>It's too risky to not cater to teens and otaku so lets

>lets make shit adaptations

>Yokohama Kaidashi kikou
That guy is a bro.

>>124875633
But if animators like the guy on the right have the passion to draw cute grills, then so much better for the industry.

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>>124876119
What if he was working at A-1?

>>124876119
He has so much passion he barely earns enough money to stay alive.

>>124876193
Nothing, it was manager that died not animator.

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How did we go form this

>>124876878
Anime peaked in the 90s

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>>124876878
to THIS

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>>124877054
You sure took your time choosing a gif m8.

Except moe (at least to the extent of shows carried exclusively by moe) is a fad that is already starting to fade. People that thought that this was going to take over somehow and be all that anime was going to be were idiots.

Yeah, you missed the part where before all of that you got nothing but horrendously low budget 26-52 episode children's shows and OVAs for "adults" that, if you were lucky, released one episode every 4 months.

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>>124877142
I lost my one from Soul Eater Not! and just used WUG.
You know the one I mean.

>>124876878
source?

>>124877196
Unfortunately this
Id take moe shows over self insert MC with special snowflake powers any day

>>124877354
>I will take heart cancer over lung cancer

>>124877354
But what about moes with special snowflake powers?

>>124877450
At least moe shows can heal you after dealing with the real world
What we have now are masturbatory fantasies for manchildren

>>124877200
>horrendously low budget 26-52 episode children's shows and OVAs for "adults" that, if you were lucky, released one episode every 4 months.

Still got my vhs of Sol Bianca.
While what you say is true, it just makes it seem like the industry took one step forward and then two steps back.

>>124876878
>comparing movie animation to tv animation
Everytime.

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>>124877196
>repeating arguments from 1991
Good one. I laughed.

>>124877495
Even anime movies these days look like total shit

>>124876993
Japan peaked in the 90s.

>>124877520
>missing the point

>>124877573
I guess you are right.

>>124877560
Actual anime movies? Like original ones? No

>>124877054
Because Anime isn't just one singular genre you dumb fuck.

>>124877621
Original ones?
Which original ones? Ghibli?

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>>124877495
You're right.
Unfair comparison.
Here is a 2014 movie.

>>124876993
But Madoka was the peak of anime.

>>124877675
Well, it does not look BAD, but it sure as hell looks strange.

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>MUH OLD ANIMES

Most anime were either some kid's show/very family friendly/ for actual girls/ Some run of the mill Mecha trying to copy Gundam/Macross or some one shot OVA.

Anime creators in the 80s liked cute girls, GAR AND scifi, had passion while also having japan at its best back in the 80s/90s.

It's evident that there's wonderful work in modern times too with things such as Tatami Galaxy, Casshern Sins and Texhnolyze being of note but damn the industry overall is trying hard without actually seemingly liking anything but cute shit/trying to make money of otaku.

>>124877627
He is talking animation quality not themes ya poophead.

>>124876878
How the fuck did he rotate his robo hand if the glove translates his actual hand motions?!

>>124878017
Past a certain rotation degree the glove sends a continuous signal to the robot' wrist to keep rotating.
Not that hard.

>>124877675
this type of motion seems really uncanny because the software that does the motion smoothing seems to be poorly optimized. Likely because they can't afford the good software/ animators used in real movies. Rotoscoped or CG can look great but it ends up costing more than hiring slaves.

On that note, is Africa the next Korea for making anime?

>>124877675
Is that forced animation?

>>124875633
One of these days I'm going to edit this image to include details on the owner's studio.

>>124877675
It looks like it's in slow motion.

>>124878017
>he

>>124875633
If I have 6 to 10 million $ to spare can I found my own studio or fund an existing one?

>>124875633

It's called Capitalism, anon

get used to it, it will get worse

>>124878116
>a classroom full of illiterate niggers learning to draw moeblobs

>>124877482
It is like saying drugs can heal you after getting wrecked in real world.

>>124875633
On that note has anyone else started to think that perhaps releasing shows week by week just makes them shittier?

>>124878459
They do.

>>124878116
>>124878400

Given the choice between that and stitching sneakers for nike? Sounds like an improvement to me.

>>124878484
Whats the alternative.

>>124878459
The reality is just an illusion created by the lack of psilocybin.

>>124875633
>YKK
Can't fault the man's taste.

>>124878539
Releasing them as complete works or even as chapters the same way novels do.

>>124878375
Capitalism is wholly dependent on the standards of the consumer.
As long as most people are happy with eating shit, shit is what we will get.

>>124878017
It was probably POSTing.

>>124878098
So what happens when you stop doing that, then? Just keep going around with a misaligned hand?

