Why can I not get into this series? Am I going in with the

Never go in with expectations for anything.

You'll be a happier person.

>>133562231
This.

>>133562231
I mean, I don't know what kind of anime this is. I went in expecting a basic, enjoyable Ecchi show but it's just confusing. Don't get me wrong there's still ecchi.

just expect to see naked loli and you wont be disappointed

>>133561903
decide what the MC's deal is for yourself. we can't agree anyway.

>>133562274
it's a pretty well written novel hidden in an ecchi show, yeah. the author's a bit of an asshole. still pretty good writing if you pay attention though.

>>133562515
How is he an asshole?

>>133562559
he says he writes it all as a hobby and that even he doesn't take any of it too seriously, but then he writes about all the heavy shit that he's written about, playing it off with ecchi.

>>133561903
The stories are well written, the comedy is hit and miss. The characters are great for one shots but they either lose their gimmick free pass they had during their story or develop into horrible wastes of time as things go on. I watched nise bake, a bit of the CAT ova tried to escape cat and went for season 2 but dropped it in the first 30 seconds of Cat narrating and saying the story is about her and growing to not like her.

Lots of fun narrative, fun quirky art potential but let down by ass backwards character decisions. Fuck Cat and fuck Crab. One is boring the other is tiresome.

Don't let the hype sway you. If you don't like it, run now. It only gets worse.

>>133561903
It's just waifufaggots pretending this is the best thing since sliced bread.

>>133562608
How is that being an asshole? If anything, he's an asshole for some of the almost victim-blaming attitudes and themes in his writing, or his general pompousness. I still like his writing, though.

>>133562636
I'll admit it, the reason I want to get into this is because of the girls.

>>133562618
>says that the characters develop poorly
>hasn't even watched through season two
You're a retard. The characters are far better in season two than in Bake.

>>133562636
>best thing since sliced bread
But it is.

>>133562676
>or his general pompousness.
that's what I was getting at.
>I still like his writing, though.
so do I.
while he is at least partially projecting, calling it victim-blaming is a disservice. what happened isn't ever their own fault, it's just they're terrible at dealing with it.

>>133562676
>victim-blaming attitudes and themes in his writing
>>>/t/umblr
Victim blaming isn't a thing. Victims hold responsibility for what happens to them just the same as irresponsibly training and dog and getting bitten.
Fun fact: DV victims will be attracted to further DV relationships or rekindle DV patterns.
People who are afraid of random crime and far more likely to experience it as well.
Like it or lump it people contribute to their own outcomes in life. 'Victim blaming' is some sad cunt self pity attempt. Victims deserve sympathy and culprits deserve justice but victims are more often than not in some ways responsible.

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>>133562618
>criticizes how the characters develop
>skips the most important part of the character development in the whole series

>>133562828
Saying "her parents were justified for abusing her because she was too smart" is downright retarded. Now fuck off.

>>133561903
You're not used to good writing, unfortunately.

>>133562864
>implying it's justified watching over ten hours of anime just to see characters become tolerable
>i-it gets better trust me
Crab's whole thing got old fast and while Cat was interesting her character got boiled down to 'know what I know' with lightning precision. Further rather than make Cat's story interesting the just keep rehashing and flashing back to it summarising it before you're even expected to watch the damn OVA. What's the fucking point? I know what's going to happen. I know how people feel about. Hell by the time you're up to it you've already seen half the scenes. What a joke.

>>133561903
its whole show is based upon world play in a language you don't
the only reason people like it is for the fan service

>>133562897
they weren't justified, but it was their rationale. It's thin justification, but her parents aren't exactly supposed to be saints. they let her sleep in the hallway because she didn't care, for god's sake.

>>133562897
All you said was victim blaming m8. Not who or why. Plenty of characters are punished narratively for their flaws or hubris or do they not count because you don't care?
Besides it's only got victim blaming themes if the narrative supports or pervades it chuckle fuck. Merely presenting a broken relationship does not make it victim blaming.

>>133563053
Yes, but Oshino said outright that it's completely understandable that they'd act that way, that she was at fault for being too "perfect." Araragi doesn't even properly disagree with it; he just tells Oshino not to speak ill of Hanekawa.

