Digital animation looks like garbage. How long until we go back

>>123482379
First off, you're a fucking retard.

You're not old enough to remember when cel animation was the norm. Stepping BACKWARDS from digital to cel would be like getting rid of cars and replacing them with horses. It would also most likely kill the anime industry, because not enough shows would be made on time. Look at a list of anime that aired in 1993, and look at the list from 2013.

When you build a time machine OP


>>123482552
Digital looks way worse, this is a fact

>>123482552
Oh and what is killing the industry is the overabundance of shows

>>123482630
>this is a fact
Saying "this is a fact" doesn't make it one, you fucking /v/ monkey.
>>123482686
Yeah, that must be why anime has made more money than ever since it switched to digital.

>>123482686
No. Saturation is a symptom, not a cause.

>>123482552
>Look at a list of anime that aired in 1993, and look at the list from 2013.

Okay, I just did, and 93 beats 13 by a long shot. Unless, you were implying that quantity supersedes quality, but I can't possibly imagine why any serious fan would consider that.

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3D is the future, and good riddance to 2D. And we can get rid of 8 and 12 FPS while we're at it.

It's too expensive to use cel animation these days and the new animator generation isn't trained to do cel at all, so never.

>>123482379
Never.

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>>123482379
>Digital animation looks like garbage.

It is only a matter of time till the "average" digital anime looks better than the best cel anime ever made.

>>123482379
I prefer cel animation, but if the people making the anime genuinely give a shit about their product and expend the time and effort to write a good story and draw decent designs and animation, you'll still get a solid show/movie

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>>123482552
>horses

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>>123482552
>>123484918
>cars

>>123484732
>disgusting filters and lens flare

>>123484732
That does look like garbage, though.

>>123484918
>>123484969

you just made me really sad

What's the point of this thread? Are you going to do something about it? git gud grandpa

Why can't they make digital just look like cell? It should be possible, right?

>>123485103
For most of the part, yes. But why bother with the old style when you can do different things with digital composite?

>>123484732
You can't possibly tell me you don't know a lot of modern anime backgrounds are traced photography shots with lots of effects applied. Is it not obvious enough that the actual characters look a lot more simplistic/different? Just watch any modern Kyoani anime and it is very clear, even to a casual watcher.

>>123485294
So? The results can still be pleasing if done right. It's not like all painted backgrounds were good back then.

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>>123485294
I thought we were talking about how anime LOOKS not how hard the animators work....

>>123484154
shaft is the only studio that uses cgi correctly

>>123485405
That's a good joke mate.

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>>123485294
>Is it not obvious enough that the actual characters look a lot more simplistic/different?
Yeah, I wish anime was as detailed as it used to be.

>>123485391
>>123485401
The blur and lens effects do not look good. It breaks the contrast and becomes uncanny, even if the characters are designed to work with the effects. You will notice it looks lazy and even worse in the future, trust me

>>123484154
Have you seen Sidonia? It looks like shit.

>>123482379
Fuck you, digital animation is just starting to look decent. At least it's not as horrible as the early days.

>>123485498
Look at that disgusting modern digital anime I think I'm going to hurl

>>123485405
They made them abstract instead of realistic, which works for some shows, but for the other shows like Nisekoi it just make the scene detaches from reality.

>>123485498
That single screenshot has a lot more detail and shades than any digital anime.

>>123485766
No?

>>123485766
Are you serious? Each block only has one shade of color.

>>123485103
There was that one Shirobako ED.

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>>123485896
Apparently you're colorblind.

>>123486062
I'm pretty sure it's you.

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>>123482552
>Stepping BACKWARDS from digital to cel would be like getting rid of cars and replacing them with horses.
That's a retarded analogy. Both mediums have their advantages. But you've got to be kidding yourself if you think that the average digital anime takes advantage of it. The shift to digital ended up being purely a monetary advantage in most cases.

>>123485391
I've seen a lot of cel anime, and not just the "classics" that have abnormal budgets or have a renowned studio. I've never seen a cel anime with legitimately bad painted background. Even the ones that aren't so good at least never look flat.

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Nostalgiafags blow the fuck out.

>>123486062
What are you trying to prove with images that are neither that screenshot nor CGI?

>>123486062
He's right though, there is literally zero shading on the woman in >>123485498

>>123486120
when was one week ago

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>31 episode TV show from 1982
>has better animation quality than any modern TV anime and no "bad" episodes despite its length and the amount of action

You can't explain that.

>>123486120
But neither of those look good.
And Twinkle Heart was awful.

