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>be Kokuto >beta male >see trap >fall in love >only

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>be Kokuto
>beta male
>see trap
>fall in love
>only show my love in the last movie
>all other movies are fillers
>best romance

Why is KnK so shit and not deep?
>>
Posting superior Shiki.
>>
>be Kokuto
>beta male
Kokuto is many strange things but beta isn't one of them

>only show my love in the last movie
His love for her was always there, just not in your face

By the way which movie is your pic from?
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>>133390197
>only show my love in the last movie
Now that's just bullshit, dude.
>>
>>133390661
From Mirai Fukuin
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>>133390661
Mirai Fukuin.
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>>133390758
>>133390762
Thanks it's been so long
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Shiku a cute! CUTE!
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Explain to me why you people like KnK so much as to call it a masterpiece.
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>>133390197
This is just lazy, OP. Try harder next time.
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>>133390846
I apologize.
>>
I will admit there is a weird dissonance in this show where all of the characters act as completely unlike a human being as possible but I suppose that's the appeal.
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>>133390950
How so?
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>>133390830
What is the deal with Shiki and SHIKI? Is it the same reading for different kanji or something?
>>
>>133391189
Yeah, just like in Tsukihime.
>>
>>133391189
式 - Ryougi
織 - guy
>>
>>133390830
Intricately constructed narrative. Efficient characterization. Fantastic central protagonist. Strong romance underpinning every film. Soulwrenching finale. Thoughtful use of philosophy and psychology to highlight certain aspects of the story.
>>
>>133391334
You were doing so well until
>Thoughtful use of philosophy and psychology
Half the time it was unnecessary, it could have done more "show, not tell"
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>>133391462
>Half the time it was unnecessary

I disagree, and I also feel that Kara no Kyoukai is one of the few series that nails visual storytelling.

The taoist themes of duality are reflected in every nook and cranny of the films, right down to the character designs - as an example, take Shiki's design. Blue kimono (East) merges with a red kimono (West). The final scene in Paradox Spiral contrasts Shiki's white (Yin) with Araya's black (Yang).
>>
>>133391189

It's distinguishing between Shiki's split personalities.
>>
>>133391550
*a red jacket
>>
But Shirazumi wasn't even a trap in their highschool days. He just took a lot of marijuana he became a girl.
>>
Mikiya is a pure sex god compared to every other type-moon protagonist
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>>133391789
Lio's appearance shifted after being awakened to his Origin. Similar thing happened to EMIYA.

>>133391796
He really is perfect.
>>
>>133391816
Yeah bro I'm just kidding. Everybody knows if you took too much marijuana you will die.
>>
>>133391796
Kokutou a shit. Enjou was better than him and he was only there for one movie.
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>>133391872
>bro
I'm a girl
>>
>>133391334
>Strong romance underpinning every film.

This is what I don't understand about Garden of Sinners. Where on earth is the "romance"? Ryougi is a character so utterly devoid of personality that he remains just sitting looking bored and perfectly lucid while he's tripping on LSD. He and Shiki have utterly zero chemistry and it's just the usual same idiot anime protagonist rejecting obvious affection from the girls around him as in a thousand other anime. He has an autistic (literally autistic, not internet-autistic) inability to pick up on social cues from Shiki. His insistence that Shiki isn't a killer despite her repeated objections is more a projection of his preferences onto Shiki than an ability to accept Shiki for who she actually is, and his skulking around outside her mansion is more reproachful finger-wagging than confidence in his supposed beloved. He's so utterly intransigent that he callously threatens to cut off Shiki and abandon is she once slips below his Puritanical standards - and while I'm not expecting him to be cool with murder, I would think a man with a modicum of compassion (and who again, is not literally autistic) would understand the extenuating circumstances of ending the rampage of a killer who has butchered dozens of civilians.

Shiki and Ryougi are the most artificial couple with the most sterile romance in anime history. Even idiot harem leads have the excuse that their antics are meant to at least be nominally humorous, but the ever-so-solemn Garden of Sinners doesn't even have that excuse.
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>>133391796
Have you played Mahoyo yet, senpai?
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>Mobius Link takes place 10 years after Lio incident
>Mana is 10 years old
So did Kokuto and Shiki fug immediately after they got home in the seventh movie or what
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>>133391923
>face
>>
>>133391923

Not that anon, but how is it? I saw BL released 5 chapter translation but haven't got around to it yet.
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>>133391936
They hugged so hard Shiki became pregnant.
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>>133391936
>not assuming they did it while the credits rolled.
>>
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>>133391936
they fug constantly
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>>133391978
Panda link please, I haven't seen this one
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>>133391919
youre a faggot

