Lets settle this, who's the bigger Mary Sue?

Shiki

>>124454788
Shirou mary sue? Wtf

>>124454788

Come back when you find out what a mary sue means newfag

>>124454788

Shirou is dumb as a brick and constantly needs to be rescued. Some Mary Sue.

>>124454788
Touma is Mary Sue.
Shirou is too hopeless in every way to be a Mary Sue.

>>124454788
Shirou, since he has the power to trace swords

Touma is a pathetic bitch who died fighting a magic God a million times

>>124455747
That doesn't mean shit. Shirou has been proven wrong time, time and time again, while Touma is hailed as as paragon of virtues in the whole series, and evangelized for fuck's sake.

Izayoi, worse than Kirito and Touma.

>>124456403
>Touma is hailed as as paragon of virtues, and evangelized for fuck's sake.
Actually, that's kind of taken on a whole new level of creepy lately. Some of the bad guys have taken their hero-worship of Touma to such a degree that they blame him for not saving them from their own shit.

>>124456430
He's not the strongest though, he gets shit on later on when people with actual power come into play

So I guess they're not really Gary Stus and /a/ just like to put buzzwords on things they don't like.

>>124456403
>Touma is hailed as as paragon of virtues in the whole series, and evangelized for fuck's sake.


You mean being force into the "Unbending Hero" archetype role? Also it really doesn't matter when the latest volume is him being beaten to paste and had to cheered up by the faggot who tortured him.

>>124457857
Othinus is kind, anon, don't you get it?

Sounds like someone needs their illusions shattered

>>124454788
Touma's a bigger Mary Sue, but Shirou's a more boring character.

Grey's not that big of a Merry sue.

>>124454788
How is the Touma guy a mary sue? Can someone explain?

>>124455232
>this is what secondaries believe

Who is more likely to lick their own Elbow?

>>124458449
Touma, his a level 5 limb exploder so he can easily do that

Touma is a blank slate that has a very bland personality. He has no memories so you're quite free to engage in mastabatory fantasies about what he was like before memory loss and canon cannot prove you wrong. Even before Index showed up, Touma already had a thing for saving girls, and said girls developing a thing for him, which also implies he's won a lot of fights. No matter what he does, at least one person will side with him, no questions asked because he's Touma. Dare to suggest he might be in the wrong or that he's not as deserving of mindless worship as some people think, there will be at least one person to jump down your throat and explain why you're!!! wrong!!!!! and even the story itself goes out its way to make sure Touma is always seen as morally superior and "more powerful" than literally anyone else including gods.

Please explain how this is not a legitimate Mary Sue.

>inb4 people prove my post right

>>124454788

Which one has the potential to abandon their ideals?

>>124459136
both have done so in canon

>>124459136

Shirou, for a girl he truly loves, is willing to say "fuck being a hero, that was dad's dream, time to live my own life."

I don't know shit about Touma.

>>124459136
As proven by New Testament, Touma doesn't really have "ideals" stricter than "find some way to make everyone happy in the end". He admits that he sometimes BSes his moral speeches just to press his enemy's emotional buttons, and when faced with contradictions in his belief pattern, he simply powers through them and deals with the consequences as he goes along. In this regard, he's the anti-Shirou

This, combined with the fact that shit generally happens at a constant breakneck clip in Raildex, means that until very late into the series, Touma's never been able to just sit down and think about what his ideals actually are and what he's fighting for.

>>124454788
OP you don't even know what is a Mary Sue. Go be a faggot in other board.

>>124459507

So he's a generic good guy. How dull.

>>124454788
Mary Sue doesn't mean what you think it means.

>>124454788
I really wish there were a crossover fighting game between the two series just so we could have Archer interact wih Touma. Archer calls Touma out on how an ending where everyone is smiling is just being naive and that you can't save everyone and Touma just replies about how he's going to break that stupid illusion of his or something like that.

>>124460641
he should have killed himself really, killing 6 billion full of happy people because his selfish for once is fucking disgusting.

>>124459046
>more powerful
wait did he get a power up? How bullshit it is?

>>124460741
So, it's basically Archer vs. Shirou.

>>124459046
Beito desu.

>>124460996
Only Touma is a lot "simpler" than Shirou

Easily toufag

>>124459046
Have you actually READ the franchise?, or are you just calling him a mary sue because of how fans react to it...

Because most of the time, he IS RIGHT. (Look at his opponents, and what they try to accomplish, he's rarely ever wrong, and when he is the novels let you know~)

Learn what a mary sue is anon-kun, because you're mistaking the term for fans.

Read the series too, that might help you put up a decent retort.

