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Which transformation was the biggest asspull?

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Which transformation was the biggest asspull?
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>>124712067
Gon
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>>124712067
Gold Experience Requiem
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>>124712067
Gear fourth wasn't an asspull at all, it emerged from his two years of training
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>>124712067
Naruto's was the only one that made sense
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>>124712067
Where's Gon?
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>>124712240
I never said it was. I personally love gear fourth.

I was just asking which one /a/ thinks is an asspull of these four
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then again,3 four months.
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>>124712278
You said which one was the biggest asspull. That implies that everyone of those transformation you just posted are asspulls.
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>>124712067
>Naruto's transformation
>Asspull

It was terrible, but they'd been building up to it for a long-ass time.
>>
>>124712160
gons was a fucking shitshow, it with him caving in her skull by repeatedly punching it and then got his arm ripped off by her corpse.
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>>124712253

funny I would say that Naruto's powerup is the odd one among those, both Goku and Ichigo had a bunch of powerups before those so reaching another transformation was highly expected, Luffy's makes sense in universe and there really isn't anything over the top about (compared to the other options) but Naruto's was a complete over the top powerup for the sake of making him way too op despite having other options in universe and already having a powerup that could have easily been expanded via extra jutsus/skills.
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>>124712067
Gear 4th was justified by the timeskip we had a while back. We've been waiting to see the results of that for ages and knew Luffy had some kind of ace up his sleeve.
It's also fucking hilarious.

Naruto's was fine.

Super Saiyan Super Saiyan God is really fucking stupid and unnecessary, though the asspain it caused with the Dragon Ball Z fanbase was fun.

I don't read Bleach.
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>>124712206
>Implying there wasn't any "We need to use the arrow on our stand(s) to defeat Diavolo"
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>>124712067
>Reminder that if you don't like Gear fourth you are not a true fan of One Piece.
>>
>>124712067
gear 3rd & 4th, shit piece is full of asspulls
>>
>>124712160
Gon's was good because of the massive backlash it had against him, and Pitou still managed to damage him. I think it was a justified sudden powerup because of how hard it fucked him up afterwards.
>>
I love Luffy and all but christ Oda Luffy looks like fucking shit compared to everyone else.
>>
>>124712454
For you
>>
beserk's armor
>>
>>124712468
Bleach is an even bigger asspull, you really shouldn't read it they had no way to beat the big bad so they made some shit up and then the MC trained for 4 months in like 1 second and then won.
>>
>>124712532
>This character has rubber powers and can inflate himself!
>He used it to inflate his bones and make himself a bouncy rubber ball!

The only gear that's asspull-y is Gear 2, which came out of nowhere and barely involves his rubber abilities.
>>
>>124712160
>>124712265

Nen covenants you fucking retards, it's the same shit as Kurapika's chains. Learn to pay some fucking attention when the show is explaining shit to you.
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>>124712674
Hint hint: [Spoiler]They were all asspulls[/spoiler]

Shit Piece is full of them m8, get used to it.
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Ichigo > Naruto >>> Luffy > Goku

Luffy and Goku weren't asspulls at all, Luffy didn't do anything new with his powers just applied them differently which he learned during training. Goku's transformation is literally just super saiyan while having the God ki, it's completely in line with the established powers.
>>
>>124712648
The way Ichigo got it was bullshit but the power itself wasn't in any way shape or form now that we know about his Quincy heritage. The fact FGT is basically a bastardized Letz Stil like what Uryuu used a hundred or so chapters ago means that a precedent was set before.

We just didn't have the whole picture at the time, just hints so it SEEMED like a pure asspull.
>>
>>124712067
lol what the fuck happened to luffy?

glad I jumped off that train
>>
>Only one person pointing how how horrible the Bleach asspull was

He trained for what were a couple of minutes in the real world and suddenly he got a power that completely overpowered Aizen's God power which took him like 400 chapters of prep.

It was the asspull to end all asspulls.
>>
>>124712067
Honestly those generally aren't asspulls. They make sense in the context of the show.
>>
>>124712067

To try and be objective as possible... probably Ichigo and that Final ultimate whatever the fuck power he used to beat Aizen.

That whole final fight between Ichigo and Aizen was one big asspull fight. What with Aizen getting new powers every chapter due to having a living wish granting machine in his chest and Ichigo gain so much power to confront him that he had to immediately lose it at the end of the arc in order to not ruin the rest of the story.
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>>124712926
didnt he train for 3 months?almost on Freeza's level!
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>>124712886
It's retarded how he became a transcendent of an higher scale than even Aizen at his peak. It was bullshit, even Ywach isn't hinted to be that powerful.
>>
>>124712926
Time distortion magic
Also it took his powers

The asspull was that he got them back
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>>124712886
Yeah the power fits in to the story but just making up the ROSAT and shoving it into the story to obtain that power and then never bringing it up again was fucking stupid.
>>
>>124712160
How? that shit was foreshadowed years back during in the Yorknew arc.
>>
>>124712160
>>124713039
Yup we saw Kurapika's teacher explain Nen to him and they established the bigger the offering the stronger the power so it made perfect sense.
>>
>>124712468
It was necessary to sell more merchandise and DLC.
>>
I can't believe people are calling Ichigo's an asspull, by now it has been CLEARLY established that anything less than an asspull is an aberration in the world of Bleach.
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>>124712749
Natural progressions in a powerset as straight forward as "this guys body is made of rubber" aren't asspulls. Luffy's power is stretching and he's just stretching different parts of his anatomy now.
Whine about shit like Usopp developing haki, asura, diable jambe, Zoro's "breath" or Law's ridiculous immortality power.
>>
Ichigo's was Bullshit.
Naruto's was lead up to for the longest time.
Goku's was kind of bullshit, but considering it's Dragonball Z, you really should've expected it to the point that the writers probably thought no one could possibly not expect something like that.
Luffy's was pretty much in the middle of bullshit and not bullshit, being just a regular old powerup that doesn't go either way.
>>
>>124712926

That was because Kubo wrote himself into a super sized plot corner.

