>character finally gets her episode then dies
Am I supposed to care about this?
Friendly reminder that Fate and UBW are just supplemental to HF
It's a shallow underdeveloped character. The death is suposed to make you feel sad with how overblown amd overdramatic it is which is just piss poor writing. I haven't read the VN but it seems like Gil did it for a reason though so it has some plot relevancy at least.
As much as I regret giving you this advice, read the VN.
Illya isn't my favorite character but I teared up like a bitch. This was a fucking sad scene. I honestly don't care what all you "tough guy" faggots say because I know you cried like a bitch as well assuming you have the proper background with Illya to understand the scene.
In the VN, the three routes have an enforced playing order. Ilya gets plenty fleshed out in Fate, whereas her development in UBW is minimal. Since it's not actually possible to read UBW without going through Fate first, the reader should already have an attachment to Ilya by the time she's killed in UBW.
That is, admittedly, the biggest flaw to animating Unlimited Blade Works without animation Fate first. Then again, DEEN already did that so maybe that's what they were expecting.
>AgK had a better story
Look they're both trash but AgK is a 1/10 while F/SN is a 3~4/10.
>Nasu's a hack and is only popular because of waifus.
Well, I don't know about that second part. I think that there are a lot of autism related reasons why people like Nasu.
However you are overall right. Nasu is a huge fucking hack. A rich fucking hack.
Honestly, Fate/stay night really isn't the most ideal story to adapt.
Heaven's Feel, of course, has it the worst. The route requires for you to have a deep understanding of the characters and the Holy Grail War in general from the prior routes. It requires for you to understand Shirou's distortion, Archer's identity and Rin's general personality and lifestyle. It has a lot of unanswered questions because those questions were already long since answered in prior routes. Several characters who were really important in prior routes are killed off without much flare.
I really don't know how UFOtable's gonna make it work, and with a movie of all things.
You really don't need to have a deep understanding of anything to understand Heaven's Feel because it isn't that complicated at all. Nasu just need to be better at storytelling than relying on people to read everything else.
Your supposed to have context on Ilya's character from Fate route already. UBW is 2nd route. Do you think people saying to read the fucking VN is a meme or something?
Even then, ufotable added way more than enough material in this episode for you to get to know her and at least sympathize with some of her situation. And then when they adapt HF, this scene isn't going to be going away and you'll have even more information about her to draw from.
>father betrayed the family
>mother is spooky ghost
>grandpa doesn't give a fuck about you
>other homunculus are thrown away like stale milk
>has painful procedures performed on her body for magic purposes
>thrown to the wolves (literally)
You can skip the VN and be a lazy faggot. But do not make these retarded threads when you don't understand things.
It's a little hard to imagine since pretty much everyone who's played through Heaven's Feel have already played through Fate and UBW first, but Shirou's distortion isn't really gone into in great detail in that route. Shirou supposedly loses "everything" in Heaven's Feel. By choosing to save Sakura over becoming a hero, he pretty much breaks the very foundations of who he is and what he's living for. It's supposed to be a nearly soul-shattering decision for him. But without being exposed to Shirou's distortion in full from the other two routes, it's hard to really comprehend why it's such a difficult decision for him.
Also, Heaven's Feel doesn't explain Archer's identity at all. On its own, it basically leaves the reader to guess why Shirou is able to use Archer's arm or why he can access Archer's Reality Marble. Even if you do figure it out on your own, you're left wondering how it even happened in the first place, since Heaven's Feel doesn't explain the mechanics of Servants or the Throne of Heroes at all.
Like I said, Heaven's Feel leaves a shitload of unanswered question because most of those questions are already answered in prior routes.
It's actually isn't that hard to show Shirou's so called distortion in a shorter amount of time and do it better than Nasu already did. But that need Nasu to care about it and actually know what he's doing rather than just adding nonsense so that he can justify on what he's doing.
It kinda is. Shirou's distortion is a threefold issue.
1) He regards others as more important than himself.
2) He is incapable of living for his own sake.
3) He is wholly devoted to a borrowed, impossible ideal.
Heaven's Feel doesn't really show much of 1) or 2) and 3) isn't gone into at all.
