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Why does /a/ like this guy again? Secondary here, but he seems

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Why does /a/ like this guy again? Secondary here, but he seems like your average white knight. You could replace this shitlord with any Shounen MC and get the same results.
>>
>Self admitted secondary spouting his retarded uniformed opinion instead of just shutting the fuck up and lurking more/reading the source material
>''white knight''
>''shitlord''

Fucking christ.
>>
>>124598736
Seriously, this fucktard nearly gets himself killed every time until Tohsaka saves his ass.
>>
>>124598905
It's like you're ignoring he's saved Tohsaka's ass too.
>>
>>124598736
You forget that /a/ like Touma so much that one anon tried to live his life the "Touman way".
>>
He's your average white knight if the writer took the white knighting really seriously.
>>
>>124598736

Haven't you figured this out by now? /a/ has shit taste.

Including you. Shirou is shit, though. Kerrytugu > Shirou
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>>124598736
>>
>>124600392
>liking an autistic manchild like Kiritsugu
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>>124600392
>Chastises /a/ for shit taste
>says Kerry>>>Shirou
>99.9999% of being Zerofag

The irony is stunning.
>>
Because Shirou is actually fine waifu material.
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>>124600458
Something something hymen joke/ Rin's anus/ worms
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>>124600509
>>124600535

If you self-inserted any harder, it might be considered gay.

People who consider magic semen quality narrative are probably the type who will defend a pile of shit, though, so it isn't surprising is it?
>>
>>124599011
>destroys her ass nightly

i dont think you know what saving is. its like throwing a hotdog down a mineshaft now.
>>
Shiki can kill Shirou.
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>>124600809
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>>124598736
Archer is Shirou from the future
Shirou kills Gilgamesh
Kirei is killed by Lancer who is command sealed to suicide
The grail is corrupt

Fuck you secondary.
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>>124600809
Read the VN, please
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>>124601048
why was archer so shit if shirou can beat everyone before he even learns how to do anything? archer even has rin with good mana and shit, yet most he ever does is die like a bitch.
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>>124601048
>thinking secondaries didn't already know that
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>>124601115
Cause favorable situations. If Archer had to fight gil, then he would win. If Archer got to fight blind Berserker with no skin, he would win.

The only one that is kind of a tossup is Saber alter. She might use excalibur more freely on him than she did on shirou.
>>
>Shirou is literally a hero of justice aspirant
>Kiritsugu is a edgylord Gary Stu
There are no good protagonists.
>>
F/Z is better because Urobuchi respects the characters.
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>>124601213
Read in a previous thread that Archer would have little chance against standard saber but would have a good chance against alter because despite the powerup the reduced agility and instincts gives Archer the edge he needs to win.
>>
>>124601070
>>
>>124601330
If he respected them he would make them less terrible.
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>>124600596
Why does he look so uncomfortable dressed as Saber and Rin but he looks perfectly at ease dressed as Sakura?
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>>124601347
The fight would come down to dice rolls. You could roll 100 times and get different results.

Archer has the potential to kill any Saber, he kills regular Saber with hrunting in hollow/ataraxia because he was ontop of that building.

On the other hand, if they fight in the greater grail cave with close proximity, Saber should easily take the win via excaliblast spam.
>>
>>124601404
It wasn't possible to make Nasu's characters better. He had to make do and delivered.
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>>124601431
Because Shirou is a housewife
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>>124601404

It's pretty hard to get any more terrible than F/SN cast, though. Why create H scenes otherwise? Something had to sell if his shitty writing wasn't up to snuff.
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>>124601524
Anything without h-scenes is trash. If you are incapable of adding pornography to your work then whatever you have written is worse then shit.
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>>124598736
Because imagine if you ended up playing a VN that can last more than 50 hours and you hated the character. Nigga's holding our time hostage.

