I see a ton of attack on titan merchendise at walmart all the time and we even sell the merchandise at my work as well. I would consider that mainstream.
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>>133880564
>it's footing in the West
In America. France and Italy started with mecha in the 70s and Souther America in the 80s.
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>>133880595
Where do you see the merchandise? Honestly asking; I haven't gone into a Wal-Mart in years.
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>>133880377
You do realize Gamers are dead, right?
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>>133880634
Its mostly posters that I've seen at walmart along with pop figures. So yeah next time you go in a walmart and look at the posters or the pop figures your're bound to see some attack on titan stuff.
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As a SEAfag, anyone else think that it's more accepted here than in the West?
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>>133880494
At making yourself look like a complete fucking moron, maybe.
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>>133879223
It is the contrary really. Those boys had no positive male identity, and that hurt them in the long run.
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>>133880676
Yes, we're all aware that you guys have latched on to Japan and it's culture because you guys have none of your own, you're two feet away from them, and you guys have been getting fucked by them for a while.
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>>133880564
I think the influence from people like that is always going to be very low level, though. I mean, Kanye West's understanding of anime boils down to Ghibli and maybe ten sci-fi movies from twenty years ago. It's not even shounenshitter level, it's "watched dubs that aired in American theaters" level.
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>>133880799
This, if popular people will talk or mention anime it will always be the first layer, either because it's what they watch or because they can't really show they are watching Precure.
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>>133880171
>an ideal they can't reach
Maybe if they were stronger they could reach it. Failure to match the masculine ideal is directly detrimental to the person regardless if they want it or not. "Toxic Masculinity" has become shorthand for "Ever holding yourself to a higher standard".

Every man SHOULD be an island, or at least capable of being one. Every person in general should be able to stand on their own two feet. To take this away is just another way of forcing humans to rely on the collective for easier control by any given ideologue.
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>>133880959
>if they were stronger
But they are not strong enough.

>Failure to match the masculine ideal is directly detrimental to the person regardless if they want it or not
Says who, /pol/?

>"Toxic Masculinity" has become shorthand for "Ever holding yourself to a higher standard".
No, it's shorthand for holding yourself to a higher standard you can't reach and you suffer by result.

>To take this away is just another way of forcing humans to rely on the collective for easier control by any given ideologue.
Offering help is not taking away or forcing.

You are a perfect example of said stupid masculinity, there is nothing stupid or weak in being helped. Christ look at /r9k/, do you really think they are better without help?
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>>133880959
I disagree. There's a difference between self-sufficiency and just plain stupidity. Every man has a hard time in his life, and sometimes it takes more courage to swallow your pride and ask for help than to insist on going it alone and keep sinking in the mud.
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>>133881066
>says who, /pol/
At what point does self sufficiency become detrimental? There is no point at which a group functions better than a single person towards his or her goal. Groups are inherently less efficient.
>you can't reach
Try harder and maybe you can. Most "Male" ideals aren't some magical unobtainable holy grail.
>offering help is not taking away or forcing
But the inability to function without help is detrimental to everyone around you as well as yourself. To say that at least attempting to be self sufficient at all times is "bad" is fucking stupid.
>r9k
r9k IS help, it's a bunch of whinging children feeling sorry together and getting worthless "support" from other whinging children. /r9k/ is totally devoid of "toxic masculinity", because it's almost completely devoid of what we would refer to as "masculinity" in general.

I say again, everyone should be at least capable of being an island, and "Toxic masculinity" is simply the drive to be good. If you want to call "Don't cook or clean or do WOMANS WORK" toxic masculinity I will agree, that shit's all necessary for living and any person should at least be passable skilled in those tasks, but calling the determination to be self sufficient toxic is silly.
>>133881069
But those that are able to struggle out of the mud on their own are always better off at the end than those who are helped out. They now have the knowledge and strength to get them out of future shitty situations, instead of having to rely on others which is, as stated above, a less efficient and more generally detrimental situation than self reliance. Yes, many people fail. But when has the universe EVER been kind to subpar individuals? Why help those that can't help themselves? It just creates a drain on the entire system, at least until they can steady themselves.
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>>133881262
To clarify, no point at which a group functions better within the standard limits of human ability. Research groups and all that can reach a higher standard than is possible with a single individual, but obviously if there was a single individual capable of all those tasks they would be better suited than the group
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>>133881262
>At what point does self sufficiency become detrimental?
At the point when you can't handle being self sufficient.