The entire deal with Shirou is that he's a fundamentally broken human being, a machine pretending to be human. The only reason he's been able to move forward is by borrowing Kiritsugu's ideal and turning it into his sole function. His issue was hinted at in the Fate route and it was shown in full in Unlimited Blade Works, through his words, thoughts and actions. In Heaven's Feel, you barely get to see any of it.
Well that's an exciting bunch of garbage analysis.
>muh fundamentally broken human being
>muh machine pretending to be human
Nasu is just shit at telling stories and his fans have to make up for his shortcomings.
B-But Berserker was supposed to be the strongest...
Why is Gil such a smug faggot?
WHY DIDN'T SHIROU STOP THIS?
Because in Heavens Feel he throws away that ideal for something he decided on his own. It's real irony that at the end of it he either ends up dead or in a fake body, but no matter which ending he's arguably the most human he's ever been because of his decision.
Except saving Sakura means letting a bunch of people die and forgiving someone who killed a bunch of people for no reason. But saving someone is the same thing no matter the circumstances around it right?
It's more like he didn't wanna retread on prior routes. We already know what Shirou's problems are. We don't need a refresher course.
For Fate, Nasu seems to have taken what he learned from Tsukihime and fixed a lot of issues. Half of Ciel's route was basically a retread of Arcueid's. A lot of the routes shared common events marked by only minor or unnecessary changes between each.
In comparison, Fate minimizes redundant information. Most of the stuff we learn in Fate route isn't repeated significantly in UBW. Heaven's Feel assumes you've already gone through the other two routes so it doesn't go too deeply into them since we already have that information embedded in our heads. We don't need a refresher course for who Archer is or how his Reality Marble works, so the route doesn't explain those things. We don't need to know the identity of Saber's Noble Phantasm, so it has no need to explain any of that either. We already know who Gilgamesh and Caster are, so we don't need any extra information concerning those two before they die.
>I-It's sad because it happened to a cute girl who did nothing wrong!
But what about Accelerator? Could he not just vector that shit?
Accelerator as Berserker-class
Superman is most OP unless Fate cast suddenly start getting them made up green rocks or shooting lzur beams which only temporarily knock him out in some cannons.
Superman is the worst super hero.
I dunno. I'd say Wonder Woman is worse, if only because most writers seem to have no idea what to do with her. The only reason she continues to exist is because she's an iconic character and DC's in dire need of a prominent heroine, but the character is pretty much completely incapable of standing on her own and you really get feeling that most writers just really struggle with her.
I think if you're throwing literally every legendary weapon in history, you're eventually going to find something that does that job, and he only has so many lives.
I think Wonder woman still has potential. I don't remember exactly which one it was, but she was pretty useful and qt in one of the Justice League cartoons.
I'm talking about the anime because the post I replied to says how are Ufotable going to do this. They could just add scenes that can explain on most of what's going on. They shouldn't have to read the LN or the prior story before this.
Heaven's Feel doesn't really get that many opportunities to show off how broken Shirou is. I mean, it's not like any non-Servants die in front of him. Ironically, for a route where Shirou struggles with his ideals more than any other, Shirou actually meets LESS external resistance than in the other two routes. The one exception, of course, is Saber, whom Shirou has to kill in order to save Sakura.
>butthurt retard who wasted their already worthless time playing a shitty eroge
The etymology of "Secondaries" comes from the superior ability of these individuals to delay gratification, and thus receive two marshmallows. This ability highly correlates with success, education, health and weight control. In this context, it refers to their ability to wait for a superior release in a superior medium (anime).
>In these studies, a child was offered a choice between one small reward provided immediately or two small rewards if they waited for a short period: approximately 15 minutes, during which the tester leave the room and then return. (The reward was sometimes a marshmallow, but often a cookie or a pretzel.) In follow-up studies, the researchers found that children who were able to wait longer for the preferred rewards tended to have better life outcomes, as measured by SAT scores, educational attainment, body mass index (BMI), and other life measures.
It is not surprising at all that bitter "primaries" who are often unintelligent, overweight, and unsuccessful at life, would attempt to turn it into a pejorative.
I'm sure someone can explain this better but basically, Rin did a thing with the gem sword, and because of that anybody who can possibly survive the grail war in an alternate timeline is around. Kirei for example doesn't show up because he dies in every timeline.