Honestly, yeah, you learn a little more, but if you don't like his personality, and I don't blame you, it doesn't really help at all.
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>>124601431
Shirou is Sakura
>>
>>124601674

I don't know. I think he relied pretty heavily on them. This anon brought up a good point that I had forgotten:

>>124588031
>>
>>124601330
I know a bunch of weeaboos that think an anime is automatically god tier if Urobuchi is invovled.
>>
>>124601458
>delivered
All his original characters are fucking retarded. Kiritsugu is more immature than Shirou, Kiriya is completely fucking retarded, Diarmuid's character only amounts to muh honor, Lancelot is more or less the same, team Caster are a pair of charicatures, Tokiomi has the personality of artificial grass, Gilgamesh is a plot device (as usual). The only characters that are worth anything in Zero are Rider and Kirei, and one of them isn't even original. Oh, and he shits all over Saber, despite her being completely right in the way she chose and not being a complete tyrant like the other kings, so much for respecting the characters.
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>>124598736
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Again.
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>>124601431
>perfectly at ease
He's popping a vein so he's actually the most uncomfortable dressing as her.
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>>124598736
>any Shounen MC and get the same results.

No, I'm pretty sure it'd be completely different if I replaced him with Son Goku or Ryo Saeba.
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>>124602308
So you hate them because they're flawed characters in a tragedy? You're not very bright.
> he shits all over Saber, despite her being completely right in the way she chose
The flaws in her leadership were exposed, otherwise she wouldn't have sought to change anything in the first place. Saberfag please, she was as good and worse than the others.
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>>124598736
Shirou is the red man.
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>>124598736
the problem is, he is your average "shounen" MC on insane level and extremely suicidal

bitch like crazy
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>>124602838
Her way of leading is flawed, she was more or less an invisible king, not opening up to her people , keeping everything to herself.Sabers my favorite girl but even i know her way of leading is flawed as fuck
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>>124603292
shit this post was meant for >>124602308
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>>124601070
But magic semen is only in the VN
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>>124603354
Magic semen is in zero, you double secondary.
>>
If you don't know why Shirou is the fucking man, read the VN. I don't really have a favorite male character, but Kotomine and Kiritsugu are both awesome and so is Emiya. Kuzuki is a faggot although I do like some of his beliefs/thoughts.
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>>124600596
shit ass art
>>
>secondary this
>source material that
nigga the source material is a god damn porn game get over urselves
>>
Shirou is fucking INSANE, suicidal and one step away from having no sense of self. After he survived the fire, basically, he has no care about himself, he has massive PTSD and Survivor's Guilt, and all he wants is the power to help and save people , perhaps to assuage that guilt.

He's not sane. At all.
>>
>>124602308

Z Saber vs SN Saber

Both are shit. At least we get to compare Arthur's philosophy with two other kings' philosophy which demonstrates just how immature her wish is. Reminds you of just how immature Shirou's wish is. Two idealistic fucks paired together. Super.

[Z Archer] vs SN Archer (both of them)

Is this really even a competition? Zero's Gilgamesh shit all over both of SN's archers.

Z Lancer vs SN Lancer

>plot device
vs
>plot device

[Z Caster] vs SN Caster

>obsession with Saber resulting in plenty of backstory/so out of it he doesn't even realize he is in the HGW resulting in plenty of shenanigans and plot devices for other characters
vs
>muh lifeless and (self-admitted) waste of human life

Z Berserker vs [SN Berserker]

>plot device intent on killing Saber out of an extremely forced revenge
vs
>how to actually write a silent character and still give him plenty of development and motive

Z Assassin vs SN Assassin

>plot device
vs
>plot device

[Z Rider] vs SN Rider

Not even a competition.