Aizen at that point in the story was a master illusion maker, immortal, and had that thing in his chest that kept giving him new powers every few pages. AND the rest of the present cast had already been beaten.

That whole final fight was a textbook definition of "Only the author can save them now!"
>>
Oda tries too hard to be "wacky, unique and quirky!!" and that annoys me more than any bullshit.
>>
>>124712994
Maybe, but considering Uryuu in Letz Stil one-shot Mayuri and his bankai back when he was probably only vice-captain or lower in power shows how much of a jump it gives for a one time burst.

Given Ichigo being some Frankenstein's monster of the Bleach world, it is consistent. And considering Aizen survived it at his peak says a lot about how powerful he actually was despite Ichigo being a transcendental above him.

The Dangai training stuff was some straight up Hyperbolic Time-Chamber tier plot device bullshit.
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>>124713131
How long do you think it took him to realize that he literally made Aizen unbeatable, at some point he must have realized that the immortal character that can control all of your sense if you've seen his weapon even once at any point was fucking stupid
>>
>>124713256
well,the time thingy was established pretty early on.

the convenience was Aizen BTFO the Soul Train thing.
>>
>>124713032
>Time distortion magic

So asspull. It only took his powers because he willingly got rid of them with his final attack. It completely undermines Aizen going out of his way to achieve his god power when he could have done whatever Ichigo did.
>>
Shouldn't Naruto Gaiden new chapter be out by now?
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>>124713352
It's Golden Week nothing is coming out this week.
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>>124713160
Thats the whole point of the manga, autist.

If you want something edgy go read naruto or bleach
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>>124713385
Oh yeah I forgot.
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>>124713329
Yeah that's what I meant. It was TOO convenient.

>mfw it was Aizen's keikaku all along

>>124713299
Apparently he didn't considering that he made Yawach able to see the future.
>>
>>124713160
This should have been obvious by Orange Town when the main villain was a goofy clown pirate with a lego body.
Saying you couldn't get into One Piece because of its quirkiness is perfectly reasonable but I have no idea how you can read to the late 700's and still bitch about it.
>>
>>124713160
Oda doesn't try to be wacky, he just is
>>
>>124713436
iirc his Keikaku was

>Make Ichigo reach 100% of his genes
>Beat him
>Eat him (???)
>Rest of Plan
>>
Yusuke's transformation.
>>
>>124712160
the only asspull about Gon's transformation was the fact that they healed him right after. If they left him without Nen, it would've been great.
>>
>>124712160
This.

> B-but he got fucked up good afterward.
And he got better, so ?

> It's coherent with what Nen is.
Still a fucking asspull.
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>>124713570
We still don't know about his nen though, he hasn't used it since.
>>
>>124713299

That why at the end of the day Kubo is and always will be one of the worst mangaka currently around.

You can like Bleach and think its great. You can enjoy the characters/fan-service. Its nothing personal to anyone that likes to read Bleach. Its great to have something you enjoy.

But that doesn't change the fact that Kubo is a terrible writer.
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>>124713608
UPDATES NEVER
>>
>>124713570
No, the whole thing was an asspull and retconed how nen contracts work.

>Kurapika offers his life
>doesn't die
>Gon offers his future
>loses his future
>>
I just wish /a/ would stop using buzzwords as their main way to try to communicate.
>>
>>124713667
You obviously don't understand how the concept works, you fucking retard.
>>
>>124713714
Says the retard who can't even offer a counter argument to prove me wrong. Because one doesn't exist. And that's not even getting into the fact that Gon never even learns how nen contracts work in the story.
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>>124713714
Kurapika was a huge asspull, there's only one attack he's restricted to use. And if his eyes change colors he can become proficient at every type of nen. All that allows him to become as strong as a triple star hunter and to fulfill his sole purpose in life without losing anything.
>>
How is SSGSS even an asspull

Something being fucking awful or unnecessary doesn't mean it's an asspull.
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>>124713667
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say but you clearly don't understand the concept. They work the same way, just on different scales. Gon exchanged more than Kurapika so his consequences are different.
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>>124713777
Kurapika fucking explains it to him in Yorkshin. There's an entire scene of them sitting down to discuss it. Even if Gon didn't know, it wasnt a conscious decision so it would've happened anyway since that's how nen works.
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>>124712067
>luffy becoming a giant rubber ball and using haki in conjunction with his rubber properties
>asspull

I dont think you know what that word means
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>>124712471
It was still fucking insane.
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>>124713667
Kurapika offered his life IF he used certain powers against anyone that wasn't the spiders not all of his nen, if he tried to use emperor time against someone who is not a spider then yes he would lose his life, Gon offered his future to gain his full potential for a moment and he got that potential and then lost his future, is it really that confusing?
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>>124713889
>Gon exchanged more than Kurapika so his consequences are different.
Him exchanging more doesn't make a difference as explained when nen contracts were introduced unless Gon broke his pledge, another thing the story never explains what it was.