>>>/out/
>>
>>133391920
Kokutou served as a focal point in Shiki's life and inner desire for a sense of normalcy, something that is ultimately fulfilled in the end when it finally came down to pushing her to the edge of her self-imposed mentality as a killer. Need something else beyond his connection to Shiki? How about providing a different moral compass to contrast against the pragmatic Touko, and the destructively impulsive Shiki? How about his ever-changing ability to adapt, his unrelenting conviction and kindness, all of which that helped in shaping many of various film protagonist's views (Shiki, Tomoe, Azaka) and greatly influenced a number of antagonist's mentality and eventual defeat (Kirie, Fujino, Lio)? Again, to dismiss Kokutou as nothing but a simple love interest is a bit misguided considering how he subtly (and even blatantly) played such a huge role throughout the entire series (further emphasized in the Epilogue when his very influence and existence was described as mending the destructible inevitability of Shiki's fate, hence why the Origin offered him the chance to regain his sight from his missing eye as a form of gift/thanksgiving)
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>>133390661
>Kokuto is many strange things but beta isn't one of them
Shiki basically invited him to fuck her and all he did was sleep.
Also eve Shiki says he's a whimp.
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>>133392011
is the official manga faggot
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>>133392070
>there's a manga
Fuck
Time to get reading
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>>133392011
Nigga it's official
https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=61131
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>>133391920
>. His insistence that Shiki isn't a killer despite her repeated objections is more a projection of his preferences onto Shiki than an ability to accept Shiki for who she actually is, and his skulking around outside her mansion is more reproachful finger-wagging than confidence in his supposed beloved.
Typical KnK hating douchebags who cannot pick up on simple visual cues.

Romance is irrelevant in this scenario; Kokuto saw an antisocial, depressed loner who needed saving. He didn't mindlessly sit outside her mansion - he packed and cared for his wellbeing, and obviously this pays off.

>He's so utterly intransigent that he callously threatens to cut off Shiki and abandon is she once slips below his Puritanical standards
Wait, you really think he gave a crap about Lio or morality? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Hint: This conflict was about Shiki not giving into her murderous instincts, not a scumbag being killed.
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>>133391936
Mana is Shiki and Lio's daughter
>>
>>133391958
It's really polished, compact, and well produced. The OST is mesmerizing and it's almost anime-like in the detail put into the visuals.

Not as big as F/SN or Tsukihime (it is the first of a planned trilogy, after all), but worth playing. The first 5 chapters are conclusive on their own so it's a fine place to stop.
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>>133392109
>not completely scanlated
>c.21 by JS Scans (831d ago)
What the fuck
>>
>>133391334
>Efficient characterization
>Strong romance underpinning every film.
The romance was the weakest point of the films, though. It basically consists of Touko explaining Shiki's character and thought process to Mikiya in which Shiki never has to actually talk to Mikiya about how she feels or anything because there's Touko for that shit. Hell, it seems Touko knows far more about Shiki than Mikiya does.

Also that takes another problem: Shiki barely talks about her feelings or anything about herself because Touko becomes Nasu's mouthpiece to explain her so Shiki will never have to, you know, talk about herself in more than cryptic phrases.

This was also the same issue with the romance in Fate/Stay Night: Nasu will use ANY plot device so that characters find out about each other's past without actually talking it out, like any believable relationship does.

>Thoughtful use of philosophy and psychology to highlight certain aspects of the story.
Using verbosity to explain otherwise simple storylines doesn't equal this.
>>
>>133392223
you can read the manga for free in the editorial web.

http://sai-zen-sen.jp/comics/karanokyoukai/
>>
>>133392047
>How about his ever-changing ability to adapt, his unrelenting conviction and kindness, all of which that helped in shaping many of various film protagonist's views (Shiki, Tomoe, Azaka) and greatly influenced a number of antagonist's mentality and eventual defeat (Kirie, Fujino, Lio)?

I do not consider kindness (what in other anime would be "he's nice") to be a romantic achievement between him and Shiki, I consider it to be the bare minimum for effective social interaction. Shiki doesn't need Kokuto in anything other than a vague philosophical concept - she could have got as much of a "different moral compass" from a Buddha statue for all the personal interaction she has with Kokuto.

>>133392120

>>Romance is irrelevant in this scenario; Kokuto saw an antisocial, depressed loner who needed saving. He didn't mindlessly sit outside her mansion - he packed and cared for his wellbeing, and obviously this pays off.

And as soon as she showed up covered in blood he instantly fled. Great conviction in your friend's innocence there, buddy.
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>>133392310
Touko is not present at all in KnK2 and has about 3 lines in 7, which are the films with the most overt focus on their romance.

>This was also the same issue with the romance in Fate/Stay Night

No it wasn't.
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>>133391978
Wow, Mikiya really looks different there, way sharper than Ufo's style.
>>
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>>133392311
Holy shit the art is beautiful
>>
Paradox Spiral was the only watchable installment of this horrible series, and that's only because the focus wasn't on Ms. Mary Sue or Kokutou the King of Betas.

>if you kill weedman I'll never forgive you
>I killed him
>I forgive you anyways

BRAVO
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>>133392408
>>
>be Nasu
>write pretentious nonsense
Every time.
>>
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>>133392439
>>>/tv/
>>
>>133392360
>fault him for kindness
>also fault him for being sane enough to flee when Shiki goes full crazy

Okay. In any case, you have fundamentally misunderstood these films and should probably rewatch before posting poorly formatted paragraphs in these threads.