>inb4 you try denying the fact that you're just butthurt over fans.

>>124460776
You do understand that they would of died either way right?

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Touma probably

>>124461199
ha, nice gif

>>124460776
He can't, and someone in this world or other will prevent his death no matter what happens.

That's his ultimate misfortune.

>>124461132
"save everyone" is usually the wrong choice for mere mortals, except touma is empowered with not only supernatural bullshit but also plot hacks (like, actual plot hacks by the man in the tower) so he always wins

>>124461132

Infallibility is definitely a Mary Sue trait you stupid flatchest.

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>>124457238
>That story was a tragedy, But the saddest part of all is that the story did not have all the necessary elements. If a single gear had been in its proper place, that horrific event never would have happened.
>Kamijou Touma was not present in that story.
>If that argument was valid, it would mean Kamijou Touma was responsible the lives of all six or seven billion people on the planet. If even one of those lives were to slip from his grasp, the blame would lie on him.
>That was a job for god.

>>124461313
>Touma always wins
HAH. Touma has the worst win-to-lose ratio as a main character ever.

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>>124461132
it bothers him though

>>124461387
name one time he tried to save somebody but didn't or fails in his main goal, and we'll see he stacks up against the other main characters in the series

>>124461416
That one chick in Volume 2.

She turned into gold and melted.

>>124461387
he even got beaten the shit out by Shiage

>>124460854
>Touma
>a power up
AHAHAHAAHAHA. I wish. ;_;

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Who is the bigger mary sue?

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>>124461579
He loses to everyone now

>>124461472
Oh yeah, a bunch of people did, didn't they? That was pretty fucked up. I don't know why in my mind I just figured everything got better after Ars Magna ended.

>>124461340
>Infallibility
You're using the term wrong.
>Flatchest
I'm flattered anon-kun, that you think i'm flatchested, simply flatered
>>124461416
The sister clones also come to mind, and don't forget what happened during ww3, and grimlins invasion, etc.

read the novel.

>>124461416
Most of Volume 18 consists of that.
>Sky Bus hijacking comes to a point where Index is strangled while Touma is locked in somewhere
>In Folkestone, Index is ambushed by Carissa and Knight leader while Touma is forbidden from entering Folkestone due to the bombing investigation
>Touma and Index are caught in the explosion created by Carissa using Curtana Original and was saved by Acqua
>Index becomes Fiamma's puppet at the end of the volume
That's already four failed attempts to save a single character in a single volume. NT9 worsens the "saving" record when Othinus points out that there may be someone who have needed his help but wasn't there or he was unable to help due to reasons.

>>124461602
Superman. Even if you think of the characters their based on Sun Wukong is still less of a mary sue than big J, and that mofo kicked all the gods' asses.

>>124461602
Nice bait, but you may want to learn what the term means~

>>124461638
>The sister clones also come to mind
Touma discovers one dead sister and saves the next. Saying that he's responsible for people he didn't know about is like saying he's responsible for Frenda.

>>124461666
>was saved by Acqua
If you're bailed out by a white knight on a shining horse you still haven't lost anything. Fiamma stealing Index is a real loss, I guess.

>>124460741
>YFW Touma literally punches UBW apart
11/10 would pay to watch

>>124461666
Touma is a faggot for not saving Frenda and Mitsuari. Fuck him

>>124457361
As of volume 8, he still hasn't been "shat on". At best he's been outmatched and had to take injuries in a fight.

>>124461791
i didn't know being turn into paste is considered an injury

>>124461791
>Lost outright to Tsuchimikado in Volume 4

What?

>>124459507
Not really the anti-Shirou. He's exactly UBW's Shirou more than anything. "Even if my ideals are wrong, even if they're naive, I will keep saving people!" versus "As long as there is even a single crying face... I will still get up and fight!"

>>124461389
That paragraph was the entire essence of TouMAN's ideals distilled. And it was fucking awesome.

>>124461900
That's OT Touma. Touma did undergo changes after that dive in OT, then NT9 turned him into an entirely different person again, PTSD and all of that.

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>>124461416
Rensa.

Even after everything, the best he could do was salvage the still-living bits of brains used to power her and stow them away after Rensa's body was destroyed.

To paraphrase him, he had to basically cross his fingers that AC's technology advanced to the point where they could actually be saved.

>>124461865
>>124461881
We were talking about Izayoi, you dumbfucks.

>>124461416
>What is the entirety of Baggage City
>What was Gremlin's plot for which we devoted 5 volumes of him trying to stop, with the help of practically the entire world as well

>>124461738
saying he's never failed follows the same logic.