>>124713925
>Kurapika fucking explains it to him in Yorkshin
He doesn't.

>it wasnt a conscious decision
Asspull/retcon since no where in the story is it indicated you can make one subconsciously.
>>
>>124712067
Naruto's transform isn't an asspull, since he was working to control the fox since the very beginning of Shippuden and it was clearly coming eventually.

Still doesn't make him any more tolerable or his manga/anime any less awful though.
>>
>>
>>124714124
Gon's covenant didn't involve a punishment for breaking a rule, he just exchanged 'everything' for massive strength. Kurapika included that restriction for extra power, but didn't get anywhere near Gon's strength.

When Gon said he'd give up everything, it wasnt unconscious in the sense that he didn't have to set his own vow and limitation, it was unconscious in the sense that he didnt plan ahead or decide to make a vow, he just did it because his resolve was that strong.

Think harder about what happened instead of expecting it to be spoonfed to you.It sounds like you need everything literally spelled out for you to understand how things work.
>>
Kaito coming back to life was more of an asspull than anything.

>He doesn't like to die so his nen power is I'm not gonna die
What the fuck is even the point?
>>
Can I play too?
>>
>>124712067
Gear 4th without a doubt.

Not only is it a gigantic asspull, it looks retarded as fuck.
>>
>>124714553
Asspull as literally a mechanic of cosmos.
>>
I dont follow Naruto or One Piece.
That being said DB and specially Z is based in asspulls and making the characters more powerfull without any real reason, same thing with Bleach really.
Now, Bleach is the bigger offender since that shit came out of nowhere and they couldnt maintain the whole Ichigo would renounce all his shinigami power which was bullshit since he got power-upped yet again (making it the 5 transformation after shinigami, vizard, fullbringer, hollow and shinigami again).
>>
>>124712994
Until now Ywach hasn't been stoped
And when he was he just curbstomped everybody
That character is asspull personified
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>>124713601
>Still a fucking asspull.

How. Because you said so?
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>>124714989
He is "A". ... like asspull?
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>>124715004
Because retards think powerup is synonymous with asspull and don't pay enough attention to what they're watching so they get surprised by them.
>>
>>124714092
>Silver Chariot goes REQ
>A sword wielding stand becomes a silent marcher that is literally a shadow and causes all organisms nearby to randomly swap bodies and evolve into other creatures
>This is insane
>>
>>124712067
Goku and ichigo.
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>>124712067

Ichigos is probably the worst but it still looks the coolest

A+ Kubo
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>>124713601
>a good reason why not it's not an asspull
Still a fucking asspull
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>>124712067
The only one thats an asspull is jesus genes
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>>124712067
Bleach was pretty bullshit but Naruto got his power because a ghost/alien/God told him he was actually a descendant of ninja Jesus so I will go with that one
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>>124713777
Here's a counter argument you nigger

Kurapica gave himself a strict set of restrictions on his nen powers, allowing him to have enough power to take on the phantom troupe

Gon sacrificed his health (turning him into a vegatble), his talent, and his ability to ever use nen again in order to temporarily become the most powerful nen user on the planet. THAT is the fucking difference. More power = greater sacrifice. Try not jerking off while you watch anime and actually pay attention next time
>>
>>124717230
Still better than Ichigo "I am actually 1 of everything" Kurosaki.
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>>124713634
Kubo is good when he tries. He hasn't been trying for the last half decade.
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>>124717246
>Gon sacrificed his health (turning him into a vegatble), his talent, and his ability to ever use nen again

Well good thing we had this asspull to fix the situation
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>>124717309
Well to be fair Naruto at one time had:

His mother, his father, a giant demon fox, a frog and Itachi living inside of him.
>>
everything past the Cell Games
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>>124712067
gon and ichigo are in the same boat. A one time asspull powerup.
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>>124712206
When will this meme die? The entire fucking series is based around asspulls yet this is the one that you fagggots bring up? Part 5 may be absolute garbage but but the final act was the best thing about it
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>>124717393
No what I mean.
Ichigo is a Shinami/Hollow/Quincy(Human) Hybrid.
>>
>>124713961
AND THEN THE FORM WAS NEVER SEEN AGAIN. "Lol im actually a demon kk?" is about as bad as naruto
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>>124712206
Act IV was the only one without asspulls, actually it had one and the fucking villain got it and they still won because that arc was GOAT
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>>124717357
Just wait til Alluka becomes relevant as a calamity, she's gonna be worth it.

But really, it took an entire arc of conflict just to get Alluka to heal Gon, she split the shotas up, and Gon still can't use nen. That's enough trouble that I don't feel like she fixed things too easily.
>>
>>124713482
You talkin' shit about out lord and savior?
you talkin' shit about his nose?
>>
>>124712206
The arrow grants the user what they want at that fucking moment. Just like kira wanted a means of not get caught, and gio's wish for him to defeat king crimson
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>>124713961

This one hurts the most because Chapter Black was such a great arc. For it to end this way was bullshit.
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I can't believe people are arguing over which is the biggest asspull between those 4 series. Naruto is definitely the worst fuckin offender and you shouldn't say otherwise. Yeah Goku had super sayian power up out of nowhere or with Ichigo's I'm mixed with lots of shit. But The very fuckin fact that Naruto at the fuckin end could heal any mother fucker at a touch of a finger is the biggest asspull. He literally became Jesus due to that Alien bullshit. At least the other series didn't bring some Alien bullshit out of nowhere.
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>>124717585
It was still an asspull of the worst kind. Wish granting is the worst way to write yourself out of a corner.