>>133392439
Wait, you really think he gave a crap about Lio or morality? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Hint: This conflict was about Shiki not giving into her murderous instincts, not a scumbag being killed. By the point Shiki was going to kill Lio she had already come to grips with herself, and was killing him out of necessity (the same thing that she did to Araya).
>>
>>133392458
>make lots of money doing it
Let's face it, if I got paid a shit ton of dosh to write pretentious nonsense, I would do it.
>>
>>133392056
>eve Shiki says he's a whimp.
Relative to Shiki, most people are wimps.

Mikiya's pushy the same way an asian grandmother is pushy, but that's still more push than the average wimp can muster.
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>>133392311

who's this shirou emiya nigga clone?
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>>133392443
Goddamn, her origin is Smug.
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>>133392458
>>
>>133392571
When I watched Paradox Spiral I thought these two had a way better romantic chemistry than her with Kokutou.

He should've won the Shiki bowl.
>>
>>133392506
>the same thing that she did to Araya
Didn't Araya not count anyway because he wasn't a normal human?
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>>133392576
Please don't try to convince me that Nasu isn't pretentious.
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>>133392400
She did, in movie 1, 3, 4, 7. 2 obviously doesn't count because of the timeline, but in most movies she is the one to explain Shiki's thought process to Mikiya, and I hardly recall Shiki actually explaining herself to Mikiya as things happen other than short talks in the epilogues.
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>>133391958
It's very good. Arguably Nasu's best VN, especially in terms of prose and production. Just don't expect a 50 hour epic like FSN.

Aoko is my waifu, Alice is an angel and Soujuurou is a miracle of the universe.
>>
>>133392583
keep love triangle's out of my broody death line drama
>>
>>133392506
>>fault him for kindness
>>also fault him for being sane enough to flee when Shiki goes full crazy

I don't fault him for his kindness, I fault other people for trumpeting it as though it's something impressive rather than what any person should expect as a matter of course. He's kind? Well done, that's the base level. You need more than that.

In the forest, Kokuto could have approached with concern asking if Shiki had had an accident, or stood his ground and repeated his confidence that she wouldn't use the knife against him - but instead, his resolve crumbled instantly and he fled in terror and showed zero solidarity with the girl he allegedly wanted to save.
>>
>>133392458
But anon every writer writes Pretentious nonsense. Otherwise they wouldn't be writing at all and instead would go outside and bang a girl or something.
>>
>>133392191

Nice thanks. I'll have to go through it on the weekend.
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>>133392652
Nasu is a virgin, isn't he?
>>
>>133392623
There is a stark difference between complexity and pretentiousness. Nasu's work often requires a sharp attention span and knowledge of real world philosophical concepts, with semi-abstract dialogue and unconventional storytelling, but they are in no way "pretentious".

>>133392624
Mikiya already has an understanding of her thought process from his time with SHIKI in KnK2. What are you even referring to?
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>>133392458
I'd rather have more pretentious nonsense than any of the shonen/haremshit airing this season
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>>133392607
So they said. I think they were teasing at the fact Araya's life had been supernaturally extended beyond a normal human lifespan. He was, more or less, a supernatural monster with a human shape relentlessly pursuing some existential goal at the expense of the humans around him
>>
>>133392607

Throughout movie 7 I was wondering why everyone was so wound up about Shiki killing someone - hadn't she already stuck someone like a pig in movie 5? Needing to constantly alt-tabbing out to read all these rule exceptions isn't sophistication, it's obfuscation.
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>>133392640
>>
Nasu is so hit or miss, how can someone who made HF, which was spectacular, made something as bad as the KnK series.
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>>133392710
Dude is pretty rich so I doubt it. With enough dough anything is possible.
>>
>>133392714
>Mikiya already has an understanding of her thought process
There's like 5 movies that contradict this statement.
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>>133392714
>There is a stark difference between complexity and pretentiousness. Nasu's work often requires a sharp attention span and knowledge of real world philosophical concepts, with semi-abstract dialogue and unconventional storytelling, but they are in no way "pretentious".
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
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>>133392623
There is literally nothing pretentious about you and a bro writing and drawing all of your chuuni wet dreams together.

Whatever pretentiousness is there is solely from people like you insisting that Nasu and his little dream world aren't deep and moving when other people say that they thought it was deep and moved them.
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>>133392781
Please leave
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>>133392763
Here, have some worms.
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>>133392754
I don't think you need to read any rules to make the observation that Shiki killing Araya and Shiki killing Lio are vastly different scenarios.

>>133392763
HF is inconsistent garbage that Nasu conjured up and lazily merged with the Illya route because they were out of time. If it wasn't for Kotomine I couldn't even take it seriously.
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>>133392836
>Nasu's work often requires a sharp attention span and knowledge of real world philosophical concepts
I'm dying here, anon
>>
>>133392836
People who actively dislike KnK are often meme spouting simpletons. Check this guy and his ebin reaction image >>133392867
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Spooky
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>>133392856
You know I was just thinking. Since worms can't give consent did Sakura rape them?
>>
Man, the horror/suspense atmosphere in the first movie was incredible.
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>>133392991
That part where she's in the dilapidated building and getting pulled around by an invisible force while the ghost (?) laughs was pretty freaky. Could have used more moments like that in the other films desu
>>
>>133392991
The first movie really was incredible. I think people get caught up on the long, dry monologuing and sell the whole thing short. The atmosphere through the whole thing, and especially during the scenes within the old building, were just incredible.
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>>133392974

Well it was moreso Zouken raping Sakura.
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>>133392991
The backgrounds were fantastic too.
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>>133392408
The Legendary Masterpiece
>>
>>133392859
>>Shiki killing Araya and Shiki killing Lio are vastly different scenarios.