>>123486062
>using a high budget anime as an example
Every fucking time.

>>123486230
>Desucky
>good

>>123486217
When otaking "delivered". I still haven't watched his pseudo-Japanese cartoon of a non-Japanese franchise.

>>123486217
Mar 24, 2015

>>123486230
>That pan up at 0:04
DEEN pls

>>123485740
but atleast work sometimes, and the others never make it work

>>123486062
Still looks like shit, and what >>123486248 posted.

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>>123486282
I'll fight you

>>123482552
More like replacing MP3s with vinyl.

>>123486282

Someone wants the twisted stick.

>>123486514
Perfect analogy, it's only circlejerking hipster nostalgiafags that think it's better.

>>123486514
High bit rate mp3 is better than vinyl.

>>123486110
>Both mediums have their advantages.
What advantage do cels have from a production perspective?

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Nah, digital is fine.

What is "digital anime"?

>>123486461
>Still looks like shit

I dare you to even try and explain why.

>>123486594
>fate/zero
>fine

>>123486660
The current method of creating anime.

>>123486514
No, it isn't.
Because one is about techniques of getting something done while you are talking about different end products.
More like going back from iron knives to sharp stone because the cut of stones are more natural, less straight.

>>123486769
How?

>>123486592
Rescanning.
There's a reason why BDs from the early digital era look like shit.

>>123486764
>That
>Fate/Zero

>>123486764
That's not even from F/Z, are you blind? F/Z's digital composite is actually pretty good for most of the part anyway.

>>123486788
By incorporating computers, as opposed to painting and filming each frame individually.

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>>123484918
Interesting example considering Dancouga was basically animated in the same style as Macross. Ping ponging from literal slideshows to fucking fantastic animation seemingly at random.

Great show overall though. Especially the OVAs.

>>123486788
they draw the frames in photoshop and other kinds of software and the entire process is digital, unlike drawing cells by hand like what Disney did for their classic films.

>>123486248
Example for what? High budget generally tends to look better from whichever era.

>>123486842
Correct

>>123486901
Wrong

>>123486901
>they draw the frames in photoshop and other kinds of software and the entire process is digital
Stop posting right this instant.

>>123486901
>they draw the frames in photoshop and other kinds of software and the entire process is digital
>these are the fucking retards claiming that digital looks like shit
I FUCKING KNEW IT

It's still hand-drawn, you fucking ape.

>>123486901
>they draw the frames in photoshop and other kinds of software and the entire process is digital, unlike drawing cells by hand
Why the fuck am I not surprised this is the kind of mongoloid shitting on digital anime? Go back to /v/ so you can jerk off to Cowboy Bebop or something.

>>123486855
>pretty much still image
>1.49 MB webm
For what reason, just to keep the grain?

>>123487082
To give you the genuine Macross experience.

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>>123486901
I love when an underage retard gets his ass handed to him with his own argument

>>123486982
>>123487011
>>123487012
>>123487053
Didn't say whether or not I liked digital animation. You are all projecting.

>>123482379
>a non artist talking as if he knows anything about either

>>123487160
And you're embarrassing yourself, stop.

>>123486594

That looks like shit, though not because it's digital. The shading is just weak. See >>123486062
for example of proper shading.

>>123485681
While we're cherry picking, the Captain Harlock movie looks amazing.

Sidonia would've been fine if it were rendered at a higher frame-rate and had more natural character/facial animation (perhaps motion capture could help), but most of the time CGI is used to cut corners in anime instead of using it as a stylistic choice, so it's usually not feasible to do a 100% CGI anime.

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>>123487160
>Didn't say whether or not I liked digital animation
That was not the point of your original post.

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>>123487160
Don't dig yourself deeper, be a fucking man and gracefully fuck off.

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>>123486592
Well, I think one we've been seeing a lot in the past couple of years is scalability in regards to format. While film itself is fragile, you can always rescan it into new resolutions without it looking like shit. Anything mastered digitally will have to be upscaled by software.

By physically inking with cels, you have variance attributed to a human artist. This is what a lot of people mean when they say "x feels warm" or "y has no soul and heart unlike x" or whatever. This breaks up flatness and more importantly does not need to be done purposely. With digital you actually have to make effort to make shit not look flat. This is what I meant when saying digital can look good but they don't often take advantage of it.

In terms of money it is obviously more expensive because it is more labor and time intensive as a medium. You can argue that that also because of that you have more attention paid to quality in the production process.

>>123486824
>>123486838

That's kotomine kirei, are you blind?