Nisio clearly agrees with that line of thought at least a little bit.

It's DEEP and pandering.

>>133563083
see >>133563143

Also,
>Plenty of characters are punished narratively for their flaws or hubris or do they not count because you don't care?
What does that have to do with victim-blaming? They're not the victims in that case.

>>133563143
Oshino's big deal is seeing things from both sides. It's only natural he'd put the side that wasn't there to explain the reaction. It doesn't mean Nisio thinks it was justified.

>>133563143
>literally can't empathise with or understand people despite them having done the wrong thing
Are you sociopathic or autistic.

>>133563143
It's really just straight up hubris. karma rather than logic.

it's understandable that they could, not that they would. seeing it in terms of how much to "blame" the victim is disingenuous.

>>133563239
>They're not the victims in that case.
Being obnoxious is a flaw. Being perfect is obnoxious to most if not all humans. By your own logic she isn't a victim.
I would laugh but this is sad.

>>133563255
Oshino already doesn't like Hanekawa and calls her disgusting.

>>133563297
What?

>>133563270
Double what?

>>133563324
You have a problem if you think that being overly tolerant is something worth being abused for.

>>133563324
Someone can be a victim of some things while still being an instigator of other conflicts. In the Nadeko Medusa arc we are shown that very clearly. Nadeko was a victim of the snake curse, but also became an instigator of conflict and the aggressor.

okay, I'll rephrase.

THIS is why he's an asshole. this argument right here.

>>133563610
>lack of human empathy in his readers is now the authors responsibility
Jej

>>133563657
How is saying that "she was too perfect" isn't a good reason to abuse someone? No one is saying that her parents don't have feelings. But they are not justified, and Oshino tries to argue that they are justified, and Araragi doesn't entirely disagree.

>>133563686
Are you actually autistic? He is being the devil's advocate. He is looking at things from her parent's perspective to explain things better.

>>133563942
Except that isn't how it was presented. Like I said, Araragi can't disagree. He thinks it's justified. To begin with, Oshino has always said that Hanekawa gives him the hives, so he basically agrees with their point of view.

>>133563942
He really is, or at the very least lacks certain empathic traits. Leave him alone. This is getting weird and sad.

At least he can be sympathetic.

>>133564018
>>133563942
Are you the ones who are autistic, or perhaps underage? It's like you can't understand a word I'm saying. Just because someone presents a point of view in fiction doesn't mean they agree with it, but with certain context clues, you can tell whether they do.

>>133563657
What I mean is, he writes things without thinking about it as hard as the fanbase does.

whatever logic he's using, it must be pretty obvious to japan. that's the vibe I got.

I went in with no expectations and found art.

>>133564290
>it must be pretty obvious to japan
How do you mean?

>>133563232
This.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it "deep", but it does have themes and occasionally morals to its stories.

>>133564329
How it seems to me is, japan just generally thinks about things differently. In this case, it seems like half of the argument has already been had behind the scenes, as something japan is already familiar with to some degree.

>>133563942
>>133564018
ITT: autists calling others autistic

>>133564446
It isn't that hard to understand collectivist thinking brus at least in broad strokes of logic like this.

>>133564446
That's probably true. As the person who was arguing that some of Nisio's attitudes can come off as asshole-ish, I was mostly talking from a western standpoint. In Japan, there's a lot of emphasis on things like "reading the mood," where you will basically be shunned if you can't fit in. So in that culture, it really would be Hanekawa's fault for sticking out like a sore thumb.

Of course, that's not going to be easy to swallow for all westerners regardless.

>>133563043
this is literally the only "true" response, outside of the "only watch it for the fanservice"

literally nothing happens in this show, but people still believe, after 70+ episodes, that this show is written by a master of literature. the reality of this should've been pretty obvious after Hana and Tsuki, which were complete garbage.

people seem to be lured by the "deep dialogue" it has. everyone who watches it says it has great writing, but all it really has is philosophical dialogue that at its core has no actual meaning.

in the end, the only thing i can credit him for is designing entertaining characters, but outside of that, the story is almost nonexistent, and all the messages i could "find" in this through its nonsensical, mind-boggling words i could see all in an episode of naruto.

tl;dr this series is written for retards and snail is best

>>133561903
Snake>Crab=Cat>Bat>Snail>Monkey

>>133564661
You are completely retarded. It's not a masterpiece and there are plenty of flaws in Nisio's writing, but it has obvious themes and character development. It's not "mindless entertainment," unless the person watching it is also mindless.