How? They're two people who are doing physical harm to the world around them and violently abusing the protagonists. The magician and the knife-wielder have no distinction other than specific means, the ends are that they're two murderous baddies who need dealing with.
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>>133393085
Victim blaming anon-kun. I'm sure if Sakura told Zouken that she didn't like the worms he would help her.

Those poor worms don't deserve what they got. Worst sister is terrible compared to her better.
>>
>>133393162
Not him but Araya was more or less a demon in human skin, he can reattach chopped limbs and turn other people into freaks and swim around a building. Lio had some crazy ninja moves and CANNIBALISM but he was still manifestly human and at the end of the day he was just a serial killer.
>>
>>133392916
Not him, but KnK really could trim the nonsense philosophy at points. It's almost Subete F tier. Also there was no point in it being out of order. Specially the second movie coming right after the first was a terrible decision.

The sixth movie was also shit. Other than that it's pretty decent.
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>>133391978
Shiki wants that French dick so fucking hard
>>
>>133393180
Go away, Zouken.
Sakura was worst main girl but she didn't rape the worms.
>>
>>133393246
Subete F and KnK aren't comparable or similar in any way.

>Also there was no point in it being out of order.
Demonstratably false.
>>
>>133393330
>Subete F and KnK aren't comparable or similar in any way.
Please please please tell me why that is.
>>
>>133393246
>Also there was no point in it being out of order
I enjoyed putting the pieces together like a puzzle but I can see why people would be annoyed
Rewatching everything in chronological order was great because I could just focus on the MikiShiki banter
>>
>>133393374
In Perfect Insider you are supposed to laugh at the protagonist's armchair philosophy and self-importance. The narrative treats him as a joke and the other characters call him out on it.

In KnK the Buddhist philosophy is an integral part of the narrative, being a story about duality and nature vs nurture.
>>
This may be random but I wonder what Ursula K LeGuin would think of KnK
And Nasu might do a good job of adapting the Earthsea books into anime script
>>
>>133393162
You're being reductive.
One was a person that happened to be a cannibalistic serial killer, and then had supernatural forces beyond his control, forcibly awoken within him which drove him insane while they destroyed his body. He was evil, but also lonely and scared; a murderer, but also a victim suffering from some affliction wholly beyond his control. There was recognizable humanity within him, even if he was a bad person (horrifically so). Killing a human being, no matter how villainous he is or how much he may 'deserve it' is still crossing both a moral line and a personal one.

The other was a person that lived hundreds of years ago and magically transplanted his consciousness into dolls to keep living after his body had failed. After doing this countless times he'd begun to forget why he even did it in the first place and continued to live and act, fueled entirely by magic, to accomplish some vague goal for no purpose other than to bring fruition to the extended life that was otherwise meaningless. He wasn't searching for meaning, he wasn't searching for answers, he wasn't doing it for fun or to explore some deep existential or ontological meaning. He was a magical machine, unfeeling, unattached, carrying out a task that had been programmed into it lifetimes ago. Araya was much closer to the monsters in Tsukihime than he was to a human being.
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>>133393390
When the story is shown out of order we already know the protagonist is not going to die and we're left free to focus on the unstable mental states of the two leads. Similar techniques are used which benefit the third film as well. The ordering of the films is used to control the viewers expectations when going into certain scenes and adjust which questions they will and won't be asking at specific points in time.

This series title literally means "boundary of emptiness". By establishing a boundary of what is empty, you're establishing what constitutes emptiness. Consequently, you're also establishing what has value. The series thematically deals with that and it's why it's released out of chronological order.
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>>133393390
>focus on the MikiShiki banter

"Have sex with me"
"No"

"You're an imbecile"
"Sorry"

"[half an hour of reciting a psychology textbook verbatim]"
"That's nice"

Scintillating wit and riveting ripostes, chum.
>>
>>133390197
Is that rhino?
>>
>>133393330
Explain how it's false. In what way is making the story needlessly confusing better than making it it chronological order? I realize it's a common storytelling method, but it adds nothing here as the pacing suffers thanks to it and you're left scratching your head until the fifth movie.
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>>133393505
>cherrypicking
Stuff like the key scene was great
And "you're a girl"
>>
>>133393481
An author with themes based in Taoism? She would probably like it. Nasu's work is never going to be properly translated and localized, though.
>>
>>133393505
Have you ever read a psych textbook? It's actually really interesting stuff. Most thinkers either had really elaborate and flowery prose that's a joy to read, or were so candid that they made difficult and convoluted concepts easy to grasp.

