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Why do American fansub groups not use TL notes anymore? They

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Why do American fansub groups not use TL notes anymore? They either swap words (usually with cultural references that still alienate a large portion of people) or leave in the line and let people Google it. Is it so hard to understand that TL notes are sometimes appropriate?

Pic related, wonder how FFF will "translate" this.
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Because
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUYlqLlbix0
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>pic not even related
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>>124346274
I don't know about you but it's been some years that I read some shit and wondered what it meant. I don't need them.
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>>124346274
Because of a certain bald estonian fagget.
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>>124346359
Something something hashtag happening.
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Another example of good fansubbing. Appropriate translation (rice with bonito) and note at the top to explain what is おかかご飯.
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English fansubbers are part of a very insular fan-culture that overlaps heavily with /a/nons as a demographic.

Basically there are two camps:

1: holier than thou ubermensch translators who act like you should be grateful for whatever scraps of meaning they dole out to you. If they litter their translation with memes or heavily localize it, that is their prerogative because they know better than you. It is not your place to question them, merely to gaze up with adoration as they straddle the river of human language like the Colossus of Rhodes, one foot planted in the banks of English and other in Japanese. Gaze upon them with wonder and remember to donate.

2: Irascible purists who expect, no, DEMAND, that everyone be as knowledgeable of Japanese as themselves. If the first camp sees fansubbing as some kind of divine right to rule, this camp sees themselves as the suffering messiah, but without the infinite grace to suffer in peace. They are bitter, jaded, and despise criticism or complaints of any kind as personal attacks, insisting that if only everyone learned Japanese it would be so much easier to fansub; because there would be no need for it.
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>>124347070

But if you leave out the note it is even better. With the proper translation, (rice with bonito,) why do you also need a note to explain the same thing? Anyone who cares about connecting the meaning with the Japanese name/pronunciation can likely do so just from relating the spoken words to the subtitled translation.
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>>124346274
Curse DAIZ.
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Translation has a different history in the English language, than most other languages (such as French in your example image). Localization (domestication) has always been a large part of English language translation. Other languages most often like to keep foreign aspects of the source text.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_and_foreignization
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>>124347656
>Venuti's innovation to the field was his view that the dichotomy between domestication and foreignization was an ideological one; he views foreignization as the ethical choice for translators to make.
Good man. Fansubbers should follow his advice instead of a cancer patient's.
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File: 1370613187490.jpg (241KB, 1294x1600px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>>124346274
I'm not a professional translator, but I would bet that among those who are TL notes are completely not allowed. They would probably argue that their job is to provide some equivalent meaning in the target language, not to educate the audience on the source culture.

You and I are are a unique audience though because we are regularly consuming content from one language, and some people want to know what is "really" being said by the characters because they are that invested in the story or interested in Japan. There's no right or wrong way to do this, it's just a question translation philosophy and what you want to get out of your subtitles.
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>>124347881
I've seen professional TL with TL notes but they usually "hide" it between parentheses or some crap.

Also see >>124347656

Americans just want everything to cater to them.
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File: tl-02.jpg (357KB, 600x1218px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>>124348102
An absolutely horrible guide for horrible American "translations".
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>>124348141
I like the way Yen Press handled puns in Yotsubato. They made up puns of their own, but explained the original puns in footnotes.
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>>124348170
Is it better to just say "TL Note: This is a joke" so you know where you are supposed to laugh? You can't explain the humor into a joke.
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>>124348312
That's a decent compromise.
>reading a localization of よつばと
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>>124348102
>The quality of a translation in which the message of the original text has been so transported into the receptor language that the response of the receptor is essentially like that of the original receptors.

Wow they completely misunderstood this. This guy gave a descriptive statement, not a prescriptive one, yet he's acting like this guy is endorsing rewrites, which is what "functional" translation essentially is.

That's you deciding that you understand what the meaning of the original text was and will simply come up with something that you think will have a similar impact on readers in another language.

If you've ever studied literature, you can probably spot the huge problem with this.
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>>124348323
If you want to make jokes of your own so badly, write your own unfunny comic book.
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>>124348323
And you can't presume to understand how the audience would react to the joke. You substituting the original text with your own invention is you preemptively robbing the audience of a chance to experience the original work.

It is the arrogance to assume that only you understand the writing and it has to be dumbed down (unless you presume even that your own writing is superior to the authors) so that others can get it.
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>>124348312
>They made up puns of their own, but explained the original puns in footnotes.

I'd say the optimal solution would be to have those notes at the back of the book. That way they don't distract you while reading and you have more room to elaborate too.
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>>124346340
This guy is pretty autistic
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>>124348407
>That's you deciding that you understand what the meaning of the original text was and will simply come up with something that you think will have a similar impact on readers in another language.

While it's the editor's job to make the text sound good in the target language, and not the translator's, this is what has to ultimately happen, yes.

>>124348503
>And you can't presume to understand how the audience would react to the joke. You substituting the original text with your own invention is you preemptively robbing the audience of a chance to experience the original work.

So is reading a translation. If the reader is already willing to rob themselves of the chance to read the original work, why not make them laugh while they're at it?
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>>124348793
>rob themselves of the chance to read the original work
Not everyone speaks every language. That's where translation comes in.
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>>124346274
Because translation has gone to shit.
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>>124348853
Right. It's a compromise between what you want and what you can actually do.

But people aren't reading manga seeking enlightenment. they're looking for entertainment. If rewriting a pun is the best way to conserve entertainment value, that's what should be done.
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>>124348687
The obsession about not putting translations into signs/pieces of paper/etc. is weird and stupid, but the guy has a point overall.

I don't know very much Moon at all, but I spent a lot of time comparing different translations of Kafka from German to English and reading papers arguing about it.

I really think there's a middle ground, and fansubs and /a/ culture really do have a tendency to get obnoxious for the sake of cliquishness.

To use German as an example, one reason Kafka is so hard to translate is that he takes advantage of the grammar of German for effects that aren't possible with grammatical English. Keeping some extremely long, comma-filled run-on sentences is probably vital to preserving that same effect in an English reader, and screw high school sentence diagramming bullshit. But at the same time, trying to keep everything true to German without any localization loses just as much, and some translations definitely make this mistake.

The idea of trying to have the same effect on the reader seems like the best approach to finding that middle ground.
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File: negima_21_tl-notes.jpg (63KB, 714x400px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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I'm going to venture it may have something to do with the over 9000 threads we used to get about LOL STUPID FANSUBBERS AND THEIR RETARDED TL NOTES.
[Viewer's note: A lot of said fansubbers either browse 4chan directly or get a lot of feedback from 4channers.]
Anyway, it looks like they got the message and we haven't seen much use of TL notes in years, nor have we seen complaining-about-TL-notes threads either.
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>>124348985
I don't want to read what some $8.50-an-hour noname nobody thinks is hilarious. I want to read what the author wrote.
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>>124349096
But if you have to read translation notes you're not getting the experience the author intended for you to get, so meaning gets more lost that way.
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>>124349096
The author wrote in Japanese. Unless you're reading Japanese, you're not reading what the author wrote. When you're reading a translation, you're always reading what some $8.50-an-hour noname nobody thinks is hilarious. Pick your favorite.
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>>124347359
You're clearly on the wrong website.
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Notes and localization are both annoying, the only answer is learn moon.
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>>124346274
>wonder how FFF will "translate" this.
>implying FFF will translate anything.
Thread posts: 38
Thread images: 7


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