>>124877912
Well I feel like an idiot now.

>>124877675
is this running on a PS4 or Xbox one?

>>124878837
>Just keep going around with a misaligned hand?
If the operator stopped it at that point then it means he needed it like that to perform a certain operation. There are reasons why people need special licenses to operate heavy machinery.
Not to mention that if a car's steering wheel can be made to self correct to a neutral position so could a robot's hand.

>>124878689
>the standards of the consumer.

laughing advertisers.jpg

>>124877675

Are those individually wrapped potato chips?

>>124877675
This scene just reeks of "try hard".

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>>124876119
>cute grills

You know, people keep posting the pic in OP, but have we ever got sauce on what studio that is?
I doubt any bigger studio ever has to bend over backwards for that level of demand.

>>124875633
>>124877196
>>124877354
When did it get acceptable for retards to misuse moe like /v/tards and not get called out for being morons?

>>124876878

>comparing 40 minute budget to a 26 episode budget

>>124878285
Yes and yes, but it takes about 5 million to make a 24 episode anime that's action packed with smooth animation. That means you only have enough for about 2 shows.

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>>124876878
>>124877054
I used to feel the same way, till I found a job and other things to worry about. I just watch anime in between work to escape from bullshit, so I want it catered to my mood and desire.

I couldn't care less about a masterpiece or animation quality, a light hearted SoL or romcom with decent characters works for me.

Keep it coming Japan.

>>124875633
Why the fuck are you still complaining about this, what would you expect them to do? Making anime is not very profitable at all, if they don't do this shit they would have a high chance of suffering losses. Going with a high budget unique series is like flipping a coin, you can never know if it will be successful enough to turn in a profit. Companies almost went bankrupt trying to do this. All they can do is either pander to hardcore fans with whatever seems to be the thing at the moment or try to reach a wider audience, which is a lot riskier but can turn in better profit if successful. Either way you faggots are complaining.

>>124875633
2006ish was peak anime prodction though

Even today the market is much more saturated than it was during the 90s. This leads to QUALITY

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>>124879871
You are incapable of enjoying good anime now that you have a job/busy life? What?

>>124875633
It's now adapt a bunch of LNs/WNs/Manga and produce sword and sorcery or sword and game

>>124880222
My autism is no longer as potent as it used to be. I don't obsess over anime like I used to.

Must be the age I guess, I turned 32 recently.

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>>124878017
Every time

Every time, somebody posts this.

>>124875633
Anime is a business, not your special snowflake medium.

>>124879871
>I don't care, therefore no one should

>>124880287
Only because every time, every time someone posts that webm.

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>>124880304
>I love eating garbage
>There should be no alternatives to garbage because I love it so much
>Food is terrible

>>124878459
What do you think anti-depressants are?

>>124878017
>he can't rotate his hand

Everyone laugh at this loser.

>>124880377
Exactly, if you watch fansub, its free, so why are people so asspained about it is beyond me.

Regardless, every season has a few series worth watching, so its alright in the end.

>>124880400
>Everything I don't like is garbage

>>124880400
I didn't say I like it.
If spending a lot of money and time to make a well-drawn anime actually makes them lose money or make less money, they won't do it.

>>124880385
I doubt they all are actually noticing the inconsistency themselves. Mostly, I suspect it's mimicry. This utter lack of self respect agitates me greatly.

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The age of moe died years ago. We are sliding down the path of chuuni and light novels now. Get with the times gramps.

>>124878639
You know that shows are mostly done by the time they start airing right? It will just take until the end of the airdate to finish it so they release it earlier

>>124879871
I agree with this man. Let the butthurt anons whine about the industry.

>>124876430
>implying this is a bad thing
If he's willing to sacrifice luxuries to do it, then that just means he has that much more love for it, and that love will likely translate into his work.

Sasuganiisamashit is the new hotness

>>124881301
it translate in his lifespan shortening by around 30 years, nothing more.

>>124877675
this looks so rotoscoped

>>124881468
>implying wealth==quality of health

>>124878689
>what are niche markets

>>124881740
>implying working 16 hours a day = health

>(1990s-2005)Harems make money so lets make lots of those
But more harems are made now and in recent years than were ever made in the 90s or early 00s. Last season alone had 6 harem shows that I know of and there's always at least a couple in every season.
>(2005-) This moe thing is popular so lets make lots of those
Your date is off by like 20 years. And before it was called moe it was called "kawaii," and people like you have been complaining about it since before you were born.

>>124877054

All that QUALITY.

>>124881581
It was partially rotoscoped.