>Try harder and maybe you can
But they try, and try. They don't understand what they do wrong.

>/r9k/ is help
It's a echo chamber of people suffering from the toxic masculinity. /a/ that gives up on girls is a much better than help than the hate-from-love for society and normal people /r9k/ is.

> inability to function without help
Help doesn't have to last forever. And in no way help is detrimental, it's the fucking purpose of being a society.
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>>133881262
I disagree. Helping a man out does not mean you have to infantilize him. Even the most capable men in the world sometimes fall into dark situations, and I don't think they're any less for having accepted help. No man is an island, and I don't see the problem with forming bonds of community. We're at a fundamental impasse.
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>>133881394
I suppose what I'm getting at is bonds are fine, but you should never stop striving for self-sufficiency or else you just become a very weak person. To villainize the pursuit of strength is something only very very weak willed people do.
>>133881360
>at the point where you can't handle it
If that point is within common human ability, your inability to handle it is YOUR problem. YOU are being a detriment.
>they try and try but they don't understand
I don't see what situation this could apply to. How can you repeatedly fuck up and then actually say "I don't know what I'm doing wrong", by the third time you should at least be able to make an educated guess.
>it's an echo chamber
Yes, it's a support group. Very few people in /r9k/ are in the least bit self sufficient. It's a net of failures that have stopped trying to not fail. "Toxic masculinity" didn't get them here, their basic failures as humans did. Whether or not the ideal exists doesn't change the fact that these are fundamentally weak people.
>help doesn't have to last forever
But the inability to function WITHOUT help is what happens when you stop trying to be self-sufficient in any given area.
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>>133880959
Not gonna lie, I'm getting tired of being an island, it's exhausting
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>>133881557
I'm off to bed, and I actually regret it because I like this conversation with both of you. Have a good rest of your whatever day it is for you.
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>>133881591
Is there a single thing worth doing that ISN'T exhausting?
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>>133881557
Do you believe that a human being's worth is predetermined? I believe worth is cultivated over the course of a lifetime. If you lend a helping hand to a man who cannot overcome his current obstacle, he can turn around and become a pillar of strength later in life so long as you don't give up on him.

Just because someone is having trouble now, doesn't mean they can't be guided to a place of inner strength. In the future, I hope you can look at other people and yourself with more kindness and acceptance. I know I won't be able to change your mind today, but please consider it.

>>133881598
>>133881557
Goodnight, you guys. I had lots of fun talking with you.
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>>133881635
At the very least you'd think it'd be enjoyable. Some of the time. 10% at least. I'm at a point, nothing is really sad anymore. Just tiring and joyless. And yet I do things hoping maybe I will one day give a shit again
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>>133878959
They're forgetting that most of those "geeky" things are done by posers who want to be hip and trendy. Geek becoming mainstream was almost as bad as video games becoming mainstream.
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>>133878959
"Geek" culture going mainstream turned comics, cartoons, video games, and scifi into SJW garbage. Not to mention all the retards that jumped into "geek" culture because of shit like Big Bang Theory are poser faggots. Everyone I've ever known that enjoyed shit like that was a normalfag of the highest order.
Westerners have little to no influence on otaku culture, but if it ever did it would be destroyed right then and there.
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>>133882032
Video games have been mainstream since before most people on this board were even born.
>>
Otaku is for strict Japanese reference. It's as dumb as saying there are "American katana". Glad this cancer is on autosage.
>>
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>>133880499
>SJWs don't have half as much power over the gaming industry as you seem to think they do.

Keep telling yourself that. They're even in localization companies, so unless you know moon you can enjoy rewritten scrips and cut content.
>>
>>133879749
Western "anime" soon, fellow stalker.
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>>133882116
Not really. The industry was growing but it didn't go "mainstream" until the last console generation and online FPS games took off outside of PC gaming circles.
>>
>>133882116
Among children, yes.
Among adults, see >>133882240
>>
>>133882265
The adults who play video games today are children who played video games 10-20 years ago. And adults who played video games in the 90s were children who played video games in the 80s and 70s (arcades, etc.). Just because it seems to be more prominent in pop culture today doesn't mean video games were in any way obscure or nerdy since like the early 80s at least. /v/'s 2007 meme is as wrong and cringe inducing as that godawful "first generation to raised online" image and its /pol/ edit.

>>133882240
>>133880043
>>133880304
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_million-selling_game_consoles#All_game_consoles
>>
>>133882179
>Western "anime"
You mean Avatar?
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