>>123487290
>In terms of money it is obviously more expensive because it is more labor and time intensive as a medium.

Too bad Japan's economy has stagnated for 2 decades.

>>123487290
>Anything mastered digitally will have to be upscaled by software.

If you draw anime using vectors it's a piece of cake.

>In terms of money it is obviously more expensive because it is more labor and time intensive

More expensive than digital even after putting in all the effort to make anime not look like shit?

>>123487278
you should take the advice of your own pic.

>>123487290
>This is what a lot of people mean when they say "x feels warm" or "y has no soul and heart unlike x"
No, it means that in the latter case people were lazy and did a quick job.
Modern anime has lots of cheap digital coloring, which allows for large, uniform areas, maybe with one or two effects sprinkled on them.

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>>123486764
You are trying too hard. Yet people are biting anyway.

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>>123486855

Oh, Dancouga definitely didn't have consistently good animation and detailed art all the way through. It's just an interesting comparison to make because it's the same mecha, drawn by the same artist, using different techniques, yet there's a massive quality jump.

Look at how terrible this Dragonar looks with all its gradients and shit.

>>123487420
>If you draw anime using vectors it's a piece of cake.
Only characters and moving parts, nobody make vectors for background since the method of drawing is different.

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>>123487482

Then there's this.

>>123487482
Maybe that guy's just shit with digital coloring?

>>123487510

Nobody cares about backgrounds anyway. Just have the computer generate some shit, nobody would notice.

Old anime looks totally better guys. I've browsed 2 /m/ webm threads so I know what I'm talking about.

>>123487589
That's how skynet was created.

>>123487589
>i'mjustpretendingtoberetarded.jpg

>>123487663

Literally nobody watches anime for the backgrounds. Do you think people would care if trees or rocks or whatever was digitally generated? No.

>>123487558
over designed garbage

No better than Hollywood and video game shit so cluttered with bad with nonsense to hide how bad the fundamental design really is.

>>123485405
You should watch the TV air of Mekaku City actors, that was ridiculous.

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How did we go from this....

>>123487663
>tripfag
>not a fucking retard
Pick one.

>>123487589
> Just have the computer generate some shit
How?

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>>123487768
TO THIS!?

FUCK modern anime and FUCK digital animation!

>>123487786
http://vterrain.org/Plants/plantsw.html

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>>123487764

The Dragonar units are really simple and unmistakable designs. D-3 is especially great with its disc-shaped head.

>>123482379
Digital animation can look like cel animation.
But cel animation can never look like digital animation.

On color palette alone cel animation can never achieve the same level and variety digital can reach.

What you ought to complain are the cheap colorists they hire nowadays. They are satisfied with 2 shades designs. But it is cheap and works for them.

>>123487768
>>123487820
>cherrypicking

Most modern anime is just flatface with a gradient applied. At least older anime have proper shading going on.

Also 3D makes me puke even when used for robots and inanimate objects.

Don't forget Berserk.

>>123487589
>Nobody cares about backgrounds anyway
You stupid motherfucker.

>>123487734
I watched NNB for the backgrounds.

>>123488022
It's not about being "cheap", it's about incompetence and laziness.

>>123488064

Then explain why Bleach is popular

>>123487290

>While film itself is fragile, you can always rescan it into new resolutions without it looking like shit.

LOLnope. Film has grains. These are more or less the same as pixels, just scattered around rather than on a grid. Scale it up too far and it looks shit, just like pixels. Grain size is more or less the same as resolution, and you cannot rescan to a high resolution from low-quality film. And digital has much better "resolution" than film.

It is true that film looks better upscaled than digital at the same "resolution", but that's a subjective thing because the grains are scattered. It doesn't contain any more information. In practice digital is better because its resolution is almost always higher than the film's "resolution", so this idea of having film and digital with the same resolution is purely hypothetical since there is no film that good.

>Anything mastered digitally will have to be upscaled by software.

Vectors. No one does animation with raster graphics. Even if you used rasters it would look better, but no one uses rasters.

>>123488058
>At least OVAS have proper shading going on.
You forgot to mention that older anime sometimes looked really nice with images so beautiful they had to show them to you for 30 seconds straight.
It's easy to look nice when there's no animation.

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>>123488058
>At least older anime have proper shading going on.

>>123488160
PERFECT

>>123487979
Yeah really. How anyone could think Dragonar units are overdesigned is fucking beyond me. That Obari Dragonar is detailed but it still sticks to the original source fairly well, with just a little bit of Obari flair.