>>124881773
Most people do activities that equate to the amount of effort it takes to animate for enjoyment, as well as work 8-9 hours a day.
If he were doing something truly labor-intensive, I would agree with you, but he really isn't.

>>124881934
We have a lot of Harems this season as well.
Denpa Kyoushi
High School DxD
Yamada
Danmachi
Nisekoi
UBW if you want to stretch it a bit.

>>124878375
>Implying a benevolent dictatorship will give us superior Chinese Cartoons.

>>124882279
You forgot grisaia

>>124882353
Yeah, that too.

>>124875633
Those were glorious.

>>124881934
>since before you were born
I was born in 1956.

>>124882279
>UBW if you want to stretch it a bit.
Even OP's anus isn't stretched that wide.

>>124882433
I was leaning towards that he canonically fucks all the girls, and 4 girls give him a lot of affection, though two are gone now.

>>124876069
Holy shit, I just now noticed that. Moe-kun actually has good taste.

>>124882433
Rin, Saber, educated prostitute, Ilya, Issei,Taiga.
I know you have to defend your favourite eroge, but he wasn't too wrong.

>>124877675
they look like lanky giants that are learning how to walk for the first time

>>124877840
It's undoubtedly true that older anime has more variety at least.

>>124875633
Here are some recent shows people in the west will regard as classics in 20 years:
>Madoka
>Fate/Zero
>Shingeki no Kyojin
>Steins;Gate
>JoJo
>Sword Art Online
>*Monogatari
>Hunter x Hunter

These are the same kinds of shows that nostalgiafags today wish anime were still filled with. Too bad KyoAni killed anime forever in 2009 when it invented moe with K-on. Now we'll never see dark, mature action shows ever again.

>>124882279
>forgetting the biggest one of the season

>>124875633
Whatever happened to multi demographic appeal?

y'know, stuff like escaflowne

>>124883022
What a bunch of crap

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>>124883022
>S;G
>SAO
>SnK

>>124882427

i don't believe 60 year olds browse 4chan

>>124883079

attack on titan and s;g is good faggot

>>124883022
none of the shows you listed are "dark, mature action shows"

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>>124883164

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>>124883022

The problem with the industry is that it's full of otaku.

Miyazaki nailed it.

>>124883316
Miyazaki's never said this.

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>>124883340
Holy shit how fucking new are you?

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I think we all know who to blame.

>>124877054
>comparing film to TV

>>124883468
whether he said this or not, it's spot fucking on.

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kawaiifags killing the industry.

>>124876878
>why is every show not an animated film
Please kill yourself. You idiots always love forgetting that for every GiTS quality anime, there were about twenty full of fucking QUALITY and other shit.

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>>124883022
SnK was an original idea

But i sill wanna throw up when I associate it and the word classic together

>>124883069
>multi demographic appeal?
There are a couple anime like that airing right now. Whether you think they're good or not is an entirely different question though.

>>124883584
kawaii >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moe

>>124879352
You're a tad too late for that /a/non.

>>124883661
Nah, K-ON! sameface is far better than KEYshit.

>>124883661
It's literally the exact same thing. A general buzzword that babbies who wanted "muh serious fightan" anime applied to SoL, romance, or any show with a female main cast. It's the exact same narrow-mindedness, exact same lack of perspective on the industry as a whole.

>>124878459
Careful there. You sounds underage, /v/ermin.

>>124883631
>SnK was an original idea
>facebook
>edgy monster story where THE MC IS SECRETLY A MONSTER TOO EVERYONE IS A MONSTER HUMANS ARE THE REAL MONSTERS
>original

>>124883631
>SnK was an original idea
Here's a thought exercise: change Titans into giant robots but keep mostly everything else the same. How original is it now?

>>124875633
>let's make things that are popular
Wow, what an observation.

>>124883871
Giant robots attack humanity, and the main character later realizes he is actually a giant robot? Trainwreck of the year.

>>124883468
The Messiah of our time

>>124883584
They killed the industry so hard it experienced an unprecedented boom in production and sales through the late 90s and 00s. If growth has tapered off, it's plateaued at a level above anything the 80s anime industry could have believed possible.

>>124883933
>A mysterious enemy piloting giant robots attacks the Earth, and humans are powerless to stop their advance
>but the hotheaded MC discovers that he has the power to summon a giant robot that he alone can pilot
>later, other people also get giant robots.

>>124883069
We call that omnipandering now.

>>124883468
"Humans who can't stand humans". Damn, hard to argue that with how many waifus there are that do not act or look like any real girls. They may as well be walking onaholes.

>>124883661
Japs use "kawaii" as a normal compliment.
But "moe" is an otaku oriented word and it's mostly used ironically by them.