Nasubabble isn't comparable to a psych textbook at all. It's more akin to a middleschool student paraphrasing a wikipedia article.
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>>133393557

>>133393501
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>tfw you can clearly point out a single autist in this thread defending every single aspect of KnK
>>
>>133393566
>Most thinkers either had really elaborate and flowery prose that's a joy to read

Read pretentious bullshit.

> or were so candid that they made difficult and convoluted concepts easy to grasp.

Read simple bullshit.
>>
>>133393566
I take it you can read Japanese?
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>>133393634
>I am above those autists with their discussions and arguments!
>>
>>133393499

If this distinction is important then the movies do a terrible, ineffectual job of making it. I fear that your conclusion requires a lot of convolution after the fact than anything communicated in the story itself. A viewer just sees two sentient beings having their existences ended by Shiki's pointy sticks.
>>
>>133393718
>A viewer just sees two sentient beings having their existences ended by Shiki's pointy sticks.
Speak for yourself. I first experienced KnK through the films and the distinction was pretty overt.
>>
>>133393566

I don't wish to be anti-intellectual or diminish the science or art of what Shiki's saying in the epilogue, but it's symptomatic of the lack of "banter" that the anon above insisted the two characters had. They're talking heads, not a couple.
>>
>>133393505
>You're an imbecile
Shiki never says this. At all. Could you rewatch (or better yet, read) KnK with not-shit subs?
>>
>>133393428
>the protagonist's
Except it's not just the protagonist. Every character is either a styrofoam cutout with no personality or a styrofoam cutout with no personality except to spout meaningless pseudophilosophy and act insufferable self-important.

It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that every 'smart' character did absolutely nothing to justify them being treated like geniuses or 'revolutionary thinkers.' The whole thing comes across as what some highschool Raskalnikov thinks the superintelligent ubermensch of his fantasy behave like.
>>
>>133393718
>Scary serial killer
>Basically a walking monster that has been alive for centuries.

To me it is kind of obvious one is different then the other.
>>
>>133393634
There's another autist that posts thinly veiled bait and meme pics, I'd say it evens out. I'm just here to harvest more Shiki pics
>>
>>133393821
>Raskalnikov
> Fyodor Dostoyevsky

Now we are hitting the real pretentious bullshit now the references keep piling up.
>>
>>133393821
Wrong thread.
>>
>>133393718
>A viewer just sees two sentient beings having their existences ended by Shiki's pointy sticks
Speak for yourself. I have only watched the KnK movies out of all of Nasu's works and thought Araya was a demon or something when I first watched the fifth movie
>>
>>133393796
Void Shiki =/= the Shiki that Mikiya spends most of his time with.
>>
>>133393501
>When the story is shown out of order we already know the protagonist is not going to die and we're left free to focus on the unstable mental states of the two leads.
You're grasping at straws here. So the audience can focus on the mental state instead of wondering if they're going to die or not? That's a very weak argument seeing as one can focus on Shiki's mental health just as easily if not more had the movies been in chronological order. I like the series don't get me wrong, but it clearly suffers from the convoluted storytelling of the first 4 movies.

Also your second is a bunch of pseudo philosophical babble. I genuinely don't how that helps the order at all.
>>
>>133393922
Second argument*
>>
>>133391872
thats a lie my uncle smoked a whole pack of marijuana cigarettes and he just go so hungry he cooked and ate his own penis
>>
>>133393910
>>133393832
>>133393773

But why should killing a demon be different from killing a rampaging mass-murderer? Legalistic hair-splitting over whether magicians count as Japanese citizens for the purposes of claiming social security aside.
>>
>>133393922
In KnK2, we last see Shiki as a mentally unstable, dangerous, likely-killer. At the start of film 3 we still see Shiki as closer to the killer persona than the warmer Shiki seen in 1. She's clearly been reigned in some, but we still have every reason to believe that she is a serial killer. Her motivations remain unclear and this makes her hard to relate to. I claim this is an intended effect, that benefits the third film. The third film aims to create a truly dark atmosphere that show cases the worst aspects of human nature. A critical part of conveying this feeling of hopelessness to the viewer is denying the viewer any character we can truly emphasize with (aside from Mikiya). The primary conflict is between two monsters, of which Fujino seems to be the more human character. The film can only achieve this complete emptiness through leaving Shiki's character shrouded in mystery. The events of the fourth film humanize Shiki and distance her from the killer persona. After that the fourth film I don't think the events of the third film could be experienced with the same emptiness.

>Also your second is a bunch of pseudo philosophical babble. I genuinely don't how that helps the order at all.

Anti-intellectualism and a semi-abstract philosophical work don't mesh very well.
>>
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>>133394038
I dunno, said demon was going around making other people into demons. If I remember correctly he awakened Lio, who was a cannibal ninja and ripper, Fujino, who twisted people into shreds and blew up a bridge, and the ghost girl in the first movie that made other girls commit sudoku or something. No moral qualms behind any of this and his body sure wasn't human anymore. He was more of a disease or force of nature that turned people into monsters. Lio still had some awareness left inside him before the drugs turned him full crazy and the scene with him and Mikiya in his apartment showed that. You could even argue he was a victim himself.
>>
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Anon, come here
>>
>>133394038
At the time when she was just pursuing Lio, she was actually willing to kill Lio out of cold blood (the novel emphasizes her cruel and apathetic thoughts much more unlike the silent treatment she was giving in the movie). This is what most people didn't realize, in that Shiki only decided to act rationally during the final sequences of the film thanks to being reminded by Mikiya's words. That's why when she killed Lio she was able to maintain her current mindset, because her motives were different than before. Yes she wanted to protect Mikiya before, but it never dominated her thoughts as she was more furious of the very existence of Lio as he was the one who pretty much drove SHIKI to his death.

