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Give me one reason why Tohsaka Tokiomi isn't better than

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Give me one reason why Tohsaka Tokiomi isn't better than Kerrytugu. Protip: you can't.
>>
Tokiomi died like a bitch to Kotomine while Kerry fought him to standstill.

Also,
>I'm going to auction off my daughter to get raped by worms daily cause she can't possibly have a normal life as a non-mage, so why the fuck did I have a second child in the first place?
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>>124906747
Kerrytugu's daughter was better.
Kerrytugu's wife was better.
Kerrytugu was not a pompous arrogant silly mage who cared about his petty manners and squabbles, which included giving away a daughter.

Tokiomi's followers back stabbed him.
Kerrytugu's were ready to die for him.
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>>124907522
>Kerrytugu's daughter was better.
That's a fucking lie.
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>>124907711
No. Was is the operating word here.
loli-Rin is a little shit. Ilya is better than her.
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In terms of Fate/Zero Master's
Kerry=Kotomine>Tokiomi>Kayneth>Kariya>Ryuunosuke
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>>124907468
There's nothing to suggest he knew she'd get wormed, and he only gave her to the Makiri so she could use her talents as a mage, had she been born powerless or Rin had been he would have kept them both. That's what he means when he goes "damn my wife for giving me two great girls instead of one"
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>>124907825
And obviously Waver > all
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>>124908137
He knew about the Matou's, so I knew her fate was gunna suck and she would be worm food. But yes you are right in that she gave birth at the same time for them.
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>>124907522
Pretty much this.
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>>124908400
Who says he knew about the Matou's? I didn't read the LN so I don't know for sure but he doesn't strike me as the type who would think stuffing pieces of grail and worms into her just for the sake of birthing a strong child for a later war was a top notch plan to live out her talents as a magus.
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>>124908674
The Einzberns, Tohsakas, and Makiris have known about each other for centuries.
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>>124908674
He may or may not have know exactly what would of befallen her. But the Matou's magic is not exactly a secret from the other main families.

Its called turning a blind eye, which makes him even shitter.
>>
>>124907522
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>>124908745
Fair point, I suppose everyone does know the Einzberns use Alchemy and make homunculi for example so it would be a stretch to not know Tohsakas use crystals and Makiri worms
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>>124906747
He's an academic rather than wetworker.

This led him to arrogance and tunnel vision. An inability to adapt outside of your comfort zone combined with a headstrong dogmatic strategy is a death sentence in any sort of combat.

He's not as bad as our boy fastwheels but he suffers from the same problem. fundamental problem.
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>>124908840
You forgot the middle stage
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>>124909081
Only the last one amused me, so I saved it.
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>>124909293
I thought the artist was pretty good, and Iri and Illya look so beautiful in all of them, but especially the first one.
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How does Archer knew about Avalon?
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Do we know who this is yet? Someone tell me if I've missed the clues.
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>>124909829
Damn, with that look. I'm guessing he's actually relatively new by Servant standards.
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>>124909829
>Assassin
What.
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>>124909951
F/SN's been ruined by unlimited milking works and now every character is a Saber clone or some shitty anime/harem stereotype, genderswap or an ugly monster.
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>>124909951
ONLY Fuyuki war made it so that Hassan was the only Assassin

No other grail has had that rule, that rule was specially put into place by the three families for a reason.
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>>124909951
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>>124909829
>assassin
>not having that grim dark pshh nothing personel kid look

he looks more like a harry potter knock off
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>>124910062
John Wilkes Booth
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>>124906747
Not sure why people considered him a mediocre mage. He seems quite strong with his fire magic.
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>>124910443
He is fine as a mage.

Shit master, and shit person.
Definitely not better than kerrytugu, which OP claimed.

But I guess OP is just a faggot, nothing new.
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>>124910484
Novel lays it out that he's an exceedingly mediocre magus, that just works twice as hard as other people to put on a front that he's better than he is.

If a genius could get results in ten years, it would take him twenty.

People still underestimate him though; he's nowhere near a genius and put on airs of what he wasn't, but he was very knowledgeable and practiced. He can't compare to Kayneth, but he's good in his own ways.
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>>124910560
>He can't compare to Kayneth

Fastwheels was a legitimately great magus, huh? He always seemed to think way too highly of himself and made very bad moves.

>calls out a fight to other servants with one of the weakest in the war
>attacks a guy known for being excellent at killing mages head-on
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>>124908137
The very thing of" knowing nothing" is the very reason he suck and stupid. What you said is always an excuse of Tokiomi apologist and it's stupid, not to mention these guy always said" but I'm not Tokiomi fan, trust me I don'ttttt"...you apologist are pathetic.
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>>124906747
Tokiomi died like a bigger bitch.
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>>124910865
Lot of people that think highly of themselves in fate, honestly they do indeed have something to think highly about. The only case when that isn't correct is Shinji.

It's just that they tend to go a little too far with it

Medea, Gilgamesh, Kayneth, they were legit great, but those odd types always tend to throw them up.