>>124883468
Typical Miyazaki. He has a vision for what he thinks anime should be, then criticizes the industry for not following it.

>>124884035
That applies to a lot of (non-mecha) shows/stories in general, though.
>thing attacks
>main character discovers he has the ability to fight the thing
>other characters later start fighting the thing too
Not that I think SnK is that original, but these are very broad similarities you're sketching.

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>>124875633
Gintama characters complaining how they aren't selling very well because they aren't moe enough or indeed moe at all.

>>124884069
So you're agreeing with him or not?

>>124884069
Yeah, because realism is the goal of fiction, right?

>>124884099
That's not what's being talked about. See >>124883584

The term "moe" only came into popular usage around the turn of the millennium, the very late 90s and early 00s. Prior to that, the same basic concept was called "kawaii" by anime fans, or the "culture of cute".

There are nuances to the word moe that only otaku care about, for most people it's a vague term you can apply to any series with cute girls.

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>>124877054

>>124884241
It it's depicting real objects, they should be at least similar.

>>124883022
>Madoka
>Shingeki no Kyojin
>Steins;Gate
>JoJo
>Sword Art Online
>>*Monogatari
>Hunter x Hunter
What's with all this shit taste?

>>124884241
there are realistic unrealistic characters and simply unrealistic characters

>>124884241
Art is 90% looking at things, anon. How do you expect to draw something if you don't know what it looks like?
This attitude of yours is the reason you can't draw.

>>124884241
There's a large number of people who believe that, in both Japan and the west. Invariably they are people who have pretensions about the "importance of fiction" and often crave the approval of intellectuals and snobs.

I think for Miyazaki, it's more that his aesthetics run toward old fashioned humanistic storytelling and modern anime culture is too insular and cut off from mainstream society to really connect with that.

>>124884192
I prefer not to give a straight answer, Why ruin the speculation?

>>124884241
Realism is not the goal, but it's a necessary component to make a fiction good.

>>124884326
Why? By this logic, why write fiction at all if reality is so important that it must be used as the standard against which fiction is measured?

>>124884376
>>124884361
>fiction
This is a wish-fulfillment medium and 'realistic' shit doesn't really offer wish-fulfilling shit.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. And that includes unrealistic shit.

>>124884376
Confirmed pleb.

>>124884415
Actually, in my experience, the very snobbiest have no attachment to realism and are the "style>everything" Harold Bloom types.

Considering how low budget most anime are, it is actually impressive what they can do with limited resources and time.

>>124884448
Cool opinion you got there.

>>124884376
>realism
>implying we're talking about art at all

god damnit, autism strikes again

>>124883022
Please no.
Maybe Madoka, even without being that good, for being the first mainstream Mahou Shoujo to go the dark-ish route.
All the rest is garbage, and hopefully time will prove that.

>>124884241
It is a goal of fiction yes

Would be rediculous to claim that there's only one goal of fiction wouldn't it?

>>124884448
So caricatures are bad satire? Over-the-top shit is bad? Experimental writing is bad? Visual-focused films are bad? Does this apply to all art? Do you hate impressionism and cubism?

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Anime has been copying earlier anime for years now and steadily decreasing in quality as result.

I really wish Japan had a cultural analogy to the Vulgate because then they'd know that 'a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy' just does not fucking work.

>>124882318
Chinese cartoons just happens to be the medium we seem to be caught in. In other circumstances it might be confucian philosophy and we might be as happy dedicating our live to that

>>124884486
Literary fiction is a bit different from film or animation in terms of what people strive for, but you're right about short fiction elitism in particular being very abstracted and irreverent these days. Still, there's a pervasive assumption that in order for fiction to be good it must somehow reflect reality in form or in content.

And if you press really hard about why that is, you'll find the reasoning has nothing to do with aesthetics and everything to do with some cobbled together philosophy about fiction.

>>124884415
I prefer to have my characters be somewhat grounded in reality, I hope that you don't think that's pretentious or something

>>124884569
>it is a goal of [some] fiction yes
There I fixed your post.

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How did we go from this

>>124884523
I guess you haven't read a lot of fictions then.

>>124884069
What if my waifu literally is a walking onahole? What then?

>>124882949
That is factually false. Entire genres were niche as fuck in the 80s. I am an oldfag saying that.

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>>124884628
To this.

>>124884624
Yes that is what I was trying to imply

Sorry if it wasn't clear

>>124884584
>I really wish Japan had a cultural analogy to the Vulgate because then they'd know that 'a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy' just does not fucking work.
Making completely original work doesn't work, as it usually flops.