Decent characters from SN:

Taiga
Rin
Illya
Kirei

Decent characters from Z:

Kirei
Waver
Irisviel
Ryuunosuke
Let's not kid ourselves: he's a fucking retarded writer. But at least he got more right than wrong in Z compared to SN despite SN having much more development.
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>>124603473
Shitposting is against the rules.
>>
>>124603502

So is underage posting.
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>>124602825
goku is the only white knight that could get shit done
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>>124603473
>At least we get to compare Arthur's philosophy with two other kings' philosophy which demonstrates just how immature her wish is
Isn't it supposed to demonstrate her nobility and the other kings' tyranny?
They mock her for being naive, but she's the one with the devastating light of eternal glory personally selected by (the closest thing to) God to rule for eternity.
>>
>>124603673
He also points out the immaturity of shirou's wish as a negative, which is the entire goddamned point of FSN. He missed the mark on most everything.
>>
Just waiting for the fucking Shirou vs Gilgamesh fight.
Otherwise I don't give a shit about him, just you usual transparent niceguy MC.
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>>124601452
Archer would win against Alter, because he would be able to follow up on the Crane Wing attack. The only thing that made Shirou lose against alter 1v1 was being vegetabled after the projections. Archer has no problem projecting as many times as he wants, so his trick would work.
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>>124604001
>just you usual transparent niceguy MC.

That's wrong though.
>>
I finished the VN five years ago, Kiritsugu >>>>>Shirou indeed.
>>
>>124604142
Oops, forgot "fucking idiot" for what he did in the Gil vs Berserker fight.
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>>124604166
Why do you like manchildren?

>>124604191
Why do you like cowards?
>>
>>124604191
Everything Shirou does in the VN is explained and makes sense.
>>
Kerry is a good character.

Shirou is a good character.

Anyone who disagrees is wrong and can't get over their retarded biases.
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>>124604207
I don't like self-righteous retards thinking they can change something by shouting 7/7 what's right or wrong.
Maybe he has balls but he clearly lacks in the common sense department.
"Coward" is just a term created by hot-headed idiots to give themselves some dignity.
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>>124604367
Okay so you didn't understand the character at all. Shirou never forces his opinions on anyone and never thinks he can force change. That's actually literally Kiritsugu. He just wants to do his best to live up to his ideal.

And yes, the fact that he has a lack of sense is covered in the story. He's not mentally well; this is a major part of his character.
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>>124604207
Most great people are children at heart. Adults are shit and maturity is terribly overrated.

Also I didn't particularly like Kerry, I just can't stand Shirou. And yes I am aware of his suicidal bullshit nature, that does not make him any more likeable or better written, it's just more pretentious than your avarage shonen MC.

I could say the same about Kiritsugu's retarded wish too you know, replacing suicidal marks with childish ones and there you go.

>omg he's so insane hes really such a child when at the same time being able to do what adults suppoused to so deeep
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>>124604431
Well, he literally unconsciously forces his opinions upon others by being who he is.
Also, I'm only talking about the UBW TV adaptation.
>>
>>124604367
>he clearly lacks in the common sense department.

well, he is. and it's fucking insane
that's the point if this route
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>>124604509
How is it pretentious when it is the focus of the entire 60 hour novel?

And what's the point of your post? Is maturity a good thing or bad thing?

How is shirou poorly written?
>>
>>124604543
He "literally" does not. He forces no one to do anything.
Also, read the fucking VN.
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>>124603461
would you call Game Of Thrones porn? because that has more sex than F/SN.
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>>124604543
>he literally unconsciously forces his opinions upon others by being who he is

What kind of argument is that? So your problem isn't that he's preachy, it's that he has opinions you don't like, and that annoys you? He talks down to anyone or tries to make people believe the way he does.
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>>124601458
The only good characters in Zerp are the ones already introduced and explained in the VN, mainly, Kerry, Kirei, Gil, Saber,
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>>124602838
>they're flawed characters in a tragedy
No, I hate them because they are fucking retarded, and they have no reason to be given the material they are based on. Again, Kiritsugu has his life choice less well though out than a his teenager son. Kariya's actions make no fucking sense and only happen so Urobuchi can insert suffering into the story. Like, I said, most other characters aren't very good either. Even Lancelot's characterization doesn't go far from what little was shown in FSN.