>>123487764
Fuck off retard

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>>123488058
>At least older anime have proper shading going on.

>>123488022
This.
It's about the colouring not digital vs cel. Going back to cel animation would make studios poorer than they already are because they'd have to put in more work for no extra reward in terms of money.

>>123488058
You're an idiot, 'old anime has proper shading'; you're just cherrypicking as well. Compare old OVAs to old TV and you'll the difference in shading and colour.

>>123488141
>LOLnope. Film has grains. These are more or less the same as pixels
How fucking stupid do you have to be to actually type this?

>>123488058
>Cherrypicking
That's what everyone else does in these threads.

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You have to give credit to Little Witch Academia.

It follows the 12 principles, and no other anime ever does that.

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>>123488058
>At least older anime have proper shading going on.

>>123488058
>excuse people of cherrypicking
>doing the exact same thing
How to be a retard 101.

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No matter how human digital art looks, it's just simply imitating hand drawn art. That's why no matter what you draw, it has no emotional effect on anyone and becomes pointless.

>>123488546
Digital animation is hand drawn, you slack jawed monkey

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>>123488058
3D is getting pretty good

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The reason we have misinformed delusional idiots like OP, is because there are less high budget OVAs being released so people don't realize the differences in budget and the reasons for the difference in quality.

>>123488546
You do know it's still hand drawn right? Do some research you faggot.

>>123488665
>responding
With bait this obvious, you have the choice of either just accepting it as a plain joke or to consider it trolling and ignore it.

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>>123488546
Nearly all modern anime is animated by hand with paper and pencil.

>>123488119
You really like eating cherries, don't you?

>>123488744
>thinking it was bait
People actually think that you know. The OP did too.

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>>123488665
>>123488725
>louseposting this hard

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>>123488058
>delusional shadingfag

>>123488755
Those are storyboards.

>>123488841
Do you not know what a storyboard is, you fucking idiot? Wait, of course you don't.

Those aren't storyboards.

>>123488755
What's with the large paper size? Is it for 21:9 movie format?

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>>123488058
Oh man just look at all this rich and detailed shading

>>123488809
>no emotional effect on anyone
This is where I draw the line. It's not a statement you can make an expect to be taken seriously by me.

>>123488810
Nice bait.
Nobody has any idea what you're on about.

>>123488841
Stop posting right now you fucking retard.

>>123488883
Proof?

>>123488419
what's the 12 principles?

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>>123488841
You fucking reply whore.

There is literally an anime regarding animation last season so ignorant fucks like you can know something about animation. The storyboard is one of the important things they even discussed.

Goddamn it anon.

>>123488888
You expect them to draw on post stamps?
You need a certain size so you can control the pencil better and draw the fine bits too.

>>123488962
Storyboards have detailed descriptions and usually present different scenes.

Notice how the bottom 3 pieces are all showing the same thing? Because they're animation frames

>>123488841
If this fucking dipshit got banned I bet half the posts in this thread would be gone.
>>123488962
>say something completely retarded
>get told you're retarded
>"Proof?"
Fuck off, you goddamn subhuman.

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>>123489006

Something he read about in a darkstalkers blogpost and now he thinks he's an animation expert.

>>123489021
I didn't even think about this. Even so, how the fuck do you not know what a storyboard is?

>>123488841
You know, my Grandfather smoked his whole life. I was about 10 years old when my mother said to him, 'If you ever want to see your grandchildren graduate, you have to stop immediately.'. Tears welled up in his eyes when he realized what exactly was at stake. He gave it up immediately.
Three years later he died of lung cancer. It was really sad and destroyed me. My mother said to me- 'Don't ever smoke. Please don't put your family through what your Grandfather put us through." I agreed.
At 28, I have never touched a cigarette. I must say, I feel a very slight sense of regret for never having done it, because your post gave me cancer anyway.

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Holy shit, this guy is retarded.

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>>123488841
No, storyboards look like this.

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Will we ever see vector anime that can be scaled to infinite size?

>>123489030
Standard animation paper is the smaller ones at the top, they don't usually use paper that wide since it would be a waste of paper and storage space.

>>123489006
A set of guidelines to make animation expressive. They are vital if you want to work in animation. Anime doesn't follow it though.

>>123489138
Leave him be anon. He won't listen.

>>123489143
Yes, but it'll be 17 fps and incompatible with all normal refresh rates.

>>123489138
>seriously replying to bait

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Why don't MUH CEL / MUH OLD / MUH SHADING fags just watch old anime? They obviously haven't watched many of them, or else they would realize how retarded their opinions are.