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>>124884485
>>124884486
>>124884531
>This attitude of yours is the reason you can't draw.
Jimmies are always rustled when I spell it out for you like this. It's ok, I'm used to it.

>>124875633
>2014-present day: let's surpass gundam

>>124884651
Obviously it'll trigger them, /a/non.
Everything has to be as realistic as possible to pander to their shitty taste.

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>>124884571

>>124884612
>I prefer to have my characters be somewhat grounded in reality
Why though? Just for the sake of aping reality? What's the actual aesthetic appeal? Do you not even care HOW the characters mirror reality as long as they do in some way?

>>124884646
Try reading any modernists or worthwhile postmodernists, you fuck.

>>124882949
>70s
>less than 20 variation of shows in a decade
>more variety
This is what /v/ermins honestly believes.

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>>124884542
>time will prove that
Time only preserves the popular stuff, anon. Everything else will be forgotten.

>>124877313
it's been 3 hours, still no source on this

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>>124884628

to THIS

>>124884765
>>124877313
it's Gundam 2: Return of the Mobile Police Force.

Now get the fuck out.

>>124884796
is it a movie?

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ITT: shonen/seinen/grimdark fags BLOW THE FUCK OUT

anime = moe

now fuck off and thanks for the fish

>>124884712
>DRRRRR
IZAAAAAYAAAAA

>>124884712
I can give examples from everything I listed that I would say are obviously very good but completely contrary to realism. Care to say how you think I've missed the point?

>>124884685
That just makes your post completely irrelevant though.
Why point out that 'some' fictions happens to pursue realistic when the poster you're replying to obviously to referring to something that don't?

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>>124884827
I wouldn't mind if all anime is moe.
Everything else is usually shit anyway.

>>124884827
There's a lesson to learn here, and this is not it.

The lesson is that anime has not changed, it was shit before and it's shit now

consider the following.
girls like anime to.
so we need anime for girls guys

>>124884831
I think what he literally meant to say, is that the point follows a parabolic trajectory which does not intersect with a fictional version of you

>>124875633

the animator is a qt. I would marry him.

>>124884827
>implying
To whatever extent we want to apply manga demographics to seinen, most moe shit is definitively seinen.

>>124884571
Reading comprehension anon.

I said it's not the goal, but it's a necessary COMPONENT.

Not everything is black and white. It's not like it has to go full realistic or full unrealistic. You can't completely seperate those two.

What I mean is experience is necessary for one's imagination. That's all.

>>124884891
>a parabolic trajectory
Yes, Gravity's Rainbow is a great example, thank you, /lit/.

>>124884872
It's only shit for faggots who are triggered from unrealistic shit.
This year has been a lot better than the previous 2.

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>>124884770

Whatever you do, don't jerk off to this.

>>124884721
>Do you not even care HOW the characters mirror reality as long as they do in some way?

Why would I care about that?

>>124884827
Just give me seinen manga and Despera, and I'd be okay with eight million SoL and romance shows every season.

>>124884739
So that's all you've read, huh?
Understandable I think.

>>124883767
Nothing is better than Key shit

>>124884984
> it's a necessary COMPONENT
Yeah, so that would imply that non-realist works are all bad.

>>124883468
I'm sure glad he's offering this biting criticism while sitting on his retired ass after doing the same kind of movie for decades.

>>124885014
Well obviously, it has Gintama

>>124884986
I-I d-did not expect... anyone to make that c-connection

>>124884069
isn't that their whole purpose in the first place?

>>124885020
So if I filmed myself masturbating, it'd be a 10/10 masterpiece? You're as bad as the performance artists.

>>124884584
Originality is extremely overrated, and most anime do not even try to be original. You still do get a few original anime and manga that dare to be a little different, but most follow proven formulas and just riff on those.

And it's a good method, since it allows you to focus on execution rather than original content, and that's what makes anime enjoyable to watch.

>>124882949

Not really. You can complain about it all being the same shit, but there's about 4x more anime being produced now due to cost reduction from digital animation, and likewise there's a much bigger variety. In the same season, you have straight mecha shows, harem shows, sports shows, fujoshit shows, romance shows, action shows, comedy shows, SoL shows, action shows, fantasy shows, realistic drama shows..there's way more variety than you're seeing.

>>124885144
Wait, that was actually on purpose? My sides are gone.

>>124885089
>implying you can actually make something completely non-realism.

>>124885089
On the flip-side, it is impossible to make any work of fiction which is non grounded in reality, but this is a limitation of the human mind being in said reality.

>>124877054
lel

>>124875633
In other words, the same way as Disney.

>>124883022

The only one you mentioned that will be remembered for itself is Madoka; the rest are all adaptations. You are, in general, a fucking idiot.