I will give him props because the wish granting is coupled with extreme danger so that abuse should be minimal
>>
>>124717707
>At least the other series didn't bring some Alien bullshit out of nowhere.
>While writting about Dragon Ball.
>>
>>124717807
The problem wasn't that Alluka could grant wishes, it was that Killua could bypass it. It was actually really fucking cool at first, asking for organs and shit was creepy as hell. That did write him into a corner, but I don't foresee repeat uses since Killua's against it and Alluka is a disaster waiting to happen. I don't mind a little asspulling if it's balanced with resulting conflict, it's not like it's some dbz magic wishes shit where people are revived constantly.
>>
>>124717707
While I agree, Dbz is literally the definition of 'alien bullshit'
>>
>>124712067
The last transformation/training of Ichigo just before beating Aizen. Nothing can be worse than that.
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>>124717707
>alien bullshit
>not listing DBZ as the worst offender
You are trying too hard to fit in.
>>
>>124712067
I can forgive every ass pull in JJBA except for Jotaro's "lol i can stop time too" bullshit.
>>
>>124712067
>Luffy
Trained and developed it over two years, makes sense in universe.
>Goku
Combines an ability he had long mastered with one he just developed, makes sense in universe.
>Ichigo
Plot is basically about how absurdly quick his power grows. Spends three months training to develop the transformation and it causes him to lose his powers.
>Naruto
Dies and meets the ghost of a matricidal messiah, gains a suite of abilities that have nothing to do with anything he's learned, no need to get used to his new power, comes with an energy refill, full heal and resurrection. Makes sense in universe.

Naruto was the biggest
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>>124718408
I mean DIO was beyond overpowered no other power introduced could even come close so what other option was there.
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>>124713341
It's not an asspull. Kubo established that time is fucked between the worlds in the SS arc.
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>>124718455
>get power from all the bijuu's
>uses their abilities with their help
>doesn't make sense
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>>124718606
>doesn't make sense
How is opposite day treating you?
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>>124714006
gear fourth allows luffy to take even haki powered attacks with ease, because his haki covered skin maintains it's elasticity
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>>124718656
You need to step up in your reading comprehension.
>>
>>124718728
You need to step up yours, all I did was copypaste, you manged to find the exact opposite of what I typed.
>>
>>124718606
Bijuus have nothing to do with the fact that the sage who's been dead for centuries transferred his chakra and abilities to Naruto and Sasuke with 0 reasoning and 0 drawbacks out of nowhere.
>>
>>124718578
Doesn't matter how long he trained. He simply became god tier beyond god tier, despite the nature of his powers being of an higher scale than Aizen for no good reason.

Again, why didn't Aizen do this if he could have gained power superior than the Hogyouku.
>>
>>124712067
I fail to see how gear 4th or FGT are ass pulls
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>>124719184
Because Aizen wasn't one third shinigami, one third quincy, and one third hollow?
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>>124719184
>Again, why didn't Aizen do this if he could have gained power superior than the Hogyouku.
FGT has "final" in its name for a reason. Like he'd be willing to sacrifice his powers forever just for a temporary power boost.
>>
>>124712160
/thread. laughing at the moronic HxH fanbase damage control
>>
>>124720390
>doesn't understand how nen works
>calls other people moronic
>>
Really is funny how many people are still expecting HxH to actually go anywhere at this point.
>>
>>124712344
what? Her dragon force was already explained
>>
>>124719020
>0 reasoning
They're the reencarnations of his sons. That power was meant for them before they were even born.
>>
>>124712067
Luffy because that shit looks ridiculous
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>>124722866
the only thing bad about it is the pattern and the eyes
other than that it is not an asspull
>>
itt: no one understands what an asspull even is
>>
In order of most to least

Goku >>>>>> Naruto > Ichigo >>> Luffy

Naruto and Ichigo's are incredibly similar and not surprising at all though.
>>
>>124721099
It's been having constant hiatuses for a decade or so and it's still going. If Togashi wanted to end it he would, just like with YYH.
>>
>>124712648
So Ichigo is Freiza?
>>
people that bash bach for his asspullery totally forgot how final form madara was defeated
>>
>>124712532
>>124712749
>still being a pathetic faggot
You're really a cancerous faggot.
>>
>>124712749
Typical HxH babyfag.
>>
>>124712067
Honestly, every one of those transformations are among the highest quality in the entire medium.

Asspulls are great. I think Naruto's is probably the biggest asspull though. He unlocked Jesus mode by... meeting the ghostninja of christmas past?
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>>124717707
no Naruto is the worst because it hasn't ended yet.
>>
>>124712516
>reminder that if you're a fan of one piece you have shit taste
>>
DBZ is easily the overall worst offender.

The main characters power is literally "get stronger when you're losing"
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>>124712160
Thread over.
>>
anime Kaneki
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>>124725297
And?
Basically every shounen MC has that power, only it's never stated like it is in dragonball.
>>
>>124720114
>>124720265

Isn't that the definition of an asspull?

