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Ok /a/ so let me get this straight: Anime is predominatly produced

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Thread replies: 103
Thread images: 5

Ok /a/ so let me get this straight:

Anime is predominatly produced in 720p, and after ~2000 it is also predominantly made digitally, so most 1080p files are really upscales of the 720p source.

BUT BDs are always 1080p, so when you get a 1080p BD rip it is "genuine" in the sense that whoever ripped it presumably did it properly, and they didn't upscale it themselves. However it doesn't mean that the source video is 1080p, since it could be an upscale of the raw 720p source. But that would mean that this upscaling would come from the raw, lossless video source, right?

TL;DR: Bottomline my question is: is 1080p BD worth it? In a purely theoretical, video encoding sense.

Also this is probably a Daiz summoning thread. Pic related, looks like shit, the 720p was probably the correct choice.
>>
Are you retarded?
Your stupidity really did not warrant a new thread.
>>
>>124839204
>Your stupidity really did not warrant a new thread.
Huh? What other thread?
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>>124839000
>BUT BDs are always 1080p, so when you get a 1080p BD rip it is "genuine"
This isn't true.
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>>124839390
Except it is, unless the BD is just a remastered version of an old anime.
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>>124839496
The opposite is true. If the source isn't digital it can be remastered in 1080p, but 720p anime on BDs will still look upscaled on the 1080p rips.
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Head over to the anibin blogspot.
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>>124839496
>>124839598
Wait, this is just making me more confused. So is it actually true that all BDs are natively 1080p? Like a BD player will only playback 1080p and up/downscale it depending on the monitor?
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>>124839880
I can't read nip. What is it about? Something about evaluating animation quality?
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>>124839901
Anon use your brain a bit.
If the anime was made at 720p or sometimes slightly above that(but still below 1080p), why would it magically become native 1080p when it is put on BD? The answer is that it doesn't unless it was mastered in that format to begin with.
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>>124840202
No no I read that when they're made into BDs, they're put in at 1080p. As in whoever is making and publishing these BDs is doing the upscaling themselves, in house. That's what I was told. And that's apparently true for all BD disks, they're all "natively" 1080p. But now that's starting to sound dumb and untrue because even wikipedia says that BDs are "up to" 1080p. Of course that also doesn't make, shouldn't it be by file size?
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What is the point of this discussion if most people can't even tell 1080p and upscaled 720p apart?
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>>124840478
Because /a/nons claim they can.
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>>124840478
Look at the OP and you tell me. Can you really not tell the difference?

And FYI OP Haruhi was produced in SD, so that's not a 720p upscale, it's a 480p upscale. You should have gone 480p.
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>>124840574
Well,if we are having this discussion on /a/ it is a prof that most of us can't.
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>>124840353
Go read through the archives and some of the posts Daiz has said upon the subject, but as you probably know CR and funimation run 1080p streams and these are representative of the native scale you will get on BD for the most part. Most shows are at 720p or sometimes maybe 900p. The only real exceptions you get are movies and the rare show like Nyarko.
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>>124840478
The difference is as plain as day on an HD monitor m8.
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>>124840478
You can if you don't have shit eyes
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>>124840736
>but as you probably know CR and funimation run 1080p streams and these are representative of the native scale you will get on BD for the most part
Yes I know that, but I'm more curious about the files on the BD. Technically they're made from the raw, uncompressed, pictures that make up the video, right? Like however big a lossless video is that's where they're from. So when THEY get put on a BD in 1080p, isn't that better than what CD or funimation does?
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>>124840843
The files being put on a BD don't really mean anything quality wise. Just look at the Steins;Gate BDs for an example with all the banding it has.
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>>124840956
Then is there a list of what studios do what? I know KyoAni does 1080p, but should I just always assume 720p because it will be the best quality?
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>>124841383
Well if you don't mind the file size if you are downloading the BD rips then there is no real problem with getting 1080p all the time, just you won't get much extra benefit out of it other than for movies and a few shows.
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>>124841383
anibin.blogspot.ca

Anibin is a good reference. Uses fast Fourier transform analysis to determine native resolution of shows.

Some basic moon required to navigate the site however.
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>>124841689
or a brain

I use it all the time by matching keywords/Japanese titles of whatever I'm looking for
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>>124841383
>KyoAni does 1080p

They don't. OP and ED are the only thing that is 1080p
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>>124841383
>KyoAni does 1080p
Except they don't. It's more like in the 900 range, better than the 720p but still.
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>>124842005
>>124842190
https://ultimatemegax.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/photography-and-resolution-of-anime/#more-3693

This is where I got that from. It Says JC Staff and Xebec are also starting to do shows in 1080p native.
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>>124842603
Like I said, KyoAni's Openings and Endings are in 1080p. That is it.
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>>124842603
Clearly that megax guy never touched AfterEffect and Retas a day in his life.
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>>124839000

Why does she sit like that?
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Would a 720p downscale of a 1080p BD look worse? Even if the raw source is 720p you're adding just another step of encoding where quality can get lost.
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>>124843300
Yes, if it's true that the native source on the BD is 1080p then downscaling the upscale will be another drop in quality. But not if the BD is encoded in 720p.
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>>124839880
>>124841689
How does this guy determine resolution?