>>124885211
you, sir, are welcome to peruse and harass /lit/ any day of the week.

>>124885213
He's just saying that you doesn't have to be gud at realism to produce good work.

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>>124885156
yes, that's exactly what i implied.

>>124877054
Whoever animated this should commit suicide

>>124883822

The Titan premise is fairly original. Not much else. It's the fact that the Titans mostly look like naked deformed people that's original.

>>124883598
Imagine though. If every show could look like a film and still not go overbudget.

>>124885316
>Yamakan begging for animators on twitter
>probably got the VAs to draw this

>>124885311
Not him, but it is what you implied.

>>124885020
Because appreciation of art is about aesthetics, not philosophy. But, it turns our you're just like the people I mentioned earlier, who don't actually have any aesthetic basis for preferring realism but do so out of some half-baked philosophical reasoning.

>>124877054

Why the fuck do people call this shit dancing.

It's not cute.

It's not entertaining.

It's teenagers and grown women acting like 3rd graders

>>124875633
In other words, the same way as Disney.

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People who complain about moe think that it's a worthwhile expenditure of their time to complain about an industry that produces dozens of shows and tons of comics a year not targeting them in every single instance.

>>124885213
If you really want to play with semantics, then saying that fiction is necessarily realist means that saying any non-realist fiction is bad is an empty truth.

Also,
>All known all white bare white body fixed one yard legs joined like sewn. Light heat white floor one square yard never seen. White walls one yard by two white ceiling one square yard never seen. Bare white body fixed only the eyes only just. Traces blurs light grey almost white on white. Hands hanging palms front white feet heels together right angle. Light heat white planes shining white bare white body fixed ping fixed elsewhere. Traces blurs signs no meaning light grey almost white. Bare white body fixed white on white invisible. Only the eyes only just light blue almost white. Head naught eyes light blue almost white silence within. Brief murmurs only just almost never all known.

>>124885219
It's a limitation of language, really. Barring logically necessary statements, everything you say draws on reality in some way.

>>124885442
That's idols for you. To this day I don't understand the cult around them. You can stick literally any half-way talented girl on stage in a ridiculous costume and within a month she'll have a legion of worshipers ready to devote their life savings to buying anything vaguely associated with her. And I just don't get it.

>>124885297
Well, maybe I shouldn't use the word "realism".

I mean to say that experience is important for one's imagination. The more you know, the more ingredient you have for your fiction.

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Manga>Anime movies/Ovas>Anime t.v>H-manga>VN>Eroges>LN>Web Novels

>OP starts a "WHAT HAPPENED TO ANIME" thread
>/lit/ takes over with debates about realism and aesthetics
This thread is gold.

>>124885464
I think most of them just don't like anime as a medium. They like a few individual anime series which are invariably dissimilar from the majority of anime, so the only conclusion you can draw is that they simply do not like anime as a whole.

>>124885475

See >>124885593

I think we should define realism before we go any further in this debate.

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>>124877675

>>124877054
Because market research trumps actual quality by a mile.

>>124885593
That makes your point's relevance to the original topic depends on your definition of experience though.
If you only qualify 'experience based on realistic human relationship' as the valid experience here, then you are mistaken.

>>124885593
What a platitudinous statement, and it's nothing but a retreat from the topic. From the start the point has been that the aesthetics of fiction are not evaluated by their adherence to reality.

>>124885669
Delete this.

Reminder that the greatest works of science and art are produced by autist-gods.

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>>124885028
These are all seinen magazines.

>>124885889
>dfw
>autist

>>124885806

Isn't that the oringinal point was?
>>124883468

Moe isn't a genre.

>>124886026
Have you seen his Charlie Rose interview?

>>124886005
He used seinen as a genre, so I just went with it.

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>>124886005
I love seinen.

>>124886078
No, this was >>124884069
Miyazaki's original statement can be seen many ways, as the responses to it show, but this particular interpretation of it, that fiction is evaluated by its adherence to reality, is what sparked this argument.

What's so bad about media that panders to me? I love being pandered to.

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>>124886005
This is my favorite seinen manga.

>>124886211
The people who are upset aren't being pandered to enough, that's why they're complaining.

>>124885475
>that passage
What the fuck is going on?

Looking for originality in anime is like looking for hot new recipes in a fish and chip shop.

>>124886429
You don't like stream of consciousness writing?

>Jaded ugly old man
>Decent looking young guy full of energy and enthusiasm for what he does
Your choice

>>124886187
Then I guess we were talking separately from the start.
My point was that fiction is just a recombination of the reality one experienced.