Aizen was already a Diablos ex Machina character at that point. What with being immortal, illusion master, and gaining new powers every chapter.

Ohhhh whats this? Why Ichigo after visiting the Bleach equivalent of the hyperbolic time chamber is now able to surpass this god like power?

Guys... come on... its an asspull. Kubo wrote himself into a corner by making Aizen too strong too quickly. This isn't a matter of being right or wrong. Its just that Kubo did a bad job setting it up and was forced to do a "asspull" to solve the problem.

Why are you guys so determined to try and explain away stuff like this? Its fine if you like Bleach. I'm not out to try and say you are terrible people for liking it. But bad writing is bad writing. Is it really that hard to accept that Kubo is just sort of a bad writer?
>>
>>124712648
Bleach's was foreshadowing the fact that his powers were Quincy powers though, so can it really be called an asspull if it was just more foreshadowing?
>>
>>124712160
The only people who say this are people who have their first shounen as One Piece or something.
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>>124712160
never read Hunter x Hunter, exactly what Gon done that was consider biggest ass pull?
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>>124725571
He gave up his future to get a power up.
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>>124725607
his future, as his life or?
>>
>>124712067
I would say the biggest would be naruto close to ichigo because ichigo all of a sudden had a place to train at the most important timing. Goku yeah there were super cyan was inevitable. I mean look at the red form looks normal, there had to be a super form of that. Luffy, none of his shit was asspulls, everything he did was explained. He's the one with the rubber body, he would know how to use it. And seeing dudes jumping on air and Luffy purposely jumping off high places to emulate it was precursor to now.
>>
Luffy trained for 2 years and this is the first fight where he's needed to demonstrate more power to an enemy. No asspull

Goku's transformation is stupid, but he HAS been training for some time with a man who is much stronger than the god of destruction. He also absorbed the powers of a super saiyan god the last time he fought. This is no asspull.

Never paid attention to Bleach

That powerup was obtained after he made some kind of contact with a super ninja god who was dead, but somehow not dead completely and could travel through time. It's an asspull for sure.
>>
>OP is a obviously a shitter x shitter fag
>first reply is Gon
10/10, gotta love when a shit fanbase gets swiftly BTFO
>>
>>124725670
>shitter x shitter
How about Homo x Homo?
>>
>>124712674
>came out of no where and doesn't use his powers

Mate it was a fan theory for ages and is only possible because of his rubber body.
>>
>>124725479
That has nothing to do with the question that you asked, though.

You asked,"why didn't Aizen do this," and that's not where the problem really lies. Aizen literally couldn't replicate what Ichigo did, and even if he could, he wouldn't have been willing to make the necessary sacrifice.

It might be bad writing, but it isn't really an asspull.
>>
>>124712674
No dude g 2 uses the rubber powers. What happened when a normal person pumps air in to their blood stream? They get a heart attack. Luffy doesn't because every thing including blood cells is rubber, so his cells can hold a lot more air. How he figured that out is by watching cp9 move so fast and jump on air. So making himself light as air by finding a different way others than ballon mode is the next logical choice.
>>
>>124725931

Oh I'm not the same guy that you originally replied to.

I just see you guys always trying to defend Bleach at every turn and I get curious about... well, why?
>>
>>124725626
He sacrificed his future potential for a powerup so he nearly died and lost his powers afterwards. It's not an asspull though because he used a long established method to do it.
>>
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Everything about this.
>>
>>124725987
Fair enough.

>I just see you guys always trying to defend Bleach at every turn and I get curious about... well, why?
I don't, though. I almost never post in these threads, or in Bleach threads.

The writing in Bleach leaves a lot to be desired, and the whole fake Karakura Town arc was fairly ridiculous, but I just didn't agree with the specific thing that the person I was originally replying to was complaining about.
>>
>>124713821
His powers work and are fair because the only thing he can do with nen for the rest of his life is curbstomp anyone identifying as a Phantom Troupe member.
If he tries to use his nen abilities on anything else, he'll die, that's the tradeoff. I expect that if he ever becomes an important character in a future arc again, it will focus on that restriction and the trouble it brings him, rather than just having him sweep through the entire Troupe.

All of this is still moot because it's not an asspull; the rules of nen that specifically matter for his contract were explained fully leading up to his reveal of the nen contract.
>>
>>124725997
Than shouldn't Netero be able to sacrifice his life when fighting Meruem to gain an enormous power up?
>>
>>124726071

Gotcha!

Well shoot then! I take this as a agreeable situation.
>>
>>124726128
Than anybody on the verge of death can make a nen contract but they didn't?
>>
>>124726181
Zero hand kinda did that...
>>
>>124726181
Yes theoretically, but Netero doesn't have enough potential to make the same sacrifice for the same amount of power, and you need strong resolve to make a strong covenant. Gon could do it because he was was fully prepared to sacrifice everything, not just coming up with a way to avoid dying.
>>
>>124726002
>story is increasingly focusing on how Senketsu's evolution is growing out of control and how Ryuuko is pretty much able to evolve to beat anything with him
>Senketsu evolves in a fight against the "villian's" lackey, allowing Ryuuko to win

Of all the things to criticize Kill la Kill about, especially its asspulls, this is not one of those things.
>>
>>124726265
>>124726265
No it didn't. Zero hand make use of powers that he already have but Nen contracts give more power in exchange for a condition.
>>
>>124726301
But that make no sense. Netero could sacrifice his life or make a condition like Kurapika.
>>
>>124726359
Did you not notice how after using Zero hand he was in a shriveled state similar to how Gon was?