How can he tell a 810p show from 815p?
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>>124844179
Fast Fourier Transform, the cornerstone of modern magic
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>>124843204
Maybe her vagina hurts
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>>124844298
I tried reading about it on wikipedia but I guess I'm too much of a commoner to understand it.
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>>124844427

You don't need to understand it, just try it out for yourself. There's plenty of tools available.
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>>124839000
>BUT BDs are always 1080p, so when you get a 1080p BD rip it is "genuine" in the sense that whoever ripped it presumably did it properly, and they didn't upscale it themselves.
It's better to inverse upscale the footage and upscale it back to 1080p with nnedi at any case. Why?
Because Bilinear and Bicubic are scaling algorithms that BD manufacturers use to upscaling footage to 1080p and they're pretty bad compared to nnedi.

>However it doesn't mean that the source video is 1080p, since it could be an upscale of the raw 720p source. But that would mean that this upscaling would come from the raw, lossless video source, right?
Yes.

>Bottomline my question is: is 1080p BD worth it? In a purely theoretical, video encoding sense.
Yes, if the show you want to watch is produced at a resolution greater than 720p.

>Would a 720p downscale of a 1080p BD look worse?
Yes but only if the footage was produced at a resolution greater than 720p because you'll lose details.

>Even if the raw source is 720p you're adding just another step of encoding where quality can get lost.
If you're not talking about lossless encoding then it's no use to talk about quality loss because what you want is lossy encoding and not using 100go for a 12-episodes series.

Anime this season with a resolution greater than 720p:
https://archive.moe/a/thread/124080298/#124081146 + Pikaia (1440x810) + Anime Mirai (Kumi to Tulip is 1600x900, Ongaku Shoujo is 1552x873, Happy ComeCome is 1488x837, Aki no Kanade is 1632x918)
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>>124844298
how the fuck would a Fourier Transform help determine resolution?
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>>124844427
Basically it's a way to process a signal. Based on the processing you get a lot of information about the signal itself.
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>>124844427
>>124844653
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Three_Dimensional_Electron_Microscopy/Fourier_transforms#Background_on_Fourier_Transforms

Just think of it as complex maths works it all out.
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>>124844653
I don't know video encoding but I do know fourier transforms. What he says is definitely possible.

When the digital signal is sent it contains information about what pixels should do what. If you know what you're doing it should be trivial to take that information and extrapolate how many pixels the data is capable of rendering.
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>>124844629
>It's better to inverse upscale the footage and upscale it back to 1080p with nnedi at any case. Why?
>Because Bilinear and Bicubic are scaling algorithms that BD manufacturers use to upscaling footage to 1080p and they're pretty bad compared to nnedi.
You lost me

>Bottomline my question is: is 1080p BD worth it? In a purely theoretical, video encoding sense.
>Yes, if the show you want to watch is produced at a resolution greater than 720p.
Ok so then let's take anime made between 2000 and 2010 as an example. This would be mostly 480p and 720p, correct? So you are saying that the 1080p rip is not worth it.

And in the image in the OP, that's really the 480p upscaled and I was an idiot for getting the 1080p, yes?
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>>124845103
>You lost me

a wizard did it, ok?
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>>124845156
Yes well beyond the fancy encoding theory and math behind it, I mean I don't know how to rectify it with your second statement. So if the BD itself is 1080p, regardless of the resolution of the source, the 1080p rip will be "better" than the 720p rip of the same BD? And it is "better" because it comes STRAIGHT from the BD, with no funny business from the encoder.

This is my current understanding but it's based on the assumption that all BDs are made at 1080p, regardless of the source.
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Why does /a/ get so fucking assblasted when it comes to 720 or 1080?
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>>124845405
>Why does /a/ get so fucking assblasted about anime

Gee I wonder
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>>124845405
Got to have the best quality while not wasting HDD space that can be used for more anime.
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>>124845405
No one is getting mad in here.
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Kyoani and other studios actually animate in 960 something. Its not exactly 1080p but getting a 720p rip doesn't show the full quality.
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>>124845405
/a/utism.
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>>124845103
>You lost me
Basically fansubbers can perform better 1080p upscale than official guys.

>Ok so then let's take anime made between 2000 and 2010 as an example. This would be mostly 480p and 720p, correct? So you are saying that the 1080p rip is not worth it.
Yes.