He was something of a genius magus with very good skills, but the worst sort of target immediately realized he needed to be gotten rid of, and made him his bitch.
>>
Even in an alternate timeline Toki gave Rin to Shirou after meeting him for like 2 seconds.

He just can't stop himself.
>>
>>124906747
>>124907522
But Tokiomi had the sexiest voice.

Bless you, Show Hayami.
>>
>>124910932
I wouldn't trust his decisions in that world-line so much. He seems like the guy who would give away whoever to the first person to come along and bail his ass out.

They really made fun of him for being a shitty sort of father there.
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>>124911008
And he really is, correct?
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>>124910865
Yes, he's really powerful. In all seriousness, Fate is a pretty bad way to get an idea of how things work in Nasuverse because it's a tiny sample of extremely top tier powers, and even shit filler ends up with a Servant which is immensely stronger and more skilled then practically any living magus.

>>124910930
>Medea, Gilgamesh, Kayneth, they were legit great, but those odd types always tend to throw them up.
I think more accurately it's that Nasuverse has strong offensive bias, ie., basically everything is way stronger on the attack then defense. The big mark of shonen stuff like DBZ/Naruto/Bleach/whatever is they're balanced power-wise, someone stronger gets both defense and offense boost with the result being that they can just stand there and take it from anyone much lower down (which makes for boring progression).

But in Nasuverse being "stronger" mostly means you just have more varied ways to kill, or faster ways to kill or whatever. Nobody, even those with the most powerful ultimate level defensive powers like 12 labors can afford to just stand there and take indefinitely. Beyond a certain point anybody can kill anybody if they can figure out the opponent's mysteries or personality flaws. Anybody can lose if they fuck up.
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>>124909829
HOLY SHIT
IT'S SHERLOCK HOLMES
EVERYBODY REJOICE
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>>124911122

This anon gets it.

People die when they're killed. Can't afford to just tank everything.
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>>124911153
>Miyano Holmes
Man if this were true I'd probably end up masturbating more to him than I ever have to all the Lancers combined.
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>>124909829
It's Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde from Fate Prototype, where he was Berserker.
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>>124911275
>>
>>124911275

Fate Prototype seem like a series meant to setup husbandos, like how the mainline Fate is meant to setup waifus. Are there english trans of it anywhere, or do I have to learn glorious nipponese
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>>124911410
Nothing much was ever done with Prototype though, just notes and a teaser "trailer". UTW subbed that so you can just go watch it. Kind of a fun take, you can compare how things changed a lot between that and what we got in F/SN.
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>>124911551
Fate/Prototype actually has a currently running light novel series of its version of the Fourth War, like Zero was to Stay Night, so it is being developed as a full-fledged story. Those novels are where Jekyll as Berserker is actually from. It also features Rameses II as Rider, who is awesome, and (probably) Brynhildr as Lancer.
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>>124911686
We see Brynhildr in CCC(sort of), although normally she's a divine spirit and can't be summoned.

>01 - Brynhild Romantia (Until Death Do Us Part)'
>The Noble Phantasm that BB granted to this Alter Ego.
>This Noble Phantasm strikes with more accuracy and does more damage the deeper her love toward the target is. Even if it's utterly one-sided, she will never let her loved one escape.
>The Servant this Noble Phantasm was made from is the valkyrie, Brynhild, who appears in "The Völsunga Saga." The spear of love and hatred that she wielded in order to get revenge on her husband, Sigurd who betrayed her and wounded her honor. Strictly speaking, not the spear itself, but the deep love and hatred Brynhild felt for Sigurd that has taken the shape of a spear.
>In "The Völsunga Saga," the fearless hero Sigurd (Siegfried) takes Brynhild, who was sleeping encircled by flame, as his wife. But afterwards, Sigurd betrays her, presenting her as his brother-in-law's wife. At first, Brynhild believed that this was due to Sigurd drinking alcohol which caused him to lose his memories and accepted these events as her immutable fate.
>However, she came to know that, in reality, Sigurd had already regained his memories by that time. In the end, Brynhild killed the man she loved most in the entire world via a conspiracy and then freely took her own life in order to follow after him.
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>>124911782
The identity of Lancer in the Prototype novels isn't outright confirmed yet, just signs point to Brynhildr.

Prototype's place in the lore gets increasingly weird though. There's the new crossover novel that has Manaka and Arturia as a Master-Servant combi, 2015 April Fool's implied Prototype was a legitimate alternate universe, and now Prototype Servants are showing up in Grand Order too.
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>>124906747
Kayneth was the best
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>>124908137

Uh no. Not only is Tokiomi a shitty mage, but he's also a shit.
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>>124906747
He threw his daughter into a wormpit.
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>>124912209
Do you think this zouken's real plan?
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>>124912249
Just have Shirou project a second crest, that way both girls can be a family head.

Problem = solved
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>>124912271
>Sticking Grail fragments in Sakura was a mistake - Zouken Matou
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>>124911868
It's just a VERY alternate universe, like KnK is to Tsukihime.
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>>124912249
It gave her happiness she always wanted.
Thread posts: 58
Thread images: 13


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