Because that's what Zero hand is, its the final move he has that uses all his remaining life force to do one last attack.
>>
>>124726391
How does it not make sense? Nen covenants are a choice that's strengthened by resolve. Netero wanted a good fight, he wasn't desperately emotional like Gon and something like Kurapika's would make the fight unfair.
>>
>>124726181
What would be the point, though? Either way he dies, except without the nen contract Netero was assuring that Meruem would die.
Making a nen contract just to power up and die anyways would have been pointless, especially when Netero went into the fight looking to have a morbid form of fun, where he could go all out on someone who was stronger than him and experience of height of fighting that he, supposedly the strongest human, has never been able to reach because he just curbstomps everyone even without his Bodhisattva

>>124726249
Yes, although it would most often be futile because Gon had all the mental strength and determination of his entire being focused into that contract, with the price being his limitless potential for growth, something that characters had been pointing out throughout the entire series. Nobody else would be able to reach the powerlevel Gon did with a self-sacrificial nen contract while on the verge of death.
There's also the fact that if you're going to die and you're aware of that fact, your life isn't really worth much at all, so therefore you can't do much with a nen contract where the price is your life.
Kurapika's life is valuable enough to himself (as the only one he thinks capable of hunting and eradicating the spiders, as well as the last remaining member of his clan) that it, coupled with the big restriction of only using his powers on Troupe members, result in his utterly broken, yet highly restricted powers.


Nen. It just works.
>>
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>>124726448
Pretty much.
>>
>>124726448
Zero hand only did that because he used every remaining Nen that he already have at that point in time. Nen contract is supposed to give him more power than he should already have. That's the difference and make Gon's transformation an asspull.
>>
>>124726391
Netero was already sacrificing his life, and there was a big enough power gap that there's an extremely real chance that the life of a 110-year-old-man who's lived his life and is perfectly fine with dying in this fight, would not be worth enough to give Netero a power boost capable of taking down Meruem. And even if he could, he would still be sacrificing his life for Meruem's death, except by using the miniature rose, he ensured that he could have a clean, enjoyable fight with a 100% chance of killing his target.
>>
>>124726493
This is what happen when people points out the obvious. HxHfags continue to make excuses. At the end of the day, Netero wants to kill Meruem even with sacrificing his life. Making a contract is the only logical way to achieve that.
>>
>>124726551
But it would still give him a power boost. Stop making excuses. Gon's powerup is an asspull.
>>
>>124726318
>Every MC at the top except for Luffy has been noted to have supernatural, or be exceptional to the point of ridiculousness, with exceptional growth, and being one of a kind in several ways.

>Called asspulls.

But I guess Kill la Kill gets a pass because uh...reasons.
>>
>>124712240
But it only took Frieza four months to reach Golden!
>>
>>124726595
Do you even read the responses? They're not excuses, theyre completely logical explanations. Netero's life isn't worth that much, he wanted a fight, he lacked Gon's emotional resolve, and the rose had a better chance of beating Meruem overall. And obviously Togashi used the rose to send a message, so it has a point.

I'm not sure how you think this negates the logic behind nen covenants anyway. It's a fact that they exist and can be used if someone chooses to. Gon did, so it's not an asspull.
>>
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>>124712067

Everything about gurren lagann was an asspull.
>>
>>124726595
>>124726631
Are you clinically retarded?
>Making a contract is the only logical way to achieve that.
Except they killed Meruem in a much more logical way, using a toxic nuke.
Which as I've already said, was way more surefire than hoping that a dying old man's life was worth enough of a power boost to kill the strongest being in the series. Which it wasn't. There was no need for Meruem to get a power boost at all, because it would have been pointless and a waste of time.


Regardless of this entire part of the conversation, Gon's powerup still isn't an asspull because he powered up using a method that was clearly explained and outlined hundreds of chapters ago in one of the earliest arcs, where he traded his potential, something repeatedly stated by character dialogue and growth to be something very potent and valuable, ie: something worth a lot in a nen contract.
>>
>>124726391

Nen is 'mind power', your will and belief have lots to do with the condition. At that point Netero most likely did not believe he can kill Meruem without forsaking his life - so the contract to give it up would effectivelly have no value
>>
>>124712067
Not related but Gintama's "muh samurai heart" asspull really bother me
>>
>>124726683
Because the other asspulls were a lot more than "exceptional growth", they weren't just training to the point of being able to punch stronger or whatever, they got a completely new ability that allowed them to curbstomp enemies that were previously far and above their power level.
Kill la Kill was constantly focusing on how Senketsu is dangerous because it can constantly evolve and adapt to every situation, and Ryuuko could basically beat anyone if she kept him evolving like that. Nonon wasn't even that strong, she just started the fight with an upper hand and, like characters had been saying would happen, Senketsu adapted to it, allowing them to win.
There are countless better asspulls to nitpick at in Kill la Kill, like try everything leading up to the final fight, such as when Ryuuko just absorbed everyone else's life fibers so that she could fly into space and blow up incest mom?
>>
>>124726128
He can use the chains on others. The only chain that is overpowered is Chain Jail; if bound by it, the person is put in a state of hatsu (aura gets blocked, can't use Nen) which is why it is the only chain reserved for the spiders. You niggers are forgetting that Kurapika has near, if not total, genius-level intellect. Dowsing Chain, Judgement Chain and Healing Chain (presumably, there has yet to be evidence for this) can be used on people that aren't spiders. The chain on his index finger is the only one that is still up in the air; Kurapika has never used it.