"Shiki kills bad dude" is not some generic variable - you have to take context into account.
>>
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>>133394290
Mana is a miracle of nasuverse
>>
5 > 7 > 2 > 3 > 1 > 4 > 6
>>
>>133394489
7 >= 5 > 3 > 1 > 2 > 4 > 6

3 is up there because Noto Mamiko
>>
>>133394325

The problem here though is that it undermines itself - so much time is spent on Kokuto relentlessly banging the drum that Killing Is Bad And If You Kill You Are A Horrible Person that killing for justice, revenge, or to "halt a force of nature" loses its nuance.
>>
>>133390830
Cute girls.
>>
>>133394602
>so much time is spent on Kokuto relentlessly banging the drum that Killing Is Bad And If You Kill You Are A Horrible Person
Kokuto never says anything like this. If you're referring to film 3, that has its own nuance and context.
>>
>>133394656
>>>/r/fatestaynight/
>>
>>133394045
>Anti-intellectualism and a semi-abstract philosophical work don't mesh very well.
Ah, so you're a nasu memer. I get it now.
>>
>>133390830
Technical qualities.
The voice acting was exceptional, even within the high standard the industry generally has.
The music is far and away the best soundtrack of Kajiura's career
Art and character design were exceptional and stood out both for their attention to detail and aesthetic quality
Background art was beyond exceptional, especially in the first movie which was literal scenery porn
Animation was consistently well above average. The rooftop sequence of knk 1 in particular was sakuga par excellence. In general it was Ufotable's best work with regards to animation and also one of the exceptionally few times where they used digital effects and postprocessing effectively without overusing it.
The direction was phenomenal, particularly in the 1st and 5th movies.

In literally every category except writing, it stands out as well above the average. As a unity of visuals, direction and bgm, it's highest points deserve to be mentioned alongside formative classics of the medium.

And I don't mean that in a pretentious way. People get hung up on the story and its obvious flaws but as a visual and auditory spectacle, knk was amazing.
>>
>>133394880
>The voice acting was exceptional, even within the high standard the industry generally has
It probably didn't hurt that the two main leads were going out IRL and had known each other for several years, like the characters they were playing.

>they were even married for two years when they did Mirai Fukuin
>yfw Maaya admitted on a radio talk show that she only cooks Japanese dishes like Shiki
>>
>>133394880
>KnK isn't above average in writing
What? The heavy dialogue and anachronic storytelling alone puts it above the majority of anime. If we go into each film's sub narrative, themes, and everything else.. yeah.

I do agree that ufotable's work was great (6 aside) though
>>
>>133394880
R.I.P ufotable
>>
>>133391550
>>133392640
>>133392640
>but instead, his resolve crumbled instantly and he fled in terror and showed zero solidarity with the girl he allegedly wanted to save.
Well no shit. He's a realistic character. That's how actual people react to the first time they've seen imminent danger.

You're an idiot just stop arguing.
>>
I want to meet the woman that Nasu was lusting after and based Shiki on. It might even have been a man.
>>
>>133395111
takeuchiiiiiii
>>
>>133390426
Rapist, please go away
>>
>>133392310
>Using verbosity to explain otherwise simple storylines doesn't equal this.

Example?
>>
>>133395162
Why did you quote >>133391550
>>
>>133394767
No that anon but I wasn't even aware that subreddit existed.

Redditors should fuck off and stay in their shithole.
>>
>>133395223
Mistake. I meant to quote the other post only.
>>
>>133395162

Sorry, no. His instant collapse doesn't make him seem realistic, it just makes him appear contemptible and the 30 minutes of him repeating over and over that Shiki is innocent a complete waste of the viewer's time.
>>
>>133390197
Because Enjou was a far more interesting protagonist who managed to have a better arc in one movie than Kokuto had in seven.
>>
>all this Kokutou hate
There is not a single person here who would not want their very own male or female version of Kokutou for themselves.
>>
>>133395478
>female Kokuto Mikiya
I want to see this
>>
>>133395478
>>all this Kokuto hate
Where? It's mostly just >>133395330 who gave up on actually making points over an hour ago.
>>
>>133395416
>Oh, I wish this spiral was a paradox.

What did Enjou Tomoe mean by this?
>>
>>133395521
It doesn't need to exist, you'd become gay for him and crossdress for him.
>>
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Daily reminder that taboo origin is suffering.
>>
>>133395564
>origin is taboo
>strong anti-fujoshi sentiment
Never occurred to me but now that I think about it, it's kinda strange.
>>
>>133395564
KnK2 is the best.
>>
>>133392009
top kek
>>
>>133394984
People like to bandwagon shit on the writing because it's deliberately obtuse and probably also because they can't be bothered to pay attention to all the Nasuverse world building infodumps and it's easier to just claim that it's all just there to be pretentious.