There is no timeline in which the 5th Grail War happens and Kirei Kotomine is alive. They are mutually exclusive, and this cannot be changed no matter what you do. Zeltrech could spend billions of years in subjective time checking different parallel worlds, but he won't find one with the 5th War and Kirei alive.
Haven't been watching because I'm waiting for it to end for a marathon but holy shit. It's "you're strong, Berserker" already?
I don't think I can handle that scene animated.
The UBW movie doesn't count, they did a terrible job.
Go read ufo twitter.
They cut some stuff and barely made tv regulation with this episode. Pictured is Ilya's corpse.
People at the pre screening said there was better angles on Ilyas eyes being cut that were removed.
No way surgery is getting in tv broadcast
You are forced to play through Fate first in the VN.
That is 7 in-game days of having Illya board over at Emiya's for cooking SOL.
Anyone would have gotten emotionally attached after being forcefed 4 hours worth of loli oniichan~ text.
That you don't even know this means you didn't read the VN.
This is true, and HF is definitely the best route, but it doesn't change the fact Sakura is the least compelling heroine and is only really interesting because of how shockingly shit her life is.
Her actual role and personality in the route is essentially to just be a doe eyed victim that gets violated and tortured over and over again for the sake of the audiences' amusement. Just about the only depth to her as a character beyond this is her dark and selfish urges to cripple Shirou to get him out of the war.
That said, if she handled all the cards Nasu dealt to her with some level of character she'd have probably been the most interesting heroine.
Friendly reminder Sakura's the least popular heroine in UBW and behind a few male characters. Also, you're trying too hard. They're all their own stories. And if you really want to be bitchy about it, Nasu and friends said multiple times that the story of FSN was always meant to be about Saber. And Saber has a full route. And End of the Dream is all Saber, and the last ending you unlock in the VN.
All the routes stand on their own. Each having exposition that is fully explained in HF doesn't make them supplementary material. Sasuga Sakurafags. Nobody cares about your wormslut. Illya actually being the heroine of the route was what made it palpable. She had far more screen time and just as much relevance as Sakura.
I'm really getting tired of the "Nasu is a shit writer" meme. If you take the entire internet at face value, every writer who ever lived has been condemned as shit at one point in time. How is anyone supposed to take that blanket criticism seriously?
Kirei is dead, that's why Caren's able to sneak in Bazett's dream. Extra irony points that she's his daughter
In the "real" world (the one we see in the epilogue, when bazett visits the actual emiya household) it looks like things are pretty much similar to how it was depicted in the dreams, and the prologue with everyone swapping ghost stories seem to have actually happened in the real world too. Presumably this means Rin's little dimension accident actually happens, and the "default" state of the Fate-verse is basically what is depicted in F/ha, except with probably less sex and silly antics
part of what they repeatedly emphasize in the VN is that while what is depicted doesn't actually happen, Avenger doesn't "fake" any of the events - in the same situation, Shirou and the rest of the cast would have ended up in the same situation. That's how Avenger-Shirou mananages to meet up with Caren after all
How could you not care?
I legit had tears, man. Not even lying.
You either have no history with the character or you're just an autist with no empathy. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
He was really fucking shit when he wrote FSN at least.
It's hard to care about a writer who barely had any idea how to write.
He got better recently sure but we are talking about FSN here
I mean, you care a little, but that much?
At this point in *my* life it made me sad because I've seen and played everything Fate. I've spent so much time with her that watching her suffer like that actually hurt.
The scene here is so good because ufotable too strong, not because of the actual source material.
In UBW Gil knew he was fucking heracles so he knew he had to take things seriously. In Zero he was playing around with mad barking dog.
Also Lancelot had better stats for a berzerk class, the ability to throw back weapons becomes much more useful against somebody like Gil.
If Gil had decided to use those chains on lancelot it would had ended pretty fast.
Heracles had a huge handicap, his master was right there, and they had a deeper relationship compared to other sane servants & masters. Lancelot would care less if his master was hurt.
>Lancelot would care less if his master was hurt.
I don't think a Berserker can stick around for very long at all after their master dies, so I doubt he wouldn't care. At least up until the point where he could punish his kingu.