>>123489173
>They are vital
>Anime doesn't follow it
So they're not vital.

>>123489006
Animation "rules" set down by old Disney animators.

>>123489280
They haven't learned how to look for anime yet. Since plain rec threads are forbidden on /a/, they have no choice but to watch current stuff.

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>>123489173
>They are vital if you want to work in animation. Anime doesn't follow it though.
Give me a fucking break, kid.
>>123489280
It's not flashy enough for them, they only watch OVAs from the mid-90s over and over again.

Cheap anime is never going to be well-shaded/animated. Ever. Period. Doesn't matter if it's digital, cel, or drawn on the backs of the fucking Mona Lisa. And cheap anime is always going to exist. If you think switching to digital somehow makes it impossible to shade things, you have problems.
We see tons of shitty-looking, one-tone anime all the fucking time in modern times because we LIVE in modern times and see all the shit as it happens. You want to feel like cel is inherently better? Go watch a legitimately BAD anime from the 80s and see if it is somehow better-looking than a bad show from today due to being done on cels. There's tons of good shit from the 80s that looks like a dream come true, but just like every era of everything ever those are the exception, not the rule.
People just remember the good stuff because it's good, and no one bothers to remember the bad stuff so it seems like only good things came from back then. It's the same reason people suck the dick of decades of music.

>>123489333
They are vital in western animation and art.

>>123489430
>Give me a fucking break, kid.
How many years did you attend art school?

which should I watch first guys

serial lain
paranoia agent
texhnolyze
or
Haibane Renmei

http://www.poll-maker.com/results284293x69f049CD-11

>>123489501
>They are vital in western animation and art.
Good thing we're talking about western animation.

I didn't go to art school, because I'm not a pretentious faggot who went to school just to have a free pass to talk out of his fucking asshole.

>>123489533
Fuck off.

>>123489533
Please anon, decide for yourself.

>>123489533
Close your eyes and pick one, they're all good.

>>123489446
>It's the same reason people suck the dick of decades of music.

Music is the only medium that has gotten consistently worse with time though. We're still trying and failing to top the musical achievements made centuries ago.

>>123489703
There's too many competition nowadays. And sometimes, there is one on the pool of competition that the majority will like. Even if it is shit.

>>123489703
>Music is the only medium that has gotten consistently worse with time though
Fuck you

>>123489703
You're just straight up wrong. How many shitty songs were made in those times? If you think none, then you really need to think harder. And implying that music can be "topped" is just silly. What, no one knows what chords are anymore? People forgot music theory? Do you honestly not think music that sounds like "classical" music isn't being made today?

>>123488755
>>123489138
I like the way these look.

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Compare DBZ/DBZ Kai to the shiny, soul-less new DBZ movies and tell me which looks better

>>123489703
What achievement? Old music is still there and there are more sub genres than ever since the electronic age came and human was able to create any kind of frequency they desire.

>>123489935
All Dragon Ball is fucking shit, fuck off.

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>this thread

>>123489703
No way man. Hatsune Miku > The Well-Tempered Clavier

>>123489951
>frequency
I think you mean wave-form.
Or timbre.

>>123489951
>sub genres than ever since the electronic age came and human was able to create any kind of frequency they desire.
It's really sad that people don't appreciate this. The general quality of music and audio equipment accessible to kids in their garages is unbelievable compared to just a couple decades ago.

>>123489951
This.

There's even a genre called noise. It's just, you know, noise.

>>123489795
But he's right. Just compare average music back then to today's very best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BffRHsmWBxI

https://youtu.be/dtCxmbFgnrc?t=1m25s

>>123489935
That isn't a new animation, they just did things to the old footage.

>>123490041
This is cherrypicking mate.

You ought to be comparing Lilwayne to older hip hop artists. Not genre to different genre.

>>123490079
I know. In my opinion it looks better than either, it's like a happy medium

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Oh look, this thread again.
Almost every goddamn day.
Pic may be relevant

>>123489951
Not only that, people still make orchestral pieces, which people seem to forget. Not only that, it has had further movements and evolved.

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>>123490124
>This is cherrypicking mate.
Isn't that the point of this thread?

>>123490041
Nice cherry picking dip shit. But go ahead and feel superior by name dropping Bach and Mozart or whatever name you want to drop of your "superior" music. I bet you don't even know works of modern mainstream composers like Glass of Cage. Stay in your stupid bubble you fedora-tipping autist.