It's clearly not a masterpiece of writing and it's even outright amateurish in places but by the standard set with anime in general for writing it at least gets an "above average."
>>
>>133390197
>>>only show my love in the last movie
>always watched over her from the moment he met her
>risked getting killed by her batshit personality
>willingly hung out with her batshit personality and was accepted by him
>followed her into the workforce
>lost an eye for her
And most super duper importantly
>nearly overdosed on SUPER WEED just to save her

Kokutou was the Hinata to Shiki's Naruto and they both knew it but nothing happened until Kokutou manned the fuck up and claimed his bitch.
>>
>>133396333
>>133384483
>>
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>>133390197
What do you think of her redesign?
>>
>>133396459
>BLACKED
>can shiki kill servants
>wormslut XD
>OLD MEN

Why are Fate threads so cancerous?
>>
>>133394983
Nice. Are there any other cases with the VAs behind the characters being couples IRL as well?
>>
>>133394983
This is the greatest thing ever.
>>
>>133396517
Only when you're in them.
>>
>>133396517
Try harder.
>>
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>>133396572
It definitely solidified Shiki/Kokuto as my favorite romance in anime.
>>
>>133390197
I don't think you comprehended where the relationship changes in the timeline anon..
>>
>>133396517
>BLACKED

Where did this meme start?
>>
>>133396724
Probably with stupid NTR doujins. That cancer spreads everywhere.
>>
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>>133394983
>>
>>133396724
If you mean the actual term blacked, I think that's the name of a 3DPD porn site that's literally about black guys fucking white girls. If you mean the meme in general, just /pol/ and NTRshit running rampant.
>>
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>>133396900
Are there even any NTR doujins with saber getting "blacked"? Or even anything to do with being "blacked"? Just curious. Not like I get off to that stuff.
>>
>>133390426
Who? Nasu doesn't acknowledge him as Shiki
>>
>>133397165
There's a whole stupid 10 volume NTR series with Rin and Saber by someone NTR fags revere as a messiah.
>>
>>133397165
No, it stems from an old subtitled version of DEEN/stay night where it mentions "He hated how the king, despite being c-u-c-kolded" or something to that effect, and then someone went on to post "LITTLE WHITE SLUT FOR BIG BLACK COCK" in succession, each word being a post on its own. At least, that's where I think it comes from. Let's not shit up this nice KnK thread with c-u-c-koldry.
>>
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>>133397252
Whats it called jack? My curiosity is aroused.
>>
>>133397660
something something Tohsaka-ke something something
>>
>>133397746
Thats not helpful? If you have a sadpanda link that could help.
>>
>>133397660
>>133397825
I'll spoon feed you, look up the artist Jin on sad panda.

Does mostly NTR works.
>>
>>133397846
Thanks, jack.
>>
>>133392856
You know if you really think about it only a masochist would prefer right over left if they had to take something up their orifices. It'd be humiliating but at least there's not as much bleeding and mutilation.
>>
>>133396540
I don't think so, which is why Japan rejoiced when Suzuken x Maaya became real and keeps up with their married couple antics to this day. The shipping began during Gundam Seed Destiny when they were openly flirting on the show's radio specials.
>>
>>133397165
BLACKED
>>
>>133397165
I wonder if this will get a sequel. I really doubt the wife won that "game".
>>
>>133395564
Worthlessness is the best origin short of something actually useful like Sword or Rape.

It means you're going to fail at life no matter how hard you try but damn it if that doesn't endear you to me.
>>
>>133391896
Enjou looked like Emiya so it's good he was gone.
>>
>>133399291
She came multiple times. Mr. King won. I usually dont like NTR but these one were fucking hilarious.
>>
>>133399472
It's impossible to feel sympathy for the couple, they're both beyond stupid. Sucks for the kid though, I hope his parents die and he goes to live with a decent family.
>>
>>133399470
not liking shirou
>>
>>133399525
You cant ever feel sympathy for anyone in NTR when they act so goddamn stupid. I can only think of one where the protag was keked. But he cut all ties with that bitch and moved on.
>>
>>133399171
>>133399291
>>133399472
>>133399525
>>133399707
Can you maybe take this elsewhere
>>
>>133399753
Yeah I'm sorry m8, I'll shut up about it.
>>
>>133399753
No sadpanda thread on the catalog though. Where else can I discuss NTR manga?
>>
>>133399899
>No sadpanda thread
Then make one you maggot

>Where can I discuss NTR
Awful fetish, consider sudoku
>>
lolu
>>
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>>133397165
SKEET SKEET SKEET
>>
>>133399920
I dont get off to it. Its like watching cheap romantic comedies for ironic laughs and enjoyment.
>>
>>133390762
What's the text saying anyway?
>>
>>133399472
Wasn't the "game" that she wouldn't get pregnant?
>>
>proto-Shirou managed to be more interesting and likeable in one movie than Kokuto did in 7

Explain it.
>>
>>133400824
Pretty sure it was orgasm.
>>
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>>133402802
No, I just checked. The game is about her not getting pregnant.
>>
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>>133403690
Still, it's almost impossible to win that after 6 weeks.