>not caring about dat ass
Tohsakas hair just does not make sense to me
An inherent flaw of pretty much every F/SN adaption is that each of the animated routes don't really work standalone. The routes kinda rely on each other, including some bad end routes so you have a big picture. A lot of the character drama relies on you knowing the big picture, otherwise you just wonder why you should give a fuck about this or that side event. As such, the adaptions serve mostly just as fan service for established VN fans who know beforehand why they should give a fuck about someone like Ilya. Without previously established bonds from earlier routes, it ends up being somewhat jarring to watch UBW. "Oh look, the loli who attacked Shirou and Rin in cour 1 finally gets involved. Oh, she got some some sad backstory apparently. Oh, now she's dead. Oh, well, she just served to job. I guess the blonde dude is where it's at. I wonder if she was important. Oh well, moving on I guess."
There's really not much they could do to amend that. While cramming most of a character background in their last episode is overdone and emotionally manipulative her history would feel out of place in the other episodes.
In UBW lllya is secluded on the Einzbern fortress after the events of the first day, fleshing her out on random episodes would take away from the main events and fuck up pacing considerably.
Furthermore people jumping straight into UBW is rare even among secondaries, Ufotable is tying it to Zero with some nods here and there. It's getting the sequel treatment so most should at least know her superficially through Kerry and Irisviel past.
The show is written as a sequel to Zero though, so that doesn't really wash.
I mean, she's *in* Zero, and so's her mom. Going in you already know her relationship with Shirou, that's why they've been so explicit about it even though she doesn't' even mention it in the VN until HF.
That's what all the "forced drama" (what the fuck does that even *mean*?) throughout the episode was for. It was filling in the gaps between the two shows.
If TM ever makes an actually new-new large-scale game again I'd imagine Nasu would just do one storyline with minor heroine variations instead of drastically changing the storyline and having to field questions about "what REALLY happened?!" for the rest of his life.
>they dont even show the eye slashing or the stabbing, it fades to black for a few frames
Really? Fuck this shit, fucking pussies. And people expect the heart surgery? Hahahaha
Will it be on the BDs maybe?
I love the character interaction here. It adds a lot of depth to otherwise unknown characters. Gil's enkidu. Hercules backstory. Still disappointed they didn't pipe in Berserkers roar directly. Really felt like this was catering to Gilfags more than anything, like Oh look at the brute deflect 4 swords before getting stabbed. It should be 30 or so before he couldn't keep up and he gets stabbed only when hes going to defend Illya.
Except adaptations are supposed to be able to stand up on their own.
It would be like if Magneto appeared out of nowhere in Avengers 2, made ominous dialogue used his powers but never once get called QS and SW's feature or mention mutants.
The sex scenes also have replacement CGs in the VN.
It's that way in most places, dumbass. Americans are the ones with their priorities inverted. You can blow someone brains out, saw their arm off and all is fine and dandy, but the moment they show some nudity shit has gone too far. Little Timmy could get traumatized seeing a naked female body
Reminds me of a Sopranos clip on youtube. The reason why it was age restricted was because you could see a pair of tits for half a second, not because it had people being shot to death and run over by cars.
My only familiarity with the Fate series is from Kaleid Prisma and Ilya was a cutie in that which made me pick up UBW. After I completed the first season of that I've d/led the Fate Zero series but yet to start it.
Seeing Ilya in pain or suffering or death does irritate me.
I was annoyed that her loli friend Miu doesn't seem to be in the main series.
Hate me for being a secondary and anime only but I really don't care.
I quite like how they showed Berserker getting caught by the chains by having him do some fancy dodging first only to have him caught then thrown down.
All Kalafina songs all sound the same to me.
WHERE IS THE FUCKING MUSIC
This whole episode lost so much impact because it was silent 90% of the time, the sound direction has been fucking horrible the last couple of episodes
Ignore it, Sakurafags are so used to abuse they'll blow any small victory out of proportion. He is probably still talking about that april fool's twitter event. Which is pretty flawed because it doesn't account for people who followed everyone regardless of their feeling for said character that just a couple of characters were linked in the main site, the short time span and that t was all determined by the content
While I am glad they dedicated an entire episode to this it leaves me wondering what else they're going to give an entire episode. Shirou vs Red man needs to be at least 2. And I am wondering when they will fit in lancer vs caster from the OP in. Will there be Taiga dojos?