Some anons are saying Emperor Time can only be used against the spiders, but I can't recall if this was stated. I want to say that that is a lie since Kurapika discovers this ability while his master is still around.

>>124726249
Anons are saying something about the "potential" one has for mastering Nen. If you do not have much potential, you won't be able to get much out of the Vows/Limitations system, according to them. I do not know where this is explained though. Yet it somehow seems to line up; Gon-San aside, Killua's abilities are just almost as broken as Kurapika's. And Killua can use God-Speed on anyone. Sure, he has to research and it places a "burden" on his body, but Killua's high resillience makes it feel asspull-ish.
>>
>Not even one mention of Yu Yu Hakusho

Is this thread serious? Yu Yu Hakusho invented asspulls.
>>
>>124726741
thats lagann's ability
>>
>>124726739
Than every power up in OP's image is not an asspull because everyone of them has logical explanations.

This doesn't negate anything but just showing that Gon power up is an asspull when even Netero didn't do it. The rose could still be there but at the verge of death he should make a contract to sacrifice his life to gain more power. Not only that the rose would do damage to Meruem but he would also add to that making sure than Meruem would really die. This just show how stupid and how much as an asspull is with Gon. It just shows that Togashi wanted to give Gon some power up and he just conveniently remembered the nen contract.
>>
>>124712516
This fucking joke is so stupid...
>>
>>124726894

nigga you serious? it shows yusuke's demon form above you
>>
>>124726528
Netero was already past his prime, he didn't have any potential left.
>>
>>124726934
I never said op has asspulls though.

You're seriously just coming up with a bunch of nitpicky excuses. Gon used an ability that was explained perfectly clearly, its not an asspull because it wasn't used at every possible opportunity in the series. No shit it was reserved for when it has maximum impact, but that's just good writing because it's still completely possible and well established.
>>
>>124726934
No, seriously, are you reading what other people are saying at all?
Netero wouldn't have gained much, if any power from a nen contract at all, certainly not enough to make any sort of real difference. It also would have gone against his character since he was looking for a genuine challenge, someone he could give his all against without a real chance of killing fairly. As far as the plot is concerned, there was literally no reason for Netero and Meruem to fight at all, Netero was selected to deliver the bomb because he was so strong, he was the only hope of reliably getting the bomb close enough to Meruem in order to assuredly kill him.
Gon had something extremely valuable - his growth potential - that allowed him to make the strongest nen contract in the series, allowing a kid to defeat one of the Chimera Ants' Royal Guards.
>>
>>124727049
Zero hand shows that he would use any powers he have to exterminate Meruem. Even to the most tiniest energy he have left. That not only shows his conviction to finish this but just shows how desperate he is. Even though a nen contract would make the slightest difference he would use it. He also doesn't need to sacrifice his potential but his life like Kurapika did.
>>
>>124727160
He went into the fight knowing that he was going to die. He was long past his prime, and being able to fight Meruem was basically his dream because it was someone he could go all-out against.
His life was worth nothing, therefore using it as payment in a nen contract would result in nothing. The moment Netero had the Miniature Rose implanted in him, he became part of a Schrodinger's Cat-like situation, where he was effectively dead, but not yet.

Zero Hand was not an act of desperation, but instead the final card Netero had up his sleeve that was his own power, his own strength that he trained to achieve (read: not a nen contract), that he could afford to expend on Meruem, with the only real goal of testing his own limits against the world's strongest being.
>>
>>124726528
What potential did he have left to tap into he was an old man who reached his prime long before.
>>
>>124727286
The bomb isn't going to explode if he didn't die. That still makes his life worth something. It's like this, he use all his power plus the contract and the bomb. The contract would only be used when he was sure he was going to die and thus like Gon would sacrifice his life with the conviction to kill Meruem. The bomb would than explode when he finally dies. I really don't want to make the fight become stupid but making Gon get the power up would just make the Netero and Meruem fight useless and meaningless.
>>
>>124727344
Who said it have to be potential?
>>
>>124726867
You're right, it happened so long ago that I forgot the rest of his chain abilities aren't broken, and therefore can be used on anything.
Still, the entire point still stands, Kurapika is a below-average hunter without Chain Jail, but with it he's an unstoppable force that curbstomps members of the most dangerous group of criminals around.
Just like Greed Island, which does impossible things thanks to how restricted and clearly defined all the rules to how everything works is, Chain Jail can do broken stuff with a really tight restriction.
>>
>>124727379
If he was sure he was going to die, then his life is worth LITERALLY NOTHING, and therefore wouldn't give him jack shit in the form of a powerup.