Her confidence either comes from knowing she's barren or she's just plain stupid.
>>
ITT: People pretending to hate Nasu.
>>
>>133390830
It's cool, even if you're a normie. My chad brother was blown away, even more so when I explained to what the fuck everyone was talking about.

Come to think of it, this might not be a good thing.
>>
>>133403690
>>133403743
At least they're acting like real dindus.
>>
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>>133404057
Mr. King seems like a respectable negro male. He wants to help out the couple, but there has to be some payment for the effort. I respect that. And if those dudes are his [email protected], then theyre probably alright.

So in conclusion, youre full of shit.
>>
>>133404057
>Offer a fair trade to get the dude out of his debt
>Remember how important it is to make sure their sex is safe within limits of aforementioned agreement
>Mr.King is chill as fuck
>Acting like dindus

Cmon [email protected]
>>
>>133403743
>she's just plain stupid

This is most probably seeing as every ntr manga Ive read has retarded as fuck characters.
>>
>>133392056
>Shiki basically invited him to fuck her and all he did was sleep.
He didn't care.

>Shiki says he's a whimp
Can you blame her?
He's normal.
He doesn't have any special skills.
He doesn't know shit about magic.
He has no secret combat abilities.
He has nothing.
>>
>>133406813
What is so beta about rejecting and offer to fuck? Not everyone needs to be obliged to fuck until he feels like it. Maybe Kokutou just didn't believe in sex before marriage.
>>
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>>133392458
>>
>>133401318
Kokutou is, essentially, a quite abnormal character masquerading as a nice-guy love interest whose interesting elements don't become apparent until later in the series and after a bit of thought. Enjou is an archetype of normalcy disguised by the strange context of his appearance in the story who overcomes his normalcy/worthlessness to make a difference. They're both good characters, but Kokutou's appeal is a bit more subtle, especially given how bittersweet and poignant the ending of Enjou's story is. It's hard to blame anyone for liking Enjou after the last scenes of KnK5.
>>
>>133406887
Because youll find her riding another man's cock a week later.
>>
>>133407493
> Because youll find her riding another man's cock a week later.
Good riddance, then?
If anything, jumping into bed the moment bitch told you to when you aren't in the mood yourself is beta. When you want to sleep - you sleep. Ladies come and go, your sleeping habits are part of you forever.
>>
>>133406887
A healthy young man refusing to have sex with the person he loves for no apparent reason is just strange.
>>
>>133407668
>Ladies come and go
Shiki is not some random slut though.
>>
>>133407668
Anything to justify how pathetic you are, huh senpai?
>>
Can kokuto kill/beat servants?
>>
>>133408052
Cocteau can probably get beaten up by a servant.
>>
>>133408052
No.
>>
>>133408052
They'd want to be his bro or fuck him, so yes.
>>
>>133390830
Mikiya is what everybody wants: a happy, normal life with no worries. Being average, not special and "human" is best.
>>
This is the closest thing to a Fate thread I could find.
I've only seen KnK for some odd reason and intend to catch up with the rest of the series in the universe. It's probably a stupid question but is there a particular order I should follow or should I just go with release dates?
>>
>>133408554
Go with the release dates. They were released like that for a reason. Don't listen to what anyone else says, you'll regret it. Also, after 6 movies, watch "Gate of Seventh Heaven" to recap everything in chronological order. Enjoy.
>>
>>133408554
Release dates.
>>
>>133394880
>The music is far and away the best soundtrack of Kajiura's career

agreed https://d.maxfile.ro/oqwkzjhqng.webm

this shit gets my blood going every time
>>
>>133408647
>>133408655
Thanks.
Ever since Haruhi I've had my doubts about release dates but I'll go with those now.
Much appreciated.
>>
>>133408554
Release dates is the way to go.
>>
>>133408554
Kara no Kyoukai or TYPE-MOON in general? I went with chronological order for Kara no Kyoukai, it was easier to understand or at least that's what I felt. But if you ask about TM in general, release dates.
>>
>>133408713
Here is the OST without Chad talking.
https://youtu.be/3eP_hTMxoQA
>>
>>133408969
TYPE-MOON in general.
I've always avoided anything to do with the franchise but I think it's time.
>>133408935
Downloading F/SN as I type.

Thanks for the input.
>>
>>133409114
You really should read the vn.
>>
>>133409149
Tried but the last one I managed to complete was Wanko and it took me two months.
VN just aren't my thing.
>>
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>>133390197
>be Kokuto
>fall in love with cold girl in your highschool
>slowly make her fall in love with you as well
>fug her
>marry her
>have a daughteru with her
Kokuto literally won at life.
>>
>>133409458
Why doesn't Shiki wear panties?
>>
>>133409458

Shiki won more than he did. Most other dudes wouldn't so willing to forgive attempted murder or wait years for her to come out of a coma
>>
>>133409226
I think it's normal for VNs to take two or more months. If you read a VNs in less than that, you're a neet.
>>
>>133409458
Basically what he aimed for since the beginning. Truly the best.
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