No, I really looked forward to this episode, but the pacing was all weird and it felt like they just wanted to spoonfeed Illyas backstory to the scrubs who didn't read the VN.
Well Ilya died to Gil while Sakura killed Gil, clearly one girl is better than the other.
You know in most source materials the two are friendly rivals. There's one story where Merlyn prophecies that a certain sword is cursed to kill the man the wielder loves most, which becomes the sword Lancelot gives Gawaine his fatal wound.
Entirely different things, capeshit doesn't commit to adapting one comic faithfully it gets it material from multiple histories plus new content by subpar scriptwriters. See the DEEN version for reference of shit OC and badly mixed routes
>There's very little reason to be emotionally attached to Illya at that point in F/SN
That's why they put that flashback there. It hits you harder when you finish HF and remember everything Illya related from every route.
For these reasons, Illya is the best Fate.
Do you seriously have nothing better to do then to go from one Fate thread to another and Shitpost?
>not crying like a bitch at this scene
If Miyu exists anywhere in this UBW universe (kaleidoscope etc. etc. etc.), she'd have probably been near Shirou on the night of the fire, since they were blood-related.
Which means she's either a) dead in the fire, or b) one of those orphans Gil uses for prana.
Lancer vs Cater is just for the OP, they done something similar with Assassin on the first cour if I'm not mistaken. There's no space for extra stuff that doesn't help moving the plot and fleshing out supporting characters at this point.
You don't know that going into the VN raw. Hell even F/Z doesn't really dive too deep into Illya or the Eizenbern's history. If she wanted Shirou dead it would've happened when they left the church. Besides all the market place scenes. Maybe I just want a Homunculus daughteru of my own to abandon for some redheaded child I found in the ruins of my greatest achievement.
We cant help it, Sakura is a very polarising character story wise, she is either irrelevant or the main focus, no half measures
You are biased. Sure he is fucked up, but you get a bit of that in the flashbacks. It's all in her upbringing and that is made clear in the VN. The hell did you want anime OC of her torturing people? She only pulls that shit on some scenarios of the Grail War.
>The hell did you want anime OC of her torturing people?
I wanted the anime to show more of her being the brutal murderous bitch she is. They where obviously pandering hard to Ilya fans this episode.
Well yeah, Nobody likes murderous cunt IIya, nor the IIya that actually has a bit of an adult kind of personality. They want the kawaii one. That's why there's no hints of her being sinister at all in this adaption, even when she appeared in the first cour talking about how she'd want to make Shirou pay for Kirtsugu's betrayal or how she tried to have Beserker kill Rin,Shirou and Saber.
You should probably take the guy's advice and tone it down a peg. If people don't like a character, and this is Ilya's time in the limelight.
Or at least make yourself look better by adding salve to the poor Ilya fans with some pics from that doujin One Day! by Ronpaia. You can even post the pic where Ilya is riding on Sakura's shoulders looking for Rider. I would have posted it myself if I had it on me.
Whatever happened to lumpy head Shirou? I miss him.
>her being the brutal murderous bitch she is
How? In what instance she kills people outside of the bad routes? You wanted them to show something that isn't there, they can't just put a footnote with trivia about the VN. They allude at her twisted character, but that's all. She is not some nonredeemable monster
You will stop wanting to learn spanish for that, when you find most spanish subbed episodes are eye-gouging, 50MB, cancerous "light" mp4 versions for south america spics with shitty internet.
Dude, reading comprehension
Gil comments that he has never found someone who can come back from the dead when killed, and that he doesn't have a NP with such ability.
In that sense he's praising Heracles, as he has something the King doesn't have
>She only tortures/kills people in the most disgusting ways outside of the perfect route.
Do you not see how stupid that sounds? Even in the perfect route is is willing and capable to do such things. They might even happen off screen in the perfect route. She never is a good girl outside of her pretending to be.
Berserker is literally the worst class for him. He loses nearly every Noble Phantasm he has along with his massive combat skill and cunning, in exchange for a physical stat buff that means jackshit since he's an unstoppable juggernaut even without it.