>And in the image in the OP, that's really the 480p upscaled and I was an idiot for getting the 1080p, yes?
And yes, OP pic is SD-tier. Pretty sure it's upscaled from 480p.

>>124845527
Episode part is 955p and OP/ED are 1080p.
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>>124845574
>Basically fansubbers can perform better 1080p upscale than official guys.
Honestly I don't even question this because anime fansubbing is like the fucking cutting edge of video encoding. You've got Daiz on /a/ and then haasn on /g/ who does mpv. Anime drives innovation.

Good to know though, I'll download 720p. I have a 1440p monitor so I really should have done that in the first place for dat perfect integer upscaling.
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>>124845341

Most 1080p releases are reencodes anyway so unless you get a BD50/BD25 lossless rip, you might as well get the 720p encodes.
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>>124845724
> for dat perfect integer upscaling.
I really hope you're not planning to use nearest neighbor. 720p > 1440p is ideal for nnedi3 though.
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>>124839000
As many already said, it depends on the show. And it’s not just limited to BDs, in many cases you should already get 1080p HS. Simulcasters don’t really do anything to limit the resolution. You get pretty good quality, almost always better than TV rips.
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>>124845968
I have no idea what either of those things are, all I know is that 1440/2 = 720 so that means it's good.
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>>124845724

it's really annoying to watch western tv show releases since they all look like shit

daiz why can't you do game of thrones or some shit
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>>124846086
Different scaling algorithms. Nearest neighbour is quick but gives pretty horrible quality, while nnedi3 gives fairly good quality but is resource intensive.

>>124846402
He already did for the BDs of the first season. 10bit and everything making the comments on it hilarious.
https://pirateproxy.sx/torrent/7140312/Game_of_Thrones_Season_1_(BluRay_1080p_MultiSub)_[FtR]
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>>124846086
Nearest neighbor while going from 720 to 1440 will make every source pixel into 2x2 square. While it seems to sound nice, that will just produce jaggies.
nnedi3 is an advanced algorithm that can only scale x2, but has great quality.
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>>124846729
>making the comments on it hilarious.

Holy kek, this IS hilarious.
>THIS ENCODE IS CRAP (N)

>WHEN I PLAY THIS ON VLC THERE ARE BLOCKS ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!11!!!

>NOT WORTH 44,93 GB

>AVI > MP4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MKV

>MKV IS SHIT
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>>124844315

From what?
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>>124847119
the fact that they us VLC already proves they are retarded
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>>124848545
There's nothing wrong with VLC, Coalgirls recommends it and they are the best BD group around, except when Tenshi is encoding.
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>>124848630
>Coalgirls recommends it
Coalgirls recommends mpv now. They say if you just want a dumb player that werks get VLC, but if you want good playback and you're willing to spend 5 minutes configuring mpv it's worth it.
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File: 1080p.png (1MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
1080p.png
1MB, 1920x1080px
I wonder how many threads we'll have before people understand that native 1080p is extremely rare and BDs are just upscales.
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>>124842603
I'm pretty sure Nyaruko-san was the only one Xebec animated in full HD while JC Staff has already done it several times (Souma this season, for example).
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>>124848898
That wasn't my question though, I fully acknowledge that anime is produced in 720p or at least less than 1080p.
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>>124848898
>extremely rare
Well, if you really want 1080p and no pixel less, yeah, but most productions nowadays are a bit above 720p, so getting 1080p is worth it quite often.
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>>124845527
>>124845574
Actually Anibin calculates KyoAni shows as 955.5p because of filters that blur the lines to make it blend better, but they're actually produced in 1080p.

https://ultimatemegax.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/photography-and-resolution-of-anime/
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>>124848987
Your thread is pretty pointless, then.
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>>124849010
no only the OP and ED
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>>124849059
thanks for all that proof
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>>124849017
ok
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>>124849059
read the top right corner
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>>124849190
The answer is obviously no, is what I'm saying. Even though a fair amount of series are now produced above 720 blowing it up to 1080, BD or otherwise, is pointless.
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>>124848630
>Coalgirls
>best BD group around

Nigger what?
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>>124849305
Do you know any active BD group better than them?
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>>124849231
comp size =/= footage resolution
I wish ultimatemegax would stop spreading misinformation by writing about shit he has no idea about.
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>>124849254
Ok yeah you didn't understand my question. When the BD is made, it's made from THE source. It's made from the thousands of pictures used to create the video, and encoded into the BD. So, my question was, since it is an upscale of the original lossless video file, will the 1080p upscale be "better" because it was done by professionals.

But >>124844629 effectively answered my question. The answer is no, not because the 1080p is an upscale, the answer is no because the people who made the BD are shit at encoding, so downscaling it to 720p is actually better quality.