Having flawed characters is one thing, but when most of the cast consists of dumb, unlikable, pathetic and downright badly thought out characters, it not a pretty experience to watch this show.
>>
Friendly reminder that Kerry and Shirou are incredibly similar concepts: take the cliche "I want to be the hero!" MC and ask how they got that way, how their morality affects those around them, how it reacts under pressure, and what, if anything, can break that morality.
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>>124599165
That was funny, why the fuck doesn't he post anymore?
>>
>>124604893
The difference is that Shirou's story actually thinks about what someone who wants to live like that would be, while Kerry's just punches the guy in the balls, pisses on him then laughs about how naive they are for trying to give your life in service of others. Because god forbid someone doesn't live only for himmself and himself only.
>>
>>124604588

He tells Saber she's a girl and, as a result, shouldn't be fighting, interfering with many of her suggested strategies/fights. He throws himself into danger (generally against the wishes of whoever he is with at the time) because he can't seem to understand that he's inexperienced as shit and would just die if he wasn't continually saved by asspulls.

He doesn't have to force anyone to do anything because he is continually shouting, at the top of his lungs (to drown out any reason, no doubt), the way he thinks things are/that he's right and disregards everyone's opinion as a result. Yeah, I'm going to go consult Tohsaka about this particular aspect of the war but in the end I'll probably just ignore her advice anyways.

At least Kerry used Saber how she should have actually been used: a tool. Don't need to stick your dick in it to make it work. And at least Kerry finally understood his wish wouldn't come true and changed his way of life as a result.

>>124604598

When I read through A Song of Ice and Fire (6 novel never), I don't remember any magic semen. Just a lot of incestuous fucking.
>>
>>124603369

wait, what? Where?!
Please tell me it's WaverxRider. Wader is only ship that matters in Zero
>>
Shirou is your average shonen MC. They added abit more flavour and make him abit unconventional but he's still an unlikeable, justice spouting, nakama powered faggot.
>>
>>124605083
Kerry's dreams were much bigger than Shirou's, so they weighed more heavily on him. Shirou wanted to save everyone that he knew. Kerry wanted to save everyone everywhere forever. It was his own fault.

Don't get me wrong, I felt horrible for him and I wish he and Shirou and everyone could have lived happily ever after, but his moral code was completely fucked.

>Because god forbid someone doesn't live only for himself and himself only.
Kerry went so far beyond that. More than anything else, he hated himself, with every fiber of his being, and it was a direct and inevitable result of his morality. Someone like that could never find happiness without first discarding that destructive mindset.
>>
>>124605020
Too me so fucking long to realize it was about Working!!
>>
>>124605160
>He tells Saber she's a girl and, as a result, shouldn't be fighting

Where does he do this in the UBW, or its adaptation? Read the chain of conversation, please.

Disagreeing with other people's opinions is not forcing your opinions on anything. It's simply disagreeing. And Shirou doesn't actively seek help from people and then ignore their thoughts. People come up to him and say he's wrong; disagreeing with them is not a wrong, especially when on a fair amount of stuff he's right.
>>
>>124605160
>he can't seem to understand that he's inexperienced as shit and would just die if he wasn't continually saved by asspulls.
What about no sense of self don't you understand? The guy would rather die and someone else live in his place, than do nothing.

>he is continually shouting, at the top of his lungs (to drown out any reason, no doubt), the way he thinks things are/that he's right and disregards everyone's opinion as a result.
When has he done that outside of people putting themselves in danger? He even accepts he's not normal when Rin confronts him.

>And at least Kerry finally understood his wish wouldn't come true and changed his way of life as a result.
He gave up when he realized the world wasn't LITERALLY going to magically change according to his whims. You know, something Shirou never did because he didn't have any pretensions to change the world.

>>124605306
>Kerry's dreams were much bigger than Shirou's, so they weighed more heavily on him. Shirou wanted to save everyone that he knew.
Shirou did want to save everyone. He just understood it was not humanly possible.
>>
>>124605365
>Shirou did want to save everyone. He just understood it was not humanly possible.
He didn't understand that until it was drilled into him later on. Either way, Shirou didn't try to save everyone like Kerry did, which was my point.