Archer is his best class as he has access to all his NPs, including one that allows him to launch a ranged assault in which he hits the enemy a hundred times near simultaneously with the force of his strongest sword strike as Berserker.
It has the best stats and its servants are typically fantastic versus magi because of magic resistance, but there's no rule stating its the best class for every hero.
For example, Medea would be a fucking awful Saber.
Ilya and Dark Sakura are equally good Masters. Only difference is that with the latter he'll get blackened, which leads to the whole "car without any brakes" analogy from who knows how long ago.
Illya's the best possible Master you can get, honestly.
Herc's one of the best Servants. Gil's just not really beatable if you're a Servant, unless he underestimates you so you get a chance to wreck him.
Archer's his "best" class, but Saber is apparently the best for Nine Lives spam.
Have you read Tsukihime/KnK/KT? If not, read those. i also really like Alliance of Illusory Eyes, it's a short thing that comes with Tsukihime, so if you like Tsukihime give that a shot.
Fate stuff, so with F/Z's LN, Apocrypha, Prototype Fragments, and Extra. There are plenty of others, but if you can't read moon then you'll only be able to get fragments.
DDD's also good, but I don't remember what the translation on it is like. I also don't think CCC has a translation yet, so that's sad, and I know Mahoyo doesn't, so those are probably out of your reach if you don't know moon.
...there is an LN.
Gawain was said to be stronger than Arthuria, and he's super OP with Numeral of the Saint activated, Not to mention his Excaliclone.
>Siegfried says hi.
Siegfried is an all-rounder, good in most situations but excellent in none. Sieg only matched Karna with two other NPs that weren't Siegfried's. He's easily blown out of the water by many heroes.
>Gawain during the day says hi.
Gawain during the night says "well okay".
>Prototype Saber says hi.
Prototype Saber is locked down under 13 undefined restraints that he has to satisfy to become truly OP.
It's rather annoying how FSN is an endless string of happenstance occurrences of the "lol this character is normally insanely strong, too bad he's gimped atm because [random reason], so the other guy won" variety.
That's in a matter of personal power. Herakles is described as "the most powerful hero", but that doesn't mean he can best Gilgamesh in a fight.
Gawain's skill at arms isn't the greatest and his noble phantasm is decisively inferior to Excalibur.
His stats are better-ish than hers, but his NP is way shittier. The range on it is weird, and the rank is just A+, so his trump is significantly more meh.
We don't actually know what NotS does besides a lot of conjectures because it literally just says "status becomes nonstandard". It probably means EX because they used nonstandard to represent EX in other things like Jeanne, but who knows.
Achilles, I'm guessing?
His Thunderdome apparently negates God Hand, so if it's Berserker then without God Hand, it becomes a straight match-up. Their stats are similar, both have Battle Continuation, etc, so I'd give it to Achilles because he's still sane and has other NPs he can access. Herc might be able to smash him before/while he activates the Thunderdome though.
You should see the scrapped NP they had in planning for her.
Fucking Sirrush and its bullshit.
>stronger than Arthuria
Not with Garden of Avalon wanking Shitber to near Gil levels
Unless Galatine is also secretly an Anti-type weapon designed to wipe out ancient aliens and enemies of humanity
Pretty sure they acknowledged him giving Tristan is "bow" which is not exactly a bow
And? We'll hold that against her. Judge her for thought crimes or potential to kill? That's silly. I'm not saying she is a saint, far from that. But there's no evidence she does that shit to random people on daily basis and there's noting to gain adding intrusive new content to show she is a psycho.
>You're strong, Berserker
But he's not even the strongest man
A scrapped NP they had for Nero was Sirrush from Babylonian myth, because of the whole "whore of babylon" thing conflating with her legend and her getting it as an NP as a misunderstanding, kind of like Semi and her Gardens.
It's a Babylonian Divine Beast, so probably only a little below the Divine Bull. The kicker though is that it's also the backbone for the Beast of Revelation and the original owner of the "Ten Crowns", so you could wank it into having a watered-down Potnia Thereon if you want.
They decided "it's too broken, also Nero's not a Rider", so they scrapped it.
The fact that they decided it was too broken in a game where Gil is playable says a lot.