I still feel like it was a legitimate question that deserved a better answer than "it's upscaled so bad".
>>
Nigga just download the 1080p version.
Worst case scenario you lose a couple gigabytes.
Best case scenario, you get to watch everything in the highest quality available.

These are the same retards that think there's no Season 3 for Haruhi, because of Aya. There's no reason to take the risk and trust they know what they're talking about at all.
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>>124847119
Do you realize that most of these comments come from /a/?
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Why hasn't the anime industry converted to full HD?
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>>124849529
Why would they? It's not really worthy.
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>>124849365
I don't use after effects but I'm fairly certain the 1920x1080 in the upper right hand corner is the resolution of the video file. I have no idea what show that is, KnK? Chuuni? It could still be the OP/ED, but it's in 1080p.
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Why didn't Shirobako give me an explanation of this?
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>>124849457
I understood your dumb question and answered it simply. That poster just gave a drawn out explanation of my same answer.
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>>124849560

The same reason for all other visual media using higher resolutions.
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>>124849565
That's in season 3.
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>>124849641
Again, it's expensive and not really worthy.
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>>124849565

wait for season 2 anon.
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>>124849569
But the answer isn't "upscales are bad". That's the answer to a completely different question that wasn't asked.
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>>124849715
Why is it expensive? Don't you just scan the drawings at a higher resolution?
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>>124849759
Because you need more detailed drawings and it takes more time to produce.
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>>124849759
Won't the drawings look shittier because of the higher resolution? It increases the quality control needed.
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>>124849529
It's the software issue.
Retas works best when scan the animation paper at 144 dpi which give you 950p.
Scanning paper in higher dip than than will produce artifacts like random dots, disconnected line, wrong line color when traced with Retas which takes a lot of time to fix.
>>124849564
>I don't use after effects but I'm fairly certain the 1920x1080 in the upper right hand corner is the resolution of the video file
Well I use After Effects and I know it's not the footage resolution. You get the 1080p output when render but the animation footage you work with could be something that's not 1080p.
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>>124849363
>active
Fair enough.
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>>124850046
It's a shame but they are the only option most of the time.
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File: retas traceman.png (64KB, 1366x701px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
retas traceman.png
64KB, 1366x701px
>>124849922
Example of the said artifacts.
Could also blame it on the bad inbetweener but you get the point.
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>>124839000
Different studios have their own standards when it comes to the actual scan & render resolution of their animation.
Most studio out there still render at 720p.
Example
Usually kyoani is scan/rendered 900p and 1080P for their OPs.
J.C staff at 720p to 1080p.
>>
Frames like this led me believe just OPs/EDs are full 1080p. Nowhere else in KyoAni shows have I seen lines as sharp as Tamako's nose here. K-ON! movie also had this sharpness.
>>
>>124849010
>>124849365

Tried to write this post in the comments section of that blog some days ago, but ultimatemegax blocked it (1/2):

>Sorry, but isn't it quite precipitated to rule RURIN work as erroneous here using no true evidence about his sampling methods? And no evidence beyond your possible explanation here?

>Because an example of only a mere asset being worked on (of others that could be composited into an image, and if non-vectors worked on at variable resolutions too) showcasing image pixel density info and during just one step of the workflow, plus your assumption that added image "filters" somehow alter heavily the spatial frequency data of an image, isn't enough to dismiss in this manner a fairly decent approximative solution.
>>
>>124852880

Tried to write this post in the comments section of that blog some days ago, but ultimatemegax blocked it (2/2):

>We have to take into account that; a) Kyoto Animation and associated photography and video editing production companies use different solutions during said workflow (in the case of KyoAni, apart from After Effects we have seen them patently demonstrate an use for RETAS!PRO suite utilities like PaintMan, or Autodesk Maya 3D) that could affect their final output, and b) that the 2-D Fourier transform and the resulting spectrum (understandable approach to it here; http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Basic_Physics_of_Nuclear_Medicine/Computers_in_Nuclear_Medicine#The_Fourier_Transform_-_A_Pictorial_Essay) used on RURIN analysis should be able to denote picture artifacts, such as layered effects with a known fixed radius, and better yet as long as multi-sampling is used (continuous line-art isn't fundamental, but per-pixel brightness information).

>And even then I think this article doesn't ultimately demonstrate either why there is a discrepancy of image resolution analysis, that RURIN notes, on some of their series between their OP/ED and the rest of the episodes' footage.

>All in all, we can't be sure of the exact situation unless we understand clearly how the process is done (we'd have to personally ask, of course!), and have to be aware of how this kind of speculation doesn't help in creating a truly well informed report that securely refutes the exhibited arguments.

All you need to know about that person, spreading bullshit as if his fanboy word is wisdom, and not even letting others contest a thing.
Thread posts: 103
Thread images: 5


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