I was explaining to that anon why Kerry got bit so much harder in the ass than Shirou did.
>>
>>124598736

White Knights want something (sex) in return. Shirou thinks he is worthless and expects nothing in return for saving people.
>>
>>124605485
Yeah, I get that, I just wanted to clarify.
>>
>>124605485
Shirou is a high school student while Kerry is a grown man who spent years training as a mercenary, and was being funded by one of the most powerful magi families in the world.

There is literally a version of him in the story that shows what happens when he grows up and travels the world trying to save people.
>>
Kerry just wanted to save a life.
>>
>>124605561
What does any of that have to do with what I said?
>>
>>124605350

Follow your own advice. Comparison of both series MCs is what is on the table. Did you not read the Fate route?

Shirou doesn't simply just disagree: his actions tell you (and everyone else) what his opinion is on a given matter.

Good example: him spewing shit towards Gilgamesh in UBW after Illya dies. None of what he said matters and he not only endangered himself but Tohsaka as well. It would have been to his advantage to stay quiet and observe because there is absolutely nothing he can do (at that point) to deter Gilgamesh or Shinji.

The only reason to do so is because you die if you don't in the VN despite nothing being altered in the end. Lancer had already made his choice/been told what to do by Kirei.
>>
>>124605670
I think I might have been misreading the conversation.
>>
>>124598736
>>Secondary here
You need to play the game in order to know about shirou character.
>>
Reminder that Kiritsugu saved many lives and even the world. If you hate him, you're a tool.
>>
>>124605707
>You need to read the porn picture novel in order to know about shirou character.
>>
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>>124605686
It happens.
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>>124605707

If it looks and smells like shit...
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>>124601048
Fate is old as fuck in pretty sure everyone knew atleast Gilg dying and Archer being Shirou
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>>124605676
Dude who started the conversation was specifically talking about UBW Shirou. I think you might be confused because there was a branch in the conversation where someone replied to two people.

>Shirou doesn't simply just disagree: his actions tell you (and everyone else) what his opinion is on a given matter.

Our argument is whether or not he's forcing his opinions on others. There's nothing wrong with stating your opinion, and acting out how you think you should act. Shirou is not sitting a person down and telling them how to live. There are only really two exceptions to this; Saber, and Archer. Saber is its own can of worms, and was a result of Nasu having a problem with handling their relationship. It really shouldn't be a major factor in how Shirou is defined because it doesn't really pop up in any of the subsequent routes. Archer makes sense because it's literally him. If you can't talk shit about yourself, then what can you say?

>Good example: him spewing shit towards Gilgamesh in UBW after Illya dies. None of what he said matters and he not only endangered himself but Tohsaka as well. It would have been to his advantage to stay quiet and observe because there is absolutely nothing he can do (at that point) to deter Gilgamesh or Shinji.

I'm sorry, what does this have to do with forcing things on people? that just relates back to his suicidal tendencies.
>>
>>124605676
I guess lancer hates cowards so he decided not to help anyway
>>
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>>124605886

I think you should probably review the VN again if this is your opinion. However, I do agree in regards to Saber's awkward relationship with Shirou (which Nasu seems to be aware of) and dealings with Archer.

As for your second question: he forced Tohsaka to act. Gilgamesh was going to tear him a new one and you know it. Suicidal is fine. Involving other people in your suicidal shit? Not fine.

>>124605930

Even if that was Lancer's personal reason, the only other person Lancer could go to was Gilgamesh as he stated. Would Lancer side with a coward or an arrogant person whose values don't line up with his?

He was given that task by Kirei but perhaps he was just keeping Lancer busy since he could have had Gilgamesh handle Caster/everyone else himself.

Then again, I'm pretty sure Kirei didn't want Lancer to find out about certain things even though he does in the end anyways. Probably would have turned out better for Kirei if he had just used Gilgamesh.
>>
>>124606262
I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing a problem here. Shirou is screwed in the head, but he's not forcing his way of life or his opinions on anyone. Rin reacted to him, yes, but she has agency in that. She can choose whether or not she wants to.

Shirou is not sitting people down saying we all need to save everyone and you can screw off if you disagree. The only two really arguable cases I can think of where he gets pushy are with Saber and Archer, and one of them is entirely legitimate.
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