>I'd give it to Achilles because he's still sane and has other NPs he can access
In the duel field? No he doesn't. He loses his spear (given by his father), his chariot (given by Poseidon), his divine protection, and his shield (both given by his mother).
He's just down to his speed boost, which is contrasted against Herakles' superior power. It would be a cool match, but Herakles has phenomenal speed too, so I doubt it'd be a good enough edge.
If he gets Thunderdome up without getting smashed into paste, and Herc is Berserker? Yeah, Achilles has an edge, because they have similar stats and similar skills. With God Hand up, Achilles will lose hard, but since Thunderdome was described as being able to negate God Hand, once the Thunderdome is up Herc has zero NPs, similar stats, similar skills, and zero sanity, while Achilles has his sanity and four other NPs, one of which makes him Sonic.
Herc in a different class would probably win, but if it's Hercserker then it's all about if Achilles can activate Thunderdome in time or not.
Eh, Achilles was pretty fucking OP. As soon as he got off his ass in the Iliad, he obliterated everything in his path until the gods had to stop him personally because he was fighting another god and it was impolite.
And then there's Hector, probably the second most awesome hero at Troy, and Achilles murdered him in about three hits.
Then after he's dead and goes down to the Underworld, he rules that island in Elysium along with Helen.
The actual legend doesn't matter in Nasuland.
He loses three of those NPs in the "Thunderdome". All he has is Comet.
Comet is probably enough for him to win, honestly though, just because they're so similar outside of that and Comet makes him the fastest man alive. If Herc was any class besides Berserker though, I'd give it to him 100%.
Nothing strategic about "lol Herc is insanely strong, but got summoned into a shit class, so his main advantages got nulled". It's just arbitrary bad luck so he can be gimped for plot reasons, but save face of the legend. Or the often quoted "lol Gil is so arrogant to the point of stupidity, so Shirou can off him with a come behind victory". It all reeks of convenient lucky turns instead of characters being smart about setting the time and place of battle.
>until the gods had to stop him personally because he was fighting another god and it was impolite.
Last I checked the gods intervened because Scamander was kicking his ass and they wanted him alive.
>Bastard lovechild of Fate powerlevel autism and Raildex powerlevel autism
This thread is hideous on a scale I never thought we'd see on /a/.
Its more like it isn't worth mentioning again a hero is meant to be upheld in the light. Not hey remember that one time Odysseus got kicked in the nuts by Poseidon? Repeatedly?
>Saber could have rode the origin for the Beast of Revelation and wielded a degraded version of Potnia Thereon if she'd just chosen to become a Rider
Holy fuck, and I thought the shit she pulls with Imperial Privilege and her marble phantasm was ridiculous already.
She'd be nearly Gilgamesh tier as a Rider.
Why didnt Shirou just trace a gun and shoot gilgamesh?
He was having trouble, but I don't recall Scamander actually kicking his ass.
Fight was basically Scamander telling him to stop it, Achilles refusing and attacking, and the river just kept smashing him with wave after wave and knocking him down until Achilles got fed up. Wasn't actually hurting Achilles, just keeping him from continuing his rampage.
Then Scamander attacks even harder and asks Simois for help against Achilles because Achilles is gaining the upper hand against him and the two of them together would have been enough to kill Achilles, so Hera, who's been watching, calls on Hephaestus, who burns the rivers with god-fire to get them to back off while Poseidon and Athena whisk Achilles away.
Yeah but it's not as amusing when you phrase it that way.
Wait, so if Nero is summoned as a Rider she could theoretically take on a less powerful version of BB's skillset?
Jesus fuck, I really need to read CCC's supplementary materials and play more than the Gil route. There's still fuckloads I clearly do not know.
Here (Scamander is talking to Simois):
>"Dear brother, the strength of this man let the two of us together stay, since soon he will lay waste the great city of King Priam, and the Trojans will not withstand him in battle. But bring help quickly, and fill your streams with water from your springs, and rouse all your torrents. Raise a great wave, and stir up a mighty din of logs and stones, so that we may check this wild warrior who now has the upper hand and is eager to act equally to the gods."
Then Hera sees it and tells Hephaestus to stop what they're doing.