>>133564379
It's DEEP, not deep.

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The only thing that turns me off is how "odd" everyone acts.
I mean I get most of them have the whole oddities thing going on but sometimes the characters just don't act like actual human beings and I'm left wondering if I'm suppose to not be taking it seriously or if the author just has a skewed perception on how people act.

>>133564850
That's the other thing. Nisio really likes playing with the comedy vs farce dynamic.

>>133564850
Maybe it's just shaft making characters do stupid things just so anything happens on the screen while they have their conversations

well this was a fairly productive thread.

Monkey a best!

also it takes a bit off getting used to

>>133564661
>a master of literature
I never see anyone say this. It's fun talks with good presentation and top-tier girls.

>>133566628
>fun talks
no its pretentious dialogue and gibberish set to cool background art
the last arc was literally a girl blaming all of her life problems on this guy because the guy didn't pick up on the subtle hints of domestic violence during their math lessons

the first episode was the protag explaining how he lost hope on all of humanity and that he didn't need friends because the teacher made the math test easy.
all of the problems these characters face is just everyone having autism and not being able to communicate or have rational thoughts.

>>133562515
> it's a pretty well written novel hidden in an ecchi show
> hidden in an ecchi show
> hidden
You know full well that it's nothing but porn pretending to be deep. Stop being so insecure as to eat postmodernist shit aimed at self-conscious teens.

>>133563686
>I disagree with the main character's opinions, therefore the author is an asshole

>>133567817
it's almost like you haven't read the thread.

>>133561903

Shinobu is the best part.

>>133567945
I did read the thread, and based on the asinine nonsense isinfags wrote in defence, it seems that either they are particularly awful at rationalisations, or Bakeshit is just liked by schizophrenics and psychopaths.

Everyone knows it's trite pretentious bullshit either way.

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>>133561903
I got into it only when Sawarineko appeared and Lolli-vampire started to talk. After that characters developments followed and characterization deepened. I was bored and didn't really liked the girls at first but as they grow out of simple archetypes and became more complex I start to enjoy watching this series.

>>133564559
You do know that "reading the mood" simply means not being autismal and reading the subtext? For fuck's sake, you Yanks are simply incapable of subtlety, which is nobody's problem but yours. Japan isn't filled with aliens and there is no more prodding to not differ from one's peers than on the rest of the planet. I fucking swear, Yanks just seek excuses to be xenophobic about anything and everything that doesn't play rugby as a national sport.

>>133567603
>the last arc was literally a girl blaming all of her life problems on this guy because the guy didn't pick up on the subtle hints
It was more a girl blaming a guy and her parents for her shitty life so she wouldn't blame herself like her parents brainwashed her to do, she even acknowledged it wasn't his fault.

It's shit pretending to be deep.

>>133568675
it's deep pretending to be shit.

What arcs will be covered in Monogatari S3? Will we get through Ougi Dark in just 26 eps?

>>133568405
Fuck off. As the person you're responding to, I actually lived in Japan. It's much, much more conformist.

>>133562618
you literally stopped at the best and most important season

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>>133570100
> I actually lived in Japan
For how long? Three weeks and without speaking the language? I lived in Japan for two years and I have no idea what kind of autismal cunt one needs to be to fail to adjust to the country and see that it's inhabited by people just like everywhere else. You fucking Yanks suffer from ridiculous entitlement issues and get triggered every fucking time things don't go the way you are used for them to go, and this is nobody's problem but yours and yours only.

>>133570835
>going home after work is seen as lazy
>asking direct questions is impolite
Visual novels don't count as living in Japan.

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>>133571162
So you did live there for only three weeks, with most of what you claim to know being from various entitled expat sites. Good to know.

>>133571295
That guy wasn't me, but he's right. I lived there for a year, and I'm positive I'm more fluent than you are. I loved it there, but you're retarded if you don't think there are extremely different cultural expectations.