>>124880542
THIS
H
I
S
ALL HAILL OUR NEW CHUUNI OVERLORDS

>>124886657
>My point was that fiction is just a recombination of the reality one experienced.
This is just plainly false. Unless you take it in the most abstracted, irrelevant way, in which case you're just reciting platitudes again.

>>124886516
You do? IT's literal garbage taht deserves to go into the trash bin, where it belongs.

>>124886717
It was a rhetorical question m8. Try to keep up with the bantz.

>>124886764
>bantz

Go back to /int/ or /sp/ buddy.

>>124886657
What about stuff like >>124885475 ?

>>124884035
>enemy attack
>MC fights back!
>later other characters fight too!
wow everything ever is a rehash if I simplify more!

>>124886709
But if we don't take in the abstracted way, can we actually reach any conclusion? Is there anything that's not a platitude?

>>124885475
Well, that is not to say that there does not exist language for describing something that does not exist, sometimes it's a paradox (Berry paradox) so you do not necessary need to barr logically necessary statements either.

>>124886717
>not liking Beckett
>not liking Woolf
top pleb

>>124886882
The conclusion is pretty obvious: stop using reality as a metric to evaluate fiction and start arguing aesthetics.

>>124886882
that's quite trite

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>>124886920
>reading 20th century authors

>>124887009
what is aesthetics in anime?

>>124887095
>>124887009
>>124886882
>>124886709
>>124886657
>>124886187
>>124886078
>>124885806
>>124885593
>>124885297
>>124885213
>>124885089
>>124884984
>>124884571
>>124884448
>>124884241
>>124884069
>>124883468
>>124883340
>>124883316
The conclusion: The problem with the industry is that it's full of otaku

>>124886916
> that is not to say that there does not exist language for describing something that does not exist
It's all by analogy to our reality, though. Like, a unicorn doesn't exist, but I could talk about it, right. However, I would probably say it's a horse with a horn, or maybe an arrangement of such-and-such particles in such a way, but that's still a description relying on our reality - on horses or particles existing. Outside of necessary truths, our language stems from our experience of reality and refers to things in reality, so we can't say anything else that isn't grounded in reality.

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>>124887177
>The problem
for you

>>124887009
I think the point is reality is not the only metric but it's not irrelevant as well. Again, it's opinion vs opinion.

>>124887283
not even my statement, these guys just went full circle on themselves

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>>124887042
>not reading 20th century authors

>>124886461
Nothing is impossible.

>>124887429
Find me a four-sided triangle.

>>124887095
An aesthetic discussion in anime should focus on how effective its components are. If something works or doesn't work, if something is appealing, then try to explain why, or if its disagreeable, try to figure out why.

If ultimately your dislike of something boils down to
>it's unrealistic
Then we arrive back at one of my original points: why is that bad?

>>124887275
I'm not so sure our language HAS to refer to something which does exist, clearly the existence of something is indepedent of our ability to describe it

>>124887286
>it's not irrelevant as well
Again I ask: why is a lack of realism bad? There's this heavy implication that it is, yet there's no follow up reasoning. You just assume I'll agree that being "unrealistic" is an inherently negative attribute.

Saying something is "unrealistic" begs the question: what's the aesthetic value inherent in realism?

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>>124887493
Fuck.

>>124887600
>>124887714
Also I want to clarify something: I'm not saying realism has not aesthetic value, that's not what I'm implying. I'm asking you to justify your opinion with aesthetic arguments rather than an implied argument from authority where reality is greater than fiction.

Essentially prove to me you're arguing aesthetically and not just using top-down philosophical reasoning.

>>124887714
You guys should really make a local definition of realism or realisitic or real in the context of aesthetics for this discussion if you would like to reach any conclusion or satisfactory level of debate.

>>124886920
>>124885475
What if I say the whole "absurdist ficiton" is the biggest joke ever and people who consider it as "good" are just hipsters?

>>124887892
then you probably won't be taken seriously?

>>124887659
To be honest, I don't know what you're getting at. I'm saying that the inability of fiction to be completely ungrounded in reality has less to do with the limitations of the human mind and more to do with the limitations of language - if I could conceive of something completely unconnected to our reality, I would not be able to refer to it or describe it.

>>124887892
I say first that you are an idiot for dismissing everyone who writes on a certain theme when there are vast differences in style and ability between them, and second that you had better not be calling Woolf an absurdist.

>>124887821
I'm using this post >>124884069 as my conception of the opposing view point, so I guess for my argument "realism" means "reasonably comparable to what you might find in real life."

Or maybe something like "not contrary to common wisdom or accepted facts".

It's not a very literary or rigorous definition, but it's one I see thrown around a lot when ordinary people call this or that "unrealistic" in fiction.