>You're strong Basakaa
>Basakaa is the strongest
>AND YOU CAN ALL KISS THE PEOPLE'S ASS
>THE JABRONI BEATING, SWORD EATING, THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS
Kinda similar actually. I remember seeing this gif somewhere and wanted to know the origin of it.
Not wanting to be a secondary read the VN, watched Zero, sat through DEEN, reading Hollow and have Tsuki on standby. Thanks for the journey /a/
That last bit on it having Ten Crowns is just my conjecture, but since it's literally the owner of the Ten Crowns, and BB's teacher's cane that gives her super-Authority is literally made out of Sirrush's crowns, I feel like it's not too much of a stretch to get to.
Tsuki is a thrill.
I strongly disagree as a matter of writing and direction. F/SN is far more professionally handled, though still very sloppy in many regards.
I can't really name a single thing Tsukihime does better?
I am inclined to agree.
I'll believe it when I see it.
But yeah, the Fate routes are pretty terrible to her, she's one of the characters you can actually feel bad for considering she just wanted the love of her father and mother (and then eventually adopted onii-chan).
I find it interesting that nearly all the best stuff in Nasu's worldbuilding stems from him misinterpreting or failing to fully research real life myths and folklore before including it in his stuff.
Eh, the atmosphere of Tsukihime went out the window when it turned out the main character was an invincible assassin who can kill every threat in an instant. So around the Nrvnqsr fight.
I think F/SN had a better protagonist and villains as well as generally better writing and presentation, but Tsukihime explored more interesting concepts, had more satisfying endings, had a more consistent pacing, and that the heroines were generally more interesting.
I like both a lot, but while I prefer F/SN I feel that the Tsukihime remake has the potential to one up it if it expands on the villains and removes issues like having to do the same fucking scenes five times across all routes at times or the generally terrible visual presentation and sfx.
Rin gets Saber.
Archer fights Shirou and gets his ass beat.
Shinji becomes the grail.
(you aren't human)
Gil jobs to Shirou
Rin and Shirou have lusty, sweaty sex at the clocktower.
Name a fight other than bad ends where he loses harder than "gets kinda woozy from blood loss".
Even when stabbed in a dot of life he just gets back up and limps to the school and kills Roa even easier than Nrvnqsr.
We'll get to see Shirou tell Lancer to back off Rin.
I finished Ciel route the other week, and my opinion was the journey was better but the endings sucked. Similar feeling for arc route. FSN has better "presentation" since it has voice acting and better graphics, but in my opinion tsukihime has a better journey in general since you're not going off on random deitos and sex scenes every other day.
So many other characters can wreck Shiki it's not even funny. He's not invincible; he just plays his cards smartly and uses the situation to his advantage. You're complaining about Shiki being invincible, but in the same fucking story Ciel literally can't die.
I'm complaining that Shiki is plot armored, badly. Nothing in his story can effectively threaten him, even if they're "much stronger". Nrvnqsr was the first and last real challenge for him, and he died instantly once Shiki decided to actually defend himself.
They're much shorter and not particularly common as F/SN's.
Beyond that, I'm talking about in the main story. Shiki just doesn't lose. The one time he does lose, it barely halts his progress and he wins instantly with the same ease next time.
>So the whole route where he's literally going insane doesn't count?
Uh, no? Why would it?
>Ahika and Roa weren't threats?
Considering the fights they put up.. no, they weren't.
I'm I being trolled here? How the fuck does Roa slowly possessing Shiki and turning him crazy not count as a threat? Literally, all Ahika had to do was look at Shiki and would have been a goner. Hell, that's MORE of a threat than Nero was.
And fails to do so... why? Right, because the plot isn't about threatening Shiki.
"X can kill him but fails to do so" is not a threat. He dispenses of Roa just as easily in Ciel's route, and Akiha stops her assault voluntarily.
Pretty much, unless what halts their interference is external.
Being saved by the cavalry, for instance. Pulling yourself out of a well means you were never stuck in the goddamn well.
Lost my sides at the rightmost panel second from the bottom.
This makes the classics infinitely more interesting. The best part is that it fits perfectly for almost every myth.
The mangaka was proven to be an immortal vampire, right? What's to say he wasn't around in Ancient Greece and based his style on the actual behavior of the gods and heroes he witnessed?
>Lancelot's theme stars playing during Heracles/Gil battle