You seem to think Gon traded his life for a huge powerup to save his life while he was on the verge of death, which is absolutely not what happened. Gon wasn't even thinking that he could have died there, he was way too concentrated on the possibility of saving Kite's life, and then ending the life of the person who took his life. Gon wasn't making a contract to save his own life by paying with that life, he was making a contract to kill someone he otherwise would have no hope of killing, while paying with his abundant potential.
>>
>>124717309
It's worse as it literally shatters his original character arc into tiny pieces.
>>
>>124727401
Gon never went beyond his limits he went to his limit if he could have gone further then why didn't he? Nen has to have it's limits as well if giving up basically his entire life brought him to his peak what could Netero have given up to take him further than that?
>>
>>124727549
Better than the War arc of Naruto proving that Neji was right all the way back in the Chuunin Exam, that to accomplish anything you have to be gifted with powers, no amount of training and hard work will put you on a level to compete with those who got their powers through bloodlines and destiny and shit.
Speaking of destiny, look who died protecting the main branch of the clan (Hinata), like he was destined to.
>>
>>124727491
Kurapika traded his life. He set a condition on himself. Netero could do that. The condition doesn't have to be the same. It's just a contract.

Again it doesn't mean only Netero but anybody that uses Nen could do this. People on the verge of death could do this, the will not to die is really strong thus would give them enormous power.
>>
>>124727401
listen retard nen contracts are basically equivalent exchanges, now tell me what does netero, a 110 year old man, could possibly offer to give him a power close enough to beat meurem
>>
>>124727636
Except he didn't trade his life, he set restrictions on the powers, that when broken, result in him dying.
Trading his life for the power would be using a one-time big attack that uses your direct life force, like Zero Hand but killing you instantly, instead of draining all your nen leaving you in a near-death state.
>>
>>124727699
And that would be useful.
>>
>>124727636
Kurapika didn't trade his life, he traded the ability to use certain powers on people other than the troupe. The death penalty was just to strengthen it, obviously he has no plans on actually dying.

Neither his nor Gon's contracts came about because they were close to death and freaking out. Their resolves were built on extended periods of serious emotional investment, not a last minute panic.
>>
>>124727626
It's more complicated than that. If Naruto didn't work hard, he never would have become the reincarnation of Whatshisface, and gifted with Jesus powers.. Sure he still would have been strong thanks to the Foxmonster, but his disposition was essential in meeting the ghostninja in the chakra matrix. Which only happened because he lived his life believing you have to work hard.

It's a bit of a paradox.
>>
>>124727636

>contract wth death as payment
>fueled by will not to die

you got something wrong there, /a/non
>>
>>124727728
To who Netero?
This is the last time I'm going to repeat this.
Netero's life was worth nothing.
It wouldn't have given him any type of power boost, it would have been against his character to try and rely on a nen contract to defeat someone he already had in "checkmate" and was only using for enjoyment before showing off the Rose, and it would have been pointless considering [no nen contract = they both die] is the same as [nen contract = they both die], assuming he even had the ability to trade anything for the nen contract.

>>124727850
This nigga gets it.
>>
>>124722795
>Watch Naruto vs neji
>"Destiny doesn't exist, you can carve your future yourself"
>Mfw Naruto and sasuke are reincarnation and destiny exist
It was a fucking asspull because Kishimoto destroyed one of Naruto themes just for it.
>>
>>124727742
I understood that Naruto was born as the reincarnation of Ninja Jesus' son, which is part of the reason he is the way he is.
>>
>>124727913
Neji was right all along and Kishimoto refuses to acknowledge it in any way!
>>
>>124717673
What would have been cool would be that Yusuke wouldn't have the demon bloodline, but gets possessed by Raizen and made it look like he became one to help Sensui accept his death. there was no build up or foresight to him being part demon in the beginning and it annoyed me.
>>
transformations in DB are not ass pulls, they are contractual obligations
>>
>>124727982
:^)
>>
>>124727899
If it would be pointless than he would at least try. The word here is try. It doesn't mean that he need the will not to die but to finish off Meruem. Contract doesn't have to have the same conditions but at the end of it, it's all about life.
Gon would have died if Killua didn't save him. So, at the end Gon would have died. He now only can't use Nen only because from another asspull. HxH is really just full of asspull that will only be clarified by
>Nen works like that
>>
>>124712206
THIS WAS NOT AN ASSPULL. The arrow was already known to make you broken as fuck as we have seen with Silver Chariot Requiem. The final fight with Diavolo was just \ a race to the arrow and whoever the arrow chose and got to was gonna be the clear winner, didn't matter who. Giorno was the more desperate one so it chose him and gave him the ability to help beat Diavolo. Fuck, that wasn't hard to understand at all.
>>
>>124727411
I agree with you, but not entirely. Kurapika's ET would make him anything but mediocre; 100% proficiency in every Nen category is OP as fuck. In his match with Uvogin, Kurapika did not use anything other than his Conjurer and Enhancer abilities. If he starts devoloping techniques for other categories he may very well become unstoppable.

>>124727636
I don't think you comprehend what made Netero broken. He trained for a decade or so in total isolation. He went nearly insane, but his constant meditation and praying let him make the most of his Nen potential (Nen is a power of the mind, afterall; it makes sense that meditation would increase Nen proficiency). The 100-Type Guanyin Bodhisattva is what makes Netero broken; he needs no vows/limitations to use it. This is why Meruem mentions he is insane; he thought of using a giant statue to fight and he actually pulled it off. He can emit the damn thing off his aura. Zero Hand is the only attack that seems to have a Vow, not so much a Limitation. And let's not forget that Netero is an Enhancer who uses Emission to fight. And he was past his prime as well; maybe a younger Netero might have been able to move his hands, and therefore the Guanyin's, faster.
>>
>>124727936
That's why I said it was a paradox. He was born that way. But he was born with a disposition towards hard work that inspires everyone around him.
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