>>124887992
Is being nihilist cool to you? I guess it is because it's on the analogy of your life.

>>124887821
I'd say "realist" is "aiming to mimic reality" and "realistic" is "succeeding in mimicking reality." Realist probably has more to do with the depiction than the subject, relative to realistic, I guess.

>>124883069
It's impossible to make something like One Piece, Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball, or even Gundam in terms of multi demographic appeal.

>>124875633
Moe shows outside of K-on haven't ever sold well. CGDCTs is usually <10k.
And animation quality is still generally up from the 80s and before, TV anime there were all stills and reused sequences

>>124888195
Have you actually read any absurdists?

>>124888297
Doraemon

>>124887714
Maybe realism has something to do with sympathism?
It depends on the tone of the fiction I think.

>>124888317
Have you? You can't even see the basic philosophy behind your favourite type of fiction?

>>124888297
Says some random guy on a message board.

>>124887993
Ok, i feel you are putting a lot of your cards on "completely ungrounded in reality", this just seems to mean that it is impossible by definition?

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tl;dr: Realism is real life 3DPD. Anime is 2D.

Even real life actors play unrealistic roles on their movies. So, stop asking for realism. If every fictional character were realistic there would be no Dragon Ball, no Superman, no Star Trek, no Lord of the Rings, no Hamlet. Fictional characters are inherently unrealistic, because that's what fiction is about.

About the body, it's only a matter of taste, some people prefer ugly waifus, others prefer more beautiful ones.

It's quite easy to understand.

>>124888608
Yeah, the Metamorphosis and The Stranger are totally nihilist, as is No Exit. Suck a dick, read some books, and learn what nihilism is.

I honestly do not like when characters have sex or are implied to.
It brings down a series a lot for me.

>>124888946
You are the one that should learn what nihilism is, nigga.

>>124889041
I drop anime that has that right away, like Sakurasou had that one guy.

>>124889041
So you only watch cute with doing cute thing with yuri subtext?

>>124887177
But without them there would be no industry

>>124889154
A song of Ice and Otaku

>>124888819
>stop asking for realism

Why? Both realistic and unrealistic fiction is good.

>>124888756
Not exactly - if it's impossible by definition, then that's different; . I mean, for example, qualia. Our language cannot describe what "purple" looks like, because "purple" has nothing to do with reality. Words refer to things in reality, and you learn their meanings through experience of that reality, so of course you can't write fiction that isn't somehow grounded in that reality, since there are no words for it, and even if you invented any, there would be no way to communicate them to others.

>>124889270
But "inventing words" is not something new in fiction.

>>124889051
I don't see how you can argue that Camus is a nihilist. I mean, really, almost no novelist is an authentic nihilist (maybe Cioran), but Camus isn't even close.

>>124889154
The anime industry would survive without otaku. The Japanese economy just needs to get better so that Otakus can find jobs.

>>124889422
then prove why, you fucking uless faggot

>>124888819
The excuse for not having engaging, compelling plots, situations, and characters, in a nutshell.

>It doesn't have to be good, it's made up anyway.

There are good and bad realistic elements, and there are good and bad fantastical elements. Most of the time, poorly done fantastical elements aren't redeemed by the default of the fantasy being genre.

>>124889492
>Implying otakus are all hikis

>>124889377
As I said, the issue with what I'm talking about is that even if you invented a word for it, you'd have no way to communicate it to people. I mean, if I say "hilk" means any crab that has been out of the water for over four hours, then you know what that means now. But if I'm talking about purple, and I say "merst" is how I personally experience purple, you don't gain that same understanding, do you?

>>124889526
>absurdists are nihilists
>no they aren't
>then prove it, you faggot
He fucking hated nihilism, and his whole thing was that people must revolt against absurdity.

>>124889562
Are all hikis otaku?

>>124889738
I think it's reasonable to assume that the probability of being an otaku is higher given that your are a hiki

This thread is stupid. Anime, especially tv anime or ovas made for adults, has always been for and by otaku. All the moe haters here are just nostalgic for a handful of shows but if they went back and rewatched those shows now I bet they would still find elements of those things they say are ruining anime now.

1. Moe is evil
2. There was no moe in Texhnolyze
3. Therefore, every show every season should be Texhnolyze.

>>124888315
There are still a good few recently that have sold well (NNB, GochiUsa, KinMoza). But you're right that it's a myth that CGDCT always sells.

>>124875633

Um the industry hasn't changed at all, they just aren't producing shows you like but then again no one in Japan gives a shit about you.

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>>124890975
>being sensible
>having perspective
>tfw no waifu